Late Night Everquest Thread

it created the MMO genre that WoW then took, ran with, and never looked back.
EQ was great because we didn't know anything could be better. Try playing it today; it's tedious and directionless. However, if you spent hundreds of hours in it in its prime (around the Kunark/Velious era) then it's pure, weapons-grade nostalgia.

It was so popular because Sony took a huge dive, risking everything on it, and landed at just the right time for it to work out: People were starting to migrate from Ultima Online, it was the first fully 3D game, it was one of the first genuinely massively-multiplayer online experiences and had a beautifully fleshed out lore and story with zero books, so it was a brand new and mysterious experience.

With the mechanics at the time, it created the perfect conditions within the game for players to successfully connect with one another: You had to be in a guild to do end-game content, period -- guild mechanics were solely based on social structure and management outside of a guild-member pane -- and you had to socially interact with anyone if you even wanted to quest or it would be infinitely difficult. You would have to socialize with players to organize groups, feeling out which roles helped most with the others within your group, and had to find and hunker down in a place to grind for hours on end, as quests were very oblique and only for gear upgrades later on. You spent all that repetitive time cracking jokes, getting to know each other and enjoying each others' company with a side of gaining experience.

>>376589679

To travel anywhere took real time, giving inherent value to being able to travel with any form of ease. This gave tremendous value to spells that eased this process in any way, which players recognized and respected among one another through giving appreciation with currency or item exchanges. There was no market, so the players found the more central location to all zones and created one themselves. Going to the Tunnel was genuinely like browsing through a market, hearing all the folks advertising their wares, asking to inspect folks to see what they might be sharing and getting to know folks in the process. Because zones could be so intricate and detailed and online databases were next to none at the time, you relied on word-of-mouth to navigate -- players would draw up out-of-game maps to memorize places like Lower Guk and share horror stories of their first time venturing into Lesser Faydark. Factions felt more genuine, as Humans could hate Humans but everyone hated Iksar, and there was hardly any incentive for certain races except "because I want to". Want to be the most hated creature in existence? Play an Iksar Necromancer. I leveled a Human Necromancer, scrounging my way to success within the sewers of Qeynos, scraping by with my determination and with what coin people left behind on corpses. When players would die and would be so desperate to retrieve their bodies, they could turn to me and I could help them...for a price.

In short, it was ORGANIC.

>>376589679
>it was the first fully 3D game
No, it wasn't. It was just the first one that got extremely popular.
>first genuinely massively-multiplayer online experiences
It also wasn't.

Everquest wasn't a pioneer, it was an improvement on the true pioneers.

It's popularity comes from the same place that WoW's did (which isn't an accident, since WoW is the spiritual successor to Everquest). It was decently polished, it was well marketed to people who had never played MMOs before and didn't know better, it had a simple and natural reward system in which doing stuff made bigger numbers and bigger numbers made you better. It is a formula WoW perfected half a decade later.

In short, it was casual, well marketed and simple to pick up. Combined with the novelty of a MMO to people who hadn't seen one before, that is the recipe for success.

>>376589975
do you remember, early in the game, there was a Necro spell that allowed you to talk through your skeleton? That ROCKED. I used to set up in the tunnel and have my skeleton crack jokes and be obnoxious -- but people loved it because we were innocent... the griefing, trolling gamer was so far into the future, and we were (for the most part) peaceful gamers back then.

>>376589975

These days, however, you'll find it something you simply can't go back to. MMOs these days have spoiled you, disallowing you to spend hours scoping the chat channels just for a group, which wouldn't even guarantee you a spot in a zone for a camping spot. Everyone wants everything immediately, and you would never get new gear for easily twenty plus levels. Getting spells now would be considered infinitely too tedious. You would have to spend hours doing anything just to make a marginal amount of progress -- we've all become too conditioned to enjoy the journey and are all now too focused on the destination.

