How would /v/ fix Steam refunds so devs stop complaining?

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Never forget.

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I wouldnt

try making a game thats not shit and more than 2 hours long

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>Wanting these "devs" to stop complaining

Refunds give the customer an opportunity to return a product they aren't happy with. You don't know if you're going to like a game until you play it and since barely any devs put out demos anymore you have to fork over the money first before you can develop an opinion.

If devs like The Chinese Room are worried about refund policies that just shows they aren't confident in their own products and they should probably try making better games instead of 2 hour long walking simulators.

>>376738360
devs won't ever stop complaining

Let them bitch.

>>376738360
How do we fix /v/ so autists stop reposting these awful threads?

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>>376738757
>shit devs
FTFY son

>>376738360
>wahhhh I cant scam people with my shitty 1 hour long walking simulator anymore ;'''(

Refunds are a part of business. They're an important part of customer satisfaction and retention, which drives profit despite there always being a percentage of people who do take stuff back regularly.

People trying to set vindictive anti-comsumer terms do not understand business and should be ignored immediately.

>>376738360
>How would /v/ fix Steam refunds so devs stop complaining?
maybe finish their game instead of selling chopped pieces of slaughtered code

>>376738360
>Play 10 minutes of one of their games
>10% completed

I'll pass

>>376738360
>buys a game
>download takes 3 hours
>cant refund when you get to play the game.

>>376738535
>all of this services GamerGate's toxic consumer-first ideology
>toxic consumer-first ideology
these people are so inept at marketing that it baffles me.

>nu-male cuck dev who can't make games to save their lives bitching they can't scam people of their money

OH NO THE SKY IS OVER

>>376738360
>Steam refunds based off of achievements earned now
>Devs set them
>Boot up game
>One achievement
>Start the game
>Two achievements
>Look up skirt
>Three achievements
>Woah buddy I think you've seen enough to make a decision. You're locked out of refunds now degenerate scum.

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>>376738360
Leave it as is. The devs complaining will stop being devs soon enough

>>376738360
Remove devs that complain, problem solved.

Stop posting this shitty thread and start making good games.

>>376738360
>Make shitty game that is only a hour long
>Charge 20 bucks
>Everyone is disappointment with product and refunds
>Wonder why

how about they host a website and sell the game there if they dont like steam's policies? this isnt fucking rocket science

>>376738360
Not only should we get refunds but also compensation for the time it takes us to download broken pieces of shit.

>>376738535
>I don't care about laws in most countries!
>I want money for my indie pixel shit nobody care for

If the devs don't like Steam then they shouldn't publish their games on that platform.

valve dindu nuffin rong.
steam refunds is a solid system. a got a refund for arma II and cs:go after playing for a little over 2 hours.

>>376738360

It makes me speechless how a dev can be this stupid and ignorant about their own product

>>376738360

Have Steam remove all games that can be completed in under 2 hours from its store.

>Make 10 minute game
>When you launch it a launcher comes up that locks you out of your game for 2 hours so you can't refund
ehehe the goyim will never suspect it

>>376739857
Come on dog don't be ridiculous. Ubisoft and EA CREATED their own platform and even they can't survive without steam.

>>376738360
How many times are people going to make these shit threads?

The "Piracy is bad, have an example about food or some shit," and the "How do we fix Steam refunds so garbage-tier devs stop complaining," threads are getting tired and less interesting then they already were.

>>376738360
lazyass fuckboi devs could start making demos again

What about refunds based on number of times a button was pressed? Or more likely something more general than button presses like 'total input'.

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>>376738360
>how do we fix chemo so cancer stops dying
Fuck
Right
Off.

>>376739603
Then sue website/owners for not allowing eu/aus customers to refund their purchases.

i should buy one of their games and then refund it within 6 minutes of playing. also i should buy something i actually want to play and keep it so valve doesnt get suspicious.

Maybe they should make games that have substance that lasts longer than 2 fucking hours?

>>376739576
Is OP a dev?

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>>376738360
How can you efficiently judge a person's completion percentage for every game?

Not all games use those shitty story progression achievements.

>Remove refunds
>Allow two hours play time on any game on steam
>Pay to unlock unlimited play time

>>376738360
Well, if the game is also really cheap, I can't deny that a 2 hour threshold isn't really fair.

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>>376738535
Still mad. Worse there are shits on /v/ whom think the same way.

that shit is absurd, not all games are walking simulators that have a ridiculously low amount of content where you can easily track how much of it has been "completed"

REALLY simple my ass, what about open ended games, open world games, games with a lot of sidequests and side missions, pure multiplayer games? how will that work, based on the percentage of how many maps and weapon classes you tried?

