Where did the linear games go?

straight into the trash

More like where did the in between go

Witcher 3 is best of two worlds.

Valve is going to deliver

Is that Shaq?

>>376493229

my ass

>muh open world
I think philosophically speaking, the linear game is contained within the open world game. Like you can have a linear experience within the open world game, but you can't have freedom/exploration in a linear game. So people think open world is better.

In practice, this never happens. Or at least very very rarely. You either get a game that has little sense of direction and thus meanders around. Or you get a game which is "open world" but really just a bunch of half assessed linear games smushed together. Or you get an "open world game" which has stuff in it that makes it basically just a linear game with a bunch of huge open spaces to walk around it that are empty.

When you make a linear game, it needs to actually be good.

When you make an open world game, it can have shallow mechanics and weak mission design and people will still fellate it as 10/10 because the ability to roam around adds a lot of filler, which spreads out the content so that you can absorb it in enough density to appreciate how thoroughly mediocre it is.

An example would be Red Dead Redemption. If you stripped out the open world and made it a linear mission based shooter it would be panned heavily, even though nothing has actually changed when it comes to the most important content.

So if you're a shit developer making a shit game, it only makes sense to make it open world.

>>376493229
remember how many people hated ff13

what happened

>>376493296

I thought two worlds 2 was the best of two worlds

>>376493413
>which spreads out the content so that you can absorb it in enough density to appreciate how thoroughly mediocre it is.
*can't absorb it

>>376493296
It's really fucking not. It's cookie cutter drowner fights in between being led by the nose with your batman vision.

Story and atmosphere is what makes TW good. The gameplay has always been mediocre, no matter what direction you approach it from.

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>>376493229
>linear games are bad by default
>open world games are good by default
When will this meme end?

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>>376493439
Square-Enix took linearity to its absolute extreme, that's what happened.

>>376493505
Yep, the combat is meh.

Linear games are absolute trash

Rockstar and Ubisoft selling many copies of their usual open world formula.

Backlash on linear games getting vocal around when Uncharted 2 came out. Around this time stuff like how linear the CoD/Battlefield campaigns are also got put into question.

Things went next level when Skyrim came out though. While not very deep in mechanics, the game had a lot of them, and was able to get casuals get entrenched in all of them. There's a reason that thing about Japanese game devs showed that among Japanese game devs the most influential video game has been Skyrim.

>>376493439
Oh shit, yeah I forgot about this one as well. Except unlike Uncharted or CoD single player campaigns, this one actually kinda deserved getting shit on...until 35 hours in when it gets good.

into the trash where they're belong to

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linear 3rd and 1st person games from the late 90s to mid 2000s are my favorite. open world is for autists.

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>>376493229

>what is middleground

deus ex is a good example. no minimap retardation, no waypoints, just find your way there through a level that is big enough to feel intricate but small enough too actually have some semblance of interesting level design

>>376493229
Japan.

>>376493439
>tonally consistent

Remember how deeply immersed and interested you were in the story of all those bland cardboard anime archetypes?

Yeah, me neither. FFXIII's problem was that it was so linear that you're literally being told what the world is without being able to actually SEE what the world is. You're stuffed down a corridor with nothing to cling to but a bunch of whiny children and a half-baked vague setting that never takes the time to actually establish itself.

People shit on FFXII a lot for being clunky, but at least that has a setting and characters that can be fucking understood and enjoyed, instead of just vomited into our collective laps and shoved in our faces.

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>arcade games have always been consistently good one way or another
>there's no "open world" arcade game

Checkmate atheists

>>376493229
Open worlds can be good if they treat the player like dogshit but still reward skillful gameplay. Too often these games treat the player as the chosen one and the difficulty/depth of gameplay does not change from the first 20 minutes.

>>376493843
Midcore gameplay. Over rated cause its a Sony exclusive

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I'll tell you where they went.

Once upon a time, video game developers loved single player games. But then money came and they saw that multiplayer made more money. Then when people cried for single player, they made up the perfect excuse to make single player as cheap as possible: open world.

>bigger world
>more quests
>do what you want!