That's the biggest these days. Instant gratification, having a visible destination and having something to do once you get there without having to reach far for it yourself. It's okay, as we're all guilty of it. We can pretend to sit back on our heels and enjoy the nostalgia, but it gave us great pleasure growing up and we just need to cherish it and let it remind us of what we truly enjoy these days.

Perhaps another company will make an equally bold dive and be similarly successful. That's why we need to give them our fullest support. But until then, enjoy what you can, but more importantly, with who you can.

>>376590045
You make it sound like people that played EQ were casual trash, when that wasn't the case. EQ was infinitely more playable than others at the time -- Lineage, UO, and MUDs required a hell of a lot of lore, patience, and - even for late 90s games - grinding and waiting around. EQ streamlined all of that. I beta tested EQ at the same time as I was a power-gamer in UO; it made me drop UO like a sack of purple potions.

>>376590109

I fucking loved that shit. I remember even doing that later on in City of Villains, when they gave Masterminds the ability to do the same thing.

I miss things like Eyes of the Beast in WoW - simple, mundane things you can do that serve no purpose but just to have fun.

>>376590045

>>376590045

>In short, it was casual, well marketed and simple to pick up.

Only part I'm gonna' argue with on. If you were any bit serious into EQ back when, you'd know that's a crock of shit.

As far as MMO, I'm excluding things like MUDs, and when I say 3D, I don't mean "graphics that pop out" but a 3D-developed environment that you could approach from 360*, if that makes sense.

But yes, that's actually one fun fact a lot of people don't realize is how many people went on from EQ to develop WoW, which I definitely think helped with that. I just wish people would stop trying to kill WoW and just try something different.

>>376590289
>You make it sound like people that played EQ were casual trash
Yes, that's exactly what I'm implying. EQ is the progenitor of the casual MMO, with little depth and a very pure grinding experience.

Can we all agree on the fact that Sony are the MMO heroes we deserve for the simple fact that they were fine with Project 99's existence and didn't go back on their word once they realized the demand and tried to emulate Project 99's aspiration?

It takes gahonnas in the business to be that respectful to its fans. Even if it's Daybreak Games, I've still my respect.


Except for EQ Next / Landmark. I'm still extremely salty about that.

>>376590434

Well that's where you're wrong, Anon, and I'll respect your opinion (even if it's very, very incorrect).

>>376590497
SOE are very good with coming up with good games and then riding them straight into the ground trying to chase more players.

Everquest 2, Vanguard, SWG, Planetside. All great games at release that got progressively worse with each patch.

>>376590434
Have we really become so jaded? It was a different thing back then -- we didn't see it as a grindfest (which it was), but, like a poster above said, it was much more than a game; it was a social experience that is completely lost in games these days.

>>376589679
>>376589975

These sound like the type of things that seem interesting and fun specifically because they're being described by someone who obviously has a ton of nostalgia for it, but in reality are just tedious and time-wasting bullshit that was a result of archaic technology limitations and game development techniques.

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>>376589975
/consent

>>376590691
I agree with you and I also agree with the nostalgiaposter

>>376590434
>Causal trash

Haha bruh the learning curve of EQ was insanity. I doubt you were even alive in the year 2000

>>376590581

The only two things I will give them props for is the combat system they tried doing, having abilities lead into abilities, which was novel for the time (but poorly executed) and housing.

God, any game with housing it in makes me wet my knickers with fucking excitement.

>>376590621

Unfortunately yes, Anon, we've become this jaded.

>>376590704

>/consent
>Motherfucker drags my corpse onto a boat and drops it into the ocean

The infinity of jimmy rustling my soul entered has yet to return to this plane. Thankfully a GM fished it back out for me. Also

>Ride boat
>Boat collides with another boat
>All the players fall off into the ocean and drown
>tfw collective of people waiting for GMs to fish up their bodies

>>376590542
Asheron's Call is the classic example of the other style of MMO competing with Everquest.

Out of the big three of that generation, EQ, UO and AC, Everquest was definitely the most casual one.

To me, AC was a better experience in every way. More social, more engaging, deeper, felt more like a world and not a game and all in all I had way more fun.