Is The Chinese Room really that retarded? The 2 hour limit is perfect, it's absolutely more than enough for most games to tell if you like them or not, or to see if they run like ass, or to reveal that they have no gameplay a la Chinese Room games

>>376740460
OP posts this same thread everyday, sometimes multiple times a day. OP is either a dev or associated on some way with indies.

>charging 20+ dollars for a 2 to 3 hour game
They deserve everything they get.

>>376738360
Why don't they make games you don't finish in 45min and make you pay $10 for it?

>>376740216
>EA can't survive without Steam
They literally don't publish anything at all anymore on Steam for several years now, there are a couple of games that were there before they did that, but really nothing new gets on there

EA seems to be doing just fine with Origin and consoles alone

>>376738360
Fuck them, make it 4 hours until refund.

>>376738360
for the "devs" that feel this way, steam is not the platform for their games. their audience is on the app store.

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>>376738360
>Chinese Room's opinion worth anything

Fucking kek.

>>376738360
By taking a page out of how returns of digital sales are handled in Germany.

>>376738360
stop being a failed screenplay writer and develop games

>making game
>making demo
>demo is roughly an hour long the next natural break point being 2.5 hours later
People can deal with only an hour long demo.

I can see an issue for games that cost like 3$ and are 2 hours long.

the refund policy actually boosts sales in my case because i know if i don't like it or it won't work properly i can just refund it. i have only had to get a refund once, and it was for deadly premonition. i couldn't leave the hotel without the game crashing.

>>376738360
Devs should be required to post an average play time upon placing their game on the market if it's singleplayer or has a singleplayer campaign. Then steam can deny refunds if a certain percentage of that avg time has been played.

And then consumers wouldn't be gipped out of a short experience.

>>376740491
This shit is fucked if you think about multiplayer only games. Isn't that like most steam games?

>>376738360
How about you make a game that people wanna keep then eh?
If your game is completed within two hours and people decide they dont wanna support you, then you're the problem.
If you provide good entertainment, people wanna support you. Simple as that.

>>376741235
sexy girls don't equate to sexist games. actual feminists understand this, but these castrated retards looking for brownie points never will.

>>376738360
WTF? Fuck these cucks!

>>376738360
The refund policy is one of the things Steam does right. If your game is 2 hours long and devoid of replay value then it should get refunded. Its a really shitty product in that case.

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>>376738535
>What Valve have done is penalise small indies with ethical DRM poilicies and that's unforgivable
kek, so they would rather scam people out of their dosh

Is a <2 hour game really a problem if it's priced accordingly?

>>376740442
>subpoenas being sent to a us citizen for eu/au refund policies
the owner will wipe their ass with it.

>>376742128
Absolutely not, but they usually aren't priced accordingly or listed as being very short.

>>376739232
>Steam Achievement Manager still unbannable if not connected to a VAC server
>Complete game
>Reset achievements
>Get refund

>>376738360
I don't know. There is probably an answer in one of the other 73 threads about this that you made you fucking omega-level autist.

>>376742128
It's not about price but replayability. Shmups are all under 2 hours but endlessly replayable, walking simulators aren't.

>>376738535
>toxic consumer-first ideology
kek

More like how should we fix /v/? Make it so twitter screens are instant bans.

https://boards.fireden.net/v/search/image/vEC4ClxdZhQvcAchqF0TFQ/

>>376738737
It's like this.

If there were no refunds on Steam, I would end up just pirating those games. At least with the refund system, if I like it, I end up keeping it and they keep my money. Without refunds, I'd just pirate and if I liked it, I would just complete my free game since I already got it DESU

>>376742128
if your game is beatable in 2 hours with 0 replay value it should be free or so low-cost only the cheapest jewiest scumbag would refund it.

It's a fine policy. I still wish I could refund arma III, it was just a few months over the limit when refunds first came out.

>>376739603
They do. Then they whine when they realize that by taking on the burden of processing the payments, they now have to deal with credit card fraud.

>>376742424
>BUY MY SUB-PAR OVER PRICED GAME YOU CAPITALIST FUCKS!!!!!

>>376738360
you get a percentage of your refund back if you are past the 2 hour mark depending on the reviews:

Overwhelmingly Positive - 10%
Very Positive - 20%
Positive - 30%
Mostly Positive - 40%
Mixed - 50%
Mostly Negative 60%
Negative - 70%

>>376741759
this actually makes sense

>>376742729
That is the single worst idea I've seen. Steam is not a hivemind and taste is not objective

>>376739127

>THE SKY IS OVER

?

>>376742729
no, fuck off.
its fine as is.

