Persona 5's Theming

>>376313583
Shido's not Joker's antithesis, that's Akechi. Shido's a somewhat charismatic fuck up who lucked into a third party willing to do whatever it took to put him in a position of power. The real Shido isn't the god king he portrays himself to be in his Palace, but that pathetic drunk guy who gets beat up by a 15 year old and threatens to sue.

Because muh SMT

Because Persona has to end with the party killing a god-like being just like how Persona has to have Navigators in the party and Mascot team mates

Although shooting Yaldabaoth in the face was great I'll admit.

>>376313583
Well Shido was trying to control public opinion and literally make the Phantom Thieves stop existing in their mind. Yaldy wad the true culmination of that mentality. Yaldy's "game" also felt like a homage to Nyarly's "bet"

>>376313583

>Less effective and out of nowhere

Literally, you've been exploring Mementos since the first fucking month in the game. And they steadily build up the fact that people's reactions to the Phantom Thieves' actions are abnormal/there's something more sinister at work.

>read a Persona 5 thread on some forum
>they're crying about the 2 fags in Shinjuku

>>376314038
Rightfully so, why'd we have to get that unfunny joke a second time instead of babehunt mark 3

>>376313774
But that projection of himself versuses the drunk scumbag he really is, is also part of what makes him a great foil to Joker. I think all three of the games villains work as antithesis to the PT.

>>376313913
The fake Igor should have been Nyarly

Meme

>>376313583
Barely any buildup? Except the fact that he was posing as Igor the whole game.

You clearly weren't paying attention.

>>376313774

Was pretty much a god king in Japan though. Even after his fall, all his minions are so fucking scared and deeply rooted in the political and authorities like the police/media that they're literally able to spin the story so people wouldn't give a shit. He brought in so many people that the fallout would cripple a ton of different institutions.

Aketchi should of been the final boss and you know it.

>>376313774
And that's exactly why I think Shido would've made a more compelling final boss; the fact that at the end of the day, he IS kind of pathetic and hubris-driven. The fight feels a lot more personal though than Yaldy.

Akechi might be more of a direct antithesis in the sense that he's one, on the side of "law" versus your side of "chaotic justice", and two, wants to bring people into their apathetic state just like Yaldy, as opposed to the Phantom Thieves who want people to think for themselves and take charge of their own destiny. But Akechi is also, arguably, more sympathetic than Shido, since his game was predicated on the sense that people would finally validate him, considering his literal reason for existing.

>>376314412

The final boss's plans foiled by fucking PANCAKES would be pretty hilarious I admit. I was able to catch the pancake line when you first meet the guy and was suspicious about him the entire game so it cracked me up when they actually set in motion his downfall literally from that reference.

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>>376313583
You were disappointed because the final boss grooms you the entire game. Without him, you would never be able to beat him.

>>376314382
It's easy to rise to the top when you have access to something like the Metaverse. He could anticipate and cause controversy or just outright murder his opponents. It's easy to say Shido knows what he's talking about with that transportation minister when subways start going off the rails. Same for the PTs and their downfall.

>>376314198
He's basically cognitive copy, Nyarly is everyone's shadow personified and Yaldabaoth is everyone's shadow's desires personified.

>>376314637

He didn't have direct access to the metaverse, just the research behind it. He still needed an agent in the from of Akechi to do all the heavy lifting and without Akechi, he'd literally have no way of affecting anything from within the metaverse.

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>>376313583
>why wasn't a human the final boss in a persona game
So you've never played an SMT and don't know what they're about. Got it.

>Shido was built up as the protag's antithesis
No, dipshit, the foil/antithesis was Akechi.

Shido is a roadblock for Akira, nothing more.

A RIVER IN A DRY LAND

THE LAST ACE IN A LOST HAND

WHEN THE HOPE OF NEW BEGINNINGS BURNED OUR FEET

Is this the second best boss them in the series? After Battle for Everyone's Souls of course.

>>376315124
>Persona 5
>SMT

>>376314321
>>376313936
I'm kind of iffy on this argument. Mementos is introduced early in the game as the palace of the collective people's unconscious (like the TV world in P4? How does this universe even work?) but barely ever extends past that within the game's story We get some random nightmares from Morgana that suggest a darker side to him connected to Mementos somehow, but I don't think consider that to be proper buildup. The idea is planted in our heads that Mementos will eventually become more important, but it doesn't feel natural. We go there from time to time to solve side missions given to us by Mishima, but that's about it.

Then later in the game, when Shido is defeated but people still aren't willing to listen and are denying themselves the truth, I immediately picked up on the fact that Mementos would play its role there and then. But my issue is that Mementos' significance goes from "important but we're not sure how" to "literally the most important thing in the game" with no in-between. It's really sudden, but not in a good way.

The Igor argument really only works if you've played the previous Personas though. We can immediately tell, through the new voice alone, that this new Igor is way more malevolent and directly intimidating than the previous one, saying stuff like "MY Velvet Room" instead of "THE Velvet Room," but he never shows any kind of suspicious actions that would make us believe he's the one behind everything. Maybe if he more directly mistreated the Twin Wardens or openly berated you for trying to think you could complete your rehabilitation, then sure, but again, he goes from 1-100 when the plot deems it important for it to be that way.

>>376314975
Hence, he's pathetic but lucky, because Akechi basically did everything he asked.

>>376315165
Battle for Everyone's Souls is overrated as fuck

>>376315436

He still played Akechi like a fool. For all his ace detective deception shit, Akechi was a blind idiot and thought he could one up Shido but it was the other way around. Shido had the last laugh there and didn't even consider Akechi to be a threat, just another loose end to tie up when he no longer needed him.

>>376315387
That's why people say they feel the last parts of the game are rushed. All of the sudden, a shit ton of events are crammed into essentially a single day.

>>376315387
>Mementos significance goes from 0-100
>it took him 70+ hours to realize he would need to change the hearts of the masses
>he thinks there were no hints about igor

The strength s link constantly mentions that theres fuckery happening in the velvet room and that "igor" wasnt the one who gave them their list

>>376315613

How could he protect himself from Akechi killing his shadow in the palace?

>>376315613
Nobody ever said Akechi wasn't an idiot. It's just that neither really had to be all that impressive considering they have access to magical murder powers. Shido, of course, only by association.

>>376315124
I've played P3, P4, and (haven't completed) P2 and Nocturne, but just because a tradition exists doesn't mean it shouldn't be broken. I suspected that Shido wasn't the final boss just because he WASN'T a huge god-thing representing an abstract concept, but I was just underwhelmed by the actual final boss (Izanami-lite) and in retrospect, thought Shido would've been more narratively compelling. Maybe if the giant god-thing represented a theme more significant to P5 (maybe by being the ultimate suppressor of rebellion and enforcer of a corrupt "law"), then I'd be fine with it, but Yaldy doesn't really cut it thematically imo.

