Who's better?

>>376897056
PAL

Does PAL actually see more of the image or is that just stretched? I cant tell. Either way fuck 50hz so NTSC automatically wins

PAL runs slower than the games were designed for therefore they are worse.

>>376897137
No, you retard, NTSC has higher fps.

>For 15+ years all europeans played games 25% slower than americans, brazilians and japanese
that's one of the reasons europe is full of brainwashed kids

>>376897056
As someone who grew up on PAL? NTSC.

>>376897056
PAL CAN be good but the japs and murricans were too lazy to optimize their games properly (that shitshow continued until the PS2/GC/Xbox generation) and simply padded the output with black bars to compensate for the superior vertical resolution offered by PAL instead of actually using it, and slowed their games down 16.7% for 50 Hz to 50 fps, sometimes even slowing down the music too.

Some games were a drag to play because of this.

It's less of a problem today thanks to digital shit and HDTV.
We see some remnants of this shitty era even today with 30 or 60 FPS locked games that you can't unlock on PC because the devs tied the animations and clocks and shit with the framerate.

>>376897196
>>376897206
>>376897210
>>376897293
Fps doesn't matter if the game looks like shit.

File: 1292957058051.jpg (7KB, 158x152px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 158x152px

>>376897293

>>376897196
Pal has higher vertical resolution, but with nothing to fill it with you get letterboxing. Pal machines did have higher resolution vide modes but they didn't see much use in the 16bit era

>>376897608
They look the same in that image though. Its also not like SCART, s-vid, or component is exclusive to PAL anyway so?? Youre a fucking dumbass

>>376897056
PAL is hands-down the better standard, but NTSC was better supported by the game industry.

>>376897696
Go play the NTSC version on a TV from the 90s and you'll understand.

>>376897438
>and slowed their games down 16.7% for 50 Hz to 50 fps, sometimes even slowing down the music too.
Huh, that's why some games felt more sluggish than you would expect them to. I didn't know that.

File: Screen_shot_2009-10-09_at_4.42.45_PM[1].png (399KB, 1020x315px) Image search: [Google]

399KB, 1020x315px

>>376898010
Yeah okay, let me just hop into my fucking time machine.

>>376898121
It was very apparent in Sonic games on Genesis/Mega Drive

>>376897608
It's not fps dumbass. The game literally runs 20% slower.

>>376897056
Super Nintendo is made in Japan, Japan is NTSC therefore NTSC is better than PAL.

>>376898010
>>376897608
you literally have no clue what you are talking about

>>376898121
That's why it's much harder to get the Excalibur in the PAL version of FFIX.
Take Tales of Symphonia GC PAL and NTSC and compare them.
There was a skill that let you walk much faster on the map.
Using this skill in the PAL version barely let you approach the def?ult walking speed in the NTSC version.
The battles felt much more sluggish too.
I'm so glad I imported the NTSC version because the PAL version wasn't even announced then.

>>376898121
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWSIhf8q9Ao&t=396

>>376898350
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_QX6UGiGtE

>>376898321
Only if a game was badly optimized, it would run slower.

>>376898907
Games were programmed in Assembly back then and console games had a single hardware target. Like 99% of games tied everything to framerate for these reasons.

>>376899058
So, what's your argument?

>>376899225
Every game ran slower regardless of optimization on PAL vs NTSC consoles at the time.

>>376898825
>b-but PAL is supposed to be slow!

>>376898825
>doesnt even say which connections he used
epic

>>376898392
jesus christ how horrible

>>376899385
Not really, most games that got optimized for PAL had a negligible difference in framerate.

>>376899464
When did it say that?

>>376899636
It's what fat drumpfkins say in this thread. Diabetes has probably rotted their already American brains.

>>376898121
Didnt Sonic Heroes play ridiculously fast in the PAL version to try and compensate?

I grew up with PAL but I never noticed how fucking slow N64 games ran compared to NTSC as a kid. I swear, I remember Mario 64 and OoT running just as well as it runs it NTSC but yeah, memory was mistaken. N64 games feel so much fucking smoother on N64 it's not funny.

>>376899752
PAL is only slow when it's not been developed for or properly optimized for (that takes money and time), which has been the case a lot of times.

I think Rare were the only ones to do so on Nintendo consoles (which makes sense since they're based in the PAL region)

>>376899565
This. Muritards are clueless.