>>376741759
steam wont do that, they dont have time for that shit. how about devs start making games with real content?

>>376742976
It's a very simple equation, lad.

>>376742729
>accidentally play overwhelmingly positive game for 2.1 hours
>go to their forums
>make a million accounts all asking for some shitty game ruining feature
>they do it because of popular demand
>game ruined
>drops to negative
>refund game for 70% instead of the 10% I would have gotten

>>376743112
or
>everyone votes negative so people wont feel completely ripped off whenever they dont like a game

>How would /v/ fix Steam refunds so devs stop complaining?
Full refunds, unrestricted. If the game is shit you deserve your money back, period. Making a copy of a game costs a dev literally nothing.

>>376742729
Steam literally had to recently go through troubles to seperate paid steam review (owners of free codes giving reviews) to stop devs/publishers falsly inflating their scores, if money was hard tied to the system it'd be even more of a sham.

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>>376743112
>make a million accounts all asking for some shitty game ruining feature
>valve won't notice a bunch of new accounts spamming one game

>>376738535
>toxic consumer-first ideology
fucking Americans I swear

>>376743231
piratefags need to die
>I played it for 100 hours and it SUCKED
fuck off

>>376743231

If it costs nothing why even pay for it in the first place?

>>376743112
You have to own the game to review it, dumbass. That means you have to pay for the game millions of times.

>>376738360
>proper demo
>non-refundable

>no demo
>refundable

There ya go. Proper demo means it accurately demonstrates the gameplay in the full game. No interactive bullshots allowed

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>>376742881
>Steam is not a hivemind
lmao

>>376743295
I meant, like, on whatever independent forum site a lot of games usually have. Not on the steam forums, which developers never go to.

>>376738360
Yeah figuring out what exactly is a percentage in most games is so simple.

These guys are devs?

>>376742525
A game like that should be priced like a netflix B-movie rental, because that's mostly what it is

>>376740825
/v/ has the strangest mindset of any board. I don't understand why /v/ has such brand loyalty and so vehemently think they owe developers something or developers are their friends after all the shit they've seen video game companies pull. It's baffling.

Video game consumers deserve everything they get because they're too stupid to understand that 'whining on the internet... but buying the product anyway' isn't a valid tactic.

>>376743337
>wow I grinded for 100 hours to find out it was all for nothing, clearly this game is worth the money and a solid 10/10 -nintendo fan on BOTW
>>376743351
Why do people buy games in the first place?
To support the dev and be an e-penis waving steam faggot.
Your dipshit argument makes purchasing software irrelivant because piracy exists.

>>376738360
I'd stop making this thread every fucking day for a month.

>>376743556
It's easy in THEIR games.

Now, there are ways to track progress in most single-player genres, but a refund system based on that would just lead to devs abusing those ways to no end and making the game worse for people who don't intend on refunding.

>>376738360
I cant believe you are defending a fucking dev.
You need to go straight to hell and suck Satan cock.

>>376741036
Why? Movies are rarely more than 2 hours, usually cost ten bucks or more, and people don't abuse refunds. I had to get more than a couple during my mall rat days and all the clerks I spoke to said they would refund even if I stayed for the whole movie. I worked at Whole Foods for a while and there was a one hundred percent, no questions asked refund policy, even if the product was consumed entirely. I can count on one hand the number of times I saw it used at all, much less abused.

Refund policy is terrible, but because it's not long enough. Fuck you Americans and your addiction to sucking logs of shit out of corporate anus. You're the reason why Valve forces me to relinquish my right to a refund for any reason within 14 days.

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>europoors talking about rights

The notion that a short game ought to cost less just shows how retarded you lot are.

Go back to collecting achievements and trophies, get your mom's money's worth

>>376743743
To be fair a movie theater doesn't lose much from a refunded ticket. They (at least cinemarks) are more likely to just hand out a free movie ticket instead of giving a cash refund anyway because they've probably already made their money from the concessions stand and handing you a free movie ticket makes it more likely you'll buy more concessions later.

>>376738737
What if games that provide demos were much harder to refund? It at least give devs an option.

>>376743975
>Go back to collecting achievements and trophies
Will do

And you'll get none of my money mr. game dev :)

>>376738360
2 hours is a percentage.
They tried to pass 8% of a game off as an "experience" and have no one to blame but themselves.

>>376743404
That's fine because you'll get it all back when you refund lmao dumbass.

>wahh i canty be bothered making my game 4 hours instead of 2 wahh

>>376738360
the only people complaining are interactive move makers so theres no need to change it to please game devs

>>376738360

We don't. The devs are the ones after our moneu, if they want it then they're going to have to earn it bt making games that people don't want to refund.
Contrart to what they might claim, most people will be happy to buy a game if it's good. If they're that ckncerned about people xlaiming a refund after finishing it then perhaps they don't make shitty walking simulators that last 15 minutes tops.

