So when does this stop being about breakfast and high school?

F/SN is a masterpiece.
Don't know why you're asking /v/eddit of all places about VNs, makes me think you're only posting it here to shitpost about it.

>>376550552
It doesn't.

>>376550552
i dont. you have to suffer a few hours of cooking.

Honestly skip through the first 5 hours of this
When the romance with Saber starts it gets good

>>376550552
I read the entire thing
It doesn't get good 1 route in
It doesn't get good 2 routes in either
The only good things are Archer, Kirei and EMIYA

>>376550552
Depends honestly. I thought FSN was the worst of the routes and that the other routes were much better.

>>376551273
UBW is good. it made me give damn about shirou.

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You was fooled by VNbabby's

Uro somehow took this shitty porn novel and actually made a superior spin off series.

If you watched/read fate zero you would be surprised it came from some garbage fap bait like Fate Stay Night

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>>376550552
>played/watched weebshit
>didn't expect high school or generic fantasy tropes

People only give a shit about crap like this for the loneliness-killing "women".

>>376550552
It takes a very long time before the interesting stuff happens and the first route isn't actually up to much in the first place.
Tsukihime kicks off slightly faster, so you might want to try that instead.

>>376551634
(You), etc.
Uro"bargain-bin Tomino"butcher is a bigger hack than even Nasu. More predicatable too.

First route is mostly world building and character development.

>>376551634
Fate/Zero is the worst thing to happen to the universe. It shits on F/SN lore and the characters in it are terrible. The only thing Uro is good at is killing off characters, but he does such a bad job writing them that it's hard to ever care

>>376550721
A masterpiece of shit and boredom.

>>376550552
its not the best VN ever, thats umineko

>>376550721
Explain.

fate route is kinda boring. only worth it for the bad ends

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>>376551273
>Didn't like UBW

F/SN is dogshit, just watch/read Fate/Zero.

>>376550552
Saya no Uta is a far superior VN. It's not too long either. I finished it in one sitting.

>>376552637
Umineko can't be the best VN so long as it has Chiru dragging it down.

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Shirou Emiya is the greatest protagonist ever made. Prove me wrong, /jp/.

>>376552709
And one sitting for you would be how long? An hour? 3hrs? 10hrs?

>>376550552
You've been memed on, it took me like 6 months to finish the whole thing because it was just so fucking boring. The general pattern is literally nothing happens for hours, then you get something interesting, and then back to boring SoL shit before something interesting happens again.
UBW is the best route in that regard because it focuses more on action, Fate is complete garbage and Heaven's Feel is dragged down by hours and hours of cooking scenes and days where MC just fucks around.

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>>376552014
>>376552561
Look at these virgins mad that their porn series was out done by another man who made a spin off series off this garbage to a respectable piece of media hailed by critics.

I would like to remind you pic related is also superior to fate stay garbage and was the most Kino scene Ufotable ever produced

>>376550552
>the majority of VN readers have poor taste

That should be obvious, yes.

>>376552872
>hey I just entered a battle royale of wizards and powerful magical beings, and I have one of my own to fight
>she is a female? She can't fight then, I must protect her
Great writing

>>376552561
I get what you mean but nothing compares to the damage that FGO has caused.

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>>376553726
GO is great, the CCC event has been top notch.

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Saber is cute! CUTE!

>>376552561
You're talking as if Zero doesn't have the top 2 incarnations of Gilgamesh

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>/v/ is filled with fz babbies

>>376554185
Just like /a/

Nobody respects the garbage series outside Zero

>>376552647
F/SN seeks out to tackle man's quest for heroism and captures it through a series of methods including humanistic self-actualization and psychodynamic perspectives across multiple universes. Both of which are consistent themes throughout the whole novel.

It's a masterpiece. Get over it

>>376553484
Urobutcher also did porn VNs, mind you.
>Pushes KnK
You do know that was written by Nasu too, right? It's also better than anything Urobutcher ever touched, but at least you seem aware of that much.

>>376554320
You talk big.
Give examples.

>>376553563
Yeah it's almost like he's mentally ill or something.

>>376554320
But first...breakfast and school, *yawn*

5/10 Terrible pacing

F/SN is garbage and anyone who likes it has shit taste. Find something else to do with your time.

>>376550552
>should i make western style food for Tohsaka or eastern?
>i really should do groceries
>then goes in detail about what he bought and what is he going to make
This neverending nightmare

Do not
I repeat DO NOT
take the opinion of anyone who unironically likes VNs seriously

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>>376550552
Shit OP, you reminded me that I really need to finish this game. What kind of snack and drink would be best to accompany me?

>>376554409
>Urobutcher also did porn VNs

And so what? Nobody heralds them like you faggots do for this garbage fate stay night.

I know Nasu did KnK. I am just telling you Fate stay night is weak sauce and shit compared to the spin off and knk, can't believe this shit got dumb popular.

Nero best saber

>>376550552
Tsukihime is superior in every way, I'm surprised It's by the same author

>>376554954
>And so what? Nobody heralds them like you faggots do for this garbage fate stay night.
Actually Saya no Uta and Phantom of Inferno are typically held in high regard. There's even someone who already brought up SoU in this thread. Also I'm not heralding shit, I said Nasu is a hack, it's just that Urobutcher is even worse.

>>376555224
This is also true.

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>Saber is supposed to have Rank A instinct
>She is a servant who are faster than fighter jets and have god like agility
>Some human on magic drugs who isn't on Servant level was able to land "Hits" on her despite everything

Can't even stay consistent with your own powerlevels and y'all stan the series

>>376555268
>Phantom of Inferno
I must have read it at the wrong time in my life because that was probably the worst VN i read not counting pure wank material

>>376555268
>Phantom of Inferno

That shit was only good when the MC had nothing to do with the dumb main chick

>>376555431
Because she's an idiot like Goldie.
The higher your power level the lower your IQ is.