>>376897056
In general? PAL.
NeverTheSameColor sucks cock.

Weeb consoles and games are overrated as fuck though. Go back to /vr/ with that crap.

>grew up not knowing about 50hz/60hz

I played Sonic 2 recently on my original system I had as a kid and holy fuck it's awful. I guess growing up you don't know it's so bad and just deal with it

>>376900142
>no new IP
nice samefag OP

>>376900221
When this thread was made I was watering plants in my garden.
Go suck a cock and cry more.

>>376899385
PAL games could run at 50FPS, NTSC games at 60FPS, but PAL had a 20% higher resolution.

>>376897056
NTSC is obviously better. All non-retards agree that 60 Hz is better than 50 Hz. All the best developers were making games with NTSC in mind and nobody bothered to optimize for PAL because it was such a shitty standard.

File: Screenshot_12.jpg (24KB, 509x102px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 509x102px

>>376900221
OP here, you're wrong.

>>376900414
It's funny that the only argument NTSC apologists have is the slightly better framerate, PAL was better in every other way.

>>376900414
But PAL supports 60Hz progressive too, almost all CRTs in the 90's and up support it

Grew up with PAL and never was bothered by it.

Flamewars about this are stupid.

>>376900382
"Better resolution" doesn't mean shit when most consoles were putting out 240p or 480i signals. Nobody worthwhile was making games with a horizontal resolution of 576 lines in mind.

I just dont get the point of this thread any more... If it was an interesting discussion about the PAL/NTSC differences, sure. But I mean its just some fags shitposting
Its not like you can have a difference of opinion about this. PAL is literally 50hz, NTSC is literally 60hz. Many games in the PAL region suffered because of this (Sonic, Balloon Fight, Metroid, Super Metroid, etc.) Thats literally not an opinion, its just how things are.
What are you trying to accomplish here?

>>376900537
FPS is more important however.

>>376900762
b-but drumpf! americans btfo!

>>376900802
Not when the difference is negligible.

>>376897056
>60Hz
Burgers win this time.

NTSC was slightly better, but overall most people would not tell a difference.

>>376900537
The frame rate affects everything. A lot of games ran a lot slower on PAL TVs, but this wasn't just a visual problem. The gameplay and music were slowed down too.

Is there a list of mega drive/SNES games that ran like shit in PAL?

This is interesting.

>>376900968
lol, you can't seriously think a game going 10fps slower is negligible. There is a reason the standard in every other area is pretty much NTSC and not PAL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSSYo0npMhA

I will leave you with that link. To remember just how bad PAL is in comparison. Keep your stuttering frame pace to yourself.

>>376900762
>>376900912
>This is what NTCS apologists actually believe

>>376897056
PAL for telly, NTSC for vidya.

File: be8.png (473KB, 600x580px) Image search: [Google]

473KB, 600x580px

>>376901198
>NTShitter only as one game to make up for his pathetic format
LOL

Wait a second... Why would a game running 10fps less run slower?

Wut?

A game at 30fps doesn't run 50% slower than 60fps. It runs the same they just render less frames of animation right?

What am I missing here?

>>376900968
It's not negligible. The difference between 60Hz and 50Hz is immediately apparent to anyone with eyes. It was also noticeable to anyone with ears, since the music and sound effects were also ~17% slower on PAL.

>>376901007
>>376897206
>>376897438
>>376897210
>Muh 50hz
That's only TV broadcasting retards

Both versions ran at 60 fps.

>>376901339
>HURRR
>DURRR
Yes, I'm quoting (You).

>>376901339
fake news

>>376901331
Name one game that has this other than sonic.

>>376901325
The games actually ran slower on PAL. Check out this video comparing Castlevania. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmMXA7FpR_U

The PAL version plays (and sounds) slower than it's supposed to. PAL was a horrible format for video game consoles in the '80s and '90s.

>>376901325
that game performance is tied to fps in most cases and you're wrong?

>>376901506
try any game that was intended for a 50hz screen, shitposter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Okm8dF55DI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWwAXUZvDhk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9A3rTrUN0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDiHBcDCj3E

>>376901518
>PAL was a horrible format for video game consoles in the '80s and '90s.
It was superior (ask any professional), but not the format targeted by JP and US devs.
If it had been (and say, EU mainly used NTSC), it'd have been the same shitshow with games being a pain in the ass to port to NTSC.
It's just that. Lazyness.

