What made Metal Gear Solid 1 so good, /v/?

>>376697385
Because its one of the only games that Kojima actually meant to make

>>376697385
It was great despite Kojima. The guy that translated it changed a few things to have things make more sense and to make it more culturally relevant to Americans. Twin Snakes was more like what Kojima wanted with translation, if I could play TS with MGS audio/script, I would be set. Konami stopped working with the guy after that and MGS2 became a meme based on how ridiculously different it was. The translator they hired for it talked about having no leeway and having to translate everything literally, which, LOL.

Best balance between silly and serious. Best Snake.

>>376697385
It invented the genre of stealth action

>>376698141
I'm sure there were stealth action games before

>>376697385

literally kojimas magnum opus

every other mgs game after this was filler until he could make a movie (death stranding)

>>376697385
The atmosphere, the dialog, the tone. Timing too, I guess: I was a teen when it came out, and every word Snake said was like gospel, and all the frustration Liquid expressed on being composed of "recessive" genes really resonated with malcontent teenage me.

>>376697385

Nothing.

>>376698349
There are no bad MGS games (except for PO and PW), you fucking contrarian

>>376697385
Nanomachines, son.

>>376698447

>PW
>bad

WHAT DID YOU SAY

>>376697385
no asshat convoluted story.
no 30 min cutscenes used to explain said convoluted story
not used as an outright soapbox for kojima's basic bitch year 1 philosophy/psychology lectures

Intriguing story
Fun gameplay
Memorable sound effects
Good voice acting for the time
Kojima's attention to detail

That's off the top of my head. I replay MGS1 every month, no joke.

It was an impressively polished game that was not overly lenghty and delivered moments of great gameplay, emotional tension, and cinematic grandeur.

>>376698490
He's not wrong. PW was good in terms of Mother Base features etc, the gameplay was shit.

>>376697939
t. americunt

>>376698447
Dunno dood, doing mercenaries' things with the MSF felt good.

>>376698490
Yes, PW is bad.

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>>376697385
-superb atmosphere and art style.
-great soundtrack and VA work, especially for its time.
-attention to details & TECHNOLOGY.
-great story, but not super grimdark&edgy like westerners tend to do spy thrillers.
-4th wall breaks.
-"cinematic" game, without sacrificing the VIDEO GAME aspect at all; in fact, it slaps you in the face with THE fact that you're playing a game, all the time, and keeps the gameplay parts 100% realtime and interactive.

>>376699193
not him, but please jump off a cliff into a pool of king acid.

Peace Walker is almost as great as MGS3, and the TRUE "MGS5" game we got and deserved. Damn much fun, way better than "TPP" ever will be.

I got 300h clocked on it on my PS3, and would gladly do a new replay from scratch now.

ZOOOOOOOOOOOM

>>376699274
>way better than "TPP" ever will be.
I don't know if I can agree with that, but I did like PW a lot.

It's a movie game done right. Unlike MGS4.

>>376699274
PW and MGSV are pretty much the same game.

>>376698447
PO is alright.

>>376699274
>Peace Walker is almost as great as MGS3
You can't be serious. I will never understand the fanbase of this game around here.

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>>376699385
They're not.
TPP had chances of becoming the "PW 2.0 HD", but it ended up being a rushed, empty and barren husk of broken promises.

PW at least is a finished game, with fine balance to most things, way more variety to side quests, ironically better Motherbase "system", real weapons, and real Big Boss.

>>376699425
Yes, I can be.
Believe me, before I got the HD Collection, I was sure PW would be just a meh "portable spinoff" like PO was, yet another pointlessly convoluted mini story of an era not needing any explanation.

My expectations were blown totally out of the water.
PW is easily the best Outer Heaven simulator, and shows BB at his very prime. Even if my Alligator is better in all ways.

>>376697385
Liquid being a better master of disguise than Octopus.

>>376699397
PO is the rock bottom shit-tier, and literally retconned out of existence by PW.

>>376699602
>but it ended up being a rushed, empty and barren husk of broken promises.
True, it should have been PW2.0 but I guess the open world ruined it. PW gets away with it because all the missions are linear.

>>376699657
He's just a better master, period.

>>376697385
>Metal Gear Solid 1

This fucking idiot child doesn't even realise it's a sequel.

>>376698912
Not even American, but okay.

>>376698141
It introduced next to no new features over Metal Gear 2. To claim that the earlier, very similar, game is not in the same genre would be the height of stupidity.