They sound like the perfect video game. But then you see it in action, and you get mediocrity out the ass. Copy pasted quests, spammed empty points, boring terrain, same and a shallow experience. Assassin Creed, Arkham City, Breath of the Wild.

They all fell to the open world meme and all your favorite series will fall to it too. You can thank Minecraft most of all for all this. Selling games to kids with ADD.

>>376494030
>arcade games have always been consistently good one way or another
Arcade games are shit if played outside arcade, literally flashgame tier gameplay.

>>376493843
It's linear and polished, but it's missing that X-factor that separates a good game from a great game.

>>376493405
the only open world game that felt like it had a good story experience to me was sleeping dogs

>>376494026
Well, it's still tonally consistent

>>376494215
it's consistently flavorless grey paste.

If there's one thing I fucking hate about open world is that it absolutely destroys level design.

>>376493534
IMO, linear story games are fine if the level design is non-linear. Thief 1 and 2 are excellent examples of this.

>>376494146
>metal slug
>flash-tier

take that back, faggot.

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>>376494343
there's a reason ocarina of time's temple designs are praised even today

>>376494178
That factor is known as "soul".

>>376493229
Linear has become a dirty word because NEET faggots need a 200 hour long game to justify their purchase.

>>376493229
yeah, linear games rock, there's nothing wrong with short games
what, no, why would I buy the last guardian? or inside? those games are faggot shiit bruh hahahh

Learn from Gothic 2 if you want to get the best of both.

An open world which lets you go anywhere
BUT
You will most likely die if you just walk into the next dark forest because lack of level scaling and hand by hand enemy placement

Shitload of quests and missions to do AND they are all unique with people looking at your social standing before letting you do things - Not just ''Hey this guy is the chosen one this means we can ask him to do literally anything and he will do it''

Crafting System exists BUT ressources are limited so you can't wait 1-2 days for your overpowered plants to regrow. And you also need to learn basic crafting skills before you can do any crafting at all which requires you to spend learnpoints which are also limited.

And Online has no reason to exist in such a setting.

>>376493229
>Where did the linear games go?
Into the 'not nearly as much ROI as multiplayer + loot crates' pile.
The wealth distribution in the world right now does not cater to the one shot game.

>>376494521
It's kind of funny that linear has somehow become synonymous with short, considering Persona 5 is like a 60+ hour game and is linear as it can get without going FF13.

>>376493229
Naughty Dog makes some of the highest selling games period and they're all mostly linear single player experiences.

The older I get the less patience I have for games like Witcher 3 or the one with the bow bitch I don't even remember. Everything just feels like filler.

>>376493843
>nier did this kind of story first
>nier also did undertale first

it's kind of bizarre when you think about it.
oh wait no it's not.

>>376494870
>considering Persona 5 is like a 60+ hour game
That's if you play on easy mode and rush like a maniac. People who take their time and do side content will get 100+ hours easily.

>>376494870
Publishers hear that people don't want linear games so they make open world garbage

Why not compromise between both and have STALKER style levels?

>>376494932
I know, but you know there would be people that would immediately say otherwise if I said it was a 100+ hour game, mine took over that long and it was great.

>>376494870
>60+ hour

How the hell does anyone speed through the game that fast first time? I played on Easy and clocked in 140 hours.

>>376493439
The problem with FF13 wasn't that it was linear. The problem was that it was horseshit that was even more apparent due to its linearity

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>>376494026
I agree with the spirit of this post but fail to see how linearity has anything to do with shitty world building and character development. FFXV is arguably worse and it's open as fuck.

>>376494128
Pic related

>>376493296
Not really. I love W3, but it's pretty undeniably it would have been much better with smaller and more dense hubs and a smaller quantity yet a higher quality of quests.

>>376494870

It turns out linear story progression is alright, it's when you spend most of it literally running in a straight line when it gets irritating.

>>376495159
How the fuck do you make higher quality of quests compared to what w3 offers you?

>>376494178
>>376494464
Such vague contrarian bullshit

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>>376493448
I hope you're proud anon. Now I have to clean my monitor.

