Why was Skyrim so bad?

It wasn't Oblivion 2.0.

A big puddle does not a luxurious swimming pool make.

someone post that image comparing how shit skyrim was to oblivion

Fallout 3 ruined Bethesda

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>>376400134
It is shallow. In Daggerfall, another randomisation galore, there was a plethora of great systems underneath that balanced out the same-ness (character traits, spellmaking, guild reputation, etc.). Skyrim has none of that, and yet it dares to go full random on me.

However, that's what people want, so it's hard to blame the managers. It's foolish to expect anything deep from modern AAA gamedev.

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>>376400321
>>376400260
>>376400152
And that's what people actually believe.. amazing.

Skyrim *was* Oblivion 2.0, and it was as shit as Oblivion was when compared to Daggerfall and Morrowind. There are some things that are better in Oblivion (some quests, Shivering Isles), and some that were better in Skyrim (area design, perks), but all in all they were modernised consoleturds made for modern gaymerrs.

>>376400152
Oblivion is fucking garbage

>>376400562
>and some that were better in Skyrim (perks)

shouldn't you be donating to your favorite CoD twitch streamer?

>>376400562
Jesus Christ this entire post
Fucking go back and stop trying to fit in

>>376400656
If you're not into games that require hardcore role playing then I guess.

>>376400848
I know that this is bait, but please stop. You might give people ideas.

Extremely bland landscape characters weapons spells

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>>376400134
So many missed opportunities.
>>376400152
at least it didn't fuck up the lore as badly as Oblivion, thank christ for that

>>376400903
And quests
And story
And... Well everything but the music. But most of that came from previous games too.

>>376400134
It's the same tes shit.

>>376400897
Ok you got me. I was hoping someone would take the bait on hardcore role playing.

>>376400134

I unironically enjoyed 170 hours of skyrim and thought it was the best thing ever

im a sucker for atmosphere and they nailed that at least

>>376400134
>>376400152
Skyrim is the natural progression from Oblivion - a casualised action "RPG".

See, this right here (>>376400972) is called shit taste, sports. Try to stay away from people like this so you don't become like them.

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combat was clunky and slow like in every bethesda game. all you need to do is mash the attack button. theres no need for any kind of strategy in combat. Because of this you couldn't take any of the big and "epic" fights seriously.also the all caves and the such were the same with minimal differences

>>376400796

You do know Oblivion had perks too, right? Every skill has four.

>>376401005
Christ have mercy on me.. but no. If you look at Oblivion, it is certainly more casual than Morrowind (just as Morrowind is more casual than Daggerfall), but the leap from Oblivion to Skyrim is not natural. Oblivion, as shitty as it is, is still an RPG. Calling Skyrim an RPG is a bit of a stretch. It's just as much an RPG as all the other tedious open world sandbox action games that plague the industry, like Shadow of Mordor, Assassins Creed, Horizon and so forth, you know the kind.

>>376401110

go play mariokart faggot

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>>376400134
The worst problem was the complete lack of any sense of accomplishment. You did the same shit over and over again, and nothing ever felt exciting.
Have you ever had a great combat experience in this game? Have you ever gone "fuck yeah" over finding something great?
You do pretty much nothing but fight, but fighting is so shallow that you approach a rat and a dragon in the same way. That's why everyone always talks about stealth archers - it's the only way to get a bit of excitement in combat. Then you have to aim the arrow and keep in the shadows and think about where and how to strike. It's not deep, but it's much more interesting than melee or magic.
The story isn't good, the quests aren't interesting, the combat is bland, the rewards you get are unsatisfying... the only thing it's got going for it is a massive world. And once you realize that nothing you do matter in any way that loses its appeal too.

>>376401131
They are just called perks in name but function differently than Skyrim, CoD and other AAA game perks.

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>>376400134
What did you just say!?

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>>376400848
>Oblivion
>Hardcore role playing

Because it removed retarded "attributes" which made no gameplay difference?

>>376400134
>game isn't a 9/10 or higher in my books, therefore it's not only not amazing but it's terrible
Love this logic

It was really mediocre. What's the point of exploring when none of the quests are engaging and the vistas repetitive? If the whole game consisted of that one quest with the hunter becoming a werewolf or the Daedric Princes, then I'd be much more kind to it like I'm with Oblivion.