>>376699770
The open world does is job well, it's just there to let you choose the infiltration point.

>>376699770
open world with abso-fucking-lutely nothing in it, resulting shitty and forgettable map design, copypaste missions, too much real deal grinding and timers, lack of true end, and annoying MP integration in the SP.

>>376699602
>PW is easily the best Outer Heaven simulator
You mean the simulator where you put 90% of your staff into weapons development and the rest in the kitchen while you take a shit? I guess it works for a portable game, but putting this over MGS3 because of this barebones and simple management gimmick while disregarding the other problems of this game is pretty much an insult to the series in my opinion.

I mean i had fun with the sneaking missions and it has a better rate of gameplay to cutscenes than most MGS, but that's it for me.

>>376699868
What a fucking sperg, he just put the 1 to avoid confusion with the whole series.

>>376699868
This fucking idiot child doesn't even realise it's the first game in the solid series.

>>376699889
t. cunt
Sorry, fixed.

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>>376697385
>you just finished making mgs3
>now fans want you to answer all the questions from mgs2
>do you explain who the patriots are? If so, where do you take their story

Well, /v/, what do you do?

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>>376699926
Reading comprehension much?
I never said it to be OVER MGS3, though it gets pretty damn close in my books. You're also stressing the base management more than necessary, prolly because you want to turn the tables in "your favor" or something.

Like said, I expected something barebones and unnecessary, found a superb, emotional story of BB I didn't know I needed, which also packed some of the best MGS fanservice and MP elements of the whole series.

It didn't help that it's practically fetish fuel for the Cold War /k/ommandos like me.

>>376699923
>annoying MP integration in the SP

How to spot a casual

>>376700194
I fuck up real hard just like rl

>>376700334
I fail to see how disliking the idea of having to put up a honeypot copypaste base online, just so you can try to defend it from 12 year old hacker kids and spend a fortune on Konami's insurance DLC makes me a "casual".

I'd be fine defending my REAL base, from actual random attacks. But where is the base customization we were promised? Oh right, on cutting room's floor, like 50% of game's content and story.

>>376700194
nanomachines and shieeeet

>>376700253
Yes, I misread that part about MGS3. But you are the one that stressed the base management, because you gave no other reason why you think it's good before until this post. And I couldn't care less about this story

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What would be /v/'s perfect MGS game?

>>376700461
>everyone that destory my ass is a 12 yo hacker kid

Never spent a dime in premium currency and I can defend my base just fine, the defender is the one with a huge advantage.
I bet you complain about the game being easy but you never did a FOB infiltration.

Yeah PW is the true MGS5 yeah definitely better than TPP

PW is
>best bosses
>fun gameplay (zadornov has escaped x1000)
>motherbase (not enough people to produce a weapon that you need to win the """"""""BOSS"""""""" battle)

>>376700572
>But you are the one that stressed the base management
I didn't though. As far as I'm concerned, I only stated PW being a "great Outer Heaven simulator", with "better Motherbase system" than MGSV.

But yeah, I did enjoy the base management in PW. Not really at all in MGSV. It's funny how the simple high perspective low-poly model behind a menu screen in PW ended up feeling much more homey and alive than the pointlessly stretched out and barren, yet "explorable" base map in TPP.

>>376700712
You can make bets all you want, but you're losing them.
You also seem to have interesting mental malfunction of creating your own rules what count as "hardcore" or "good game". FOBs are literally stamped on standalone feature of its own, with practically nothing to do with the SP campaign. It being challenging or not has nothing to do with the MAIN GAME itself, which is piss easy, repetitious and quite literal slog.

>>376697939
That translator who did MGS1 later did Silent Hill 2 and 3 by the way

>>376699912
It needed more buildings. I agree that a lot of people miss the point of it, but it's not unfair to say it was too empty and unfun to traverse. It needed fast travel, another faction, and maybe a way to make your own little bases or hubs.

>>376700839
True. The PW's vehicle bosses were real bossfights, and stealthing through them was exciting as hell. The AI fights were more memorable, and finally gave you a reason to dig out and try those heavy lethal weapons without worrying about the game spanking you for it.

I never faced a situation where I could not have won a boss with my current gear. And no, I didn't even ""grind"", like some people call it.

>>376700883
Silent Hill games were dubbed and made in English right from the beginning. If anything, he just helped make TS' script into understandable, more natural English from the get-go.

>>376700865
>I only stated PW being a "great Outer Heaven simulator"
Which means the base management part. Which sucks.

