Can we just talk about how Akechi have the tons of potential

>>376572731
Can we discuss that he's stronger than the MC.

>>376572731
>intensive purposes

Man, these threads are a diamond dozen.

>>376572731
I absolutely agree. What a fucking vapid end to a well-designed character. The issue with Persona games is that most characters are either one-dimensional in their motives or are too stupid to hold their own adequate stance, unfortunately leading us to believe that the MC's means of 'justice' are clear cut. I'm sick of being exalted in these games and it's even more sickening that the experiences you go through are not meaningful enough to make you evaluate your actions. Persona 5: Adults are evil for the sake of being evil edition

LOKI!
I absolutely adore his japanese voice actor

>>376572731
I don't think the problem with the character is necessarily the parts shown in the game, it's the pieces that are missing. It's very obvious there were multiple confidants that were scrapped, leading to characters like sae and akechi to feel less interesting or half-baked in the game. The problem is that because they had the akechi confidant set up and then had him betray you, removing the confidant makes it confusing because you don't understand him as a character or his motives. I think considering all the factors you listed, he could easily be an amazing character filled with conflicting goals and reactions, but due to the lack of meaningful screen time outside of the plot exposition it feels weak and forced. It's a problem I have with many of the other characters in the game, they have these amazing set-ups and interesting backgrounds that they never capitalize. It would take a lot more than a remake to fix such a glaring problem

>>376572731
There may as well be three or four different versions of him in the game.

That was the entire point.

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>>376574346

>>376572731
Learn to type nigger.

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Why do people think the remakes will change anyone significantly?

Adachi was only a bit more fleshed out in golden but was still the same

>>376572731
>Intensive purposes
This post doesn't pass mustard.

Yeah, they really should have done more with him. The ending should have centered around him, not Yaboloth or whatever the fuck, that came out of nowhere.

>wait all the game for something to happen with him
>when it does, it's disappointing as fuck because he's been antagonistic all the game anyway so him being traitorous has very little impact unlike Adachi's in P4
>expect there to be some other pay off like him perma-joining your party in the final dungeon after having a change of heart
>there isn't one and he's just dead forever
>that's it
They seriously botched the ending of the entire game, but this pissed me off the most. What was the point?

>>376572731

Calling it now,Akechi will obviously have a redemption story spinoff where he'll probably meet Adachi or Sho.

They made the point of wearing masks and having codenames when it doesnt even really matter since information in the Metaverse doesnt leak out into the real world. I was really hoping there would have been another Phantom Thieves group that would have rivaled our own and trying to find out their identities while worrying about them finding yours, but it was just Akechi who got killed by his own shadow in someone elses cognition. Pretty fucking lame.

PERUSONAAAAH

>>376572731
Someone post the pasta.

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>>376572731
I think it's a shame that they didn't play the justice angle straight, and had Akechi be a brilliant extremist trying to stop the Phantom Thieves from brainwashing people.

Might have been a bit more compelling than committing wanton murder to cope with having a dead-beat dad.

It would have been better if he had actually believed in what Shido was doing desu. The whole revenge thing was a little bit retarded.

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OK.

Before we start, can we all agree that initially the villain and final villain of Persona 4 were viewed as underwhelming by the community when compared to Persona 3/FES?

Adachi doing it for "the lulz" didn't sit down well with people initially. Nor was an angry jealous bitch God out of nowhere equivalent to Nyx in either thematically or scale.

But I think over time before Golden or the anime, Adachi softened up on people as a villain. Partly because of how grounded in reality his whole shtick was. He was bored, he had a police job, and he could get away for it for a while to entertain himself. No delusions of grandeur, he hated how society shit him out and he was getting his kicks one way or the other. I really love the line he says when the P4 group asks him why he became a police officer, the reason? So he could legally carry a firearm, that's it.

Golden and the 2 anime fleshed out Adachi out with feeling his spot replaced in Dojima's household by the protagonist but he had enough of a character in the original PS2 game once you thought about what motivated him.

So like when it comes to Persona 5, the game has like 2-3 villains stacking on top of each other for the spotlight and it hurts it. What hurts it even more is they wrote themselves into a corner with the traitor twist and they rode it hard on the super twist that everyone in the P5 group know Akechi was a traitor and they were playing you. Because of how integral the whole thing is to the plot and the flashback storytelling, you can't simply change Akechi's endgame without fracturing key story sequences or else he'll look even dumber for not realizing he's getting played.

So the only thing left they can change is how Akechi meets his end. I don't care how popular he is overseas, Akechi killed the parents of two of your party members. Haru and Futaba are affected directly because of Akechi's subplot with his own father. Adachi didn't kill Nanako, big difference.

>>376577510
Akechi can only be saved by being rewritten.

Even Shido's boring as fuck after you calmed down from his hype boss fight.

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>>376577510
Yeah, admittedly the way P5 handled villains actually made me appreciate some of the things that I initially critiqued about P4.

I preferred how P4 treated people's shadows as a single facet of their personality rather than the core of a completely evil mindset. We already knew that Shido and Kamoshida were messed up, couldn't the palaces have shown more of what drove them to what they've become rather than showing us fifty different examples of why they're evil?

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>>376577510
To continue since I hit my limit. Adachi didn't commit the irredeemable cardinal sin of directly killing anyone you know (sorry Yosuke, I don't really care about your lack of a sex life). Akechi did and he brags about it too.

To rewrite Akechi would be a huge task that they might as well go all out with a Persona 2 style sequel, a retelling and the Hamufi fanboys will get her story arc as a Phantom Thief. I think they should be working with the pieces they have now for a direct what if sequel, Akechi's problems can't be fixed in the base game. Nor can that piece of shit God thing in the end Yabba hold a candle to Nyx. When he was repeating the deadly sins it was Nyx deja vu all over again, without the kickass soundtrack or thematic build up.

Akechi's shtick is he was playing traitor on everyone's group to get his own justice, but the only way to fix him or at least give some credence to his plight would be to introduce more flashbacks like when he first met Shido, how Wakaba's research woke his Persona, a bunch of backstory can be done. But why all the effort when you can play around with this like Persona 2 Eternal Punishment did with its base game. I'd be hyped as fuck for a showdown between Akechi's Phantom Thieves of Justice vs the Phantom Thieves. Everyone wants the same thing, getting to Shido, but you can't agree on the proper methods. Akechi's intellect could be put into him trying to spread discord into the group to poach some members on his side. Just examples of how they could do an Akechi retake.

