What made WIII so famous? Because of modding maybe?

>>376922919
Because it was a good RTS with extreme replayibility because of the community made custom games

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>>376922919
I loved the hero system, personally.

>>376922919
Game like wc3 hasnt been made since

people have literally forgtten how to make RTS see DOW3

>>376922919
I never beat it without cheats

>>376923318
>people have literally forgtten how to make RTS

Ironically, because WC3 invented MOBAs.

>>376922919
>tfw we'll never get Warcraft IIII

>>376923442
Wasn't the first to do it, was the first to popularize it. Even AoE2 had MOBA's in it, but people weren't nerding out about it so much

really solid engine and game mechanics, a
very good map/game editor, and the great online platform gave rise to one of the greatest online gaming communities of the 2000s

also the campaign had a great story and paved the way for WoW

>>376923527
yes, aeon of strife style games existed before wc3, but wc3 was the first to add heroes that gained levels with experience and could buy and use items with gold.

>>376922919
It was the sequel to Warcraft II.

>>376923416
>tfw this
I was only a 14 year old scrub though, to be fair, but still

Should probably go back and complete it legit

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>>376922919
>Good story for an RTS
>Good graphics for the time
>Good cinematics
>Interesting characters
>Well-balanced gameplay
>Strong multiplayer component
>Competitive scene supported by developers
>Easy to use modding suite
>Active modding community to this day

Warcraft III had a hell of a lot going for it. It was an extremely well made game and was full to the brim with personality and interesting characters.

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>that campaign
>great gameplay
>TFT
God tier

it was the peak of the old Blizzard

fuck WoW

>>376922919
every thing was pretty much perfect.

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thanks god for the custom maps

Who /purist/ here?
Over 6000+ matches, never played any of the gayass mods

>>376922919
Dota
There's a reason few care about WCIII and everybody cares about Dota, and Dota 2 is the true successor to WCIII at this point

>tfw Dota 2 will never get a custom game that spawns the creation of WC4

all these people saying the story and characters.

I always thought warcraft 3 was cringworthy bad in terms of story.

I got the game because it was made by blizzard and blizzard went way out of their way to polish their games back in the day with well supported multiplayer.
They made diablo and starcraft which were both the defining games of their respective genres at the time so i figured warcraft 3 would be good too. The multiplayer was good but the single player was lack luster.

>>376924536
Dota 2 custom games have been an even bigger blunder than SC2's, just accept that ASSFAGGOTS players are never going to touch another game genre again and move on

>>376924327
Reason being 'Stracraft syndrome' - at some point the community and metagame evolved to require very high skill not to be cheesed within 5 minutes, and people switched to a much simpler variation where you only had to control one character and lasthit mindlessly for three hours. Dota was pretty much known as a kiddie pool.

>>376924754
Getting ASSFAGGOTS players to even touch a different MAP is a challenge.

>>376922919
Be honest OP, how underage are you?

>>376924825
>metagame evolved to require very high skill not to be cheesed within 5 minutes

Games aren't fun anymore once a dominant set of strategies are discovered. Only competition-driven kiddies want to play pro rock-paper-scissors. Games are about meaningful choices and interesting experiences, not "I IS DA BEST AT CLICKY CLICKY!"

>>376925203
t. casual shitter

>>376925203
>games aren't fun anymore once I start to lose
git gud senpaitachi

Custom maps

>>376925352
>>376925454
it's called real time STRATEGY
not real time clicking
k
get fucked shitlords

>>376925352
>>376925454

These responses are all the proof you need that e-sports is cancer.

>>376924640
More than bad history, the characters either made stupid decisions or are full retard
Look at Grommash for exemple all he did was:
Kill hundreds of humans
Let his people be undercontrol
Had a mission to scout NE and ends up killing a fucking demigod
and so on

and in the ends, after getting killed "saving" Thrall everyone goes "HE DID NUFFIN"

Uther, paladin and hero of the Warcraft II world, now it's a complete moron without UNDERSTAND THINGS EVEN IF HE IS A FUCKING VETERAN.

Jaina literaly sold out her father because "hurr durr orcs are gud"

Medivh literaly says "Hey guys you are gonna die" without sayng who the fuck is him, how he knows and shit. I mean i understand that leader should take their own decisions but realy ?

Why dreadlords were afraid to die ? In the fucking Lore is explained they respawn. Literaly Sargeras spawnkilled them to bring them by his side.

Guldan.
Head of shadow council
Veteran of the second war
Killed fucking Ner'zhul
Powers given by Sargeras
Killed by fucking demons (or naga, since there is a novel who talk about monsters with scales).

Tyrande literaly free a 10k years prisoner because "lul could help"
Illidan literaly take the FIRST chance to betray everyone because MUH POWER AND DEMONS
Malfurion literaly forgive his brother that he hates so much more than anything else because he didn't kill Tyrande

The only reasonable characters are Thrall, Arthas and Maiev.

>>376922919
I miss Eras Zombie Invasion

SC2 has it but there is sometimes a griefer or no one is interesting.

>>376925560
>>376925575
These responses are all the proof you need that /v/ is infested with casuals who are shit at video games.

>>376923689
>wc3 was the first to add heroes that gained levels with experience and could buy and use items with gold
this was every rpg ever

>>376925203
That applies more to SC2 than WC3. SC2 became so obsessed with esports and trying to raise the skill cap that by LotV you were expected to be frenetically multitasking seconds into the match. It drove off all the casuals and eventually anyone that wasn't hardcore into the game. WC3 is just a very slow and plodding RTS, it facilitates micro in combat well but grunts and footmen taking double digit seconds to die gets tiring after a while. It's the opposite of SC2 where 200/200 armies melt each other in 5 seconds

>>376925751
*no one is interested

>>376925785
We aren't salty that you're better than us, dummy. We're trying to explain why nobody wants to play your stupid non-games in the first place. Literally nobody but you cares about being DA BEST. Are you too stupid to understand that?