Shido's confrontation, in combination with "Rivers in the Desert," also show the protagonists facing up to their own dilemma as well. They've been so blinded and hyped up by the prospect of being world-famous heroes of justice, that they forgot why it was so important for them to be Phantom Thieves in the first place, and the fight with Shido is the ultimate culmination of that line of thought, with the protagonists themselves wondering the entire fight whether, "Is this a mirage or a chance to fulfill my mission?" By the time they get to Yaldy, they've already long found their resolve, and they're not really putting anything on the line by fighting him, physically or philosophically.

As for the Akechi argument, see >>376314501

>>376315819

He doesn't have to, Akechi's endgame was to lord over Shido after Shido reaches the top of Japan basically but Shido would be getting rid of any loose ends as soon as that happens so he'd disappear Akechi IRL. It is not enough for Akechi to kill Shido in his palace, but rather for him to ACKNOWLEDGE him first as his illegitimate child who has the power to destroy him so he'd have to confront him IRL first.

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>>376313583
that pic is probably the hypest i have felt in a video game in many years

rivers in the desert is fucking fantastic, it's so good that listening to the ost and hearing this before hearing it in-game is the biggest spoiler you could do to yourself

>>376316062
If you think Shido, a total fucking clown with no power, was going to make a compelling final villain you're fucking retarded.

>by the time they fight Yaldy they've already found their resolve
PROGRESS CANNOT BE MADE WITHOUT THE CLASH OF THESIS AND ANTITHESIS

Jesus fucking christ you didn't pay any attention to the game at all, did you?

>>376315165
It's 100% my favorite boss theme for Persona

>>376315778
It's not that it didn't take me 70 hours to realize that Mementos would eventually be used to change the hearts of the masses, it's that the game doesn't build up to it. Obviously Mementos isn't going to be introduced as the collective unconscious and then NOT have the player change the public consciousness somehow, that's not the point. One thing is figuring out what a story is going to do, and the other is, how well does the story express and build up a Chekhov's Gun?

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>>376315124
So you're saying that Shido was trying to BLOCK Akira?

>>376316062
Yaldabaoth is essentially a throwback to the final boss of P2, and fits the theme perfectly, though. He, the embodiment of the seven sins, was causing the masses to follow whatever society wanted without question. I dont see why you would think that doesnt fit the theme of rebellion. To call im izanami lite not only shows that you're just a retarded p4fag, but its embarassing

>>376315618
I feel the story not technically rushed if you can accumulate all the hints the game throwing at you at high speed. I blame the skip button. The theme for P5 is outcasts vs society norms, and the society here is your true opponent. Yaldy is blamed for inheriting people's will even though he volunteers to do it. Mementos appears early in the game with many questions unanswered throughout the game like the cognitive of the masses, the train with "people" inside Mementos and Morgana's origin, not to mention the source of MC and Akechi's power. Only the true ending explains them all in a way that to some people reading so much texts = infodump.

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>>376313774
>tfw constantly seeing retards posting theories on who represents each sin when the game trophies literally say what each sin was
>tfw retards keep saying shido represents all the sins combined and shit like that
>people literally finished the entire 100 hour game and still don't understand the plot

>>376316350

I think it is more the fact that Mementos was not a forced aspect of the game's plot beyond the initial visit and the final dungeon. I don't think you ever have to go in there outside of S link requests do you?

>>376315387
Tartarus is exactly like this, you climb it every night to figure out why its there but all the major plot points happen outside it until the last month you find out Nyx is touching down there.

>>376316350
>build up to it
They did that pretty fucking well with the approval meter and people around the city. If you actually pay attention to the game its constantly shown that the people listening to Shido are just as bad as Shido himself.

I really think you might be retarded anon. This game fucking spoonfeeds you and repeats dialogue to make sure you get the point and you still missed it.

>>376316474
They also just tell you in the calling cards

>>376313936
Yeah just like in P4, after the twist you go back and notice shit you didn't the first time, like how a bit of akechi's true nature slips out when he talks to Makoto in the hallway, or how the Thieves mention that the sudden support for PT is abnormal and actually frightening them into hiding, that was all manufactured

>>376316062
>maybe by being the ultimate suppressor of rebellion and enforcer of a corrupt "law"
But...that's exactly what he was.

Are you retarded?

I was actually hoping Akechi would've been the final boss.

>>376316683
The localization fucks that up a bit, Futaba's in particular is not very clear (Futaba is Wrath but the card talks about Sloth)

>>376315819
Have you even played the game? He literally has medicine to shut down his palace while the thieves were inside

>>376316803
Futaba is sloth, her mom was wrath

>>376316803
Futaba is Sloth, Wakaba, the boss, was Wrath.

this was them not wanting to make a 7th dungeon to fit the 7 deadly sins theme.

>>376316891
That was the best.

>"Oh fuck the Phantom Thieves are here, I better kill myself"
>"Haha take that trash!"
>Writhes around on the ground

>>376317000
But there are 8 dungeons

>>376316803

Yeah, Futaba's is weird because she doesn't fit the same pattern as the rest being villains who want to keep their castle/vice. Her sin is definitely sloth but her mental projection of her mother is wrath. Then again, who would be sloth?

It went lust, vanity (I suppose they went with this instead of sloth), gluttony, wrath, greed, envy, pride.

>>376317000
I think her calling card said something different in JP version though, or that is what I heard

>>376317217
Tbh sloth should have been mementos

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>>376313785
>Because Persona has to end with the party killing a god-like being just like how Persona has to have Navigators in the party and Mascot team mates

In Innocent Sin the final boss is a godlike being who literally kills your waifu

In Eternal Punishment the final boss is a godlike being who literally killed you

Yabba Dabba Doo really comes out of nowhere and oh, he was pretending to be Igor for some reason

>>376317217
Sloth is the final dungeon, as the place you meet the souls of people that give up on thinking for themselves/ abandoning their free will to change.

>>376317316
That is kind of the vibe the entire endgame gives off.

>>376317000
Mementos is Sloth

If you think yaldabaoth came out of nowhere you're probably a speed reader, didn't bother with mementos, didn't notice the names of each level of mementos, and never one negotiated with a law based demon.

Also you're probably a platinumfag that didn't realize the Zeong never showed up even though they had references to the Hyaku Shiki, Zaku 2, Gelgoog, and Sazabi.

>>376316937
>>376317000
Why do you guys attach one of the sins to a cognition?

>>376317323
You need to replay IS. Yalb was hinted at much more than Nyarly.

>>376317323
Yaldabaoth has just as much foreshadowing as Izanami did. Or Kagutsutchi in Ultimax.

They set up the humans in a 'game' of their making, and in the end it always turns out to be some convoluted means by which they can become manifest and exit the realm of "conception" aka the shadow dimension

Also Yaldabaoth/Demiurge even has the prestige of being a returning villain

Regarding the calling card sins, remember Ryuji wrote them. It sounded like he pulled Futaba's out of his ass to me, and it really felt like the seven sins were just shoehorned in to have more judeo-christian theming (which always bothers me because they're not a real thing, religion-wise).