>>376576640
>expecting a character to join your team after killing a party members parent

i don't think you can criticize anyone on storytelling

>>376578282
You're talking as if that retarded cast didn't ask him to join

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>>376578149
I was honestly hyped as fuck when I got TRUE JUSTICE with the prosecutor's Arcana and she never became a party member. Judgment was perfect to fill in the space of no one having Light/Dark/Almighty skill void that Akechi took when he became a huge crybaby with daddy issues.

Out of all the characters who should have gotten a Persona, it should have been Sae after her palace falls apart. I didn't even get the emotional payoff of Sae getting said change of heart, it was so...underwhelming in restrospect.

Speaking about Shido and Kamoshida, I hated how a lot of the earlier palace villains got written as Shido's money laundering accomplices. Made me scoff, it's a big city, not everyone has to be connected to the big bad.

Like for example, the principal of the school was a lapdog for Shido, but why was he given that position? What debt did he owe to Shido that he allowed himself to be verbally abused? I honestly thought he was gonna get a Palace arc....something that a hypothetical Persona 5: Eternal Punishment type sequel could rectify. Out of all the people we needed to know how they were tied to the SIU Director and Shido, the principal wasn't one of them. Just WTF.

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>yfw the spinoff backstory turn Goro into dindu nuffin like Jun Kurosu in Persona 2

>>376578232
An anon last night made a very good point about Akechi having a very sympathetic backstory, but is very far and away from being sympathetic himself. Yaldaboth might have given him the power, but he didn't even hesitate approaching Shido to offer his services as an assassin. He hates both him and society, so what does he care if he kills people?

Everything is a means to the end with him, even the Phantom Thieves. He shows absolutely no remorse for anything until he's beaten into the ground, and even then it's only because he's crying about how everyone will find out that he's not as special as he made people think he was.

Honestly, I think he's a big casualty of P5's narrative problem. The writing just collapses after Futaba joins, with manufactured drama and people going out of character just to create tension in the group. He wasn't even that important to the story until he's shoved right in!

The game would literally have to be rewritten from the ground up to make Akechi actually deep as a character, which isn't going to happen. Until then, he's just going to be a psychotic murderer that wears a mask on his face.

It's such a stupid character really.

In real life, everyone would think he's an annoying prick. Like imagine you read an internet article about this teenager who thinks he's a star detective. You'd roll your eyes and write a comment calling him a fag. Dude would never get to go on celebrity TV shows and school speaking events. The teenagers at school would especially think he's a dweeb.

Not to mention, it's actually really stupid and out of character to make yourself a local celebrity when you have a past you're trying to be secretive about. All it would take is a couple of buzzfeed journalists to uncover the paper trail to Shido, and that's if the police wouldn't do so first (I'd assume they'd at least be somewhat interested in a 17 year old who's solving high-profile cases by himself.)

His backstory is contrived and didn't make me sympathize with him. People in the series have gone through far much more and not stooped to his level. Adachi, while a twisted psychopath, I could at least see some parts of myself in him (being a lonely young-adult lost in a world that doesn't give a shit about you) so I was able to kind of sympathize with his struggles. But Akechi was just an emo fag.

I can excuse some silly shit in the persona, but at least in Persona 4 the characters tried to be somewhat grounded in reality and people behaved like you'd sort of expect them to. A character like Akechi relies on a fictional world to exist.

>>376574346
Elaborate. I'm interested to hear what you feel on the matter and why they did it that way.

>>376573437
Context needed

>>376579319
>An anon last night made a very good point about Akechi having a very sympathetic backstory

He was born to a single mom.
Oh, the humanity.

Guess that makes fucking murder justifiable because adults r stoopid kidz rule fuck u dad!

>>376572731
Isn't Akechi super popular in Japan?

What's up with that?

I thought he'd be more of the detective rival to Joker's Lupin, but they really downplayed any actual interaction between the two.

Kinda drags both of them down to me. I wanted Joker to be as much of a capable showoff in real life as he was in the OP and start of the game, instead he's just literally nothing outside of the metaverse.

>>376579875
The main cast outright says that he's stronger than any of them including joker, and that the only reason they won is because they ganged up on him.

>There may as well be three or four different versions of him in the game.
I don't know. Probably only two but there's an inconsistent gap inbetween. He's such a mess I don't even know where to begin in order to fix his character.

>>376573437
But he died. With only two persona. And you can solo him with yours.
>>376576323
>Yaboloth or whatever the fuck, that came out of nowhere.
I knew more of these retards will pop up sooner or later.

>>376580414
Maybe in that moment, but endgame joker was able to use satanel to kill a god so

>>376580414
They honestly don't know how strong Joker is, though. They don't have his power. They just know how shit they are.

>>376580109
That's overgeneralizing it.

Japan's foster system is all kinds of fucked up, even worse than the US's. This is due to Japan's social hierarchies, where simply being a bastard child stigmatizes one in the eyes of society. To put it in perspective, if there are some people openly commenting on how much a whore a single mom is here in the US, then imagine most of Japan's society viewing a mom and her child this way, like it's perfectly normal.

That aside, Akechi's backstory isn't simply that. His mother killed herself out of shame for having him, and then he was bounced around in foster homes for years, all the while having to face the scorn of adults for something he had no control over. It's that part that made him hate society along with his father.

It doesn't excuse him taking the very first opportunity to take his special powers and go murder things up, though.

>>376580298
Yeah, he's probably the most proactive Persona protagonist based on his own choices, but I feel like the silent-protagonist approach has never done the relationship dynamics in these games any favors.

>intensive purposes

>>376572731
Why didn't they put this artwork at the credits?

>>376578282
>>376576640
That final rest inside the velvet room, I was prepared to walk up that last set of stairs to see Akechi inside a cell.

>>376580414
Makoto said that and she doesn's know shit

useless slut.

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>>376581474
I dunno about him being all that proactive, since most of what he ends up doing really is self-defense. Meanwhile Piercey and Tatsuya get their jobs done fast and hard and Yu could have freely walked away from the investigation any time he wanted.

Kinda leaves him as only more active than P3MC, which isn't saying much when that guy just drips apathy.

>>376577042
I hole-hardedly agree, but allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go. Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake

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>>376580109
Nobody said he was justified. It's more that he could have been sympathetic if he were handled better. Not in the "yeah I totally agree with him" way, but in the "man that could have been me if my life were that shit" way. I think most people would be all sorts of fucked up if their mom killed themself and their father was a piece of shit that didn't care. Futaba was pretty fucked up just from thinking her mom killed herself two years ago.