>>376922919
It was a mediocre game saved by modding. Just like almost every other game from that time period.

Gaming went to shit when mods stopped being a thing.

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Who was in the wrong here?

>>376925682
>Illidan
>betrays everyone
He does nothing of the sort. His lust for power drew him to the quick solution to the Tichondrius problem. Absorbing the skull stopped the corruption of the forest and gave him the strength he needed to defeat the demons causing it.

Did his actions go against the general wishes/culture of the Night Elves? Yes.
Were they actually an act of betrayal? No.

>>376925682
>literaly x6

Consider using new words

>>376923495
>IIII

Thanks anon

>>376925848
WC3 ended up as a better strategy because experience system incentivized you to fight the enemy army. StartCraft has no such incentive, so most games end up as macro tog of wars and endless drops and expand rushes. Shit is fucking boring. Heroes and leveling also meant that the match dynamic changed with time, with some heroes having balance-breaking ults, which put a time limit of sorts on every game

>>376926042
Arthas's dad for not having an Ankh of Reincarnation or an Alter of Kings built. Warcraft lore is retarded.

>>376925898
>nobody wants to play your stupid non-games in the first place
WC3 was a mainstay on WCG for 10 years up till 2013, meaning that it actually outlived Dota 1

>>376925898
t. casual

>>376925898
There's no cure for shit taste anon, arguing with plebs on 4chan isn't really worthwhile.

>>376926423
No, casuals want to dumb down game mechanics. E-sport kiddies don't care about deep mechanics and just want mindless competition. FACT: pro gaming fags have more in common with casuals than real gamers.

>>376926604
Yeah, I guess so. I'm just bored because there's no good games to talk about right now.

>>376926050
>Did his actions go against the general wishes/culture of the Night Elves? Yes.
Were they actually an act of betrayal? No.

Mmmm.

Anyway, you know all he did is because people played with him ?
I mean fucking Arthas, the one who betrayed the fucking humanity, sayd him "yeah pick the skull lol".
Illidan goes around with Kael'tas and Lady Vash.
Kael'tas betrayed human alliance (which was a good choice desu) and Nagas betrayed the Titans allyng with Old Gods.
Now they potrayed it like an hero, in wow, again. But isn't like he is, ally with Sargeras isn't a good choice. Not for you, not for the world.

>>376925682
>Medivh literaly says "Hey guys you are gonna die" without sayng who the fuck is him, how he knows and shit. I mean i understand that leader should take their own decisions but realy ?
Because last time they saw medivh he was a fucking puppet for Sargeras.

>>376926149
literaly memed XD

>>376926787
Nobody knew him, in fact Neither Thrall or Arthas knew who he was. He could just have shown his powers, his visions like he did with thrall and sheet to prove who is he.
And even with that, i would trust the FUCKING ACTUAL GUARDIAN OF THE WORLD instead of someone else, ya know.

>>376925836
are you dumb
older RTS games had aeon of strife style custom maps before wc3
wc3 added the heroes which level up and use itsms to these maps, creating what is now known as the moba genre

How do I git gud as Undead? Do I rush Death Knight? Or should I go Crypt Lord?

>>376926732
Everything Illidan did in Reign of Chaos was for the betterment of the world.

Everything he does in TFT is for the betterment of the world by killing the Lich King.

His methods are often destructive, but his goals are noble.

>>376927050
Undead is the hardest race to play, so if you're inexperienced with the game pick someone else. You absolutely SHOULDN'T pick Crypt Lord as your first hero

>>376927050
Play meta
>Start the game
>Make Altar, house, graveyard, crypt and shop
>make DK
>buy rod from the shop
>make some spiders
>go to creep
>farm and fight as long as you can 'till you reach T3
>make 2 frost-wyrm sites
>end the game

UNLESS you are playng aganist NE and he goes Illidan + Dryads, then you just lost.

>>376926647
t. causal

>>376926720
I'll recommend Original War then. Hardly new, considering that it's from 2001, but it's p. good once you get past awful VA.

>>376922919
>What made WIII so famous?

WC2

>>376927352
>>farm and fight as long as you can 'till you reach T3
>>make 2 frost-wyrm sites
>>end the game
lolno

>>376927391
Played it. It was pretty good.

It was a more casual version of Starcraft and if you were even shit at playing the actual game, you could just play DOTA or some shitty TD

>>376923689
warlords battlecry had heroes

>every RTS thread ever
>casulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasulcasul
your clickfest is dead, get over it you fucking spergs

>>376927085
everything arthas did during the scourge of lordaeron campaign was right, too. he did literally nothing wrong before the ending cinematic.
stratholme was absolutely necessary.

>>376926204
IIII was used along with IV in Roman times and looks better anyway

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>>376927352
>make 2 frost-wyrm sites

>>376922919

Robust mod and custom map scene, excellent battle.net service, and WC3 represents the last time Blizzard really went out of their way to innovate.

>>376923442
Well, DOTA came from one question no one thought to ask: I suck at strategy games, how can I make a game that looks like a strategy game but has none of the skill and depth involved?

So they stripped resource management out- 3 is too complicated so you only have one and I do mean 'resource' in the mildest of senses- army management, macro, micro, and base building and tried to compensate for all of that by having items that can build into other items, and by drowning you in hero choices.

The only difference between DOTA and 100 other hero arena games that spawned from the WC3 custom map scene is that DOTA had more effort put into it and continuous updates over the life of WC3. But since solo is spooky they make you play on 5 man teams, implicitly suggesting that solo pugging is the preferred game mode of choice, which of course leads to the problem where you get the ass sniffing DOTA community.

>>376923171
Then you need to die. This feature not only ended WC but killed the entire fantasy RTS genre. Fuck you

>>376926249
>WC3 ended up as a better strategy because experience system incentivized you to fight the enemy army.
Yeah mate that's bullshit.
The RPG elements only clogged down the strategy of the game.
AN RTS game shouldn't be about people grinding and occasionally disturbing each other.
This is why BW is still played today.