>>376317384
This. I saw yaldabaoth coming from like hour 30.

>>376317323
Yabbadabbado tries to erase you from existence by erasing you from cognition and he's literally just Nyarlathrotep 2 Electric Buggaloo

Also pretending to be Igor was the best part.

>>376317558
No he wasn't. Plus he's around in Eternal Punishment pretty substantially/constantly.
>>376317627
>He's at the level of Izanami and Kagutsutchi
damning with feint praise there

>>376317648
They are a real thing in christianity, just in more fringe groups at this point in history

>>376317710
Why did they get erased just because of the Phantom Thieves being erased though? They all had actual identities and people IRL who know them.

>>376317770
>Plus he's around in Eternal Punishment pretty substantially/constantly.
No shit dumbass. Tatsuya already know he's the enemy.

>>376317770
Eternal Punishment is the second game dumbshit. It's the second half of the story.

>>376317770
well it's always some deity who wants to shift into our dimension, which for some reason always requires some giant tower maze and people have to mind-fight along the way

>>376317901
they were all misfits who already felt like they didn't 'belong' in society

>>376317882
Not biblically. Any denomination can change the rules however they like, so I treat the Bible like the "core rules". The seven sins are nowhere in it.

>>376318056
The seven cardinal sins have been around since the formation of the Holy Church of Rome. The only things that predate the Roman church are the various unrelated gnostic sects.
The issue is that the names have been altered due to language. Like how pride used to be vainglory and vainglory is still referred to in biblical text.

>>376318056
Ehh i think thats a bit ignorant. The bible doesnt define the religion entirely, and its intellectually dishonest to claim otherwise. The bible may not reference it but it is an undeniably christian concept

>>376318026

I could see them fading away mostly but you see explicitly that their allies remember them and can see the world being fucked up. Is it not enough that your S links all know/remember you? I mean, no one knows who the damn cat is but he is still able to stick around based solely on the acknowledgement of your party and friends.

>>376317901
Do you even watch the entire scene ? Yaldy merges the cognition world and the real world, the cognition world refuses to acknowledge PT's existence thus they disappear in the real world as well.
I swear these ignorant posters would watch HxH 2011 and then whine about the asspulls without thinking for themselves.

>>376318026
I've always loved the creepy labyrinth representation of the collective unconscious in this series. Good shit.

>>376316474
>shido represents all the sins combined and shit like that
Well, pride is supposed to be the root of sin, so they're not completely retarded.
>>376317217
I've seen it suggested that Atlus may have used the old 9 cardinal sins, where vanity (vainglory) and pride were still separate.
In that theory, Akechi is 'emptiness,' which (like vanity w/ pride) was folded into sloth.
I like this train of thought, because saying Mementos is sloth and all those people are letting themselves be slaves to Shido puts them on the same page as Akechi.
>>376317901
Maybe it has something to do with them putting their roles as PT so highly. From their perspective, the PT being erased might as well be them being gone completely.

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>>376317959
Right. Persona 2's story has a villain who is pretty consequential throughout and gives you a damn good reason to hate him when he kills your waifu/kills you at the end of the first half.

Persona 5 has this guy who just sorta babbles about holy grails

>>376314412
he fit perfectly where he was placed, the part they didn't need was them sympathizing with him.

that scene would have made sense if it hadn't just come to light that akechi literally murdered a bunch of people, with that out in the open it makes zero sense that they would sympathize with him (let alone still try to invite him back into the party??? are you fucking insane????)

>>376318249
>Persona 2 IS has this guy that just shows up at the end, says IT WAS ME ALL ALONG I MADE UP THE RUMORS, and kills Maya
>then you have to buy the next game

I can do this too.

>>376318249
Ahh, so you didnt play the game

Look man im a huge p2fag but you're kinda being retarded

>>376318219
desu i thought it would have been better / more bittersweet if they'd let morgana live but without metaverse he becomes just a normal cat who can't talk.

>>376318167
Yeah, but that's Catholicism. The Catholic Church has a LOT of rules particular to their denomination.

>>376318210
Yeah, it's a Christian concept, not denying that, but it's also nowhere in the Bible itself. You don't have to be a religious leader to figure out that all the deadly sins are shitty things to do/be in life. It's closer to philosophy for me.

>>376318231
I mean, if you put everyone's minds together you'd get a creepy labyrinth. That's just on point.

>>376318223
Stop shitposting just to try to get a rise out of people.

>>376318496
Anon, I'm talking the Holy Church of Rome, not the Catholics. We're talking about the church that was formed by the Romans during the Roman Empire before the split between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox.

Or are you one of those protestants that followed a cult leader and says Catholics aren't Christian even though Catholicism and the Eastern Orthodox are the oldest surviving Christian denominations?

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>>376313583
Anybody else think the guy who designed shadow Shido played MGR and was inspired by Armstrong?

>>376318496
At that point you're just purposefully nitpicking what term to call it. Its christian, regardless of your personal belief, and saying it isnt religious is snobby

>>376318232
It's always been seven. Pride replaced Vainglory, and Sloth replaced Apathy. They weren't separate, it was a switch that made the sins more generic and less specific.

>>376318395
Honestly, Nyarly as the series villain has the benefit of having 3 games of setup. I think they did a much better job with Yaldy than Izanami in one.

>>376318668

The big muscle man hiding his body behind a suit and that goofy restraining device is done a lot in Japanese media. It is almost as overdone as the weight bracelets people take off and gain a speed boost.

>>376318668
Not even surprised a triggerbaby thinks it's a platinum reference.

>>376318645
Whoops, sorry. Okay then, point conceded, but I still go by King James for the most part. I was actually raised Catholic and do consider them Christians, but I hate the rule-changing between sects so I kinda do my own thing now. Stick to the basics.

I mean

FUCK YOU SHOW ME WHERE THE BIBLE TALKS ABOUT THE SINS REEEEEEEEE

>>376318395
>>376318451
If you don't play IS and EP together you're doing it wrong. Play EP without IS and you won't get why you're some Japanese Reporter woman with a bruise that you don't remember getting that aches like you're Harry fucking Potter whenever you see this Japanese Highschool Boy who seems to pop up at the weirdest of times

Play IS without EP and you won't get why you got BAD ENDED so hard.

>>376313785
t. has played Persona 3-5

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>>376318642
>mad as fuck because he doesn't understand a children comic

>>376318678
Okay fine. Wouldn't want to be snobby.

>>376318749
I like Apathy more.

>>376318749
Close enough m8.
The important point is that the game uses both vanity and pride.

>>376318914
Ok? There is very little coherence there. What is your point?

>>376318232
>>376314109
i'm pretty sure the scene where you meet meido kawakami was meant to be the babehunt of the game

>>376318929
Well the first part is on point with SMT in general. Human villains and alignment heads are always the warm-up act to the evil god/demon/aircraft carrier who was really behind everything.

Its like in Pokemon you almost always fight the villain, then the final battle with the Elite 4 and Champion.