>>376901506
There's a Castlevania video just below your post. Here's one for Mega Man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlIr-MaJxg8

The difference was really noticeable in fast games like F-Zero: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9A3rTrUN0

Anyone who is suggesting that the differences in frame rate weren't significant doesn't know anything.

File: 1491397841317.jpg (786KB, 1181x1181px) Image search: [Google]

786KB, 1181x1181px

All those butthurt Ameritards with their Never The Same Color arguments.
It sucked, calm down now, nothing you can do.

It felt great having a PlayStation in the 90's though with a RGB/SoL SCART cable while 'Muritards only had component or S-Video on their shitty 90's CRTs.

>>376901928
oh god, that mega man music. thank god i grew up with ntsc

>>376901325
depends how the game is programmed. decoupling framerate from the game speed is more complicated so in most console games even today the framerate dictates the game speed

>>376897056
The one that ran at full speed.

>>376901959
Uh...yeah, 27 years ago I guess PAL had better colors or something even though most consumer TVs didnt even have a SCART slot. Who gives a shit?

>>376898825
>>376899464
Even ignoring that this is PS1 so a generation after the SNES, Crash is one of the few games where the developers actively planned for export ahead of time and re-exported the models, animations, etc. to match the different framerate. If you can find the old Jason Rubin interview page thing it's in there.

>>376902029
It's horrible. It's bad enough that games ran like shit on PAL, but it's downright tragic that entire countries grew up without ever knowing how Mega Man or Castlevania were supposed to sound. Tragic.

>>376902080
That's bullshit though, the only modern games with speed tied to framerate are the ones made by incompetent devs, even a neet in his basement can make games with variable framerates nowadays.

>>376902106
The Péritel plug (SCART for you plebs) was mandatory on TV sets sold in France from the early 80's until like last year because we invented and developed it :^).

>>376901830

NTSC was a terrible format that was so terrible they had to manually adjust close-to-skintone colours in US TV sets to stop people looking like aliens.

>>376901959
SCART was a god tier format. There's still no proper unified "Switch the input to this device" signal in HDMI, just 4-5 different interpretations of it, none of which have universal support.

>>376902331
>until like last year

not halal?

>>376902412
>There's still no proper unified "Switch the input to this device" signal in HDMI, just 4-5 different interpretations of it, none of which have universal support.

xbone did it right

>>376902245
having your game speed tied to your framerate is actually advantagous if you have a consistent framerate, like on consoles, because decoupling requires either interpolation (1 frame of lag) or integration (super complicated to program). Consoles have static hardware so you're always going to have the same framerate, if you aren't making a PC port there's no reason to bother. Console games have been like this until quite recently where more ports are being made and multi-platform engines are being used

>>376897056
Neither, I've stopped playing on console after I tasted VGA monitors during late 90's.

>>376902245
So all jap (console?) devs?

>>376902415
It's become obsolete now with digital TV, HDMI and Display Port.

>>376902412
HDMI-CEC is working somewhat well on my setup, but you're right, the devices involved must have implemented it for it to work.

With SCART you just had to send 12V on pin 16 or something like that.
It was great.

>>376902481
>consistent framerate, like on consoles
hueuheuheuheueheuhu

>>376902481
>consistent framerate
>consoles
Made me reply.

>>376902080

It is piss easy to do Δt in coding, it's just console developers are lazy as fuck.

Instead of doing:

x_pos = x_pos + x_speed
you do
x_pos = x_pos + (x_speed * frame_time)
.

>>376902691
lol, unity developers
now accurately integrate loads of physical objects all moving at different rates of acceleration and colliding at the same time

>>376902513

Support has got better. Sky upgraded their software to do it and the PS4 supports it (even if it's a bit unreliable) .

The big difference is that SCART gave you switching the second you sent a signal with no need to put in an implementation (and switching on demand if you put in extra effort). HDMI requires you to specifically code it in to work at all.

>>376902881
Shit you're right, i guess that's why there are no games with variable frame rates.

>>376897293
And we still shit all over US in e-sports.

Step your fucking game up, Daquan.

>>376903018
there are, they just use interpolated physics, which gives you 1 frame of lag

>>376901339
>TV broadcasting
>50hz TV
>60fps

Are you some kind of subhuman entity ?