Everquest could never compare to games like Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, Anarchy Online or Dark Age of Camelot in my mind. I could never understand what people saw in Everquest when such wonderful games came shortly after it. Later came SWG, which I consider much more fun than WoW, until it tried to become WoW.

In the end, Everquest-style PvE grindfest won out through WoW and basically killed the other style of MMO, much to the dismay of my and my nostalgia goggles.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwV1j1L9Kgg&fmt=18


last game i really got immersed in

>>376590691

Exactly, Anon.

Great fun on paper, tidus as hell on paper (except for a niche few). Take Eve for example and its dedicated as fuck playerbase. Just a measly few thousand, but man is it still kicking.

Honestly, the last game that came as close as it did for me was Archeage. Excellent fucking managed by fucking idiots over at Trion. Fuck those guys.

>>376590958

>CHING
>CHING
>CHING
>CHWUHOO
>CHWUHOO
>CHING

>>376590909

>In comparison to AC

Okay, Anon. I will definitely give you that I suppose.

Man, would would be the Big 3 these days? WoW being one, who would the other two be? Will WoW live as long as EQ has?

>>376589190
Friend and I are excited about Daybreaks next server release. It will be time locked progression up till LDON and there it will stay. I would have added gates of discord too but ah well I see why they did that as LDON is the last xpac from planes of power era.

>>376591137
There aren't really any big 3 these days, WoW dominates the niche of people who like WoW-style MMOs, and people who don't really like MMOs but like WoW (the kind of people who whom WoW is the first and only MMO or even videogame they've played).

Nobody makes games for the other niches, because there really aren't enough players who have the time and desire to invest in that type of game.

There's EVE I guess, but that's big in reputation but not big in numbers.

Other than that, WoW really stagnated the genre because other companies keep trying to make lightning strike twice and get the WoW audience without realizing that people who play WoW don't want another game, they just want WoW.

>>376591167
I should add it gets released may 24th with I think 12 weeks between each xpac release if anyone cares to play eq again. Eqs still a great game to play casually while you watch Netflix or something since eq has lots of downtime.

EQ did a lot of things right (and a lot of things wrong)

I played EQ recently even. (We beat Rain of fear and CoTF.)

I like the game because most mmos boil down to some shitty piano-key rotation or spamming shit, but atleast with EQ there was always a meta game to play while grinding, like pulling or mez charming and shit. Even soloing (if you could) was fun and daring, not just a slogfest with no danger.

Necro is probably one of the greatest classes ever made in an mmo. Epic 2.5 was sick as fuck, and STILL the top best in slot item after like 10+years. Soloing is fun and challenging when you're mass kiting like 10 things. Plus if you feel like a hoss you can beastmode with your burns and pet cooldowns and try to take a named.

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reminder that project 1999 is a thing. timelocked in velious

>>376591345
>>376591167

Is Phinigel kill? What xpac are they on now?

>>376591402
Heh that's my current server but stopped a little bit ago. They have LDON release soon if it hasn't already.

>>376591402
i think they're almost to GoD?

>>376591502
GoD is after LDON so not quite there.

>>376591350

>tfw drop a nuke or two on a yellow mob
>it immediately runs, pet kills it
>have to sit and regain mana forever
>HNNNNNNNGing the entire time

Being able to drop fat deuces on mobs was THE SHIT. Slowly wittling them down and transferring HP to my pet while tracking debuffs on masses of whites was also radical as fuck. >tfw being the "healer" in Blackburrow with another Necro while also doing so much DPS

>>376591550
>>376591502

So the death bell tolls, then. Unfortunate.

I might go back, but I remember people botting so many areas and it enrages me.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCvFxf41cbU

>>376591345
I just started playing again a couple days ago. I wish I had started off in Neriak instead of that newbie area they have now.

>>376591386
I love project 99 but the endgame situation just kills it for me. One thing I'll give daybreak cred for was the instanced raid bosses as the old system of camping spawns was not enjoyable or fun in any form. Totally miserable if you ask me.