>>376319038
>reads a children's comic

Also, not even mad, just pretty tired of shitposters, especially in a pretty good discussion like this one.

>>376319283
I haven't played Nocturne, but from what I know of it, the Reasons and demonic sponsors seem to be a similar concept to Persona's villains and their godly 'sponsor,' but instead of picking which you think is best it's you vs one particular 'evil' one.
That sound right to you guys?

>>376313583
Them defeating Shido didn't change anything because of the sole 'mementos merging with reality thing' which wasn't necessarily great writing or anything but it is explained, the only other way to do it would have been that Morgana was in control of mementos the whole time, which is what I was expecting

>>376319313
And which part of my post was shitposting ? The merging was in the anime cutscene. The game explained pretty clearly what happened when you woke up in Velvet room to meet real Igor. There's no way you'd miss these exposition scenes unless you know, pressing the skip button or you're a speedreader.

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>>376318668
No.

>>376316441
>He, the embodiment of the seven sins, was causing the masses to follow whatever society wanted without question.
He isn't an embodiment of the seven sins, that's what he was KILLED with.

>>376319156
>If you don't play IS and EP together you're doing it wrong

are you fucking stupid or trolling my man

>>376320152
I never claimed otherwise?

http://www.strawpoll.me/12922219/r

>>376319735
If you're honestly asking, it's not what you're saying (you're not wrong), but you had to say it in a way that would incite a "u mad" string. Do you just enjoy having a discussion on here where you can actually talk about something while still throwing in a line to piss someone off for funsies? I get that, but I'm just so over it now. Seen way too many people get legit pissed because of it.

>>376313583
>The actual final boss barely has any build-up

You didn't pay attention going through Mementos.

>>376320369
I've only seen posters asking too many questions that are explained in the fucking game and claiming the story is rushed/makes no sense. And I can assure you this type of players will multiply in the near future simply because P5 is hot shit now.

>>376320712
The only rushed part of the story is Akechi's arc and the fact that he is so fucking obviously the villain. They went way overboard with their "foreshadowing".

I feel like Shido using the pill to make himself temporally die was really stupid, in the end it didn't even do anything and could be taken out entirely. Is there something I'm forgetting about this?

>>376316062
Do yourself a favor and play P2 also yaldy is the literal embodiment of control, how much more on the nose can you be

>>376320873
>They went way overboard with their "foreshadowing".
Well of course if not your team mates would NEVER SEE IT COOOMMMMINNNNGGGG
But really, a lot of players don't understand the purpose of Mementos and Yaldy's existence.

>>376320712
The end is rushed, both the final 'dungeon' plus depths of mementos (and mementos as a whole) are too short, Persona 4 did a better job of the whole 'we caught the killer, why is the fog still seeping out? compared to the blind public and mementos shtick, which is basically Yaldy getting pissed and throwing a tantrum. Also with all the giant spinal columns and shit floating around I wasn't expecting them to just keep throwing archangels at you. Still P5 has the best gameplay in the persona series and is a great game

>>376319592
Not really, while you pick which reason wins ( or if none of them wins), Kagutsuchi (One of YHVH's toadies) is the mastermind and is always the final boss (or Lucifer is of you decided to pick him as your sponsor). So in the end you still end up with either a Law or chaos mastermind who fights you in the end.

>>376320982
It gives you two minutes of 'omg Ryuji is totally dead!' Plus I guess gives you insight into how Shido's people are just as desperate to keep everything covered up as he is

>>376320982
I thought it was an awesome plan. How would you kill an enemy who is literally running around inside your mind?

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What did you guys think of the ending over all?
I thought it was pretty good. It didn't make me depressed like P3 or bittersweet like P4, just very satisfied cause of what you and your friends do at the end.
The part that got me pretty misty was the goodbyes, Sunset Bridge never fails at making me feel soft.

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I just finished Persona 5, it's my first Persona/SMT game and I really enjoyed it. I'm thinking of playing pic related and have got the uncensored version installed. I also have a ps2 with freemcboot and I was wondering if I'd be better playing one of the ps2 Persona/SMT games instead

>>376321137
I liked that in P4 you actually have to go out of your way to trigger the somethings still wrong route, but the actual reveal is way dumber. The TV is everyone's minds now fight the Japanese god of death. It helps that your party are all based of Izanagi's story but that's the only thing tying Izanami to the plot.

P5 is meanwhile all about distorted desires so of course the big bad is the Demiurge

I liked that during Mishima's social link you could be a dick to him for getting too self important over the phantom thieves shit, while the phantom thieves get too self important and shit the bed themselves in the story.

>>376321716
Play persona 3 and 4.
Tokyo mirage sessions is the worst smt/persona like game, really don't play it none of the creative directors worked on this game.

>>376321372
I mean the plan itself is neat, I guess it's just that nothing really changes as a result. It's basically the same as the palace being destroyed once you get the treasure but faster.

>>376321505
For the final overall ending I would say I was pretty satisfied. I didn't really get sad compared to p4 or p3

>>376321505
I liked it. EP's ending is still the one that broke me the most.

>>376321716
Play one of the ps2 games instead. Play DDS if you want something with story. That game is still Meguro's best work.

The actual final boss feeling like it comes out of nowhere is only going to happen if you have no previous experience with this series. As far as actual people go, Shido was "behind everything", but in Persona 3, 4, and 5, the final boss is always a physical manifestation of something abstract like human consciousness. Shido was "to blame" for a lot of how people felt, Yaldabaoth is the manifestation of how people felt. Just like Izanami. Just like Nyx. If you don't like that, that's fine, but don't act like it's a Persona 5 problem. It's part of how the series operates.

>>376321505
I kind of wish they went less for the SMT style of writing where they made the final boss some omniscient being with no buildup that only appears at the very end.

>>376321959
Maybe Ryuji should have stayed "dead" then saved you somewhere in the Depths. That way you could show the Palace boss was being sent back to the prison after PT crushed them, Shido's gambit would have more consequence and you still don't actually lose your best physical party member.

>>376322387
But Yaldy's been hanging out with you since the first day of the game.

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remember ann is a whore

>>376322631
Well, yes and no. They didn't reveal that till the very end. The story could've wrapped up nicely if they redid everything after Shido.

>>376317000
Did you get the bad ending?

>>376318268
He is sympathetic and the whole thing with the phantom thieves is redemption. So why wouldn't they offer him a chance to redeem? They didn't forgive him, they simply followed their justice over his.

I know is kinda silly to complain about this since the game is so damn black and white but I didnt like how the Thiefs never used they power for they own gain; like any teenage would do with such power.

Not even something minor and silly like dunno, getting a good grade or something in that line.

>>376323123
>He is sympathetic
Maybe to you but I have enough of two-faced retarded murderers to give a shit about his 5-minuted tragic backstories. He intends to kill my team mates after Joker's death if the situation calls for it, I cannot see a positive light in his character when Goro is too obsessed with his daddy issues to pay attention to anything else. His "justice" is false and the only true thing you get from him is stupid revenge.