I think most can agree that his biggest problem is that the best parts of his character, the parts that would have sold him as a villain, were completely underdeveloped and downplayed. He was a lonely, pathetic kid filled with nothing but hate for the society and people that fucked him over, and a need to be accepted by someone. But by then he'd already fucked it up, and it was too late for him to even be truly accepted by the outcasts of outcasts. Yaldabaoth put him on that path and I feel like that should have been played up more as well.

I think it would have been cool if he came back and Yaldy possessed him for the final battle. He's the worst possible result of the society that Yaldabaoth claims isn't worth saving.

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here senpai a lams

have a fresh akechi

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>>376582714
>They blatantly show the killer has a beaked mask
>Later they don't even hide that Akechi's default mask has a beak

>>376583019
To be fair, it's a completely different mask. One's mosquito or tengu based, and the other is a sticc-Berserker helmet.

>>376583019
honestly I couldn't tell it was beaked since you're looking at it head on and can't see it point outwards very well.

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>>376582714
Such a shame he wasn't the final boss. Yaldabaoth was awful imo.

>>376583019
My real problem was with the pancake shit because I noticed right away. That and knowing someone betrays you ahead of time, gee I wonder if it was the detective who only just joined who's been on our tail this whole time? Would he have any reason to betray me?

>>376580771
That's after drawing power from a twitter poll that didn't matter at that point in time.

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We didn't see a body, so he could still be alive right?
RIGHT?!

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>>376586007
tfw don't want goro to be redeemed so his character won't be ruined farther but want him back in the party because he's 2good

>>376586098
How can I hate anyone who uses a laser gun and a FUCKING LIGHTSABER!?

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>>376586238
I loved every second of having him in the party knowing he was an evil piece of shit. I love him but if they really redeemed him and acted like it's all okay it would ruin him.

>>376586380
I don't really see how you can really redeem him, he was murdering people for his own gain and then sold his services for being able to do so.

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>>376586007
Hope he get a new costume

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>>376587197

I just want to main Loki...

>intensive purposes

Is this bait?

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>>376588064
Why the artbook doesn't have Goro's Berserker costume anyway?

What'll do they do with him for Arena? It will probably be focused entirely on him right?

The most obvious thing is that this guy is shady as fuck for most of the game, so how could anyone have been surprised or taken aback at all when the truth was revealed? It doesn't make sense at all. With Adachi, that was actually shocking because he went from being a friendly, clumsy, comic relief character to being a psychopath. That worked, this one didn't at all. Never been so underwhelmed by a 'twist'.

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>>376588501
Not really. It's hard to slap Goro's story on this spinoff when you have the other bigger plot to introduce P3 or P4 characters.

However, it's possible to focus on him in the re release like P4G or have his own spinoff DLC

>>376589365
I feel with just how open they left it, without a resolution, bringing him back would make him the center of the story, like how Sho and Labrys were for the previous ones

>>376589470
I mean it wasn't *that* open and not that unresolved, they just didn't literally show the bullet going through his head and the corpse.

>>376581825
If he actually was apathetic, he would have died a long time ago.

>>376589535
I mean that resurrecting him however they do it will have to be the central part. It can't be like Adachi coming back which is simple enough.

And with how popular he is, I feel like he'd be the main guy, or villain.

>>376581214
>The Answer
>Junpei says that he doesn't think Aigis could beat Yukari

Bullshit, I can just fuse a Persona that's immune to wind. It's funny how utterly ignorant all the non-Wild characters in this series are in regards to Wild Cards. Even if the protagonists don't explain how their powers work, you can still more or less take a guess based on what you see them do.

It feels like they tried to remake Adachi with the twist that the main characters figured him out this time. What they should have done is him actively opposing them in the palaces, much like the rival police detectives do in Kaitou stories.

>>376578021
The actual high point was the reveal of fake Igor and having to save your team inside the velvet room for me personally.

>>376589770
I had a moment kind of like this in the casino one on one fight, I had a rangda so I didn't give a shit and blew through that without breaking a sweat and here is everyone worrying over me. Like guys of course if we're sending in someone to 1v1 anything its Joker

>>376589770
They don't even comprehend the velvet room while they are in it

>>376580414

Is the same thing as adachi, the mc uses the the wild card to form bonds and wield multiple personas, changing himself to handle all kinds of situations, adachi and akechi never formed bonds with anyone, they just focused their powers on a single persona, gaining tremendous power, but losing all the versatility the wild card offers.

>>376590303
The reason Takaya, Adachi and Akechi are so strong is because they're "true" to themselves. They have no delusions about themselves. They have their facades, but those are deliberately put together. Their self awareness is at their maximum, and they have nothing to hide, not even their own Shadows. According to Jungian psychology, being able to acknowledge and accept your shadow is the key to strengthening your sense of self and personae.

It's not actually healthy, of course. Takaya is so indifferent that he's literally incapable of functioning in society without Jin. Adachi is an empty, apathetic shell of a man. Akechi was so far gone that he just didn't give a shit about anyone but himself. And they all fully embraced those aspects of themselves. And as a result, their Personas turned out to be really strong.

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Pancakes

>>376591069
Honestly wish I hadn't noticed. At least then I would have the possibility of being rused by the game by assuming that the detective who just joined would be too obvious of a traitor for it to be him

>>376591134
This, it wasn't even hidden. Second he opened his mouth about pancakes it was blatant he was the villain.

>>376589770
Thinking Aigis would lose is dumb in the first place. Shinji's one of the strongest actual fighters of the group, and he still died to a single gunshot. What do they think they're gonna do if Aigis just starts firing her fingerguns at them?

I mean she was able to sweep her hand once and shoot off the crucifix arm/leg locks for every party member in that one movement before. She's got superhuman precision and at least 10 guns to fire at once.

>>376586537
Thats the point. Given what hes done, you cant really redeem him. He's too far gone.

>>376591295
Akihiko can dodge bullets. He dodges Aigis' bullets in the opening cutscene. The entire team is stronger than Shinjiro was. Also, Shinjiro was covering for Ken at the time.

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>>376572731
Can we talk about how Joker was seemingly going to be the Magician arcana but just HAD to go way of the fucking Fool again, and how the only time in the series we've had a non Fool was Door-kun who was still Fool?

This series is so fucking boring with its writing

>>376591451
No one starts out as a Fool. The power of the Fool is always given to you by another. It's granted to you from the moment you awaken to your Wild Card ability.

Every Fool probably had a different Arcana at first but their Arcana was changed after they were granted their power. Except Elizabeth, who had no Arcana.