>Fantastic story, voice acting, cinematics
>both the original and Frozen Throne campaigns were awesome, unique maps, quests, etc
>polished old school RTS gameplay mixed with new things that worked well (levelling heroes, items, etc., night-day cycle, mobs)
>extreme modability with the built in level editor, there were tons of fun maps made, I even played a Final Fantasy "mod" and it was surprisingly well done
>dota

>>376923495
>IIII

>>376928228
you can play starcraft 2 then

>>376928171
>I suck at strategy games, how can I make a game that looks like a strategy game but has none of the skill and depth involved?

The natural consequence of making games be about competition instead of depth and innovation.

>>376927473
Shit i forgot to say to make the lich and dark ranger too.
Well, how would you proceed ?

>>376927085
>His methods are often destructive, but his goals are noble.

WRONG.

Arthas has destructive methods with a noble end.
What Illidan has is lust of power and lies to his people "Lul i swear i did for the better end", it's pretty much seems like watching Wrestling.
A Guy start as bad character and then turns good if people like him, like Eddie Guerrero.

>>376926285
Gameplay and story segregation.

>>376927352
>Not just creeping with skellies
>Not going fiends+statues+Destroyers with MAYBE a frost wyrm or two

Jesus fuck you're shit. Do you only play vs Easy AI?

>>376923495
Thank god for that

>>376922919
It's funny, slot of people are still playing it. I just got into WC3 multiplayer a couple of weeks ago after playing the campaign. I didn't expect to meet anyone, or just get matched against autists that have been playing the game for years. I got a multiplayer game in less than 20 seconds, and I even met a guy at my skill level(total shitter). That was pretty damn surprising and impressive!

>>376928453
WC3 wasn't made for competition, competition spawned around it because people liked playing against each other.
Something that you're too autistic to comprehend.

>>376923698 Only possible answer.
/thread

>>376928274
SC never had orgasmic asspulls like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH9NCZkEujs&t=20m25s

>>376924327
>There's a reason few care about WCIII and everybody cares about Dota
Lots of people play matchmaking to this day. Try using the quickplay function and you will find a game in less than a minute.

>>376928453
competition does enhance the "depth" m8. in fact depth and innovation can exist with competitiveness. The lack thereof is because they want a big competitive SCENE

>>376928619
>competition spawned around it because people liked playing against each other

And then the competition became the focus...

>>376925682
>>Illidian literaly take the FIRST chance to betray everyone because MUH POWER AND DEMONS

I never understood this. Who did he betray? He stopped the forests corruption, gained bad ass powers, and killed a powerful demon. He then uses his demonic powers to hunt demons and undead. If anything he was kind of sacrificing himself for the greater good. Tbh he wasn't really sacrificing anything anyway, but NE are stupid nature loving hippies.

>>376928282
>listing dota as a good thing

Never before have I seen so many autistic elitist twelve year olds and retarded Russians. The map might be decent but the "community" was absolutely terrible.

EotA: Twilight was a better ASSFAGGOTS map anyway, it was basically Heroes of the Storm 10 years ago. Different sub-maps, buying mercs, map objectives...

>>376923495
Stay in school, anon

>>376928718
No, of course competition can coexist with depth and innovation. Nobody is arguing that it can't. But for games to be good, they need to be based on creating interesting choices through innovative mechanics, not formulaic competition. It's not a coincidence that e-sports murders genres.

>>376928721
No it didn't you dumb fuck.
People playing melee were always the minority, most people played custom games while the tourneyfags played their normal games.

>>376928686
For every year since 2003 you can find a video like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDMSD_XnZFA
Starcraft is the superior spectator game, items, grinding and 1000+ hp units are awful to watch.

>>376928913
I'm not criticizing WC3 in particular. We're talking about what happened to RTS. Control your involuntary sperg fits.

>>376928913
This is what casuals actually believe

>>376929069
What happened to RTS was that the casual fanbase left for other genres, and only the people competing stayed with them.
You deluded retards are actually blaming the people that kept playing these games for their death, instead of the ones that left them for LoL derivatives, it makes no sense.

>b-but the casual fanbase left because they all became about competition
Absolutely fucking bullshit, games with no competitive scene and with plenty of QoL improvements were flopping hard left and right before publishers abandoned ship.

>>376929047
Creeping added more depth to the early game. You could be focusing on economy, creeping, or harassing. Item drops added excitement if someone got a really good item, and item/creep stealing was a thing. 1000+ HP units were what, 2 or 3 in the entire game, apart from hero units?

>>376927340
>You absolutely SHOULDN'T pick Crypt Lord as your first hero
Why?I thought he was the easiest and most usefull out of undead heroes.

>>376929335
>Absolutely fucking bullshit, games with no competitive scene and with plenty of QoL improvements were flopping hard left and right
such as?

>people thinking Dota killed RTS games
You're an idiot if you think this, the only thing dota and RTS games have in common is their perspective. It's like saying RPGs and shooters are the same game if they're both in first person or third person.

RTS games died on their own.

t. I tried DotA for an hour and sucked at it the thread.

>>376929335
>What happened to RTS was that the casual fanbase left for other genres

Fuck, that's exactly like the Democratic party blaming voters for not electing them. What a laugh.

>You deluded retards are actually blaming the people that kept playing these games

We're blaming competitiveness, which some people find compelling. There's appropriate venues for competition, but games are primarily about interesting experiences, not competition.

Once you make games primarily about competition and don't bother with innovation or new experiences, nobody but competition junkies want to play them. That's a fact.

>>376928807
>hots
>good
/v/edditors are the worst

>>376925848
>WC3 is just a very slow and plodding RTS,
That's why I never liked it. Fuck padded sumo.