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>>376321505
I thought it came a bit suddenly, not having a single timeskip in the game then suddenly going straight from December to Valentine's Day to the end of the game was pretty jarring. Otherwise, I liked it.

>>376323612
He's a product of his environment, none of the thieves or I are implying he's a good person or doesn't deserve punishment. He's pathetic.

>>376323129
Akechi did this. He used his powers to create criminals to take down.

>>376322807
>Right after Shido's deadline
>Igor talking mad shit about humanity getting punked by the Ruin
>Calling Joker a fag while Caroline and Justine just sort of stare in shock

Evil Igor was my favorite part of the game

>>376323129
I mean, I wouldn't. But I'm willing to accept that I'm a weirdo.

>>376323614
I really liked all your mates vouching for you through the time skip to get you out.

>>376323775
Blaming the environment is one thing, but I always believe in one person's will/mental strength. That's why I always see Neutral as the best route. If you can't exert your free will, then might as well give up on it since you don't deserve it. Goro chooses to pursue his stupid revenges and ignores the bonds of people I say he reaps what he sows.
And I don't need redemption arc for someone as pathetic as that.

>>376324194
>believe in one person's will/mental strength
But there's always a limit though, you can't assume people can hold on their own forever.

>>376324194
Well good thing they didn't give you one. Please look forward to it in the enhanced edition.

>>376324348
That's why people needs bonding. They need other people to help them achieve the goals. Goro didn't, so he paid the price.

I realise this isnt quite /pg/, but im going to ask anyway.
Im playing persona 1, and i just got teleported to another world. It does get interesting soon, right? Im tempted to drop this and play p2 instead, especially since no one in this thread is even mentioning p1 but there are points about p2.

>>376313583
Standing here
I realize
You are just like me
Trying to make history

But who’s to judge
The right from wrong
When our guard is down
I think we’ll both agree

That violence breeds violence
But in the end it has to be this way

I’ve carved my own path
You followed your wrath
But maybe we’re both the same

The world has turned
And so many have burned
But nobody is to blame

Yet staring across this barren wasted land
I feel new life will be born
Beneath the blood stained sand

>>376326040
P2 has a much better/more interesting story but worse dungeons and gameplay.

Because the conflict about people's perception of the phantom thieves and their willingness to follow the herd is a more important theme than just the phantom thieves personal trials. The theme about the whole city itself is more grand and I think it elevates the game more, despite it not being as personal to the player.

>>376326354
Sure, but I want to know if original Persona is worth finishing, whether its just the SEBEC route or also the Snow Queen Quest. (Or neither.)
All the /pg/ pastebin states is that the plot is relatively simple, and that there are some recurring characters between P1 and P2.

>>376327640

I think the PSP version is worthy, great ost and is not too long also is interesting seeing P1 characters in P2.

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>>376313774
Anyone else COMPLETELY hate everything about Akechi?

I fucking hate how there is like a 30 minute cutscene explaining how they knew Akechi was the "traitor" despite it being the most obvious thing in the game and anyone who was even slightly paying attention would have noticed it the second he noticed Mona talking. It felt like the game was treating me like an idiot.

Not only is he an obvious traitor but I hate how "generic badguy traitor" he is is the second you find out. Complete with "im a bad guy now" insane portrait.

Even his damn backstory and death was generic as fuck. Of fucking course Shido was his father, of fucking course he gets killed by Shido's cognition of him.

The only thing the game did in regards to him that even semi-surprise me was not go "lol he isn't ded" at the end like they did with Ryuji and Mona.

Akechi is a blemish on an otherwise fantastic game

You know who I would have liked as a traitor? Sojiro. He was ex-government, had connections to Shido and Wakaba, and knew about the cognitive world. I would have rather the moment of betrayal feel like a stab to the heart then a fucking groan. I could have SWORN the traitor wasn't going to be Akechi since it was TOO obvious and I wanted more then anything for it to not be him.

Also if it isn't obvious ENOUGH in the Persona 2, SMT IF..., Raidou, Catherine DLC outfits Akechi's outfit is the antagonist of those games.

>>376326320
Rivers in the Desert > It Has to be This Way

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>>376318929
Its the only games Atlus remembers exists. Every time they draw art compiling the protags its always 3-5. Persona 1-2 don't even show up on the official Persona website. The previous Persona protag collage even had the shit P3 anime protag and not the 1-2 protags.

>>376316691
You didn't notice all that obvious shit on your first run?

>>376324402
Expect Persona 5 The Crimson Edition on PS5 with saveable Akechi.

Anyone else not like that Akechi was able to deduce that MC was still alive? We know he isn't really a smart detective since all the crimes he solved where caused by him.

>>376328187
The twist isn't that he is the traitor, the twist is that the group already made a plan to trick the traitor. Of course they made it obvious he was the traitor since they wanted to make the "we got'em" reveal less obvious.

>>376329074
But even that was obvious

>>376329074
>The twist isn't that he is the traitor
Then what in the absolute fuck is the point of a traitor

>>376328187
I was ok with him being the obvious traitor until they shoe horned the "MUH CHILDHOOD I WAS SO WORTHLESS A BLOO BLOO" shit in after like 40 hours of his character arc like it's going to change anything at that point
like the other guy said though, it was worth it because of the other twist

>>376315165
>After Battle for Everyone's Souls of course.
Its alright but Rivers in the Desert was a better theme

Anyone else hate how much use Rivers in the Desert got? It would have been better if it was exclusive to the Shido fight.

>>376329278
Them shoehorning in a generic shitty childhood/revenge backstory was terrible. No im not going to feel bad for you, you fucking mass murderer. Including all the crashes he has caused his death count is probably well over 100 people.

>>376329327
yeah that was kind of disappointing
idk why they used the instrumental version, the vocals completely carry that song

>>376329074
>game opens giving the player very little information about their imprisonment
>only information you have is that your friend sold you out
>it just doesn't matter

wow, instead of an exciting the plot twist the twist was that everything was just super obvious all along

how exciting

>>376329058
Remember Naoto? Apparently being a Detective Prince is "be slightly clever, occasionally... otherwise be a blathering idiot."

Akechi was still pretty smart, just very blinded by ambition, and only ever saw through stuff when he saw that ambition threatened

>>376329229
P4 fans loved Adachi so, why not go for broke and make him a party member

>>376315387
>>The Igor argument really only works if you've played the previous Personas though. We can immediately tell, through the new voice alone, that this new Igor is way more malevolent and directly intimidating than the previous one, saying stuff like "MY Velvet Room" instead of "THE Velvet Room," but he never shows any kind of suspicious actions that would make us believe he's the one behind everything. Maybe if he more directly mistreated the Twin Wardens or openly berated you for trying to think you could complete your rehabilitation, then sure, but again, he goes from 1-100 when the plot deems it important for it to be that way.
I agree

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>>376329058
Why has it become a running theme in Persona 5 threads to get upset over characters not being complete morons?

Akechi didn't just randomly deduce that Joker was alive, he noticed that Shido was starting to act strange, which led him to that conclusion.