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>could have something interesting with Joker's "death" by Akechi
>turns out it was just Mary Sue Makoto's brilliant plan
>could have had something interesting with Ryuji dying
>nope, he just got knocked a few feet away from the Diet Building
>could have something interesting with Akechi
>nope, a dumb thing to catch him on as well as being completely unsubtle with no time to settle in to appear non-threatening instead
>could have had an older persona user with Sae
>nope, just a free taxi ride back to Sojiro's
>could have hard bosses
>could have had decent villains
>could have had an interesting game

>>376591357
Akihiko doesn't literally move faster than bullets though, and would die if he was shot. Aside from the one opening (which are all for style anyway), the only time he does anything about guns is some single mexican thug pointing a gun at him and being slow doing so.

Meanwhile Aigis took out armed terrorists with a shirt button.

>>376591794
>could have something interesting with Joker's "death" by Akechi
>Implying it wasn't
I loved hearing about the plan it was actually rather slick

>>376591939
Personas enhance reflexes. And Personas can tank guns anyway.

>>376591134
I got the feeling he was gonna be the big bad just by his freakin name and associating it with Adachi

I mean sure I was hoping for a twist but in the end well...

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>>376592047
The false death was so uninteresting. The only neat part about it was the sort of meddling disbelief if they had the balls to do an elaborate fake death or actually, even temporarily, off Joker. Instead a couple of minutes later Ryuji goes "nyeheheheh" and a bunch of unsubtle flashbacks tell the player already that this dumb mary sue strategist came up with another strategy that barely had anything interesting going on. Akechi's already a bonafide fuck up by that point so the fact that he fell for it surprises no one in particular.

>>376592083
That's never been shown with either one of those.

>>376592225
In a drama CD, the protagonist has Thanatos tank missile fire from an assault helicopter.

>>376586537
>>376591347
How the fuck they gonna introduce him back in Arena or other spinoff? Redeeming himself is the only way, I can't see himself playing psychotic anymore in those spinoff after his sacrifice.

>>376592389
Amnesia maybe?

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>>376591939
>Aigis took out armed terrorists with a shirt button.
How?

Why?

>>376586007
Goro wakes up in the Velvet Room proper to carry out loose ends the MC can't deal with at the moment to redeem himself in Crimson

>>376592580
She flicked the button at them and knocked them out with it or smacked the gun out of their hands by doing it or something like that. It was goofy.

And she did it because terrorists were hijacking the plane and so they called in the Shadow Operatives to deal with it. This was also goofy.

>>376585285
It's funny because it's literally true

>>376592785
Akechi actually kills Joker but gets dragged into the Velvet Room to rectify everything and restore Joker's soul, tries arguing with the Phantom Thieves but only gets Mishima as a Navigator and the journey to save Joker is basically the Hazama's chapter of P5

>>376592559
Too cheap.
Try the more cheaper one : I expect he had amnesia after he awaken his first Persona and become psychopathic as a result thanks to his own berserking power.

I can't believe plebs literally don't understand that Goro is Garma to Shido's Char.

>>376590106
That scene really annoyed me. Its so dumb that the 3,4,5 casts act like the protagonist being able to switch between different Personas is no big deal and never considered how they're getting their new Personas from.

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>>376592941
>Gets Mishima as a permanent party member you can't take off the team
Even Akechi doesn't deserve this

>>376573710
Do you actually feel like the injustices the adults were enacting were truly outside of the realm or reality >

because I don't...

>>376593268
They did consider it a big deal. That's why the protagonist is always considered the strongest. Mitsuru even states "The power of Persona is deeper than I thought. We even have someone who can switch Personas in the midst of battle."

>>376574214
I agree with this. The fact that we got 4 akechi's is the point of the character. Also lmao, what kind of critique is "THEY DIDN"T TELL ME HOW TO FEEL ABOUT A CHARACTER". Figure that out yourself dumbass lmao.
Anyway for '"all intensive purposes", there were a lot of gaps that needed to be filled for us to truly understand which of his motives were dominant. They'll probably fix this in Crimson or w/e, by adding some more cut-scenes with Akechi. I hope they don't just make everyone forgive him, he would have to earn that and definitely still get punished.

>>376592803
Was that in arena?

Heard there were goofy things to be expected in that one.

>>376593268

The cast of P3 actually is amazed by the protag being able to change personas, and the velvet room being revealed to them in the answer makes Yukari a little annoyed over the fact that the protag never shared that secret with them.

P4 is the weirdest, no one ever mentions or cares about the protag using different personas, you can max adachi slink near the end of the game, and when you summon the persona of the murderer who almost caused nanako to die no one says anything.

P5 at least has morgana paying lip service to your power to absorb shadows as new masks.

Is there a reason to max all confidants or is it just fusion exp and whatever perks they give

How would everyone feel about them adding an Episode Akechi where Akechi awakens to his power the year before, gets led by Igor (or Fake Igor if he was replaced that early), and makes a name for himself targetting Mementos and getting in touch with Shido for contract work where he learns more about mementos from researchers and cops and eventually has to betray anyone who gets too close or disagrees with Shido while grappling with being alone, seeking approval, and failing to discern what he really wants and what the true goal of his journey should be? It would mainly be story beats and dungeon crawling. No time management or confidants. Given how popular Akechi is I can see this being something they could do without "saving" him.

>>376581214
>>376581591
>>376580702
It took all of you to beat him canonly, reguardless of how you actually fought him in the game battle. That's just common sense.

>>376592192
Honestly the plan was so incredibly stupid in hindsight.

>>376579435
>Paper trail

What paper trail, genius, Shido wanted literally 0 to do with them and it's why his mother ended up killing herself. Meanwhile an entire section of the police force and it's leaders, including the special division leaders, are at Shido's beck and call so when Shido takes interest in the Murder Middle Schooler that's it. No digging. No connection. You aren't supposed to feel sympathy for him, you're just supposed to feel bad that a kid could actually get turned in to such a psycho.

>>376594174
What pisses me off about this sort of stuff is that Joker is basically heralded as the madman to save humanity's souls by 2loli but there's no way he could have done shit without his party

>>376593378
Their motivations were.

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>>376594364
>You aren't supposed to feel sympathy for him, you're just supposed to feel bad

>>376594372
That's the same for everyone. They all start as 0s with really weak initial Personas. They never would have survived without their party. Even if they're the most powerful Persona Users by the end of the game, at first, they're really the weakest. Their initial Personas aren't very strong and are practically useless without Fusion, and having an extra Pixie or Nekomata isn't really gonna help you much in the long run.

Would Shido have been a better villain if he had been having Akechi kidnap shadows from Mementos to be his guests on the ship as a way of subtlely controlling his "allies" and/or having them in a convenient place for Akechi to finish them? The 5 letters quests made those cognitions really human-like and it was weird that while most cognitions are flat like Puppet Akechi, they were actively flirting, boasting and wanting tattoo art. Would have been better for them to be hostage or in the palace for protection and be the ACTUAL Shadows.