Old CTR television in the PAL region had a 50fps refresh rate STANDARD, so most game actually HAD to run at 50fps because of incompatibility with the Televisions.

>>376903117
Oh no, 1 frame of lag, i guess it would be better to be tied down to whatever framerate the dev wants to target.
I hear 30fps is more cinematic anyway.

>>376897056
NTSC because it doesn't play games in slow motion

T. Britbong

>>376903274
try playing a fighting game with an extra frame of lag
but yeah, it really doesn't matter that much, which is why most games do it but it's still nice to not have it there

>>376897056
SECAM

>>376902881

That's a problem with fixed frame times as well.

You're always going to end up with situations where you need to work out order/priority of collisions and protections against getting fast moving objections getting stuck in or teleportation to the other side of scenery.

>>376903574
>That's a problem with fixed frame times as well.
its not, you just move the objects one after the other. it's not about a realistic result, but a consistent result. Getting integrated physics to behave the same at 10 fps as 100 fps or even 30 to 60 is so much of a pain in the ass it might aswell be impossible

Interesting thread. I have a question: I had a pal tv during my teens but I used those cables that allowed me to play at 60hz. Was I getting the full ntsc experience or was I still behind?

>>376897056
PALfags on suicide watch!

File: 1336356228053.jpg (42KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 250x250px

>>376897056
>Japanese cart
>American SNES

File: ranura-super-nintendo-modificada-para-super-famicom.png (540KB, 748x421px) Image search: [Google]

540KB, 748x421px

>>376904331
There's no regional lockout between the two outside of plastic that can be snapped out easily.

>>376904331
The region lock was physical wasnt it? Or am i thinking of n64?

>>376904495
I feel dumb for spending money on those converters now.

>>376898121
I especially remembered it on the gamecube, since you could switch between 50 and 60 hz.
Played phantasy star online on mine set to 60 hz and whenever I played on a friends console which was set to 50hz it completely fucked up my timing.

File: playN64-1.jpg (169KB, 800x534px) Image search: [Google]

169KB, 800x534px

>>376904530
N64 also has no lockout between the two, outside of plastic that can be easily snapped out. Hell the front of the cart design is exactly the same, if you have a screwdriver you can replace the back plate and just do it that way.

>>376897056
the real question is: Who the fuck cares?

>>376901339
that's 100% false, retard

>>376904874
This is a gaming board so it is not that surprising that people care about gaming quality.

>>376903703

Base game logic physics should be on its own thread. Put in a maximum frame time and code your collision detection to assume that worst case scenario.

If your physics thread can't run fast enough to meet that maximum time your game is probably unplayable anyway so you're going to have slow it down or queue non-critical physics if you know it's only likely to be a spike.

If your physics can't take a <50% increase in frame time without breaking in a 2D game, they're shit anyway.

>>376897056
Are u fucking retarded?

>>376905134
calm your autism

Now that I've experienced some games on emulators at their proper speed, I can't go back to playing them on my real PAL machine.

For example my favorite NES game is Megaman 4, which runs so fucking slow at PAL and the NTSC game on my PAL system has slower music, which is even worse.

So yeah, NTSC is superior because it's how they were meant to be played for the very large part. I'm not even sure if many games took advantage of the bigger resolution in PAL regions.

>>376903210

PAL is a collection of standards.

PAL-M was 525/60

There was also a non-standard NTSC with PAL colour encoding method when PAL gear needed to deal with NTSC signals.

>>376905550
says the guy who doesn't know where he is posting

>>376901959
What's hilarious is that 99.99% of gamers played on the dogshit bundled composite converters that came with every single console.

Honestly, was there ONE that supported RGB SCART out of the box?

It's such a fucking meaningless thing to brag about, but I guess you've got to jerk off over something when you know you had the objectively worse system.

60hz is just plain better. The colour issues with NTSC pale in comparison to the sheer number of titles that got lazy 16% speed reductions across Europe.

>>376905687
but a pal console with the rgb scart cable = american NTSC experience? Are there differences? Actually all of my consoles/tvs supported the cables

>>376905994
No, not at all. A PAL console is worse in most cases without a crystal swap and other internal mod work, and a PAL game is inferior in 99.9% of cases.