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>>376552667
The scenes with Saber and the feel of Fuyuki city is great. I think Fate route has best atmosphere. Especially the cooking and date scenes.
Closest thing I'll have to a date now was reading Fate route's one with Shirou and Saber.
Gil you dumbass!

>>376550552
I want to marry Iskandar

>>376554850
>outdated version

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>>376550552
>"teh best VNs eva!"
It's not even the best Type-Moon game.

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>>376550552
WHEN YOU GET TO THE LAST AND ONLY GOOD ROUTE OF THE GAME!

>>376555796
I'm not so sure that'd be apt.
Gil was a smug cunt, but because he was so immensely powerful he could just swaggercock around and kill everyone.
Saber facing a human opponent, it makes sense she wouldn't treat him like a threat, despite him not being as strong, he just needed to be strong enough to catch her off guard.

>>376550552
I've read it and it is really not that great. Only good for background and setup for Fate/Zero.

>>376553983
Also this. Gilgamesh is a fucking terrible character in Fate/Stay Night. I don't know how the hell Urobuchi made that garbage character into someone actually interesting but he did it. Just goes to show that there's more to a story than a plot summary from Nasu.

>>376556825
Gilgmesh is about the only good thing that came out of F/Z (maybe Kirei too, but his characterisation was already good enough in FSN), the rest of the cast is predominantly trash. As a whole it's even worse than FSN.

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>>376556817
>but because he was so immensely powerful he could just swaggercock around and kill everyone.
He could, but he chose to be an idiot

>>376554185

What games let me use a spear instead of a faggy sword? And not as a subweapon like in MGR.

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Nasu is the greatest kino man of our time

>secondaries ruining F/sn
>this much Zero cockcucking

fucking kill me

>>376557190
What kind of game? ARPG, turn-based, action game? There's tons man.

>>376556817
>it makes sense she wouldn't treat him like a threat, despite him not being as strong, he just needed to be strong enough to catch her off guard.

Except that shouldn't be able to happen when her body reactions should be way faster and not have her take hits regardless of what she's thinking of the person.

>>376557373
Aren't servants pretty much Mana=power due to their familial status?
Saber didn't really get good mana supply from our boy Emiya.

>>376557305
this fight was the hypest shit ever

>>376557190
>>376557371
I mean, this quarter alone both Nioh and Nier:Automata have spear weapons. I can't speak for Automata as I haven't played it yet, but spear in Nioh is top tier.

>>376557041
>the rest of the cast is predominantly trash
You should be cautious with that argument if you're trying convince someone that FSN is better than FZ.

>>376557371

Action I guess, or anything with a real time moveset.

>>376557560
Here's your (You), faggot.

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>>376557583
is something THIS spoiler heavy their promo?

>>376557041
Most of F/Z's 2nd half could be described as "smug shits making retard decisions and lolKariya" the quality drop after the Gathering of Kings was so deep.

>>376557560
I should be cautious with the truth? The only other character who wasn't an outright trainwreck was Waver. Maybe Iskander at a push.

>>376557576
See >>376557526. Also every musou game ever, Soulsborne games, Toukiden 1 and 2. That's what I can think of in terms of off the top of my head in terms of recent titles, there's probably a whole bunch more.

>>376557373
Shirou is a shit tier master so Saber was fighting with one hand behind her back and Kuzuki was buffed with Caster's magic and had a bullshit move that would only work on her once.

>>376557743
I'm pretty certain that's from the Realta Nua HF cinematic.

>Cu will never plunge his Gae Bolg into your anus
why even live?

>>376557878
That's already 4 characters if you're keeping count. We haven't even started arguing yet.

>>376557995
Ah, I don't remember the cinematics and played the original anyway

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>>376552832
>the Chiru is bad meme
good one goat

>>376557583
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMmOwXCmdTk

>>376557743
>that shit animation
>UFOtable

>>376557471
>>376557945
You're talking as if she wasn't keeping up with servants before when that fag was still supplying her with mana, what changes then?

>>376557995
I'm almost certain there were no cinematics in F/SN besides the openings.

>>376558163
That's four out of a pretty big cast, and I woudn't call Waver and Iskander "good" things, just not utter disasters. All the other servants and masters go off the deep end in terms of characterisation (of the ones that HAD characterisation, that is).

>>376558283
It's considerably worse than the first half and pretty disappointing.
>good one goat
Don't worry Ryukishi, I'm sure you'll write a decent ending one day.

>>376558321
Powerlevels mean less than nothing in Fate, it's 100% compatibility. Saber beat Lancer because Lancer was as badly nerfed as her. She fought evenly against Berserker by being smart and fighting with a terrain advantage.

But Kuzuki and Caster caught her completely off guard, she had no idea a master would be an actual threat to her. So she got caught off-guard and completely destroyed.

>>376558297
>>376557583
That opening never gets old.
Movie cant come soon enough.

>>376557583
>Shirou vs Kirei only gets TWO frames
Bullshit son.

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>>376558521
>Don't worry Ryukishi, I'm sure you'll write a decent ending one day.
JJ-Just you wait WTC5 will blow you away I swear.

>>376558321
Basically this >>376558531

She got cheap shotted more or less. Kuzuki(at least I believe it was him but it might have been Saber) even says the move he used wouldn't work a second time.