>>376594497
They really weren't

Did anyone really care about the SIU director's scenes or expect him not to die pointlessly?

>>376594787
Him and the principal seem entirely pointless to the game honestly. It's jarring how they get so much screen time, like hashino thought people couldn't stand not knowing how the villains were acting without you around. It's the same with akechi and shido talk near the end, it just felt like way too much background info for no purpose

>>376572731
>For all intensive purposes
You fucking dumb cunt.

>>376594372

Well, if your autism is high enough you can solo the game from day 1, it was possible for 3 and 4, and I believe it can be done on a fresh save file.

I believe it was necessary letting your party members dying on purpose, since the game wont allow part control in the earlier party of the game.

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>>376594364
>You aren't supposed to feel sympathy for him, you're just supposed to feel bad

>>376580213
Fujos

>>376595113
It would have been better to have something more subtle. Like when Adachi waited in the fog for the dead bodies to appear and got frustrated. You knew someone was there, but you didn't know who.

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>>376594364
>You aren't supposed to feel sympathy for him, you're just supposed to feel bad

>>376595701
I'm still a bit confused on the Change of Heart. Most villains repented entirely and became emotionally unstable at their actions, though maybe it's because we didn't see Kaneshiro, but his Shadow was calm about the whole thing, preferring his palace to disappear than be killed by Shido's lackey. So how did that affect him in the real world? Was he just "welp time to fold them" or an actual weepy mess like everyone else?

And additionally if the change does bring such a drastic shift, why didn't the loss of mementos not affect people more than "ah shit, there's rumors Shido is bad"? I get that the palaces were abnormal and thus these Shadows were sent back to Mementos as prisoners to "repent" back into society but it feels sloppy to make every victim of your heart stealing to turn into a spineless slug and then leave society barely different with the same methods.

Also was Mementos just focused on Shibuya and Tokyo or did it affect the whole planet like The Dark Hour? Is there potential for other persona users to notice?

>>376596214
It'd be inconvenient if a certain bowlcut, robot, or elevator attendant learned what was going on.

>>376596214
>did it affect the whole planet like The Dark Hour?

How does that even work when you take time zones into account? It's weird imagining it happening during the day time on the other side of the world.

>>376596650
The Dark Hour was a time/space anomaly. It falls completely outside the normal rules of reality. In a sense, it doesn't really happen. No evidence of it exists.

To put it another way, it only exists if you're able to witness it. It's like a Schrodinger's Hour.

>>376596650
It's been a while so I may remember this wrong, but I don't think the time is the important part of the dark hour. It was created when the lab went haywire, which just so happened to be midnight. I imagine no matter the place it would look the same, since I think the dark hour is it's own separate reality linked to the real world, similar to mementos or the TV world. All of it ties together with collective unconscious as a separate but connected reality

>>376596650
Well it would happen at midnight, but I imagine it would sweep around the world at a consistent pace. That means it would travel around the world at about 17.5 mph or .3 mps and would stretch out for a bit over 1000 miles all at rhe equator. North and south pole fuck up stuff because you could end up with something like a plane frozen in time to some degree almost perpetually, and electronics can't work in The Dark Hour (planes don't fall out of the sky though).

I imagine the clocks that SEES uses is a more precise geolocation clock set in reference to The Dark Hour. It just following time zones opens a lot of weird questions. And my head is already hurting.

>>376597312
17.5 miles per minute*

I really need to sleep.

The Dark Hour was purely a perception deal. Only those who perceive the Dark Hour can experience it. In places where there's no one capable of perceiving it, it may as well not exist. The logic of how it works is irrelevant because to most of the world, it simply does not happen.

>>376597490
Is there any reason to believe that Persona users only exist in Japan?

>>376597602
There aren't enough of them for any inconsistencies to be an issue.

>>376597490
Here's a thought exercise though. Assuming that The Dark Hour does indeed move around the globe and isn't an event that occurs for one hour concurrently around the globe that happens to fall at Midnight in Japan, let's say a plane is directly overhead of the North pole. Assuming you are offset enough from the North Pole to be able to walk at a comfortable pace and still stay entirely within The Dark Hour permanently, what would you observe when looking at where the plane is when observing it over the North Pole given that it cannot move in The Dark Hour even though time is perpetually moving in the outside world as necessitated by the shift of The Dark Hour?

There has to be some time shenanigans to actually explain The Dark Hour though and there really isn't enough to go on besides it reaching Okinawa and presumably the whold world given the influence of eradicating the human race.

>>376573437
Well yeah, Holy Grail cheated and awakened Akechi like 1.5 years before he awakened Joker. If he weren't level 99 by that time, he'd be a fucking scrub. Also, he got a hax limit breaker ability for no reason other than to screw Joker over even further.

>>376584315
You know what the worst part is? The part with Haru's family being "all about betrayal" or whatever. OH I WONDER COULD THEY BE TRYING TO MISLEAD ME

>>376597925
It's closer to an alternate dimension, or a time slip. Tartarus doesn't even exist in our reality. When Fuuka was trapped in it, she literally stopped existing. It doesn't operate on Earthly rules so applying human common sense to it is pointless. It operates purely on perception. The fact that it ignores Daylight Savings Time is proof of that.

Let's say you experienced the Dark Hour in Japan and teleported to America somehow. Most likely, it would be midnight there as well, as if you skipped forward in time. Because the Dark Hour and reality are essentially separate dimensions, what goes on in one doesn't really affect the other, unless Persona Users are involved.

>>376598405
I dind't even notice that to be honest. The whole "Okumura will do anything to get ahead" was just shit her dad said and she clearly wasn't for it at all.

>>376572731
>Who the fuck is the real Goro Akechi?
There isn't one. He's a product of society and his heart is chained down by his past and the views of those around him. The artbook talks about how his personas were designed around this idea.

>>376573437
Before Hassou Tobi?
Siegfried.
Or Max Strength bonus.
Or fucking Null/Reflect Phys.
What a shitter.

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he looks like a dude version of yukari

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Reminder to EVERYONE here that Goro's voice is god tier in both English AND Japanese.

Who could have expected Robbie Daymond, fucking Prompto and Tuxedo Mask, to have such an absolute madman's voice?
English: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmWhv6XuVqU
Japanese: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4kIZ20FbpU

>>376600780
>Reminder to EVERYONE here that Goro's voice is god tier in [...] English
How can people believe this. That effeminate bullshit is probably the worst performance of everyone in the main cast but Haru.