Only with the PS2 did consoles start supporting PAL60. Up until then, the best you could get is 50hz with any PAL game, although you could remove region lockouts and use modchips to play true NTSC games over RGB. Past that, PAL60 only supported NTSC resolution anyway, so it's not like you got a better framerate AND the resolution increase.

Almost no titles took advantage of the resolution difference, because anything good was made in Japan. 20% wasn't a big difference anyway.

>>376906263

By the PS1 era developers were actually properly porting their games to PAL and in the PS2 era, good conversions were expected, you got a huge amount of shit if you did a bordered PAL conversion by then (FFX sticks in my mind).

>>376906612
Right, but a "proper" conversion still meant 50hz cancer.

60hz flicker was annoying at the periphery on CRTs, 50hz is literally a case of "how the fuck did I ever watch this shit as a kid" these days, it's nauseating.

So were there any examples of bad PAL > NTSC conversions? Was there even a US model of the Amiga?

Cropped images, games that run faster but have much more frequent slowdown?

>>376905659
still sounding pretty autistic there

>>376906263
My teens were even more of a lie than I originally thought :(

>>376905687
At the very least the SNES and the PS1 had RGB SCART cables bundled with them.

And don't play dumb, RGB was VASTLY superior to the composite/RF crap the rest of the world was playing with.
Well, the obviously superior option was PAL60 with RGB out, and starting with the PS2/GC you could have that without modding shit.

>>376906940
>>At the very least the SNES and the PS1 had RGB SCART cables bundled with them.
I never had a SNES at the time, but I'm positive the PS1 came with composite shit. I mean, the GunCon wouldn't have even worked without that unless you got one of the later adaptors. Maybe it was different in France, but the euro-av cable was definitely an accessory, not bundled here.

RGB is vastly superior to composite and RF, of course. But that has nothing to do with SCART. SCART is just a connector, I play all my shit through RGB-BNC, I'm not about to jerk off about how nice BNC is as a connector.

PAL60 RGB is literally just NTSC RGB with a modified colour carrier for better euro TV support. You can brag all you want about having a PAL60 set with improved colours in 2001 if you really want, but there were still plenty of options in America for improved quality, like component, or VGA, that were easily accessible even at the time.

>>376906920

It's only the 8 bit and 16 bit era in which the conversions were universally awful.

After that games increasingly got conversions.

>played Master system games on the GameGear
>always wondered why they were faster on the GG

It's kinda weird the MS got bad conversions for so many games considering its biggest userbase was in PAL regions.

>>376903023
>get shit on by 1.8billion chinks and some mudslims
>AHAHA WE BETTER THAN AMERICA
some consolation prize.

>>376907468
>PS1 and RGB cable
It was the case in France, mine came with one, and my friends had it too.

You're right about SCART being "just" a connector (we had our fair share of partially cabled el cheapo SCART cables only capable of carrying composite), but the point is that RGB on SCART was much, much more widespread than e.g. RGB on BNC or RGB on VGA in the 90s. The average kid was much more likely to play on composite in America than RGB

My only regret was not being able to play in 480p in the early 00s in the PS2/GC/Xbox era.

>live in Europe
>play pal P3
>later modify my PS2 so I can play P3 FES which was NTSC only at the time
>everything feels like it's sped up at first but I get used to it
>go back to original P3 out of curiosity
>everything is obviously slowed down, game is literally probably 1 hour longer just because shit moves slower
I can't believe I played so many games in 25fps my entire life

>>376900537
It's not the framerate, it's the game speed you fucking retard.

>>376901339
uwot. sonic adventure 2 battle ran like shit and had double input issues because it was forced to run at 50Hz. it literally became almost unplayable because of it. that's how bad it was

as for TV broadcasts, that's 25fps you dumb fuck. everything was sped up compared to your americano 24fps broadcasts

>>376908024
In theory, maybe. In practice, most people used bundled cables and never even knew about the potential advantages of RGB, which are pretty overblown on consumer sets anyway.

I suppose that it's nice it existed at the time because it means that RGB cables are easier and cheaper to get a hold of these days, but it's not something most of Europe even considered. Maybe France was a little more strict about it, but across Europe most people played on composite.

Honestly, even if it was true, and everyone in Europe was playing RGB on sets that had dogshit colour separation anyway, I'd still rather play NTSC with fucked up colours than deal with slowdown.

>>376897056
Feels good to have replaced all my PAL consoles with NTSC. They look and run fantastic on my CRT with Scart RGB.