>>376558487
Yeah, it's from the Vita version of Realta Nua HF opening. Dunno if the PS2 version had a similar opening or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi1FzbGHjNU

>>376558306
It is. Ufotable skimps out sometimes.

>>376558531
But how can one be caught off guard if they're able to move faster and react faster?

It wasn't even a one hit exchange, he kept hitting her and THEN grabbed her like why was her body acting slow as fuck then?

>>376558283
was he gay?

>>376558521
Waver and Iskandar are absolutely good characters, and I'd put up Kerry too. What does FSN have? Shirou and Kirei pretty much.

>>376550552
Do you actually sit there and read every word? If it's fluff I just skim through it.

>>376559156
Kuzuki wasn't quite at servant level but still moving many times faster than a human can. And the VN explains it better, but his fighting style was all about using bizarre and what appear to be senseless movements to confuse opponents. Saber relies on a skill called Instinct that allows her to predict what enemies will do, then react. But her Instinct was telling her the wrong things to do, and worked against her, because of Kuzuki's style.

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>>376559190
If Will was gay then so was Battler and George

>>376559156
Because he has a fighting style that is hard to figure out and it's even harder with all the buffs.
Like Kojiro having that one move where if you get hit you get rekt.

>>376559335
So he's a huge faggot

>>376551058
>Skipping anything.
>Ever.

>>376559204
I kept thinking Waver and Alexander were gonna fuck or something

>>376559482
Sweet anon...

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>>376559446
Massive. No one can resist the Yasu

>>376559482
Iskander would wear Waver like a fucking condom.
He could walk around the hose with Waver sticking horizontally off of Iskander's hips, coughing up semen at regular intervals.

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How do I into Fate?

>>376550552

This whole universe is a clusterfuck.

Also..

>VNs

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>>376556401
hello fellow Confused Hisui poster, why is she so perfect?

>>376559731
Just/Stay Away

>>376559204
Kerry is a fucking mess.
>What does FSN have? Shirou and Kirei pretty much.
Well if Waver and Iskander make the cut then also Archer, Ilya, Sakura, Rin, Lancer and Saber at the very least. The others vary from passable to underutilised, the only one really poorly characterised in proportion to their prominance is Gil.

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>>376559156
She didn't expect that sort of speed from Kuzuki. She dodged his fist but he moved it "like a snake" (as stated in the VN) and snapped his fingers around her neck.
The moment he grappled her, the fight was over.
Saber and Kuzuki both say that if they fought again, she'd be fucked.
Even Archer annihilated Kuzuki once his buffs wear off.

>>376559762
That's why you only watch/read Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night (all thee routes) and disregard anything and everything else.

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>>376559794
>why is she so perfect?
Because she has a great sister looking out for her.

never

The best route, Heaven's Feel, also has the most cooking and eating scenes

>>376559319
>Saber relies on a skill called Instinct that allows her to predict what enemies will do

Breh, instinct is something that's just out of your control though, like not something you know yourself and act accordingly to what it supposedly tells you.

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>>376560009
>implying
KnK and Tsuki are top tier buddy

>>376557373
>>376557471
>>376558321
>>376558531
>>376559156
>>376559925
It's simple you retards.

Men are stronger than women which is why some buff as fuck male teacher could trash that twink. Maybe if Saber was the REAL Arthur and male she would have had 50/50 chance

>>376560176
I figured he meant anything related to Fate, not type-moon in general. My bad.

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Extella pissed me off.

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>>376552561
To each their own, but I'm genuinely curious how the characters in F/SN are better?

Zero had its share of edgelords, but at least the characters talked to each other and explored their feelings and motivations beyond being a shonen lead and his high school harem group getting in over their heads.

>>376560176
Is Shirou going to shoot his "arrow" on Gil's skull again?

>>376560512
I hope you don't mean its ending did, because that was cute as fuck.

>>376559156
He was buffed by Caster to greatly exceed human speed in addition to using a non-sensical fighting style that is designed to catch people off-guard. Once he loses the buffs a greatly weakened Archer easily kills him.

The better question is why Saber's precog didn't work there when it has worked against much crazier bullshit like Fake Assassin's ultimate skill.

>>376560635
I've only played Nero's route and now I'm depressed, does it get better?

>>376560537
You're massively oversimplifying the FSN cast.
And if you want to talk about character definition based on motivation and state of mind, KnK blows all of them out of the water apart from maybe DDD/SnS. Tsukihime has more going on too, come to think of it.

>>376560726
Yeah play Nero's 2nd route and it ends happily.

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>>376560635
No I was more pissed that Archer did literally nothing the entire game.
I was expecting him and Lu Bu to betray their masters, team up, and cure everything via violence.

HF > Zero > Hollow/Ataraxia > Fate > UBW

>>376560762
I think F/SN's cast is just slightly worse than F/Z, but that's only because F/Z was designed to spread the focus whereas F/SN was wholly Shirou's story and the entire game was essentially an in-depth examination/deconstruction of a very powerful theme. Only Saber (mirrors Shirou's own ideals) and Rin (secondary protagonist) get the most development for that reason and it should be pointed out that F/Z lacks such a powerful and cohesive narrative.

>>376559848
How is Kerry a mess? Especially with some of the nonsense characters you're bringing out on the FSN side. Archer is LITERALLY Shirou, that is what makes his character arc even function. Lancer? Illy? Sakura? No way, they're worse characters than Kiritsugu.

>>376561120
I deny your assertion on the grounds that Kariya, Tokiomi, loli Rin, and the nothing that is Irisviel exist.

>>376550552
You fell for the chuuni dating simulator for intellectuals meme
But in my experience the games (yes, they do have a RPS combat) and F/Zero are alright

>>376561291
Actually you may be right now that I think about it.