>>376738360
I wouldn't, I love refunds.

>>376743898
>Americans have to rely on their credit card companies to give them consumer protection rights
Lmao

>>376738360
there is nothing to fix. abusive users get banned from refunding again
devs love to complain about stuff on twitter, the same as the G2A drama

>>376741065
Not that anon but you're forgetting one thing, ea games are also on uplay and ubisoft games are on origin.

2 hours can be the standard refund time, or devs can pick 20% of average game length instead, but then you get a warning while adding it to your cart informing you of the different refund limit.

Then you can decide not to buy it if 20% of their game is like 20 minutes.

>>376738360
It doesn't need fixing. Refunds are there for the customers' convenience/protection.

>refunds operate off a percentage of the game completed
>wanting valve to be able to spy on save progress
>wanting valve to monitor this in the first place
>wanting to have an excuse to continue creating unfree closed source bullshit and giving valve an excuse to spy on customers

this guy should be banned from coding for life

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>>376744471
>Euros have to rely on the government for consumer protection

>>376738360
>every game has achievements
>if you steam share a game then your account doesn't get the achievements earned attributed to your account but rather the person you shared it to.

>>376744856
Oh no, having to rely on the organisation that is elected to protect and serve citizens? The horror!

>>376744964
>protect and serve citizens
>by flooding their land with migrants
tell me how long that works out for you, ahmed

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>>376744964
>I am a cuck because I CHOOSE to be one
Yes. we know

>>376744856
wait what

>>376744737
>wanting valve to be able to spy on save progress
>wanting valve to monitor this in the first place
>implying they don't already
Literally the reason for achievements on steam in the first place.

>>376738360
You need to stop posting this shit every week.

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>>376738535
>penalize small indies with ethical DRM
>toxic consumer-first ideology

>>376738360
>caring about what shitty devs who make walking sims type on twitter

>>376745219
those are in game triggers set by the developers nothing to do with valve the only thing they see is the achievement and thats handled by an algorithm

>>376745074
>>376745108
Your government acts in the best interests of the corporations that treat you like shit in the first place and you just swallow it like the good goys you are because "muh free market"

>>376738360
1. don't release on steam
2. make your game longer/better

fucking idiot

>>376738535
He's true about half-life

>>376745534
half life wasn't just about the game though. It was about the engine

>>376738360
you don't

>>376738360
Extend the two hour time limit to four hours because most games take fucking forever to actually start these days due to scripted events and forced tutorials out the ass or just wasted time trying to troubleshoot something.

>>376738565
A game being just two hours isn't even that big of a deal if it's actually good. Make a game worth a damn and I'll put more than two hours into it regardless if that's how long it takes to complete during your initial run.

>>376742424
You reap what you sow you little bitch.

>>376745469
>muh free market
the US isnt a free market. corporate protection isnt free market either.

>>376745603
I assure you every single HL fan you will see on /v/ will praise it for stupid shit like "not using cutscenes" when it in fact uses something worse.

>>376745702
>it's not anarchy so it's not a free market
XDXDXD

FACT PC gaming will not NOT survive without steam it will absolutely die

It's pretty good as it is, maybe some tweaks.

- No restrictions on returns in Early Access. Any time, any reason. Time, technical, false advertising, abandoned development, "I was drunk", "dev fucked my girl", don't matter. You want a protected revenue stream? Release.
- Remove the 2 week limit from purchase. We've all god games from sales that we don't touch for months, you shouldn't forfeit consumer protections.
- No play time considerations for short games, but monitor accounts that excessively refund short games. And don't publicize the thresholds or metrics.
- Open up a refund period after significant patches or DLC releases. If your 2.0 patch, New Game Experience, or stupid cash shop safe nonsense completely changes the game, I want out.

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>>376746313

The Chinese Room can complain about this when they start making "interactive narrative experiences" that take longer then 2 hours to complete.

>>376745871
And you're one of those wannabe oldfags who thinks HL started corridor shooters. Neck yourself.

>>376738360
>the fucking chinese room
>angry that someone didn't like their pretentious shatouts
They fucking killed Amnesia AMFP as far as I concerned. Their "writing" is what brought the game from mixed to plain bad.