>>376582219
The "I did everything, just so someone would accept me" line when your getting rank 10 should've been the focus of his character. Showing that everything he did was just to finally feel accepted somewhere

>>376601124
Did you not listen to his breakdown scene? He got the tone right, and he pulled off the laugh during the Loki summon scene.
>probably the worst performance of everyone in the main cast but Haru
That's harsh. Haru is the worst no doubt, but Goro comes nowhere close to that. Only Futaba does, in certain scenes. Hell, even fucking Ann's voice is starting to grow on me now.

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>>376586007
>kill him
>never deliver the calling card
>he shows up and busts you anyways

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>People missing the point of the character

Akechi has exactly the amount of depth and relevance that he should have. He is presented as essentially another party member, another outcast with the appropriately tragic back story and conflicting motivations, but he never gets fully fleshed out. But that's because there's nothing else to flesh out. He's somewhat hollow in comparison to the rest of the cast, a facade of complexity. He's a fake.

He's not a member of the Phantom Thieves, he's a traitor. He's not a detective, he's a fraud. He's not the master manipulator, he's a hired gun. And he's not Joker's rival, he's a footnote that got played from the beginning.

Even his costume and codename make it abundantly clear, he's a phony in all things.

>>376572731
>For all intensive purposes
Stopped reading right there

>>376602372
What?

>>376602936
>He's good because he's shit on purpose

They literally made a rival character chosen to be the antithesis of your character by the god that gave both of you your powers in a game that was meant to determine the fate of humanity, with him being a detective and you being a thief.

And then he doesn't fucking matter and is just shit and they waste the entire thing because wow what a great red herring that is!

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>>376603306
>He's less important than I thought he was, that makes him shit

>>376600780
>couraggeous

>>376603393
Making his role minor and motivations shittier doesn't suddenly make the character better than if they were the villain they were made out to be.

I don't get what the fuck your logic is in thinking he's better for being less of a character. That's just shock value for shock value's sake.

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>>376603596
A character having a minor role doesn't make them shittier, it makes them have a minor role. You're acting like your assumptions on how the story was going to go not coming to fruition is some kind of objective flaw.

His motivations aren't shittier. He's a self obsessed sociopath who is obsessed with relevance because he never had any. Everything with his backstory lines up perfectly, he just never formed anything positive out of his experiences because he's not meant to be sympathetic.

And no, it's not shock value for shock value's sake. Again, you are so laser focused on what YOU thought the story was going to be that you're ignoring everything that it actually was. Akechi is an imaginative villain used in a really unique way that plays into some of the best moments in the game. To make him just another generic rival with some overblown sob story or maniacally evil master plan, would completely ruin the character.

>>376604404
>with some overblown sob story or maniacally evil master plan, would completely ruin the character.

Except that is what happened

>>376602936
Except that falls flat when the game tries to make you feel sorry for him when he literally just info dumped his sob story 2 mins ago and then tries to give a generic

>just go and leave me while i hold x off

>>376604575
Not really, we find out he had a shitty past, and then became a shitty person. There's no redemption in that.

His plan was foiled from the moment he enacted it. There's no overwhelming threat in that.

>>376604404
Yeah, used for a great, interesting purpose such as a red herring nobody sub-boss for the big bad that's not the big bad, seen a whopping 3 times after he turns.

Also you're the one hung up on apparently what I thought, but what I thought was his role was shitty and his character was shitty, so no fuck I'd rather he be something different because then it'd hopefully be better. Like seriously, that's such a backwards way to try and deflect from the argument or discredit it.

>>376572731
Agree. Akechi is the weakest part of p5 desu.
Pretty predictable, read like shonen manga try 2deep4you. Being persona series that is expected anyway.
Hope they put same effort to smt.

>>376604762
Again, you keep calling it a red herring, but it fits that description in what way? Do you even know what a red herring is? He was never billed as the big bad, Shido was set up from the beginning, and the director makes direct references to Goro working for him in such a way that you understand that even before knowing who they are. And it's not like he's unrelated, he's a direct link to Shido. It's like saying Kamoshida is a red herring because he's a villain that isn't the big bad, it doesn't make a lick of sense.

>>376572731
He is unironically my favorite Persona character. His slightly autistic behavior coupled with his smart and mature attitude is just too likable. Loved the scene where he eat that spicy takoyaki. He is the perfect balance between a goofball you like to make fun off and a reliable guy who gets shit done if needed. It really is a shame his writing was all over the place.

>>376604989
Like hell he wasn't set up as a potential big bad. He's the one who had the power, he's the one who contacted Shido (not the other way around), he's the only one who could make any of the plans occur, and then later on it's revealed that he's the only other chosen one of Yaldabaoth.

But lol he just doesn't even matter who cares just have him die the first time he confronts the party after a sob story infodump, boss battle, and heroic sacrifice redemption crammed into a 20 minute segment (counting battle time).

He gets boiled down to being a fucking plot device for use by the villain instead of a character, and wrapped up like a fucking side character.

>>376605460
That's still not what a red herring is. Characters pretty clearly talk about how he isn't the big bad. He died after being revealed to the party at the end of a dungeon long sub-plot. He didn't get a redemption, he had an explanation for his motives, first from a position of power, then a slightly more sympathetic lamentation of his fate, same as literally every single other boss in the game. Being used by the main villain isn't a negative element to his writing, that's stupid. and he was wrapped up like a side character because HE WAS A SIDE CHARACTER.

>>376605981
Nigger, he's the only one with access to the metaverse that made any of that possible in the first place for Shido, who caused all those incidents and he got less closure than Principal Kingpin.

Nevermind you're just flat out wrong on the other shit. They talk about him not being the big bad? Maybe after he's, I don't know, dead, but I don't think he was out of the question given the group didn't even know he was behind the rampage incidents or psychotic breakdowns until minutes before he dies. And like hell he didn't get redemption, they fucking ask him to join the party. The party where he's personally killed two different member's parents. Then he heroically sacrifices his life to save the party while supporting your cause. And they lament the whole incident.

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Jesus Christ, seriously? there's people right here, right now that actually sympathize with Akechi?
My god, this retard's whole motivation was "i wanna be recognized by daddy, i want him to praise me and tell me im not a mistake".
Is that motivation enough to excuse murder, mental shutdowns, being psychotic and having awful fashion sense?
Not even his death wasnt all that selfless as to justify the fact that he was trying to murder you during 3 different boss fights.

>>376604721
Yet he had a sob story and had a retarded overly evil complex plan that wasn't thought through once.

The PT even tried to have him redeem himself so don't give me that bs as if the game tried to paint him as pure scum when they even gave him that generic redemption "dying" out in the end.