F/SN has Rin, Saber, and Shirou/Archer with strong character arcs. Secondary would be Kirei and maybe Sakura. Everyone else is largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

F/Z had Fast Wheels, Lancer, Berserker, Saber, Kirei, Worm Man, and maybe Gil.

>>376561291
>how good is the cast?
>how about we look at the weakest characters to decide
Do you understand how this works or do I have to explain it?

>>376561156
>Illya? Sakura?
OK man I'm one of the faggots that say Sakura is the worst part of HF and even I can say with certainty she was a better-written character than Kiritsugu. If you really want to see the problem with Kiritsugu then read the novel of Fate/Zero. He's inconsistent and has no internal logic despite his narration implying he does. His actions do not line up with his thoughts. His conflicts and rivalries go nowhere. All the most interesting questions he brings to the table are NEVER addressed.

>>376561479
I'm confused. You missed some good FZ characters and just listed some bad ones instead.

>>376558863
FSN (PC) had no opening for HF. Realta Nua did.

Was Angry Manjew a good character?

>>376561617
Who did I miss other than Waver?
I was talking in terms of character development/narrative cohesion. The rest of the F/Z cast were fluff just like F/SN.

>>376561120
There are underutilised characters in both, but on balance FSN has more pertinant ones.
KnK wins out largely by virtue of having one of the smallest casts in the entire franchise, almost every character gets a moment to shine.

>>376561156
Kerry's arc in F/Z in relation to how he's presented in FSN is off, for starters. Secondly, his backstory with relation to his development is poor, much more so than Shirou's. Lastly, his character hinges on others showing him up, ala Kirei. Without them he has very little going for him.
> Archer is LITERALLY Shirou
And yet also isn't Shirou. That's the point.
>Lancer? Illy? Sakura? No way, they're worse characters than Kiritsugu.
No. They're just not as heavily used as Kerry. Kerry is a problem for the same reason FSN Gil is, he has high prominance but his characterisation is fucked.

>>376560762
>Tsukihime has more going on too, come to think of it.

Explain?

>>376561524
Because these extremely weak characters are integral to the plot and other major character's development. You can't purge them from the story without completely changing it, they're unfortunately essentially the the story as we're given it, so their presence makes it tangibly worse.

>>376561716
>Lastly, his character hinges on others showing him up, ala Kirei. Without them he has very little going for him.
I don't understand this. Characters are defined by their experiences and conflicts. Or are you saying Shirou is a shit character just because he would've stayed one dimension if Archer / the grail war didn't happen.

>>376550552
twitch tv/videos/140521551?t=4m48s

>>376561810
>Because these extremely weak characters are integral to the plot and other major character's development

Yes, there's a word for that like ya know, plot devices

>>376561031
You got that backwards.

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>>376560948
EMIYA is no Chen Gong

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>>376558521
>Umineko had a bad ending

>>376561989
And that's generally accepted to be lazy or bad writing. Characters that exist for no other reason than to move the plot and can't even be entertaining when they do it should not be praised.

>>376561810
Using that line of logic weak characters in FSN that aren't integral to the plot or the development of other characters don't detract from the story, when they do.

>>376561714
You missed Iskandar

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>a couple hours of cooking is bad
you guys have no fucking idea just how bad things can be

>>376562218
Gee anon it's almost like there are multiple ways a character's value can be measured.

>>376559731
Read the VN, after that you can branch out into whatever you want.

If you don't feel like spending days reading it than UBW is a decent enough place to start as well.

Grand Order is getting an English release you you can start with that instead to instantly ruin threads just by mentioning it.

>>376562318
>Two visual novels to get to the actually good stuff
>Is not actually all that good, just "lol everyone dies"
Just cut my life into pieces.

Was the cooking in Fate and HF that bad?

>>376562313
I don't know, he was pretty static as a character. He pretty much existed only to facilitate Waver's development.

>>376562440
It drags down the pacing because characters have serious shit to do and the story spends hours on really mundane tasks like cooking, shopping, and high school shenanigans.

It works much better in H/A where it was the main focus and the actual plot had little urgency.

>>376562364
There are, but that anon is still wrong.

>>376562651
He's not wrong though, that all four of those made the plot worse by their existence.

>>376562531
A character doesn't have to change to be good. Rider doesn't change as a person but his personality has dimension to it, which we see from how he acts across the series.

>>376561734
Each character has quite a bit of development, moreso than Shiki in some cases. Again, that's probably the advantage of having a smaller cast.
Shiki himself has fairly intensive state of mind cases, for that matter. Nothing as coherent as Shirou or Ryougi's, but then they don't have anything as insane either.

>>376561919
No, Shirou has specific character definition that functions in spite of other characters, he's a broken person and that much is determined from the very begnning. From that point on, he can either remain broken (ala Archer's scenario or Fate), confront the issue (UBW) or reject it (HF). It can be both static or reactionary. Kerry's arc is actually very simple but only through fucking up and losing everything does it actually come to a head. It's a purely reactionary character arc (to be fair, this is a problem of havig a fixed backstory instead of Shirou's more flexible story), and there's nothing strictly wrong with it, it's just that it needs other (arguably better) characters to prop it up. And the good thing to come from it is that it gave Gil the opportunity to be better written and Kirei more development.

>>376562102
It's a mess. What else is there to say?

>>376562727
>A character doesn't have to change to be good.
But a character who only exists to enable another character with little relevancy to the story outside of the subplot isn't necessarily good either. I would never put Iskander on the same level as Shirou for example. It's just absurd thinking about it.

>>376562102
Umineko had zero planning at all.
It was just constant twists over and over and when it came time to end the series for good, the author had written himself into a corner.