>>376746441
what dso you think would happen when steam dies? we will just go back to the old dick install system? no microsoft will swoop in take everything over lock it down to the windows store and slap an xbox live subscription over the entire thing and soon enough a "gaming PC" will be a glorified xbox

>>376746376
I absolutely love the first and last
if the first is solid it needs to have something like "X amount of time after release the early access refund is still in place" so devs can't just release finished games and get out scot-free

>>376746646
Yeah microsoft will try that, then it will rule, a small sect will get fed up and start a linux clone of steam but it will never reach steam levels.

That still doesn't mean all emulators and DRM free games will suddenly stop existing and PC gaming will die, it will just be a platform that has become less convenient since everything will be spread out.

>>376745363
>drm
>ever ethical

I got it, lets stop the pirates by punishing consumers while doing nothing to stop the pirates

>>376746617
A Machine For Pigs was basically what they usually make but with an Amnesia skin haphazardly thrown on it.

>>376746902
steam is better than any of that though the only thing i cna see being better than steam is nintendo shutting down console manufacturing making a PC client and allowing people to host their games on it alongside nintendos library NO ONE ELSE SHOULD BE TRUSTED TO THE PC GAMING MARKET THEY ARE ALL SHIT

>>376738360
keep them the way it is.

>>376747105
Your hypothetical only asked what happened what happens after steam dies, obviously I think steam is better and wasn't arguing that at all.

>>376747009
I played dear esther, and it had literally no elements of gameplay apart from moving - or should I say linearly progressing. The writing was also repulsive. Level design and some visual elements very nice though.
I also liked Korsakovia playing it seven years ago or so, but that might have been me being more easily impressionable back then. It also degenerated heavily after the first couple levels.

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>>376738360
EU's refund policies don't roll that way

>>376743590
are you saying you're not a video game consumer?

I didn't notice the "so devs stop complaining" part right away.

You don't - fuck 'em. Return policies are consumer protections. Not all devs are shitty, but some of them are. I'm sorry some of them ruined it for you but this is the only protection we have against that nonsense. Make an engaging, technically sound, honestly marketed game and you won't have to worry about returns.

And release a goddamn demo.

>>376743590
Have you ever thought that /v/ may not actually be one person but hundreds of people with different opinions on things?

>>376744058
Sure, as long as the demo was mandatory 2 hours long.

>>376738360
You remove them entirely and fuck the eurobitch whiny self entitled cunts.

>>376744058
devs dont fucking deserve options retard they are workers they are only here to provide the best possible game for the consumer they have NO RIGHT to complain about ANYTHING they shoulds sit down SHUT UP and make more games thats all they have the right to do

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>>376738360
lol

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>>376747608
Gamers are idiots.

>>376741759
Average play time seems difficult to determine. Like HLTB puts Persona 5 and Darksiders (last two games I beat) at 90 hours and 17.5 hours respectively. But I meet them in 70 hours and 12 hours, not rushing, just my own pace. I know a lot of games claim to be longer than they actually are, because they take into account different routes and shit, not just one playthrough.

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>>376748272
Not as good as beating a game and then refunding it

>>376746784
Of course. Treat it like the current pre-purchase rules. The game still hasn't released, right?

Though that's just a personal vent over Early Access really. I hate that system because there is absolutely no downside, no incentive to release instead of just popping onto EA as soon as you're stable and holding there indefinitely. Especially when they can just patch their games regularly anyway, making sweeping changes regardless of the release state.

I would play the absolute shit out of Factorio if they would release it, but I have no rational reason not to do it.

>>376739102
When you've been brainwashed to think the world is upside down, it's not unusual to think that consumers don't matter from a company's perspective. They likely believe profits are an inevitability and large companies just do whatever the fuck the person in charge feels like.

>>376748272
>>376748653
Damn, makes me wish I saved my KF2 refund screen. Something like 40 hours I think. And it was the deluxe edition. And I even unboxed a few cosmetics - one of them a gold shotgun that I sold for 20 bucks.

who keeps making these threads? fuck off and kys

>>376738535

That had more buzz words than your typical /pol/ thread.

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>>376739097
Retard confirmed

>>376741235
Wow how dare they tell a woman where she can and can't work and slut shame her, fucking misogynist pigs

>>376739478
So remove all devs?

>>376738360
2 hours is still not enough, it should be 4 hours at least. Fuck the devs, they won't stop complaining no matter what

>this thread again

Increase the time one can refund a game. Any early access game should have unlimited time to refund.

>>376738360
Extend play time to 4 hours.

>>376739097
i sincerely hope you witness your entire family brutally murdered by axe wielding men three times your size and are forced to repeat this forever only restarting each and every time you die painfully for all eternity

fuck you for being such a fucking retard

>>376749136
So does the game time policy apply if your game uses a launcher? I've definitely left Warframe up at the launcher while we went away for a week.