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>>376590958

EQ is the ONLY mmo i've felt powerful in.

Me and my friend used to pull half the entire instance dungeon and pop beastmode tanking and dps cooldowns and wreck shit. This wasn't even trivial stuff either. Cooldowns in EQ are insanely powerful.

Tanks can tank entire rooms, berserkers can AOE the entire room, so combined and while stacking the right cooldowns you got to feel like a god.
Shame more people didn't ever do it, shitters never use their cooldowns.
It felt cool doing stuff no many people could or would do.

WHATEVER YOU DO, IF YOUR PARTY MATE DISCONNECTS, DON'T CLICK ON HIM.

OH GOD, STOP HITTING ME, I'M SO SORRY.

PLEASE RECONNECT ALREADY!

>>376591626
Ah your in luck then as botting is almost impossible on time locked servers. Phinigel and at least the new one coming will be that way. Only one account allowed on them and extremely hard to circumvent with permanent ban if caught.

>>376590909
This. I'm not even sure how anyone can have non-nostalgic reasons to like EQ1proto-WoW when games that are genuinely one of a kind experiences like UO, AC, EVE, SWG are in the genre's history.
EQ has been improved and polished to a sheen countless times in countless clones, while those others haven't had decent modern versions. There was not much you could experience in EQ that you can't experience in a better form today. The genre is dominated by EQ themeparks and nothing else has room the breathe.
It's fine if it's nostalgia, though.

>>376589485
directionless is the charm in the game. everything being player driven

>>376591889
you're wrong man
see my posts >>376591889
and >>376591350

EQ was far from polished, that's what made it great. WoW would have destroyed necro 2.5, and smoothed out being about to feel so powerful and ahead of the curve. That's what made it great, because it wasn't smoothly tuned, it shit on you, and occasionally you could shit on it.

>>376591845

On Phinigel, there was a guy camping the starting area for Necros in Qeynos, with his pet killing the guards and auto-looting a set of items. He'd leave behind some items that'd sell for 1pp or so each, so I made myself filthy rich by waiting for the bodies to pass the loot timer threshold and scavenging off the bodies. Also were folks AFK-botting zones like Soulsek-A. Was pretty bummer.

>>376591563
People used to get mad at me for casting Wake the Dead on dead raid bosses.

>>376589190
people acting like everyone in eq was polite and not rude dicks like they are today. which is bullshit. eq was the wild west compare d to today. anyone remember fansy the bard. any pvp server drama.

>>376592013
Compared to other MMOs released at the same time, EQ was polished to a mirror sheen, dude.

The term "themepark MMO" exists for a reason.

Sure, Everquest wasn't ever as polished as a more modern MMO, but for it's time, it was the most curated and focused experience in a MMO that you could get. It was popular for a reason, and that reason was that it was easy to get into, and the community was easy to get into because it wasn't all that important in the grand scheme of things. It was a casual community where people laughed and played together, and griefed and insulted other people together, but it was never serious. It wasn't a hardcore community like EVE Online, UO or AC, where people become emotionally invested.

In the end, Everquest was always just a game, while other MMOs attempted to build worlds.

But I guess the community at large wants games, thus the success of Everquest and WoW.

>>376592023
Shit dude that blows. At least daybreak was able to stop bullshit like one guy doing 40 man raids with 40 accounts. Shit was crazy when they first started doing TLP.

>>376592013
Sure, if you view it as an unpolished jank themepark and all the hijinks you can do because of that.
That's the thing though, the level of freedom and hijinks possible in EQ paled in comparison to it's competition. What you're describing sounds boring as fuck to anyone who played SWG and it's predecessors. EQ has unarguably the least freedom of the classic MMO's.
As the genre "matured," almost all of that freedom has been killed.

>>376592305

Don't know about you, but Fenin Ro and Rallos Zek were both pretty chill as far as the population went. Sometimes people flat-out wouldn't talk to me or would walk away from a conversation if they didn't like a price I was buying or selling for, but that's to be expected.