>>376401342
newfag spotted

>LE CONTRARIAN REDDITORS

>>376401139
Oblivion too was an action RPG but one that retained more RPG elements while Skyrim went even further. They both butchered the series in many ways, from mechanics, to story, to lore,...

>>376401306

Why are they different? Because you don't pick and choose but get them automatically? Skyrim reuses a good deal of them and adapts most of the rest that aren't just copied and pasted as well as adding a ton of new ones. This is just an objective improvement to a system that already existed, it's not "casualization".

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>>376401476
>newfag spotted
How about you buy my game first?

>>376400134
The only good part of Oblivion was the quests. Skyrim was Oblivion with the quest design handed to a random number generator.

The only problem with Skyrim is that it still has alchemy exploits

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>>376400134
no stats
less skills
less weapons
less spells
quick travel to anywhere from anywhere
quest markers
same shitty combat system as ever
they hype up "dragons" as the big threat, one of the first quests is you and a bunch of grunts bashing a dragon down

True. But let's be honest, it wasn't like the quests in Oblivion were that good overall. There were a couple of good ones, but most were dull.
It's just that Skyrim was even worse.

>>376400972
>atmosphere

What atmosphere? Go play Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines for that. The NPCs in Skyrim felt like actors rather than people with their own lives. The world was lifeless, everything revolved around the Dragon Born, who could become the leader of a dozen guilds in no time at all, and none of the other characters had any agency or even desires or personalities of their own.

No

Had it been bad it would be like ride to hell retribution in that it is laughable and would make the company reconsider

Skyrim was worse than bad, it was mediocre
Everything is half assed, tossed without care and without planning. Dumbed down to hell for anyone to play without thinking about how it balances out and how it affects gameplay. A boring stupid set of quests that solely exists to congratulate the player and make it feel super special with high reward akin to fast food.
The fact that gameplay mods that just change the available perks tremendously increase the quality of the game is something shameful

>>376400134
Game so hyped you really expect 10/10 game.
In reality it's at best 8/10 2016 action game with RPG elements but with totally uninteresting plot line where there are 2-3 interesting characters that have max 5 minutes of screen time.
Also dungeons feel totally repetitive after just 5-6 locations visited out of like 100.

>>376400134
No, not really.

>>376401676
So, not a single actual issue with the game

>>376400134
A pelthora of things,
But mostly
>level scaling

>>376400134
>why is a Bethesda game bad

>>376401273

yes

> Have you ever had a great combat experience in this game? Have you ever gone "fuck yeah" over finding something great?

- Kiting giants while severely underlevelled
- Bleak falls barrow
- First Dragon fight and the DOHVAHKIN on the way back... I could feel it coming from the mountain.. it was Boy I raced up there eager to explore the next step in my journey
- Being sent on the first Imperial mission to solo capture a fort
- Many, many of the dungeons with a word or skill book at the end, and some kind of scene depicted by the remains/objects in the environment.
- Doing a full fort or dense cave in stealth style
- The first dwarven dungeon I found and the golem fight at the end
- That trickster god whatever his name is
- Lighthouse quest
- Azuras star
- Stealing half the objects in a town
- Finding sleeping dragons in the mountains and psyching up for the fight, planning your cover and such


I mean, what the fuck were you doing in each of these parts? Maybe you are just a miserable person with nothing to make you happy?

>>376401849
too obvious mate.

>>376401851
spotted the underage

>>376400134
If you didn't enjoy Skyrim you are either a
1) Die hard RPG enthusiast who enjoys games like Baldur's Gate and Planescape (this one is ok)
2) Huge contrarian faggot

It fucking baffles me that /v/ now likes Fallout 3 and Oblivion. Yes Skyrim and Fallout 4 are pretty fucking mediocre, but FO3 and Oblivion are actually legit horrible games.

Is it because the new wave of kids grew up with them, or something?

>>376401903
the only thing which is obvious is that you are much less smart that you think about yourself

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>>376401849
if you dont think those are issues you are part of the target audience, enjoy

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>>376401791
>A boring stupid set of quests that solely exists to congratulate the player and make it feel super special
So its just like any quest in every rpg there is?