>>376494128
dude that made one of those long fallout 4 reviews talked about how modern devs are desperate to make games that have "endless" content, like they're scared that someone is gonna stop playing their game. modern devs are beyond retarded.
what i hate is how open world shit is like an industry standard now, like first thing you decide about your game is that it's gonna be open world and have some crafting system in it, everything else is an afterthought. good thing i have a gigantic backlog of old games that i'm probably not gonna finish in a couple of decades, so, as far as i'm concern, the modern gaming industry can go to hell.

>>376495301
It's not contrarian at all. The Last of Us was forgotten within a month of release.

>>376495336
concerned*

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>>376495336
I like to think the game industry crashed a long time ago and we're just riding the waves of normie-only games right now. Nintendo is the only video game company left, but they make products for mostly kids and people who can't stop buying Nintendo products.

The genuine nature of the golden age of video games is gone. Not unless something dramatic happens.

>>376495314
Bitch, your eyes are awful. I'm staring at those tits until they pop out by willpower alone.

>>376495289

No one can ever answer because you can boil down any quest regardless of how great it is to a "fetch quest" or "go kill this"

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>>376495301
>not thinking TLoU is the greatest game ever automatically makes you a contrarian

Give me a fucking break.

The shooting is alright but nothing amazing, the AI isn't very good and the stealth kinda sucks. All this culminates in an experience that, while decent, doesn't make any kind of lasting impact. At least not for me.

>>376495186
you find mario irritating?

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>>376495289

>>376495505

>neon colored bugle boy shirts
>frosted jeans
>tucked tshirt into pants

most 1988-1991 picture ever.

>>376493229
Got made and twisted into shit I. Which overly elaborate borderline dumb set pieces are what is now considered linear. Which sucks not because it exist but because often times the set prices in which linear games are build around now a days severely limit or out right take control away from the player. Meaning that he cool and tightly designed shit is more so designed to be watched I steadbof played which for an interactive medium is hella stupid and lame to do

>>376495621
I agree that that's good quest design but I don't agree that it's solely because of the fact that it's challenging. It's a good quest because it gives you multiple way to complete, but doesn't explicitly tell the player that.

>>376495441
Haha what

>>376495621

>really fucking hate quest markers
>turning them off isn't an improvement because the braindead game design doesn't give any context otherwise

Completely open world games are too chaotic and lack direction that gives you a reason for playing. The best open world games give you the option to go off the path the game is laying out for you, but you have to be careful you don't get your shit pushed in by enemies that are too powerful for you.

Fallout 1, 2, New Vegas, and Breath of the Wild are great examples of how open world design should be done.

Well you gotta define linear. Walk straight forward through a single corridor for the entire game, that shit is outdated and shouldn't exist these days except maybe in indie nostalgia games.

>>376495441
Regardless of your opinion on the game, this claim is total bullshit. Just look at all the Part 2 Trailer views across youtube. People still talk about it after 4 years.

>>376495578
That's a better critique than saying vague bullshit like "it doesn't have a soul."

>>376493229
Prey just released

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>>376495780
>Breath of the Wild
stopped you there. breath of the wild had the blueprint of a good open world game, but never managed to go through with it. The content was lacking and very lazy, and the game had other problems that was caused by the bad hardware in general. Zelda should just return to the linear dungeon design. It was working and no one asked for this.

>>376495771
>>376495823
There's nothing to talk about. It's a standard third person shooter with nothing particularly interesting about it.

>>376495823
>That's a better critique than saying vague bullshit like "it doesn't have a soul."

Thanks, but I'm not the one that said that.

>>376495870
I couldn't agree more, but that doesn't change the fact that people is still talking about it, for better or for worse.

>>376494178
>X-factor
WEW FUCKIN LAD LET THE MEME TIMES ROLL

>>376495936
They aren't still talking about it. They're talking about the sequel, because it isn't out yet. And then a month after the sequel is out, people will stop talking about it.