>>376562745
>From that point on, he can either remain broken
Except LE specifically goes through great lengths to show that he isn't broken and that pursuing his ideals is not inherently wrong. Hell even without the Avalon deal he dies a peaceful and happy death. Even Extra/CCC revisit the issue again with Archer coming to terms with his janitor-status realizing that while it sucks, he's still doing good.

>>376562725
A character having low characterization and a character detracting from the plot are two different things. It's only a total waste in FSN's situation where the character sucks and also doesn't contribute to the plot at all.

>>376562918
I heard Umineko was supposed to have planning but the co-author died halfway through so the remaining author didn't know where to go with it.

>>376562995
>It's only a total waste in FSN's situation where the character sucks and also doesn't contribute to the plot at all.

Which characters and why?

>>376562838

See
>>376562364
I'm not even the one that said that. You're only thinking about Iskandar's relevance to the main plot and ignoring his merits as a character himself.

>>376562975
Fine, if you want to split hairs then "remain true to his ideal" instead of "broken". It's all a matter of perspective anyway. The point stands, regardless.

>>376562995
You're completely wrong. Kariya was not just a pathetic character, he was a completely nonsensical character that introduces multiple plot holes by his very existence. Same thing with Tokiomi, he's supposed to be there to elaborate on Rin's character in Stay Night but not only does he barely interact with her, he's such a fucking retard it makes Rin's views of him in SN confusing.

>>376563183
I've made my metrics clear from the start as to what I was examining in regards to character. If you put Iskander on the same level as Shirou or Kerry in narrative quality, then this conversation is simply over.

>>376563198
Except it's not even a matter of perspective. Nasu has went to great lengths to show us that none of Shirou's choices are wrong. He gave Fate Last Episode to explain how he wasn't "broken" and specifically made an original ending for the UBW anime to show how he can live his life with such contradictory ideals and wants.

Only plebs try to play sides regarding Shirou's character or wormfags. It'll be interesting seeing discussion flare up again with HF movies.

What the fucks is with the balance of the war? Aside from their personal bullshit, six of the seven classes seem more or less balanced in terms of stats and class skills, but then comes the saber class and it's the best at everything and reistant to magic and fuck you.

>>376563239
>he was a completely nonsensical character that introduces multiple plot holes by his very existence

?

>>376563174
Team caster plus fake assassin. Lancer, whose entire contribution to the plot is serving as a distraction. Berserker, who unlike FZ zerker doesn't have a story that assists a major character. Most of the characters from the school, Taiga.

>>376563424
Well what's right and wrong is a matter of opinion, but if that's how Nasu says it is, then I guess that's how it is. Either way, it doesn't change the point I was making, so I'm not really sure why you brought it up in the first place.

>>376563535
cuz its rigged for the three families

>>376563279
So you're just going to ignore any other metric. Fine.

>>376563671
I'm just correcting age old misconceptions regarding Shirou's character.

>Be hyped for HF adaptation for some sweet True Assassin and Kirei.
>Remember it's all centered around wormslut

Fuck.

And to make things worse, Lancer gets shafted even earlier than usual, without a chance to show how based he is.

>>376554494
But first...ADHD.

>>376563647
Team Caster is used to set up Archer's gambit in UBW. If you're referring to their status as nothing more than a mid-boss in Fate, then Caster in F/Z exists for the exact same reason so I don't know what you're even arguing.

>>376563835
Well okay then, I acknowledge your point. So long as we're all on the same page, I think we're good.

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How do I get good at Extella?

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>>376563647
>Team caster plus fake assassin.
They play a large role in UBW and facilitate Archer's plot.

>Lancer, whose entire contribution to the plot is serving as a distraction.
Agreed he's underused, but he also gets his moments both in Fate and UBW, and is an ally that spurs on Shirou and Rin's development a bit.

>Berserker, who unlike FZ zerker doesn't have a story that assists a major character.
Lancelot is such an awful character I was tempted to just stop writing and tell you to kill yourself. But Heracles has his own value. He doesn't speak much but he's an important foil to Illya, who IS a major character.

>Most of the characters from the school
Filler, only there to be entertaining, which they are. Excluding Issei, who is also involved in unraveling the Caster mystery in UBW.

>Taiga.
Tiger Dojos you fucking idiot, kill yourself. Also, she's a humanizing element to Shirou, she's the most important person in his life.

>>376563823
No, I'm not ignoring other metrics. You're the one who jumped into the middle of the conversation going
>NU UH YOURE WROOOOOOONG

If it's any consolation Mr. Shitposter, otherwise I do consider Iskander a fine character. But he fulfills a similar role to other secondary characters in F/SN.

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>>376562918
>Umineko had zero planning at all.
Uh huh.

>>376551378
>>376552674
Heavens feel best feel.

>>376563923
I'm arguing about the merits of bad characters that are part of the plot, and how they at least as good if not better than bad characters that don't contribute to the plot. And unlike FSN fans I don't feel the need to go out my way to defend indefensible points like Caster, who in both stories exists to set up battles.

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>>376564003
>she's the most important person in his life.
It's a goddamn shame taiga doesn't get as much love as she should, she's cute

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>People hating on UBW

>>376555224
Tsukhime is truly a story about optimism, valuing yourself, appreciating your life, and moving boldly into the future. Death might not be as close to our doors as it is to Shiki’s… but, then again, you never know. That is why the lessons in this story are so applicable. You are alive now, but maybe not tomorrow. So look on your past fondly, smile at yourself in the mirror now and again, and hope lovingly for the future.