>>376401989
And if I completed Ultima I without guides few years ago, what then?

>>376401970
Did YOU grow up with Skyrim or something? Oblivion is better than Skyrim and F3 is closer to Fallout than 4 was, even by the thinnest thread imaginable.

>>376401970
Because you are the only carrier of "Oblivion is horrible" meme remaining

>>376402072
Skyrim is better than Oblivion but that doesn't mean Oblivion was horrible

Even as a newfag to ES I found the cities in Skyrim to be so ridiculously underwhelming. None of them felt special or aesthetically pleasing. At best Windhelm and Markarth had interesting concepts or layouts, but there were so many missed opportunities presumably due to engine limitations.

Solitude is tiny for what it really should be and its huge walls defeat what could've been a gorgeous clifftop view from it. Riften could've been so much greater with just one or two more streets separated by canals.

I really hope they address this shit and focus on making the cities in TES6 impressive.

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>>376401971

>>376401920
How is disliking level scaling a sign of youth?
Levelscaling is a huge part of why I enjoyed oblivion and skyrim less than morrowind

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>>376400903
>landscape
Landscape is the only thing that skyrim did right though. There are mild foresty areas, snowy areas, tundra, swamp area, sub-polar area.
It's bland in the sense that it's realistic-ish but I think that within the scope of what they aimed to do - that being quasi scandinavia - they did a really good job.

>>376401898
>I mean, what the fuck were you doing in each of these parts? Maybe you are just a miserable person with nothing to make you happy?

Hey, good for you if you liked the game - really, not being sarcastic.
I just didn't find any of that engaging. Okay, perhaps finding a new word, since that actually had impact, but in the end most of what you did didn't really matter.
I want the stuff I do to have gameplay consequences. It's not enough to go through a dungeon that looks cool and fighting something unique at the end, if the dungeon is filled with boring combat, the unique monster doesn't do anything new and the treasure at the end ends up being sold 95% of the time.
Give me a reason to care about what happens, a reason that affects gameplay in a meaningful way.

>>376400134
It wasn't bad at all. Skyrim offered a gigantic world to explore and enjoy at your leisure. In a lot of ways it was like Fallout 3; you could run in a random direction and eventually find something interesting.

A lot of the quest chains were underwhelming though. Some places like the Assassins Guild were fleshed out to the extreme but others like the Mage Guild were rotting dogshit. The graphical bugs also shit on any sense of immershun that game had.

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>>376402048
what does that have to do with anything?

>>376402179
Because extreme level scaling has been signature of TES games since Daggerfall

>>376402183
Agreed. If nothing else, it's more interesting than Oblivion.

>>376402228
The target audience of Skyrim are people who enjoy playing Ultima I in 2012? Is that what you were trying to say?

>>376402072
No, I grew up with Morrowind and FO1/2

>>376402130
>meme

fuck off, not an argument

>>376402183
I love how three of the five that you named are all "grey, snowy wasteland." Skyrim was ugly.

>>376401993
Nope

Because the quests are too easy and escalate too quickly, giving too high rewards and have no consistency

Becoming the champion of a daedric prince should be a huge difficult ordeal. Becoming the director of the magic academy in just one hour of gameplay is fucking asinine. Becoming the leader of the thief guild, warriors and mages at the same time is a joke
Not to mention being able to become the champion of all daedric princes, specially between those who are enemies.

>>376402349
morrowind was massive casualisation of Daggerfall

>>376402258
Is it?
I thought the enemies in morrowind were pretty static.
So I could get my shit kicked in the one cave, and dominate like a god in the other

The state of always being just about evenly matched and vendors randomly starting to sell rare armor made nothing feel special to me

>>376402440
And somehow more unplayable than daggerfall

>>376402258
>a signature since Daggerfall
Morrowind has extremely limited level scaling restrictired only to a few types of roaming creatures and monsters, and it doesn't level scale NPCs or loot at all.