>>376929425
>Creeping added more depth to the early game.
The early game in WC3 was a drag.
People fighting mobs and occasionally harassing each other, harass that had no excitement on it because every unit took 10 seconds to kill and only a massive fuck up could make a difference.
> Item drops added excitement if someone got a really good item, and item/creep stealing was a thing.
If I wanted to see people getting sick drops and stealing mobs from each other I'd play an MMO.
>1000+ HP units were what, 2 or 3 in the entire game, apart from hero units?
>being this autistic
You know what I meant, the game is paced like an RPG.

>>376929615
Crypt Lord is one of the worst heroes in the game. His stats and abilities are shit, his ult is useless. As a rule of thumb, if the hero has unit-summoning abilities, avoid using it - you'll just be giving your opponent free XP. There are few exceptions to it, like Farseer (his wolves can get invisible and provide scout) or Dark Ranger (you can creep roll really fast with her skelly arrows)

>>376929642
You could pick any game from this list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_real-time_strategy_video_games
from the 00s and you'd have a 99% chance of picking up a flop.

>>376926249

WC3 was worse IMO because there was too much focus on the heroes and not losing units as opposed to dealing as much damage as possible while minimizing losses in BW. In BW there is constant back and forth of trading econ for army, attacking an expo versus defending one. Mineral heavy or gas heavy army, etc. WC3 is about creeping with heroes, pray for RNG item drops, and have two full on engagements before the game ends.

>>376929047
>Superior spectator game
>Now lets watch the players build workers for 5 minutes.


I'll agree that WC3 should have had squishier units, but that's about it.


>>376928807
>EOTA

Don't remind me.

>>376929839
>nobody but competition junkies want to play them
false because many people who play dota or lol while not being remotely competitive because they simply are easier to pick up, play, learn and talk about but above all they are cheap and easily available. e-sport is just the way those games earn more shekels and legitimacy by making them a social event, like football.

>>376929972
How was WC3 a 'drag' when the average game was shorter than an average SC game? As I pointed before, experience system made 'macrowars' meaningless, there was no reason to shit the entire map with 20 bases to spam 20000000000+ units per second from 50 barracks, games could be ended much quicker because a high level hero alone was capable of wiping half the enemy army.

>>376929425

Creeping added zero depth to the game. It was just a necessary thing to do because hero leveling matters much more than anything else.

>>376928507
>spiders
>aganist endgame units

Yeah just borrow youself with those spiders.

>>376928768
>I mean, Illidan lust of power drove him to create another sunwell for himself. What ise gonna do with a Demonic artifact, alliance with a Dark Titan and anything power-related ? haha

Don't take the legion Lore in the discussion, he is the good guy NOW that Blizzard decided to use the Illidan card because they are losing all the fucking subscribers.
But his action was for the lust of power, not because he is good.
Killing the Lich King would have been the ruin of the world, because he was the only true stand aganist demonic forces.
I mean Lich King wouldn't have been good, but was the only power to confront a neverending legion of demons.

>>376930363
BW's economic system lead to a much more exciting mid-game and late-game when compared to the simplistic 10-workers per base economy that WC3 had.
Even if the early game can seem devoid of action, every matchup had plenty of aggressive builds so there was always the possibility of early attacks.

>>376930480
>How was WC3 a 'drag' when the average game was shorter than an average SC game?
Because for the most part, a SC game is seeing people harassing each other, fighting each other in small skirmishes around the map and interacting with each other, it had actual armies moving around, poking each other instead of seeing 5 guys+hero vs 5 guys+hero for half the game.

>>376930535
>Creeping added zero depth to the game.
You probably know a heck lot more about Starcraft than I do, but at least try not to show your ignorance about Wc3 that hard. You sound like a korean who tried Wc3 for 5 minutes, realised than you can't zerg rush, and quit the game forever

>>376930784
>You sound like a korean who tried Wc3 for 5 minutes, realised than you can't zerg rush
Yeah, he should've sticked around for 10 more minutes to discover he can just tower rush.

>>376930304
right. and when I point out the many exceptions, including the very subject of this thread incidentally, you just go 'lol 99%'. to which I say that you can say the same about before the 00s too. and literally every other genre. so basically you can't give examples of implicitly rts games with "QoL improvements", because that's bullshit. the good ones still sold.

what actually happened was they just stopped making good RTS games for whatevre reason. don't ask me why though, considering it should've been basically impossible to fuck-up looking at how many good ones were churned out mass-proudction style in its golden age. not like they were all amazing either, just pretty good, which is all you really need.

>>376930867
> you can't give examples of implicitly rts games
> you can't give examples of implicitly GOOD rts games
hups, missed a word there for some reason

>>376930734
>Because for the most part, a SC game is seeing people harassing each other
Exactly, the macro wars never excited me. Pick any random SC match, and I'll guarantee that 90% of encounters would be drops to kill defenseless workers. Like, good job I guess, but where's the fun in that?

>>376929910
>It doesn't have an autistic 20 minute laning phase so it's bad

DotAbabs

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109KB, 406x364px

>>376922919
>What made WIII so famous?
WC III and C&C Generals were peak RTS. The moba was a happy accident at the time.

Then sixth gen consoles happened and PC gaming went to shit in general.

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26KB, 172x194px

>Played the WCIII campaign, Diablo II/III, and WoW for a long period of my life
>Never bothered to get good at SC
Any tips? I always feel like I am starting so slow because I am waiting for resources. Should I just build an army of workers at the start or only run with a few? Is it only really necessary to have one squad going off to any given place or is it better to make swarms with many different squads? Should I try fighting people before I upgrade units or just turtle defense and steal resources until I am fully upgraded? I was never very keen on RTS but I do wanna get better.

>>376930840
Tower rushes in Warcraft can amount to works of art
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX1gtecFhI8

>>376930697
That, and according to WoTLK, killing the Lich King without an available heir to the crown would cause the undead to go berserk, and rampage across the land unchecked instead of sticking to their own areas until told otherwise.