>>376328187
To be fair, the cast themselves weren't that shocked when they found out Akechi was just using them. The only one who was genuinely surprised was Sae.
Plus with the way the story is composed, starting with the busted casino heist and recurring flash forwards to the interrogation room, you as the player are primed to look for a suspicious individual who would fuck you over.
Goro not being featured in half the group shots in artwork was already a big hint that he doesn't belong.
The reveal about his father was uninspired though.
>>376329229
It's not about the traitor. It's about trying to survive the impossible game.

>>376329574
p4 fans loved adachi because adachi was a good surprise that didn't become immediately obvious until the last few months of the game and his true personality was enterataining

akechi blows his load right after you meet him and his fake personality is more enjoyable than lol i was just crazy all along lmao

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>>376315165
Rivers in the Desert > Battler for Everyone's Souls
Fight me

>>376329327
It only gets used in two other fights, one of which is a secret NG+ fight.

>>376329678
>Plus with the way the story is composed, starting with the busted casino heist and recurring flash forwards to the interrogation room, you as the player are primed to look for a suspicious individual who would fuck you over.

you were, yes

that's why it's dissappointing it's not only the absolutely most obvious person but it's actually so obvious that the group sees it coming

the only tension derived from the akechi developments is a fake one derived from actually blocking out the scenes where the characters discuss how obviously a traitor he is

>>376329709
>>376329471
>>376329902
This
>>376329678
>To be fair, the cast themselves weren't that shocked when they found out Akechi was just using them. The only one who was genuinely surprised was Sae.
It doesn't matter if it wasn't a surprise to the main cast. I wanted a proper well written twist that I couldn't see coming a mile away.
>Plus with the way the story is composed, starting with the busted casino heist and recurring flash forwards to the interrogation room, you as the player are primed to look for a suspicious individual who would fuck you over.
Which doesn't work because anyone who isn't a fucking IDIOT would know its Akechi the second the PANCAKES shit happens
>Goro not being featured in half the group shots in artwork was already a big hint that he doesn't belong.
Yeah this really bugged me. Even if you where stupid enough to think he wouldn't be involved with all the metaverse shit he even has a fucking PS4 theme with him in his "thief" outfit.
>It's not about the traitor.
That just ruins it. If it was never about the traitor then they shouldn't have included the "You where sold out" line in the beginning of the game.

>>376329460
>idk why they used the instrumental version, the vocals completely carry that song
The point is for that "oh shit" moment when the vocals kick in for form 2-3.
>>376329832
And those fights should have had their own themes.

>Shadow Shidois literally Raoh complete with buff shirtless form
Anyone else get a major kick out of this?

>>376329732
Does Shido have any MGRR spoof fanart yet?

>>376321505
Underwhelming ending.
I hate how dragged on it felt. After killing god and saving Christmas there was still 1+h of game with nothing interesting really happening. And I didn't find this god fight as good as the Nyx (never played 4). Nyx had such a huge build up in the last month that made his fight be the most epic tense moment in the game. Yabaosomething appeared literally in a day and died soon after. Shido was much more interesting as the last villain.
And the fight itself was too easy and with a boring theme.

>>376329732
Nah. If P3 did something right it was the incredible buildup to Nyx. Shido's a junk antag and the fight was mediocre as well.

>>376330412
>epic
HE SAID IT. HE SAID THE LEDDIT WORD

Next Hierophant should be a tough lady.

>>376316441
>Yaldabaoth is essentially a throwback to the final boss of P2
And P3
And P4

By the time he got revealed as an antagonist I got a major feeling of "Having we already done this before?"

>>376328187
I know what you mean. I feel like they could have done it way better. Fuck Shido could have actually hired a hitman to kill all his ex lovers he even remotely assumes were unlucky and had a kid alongside with the kids themselves since bastard children may serve as a stain on his political career, which could have fueled Akechi's revenge, the idea could have coincided with half brothers/sisters dying and gone pretty deep but no, it fell to this stereotypical plot device.

>>376329709

Maybe it's been a while, but I don't recall any sort of hint that Adachi was the killer, up till Golden added the Hunger Arcana.

And even then, Akechi and Adachi sort of share this apathetic jealousy towards the MC and also sort of diddle the edge of "I'm crazy."

>>376329709
>because adachi was a good surprise that didn't become immediately obvious until the last few months of the game
dude if you didn't realize that Adachi was going to be the killer the second you saw him you're a fool.
Every single thing about how the Adachi reveal was handed was so poorly crafted that it had to play off the player being very young and unable to piece things together easily to have any impact whatsoever.

>>376321084
You mean Nylarthotep

Yaldabaoth wasn't in P2

>>376330869
The P4 fighting and dancing games use the same surprise final god boss as well.

>>376321505
I liked it. Got some serious P2 vibes when Morgana explained how he was able to come back.

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I wish it was solely a P5 concert. I've already heard P3, 4 and spin-off songs done in concert so many times before already.

>>376331049
Arena did not hide a deity being involved until the last minute at all. What it did hide was how that deity was fucking shit in Ultimax.

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>>376318668
It's literally just Raoh

>>376321505
I liked it.

>>376317770
>>376317959
>Yalb was hinted at much more than Nyarly.
Nyarlathotep was even around in P1 an orchestrated the events of that game.

>>376330170
> I wanted a proper well written twist that I couldn't see coming a mile away.
That's because you think Goro being the traitor is supposed to be a major twist. It wasn't. Getting away from being almost certainly murdered was.
>Which doesn't work because anyone who isn't a fucking IDIOT would know its Akechi the second the PANCAKES shit happens
Eh. Pancakes wasn't even necessary. Detective character to your criminal MC, he's your age, has a face, on the box art, plus you've been hinted there's a traitor? Probably means he's a persona user who's gonna fuck with you. Plus there was all that shit with the SIU director talking about the dastardly plan that the PT were being railroaded into by their agent. Only one who was pushing you towards that specific outcome was Goro.
>That just ruins it
Only if you latch on to Akechi being some poorly executed plot twist, which honestly I'm on the fence on whether it was supposed to be some grand plot twist at all. On the one hand, of course he's a traitor, and the game is one big setup to convince Sae to get us out of this deathtrap. On the other hand, the game WAS getting out of it's way to hide the fact that Goro was the traitor until the reveal in the interrogation room.

>>376331580
You actually didn't know he orchestrated shit in that game. He was just Kandori's creepy persona that he didn't seem in control over.

>>376331583
Goro wasn't in the P5 opening either, I think. He was also always referred to by his last name.

The clues were definitely there.

>>376315387
>>376313583
Maybe if you paid attention to the game instead of being a retard you'd know that mementos/Yakdy were not from out of left field.

Igor's voice change was presumed to be due to his VA dying, and you only think he sounds sinister because lmao deep voice but from the start he still has that caring tone to him. He drops subtle hints throughout the game, mementos' very introduction is that "Yeah this is really important you should be doing this" and half the PT's fame comes from them taking hearts in there.