>>376400134
Go back and play Baldur's Gate 2 and come to your own conclusions. Graphics shouldn't be the focus of RPGs. (even though BG2 is pretty stunning IMO)

>>376402427
>Becoming the champion of a daedric prince should be a huge difficult ordeal.
Becoming daedric worshipper in-univerese is more question of being crazy enough than actual ordeal
>Becoming the director of the magic academy in just one hour of gameplay is fucking asinine.
They have radiant quests, just pad every actual quest with 5 of them
>Becoming the leader of the thief guild, warriors and mages at the same time is a joke
Don't become then? You know about thing called role-playing? Just because game rules allow you something doesnt mean you should do it.

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>>376402325
the target audience of skyrim is people that didnt play earlier elder scrolls games/are fine with paying 60 dollars for a casualized version with improved graphics, that would include you

>>376400134
It's the best game in its franchise.

Its main problem was not having very interesting quests, and crashing constantly like every bethshit game does.

>>376401898
>Finding sleeping dragons in the mountains and psyching up for the fight, planning your cover and such
This has to have been your first elder scrolls game. If it wasn't you would be far too used to chugging potions and mashing the attack button to give a shit about psyching yourself up.

>>376402521
Except morrowind has extreme level scaling in many places, with high tier monsters sometimes completely replacing lower tiers the moment they become available. It's just that they were too lazy to add monster types for levels past 20.

>>376402669
And if I played all TES games since Arena and enjoyed Skyrim, what then?

>>376402487
>I thought the enemies in morrowind were pretty static.
It's a mix. I don't know the exact proportion, but there's still leveled lists for enemies, loot, etc.

>>376401119
This is what I was thinking; could you ever describe anybody as 'good' at Skyrim?

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>>376402741
then you fall in the second category

>>376402780
People who can exploit alchemy, perhaps?

>>376402802
So the target audience of Skyrim are sane, normal people? Explains a lot.

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How do we cut consoles out of the vidya equation?

>>376402741
The level scaling bollocks is the most cancerous thing to happen to RPGs. Whoever thought it was a good idea is a communist.

There was nothing like struggling through a arduous dungeon you weren't supposed to be in in RPGs pre-Oblivion.

>>376400134
Consoles. It's always dumbing everything down for the retarded console users

>>376402521

Morrowind does scale container loot.

Here's the way it works in Morrowind, anything hand places is fixed, e.g. NPCs, hand placed objects, etc. Anything that is spawned is leveled, e.g. wildlife, contents of containers, etc.

>>376402604
>Becoming daedric worshipper in-univerese is more question of being crazy enough than actual ordeal
You don't become a worshipper you become the champion which in the lore is always a huge deal.
>They have radiant quests, just pad every actual quest with 5 of them
Do you honestly think adding meaningless filler improves anything about the game? Wow I just did hundred fluff quests I can't wait to see how much better the game is after two hundred!
>Don't become then? You know about thing called role-playing? Just because game rules allow you something doesnt mean you should do it.
And deny yourself even more of the little content that exists in this game. Become the grand master of every guild is meaningless, there is no roleplaying because the world doesn't not react to and has nothing to do with your roleplay at all, you're just roleplaying despite the game around you.

>>376402906
By not purchasing consoles.

That said, I still plan to.

>>376402928
Level scaling is literally fundamental to RPG design, I mean there are fucking tables for scaling encounters in DnD.
The only alternative to level scaling is exponentially increasing XP rewards for killing monsters, so killing single orc compensates for skipping killing 100 rats.

>>376402830
That doesn't require skill though, just a look at a wiki page. Skyrim has an incredibly low skill ceiling, there is no 'gitting gud' beyond levelling your character and spamming whatever health potion is bound to.

>>376402891
A lot of normies were talking about Skyrim when it came out, so it did it's job. But if you want to autist-out, TES is a bridge you have to burn. No depth, completing all the quest lines is such an absurd idea that I don't really buy into it.

Even in Oblivion, which I loved, it got a bit ridiculous.

>>376402225
>you could run in a random direction and eventually find something interesting.
That wasn't my experience at all. You can run in any direction in Skyrim you'll just end up at another carbon copy draugr ruin or dragon fight. The actual towns and camps strewn about have no character to stand on their own which is why whenever a Skyrim fan tries to defend the world design they default to Blackreach.

>>376402996
don't forget meaningless fluff quests for terrible rewards, maybe this time you'll get some gloves with a 2% smithing bonus?!