>>376700914
Where are my fucking GTA SA level creepypastas and mysteries video footage *x-files theme starts playing* from TPP?

>>376701031
Dude it was sarcasm, I fucking hate PW. PO and PW were a torture for me to beat

>>376701031
>Silent Hill games were dubbed and made in English right from the beginning

Just because the games don't have Japanese voice acting doesn't mean they were written in English. Just like the Resident Evil games were not written in English. I don't know why so many people think like this.

>>376700865
>creating your own rules what count as "hardcore" or "good game"

You are duing the same.
You said your opinion on the game and I said mine. Eat shit faggot.

>>376698636
>no 30 min cutscenes
insead it has 30 min codec conversations

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>>376701080
>ywn wonder if there's actually a Bigfoot in Afghanistan
>ywn hear there are ruins in Africa that prove they were truly KANGZ and that the patriots covered them up before the Internet age took off

Why are we still here, anon?

>>376700914
I agree on the buildings, you can fast travel using cardbord boxes though.

It was immersive. You truly became Mr Gear.

>>376700194

I see Obama and Abraham Lincoln.

That narrows it down

>>376700648
TPP with a series of GZ sized maps and a good story

Anyone else feel that the fight with Liquid and the vehicle shooting sequence are fucked? It seems like Liquid can just get invincibility frames out of nowhere when attacking him, and the shooting segment feels like you can only hit Liquid like half of the time.

>>376701515

This and a refinement of MGS 4's system, where you'd be one of many factions fighting for control of turf and resources on the battlefield.

It would start simple. You couldn't really compete with the government backed Soviets in Afghanistan, but instead could ally with rebels.

By Africa you'd be operating on your own and in direct competition with other contractors and PFs stationed and working their own jobs in the area,

They wrote it off in the story through a complete copout.
("area ahead under total soviet control."; "Gentlemen's agreement")

Guys, remember how much of a movie MGS4 was? Just imagine if the whole TPP was like hospital prologue, like a movie where you control a character. Like, this there was a possibility that the game would be like that because it's Kojima. What would you feel?

>>376700480
>>376698449
Nanomachines?!

>>376701796
Yeah I don't understand how they went into this game and took a complete step back on that kind of stuff. The only excuses I can think of is it being unfinished and never seeing the light of day before kojima got canned or the dude works in extremes and the backlash of 4 caused him to abandon every idea of that game, which is a stupid decision.

For a story of loss the game sure was hella generous with freebies.

>>376700648
Episodic installments of Snake and Otacon destroying metal gears in between mgs1 and 2.
Each episode is in different areas around the world, different military bases run by different heads, and a metal gear is destroyed at the end of each one, like it should be... obvious story connections between each episode, with the looming man behind the curtain feeling after each episode until the last one. Have him turn out to be a clone of Gene from PO or some shit, I dunno. I think episodic installments would do MGS some good though so stories can be developed, refined, and released one at a time instead of selling out and just creating an empty open world.

>>376701890
I'd probably feel better about the game than I do now.

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>people wanted factions fighting each others

Why? I personally hated that in MGS4. The game become even easier.

MGS4 is the most emotional MG game if you ask me

>>376701890
Thank god it didn't happen.

It played out as a action b-movie in just the right way.

In all later games Kojima went up his own ass and introduced a lot of fruity shit that made the entire franchise tonally confusing.

Also latter games suffered from something that brings down a lot of creators of long-running franchises and that is the concept of overexplaining and drawing ever-confusing parallels between literally everything.

Lucas did that with the prequels, now Scott is doing it with Prometheus/Covenant etc..

Kojima also made literally every character in his lore tied to something, everything is an ironic twist, everything has some stupid convoluted explaination that wasn't really necessary and so on...

>>376702061

Not necessarily. 9/10 you're looking to either kill a target or extract them alive.

Pretty tough to do when you're racing against time to beat a rival to the target, or keeping them safe in a massive crossfire.

Seriously with IH installed and tweaked the way I have it, I've had to redo so many side-op extractions from turning my guys into accidental meat shields.

>>376702309
Wait does IH have diamond dog guys spawn with you now or am I misreading?

>>376698710
OHN streamer?

>>376702309
Dunno, I won't probably like my stealth games to be chaotic.

>>376702420
misread.

I'm saying in MGS 5 you wouldn't have to worry about your own safety so much as your targets in a hot zone.