>>376326040
I wouldn't recommend playing P2 without P1 because its kind of a direct sequel. Most of the playable characters come back in some form, and even some extra people whom I wont spoil.

>>376327640
Don't bother with SQQ, only do SEBEC route.

>>376331959
I thought Igor's shot in the OP made him look super ominous and villainy, it was neat realizing it was because its actually Yaldy in the OP.

>>376329621
>Akechi didn't just randomly deduce that Joker was alive
He did

He noticed the second someone mentioned the word phone to him when he was on a talk show

>>376330170
People attacking P5 for this being the twist is the most obvious strawman I've ever seen. Shitty bait, stop falling for it.

>>376332305
>Everything I don't like is strawman and bait
Fuck off

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>>376331226
Or they could do the unthinkable and ACTUALLY REMEMBER P1-2 EXIST AND HAVE FANTASTIC MUSIC

>>376331910
My point was that he still had some set up

>>376332414
How else would you like to explain the willful ignorance and stupidity of clinging to this as the apparent one complaint about the story? I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt of being a shitty memer rather than a retard who needs it explained to him over and over again in every thread. I counted at least five people already.

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>>376332597
No thanks.

>>376331583
>That's because you think Goro being the traitor is supposed to be a major twist. It wasn't
Then they shouldn't have mentioned there was a traitor in the fucking start of the game
>Getting away from being almost certainly murdered was.
How the FUCK is this a twist
>Detective character to your criminal MC, he's your age, has a face, on the box art, plus you've been hinted there's a traitor? Probably means he's a persona user who's gonna fuck with you.
Obviously. They didn't need the addition of pancakes to make it more obvious.
>Only if you latch on to Akechi being some poorly executed plot twist
EVERYTHING about him was poor executed, thats my problem.
>the game WAS getting out of it's way to hide the fact that Goro was the traitor
no

>>376332651
>as the apparent one complaint about the story
Thats not my only complaint you fucking mong >>376328187

>>376332651
Shitposters find one thing to shitpost and cling to it. I doubt anyone who thinks Yaldy came out of nowhere or that Akechi being the traitor was supposed to be a twist even played the game. And if they did they're either knowingly shitposting or are obscenely retarded.

>>376313583
Alright /v/ no memes. Tell me how this guy legit relates to Trump? I haven't gotten that far in yet to get more character development. Is he really anything like him? Or is everyone that hates Trump just trying to make a comparison to a bad guy in a game they like?

>>376315819
Do you think Akechi could solo Shadow Shido?

>>376316803
>>376317000
Mementos is Sloth and the idea of Futaba being Sloth was added by Atlus USA. Her Palace was always Wrath.

>>376333458
He's running for prime minister (president for you americans).
That's it.

>>376317384
What does the Qliphoth have to do with Yaldabaoth? What are you supposed to get from negotiating with law based demons, other than that they mention "the Lord" in their voice dialogue?

>>376332872
>Shouldn't have been mentioned
Frankly I don't think the game should have started with the casino heist, but eh. Gonna have to make a good first impression somehow for niconico and twitch viewers so they'd buy the game.
>How the FUCK is this a twist
Just because you know MC has plot armor doesn't mean you knew you weren't heading to a bad end even after being shot. (Although getting the rank up in Justice was a poor choice on the directors part.)
>Obviously
As an aside, there are always people who complain about redundant dialogue in Persona. Personally I prefer this to characters knowing about shit they have no business knowing. (but the player knows because he saw it in cutscenes featuring other characters.) Only the player knows that this is a story, that follows cliches and tropes and so is on the lookout for cliches and tropes. A person in real life doesn't do this, and neither should someone in game.
>EVERYTHING about him was poorly executed
Eh. There's definitely wasted potential there. I'm not a big fan of him getting sympathy from the PT or how it all stems from daddy issues.

>>376334213
>I don't think the game should have started with the casino heist
Agreed

Fuck in medias res
>doesn't mean you knew you weren't heading to a bad end even after being shot.
Actually that's exactly what it means

>There's definitely wasted potential there
Thats all he was is wasted potential

The same reason Kandori isn't P1's final boss even though its the thematic climax of the game, tying up Nanjo's arc.

>>376334604
I don't even remember anything after Kandori

>>376335137
There's a good chance you got the bad end

>>376335754
I didn't, its just everything else kind of doesn't stand out. I always forget the Ayu and Mayu thing was a thing.

Just finished, 106:16 hours.
What do I do with my life now?

>>376335848
>Ayu and Mayu
*Aki and Maki
I can't even remember their names

Where the fuck was Philemon?

>>376335949
start again

>>376333458
Trump similarities are shallow. Basically he's another populist riding the anti-establishment train and promised to fix Japan, given all the government scandals and incompetence.
The true Shido is about what you'd expect from a Persona game. Just know that development for P5 started years ago, long before Trump came along.

>The way Ohya whispers to you in JAP when you romance her.
Shame about her looks.

>>376336471
End of the game when the velvet room dissapears.

>>376336514
yep, this

>>376316803
Futaba's was both Sloth and Wrath(her mom ) why is this still a discussion you fucks

>>376321505
>>376331076
>get stuck in solitary confinement as a reward for saving the lives of everyone on Earth
>cat won't visit me because lmao tact

Thanks Morgana
Unless he did spend time with Joker or something before revealing himself to everyone else

>>376313583
P5s final boss is the closest we've been to getting back to the Philemon story since 2.

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>>376336548
i wish they kept her original look.
>that unkempt hair
>busty

>>376323129
It's implied that's exactly what they start doing if you accept Yaldy's deal

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>>376336774
This is like 10x better wtf Atlus

>>376336774
Did someone at Atlus have a thing against another person who designed this, because this is way better than what we got in the game.

Ohya's final design in the game has some of the worst clothing choices ever.

>>376336774
You can't have two giant fiveheads in the game.

>>376337196
I think it might be because Soejima has a preference for girls with short hair. I don't know why they okayed Ohya's current design because her beta design reflects the overworked drunken part of her much better.

>>376336978
>>376337196
Not everyone needs to be a semen demon though. Be a bit weird for Ohya to have her story arc if she looks as hot as the concept.

>>376337369
PS3 can't render long hair

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How hard was your dick at this moment

>>376337752
How strong is Satanael compared to other MC's ultimate Personas?

>>376315819
Shido would kick akechi's fucking ass

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>>376336774
This Ohya looks like she woudl show up in a Devil Summoner game to me, for some reason. Also, while I prefer that design, my only problem with Ohya's current design is her lips, they just look off.

Sae has interesting concept art too, the middle one just looks like Sera from DDS.

>>376338392
Bottom right Sae looks like Bayonetta.

>>376317000
You're getting that confused, they meant that Wakaba represented the anger that Futaba felt towards herself. The translation team took this to mean that Futaba was Sloth (Because she was a shut in which in their heads meant lazy for some reason) and Wakaba was wrath. This isn't true, as that's not even Wakaba, it was just the representation of all of Futabas' frustrated hatred.