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>>376402891
yes, its the same reason most games are shit these days, developers try to appeal to normalfags

>>376402996
>You don't become a worshipper you become the champion which in the lore is always a huge deal.
So what? You enter magic guild in Morrowind and after few fetch quests you have higher rank than people who were there for many months. It's how games work.
>Do you honestly think adding meaningless filler improves anything about the game?
It's how Daggerfall basically worked as a game.
>there is no roleplaying because the world doesn't not react to and has nothing to do with your roleplay at all, you're just roleplaying despite the game around you.
So it's literally like Morrowind.

>>376403071
Sure, it's too simple to really learn and get good at.
I mentioned alchemy because that's really the only point where you can find some depth - and it's not that deep.
But yeah, you could suck at it if you can't control the aiming or something, but you can't really be great at it.

>>376402996
Thanks anon, your answer is exactly what I was about to say

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>>376400134
Garbage game engine.

Also bethesda is filled with incompetent people. They made Fallout 4 look decent with the help of ID, but that's it..

>>376403032
Well, it sucks in TES game. Whether it's fundamental to RPG design or not I got magnitudes more enjoyment out of game without that shit in it. Or maybe the way it's implemented in modern TES is kinda stupid.

All of a sudden encountering bandits in full ebony is a bit stupid, you have to admit.

>>376403173
Rather appeal to normies than edgy kissless weebs that posts shit-tier "art" on imageboards.

>>376400134
Aside from the obvious

My biggest gripe was that the faction questlines seemed to be so isolated from the rest of the game and each other.

It's like they had whole teams dedicated each faction that there was no cooperation and intermingling with the storylines.

>>376402891
Boring people

The kind of people who, upon given the pc version of Skyrim the first thing they do is to check the console command and spawn themselves the best armor and weapon at level 1

>>376402440
>>376402497
Yeah, naah. Daggerfall was an endless mess of identical buildings and npcs. Quests which would only be well told to you once before leaving you with nothing but bread crumbs to figure out what they meant and dungeons a random number generator vomited out. The over world was a colossal load of identical nothing not that you could tell because the draw distance put Silent Hill to shame.
Daggerfall was buggy trash only notable for its scale.

>>376403286
You know other game engines which allow for extensive easy modding by nonprofessional crowd and which are not shit according to you?

>>376403141
>you'll just end up at another carbon copy draugr ruin
What do you want? An unique architectural style and unique clutter for each of the 100+ dungeons? Stop shitposting.

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>>376403330
where do you think you are?

>>376402774
There are level lists for when a monster will start showing up however a bonewalker will always be a bone walker there was no draugr deathlord nonsense. Also the player could fuck themselves by accidentally summoning dremora lords at level one by trying to steal from Daedric Shrines.

>>376403298
There are extremely few CRPG which do not have level scaling in some form, and one of them is Diablo II

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>>376403404
>>>/jp/

>>376400134
Because it was fucking boring. There's nothing to do.

>finish three quests in MAJOR CITY A (only five buildings)
>walk across barren wasteland for sixteen years where you maybe encounter a single mammoth and if you're lucky a rabbit or fox
>arrive at MAJOR CITY B (now with eleven buildings and sixteen NPCs!)
>return to barren wasteland after finishing every single quest in under half an hour

I don't understand how people can play this and think they're actually having fun. For fuck's sake, we played shit games as children because we were children and didn't understand they were shit. You're a fucking adult by now. Learn when something is dogshit and stop wasting your time on trying to make it better.

>>376403335
Also the main quest doesn't have any really natural break points in it; in Morrowind at several times you were literally told to go off and do some other stuff later and then come back when you felt ready.

>>376403141
>which is why whenever a Skyrim fan tries to defend the world design they default to Blackreach

I don't do that. I defend it by referring to all the small "stories" that are strewn about the world for you to find. Like the adventurer that went to investigate the disappearances on the road south of Dragonbridge and discovered the Falmer were kidnapping people to feed to chaurus. The couple that decided to elope but wound up killed by a bear. The girl that ignored her father's warning about bathing in forsworn controlled regions and wound up dead. The collapsed prison inhabited by ghosts. The guy who was crushed by a tree while jerking off. Investigating what happened to the family that moved into the lighthouse.