Always received tips for buffs and the like though, always had good conversations with folks.

>In the end, Everquest was always just a game, while other MMOs attempted to build worlds.

PLEASE STOP.

You keep making somewhat valid points and then you're saying stuff like this. Anon, just please. Stop.

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>>376591950
>>376592305
>directionless is the charm in the game. everything being player driven
>eq was the wild west

please tell me eq players aren't STILL this delusional after all these years

>>376592582
It's when rudeness becomes the norm instead of the exception that you know a game is shit with a shit community. Reminds me of crap like league of legends. Everyone acts like an ass in that game

>>376592396
>while other mmos attempted to build worlds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAyxdS1SSoo

>>376592765

Ah, yeah. That sort of shit is unfortunate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KUkfYfvZ6M

This guy is fucking great, I love him so much.

>>376590045
>it was casual

What? If you wanted to progress at all in EverQuest, especially in any version of the game up to Planes of Power, you had to not only belong to large raiding groups but devote massive amounts of time to camping gear and items for quests, not to mention the raid bosses themselves. The amount of time required to accomplish anything in EverQuest was insane.

I'd also argue against simple to pick up. The game was exceedingly punishing past maybe the first 10 levels. Not only were spells more and more expensive (and in some cases scrolls you had to camp/farm), but you could lose hours of work on your leveling if you weren't able to secure a rez from a Cleric (who would also likely charge you for the process after you hopefully make it to your corpse without dying again). All of that, and I'm not even getting into the near requirement to find friends and group for the majority of your game time unless you were one of the few kite-friendly solo classes, and figuring out how to progress quests in a time when info/news sites were in fledgling states.

>>376592805
>a video of scripted story/lore
that's not what he meant, anon.
the other games were emergent sandoxes made to simulate virtual worlds with open-ended mechanics. they didn't rely on story or quests to be a world because they physically were worlds.

early mmo's were based on muds, which had 3 types. hack and slash, user-generated, and rp.
EQ focused mainly on hack and slash mud inspiration, while UO took more from user-generated and rp.

>>376593258
it was a pve game against early sandbox pvp games, it was by definition casual compared to it's competition. there's a reason everyone called eq players carebears. obviously it isn't casual today though.

>>376592658
No, I am enjoying my anger and nostalgia.

I may be using hyperbole here, but the point I'm making still stands. Everquest was focused purely on grinding and combat, while other MMO developers were attempting to build virtual worlds. They not always succeeded, but they always aspired to at least simulate a fantasy world. In those MMOs you played just a guy, not a hero, and there were activities unrelated to combat, tons of PvP, more organized than plain griefing or duels, and the developers at least attempted to have player actions have consequences (like the events in Asheron's Call). The original premise of those MMOs was always "live in a fantasy world" and not "get together with a bunch of dudes to smash some boss monster."

Because lets face it, combat is the most boring part of any MMO, people come for the community, regardless of whether it's a themepark or a sandbox MMO, and in the end some MMOs like Everquest form the community around the combat while others form the combat around the community. I vastly prefer the latter.

These days I apply a simple test to MMOs: Is the most powerful item in the game (for a given class if the game has classes) available to any player looted or crafted? If it's looted, that MMO is very likely not worth playing, if it's crafted, then at least its worth a look.

>>376593258
Don't look at EQ through the lens of today's MMO. Obviously WoW and most modern MMOs are more casual than EQ.

But during it's time, compared to its competitors, EQ was the most casual of the bunch, by far. EQ is basically the reason the word "carebear" is applied to MMO players.

>>376593083
Good humor, cute

>>376593436
>other MMO developers were attempting to build virtual worlds
there was an interview with raph koster (lead designer of the original SWG/UO) on youtube where he mentionied they were thinking about what a post-singularity virtual world would be like with those early games. it's interesting to hear that that was even slightly a conscious goal in their minds all along, instead of just making another video game.