>>376930439
>many people who play dota or lol while not being remotely competitive because they simply are easier to pick up, play, learn and talk about but above all they are cheap and easily available.

Yes, competition-focus and casualness actually go hand-in-hand. MOBAs are amateur versions of hardcore competitive games, but ALL of them are casual from the standpoint of innovative experiences, deep mechanics, and real gaming.

>>376928807

>Tfw all these other AoS lost to history

>RoW
>EotA
>DoE
>AotZ
>Age of Myths
>Land of legends

Feelsbadman

>>376930784

The problem with WC3 is that there is no alternative to creeping. Harassment yields very little return with the exception of certain maps.

>>376931151
>Any tips?

Why? Shits dead.

>>376931401
For fun. Thats it.

>>376931354
>it's not real gaming because i dont like it

>>376931367
>someone remembers Land of Legends
I didn't play Dota just because I was bitter Land of Legends died and Dota became popular.

>>376931473
google [game_race_build order].
then practice them online or with bots.

>>376922919
The game had a lot of shit going for it. Lots of custom maps, a good campaign, and a good standard multiplayer, all of which contributed to its longevity. You can be anywhere on the spectrum of someone who likes it for the singleplayer campaign or someone who likes the competitive aspects of WC3 or someone who likes the custom maps or someone who only likes playing DotA and still find lots of enjoyment in this game.

In a sense, it actually appealed to a wider audience without compromising much.

>>376931367
What about Zedena Wars?

>>376931103
does hots even have phases?

I'm like silver-trash tier in most other mobas. tried hots a while after it came out, around when they added leagues or whatever it was rather than just capping you at a level, and I made it to whatever the top league was by literally just mindlessly smashing my face into the enemy base as much as possible. when leoric came out I had like 70-80% winrate over 100+ games with him by just doing that; never leaving lane unless the teamfight was happening right next to me and smashing whichever lane wasn't completely smashed yet. that was without abathor abuse too.

not saying im mr amazing here - I'm super shit - but that the game has probably the lowest skillcap out of any non-pure RNG "competitive" game I've ever played. its appeal seems basically to be the same as what you get out of grinding mobs in an MMO. just shut your brain off and push random buttons while listening to a podcast or something. dunno why people pretend it's anything else.

>>376929786
I have 3k hours of dota, 4k mmr and i preffer RTS even if i just suck dicks at it.

>>376931347
Yeah forgot the heir thing.

>>376931496
No, what I'm saying is that you're enjoying competition, not games. Because you don't understand the difference, people like you push gaming away from what's actually interesting and towards mindless sport.

Even now, all you care about is winning this argument instead of seeing the world from a different viewpoint. That's junkie behavior if I've ever seen it.

>Recently tried to play War3
>Game tries to update but it bugs out and can't apply it
>Reinstall and still doesn't work
>Haven't been able to play since

T-thanks Blizzard

>>376927961
Okay, you don't have to make 2. Depends on the game. If i'm already in a winning situation i do 2 to rush.

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>It's another "RTSfag cries about their dead genre" episode

>>376931879
They changed it a good amount over time. Phases vary by map and team comp honestly. Some teams and maps are just mindlessly charging while others need to be defensive until they get certain talents, such as their heroic abilities. In earlier phases you also have to worry about map control while keeping someone in each lane to soak

>>376922919
when are those retards over at blizz gonna remaster WC3 so you can play it on widescreen without everything being stretched and retarded?

>>376932046
Try running it as admin. Worked for me.

>>376928228
Blizzard may have added heroes to multiplayer but they're not the mongoloids who decided to cut out every other aspect of the game and make a game just about heroes, blame the casual retards who played that shit.

>>376931395
>alternative to creeping
Fast expand
Rush T3
Tower rush
Neutral rush
Creepjack
If you're playing HU, your heroes dont really need levels

>>376932046
Digital?
I bought a physical new copy a few months ago and had no problems other than the cinematic cut scenes not playing.

>>376932159
I did, didn't help.
>>376932231
Yeah digital.
They did some weird new way to update the game through some new program

>>376928228
How does it feel to be wrong

>>376931968
>No, what I'm saying is that you're enjoying competition, not games.
You're just making shit up to justify your retarded argument.
No, people that played WC3 or Starcraft or any competitive game didn't play it just for the competition, they liked the game, they liked playing the game against other people, and as a result of that they started competing.
It's always the same, very few people play a game they don't like just for the competition, most of the pros that switched to SC2 from WC3/BW ended up retiring eventually, despite some of them actually winning more money than in their previous game, when there's no passion they can force themselves for money, but only for so long.

>>376932154
>wanting to ruin WC3's perfect aesthetic with a shitty remaster
'no'

>>376932381
And yet nobody wants your favorite genre anymore. Keep wondering why while blaming "casuals".

>>376925551
wow, this

>>376924754
>just accept that ASSFAGGOTS players are never going to touch another game genre again and move on
youre an idiot. dota customs are dead because of valve

>>376931968
Not him, but there's nothing inherently wrong with enjoying competition.
Motivation and drive to compete against other people is healthy unless you're a betacuck.

>>376922919
Thanks for reminding me that I wanted to create a map with a fortress similar to Maghteridon's from the campaign.

>>376932548
And now you resort to literally "w-well if they're so good why are they all dead?".
You're pathetic.

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>>376923495
>IIII
You did that on purpose. You wanted to die today.

>>376931537

Game was so fun

Now Wc3 is overtaken by bots that always host the same game and the playerbase is gone

At least there's make me host dot com

>>376932512
you one of those guys who will unironically argue that blizz intended for the game to look stretched out?

>>376931103
>autistic 20 minute laning phase so it's bad
look, a moron talking about things he knows nothing about. retarded hotshitter

>>376928862
But IIII is as correct as IV.

>ywn play some shoddily made Final Fantasy RPG again, created by some BR who can barely speak English
>ywn play all those stupid angel arenas etc. again that had completely broken and OP heroes with zero balance

Man, some of the tower defenses this game spawned were fun as fuck too.