Maybe the download wouldn't take 3 hours but if it automatically launches after a patch and sits at the title screen while you're out at a concert, you shouldn't be fucked there.

>Look up Chinese Room's games.
>All walking simulators or games like Everyones Gone to the Rapture or Dear Ester

Yeah, no. They are biased.

>>376746376
>No restrictions on returns in Early Access. Any time, any reason. Time, technical, false advertising, abandoned development, "I was drunk", "dev fucked my girl", don't matter. You want a protected revenue stream? Release.
>>376748707
>Treat it like the current pre-purchase rules. The game still hasn't released, right?
>Though that's just a personal vent over Early Access really. I hate that system because there is absolutely no downside, no incentive to release instead of just popping onto EA as soon as you're stable and holding there indefinitely. Especially when they can just patch their games regularly anyway, making sweeping changes regardless of the release state.


On the bright side something like this would bring more people on board so they could probably get more feedback but then I feel some of them might just be exploiting this to play the shit out of it and then maybe jump out when proper release is coming because they already got burned out of it,

Is it possible to buy a steam game, refund and still play it in offline mode?

>>376749668
>Playing games with third party launcher programs that take hours to update

There's your problem: You have bad taste, because this problem only applies to MMOs and Ubisoft games

>>376749941
if you crack it but at that point you might as well torrent it otherwise refunding it removes it from your library

>>376749941
probably, but the next time you go online it would be deleted from your library

>PUBG negative review where player posted proof of being banned from the discussion after suggesting they put an in-game report system in
>review has been removed

Welp, that saved me $30 regardless.

Can't wait for self-service refunds (Steam's system) to come to all Xbox users (currently only available to alpha insiders but it's officially on the way) and inevitably PlayStation. The butthurt will be glorious.
>>376742128
Yes and no.
Like another anon says, it might not even matter if it has replayability because your overall time will be noticeably higher. If you have a game that has no replay value (either because it's 100% linear like most walking Sims, or it just isn't fun) then it better be fucking free or at most $1 or $2.
You should be getting at least $1 per hour of entertainment.
>>376742525
This.
The only time I wanted to refund something due to piss poor length was this:
>buy Energy Cycle on Xbone because it's cheap
>beat the game and get all achievements within a half-hour
>game isn't fun and has no replay value outside of "infinite mode"
>Fuck this, refund time
>ask Xbone friend how to get a refund
>"anon, wasn't it only $2? You should have known what you were getting."
>feel Jewish as shit
>decide not to get refund
Still rustles me how the low price traps you that way.

>>376738535
Fpbp.

>>376738535
fpbp.

>>376748707
what I meant is there should be a grace period after releasing
like, if they release their game and say they're done and it clearly isn't the product I was promised, I should still be able to refund for that.

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>>376738360
Make your game longer than 2 hours, stupid fuck.

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>>376741235
>Women can't be sexy or wear anything revealing...that's a sin-I mean, it's sexist!

>>376738535
FPBP

>>376749668
Yes that does count as playtime.

>>376738535
fpbp

>>376750378
These are the same people (and some of them feminist) that put booth babes out of jobs. It has been a few years, but I remember a couple of social media post from ex-booth babes who said it was nice of their fellow 'women' to keep them from making an extra grand when cons and things like E3 happened.

>>376738535
Fpbp and /thread

>>376738535
FPBP and op BTFO!!!

I think steam refunds are fine as they are, but I'd up it to 5-6 hours being refundable.

>>376745648
>Extend the two hour time limit to four hours
Came here to post this.

>>376738535
fpbp
/thread

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Steam refunds are fine as they are
Any dev who whines is an anti consumer piece of garbage
Anyone who disagrees is a corporate whore

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>>376738535
>an industry that exists to serve customers
>consumer first mindset is "toxic"

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>>376750212
>>decide not to get refund
>Being this much of a cuck

If a game is cheap and bad, it's still bad

I've refunded games for less

>>376740191
>End the task
>Refund the game
Wow that was hard.

Also

>Reviews end up being filled with people mad about the lock

>>376750778
Your mindset is toxic if you dont give me the source

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>>376750236
>>376750283
>>376750404
>>376750447
>>376750550
>>376750583
>>376750634
How to out yourself as a newfag Redditor in one easy step.

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>>376738360
>>376738535
Who the fuck even are these guys?

MAKE A FUCKING GAME THATS LONGER THAN TWO HOURS YOU FUCKING DESPERATE INDIE LAZY ENTITLES FUCK HEADS.

>>376738535
>Being forced to implement pro consumer policies represents gamergate.