>>376493229
People bitched about shitty linear level design and devs found out it's easier to make empty open world games that actually construct well-thought-out and detailed levels that aren't just corridors. A linear game can have a straight-forward story or single path with which you progress through the game, but the individual levels can be complicated or open in design with branching paths or even involve hubs into the mix; where as a linear level is just that, a straight-forward level with a single path. It's like comparing the more complicated, open, or diverse maps of classic FPS games to the more straight-forward, narrow, or washed-out same-y maps of modern FPS games; I think that people don't want linear levels, they just want linear games with complex levels and for devs to finally make an actual effort at level design again.

The economy has been in the toilet for years and open world games last longer, so budget-conscious consumers want to buy the games with the largest amount of potential playtime.

>>376494026
>People shit on FFXII a lot for being clunky, but at least that has a setting and characters that can be fucking understood and enjoyed
No it doesn't. FFXII was vomited out.

>>376496065
We already fucking recovered to pre-2008 levels.

>>376493229

>linearity

Go watch a movie or read a book. Clearly this medium is not for you.

>>376493328
no

>>376496065
It's not the economy. It's strictly the fault of ROI practices for the business. I worked with Sony as a programmer before. I know how their business sense is for most of the big developers.

protip: all these AAA companies could make hot risky games if they cut off a lot of the fat by firing the people who are wasting space and money, get rid of the feminists, and downright remove anyone who isn't actually working on a game. That will kill 50% of the staff overnight, which is exactly what needs to happen.

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>>376495870
>its standard
Yeah it doesn't have that GAME FEEL amiright?

>>376495780
>Breathe of the Wild
Really good mechanics and a fun game, but a really shallow open word. It's on par with a Ubisoft game.

What New Vegas did right was not expect the player to aimlessly wander around the wasteland like a retard. It has a really good balance between questing and exploring. Every location felt unique and had something tied to it. Quests were open ended too. On the other hand, Fallout 4 and Skyrim both had linear quests padded out with an open world filled with dungeons giving you generic loot.

>>376495621
Do I need to play Gothic 1 to get Gothic 2 or can I just jump right in?

>>376495860
Breath of the Wild still follows good open world design philosophies. Whether or not the content is any good is beside the point.

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>>376496008
The remaster that came out a year later was one of the best selling games for the ps4. This isn't even a discussion about the merits of the game. The fact is, people talked about it and continue to, the game wasn't just a fad for a month like so many triple A titles. That claim is completely and utterly false. The game even had huge success in Japan. I don't know why you refuse to believe it.

>>376496127
The worst most normie argument in history

>>376495860
I think breath of the wild was close to getting it right. Just needed a lot less Shrines, and a lot more proper Dungeons. Maybe drop the puzzles, too, and focus more on combat.

>>376494908
Nier did neither of them as well as the other two did theirs. I'm not saying that either of them are better games, but Nier was a middle ground and TLOU and UT are extremes.

>>376496476
I didn't say it sold poorly. I said that everyone forgot it after release.

>>376496476
Not to mention, the online community still exists. I played a few matches last month and didn't have any issue finding players.

>>376496446
The very first rule of open world design that most open world games have failed completely in, including botw is:

if you are having the player explore, actually have them find something to be rewarded from that exploration. In botw, everything is only a korok seed or a heart. The shrines offer no amount of exploration reward due to how unconnected they are from the world and the seeds are literally there just force you to pick up rocks or do some other ADHD exercise. The game was literally made for Minecraft players.

If you were able to walk through Lake Hylia, and find an entrance into the ancient Water Temple, it would have been a hella lot more interesting than what we got.

>>376493534
open world meme is never gonna end because of breath of the wild and all of the underaged people only buying open world games.

>>376496523
Zelda needs to stop trying to make combat different. Zelda games always put combat second. Combat was only important during boss battles, and that was mostly more about solving a puzzle. We have too many games these days that do combat better than the kid stuff in Zelda.

>>376495621
>tfw I killed the orc
I felt so stupid after I found out that you didn't have to

>>376496606
If anything, it's more of a fault of the game not educating the player that there's more ways than one to solving a quest.

>>376496116
>We already fucking recovered to pre-2008 levels.
You think that, but you're wrong. The global economy is still in bad shape.

>>376496638
No.