>>376928453
depth lends itself to competition.

>>376932683
Well, I'm done trying to give you dumbshits advice about how to revive RTSdeadgenre. You're too stupid to enjoy good games, honestly. So fuck off to fantasy football I guess.

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Glad you could bake it, Uther.

Watch your tone with me, boy. You may be the waiter, but I'm still your superior as a chef.

As if I could forgetti. Listen, Uther, there's something about the plaguette you should knead. Oh no... It's too late. These peopleroni have all been infectedanana. They may look al dente now, but its a matter of thyme before they turn into the unedible.

What?!

This entire citrella must be peeled.

How can you even cook that? There's got to be some other whey.

Damn it, Umami. As your future chef, I order you to broil this city!

You are not my chef yet, boyardee. Nor would I obey that command if you were!

Then I must consider this an act of seasoning.

Seasoning? Have you sauced your mince, Arthas?!

Have I? Lord Umami, by my right of succession and the sovereignty of my crown of roast pork, I hereby rehydrate you from your commandard and suspenderoni your pepperoni from service.

Arthas, you just can't...

*Ding*
It's done! Those of you who have the will to taste this flan, follow me. The rest of you? Get out of my kitchen.

You've just tossed a terrible salad, Arthas.

Jaina?

I'm sorry, Arthas. I can't watch you cook this.

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>>376932772
Widescreen support is one thing but a whole remaster would look like shit because Blizzard is full of hacks now. They added HD WC3 models to SC2 and they're extremely hit and miss.

>>376932918
Sure, and that's fine. Depth and competition aren't either/or. But when a genre becomes formulaic and competition-centered, it's already dead. It's not hard to understand.

>>376932154
I'd only be alright with a remaster if it got a physical release.
>>376932231
I refuse to pay for digital.

Fantastic 3D graphics and style.

>>376932857
It took me many years to realize that one of my favorite W3 custom maps was not about a fictional place called Massacar, but it was rather just that the author did not know how to spell 'massacre'

>>376933067
so everybody got a case of FUCKHUGE chest?

>>376933247
The Farseer is also a manlet.

>>376931401
back2warcraft on YT show some great WC3 games, there's a scene - on life support but it's there.

>>376933039
Oh boy here we go

>>376932548
It's because RTS inherently has levels of depth not attainable by its dumbed down cousin - MOBAs.

The tastes of the market gravitate towards easy shit with not many mechanics to take note of, there's nothing you could do to RTS to make it as popular as LoL.

>>376933067
What is this curved shit sword on BM?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBd671LvlZk

>>376933196
it was especially fun before people started protecting their maps. so any random asshole could just add whatever retarded shit they wanted to your map and advertise it as a new version, then more people would do the same, and so on. I remember doing some of that to some maps, getting distracted, only to return to them much later to see my retarded shit still present in contemporary iterations of it. horrible spelling errors and all.

but then everyone started protecting their maps.

>>376925682
>Medivh literaly says "Hey guys you are gonna die" without sayng who the fuck is him, how he knows and shit.

He was considered literally the greatest traitor in the history of humanity.

>Killed fucking Ner'zhul

No he didn't.

>>376933039
I love it but I still don't understand why people hooked onto that scene to begin with

>>376933536
>It's because RTS inherently has levels of depth
laughingwhores.jpg

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>>376933067
Heroes of the Storm models look excellent. What you posted is really old.

>>376933760
Heroes of the Storm is probably made by different people.

>>376925898
>Literally nobody but you cares about being DA BEST.
The whole point of doing anything with any level of competition is to be the best.

>>376933536
>It's because RTS inherently has levels of depth not attainable

I mean, that's possible. Newer real-time tactics games hint at that depth. But it remains potential depth and not actual games as long as RTS stays focused on meta, tropes, and fucking build orders.

>>376933068
So you admit you're wrong then.

Going by your original statement you prefer that games have depth and are innovative. Guess what? If there's a high skill ceiling to games, and the innovation draws lots of players and keeps them hooked, then naturally there will be a large base of people that will want to compete against others.

The developers will then do things to enhance/maintain the depth and innovation that the players liked in the first place.

Unfortunately, going by your logic, the game will too focused on 'competition' and those stupid devs lost their way.

>>376933924
>>>/sp/

>>376925898
>being DA BEST
Hasn't Pokemon taught you anything?
Trying to be the best is LITERALLY videogame canon.

>>376934005
>The developers will then do things to enhance/maintain the depth and innovation that the players liked in the first place.

Reality contradicts your theory.

Also, boiling games down to a linear skill level is retarded. This idea explains exactly why your genre is currently one-dimensional.

>>376930697
>don't take WoW lore into this
>bring up Wrath lore that everyone thought was bullshit when it happened

>>376934247
That's a fair point.

>>376933963
How are build orders not form of depth? Any game with a skill ceiling that gives players branching paths to take in a single match will necessarily give rise to 'build orders' and a meta - that is if the game is multiplayer.

Leave it to /v/ to drop buzzwords randomly.

>>376934402
It's an example of what substitutes for depth when competition replaces innovation.

>want to replay wc3
>watch some guy play ladder matches from a year ago
>try to learn and apply what I saw against a normal bot
>feel like I'm doin good
>got muh archmage to lvl 3, got footmen rifleman priests and knights shortly
>orc bot with lvl6 blade master and lvl 4 chieftain rape my army.

Lost like 30 times. Then I picked orc instead.

>Do 99% the same thing with orc as I did with humans
>build blade master and 3 grunts.
>clear out all green and one yellow creep camp with just those 4 units
>suddenly my blade master is level 6
>completly shrek the boss with a blade master, far seer, a fee grunts, raiders and catapults

Didn't even feel like I did anything different. The blade masters crit is so good it won the match for me I guess. I did my best with humans but the bot always got me

>>376934053
Why do something competitive if you aren't aiming to win?