In the epilogue, Shiki fatefully meets Aoko again and they muse a little bit about old times past. Shiki notes how the past several days/weeks (the span of X route) have been crazy. And some point Aoko tells him that those days will eventually end. Shiki agrees and asks something to the effect of when. The Magus just kind of remains silent and freaking Shiki just tells her that the days were fun, though.

And this is what, for me, Tsukihime was about. Yes, there were vampires and serial killers. But it was really about finding joys in today – even when it doesn’t seem like there are any… and about having faith in a tomorrow. Basically, Tohno Shiki could die ten years from that conversation with Aoko, or he might not even wake up the next day. Although we don’t “live close to death”, the same basic concept applies. There are no promises in life. So you can go through life miserable only to be potentially snuffed out tomorrow, or you can find your own happiness and hope it extends into your future.

>>376550552
>just read this VN, it gets good 20 hours in!

I'll never listen to you fags again. Every single one of these shitty picture-books that you've recommended to me have been excruciating to get through.

It's like as if you took the average videogame and stripped all gameplay from it, who'd enjoy these garbage.

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>>376564519
Rin is a Semen Demon.

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So a new holy grail war has begun. Which setup of heroic spirits would be the most entertaining?

You can't reuse Arturia or Gil
No special classes

>>376564519
Reminder Rin is the only one of Shirou's waifus to canonically get impregnated by him

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>>376564614

>>376564621
I'm ignoring your rules because it's an opportunity to post this monstrosity again

https://pastebin.com/wh7B7pd3

>>376564583
Try Saya no Uta. It doesn't take half a year to read through like FSN.

>>376563239
>Same thing with Tokiomi, he's supposed to be there to elaborate on Rin's character in Stay Night but not only does he barely interact with her, he's such a fucking retard it makes Rin's views of him in SN confusing.

Rin acts the way she does because much of the truth about her father was hidden from her, which helps maintain her viewpoint of a magus having dignity and a solid creed with her "always elegant" motto. It's why she and Sakura have such stark views on being a magus, she has everything to be proud of with being a magus, Sakura doesn't.

Was also sure her dictionary entries implied that if she ever found out what lied underneath the dandy persona her father had and he raised her to a teenager, she would have either been a cold bitch or left magecraft for good.

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>>376564676

>>376564846
Kirei just kept the truth from her because doing so was so entertaining I bet he came when he gave her the knife.

>>376563898
I can't wait!

>listen to /a/ and start series with the vn
>it's shit
I read it in the regular order (FSN, UBW, and HF last) and the only fun I had with this shit was any of Cu's scenes and a few of the priest's. Bottom line, just watch the anime.

>>376565205
The anime cuts most of Lancer's banter.

Who were your favorite and least favorite Servants?

>>376565332
It does? Well fuck (I haven't seen the anime yet). But desu, it's not worth reading all of it just for Cu. Least favorite has to be assassin in HF just for his laugh. But I didn't really care for any servants besides Cu and maybe samurai assassin.

>>376564440
So you're arguing purely on opinion at this point as to what is deemed as a "bad" character.

Okay, you're free to your own opinion buddy.

>>376565618
>everything you're saying is just an opinion!
Wow, that's news to me.

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>>376565592
I wanted justice for Lancer too. But he is a recurring joke character. Lancers have E luck and they keep repeatedly hammering this point. Just watch Carnival Phantasm instead if you want more Lancer scenes.

I disagree that there wasn't enough Lancer in the VN though. There isn't enough Rider and Caster for sure.

>>376565592
I think I might be one of the few people who actually likes Cursed Arm Hassan. He tries so hard and almost always fails. It might be that he's one of the nicest guys in the cast and how him getting shafted in every installment makes me root for the underdog.

It might be that he failed to even place in the anniversary character poll, hell even Sola Ui and Volumen Hydrangerum beat him. It's weird how Nasu kept giving him appearances in Grand Order despite how unliked he is. I wonder where he'd place now.

>4th

Rider>>>>>>>>>Archer>>>>>Lancer>>>>>>>>>>>>Caster>Berserker>>Seibah>Assassin

>5th

Lancer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archer>Fake Asassin*>>>>Avenger>Caster>True Assassin>Berserker>>>>>>>>Seibah>Rider

*Assassin would be higher but gets crippled by being stuck in one place so he only gets screentime in the temple scenes.

>>376565592
Play Fate/Hollow Ataraxia if you want more Lancer and his Master. There is a map screen to choose who you want to visit. Always go for Lancer.

>>376566291
Did you like what they added for Caster in the anime?

>>376566382
What about FZ Assassin(s)?

>Play Fate/Unlimited Codes for PS2
>Zero Lancer is a bonus character
>No Cursed Arm Hassan

>>376566291
Everyone should watch Carnival Phantasm if they haven't already.

>>376566291

How would he have performed with Bazzet?

>>376560948
Wasted potential. The Nero boner was strong in Extella.

>Saber does an asspull and wins the fight

there's the entirety of f s/n

the rest of the series is equally as badly written

>>376566291
>Carnival Phantasm
Really looking forward to watching that eventually desu. But an /a/non said to read tsuki first to fully enjoy it.
>>376566528
>Ataraxia
Yeah, I was already looking into this. Isn't the PC version getting audio soon (as a result of the vita being hacked)? Or am I thinking of a different Fate VN?

>>376566618
I HATE IT

It's shit. I've only read the english translation, but it's by far the worst writing I've ever seen.

The story is an inconsistent mess, the themes are childish at best and the setting is never properly established ( which lets the author contradict himself and pull out some deus ex machina whenever it's convenient ). The only thing this "novel" does well is making its characters look chuuni and "cool".