>>376493229
>Where did the linear games go?
people bitched about they are linear.
now, people are bitching about open world games

>>376496634
on the upside, killing orcs became easier afterwards

>>376493296

I disagree. I think it suffered from having an open world design more than it benefited, even if it didn't get dragged down completely by it.

I have yet to see an open world game that truly takes advantage of being that type of game, rather than succeeding in spite of it.

>>376493505
Lol, the story and the "atmosphere" are also entry level baby tier writing, makes companies like Bioware look like literary geniuses. Hang yourself

Does people really think linear games were better?

Open world was a mistake for Witcher.

What made Witchers witchers is the idea of preparation, monster hunting, meditation all and kinds of beastiary stuff. With the game being open world and enemies (different enemy types at that) being everywhere constantly, they had to change the potion/oil system to short term buffs in a way it would work with the open-world system. While it worked, it broke all the immersion.

I wish Witcher 3 had a smaller but a much more detailed world, allowing no compromises from the material it's based on.

>>376496257
He's not wrong, as a TPS TLoU doesn't do anything particularly interesting. RE4 has more satisfying guns and shooting, and that game came out 8 years prior. It only starts getting fun when you dip into the multiplayer.

>>376496807
You must've played on normal, and went in guns blazing.Its not simply a third person shooter.Thats not even the genre.

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>>376496540
People don't buy remastered versions of games in such huge numbers that they had "forgot about" after a month. And for that matter, I can't think of many games that

>>376496909
It's even less interesting on the higher difficulties.

>>376496926
Most of the people who bought the "remastered" version never bought it on PS3 to begin with.

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>>376495621
>fetch quest
>good

>>376496972
Why do you think new people bought it? Why would they buy a game that everyone forgot about/doesn't care about?

>>376493843
>crafting system

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Linear and open world obviously aren't inherently good or bad, its just that the modern industry has no vision and just slap together a bunch of marketing buzz words and call it a game, linear games devolved in to CoD style shooter campaigns instead of meticulously crafted experiences and open world devolved in to desolate mgsv like worlds

>>376493229
/v/ 7 years ago
>hurr durr linearity hurr durr scripts
/v/ now
>hurr durr open world hurr durr crafting

make up your mind already

>>376493229
Never thought I'd see the day where people start praising linearity in video games. That's just so retarded.

>>376496423
Feel free to skip 1st, there are lot of npc from first game in the 2nd, but npc usually can feel you in on the old stuff.

>>376496602
"Puzzle" bosses are groan-worthy game design that needs to stop already.

>>376497000
>quest that isn't fetch
>ever

>>376493448
NICE ONE

>>376497319
>>376497464
It's almost like the video-game industry is a new and evolving medium.

>>376497464
In a situation of choice between the two opposites without any other alternatives both of these opposites will be complete shit.

>>376493534
when people realize "closer to simulation" does not make a better video game

>>376496743
Uhh, GTA?

>>376497782
That's why it's retarded to want it to devolve.

>>376497782
video games don't undergo random genetic mutations

>>376493278
This guy gets it. Semi-open world with very polished main path and additional side content is better than linear path only or aimless open world where "you can do anything".

>>376498079
Linearity isn't inherently bad, just like open-world.

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>>376497782
>video-game industry is a new and evolving medium.
You wish, almost everything that can be done has been done that's why keep seeing the same series revived and rehashed over and over again with maybe 1 or 2 slight changes to the mechanics.

Video games have become a mature medium and now we a going to see the exact same shit from now until we die

>>376497464
>>376497319
It's /v/ being contrarian again. "Open world is inherently bad" is a meme that blew up with MGS 5's disappointing release. Of course nu-reddit-/v/ wouldn't know so they keep parroting it.

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>>376498384
>rogue-likes
>idle games
>MOBAs
>virtual reality

Hmmmmm....

>>376496521

>tight
film and literature only show you what the author wants to show you, at its intended pace

>tonally consistent
same

>highly polished
debatable and subjective, just like for games

>linear
same as tight

>single player
yup

>experience
yup

OP is a faggot who is basically whining that games aren't books/film.