If you claim rts games aren't about a)good campaign stories, b)comfy skirmishes with long empire building ,c)fucking around with cheats and d)making custom worlds in the editor, you're lying.

No one cares for the competitive scene. Or at least not enough people.

>>376934637
This is why we should never have made video games popular enough for bros to get into them.

>>376934660
>No one cares for the competitive scene. Or at least not enough people.
It created a genre worth billions

>>376934660
Muh competitive is the only thing keeping the genre on life support.

>>376934767
It's natural human instinct. Nobody WANTS to lose, if you're given the chance between winning and losing, a person is going to pick winning 9/10 times, and the 1 time is if they can get a tie to avoid losing

>>376933536
>dumbed down cousin - MOBAs.
rtshitters are pathetic

Can someone give me a magnet for a WC3 + all expansion torrent? I've been out of the piratefag loop for a long ass time and it seems that there are very few people left on TPB who can be trusted.

>>376934491
you really need to define depth here because by mine if RTS doesn't have depth then no other game does either

>>376934660
Is anyone saying it isn't? I mean you can still have a competitive game and still have all of those involved.

>>376934990
>you really need to define depth here

3 dimensional chess.

>>376934981
>Not just buying it

>>376934923
hes not wrong. THe only mechanically complicated thing in mobas is making sure you get the last hit in on a mob. The whole game is about match ups and not about apm. Mobas have a very low skill floor

>>376935107
$20 seems a bit overpriced but I guess you have a point.

>>376934981
It's like 10 bucks on blizz's site

>>376935249
Yes, like why pay 20$ for a great videogame. They should make them free, like mobile games.

>>376935219
>The whole game is about match ups
wrong
>not about apm
>apm is the only thing that indicates skill
retard
>Mobas have a very low skill floor
>the genre that people most complain about being hard to get into, the genre which requires hundreds of hours to just learn the basics and thousands to get even decent at the game has a low skill floor
retard

>>376935219
there's a lot more meta concepts in mobas too, such as positioning
positioning is important in RTS, too, but being slightly out of place won't completely kill your army

>>376935369
a 15 year old video game that I'm going to play through once...

>>376923495
IIII = IV?

>>376925682
>Why dreadlords were afraid to die ? In the fucking Lore is explained they respawn
granted, that was introduced in WoW with strathlome. which trivalized
>arthas taking frostmourne
>illidan taking the skull of guldan
>varimathiras siding with slyvanas
>varimathiras killing that other dreadlord

Blizz mentioned about doing a balance patch for WC3, hope that they reduce the price in the process.

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>>376934981
>>376935107
>>376935369
DO NOT give neo-blizz your money. They are cancer. Piratebay is safe, just read the comments and only pick ones that have a lot of seeders.

>>376935467
>a 15 year old video game
So what, does it smell? Then don't play it.
> I'm going to play through once
You buy things to be able to use them, not because you are going to use them 100+ times. Stop making excuses to be a jew and then wonder why everything is p2w

>>376935392
you don't need hundreds of hours to learn the basics. that takes like an hour or two. you need them to learn every single item, every single hero, and every single matchup between those heroes.

What a shitty thread
So much underage AIDS man

>>376935630
Comments and seeders dont seem like a reliable way to test legitimacy. For instance the top seeded WC3 torrent has a virus in it. And has a lot of positive comments which I can only assume are phony accounts.

>>376933039

My favorite variation:

Uther: Glad I could make it, Arthas

Arthas: I watch my tone with you, old man. I may be the prince, but you're still my superior as a paladin.

Uther: As if you could forget. Yes Arthas, there's something about the plague I should know. ...Oh no, it's already begun. These people may look fine now, but it's only a matter of time before they turn into the Undead!

Arthas: What?!

Uther: This entire city must be purged.

Arthas: How can I even consider that? There's got to be some other way.

Uther: Damn it, Arthas! As my future king, order me to purge this city!

Arthas: I am not your king yet, old man. Nor should you obey that command even if I were.

Uther: Then you must consider this an act of treason.

Arthas: Treason?! Have I lost my mind, Uther?

Uther: Have you? Prince Arthas, by right of succession and the sovereignty of your crown, you must hereby relieve me of my command, and suspend my paladins from service.

Jaina: Uther! He can't just--

Uther: It's done! Those of you who have the will to save this land, follow him. The rest of you... get out of his sight.

Arthas: I've just crossed a terrible threshold, Uther.

Jaina: ...Arthas?

Arthas: I'm sorry, Jaina. You can't watch me do this.

>>376933714

It's pretty iconic in the WC lore that and it extended to WoW when players had to see the same scene over again in Culling of Strat 5-man dungeon in WotLK expansion.

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>>376923495
>IIII

>>376935392
Im just saying it was piss easy to get into a moba and harder to get into a fighting game or arena shooter. Your game is a joke. Well im off to play some 3rd strike, Ill appreciate any yous while im gone.

>>376934491
Do you realize the utter retardation you're arguing here?
Build orders are literally an order to build thing.
RTS games are based on you building things and making units, every single game you do you follow an order to them.
How in the name of fuck would you make a RTS game with no "build orders"? From the very moment you have economy in your game people will figure the quickest way to get to a certain unit/tech/etc...
It's like complaining about chess players memorizing and studying a set of opertures for their games.

>>376935783
yeah, those are the basics.
> every single matchup between those heroes.
lol no

>>376935796
It probably doesn't actually have a virus. False detections are common with crack .exes, cracked games or installers.

>>376935921
>Your game is a joke
what's your mmr? surely you aren't talking about shit you have no clue about?

>>376935454
>being slightly out of place won't completely kill your army
positioning is just as important in rts as it is in mobas, except you have to do it with tens or dozens of units at a time instead of one or two, never mind the base building aspect where positioning is the most important thing. bad positioning can easily lose you entire games, by getting your hero trapped in wc3, or getting your marines blown up by banelins in sc, or getting your infantry smushed by tanks in c&c, or any other similar position in any other rts

>>376936006
>How in the name of fuck would you make a RTS game with no "build orders"?
Build orders will never go away in RTS but in modern Starcraft-eqsue RTS it's way too important because everything is built around rushing and micro instead of long-term strategy.