Fuck these people

5 hour refund window for a 60 dollar game
2 hour refund window for a 40 to 50 dollar game
1 hour refund window for a 20 to 30 dollar game
30 minute refund window for a 15 dollar and under game.

Simple, fair, representative.

>>376750634

What the fuck does that stand for.

>>376745871
Its not only the "no cutscenes" thing, the golden source engine introduced dynamic physics and complex scripted events.

Something that pretty much they pioneered, and that's why HL is highly regarded (for better of worse) the foundation of modern games.

>>376751005
This is fucking retarded.

>>376750212
>You should be getting at least $1 per hour of entertainment.
Just for the record, I think refunds should be no questions asked, no game play limit - a limit from time of purchase if anything.
But I've always hated the 1 dollar per hour thing, especially since so many anons take it as law instead of a good rule of thumb. I get that enjoyment is subjective, but not all fun is equal. I enjoyed the 4 dollars per hour I put into Alien Isolation far far more than the 50 cents per hour I got out of Solar 2, just to pick a quick example.

>>376751094
First post best post.

It's a plague that /pol/ has brought onto this site via r_TheDonald.

>>376749690
That was the point of both comments, yes. I want to see the no-questions-asked EA return policy in order to give some meaning to actually releasing beyond bragging rights and morals. If you're in Early Access long enough for me to get bored with your game, that is a symptom of the problem and absolutely a valid reason to refund.

Maybe someone smarter than me will come up with some metric to accurately measure dissatisfaction vs cash money opportunity, but until then that's the risk you take.

>>376751005
This seems a little too random. Not to mention some indie games are actually longer than 2 hours but are also still bad games

>>376749438
I honestly wonder how do they deal with this dilemma.

>>376750797
I would have been more likely to do it if self-service refunds were actually available (I'm only a beta insider) as opposed to having to call up support and waste one of my "goodwill gestures" but you're right, I was a cuck.
Once I get access to the refund system, I won't let it happen again.

>>376750896
Looks like meme50's Lost Brush, but I'm not sure on the specific doujin.

>>376740552
Im ok with this

>>376738535
What game did he even make? It must be the most amazing shit ever.

>>376751301
see >>376750502
Those women are being forced, against their will, to do what men want, they just don't see if because they've been brain washed.

-Modern Feminist

>>376738360
stop stop stop stop stop stop STOP FUCKING MAKING THIS THREAD, LIKE 5 TIMES EVERY FUCKING DAY. STOP DATAMINING FOR FUCKS SAKE

Why do you make the same thread everyday you loser.

>The chinese room

every fucking time

>>376751301
"That poor poor uneducated woman! Let me try and set her straight, surely she will understand that I am completely correct!"

There easy.

>>376751369
Thanks for the lead anon

>>376750317
Right, that's exactly how pre-purchase works now. You could pre-purchase a game that releases next year and can get a full refund at any time until then, plus the standard 2 weeks after it. EA should work the same way.

We want the same thing here, and there's precedent for it.

How many weeks now has this thread been posted every day?

>>376751365
Nah I understand if you had to call up. Steam refunds are so nice because I don't have to deal with a person

Hopefully the automated refund system on Xbone prevents this

>>376751635
>weeks
I'm sure this thread has been made, at least, once a week for over a year now.

>>376738360
No refunds at all. You bought a digital copy of the game without using your senses to determine if it would flop or not. You made your bed, sleep in it.

Buy a hard copy, have actual merchandise, until the digital prices come down since they don't have to cover the costs of CDs with digital nor print the manuals or get the boxes.

It's not on Steam.

It's the developer's responsibility to make a game that's actually worth the price they set. If you make a two hour long walking simulator, don't charge more than a couple bucks at most for it.

>>376741743
For fuck sake, then buy yourself a different PC, Deadly Premonition is worth it. Then again I'm answering a bait with a bait so no harm's done.

>>376740552
I would actually be down with that system too. I'd prefer demos, but they're rare now. Something like Monster Hunter would be completely boned by that system.

More like Mushroom Hunter. 1/10

>>376738535
Well, he's right in the last tweet at least.

Why is there an issue with this? Indieshits shouldn't over value their game then. Either go f2p/episodic but dont expect $40 for an incomplete game.

>>376738360

make better games lol

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>>376738535
>ethical
Anyway, how delusional you must be to feel entitled to people's money without any problems?

refund window for single player game: 2 hours
refund window for multiplayer game: 200 hours

>>376752782

how about 2 hours after every patch for multi?

>>376738360
Make all indie games free with an option to donate haha no way fag to the creator

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>>376738535
>WAHHHHHHHHHHH MUH GOOBLEYGATE BOOGIEMAN

>>376751780
But anon, you soulless piece of shit, when you resell your copy you're essentially taking money out of developer's mouths. You just personally cost them a sale

>>376751180
fpbp existed before 2014 newfaggoto

>>376755069
Yeah, on Reddit.