>>376498448
>MOBAs
>rouge-likes
anon is posting from 2011

The only new thing on the horizon is VR, you are right there

>>376497782
>It's almost like the video-game industry is a new and evolving medium.

Games have been around for thousands of years. Shifting platform to electronic devices and backlit displays doesn't undo the rule-based competition foundation.

People who think video games are "new" are retarded.

>>376498579
>VR
>new
Pick one.

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>>376493229
>tight, tonally consistent and highly polished

>>376495621
Lately I've been playing Vanilla WoW, I really love the feeling of discovering crap and how hard it is to actually finish some quests without mods, specially when you know nothing about it.

>Arrive at desolace.
>No fucking idea where the town is, only hint given by a quest is that is east of the map.
>Have to ask the Guild.
>Tells me is east.
>There's only mountains and if you follow the path through them you arrive to a high-level raid zone.
>Turns out you have to walk south of the mountains because the town has only one access point (unless you count swimming for 10 minutes).

Also I like how the map blank and you have to explore to reveal it. You have to read the quests to know what to do and where to go.

One quest that really stood out is one about some guy who lost a cargo, it requires you to acquire 4 items, 2 of them you get them by killing things, another one is just sitting in a nearby chest and the last one requires you to go on yet another quest to bring an asshole three items, one of them requires you to go to a high-level zone making the travel dangerous as fuck.

Also there has never been a good escort mission in the history of vidya.

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>>376493328
fr nibba?

Can someone actually name a good game that wasn't even semi open world released in the past 10 years?

I honestly can't. Linear games haven't been good since the dawn of 3D. There better be an open map you let me explore or your game is shit.

>>376493545
That isn't fair, the first 10 chapters of ff13 are tutorial. Try actually playing through the game and you'll see that.

Can someone actually name a good game released in the past 10 years?

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>>376498973

>>376498910
Tomb Raider... that's actually the only one I can think of but my shitty toaster won't allow me to play that many games, anyway.

I would also name XCOM but that would be cheating because it doesn't apply for the genre.

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Games set in open worlds used utilize that as a strength and were generally non-linear.
Now it just means that the main story missions are in these conspicuously more detailed areas with the rest of the map filled in with busywork "resource gathering".

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I'm just here to politely remind you that there are numerous websites developed especially for normalfag cancer like you. As such I must ask you to either fuck off back to one of those containment areas, or to kill yourself.

>>376499018
I bet you weren't even aware that the game is open world after chapter 10.

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>>376493229
East

>>376499069
Both nu-Tomb Raiders are pseudo-open worlds but they're also good examples of how to utilize the open world meme without turning everything into shit just for it's sake.

>>376499101
And how much time does the average person spend on those 10 chapters on their first playthrough?

>>376499101
There's one area that is open, right after that is the final area and boss which is linear. I enjoyed Gran Pulse very much but the first 40 hours were a huge slog.

>>376499189
Like 25 hours. I'm not saying that it's good design but it is pretty obviously a stretched out tutorial.

It's why everyone shits on the game. There's easily more than 70 hours of content after ch. 10 though.

>>376499261
I sure as hell wouldn't want to sit through a 25 hour boring ass tutorial. It's simply not worth the investment.

>>376499434
Depends if you like the combat system or not. I think it's pretty great.

But my point was that it's ironic that it's considered the most linear game ever when it is in fact an open world game.

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81KB, 737x621px

>>376499556

>>376493278
spbp
Witcher 1 and 2 are perfect examples of this.
Hitman is the same in a sense.

>>376494090
>Midcore gameplay. Over rated cause its an exclusive
ftfy
All exclusives for any platform are almost always better than multiplats, though.

>>376495668
Best time really. Then the soviet union fell and we had to accept the horrifying reality that there'd be no nuclear annihilation to save us and we were stuck on this fucked up planet for life.

>>376498791
smash dat lyk if u up

>>376498731
>Also there has never been a good escort mission in the history of vidya.
This shit can can work only in party based games where you control over this character.

>>376499109
Persona 5 is not tight or tonally consistent, Anon. The game drags on for literally no reason but to pad the length.