All sorts of possibilities but even in the shipped game, it's pretty tough carrying a guy out through a squad firing shots at you.
(It's easy as fuck in vanilla of course even if you don't fulton)

>>376701890
It's just odd that people use 4 as the "le moovie!" example, when MGS2 has as much cinematics, even worse even since majority of them are in Codec.

And to answer your question, I do honestly think it'd been better. V's start is a fine example of MODER "cinematic" dedign. It was totally different style in old MGS games, and that style is what I would prefer.

But getting back to the topic at hand... I'd say it was the unique presentation for the time and the voice acting.

When you get down to it, it's a 3D reimagining/reboot/sequel of Metal Gear 2.

Prior to mgs4 was mgs 2 supposed to be possibly a VR? I know now it's a dumb question, but back on the day were there people arguing that none of it was real?

>>376703263
Arsenal Gear is VR imho senpai

>>376703263
It's a video game. Everything is VR :)

>>376703263
There is no way that Raiden actually took down 3-12 RAYs with a stinger missile inside Arsenal Gear.

>>376703663
Arsenal Gear was a VR to test Raiden.

>>376703663
Raiden is a beast of a soldier and RAYs are not that strong.

>>376703663
What about the part where he and snake are talking in manhattan? That entire part seems surreal and snake just vanishes.

The more I ask the more I wish mgs4 didn't exist. Its all moot either way I guess

>>376703263

MGS 1 was pretty much Raiden's VR simulation of the Shadow Moses incident and the catalyst for the S3 field exercise that MGS 2 is supposed to be.

Starting out as a player insert, he starts to question his identity and what's fact and fiction as he's face to face with the guy he was mentally conditioned to act as and basically become.

As GW breaks down when Ocelot hijacks the system with the virus, things go haywire and as I see it,before the Arsenal Gear segment, what Raiden sees wasn't totally accurate. He's been in VR the whole time and he probably still is as you travel through the ship. You can see the corridors lined with holograms as the AI breaks down, and when he climbs to the top of the ladder after leaving Snake behind, he's on the VR stage platform for the RAY fight.

GW then gets completely cut off from JD and the mass produced RAYs go crazy before Raiden gets knocked out and then wakes up on top of the ship with everyone standing roughly where they were, so I think from that point on GW isn't screwing with him and he's not stuck in VR, or maybe he is...

You know the rest.


But with MGS 4 they had to take a big shit on the VR twist to answer questions they honest to god never planned to answer and never had answers for in the first place.

That's why MGS 2's "wiseman's committee" sort of gets transposed into MGS 3's philosophers before replacing them with the fucking FOX support crew.


They REALLY did not want to make MGS 4.

>>376704209
TPP and 4 were my first two games. So I went back and replayed the entire series, I genuinely am a little blown away by how much worse 4 is than the rest of the series, even TPP manages to intrigue me with how I'm unsure if any of that stuff is meant to be left unfinished or not.

That's my opinion of it anyways. Plus I don't know that it's worth speculating about the Manhattan ending.

You can read the original game plan and they've said they had to make changes to the ending because of 9/11

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kojima officially back to metal gear

"j" Joakim=kojima

prepare fo E3 surprize

>>376697385
no tranq pistol

>>376699690
Nope, PO is still canon.
PW, GZ and TPP are non canon though.

>>376704695
Appreciate it either way anon, I enjoy speculating on what the fuck I just played even if I know 4 shit all over the series.

>>376704617
Yes TPP is meant to be unfinished, just like Moby Dick's first release.
Someone think it's a ruse and the epilogue will be released in the future.

>>376697939
FUCK LOCALIZATION FUCK YOU. BASED KOJIMA

>>376700883
>that translator who did MGS1 later did Silent Hill 2 and 3 btw
Oh, thank you, that guy, for naming the cult "The Order." Many thanks for that. I like that guy a lot for taking away from the mystery of the cult by giving them a fucking name.

>>376705005

Jeremy was pretty controversial but side-by-side comparison, the dialogue in some choice areas of MGS 1 flows better and sounds realistic compared to Twin Snakes.

Then you get to MGS 2 and it's just stilted as fuck. Everything Fortune says. The way Vamp acts. "A DUD!".

But that's part of Metal Gear's charm.

By the way Jeremy Blaustein was the guy that handled those localisations.

Yes, Kojima did take offense and fired him when they found out how he changed the script for the localized English release, when they had to go over everything again for MGS: Integral.