Basically it's just a porn game with chuuni elements thrown into it. Watch the anime first and if you really, really liked it, read the VN.

>>376566636
Zayd deserved better Asako is shit, also one of the biggest jobbers in the franchise, jobbed to Gil although this is acceptable, jobbed to Iskander, jobbed to random mooks in FGO, never does anything important.

At least they're better than Serenity.

King Hassan > CA Hassan > Spooky Hassan > Zealot > HF Hassan > Serenity

Can Shiki kill servants?

>>376566892

Saber class is pure bullshit. All the benefits of berserker with a clear independant mind and access to all noble phantasms.

It should have god tier magic resistance and that's it.

>>376566904
DESU you need to play/read most of the nasuverse stuff to get all of it but FSN and Tsukihime will get you like 70% of the way.

>>376567475
Well to be fair the Einberns rigged the entire game in Sabers favor with Archer/Lancer as a dark horse and the other four being traps, with Berserker intended to be an auto-loss.

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wee woo

>>376566528
>Did you like what they added for Caster in the anime?
In CP she's like a newly wed who doesn't win ever but has her own small victories. Probably the fairest I've seen Caster shown.
In Deen's FSN she flies in before the last arc and Gil slashes at her which was pretty sad but the same as in the VN.
In UBW adaptations she just kidnaps Saber and gets beat up by Rin.
There is never a time when Caster is seen as an unstoppable villain, like Gil, Berserker, the Shadow, or even Assassin on the high ground. I see her as having the potential but never reaching it. She has it just as bad as Lancer but none of the glory.

>>376566784
Considering she was always intended to summon a Lancer maybe she was always lucky and would have raised his luck.

>>376567797

>Berserker intended as an auto-loss
>They put all their money on one last try for the fifth war
>With a berserker

Those dumb krauts deserved to lose.

>>376568136
They really were retarded, they put all their money on Illya even though as the grail herself she was literally the only person who couldn't win the war. I guess Acht decided to fuck everything after the disaster that was the third and fourth wars.

>>376566784
How would Kirei control everything if Bazett was still around?

>>376566904
Play Fate/hollow ataraxia, then Tsukihime, and then Kagetsu Tohya.

>>376567475
Why is Saber the weakest Servant?

https://youtu.be/xKq2iUIIc-U

>>376569262
shounen adventure

>>376568998

Bazzet craved his dick like crazy, I'm sure he would have managed.

>>376554320
damn you sure convinced me with all those buzzwords

>>376569262
Why is she not flaunted about in that sexy dress Caster dommed her into?

>>376570257
Who doesn't crave a faithful Christian though?

>>376570505
Nasu wrote that scene because he wanted to see a holy woman violated. that's all.

>>376569262
She wrecks Zero's Caster though.

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>>376567119
Yes.

>>376571878
Can Servants kill Dead Apostles?

>>376569262
Lot of that's cherrypicking and no one said Arturia was automatically the best, just the class (Except Iri, but what does she know)

Let's go through her wins and losses one by one. In FSN she was stated-down by Shirou and has a very strict mana capacity:
-Pushed back Lancer, survived the Bulge
-gutted Archer once in each route
-Got gutted by Berserker in Fate and HF which is no shame since he's motherfucking Heracles
-Stalemate with Assassin, who is the most elder god tier super swordsman in the whole series.
-Shinji Rider never even registered as a threat before she broke out pegasus
-Eventually beat Heracles
-lost to Gilgamesh, the most OP servant ever (for a time). Managed to withstand Ea.
-Beat Gilgamesh
-Stunned by Kuzuki, who was a freakish assassin backed by age of gods magic. Kind of a stretch, but bizarre surprise attack by a Nanaya level mountain assassin. His technique only works one time against someone and that's why he pussed out from ever trying to go after her again.
-Ruuru breakaa'd while being held back via command seal. then went on to resist Caster's attempts to break her the whole time
-Beat Assassin
-gutted Rider and "killed" Zouken
-killed Caster
-got ringed out by the shadow while fighting True Assassin

>>376572801

in Zero, however, she has no handicap other than being written by Butcher:

-Lost to Diarmuid cause she made extremely stupid mistakes in her fight with him
-Almost got her head smashed in by a lamppost until Diarmuid saved her.
-Bullymeat for Kiritsugu
-doesn't kill Caster despite hating him and having several opportunities
-Has to be saved from caster's monsters by Diarmuid.
-Bullymeat for Rider and Gil
-Attacked by JETS. She's never hit but is bailed out by Diarmuid and Gil
-Saved by Diarmuid for the fourth fucking time by breaking his spear to let her Excaliblast Caster
-Killed Caster
-Exclibast somehow not fast enough to kill Rider's slow ass. She lets him go afterwards
-Bullymeat for Lancelot
-Pushed back by Lancelot using Arondight but doesn't manage to kill her (somewhat impressive considering her very low morale and having Dragon alignment).
-Kills Lancelot with Invisible Air of all things when it didn't scratch him earlier (somehow)
-Beat by Gil's light GoB spam in the finale

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fuck saber arucied is best girl

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Which TM girl's personality would make the best real life girlfriend?

>>376572909
Hollow Ataraxia?

>>376573110
Honestly the only fight scene I remember her being impressive in is vs Archer, and he's the guy who defines "fighting with a handicap" in Stay Night to begin with.

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>>376573019
I'll stick with my waifu

>>376573318
>>376573019
wormslut

>>376573415
>BB
>Worms
Retardo

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>>376573415
Ahahahahaha

>>376573110
Not much to say, but real quick:

Saber Vs. Archer. Scenario was very unique and not indicative of either's aptitudes. She can't move much cause he's aiming for Shirou the whole time, but she uses a command spell to close the gap.
Got Frag'd by Bazett, which took god knows how many retries for her to pull off.
Swatted some avenger corpses

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>>376573318
>>376573617

I don't like Sakura.
But BB does things to my dick.