>>376738565
>>376738360

Isn't it 30min or 2 weeks since purchase?

>>376754647
Boo fucking hoo, Romero, you make bank as it is. It's not like it's going to effect you in any sort of huge amount, like one copy equals one meal.

>>376738360
>so devs stop complaining?

Literally impossible as long as you can get a refund they will complain. Modern marketing is all about obscuring the product. That means anything that invalidates the money they put into it is a threat and they will complain.

>>376738360
First step would be not making this thread every day.
Second step would be telling indie devs to suck my cock.

>>376738360
I wouldn't.
Fuck anti-consumer devs.

>>376755252
well if you say so, but according to archives and my memory the term was used on 4chan even before trump announced his candidacy

if you want to blame someone blame the redditors that came here during the gamergate

>>376738360

reduce the refund window time to 1 hour

>>376755301

The automated system will handle a refund for any game owned under two weeks and played for under two hours. Steam will still refund products outside of that time frame, but you'll have to actually interact with a person in some capacity.

>>376738535
desu he's right about the two corridor shooters. I can give Half-Life a pass because of when it came out, but Half-Life 2 is so overate its ridiculous. Especially because its physics engine didn't do much than look kinda cool.

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>>376738535
>being this utterly derrière devastated

>>376738360
I would be fine with that refund policy if game prices were directly linked to average single player play time with multiplayer only games being free since they are worthless. 1 hour = 1usd. Want to sell a 60usd game? It better take the average person 60 hours to complete.

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>>376738535
>toxic consumer-first ideology
There are people that legitimately think this way

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>>376739097
>download takes 3 hours
lol shitter

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Steam refund policy is LITERALLY KILLING indie devs, /v/. How can we contain it?

>>376740552
oh damn that's not bad

>>376740552
Don't they open themselves to savegame abuse here?

>>376738360
make the refund policy not apply if the devs sell their game somewhere else.

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>>376751171
>tfw i've put hundreds of hours into mechwarrior online, a game I actively hated and very rarely had fun with

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>>376756478
>not wanting TofT dead

>>376746376

> No restrictions on returns in Early Access. Any time, any reason. Time, technical, false advertising, abandoned development, "I was drunk", "dev fucked my girl", don't matter. You want a protected revenue stream? Release.

This is a restrictions to the devs, Why go somewhere that is safe for your money or be an actual venture capitalists.

>Remove the 2 week limit from purchase. We've all god games from sales that we don't touch for months, you shouldn't forfeit consumer protections

Maybe you should be more responsible with you purchases. 2 weeks enough time. Give Steam a guarantee to lock a transaction and actually make this a viable business.

>No play time considerations for short games, but monitor accounts that excessively refund short games. And don't publicize the thresholds or metrics.

First completion time are often declared by the devs or reviewers. Also the value and quality of a game is not determine the length of the first completetion time alone. Be responsible with your purchases

>Open up a refund period after significant patches or DLC releases. If your 2.0 patch, New Game Experience, or stupid cash shop safe nonsense completely changes the game, I want out

Most this features are often declared early on before launch since it's part of business model. So you can easily avoid them by not purchasing them. I believe Steam has refunds for DLCs too so long as the DLC has not been consumed, modified or transferred. Please note that in some cases, Steam will be unable to give refunds for some third party DLC (for example, if the DLC irreversibly levels up a game character). These exceptions will be clearly marked as nonrefundable on the Store page prior to purchase.

>>376746376
>- No restrictions on returns in Early Access. Any time, any reason. Time, technical, false advertising, abandoned development, "I was drunk", "dev fucked my girl", don't matter. You want a protected revenue stream? Release.

Mixed opinions on that. I think maybe if X amount of time goes by and a developer does not reasonably update their game, I think that should open the floodgates. I also believe that Valve should monitor early access games a bit better and de-list stuff that has been abandoned by the developer.

>- Remove the 2 week limit from purchase. We've all god games from sales that we don't touch for months, you shouldn't forfeit consumer protections.

Eh, I think maybe increasing the amount of time from 2 weeks to a month would be better, but I have mixed opinions on no time limit.

>- No play time considerations for short games, but monitor accounts that excessively refund short games. And don't publicize the thresholds or metrics.

No.

>- Open up a refund period after significant patches or DLC releases. If your 2.0 patch, New Game Experience, or stupid cash shop safe nonsense completely changes the game, I want out.

Again, no.

>>376748542
Why wouldn't they at least leave the group before playing?