>>376935454
>but being slightly out of place won't completely kill your army
But it does.
Every small advantage that you get thanks to positioning will snowball.
In the end, getting a slightly better concave than your enemy can mean the difference between winning easily or losing.

>>376924147
Same. Around 2008 they had some REALLY fun mods, but they all quit for some reason til 2009

Does anyone still play WC3?

>>376936006
>make fun of build order shit
>OH SO WE SHOULD BUILD NOTHING IN RTS RIGHT?

binary thinking is as sure sign of low intelligence

>>376936526
You can still find games but 90% of it is DotA hosted by bots.

>>376936372
Starcraft is not about rushing or micro.
The economy is by far the most important thing in Starcraft.

>>376935249
If you have the old discs lying around you can register your CD key with your battle.net account so you can always re-download it.

>>376936571
And greentexting without saying anything of substance is a sign of not knowing what the fuck you're talking about.

>>376936526
Only at lan parties now.

>>376936679
>Starcraft is not about rushing or micro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdSKD3LRHV8

>>376936043
>yeah, those are the basics.
the basics are the mechanics of the game. the rest is just studying.

>lol no
lol yea

>>376936679
didn't incontrol (?) make it to master doing nothing but focus on economy while making just queens every game?

>>376936894
You can't seriously think that a Youtube video is an argument by itself, right?
Economy and macromanagement is the single most important thing in Starcraft, you won't find anyone that plays it at a decent level that will tell you otherwise.

>>376936923
learning the matchups of every hero is not the basics you fucking retard. that's something only pros tend to grasp

>>376927050
Graveyard, Crypt, ziggu first. Tier2 immediately. Alter asap after. pump necros and 2-3 wagons + 1 statue for mana. creep near camps or chill in base until all upgrades are done, then go to him and bash his base with wagons, while skelletons are the blockers. Also Lich can get unlimited mana from dark ritual skellies. Zero micro needed, I won against level 35 players this way.

>>376936804
Pointing out the absurdity of your argument was the substance of the post.

>>376936164
Dude just keep playing your low iq, low strategy, no skill game thats barely 1/10th of what a real rts is :) Keep making sure you are getting the last hit while I get a second base and a bigger army.

>>376937118
>Economy and macromanagement is the single most important thing in Starcraft
That's only a small part of the overall meta.

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>>376923495

>IIII

Purge time, nigga.

>>376937146
yes, that is exactly what I'm saying

>>376937265
concession accepted. enjoy your dead game

>>376937276
It has jack to do with meta.
The most distinguishing factors between pros and amateurs are their mechanics, and they are 90% macro.
This post is old as fuck but still holds true:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/266019-do-you-macro-like-a-pro

>>376930206
Or Archmage, one of the best human heroes, right next to Mountain King.

>>376937276
Yeah, because there's no point talking about it since everybody agrees.

>>376937118
>Economy and macromanagement is the single most important thing in Starcraft
clicking like a retard is the single most important thing in Starcraft

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>>376922919
Fuck, you just convinced me to install WC3 on my new PC. Resolution will probably be awful but FUCK IT.

>>376922919
War2 was dogshit in comparison.

The base gamemode of melee/competitive was pretty fun.

There were an ABSOLUTE FUCKTON of custom game maps and so many of them were reasonably fun.

Heroes were very high impact and fun to use.

The gameplay was easy, since your units die much slower than in starcraft and you need fewer of them.

The singleplayer was fantastic storytelling, with in-engine cutscenes and persistent Hero development.

War3 is one of the best RTS games ever made.
Who else is ready for W4?

>>376937547
"clicking like a retard" is actually managing their economy.

Custom maps. The actual RTS portion is garbage where you just farm heroes on creeps until you can solo the other players army.

>>376937594
The most recent patch added modern OS support, widescreen, and borderless window.

>>376923689
The name "Aeon of Strife" even comes from Starcraft lore

>>376937727
>t. only played vs easy bots

Watch Grubby (only during weekends), HazyFoggy, or Lawliet on Twitch.

>>376937727
The amount of ignorance people here display casually is just fucking astounding. Have you really no shame?

>>376932339
What happens when it bugs out?

>>376922919
WC3 (including TFT) have by far the best designed and written campaigns in the genre. Simply untouchable.

>>376937594
How demanding is this game on hardware? Will it run on a toaster?

>>376938782
yes

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I'd suck Blizzard's dick so hard for a remastered WC3.

>>376928171
>Well, DOTA came from one question no one thought to ask: I suck at strategy games, how can I make a game that looks like a strategy game but has none of the skill and depth involved?

DOTA is not a strategy game. They are not even closely related. It is not a 'casual strategy game for casual normie casuals'

You are fucking pathetic. Stop drinking the /v/ koolaid and use your brain for a second, faggot.

>>376922919
Warcraft 3 was shit C&C > Warcraft

>>376937371
>>376935893
>>376935478
>>376932693
>>376928310
>>376926204
both IIII and IV are correct by the way.

>>376922919
Custom games

lets face it, if the devs didnt add it but players wanted it, players made it, players made their own content which was really good and always everchaging, so much so the players even made an entire genre on their own.

>>376939654
fuck you

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>>376923495

>>376939663
The best example would be the Mario Kart map the devs made

>>376939725
Likewise, number four on the stick was the I-notch that could be felt just before the cut of the Λ (V), so it could be written as either IIII or IΛ (IV). Thus the system was neither additive nor subtractive in its conception, but ordinal. When the tallies were transferred to writing, the marks were easily identified with the existing Roman letters I, V and X.

>>376939138
They'd find a way to mess it up somehow.

>>376931367
forgot tides of blood