>>376550552
>teh best VNs eva!
That's not Muv Luv though

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>>376573748
She tries her best

>>376573821
Come on anon, it would at least have to be good to qualify for "best"

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>>376573871
I don't see what point (You) are trying to make

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>>376573748
Why are Sakura clones better then Sakura herself?

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>>376566291
He solos the grail war in the Grand Order anime. Grand Order as a whole is trash but Lancer soloing every servant is cool.

Well he's a caster there, not lancer

>>376566904
Carnival Phantasm, it's fun but it's a shitty adaptation of the manga it adapts.

You need to read Tsukihime, Kagetsu Tohya, Melty Blood, F/SN and F/HA to know the characters in it.

>>376550552
>one of "teh best VNs eva!"
No one told you this.

>>376574015
damaged goods

>>376550552
first route is slow and never really gets to be all that great, but it's ok at times
ubw explores shirou a lot more and is imo way more interesting than fate
hf explores some more stuff about shirou and is also super interesting. it's also more fucked up which may be good or bad depending on your perspective.

>>376554954
>And so what? Nobody heralds them like you faggots do for this garbage fate stay night.
saya no uta is shilled to the max, who the fuck are you trying to kid

>>376574032
Take Moon isn't available in English unfortunately

>>376573748
>>376574015
They're all "Sakura", they're literally meant to be different parts of her personality. There's a reason there's so many similarities between CCC and HF, not to mention the message Nasu always tries to get across in every single Fate story writes

Let go of the past(servants), live in the moment with the people that are actually living with you right now. He always uses Sakura for this purpose

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>>376572946
What's that anon? You want saber arcuied?

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>>376574015
Because they aren't.

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>>376574359

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>>376573821
555-COME-ON-NOW

>>376574489
>Bakabt is dead
>nobody can download the Tsukihime manga in english

>>376574032
Those weren't real servants. They were "shadows" of respective servant that were far weaker or something. They had to spin some way around it cause it's from a game where each "servant" was just a stock enemy encounter.

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>>376574278
nigga u went full nasu there

>>376574678
i just read it on some random manga site like two months ago i'm sure you can find it

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>>376574359
DELETE THIS

>>376574678
There's a pasta on /a/ with all the links to tsukihime related stuff.

Or you can get it from the goddess.

Or online readers

Member that time Shirou thought Taiga getting raped was a learning experience?

>>376574032
He doesn't solo shit and you know it.

>>376574278
"Sakura" is only Sakura when she is whole. Literally ripping aspects of her personality and making separate characters makes them different people on a fundamental level.

It's about as disingenuous as calling the nigger servant Shirou.

>>376550552
>In the end, we truly were Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works
kamige

>>376574528
As a Fatefag, I unironically enjoyed Muv Luv way more.

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>>376577238
>Backed the localization at the $300 tier
>Still waiting for Alternative to be released
>Haven't heard any news for at least a month or so now

>>376577238
I tried to get into Muv Luv, but the suffering/gore porn got too much for me. I can stand it being there to serve the story but at a point I started feeling like it WAS the story.

>>376578364
I liked Schwarzesmarken the most. I'll take German politics and semi-political intrigue over bait and switch highschool dramas

>>376577557
th-they're working on it!

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Reminder Gil is best boy.

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>>376579135
Did something happen right after the Epilogue? It's surprising Shirou transformed so quickly.

>tfw Nasu confirmed Rin saves Shirou from the nuclear incident

>>376553983
Best Gilgamesh was Fate/Extra Gil

RIN PLEASES OLD MEN FOR MONEY

>>376579715
WITH HER ANUS

The actual truth is that Zero and Stay Night are both quite shit. Grand Order saved the franchise; there's no need to talk about those piles of trash anymore.

>>376580127
fucking waifu fags

marie is shit and worst girl

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>>376580127
>>157048468

>>376554245
Doesn't /a/ shit on Zero for bringing in hordes of casual secondaries who think they're too cool for anime?

>>376581343
Can you blame them? Zero has chuuni manchildren as their protagonists and everyone worships the ground Kiritsugu the Edge Lord walks on.

>>376581343
/a/ isn't a person. The problem were the Zero fans asking questions that were already answered in FSN or FHA.

F/Z and F/SN have lots of fights. Which one(s) do you consider the best? Your favorite(s)?

>>376582136
Shirou against Archer in UBW and Shirou against Kirei in HF.

>>376582136
The best part was when Gilgamesh laughs maniacally for like ten minutes after half killing Shirou and Saber on their date while they impotently struggled to get up out of their own blood.

Gilgamesh laughing for an uncomfortably long time in the background while other characters (generally Saber) are trying to have a moment is so good it's happened twice now, in the DEEN anime and the Fate Zero Sound Drama. Too bad ufo didn't really go for it in the Zero anime and certainly won't here either what with this chilled out Gil

Fate is a shit tier vn.

Please go back to /a/ and dont even think of going to /jp/ you filthy weeaboos.

>>376582136
The Lancer chase at the beginning of F/SN is really something else. The one where Shirou dies and Rin comes in to save him. And then later on Saber appears when Lancer was about to finish him off. Such a good intro, because of all the mystery the reader comes across.

Other than that, Nine Lives Blade Works was also amazing because of how impossible it was and how Shirou's arm exploded after.

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>>376584172

>>376582136
I'm still a fan of Kirei against true assassin/zouken.