Skyrim is absolutely full of this sort of shit. They aren't quests, they are just little stories for you to discover in the world.

>>376403345
You doofus, literally one of the first replies in this very thread >>376400421 concurs the "same-ness" of Daggerfall and emphasizes how it was able to offer so much more despite that. There is no such systems in TES 4 or 5.

>>376403421
You are wrong. Here is the generic list for tombs, after level 9 skeleton champion completely replaces all undead types.

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>>376403469
>leddit
>facekike
>tumblr
you have alot to choose from, I do not

>>376400134
>it's another "everyone who likes the game is wrong bit we're right episode"

Skyrim is one of the best reviewed games of all time by all corners of the community, from gaming sites to hardcore players to casuals, but yeah, the majority is wrong and you guys are right, fight the power man, far out.

>>376403525
I remember greater bone walkers showing up late game but I'll take your word for it I haven't played Morrowind in years.

>>376403878
Go home Reddit reviews of triple A games have always been worthless and hardcore players such as those on RPG Codex hate the game. It's only people who haven't played enough games to judge them critically that love it.

>>376404018
>hardcore players such as those on RPG Codex hate the game

Does it really matter that people who aren't the target audience don't like the game? That certainly doesn't make it objectively shit.

>>376404018
that's weird because I've never seen any negative comments about skyrim outside of /v/

>>376401737
When most of the dark brotherhood quests involve killing bandits in caves you know shits fucked

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>>376400134
I fucking LOVED it, but its awesome that you don't OP! :3 There's not a whole lot you can do except think about all the people that are having fun with it to this day! :3 Its OKAY though, not everyone has to like everything!! Just play what you LOVE and most importantly have FUN! :D

Awoo~

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>>376404145
Because you don't leave your hugbox. I just named another site that doesn't like it try to keep up.

>>376404145
I don't know if you're serious, I guess it's impossible to tell. If you are, please take a step back and look objectively at the product you paid money for. Ask yourself if it's worth sixty dollars when you could have picked up Oblivion, Morrowind, and Daggerfall cobmined for less than half of that price.

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>>376400134
What the fuck did you just say about my game?

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>>376400152
Why are Oblivionbabbies so delusional their game is equally if not more shit than Skyrim.

>>376400562
>some quests

You mean almost every single quest, right?

>>376402183
That was my thought too. Setting was great. Everything else about the game was shit

>>376400134
The story was awful and the gameplay bad.

I did enjoy the game with a bunch of mods, that made me an invincible naked god with a big dick flopping around.

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>>376403379
>every dungeon is a draugr tomb with the same enemies

Who thought this was an okay idea? Literally ever RPG I've ever played had more variability than Skyrim.

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>>376400134
Dam i Know right i mean look at these ratings
IGN 9 / 10
Game Informer 9.5 / 10
Game Trailers 9.3 / 10
PC Gamer 94%
GameSpot 9 / 10
Fuck they should have just closed the company.

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Oblivion and Morrowind were games with enjoyable core gameplay, but many deeply rooted flaws. Instead of fixing said flaws, Bethesda added a bunch of superfluous shit and went backwards in many areas, like creating more linear, less interesting quests, or limiting character customisation.

>>376400134
Skyrim fucked up when they took out the class component and core skills of previous entries in the series not to mention the fugly character models. I just want to play as an attractive wood elf that relies on hand to hand combat and acrobatics

Because Bethesda wanted to appeal to normies and casuals, and casuals love the most generic and least complex media and games. That's why if sold a lot but was shit.

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>>376411959
>Oblivion and Morrowind were games with enjoyable core gameplay

Fucking kek my man.

>>376411959
>Oblivion and Morrowind
>enjoyable core gameplay

Please be sarcastic.

>>376401476
Ironic isn't it

>>376400134
it was well liked so /v/ contrarians pretend it was bad

>>376400134
It was ok, it was a definate step back from Oblivion and Morrowind though. My worry is with the direction they're taking the FO series that they'll further remove Elder Scrolls from it's RPG roots.

>>376400134
It's still probably the best Elder Scrolls game

>>376400972
>atmosphere
If that's all that matters to you then play Morrowind instead. Way better atmosphere.