I don't agree with quite every change he tried to implement and I'm not 100% with the philosophy he's had, but I can agree with the sentiment that English and Japanese aren't very compatible languages and certain concessions should be made in very specific circumstances to maintain the same intent across audiences, where certain Japanese expressions are just laughable or cringe inducing to an American audience.

You can have both. Sort of like the subs vs dubs argument.

>>376705984
Can you think of some changes regarding MGS1?

>>376706204

This all comes from an interview he did that you can find on Youtube.

The changes are subtle but run pretty deep and CAN dictate the personalities and mannerisms of characters and it CAN dictate the desired performances from the actors.

In MGS 1's case it was mostly about making the intended dialogue sound believable to an English speaking audience but he did take a few liberties for reasons I can't remember off the top of my head.

I think the specific mention of Big Boss being in his 50s when his clones were made was one of them, and it wasn't in the Japanese script.

But also, during the original VO sessions where KojiPro had a couple of Japanese reps overseeing the sessions trying to follow along with dictionaries, the line "Can love bloom even on a battlefield?" was one of the few specific lines the reps caught Jeremy's changes for, and they made them record that per the original Japanese script.

Really you can search up Jeremy Blaustein interview on Youtube (it's something like 10 parts) and then scan through longplays of MGS 1 and The Twin Snakes and note the small differences.

You

yourself

in Zanzibar

Oh and I want to warn about that interview, it turns pretty one sided later on and he kinda starts bitching a little about how it all went down.

Agree to disagree, it's still about respecting the original work and making sure everybody's on the same wavelength when you think you've got a great idea or suggestion to offer up.

>>376701069
>Which means the base management part. Which sucks.
No, and no.
It's the whole experience AND story of BB finally deciding to go all out Che 2, make up his own rules. And the management elements are so trivial and simple, I find it weird that anyone would have issues with 'em.

>>376701129
"that's the joke", mate.
PO is just shit, PW HD is great.

>>376701247
Nope, you literally did the "do THIS to get my acceptance!", all while ignoring the fact that the said base infiltration thing is totally separated minigame of little significance.

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/jeremyblaustein.htm

This is also a good interview with Blaustein.

gimmicks and small little details that actually helped make the game more complex than it really was

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>>376707203
>FOB
>minigame

There's a mission that introduce you to FOBs and even an ending that triggers thanks to them. FOBs are integral part of the main game, deal with it, scrub.

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Raven

and Gray Fox

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>>376709925

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>>376700648
I don't know what my "perfect" MGS game would be, but I think a prequel game where you play as Liquid during the Gulf War would be interesting

>>376701968
This sounds cool too

>>376697385
Hayter

>>376702296
Kojima is a fucking hack, that's why.

childhood is idealizing Kojimbo
adulthood is realizing Yoko Taro makes more sense

>>376709425
No, I won't deal with it.
An MP mode is still an MP mode, no matter how the SP "introduces" it to you. And only autistic, gullible Konami's cocksuckers would ever consider the unreachable peace "ending" to be worth shit.

>>376697385
>shit graphics
>shitty memories about playing the turd as child
>"A surveillance camera???" said by a totally "cool" and "realistic" "soldier", while said soldier sneaks into a nuclear disposal facility
>enemy AI totally retarded, although said enemies are supposed to be genetically enhanced, whatever that is
>sequences, where you not only can't sneak through in this so called "stealth" game, but you will also take damage in any case
>retarded "soldier" wins against a tank in this so called "realistic" game
>silly backtracking

>>376702296
>Lucas did that with the prequels

It's like pottery... It rhymes and breaks.

>>376713204
>so called "realistic" game

Who said it's realistic?

>>376702919
mgs2 was entertaining.
codec convos are also not CINEmatics you fucking retard. Codec convos were the best in MGS2+3.

mgs4 was not entertaining and simply shit. And I guess there was not enough space on this fucking blu-ray disc because there were almost no optional codec convos. The whole game is a joke.

>>376713782
Kojima cocksuckers, who shit on the MGS-gamecube remake, because "muh totally unrealistic to jump on a rocket".

Which implies that it was "totally realistic to defeat a fucking tank as a single soldier" and much more. Otherwise there would be no reason to complain.

At least the remake dialed it to 11 and was actually fun.

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>>376712897
Just admit all you like doing is complaining about shits on the internet.

>>376697385

Nostalgia.

>>376713995
Oh, you are a buttblasted nitendrone.
Twin Snake is either an exaggerated retelling by Otacon or a VR mission.