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>>376572731
How he should be presented in the sequel or spinoff? Mopey and brooding? Stoic and apathetic?

Why did Atlus make Goro's death so ambiguous?

>>376608948
I want him to be a little distant but not too brooding

>>376606560
Yup. Literal 80's cartoon villain, written so that even 6 year olds can understand he's awful in every way, and there's still idiots here who try to say that he's actually less evil than the phantom thieves.

Remember that in all the shitposting threads, this is who we share this board with.

>>376591794
>t.Goro
The ruse was the real twist and the best part of the game

>>376606445
Akechi was just Shido's puppet, man.

>>376573634
hey look, it's a doggy dog world and if OP didn't make this thread, somebody else would

>>376608948
I prefer he's turned into quiet and observant. Due to the massive errors and mistakes he made in the main game, he carefully plan his actions this time

>>376579286
>>376578232
>>376578021
This nigga. Considering how much P5 seem to indirectly reference P2, I wouldn't be surprised if it was initially designed to be a duology.

Problem is, it wouldn't happen since the og director has bailed out.

>>376572731
You'd be retarded not to realize Atlus is going to milk him for a spinoff / DLC ala The Answer.

>can recruit demons in place of party members
>has a baller Persona 5 they use for all of 5 seconds
>dies off-screen

DLC BAIT

>>376606560
I only sympathize in the sense that he was set up to be a decent character but then got fucked to hell and back for the sake of a really awful "twist".

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>>376572731
Just wiped one too many times to Okamura for my tastes. Wiped once by getting punched by robot. Wiped again since I thought Big Bang Challenge would be physical and Reflect Physical would wipe its face. Wiped once more because I missed Ryuji getting hungry because a cockroach ran over the screen and near where I was sitting, so Swift Strikes came short of the kill. The fact that retries keep my time on the save and that the bastard gets assassinated for all my effort just makes me salty. I'll probably run it again tonight. Since Akechi's my prime suspect I can't wait to beat the shit out of him. Would this fight happen end-game? I read I can completely cuck him with Toot Toot.

I think I would've liked Akechi more if Adachi didn't exist. They're both extremely similar people: losers who aren't really anything special who hold a grudge against the world. When they lose they start whining about friends in the game's hamfisted way of showing that friendship is the true power, yadda yadda.

But despite him appearing first I think Adachi is superior just because he has more understandable motives. I think we've all met people like Adachi, and we know people who would basically use their powers like Adachi did. I don't think anybody like Akechi exists, unless we're just talking loony bin people.

>>376572731
You know who Akechi reminds me of, kinda? Don't read this if you haven't beaten Danganronpa 2:

Peko Pekoyama. He has her whole slavish devotion thing, except while with her it's in an individual, with him it's revenge. Her whole character is basically about how human beings are never just "tools", you're always responsible for your own actions.

>>376609573
Considering how much of /v/ went gay since 2012 it's no surprise. Gay people live off high-octane homolust, just like they show on anime.

Wasted Potential: The Character

This thread is pent up autism. Just husbandofaggotry in disguise

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>>376588064
Is that leeches on both of his eye?

>Jap release spoilers hit /v/ and there was a bunch of fake spoilers.
>One was that Ann was the traitor
>Completely off /v/ from the US release to a day or two ago when I beat it except for a few browses when I was near the end
>Spent 70% of the game thinking Ann was the traitor for sure
>There was a thread up about a week ago saying "Why did the party forgive Makoto so quick"
>Thought this meant that she was the traitor and the party forgives her
>Near Sae's palace she is acting strange so this just reaffirmed me
I didn't even suspect Akechi and felt stupid when it was him

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>>376612951
I guess a spoiler heavy thread was the worst place to seek validation.

>>376579582
He's a wild card with no real face, just. like. Joker.

>>376572731
>Who the fuck is the real Goro Akechi?
There's no Goro Akechi. His past, his name, and his backstory are fabricated entirely. The guy you've seen and interact in the game until his "death" is nothing but impersonator of a fictional entity.

>>376573437
>Stronger than the MC
>Can't summon a version of Satan to kill a god

Pfffft, yeah right faggot. I do wish we could get loki as a persona though.

>>376572731

>Your biggest opponent in public who questions your actions and makes you doubt whether or not you're doing the right thing
>Is also a psychopath murderer so who gives a shit what he thinks LOL

He should have been two different characters.

It takes a lot of the nuance away from the justice aspects of the game when your opponent is a hypocrite and a killer

>>376576840
It should have had some MP system like MGSV had with the FOBs.
I kinda think they had that in mind since the naming your group is kinda overplayed, maybe they scrapped it. Maybe in P5 Crimson.

Having to invade other player's Palaces and beat the shadows/personas they put on defense would be damn fun between missions than just grinding mementos.

>Only an "Ace Detective" because of the metaverse to begin with
At least Adachi was a real detective

>>376618186
I am curious just how bad Adachi would troll Akechi if they had ever met

>>376593287
Akechi is a psychotic murderer because his daddy doesn't love him and Mishima is a future murderer because he's a retarded autist. They are made for each other.

>>376618186
Adachi is actually more competent about detectiving then the other 2 ace defectives.

>>376606560
>feeling Pity for the guy's life is excusing the wrong doing
No.
I feel sorry that he had a life that shit before powers, but feel that his actions once he got his shit was stupid and not justifiable.
I enjoyed the moment when he was faking being a decent person jn the party and him being a party member, but don't like or can understand his actions in that plot to kill his dad.
Though if the orphan system is bad in Japan, then why was Door-kun just a blank stare/autistically aloof?

I miss having multiple endings.

Besides akechi, who would likely be the traitor? I was thinking of mishima or makoto

>>376619258
Because PS3 didn't give a shit about society.

>>376606560
Akechi's psychoticness is justified.

If no one wants you, there's nothing wrong with committing mass murder. You still have no value as a person anyway.

Suicide and living life correctly are the answers weak cucks pick.

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>>376619023
He met someone kind of similar I guess?

>>376619365
I could see Mishima in a sense of "I want to raise the phantom thieves popularity by creating crimes for them to fight" kinda way but not the initial murders

Makoto would hurt

Clearly that one guy at the airsoft shop!

>>376613052
There's nothing wrong with killing people if you have no value as a person.

Akechi had no value to anyone and suicide is the path weaklings choose. So is living life correctly, which is just lying to yourself. So the only correct answer is slaughter.

>>376619547
Jesus Christ /r9k/, get out.

>>376576640
>he's been antagonistic all the game
Not really.
All he's really been saying the entire game is that the Phantom Thieves are dangerous, which they are.

>>376619258
Door-kun is an autist cuck.

Akechi is a real man who knows what's right

I just like how Akechi has the voice of Kira Yamato

>>376591451
>the only time in the series we've had a non Fool was Door-kun who was still Fool?

P1 protag was The Emperor
Tatusya was The Sun
Maya was The Moon

So 3/6 protags have been The Fool.

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>>376600780
>Prompto
WAT

>>376619832
But I'm right.

There's no other choices for an unloved loser other than offing yourself or be one of those losers who live life correctly and will never know true happiness; pretending to be happy and those are the choices of a weakling.

Having zero value and not committing atrocities means you're a loser who let's anyone walk all over you.

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>>376601124
Don't lecture him, you piece of shit.

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>>376619718
I felt worse for Adachi than Akechi honestly, Akechi just wanted his daddy's attention.

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Akechi was immediately suspicious ever since pancakes, if you were actually paying attention.
Then the fact that he was in Okumura's Palace without ever being seen, and apparently "confronted" Black Mask.
I don't fault people for missing it though, but I feel like he was far more obviously suspicious than Adachi was, at least to me.

>>376606560
The garbage of society can only kill themselves or become evil itself.

Besides Futaba and Haru's parents deserved to die. Crab mentality is justice incarnate.

>>376615836
Stupid tripfag, there was a image of Goro's smirk everywhere then.
Or Pancakes in general when it's mentioned in game so obviously.
Or him being the fucking cop, where you could justify that he was investigating undercover before you got far in the game.
Or not even suspecting fivehead with the dead dad and thieves blame.
I forget there are retards on this site
>>376617994
This

>>376620387
Adachi wanted "daddy's" attention too

>>376572731
PEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH

*coughs up hairball*

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Did you guys think that all of the additional cutscenes that showed what was happening behind the scenes in some situations ruined or enhanced what was to come?
Part of me feels like Sae straight up telling you that something bad happens during the Okumura case robs it of the mystery of just finding out about it yourself. Everything feels very obvious. Even getting the true ending is so easy that it's nearly impossible to miss.

>>376622095
Sae was an almost entirely useless character who destroyed the dramatic tension

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Goro a CUTE
A CUTE!

>>376622360
Fujo pls.

>could've had a reckless lawfag who could've shared his dad's views on account for his powers while gunning to take him down because of daddy issues
>could've have been conducting his own justice though murders for petty things on account for a God complex
>could've been heartfucked at some point
Anything well written and coherent would've been better than this flip flop shit of a character.

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>>376592908
>Jokers power increases proportional to how many people are shitposting about him on a Taiwanese locksmith enthusiast forum.
So in other words, he's literally powered by (you)s?

>>376593804
Arena 1 was fine.
Arena 2 went full retard.

>>376619547
>If no one wants you, there's nothing wrong with committing mass murder.

Too bad Akechi was a weak willed faggot doing slave jobs for someone else

Akechi would be more respectable if he wasn't a dog and just a plain murderer

>>376591262
>>376591134
>>376591069
I missed the pancakes line but him turning up out of nowhere, "spotting" the real killer and just happening to have hit own persona was obviously a steaming pile of shit.

STOP TALKING ABOUT GROO HOLY SHIT

>>376588064
>Horse legs
Is this to reference to when Loki turned into a female horse and got fucked by Odin's horse to give birth to Slepnir?

>>376623138
stop bringing /pg/ meme here

>>376623138
>Groo
Who?

>>376624083
Butthurt badguy babby detective Groo Groo.

>>376624472
t. Phantom nigger
Leave with your memes

Why the fuck aren't people acknowledging that akechi being a traitor wasn't a twist? They told us there was a traitor, akechi is a perceived antagonist for most of the game, he is named after the most famous Japanese traitor in history and is also very close to the name adachi (the serial killer detective from P4) the killer had a beak on his costume and so did he, his costume was White and red instead of black and red to make him not fit in extremely well with the other cast visually, he mentions pancakes in a way that's supposed to be obvious, you are literally SUPPOSED to pick up on this as well as the fade to white time skips that often happen after talking to him or talking about him, having futaba take his phone off him was obviously suspicious as well. Other than Mishima he is also the only other character who you can repeatedly be mean to which made not much sense at the time because he was always so polite (unlike Mishima who is easily the most annoying and hateable character in game) but since we know these games are made to be new game+ played its obvious foreshadowing that he's going to do something to be a dick.

The twist of his arc was that the cast had been just as aware of all this as you had been. Think how much more convoluted the story would have been in explanation had you not already suspected akechi being the traitor from the start.

>>376618013
>somehow come up with some bs about them being able to shape part of the metaverse as they gain popularity
>Get to form your own base, the room decorations you get from confidants unlock new cosmetics and themes for the base
>doing slinks forms a cognition of the confidant in your base and advancing the link makes the cognition more "real" and gives bonuses
>more progress makes the base bigger and you can use your own personas as patrol shadows
>actually have a secure base to meet in in instead of meeting in fucking public
>have even more of a sense of loss when you have to sacrifice your cool base at the end
Man I'm getting jazzed just honking about it

>>376626775

Obviously the game showing him in harus fathers metaverse before he is shot in the head makes it obviously him, also we don't see his awakening or him signing his contract, he just easily and instantly summons a persona.

WE WERE SUPPOSED TO FUCKING KNOW

His character is a bit messed up but having people criticise P5 for that being an obvious 'twist' is just plain retarded, it's a false twist to make way for the real twist that the crew has been playing him all along

>>376618186
They to have their cake and eat it too with that one because he's a fake detective but also a boy genius as evidenced by his grades and everything he did in the casino

>>376627396

This. You're supposed to see through the twist and be disappointed until the main cast are like 'kek we knew it was u goro u bitch nigga'

>>376622095
Yeah, the whole narrative framin of starting in the middle then flashing back to fill in the whole thing is one of my least favorite devices. I understand why they did it here but it honestly made me a little upset from minute one

http://imgur.com/a/ygVVS
Good times

>>376627952

>Linking to imugr on an image board

wut

>initial reaction to P5 was a 6/10
>voiced this opinion on multiple occasions only to hear ridicule
>one month later
>people are finally getting it

feels good

>>376628520
I think Goro being a massive steaming pile of wasted potential is the only big problem with the game desu. Everything else was a minor gripe at worst. I enjoyed the game throughly. I'd give it an 8 or 9 personally. It had the best ending of modern Persona, the themes were a lot more relatable than "don't commit sudoku kids" or "reach out to the truth", the presentation was great, the confidants were the best they've been yet, and the new gameplay additions were fun to use.