In reality, all of them represented Sloth (Hence why mementos is the sloth dungeon) in some shape or form.

Kamoshida didn't want to work hard towards anything, so he took the cheap way of getting his lust by blackmail and effortless bullying.

Madarame didn't want to work hard towards achieving fame, so he took his vanity and made fame the easy way.

Kaneshiro did not want to earn respect the true way, so he stole it by abusing his greed.

Futaba hated herself for her past, so instead of confronting it (until the end of her palace) she ignored her wrath.

Okumura could not satiate his hunger for relevancy (gluttony) with his powerful position as a CEO, so he sought more power in politics through extortion and murder rather than hard work and respect.

Nijiima lost her sense of justice and wanting to right wrongs, so she gave into sorrow and despondency to finish every case that caused her issue. Whether she would help or not did not matter.

Shiido did not care for his country, or for the elite for that matter, he only cared about being seen as the prideful ruler of Japan. So he sought his means with the shadiest, and most "efficient" ways of rising through power.

All of them combined (Society) formed Mementos, a place were nothing mattered, hard work was reproached and individuality was shunned. Society combined formed sloth, similar to Ponticus believed there to be 7 deadly sins that lead to 8 vices. Usually you will see Sloth listed as the 8th vice, but it often replaces Despondency for some reason.

>>376336774
The only design here that is good is the bottom right one

Will we ever get another Persona game where you don't do 5 character dungeons then have, like, 2 more until the final boss? That's what bothered me the most about the progression, it doesn't feel like Haru is even a part of the team, yet she acts like she's always been there.

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>Nyx herself is neither hostile nor malevolent, she was awakened from the sorrow, depression, and apathy of humankind.
Erebus - Sorrow.
Izanami - Depression
Yaldabaoth - Apathy.
P6 Will be the one were he will come back.

>>376338239
I think Messiah is the best all, end all.

>>376315165
Rivers in the Desert fucking blows desu

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>>376328187
It was also 100% obvious by deduction.
>All female cast members can be romanced
>All male cast members bar Akechi either have no reason to betray you and have proven their loyalty by that point

Akechi stood out like a sore thumb. It was foreshadowed so much.
>His costume is dazzingly bright whilst other characters used either black, washed out or darker colour palettes
>He worms his way into your friendship group
>He acts like a nice guy but drops really sinister lines into conversation
>He won't take "fuck off" for an answer from the PC
>In the main menu, he's hiding behind pillar instead of chilling with the rest of the cast

>>376313583
Same here OP I thought the real final boss was a let down.

The game kinda falls apart after beating shido

>we hate the phantom thrives with ever fibre of our being. lol who were they again?
>beating the chalice didn't do much
>mc gets sent to jail and then let out so quickly, and it could've been done better it was too quick.
>the twins were one before
>Igor is evil because surprise
>Horrible SOL ending to the social links 4 did it way better.

Still I agree the game should've ended after shido

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>>376338750
Why does anyone want this to happen?

>>376338749
P6 might end up shaking things up due to a new director. I wouldn't even mind the game being linear for the first couple of months if it meant the entire party would be assembled early in the game.

>>376323614
Yeah I had a fucking heart attack. I thought I still had like four months of gameplay left.

Oh well. Time to New Game+ on Brutal difficulty.

>>376339040
You forgot in the safe rooms and in the hideout, he always sat by himself.

>>376328187
I was kinda hoping the twist would be that he really was an smt-style lawfag, and is the traitor simply because it's the right thing to do.

>>376313583
I wish they'd introduce the entire cast of player characters by the 50% mark.

Haru doesn't really get any time to develop as a character.

>>376339346
Same

>>376339091
The top point happens throughout the plot though.

The public literally wank off to P.Thieves merch for a good portion of the game and then hate them to pieces because of unsubstantiated rumours.

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Which Palace had the background theme?

Mine is a tie between the bank and casino

>>376338749
It's not that Haru didn't have enough time for development. It's that Makoto's and Futaba's arcs were so compelling by themselves. Makoto dealing with the shit from her sister and the principal, whilst Futaba dealing with her own guilt, followed by the grand climax of facing herself and what really happened.
Haru's own arc just pales in comparison.

>>376339493
Casino

>>376332597
>Maki is there but not Boy with Earring / Naoya

The fuck?

>>376338945
Messiah's only feats are turning the user into a door. Great power, 10/10.

>>376330869
No, nyx and izanami are very different from nyarly and demiurge.

>>376339493

YHVH Tier:
Ship

Good:
Mementos Depths
Space Station
Casino

Alright:
Bank
Tomb

Annoying Tier:
Castle

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You clearly did not understand the real depth of the final boss.

The final boss claimed that letting humanity make decisions by themselves will lead to ruin, and he claimed that only under complete control humans can avoid ruin.

its actually a very sophisticated theme and its a much more epic final boss than shido ever was

>>376338239
Gameplay wise? Satanael easily shits on all of them

>>376339942
No

>>376340078
It's also been done to death in the series

B/c SMT and PERSONA always have to shoehorn some retarded shit in at the end.

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>>376340012
>>376339493
You forgot the art gallery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxXlfaVb4gQ

>>376340332
Oh yeah that's pretty good, I'd put it between Good and Alright

Would this work? Keep Kamoshida Palace the same with Ann, Ryuji, Morgana, and Joker getting their persona. Have Makoto join before Madarame Palace, by seeing the team go into Mementos. Keep Yusuke in Madarame's Palace. Up Futaba's Palace to after this. Have Haru visibly having problems with her husband shit early on and have the Morgana feud early. Keep Morgana meeting Haru bit but get rid of Kaneshiro because he is shit and give Haru's cuck a palace. Now keep Okumura, Sae, and Shido's shit the same except have Goro fight the PTs in Okumura's palace and join that one as being defeated with Robin Hood.

Were Morgana's dreams ever explained?
Is it just him being made by Igor, or am I missing something?

>>376340237
Just Persona

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>>376339919
>Messiah's only feat is holding back an otherwise unstoppable entity that nearly brought about the apocalypse

>>376340532
Thats just the moment he was born

>>376318929

The only Persona game where you don't seem to fight a god-like being is the SEBEC route from what I understand.

>>376340635
>unstoppable entity

All it holds back is erebus from reaching Nyx. And that isn't even really Erebus, it's just a amalgamation of humanities wish for death that gets BTFO literally every year all over anyways.

Call me again when it stops YHVH or something.

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If fate isn't real, how come this twitch streamer finished the game in 111:11

Hey guys, OP here again. So I took the time to do some research on what I was being called retarded for, and it turns out that the whole seven deadly sins thing was actually a recurring theme throughout P5, with each of the major Shadows representing one of the deadly sins. While I can no longer say that the final bass came out of nowhere anymore, I still have a few issues.

First off, the fact that the clue that's supposed to let us into the fact that these Shadows are deadly sin representations are in their full boss titles, (Asmodeus, Azazel, Bael, etc.). While this is a great use of subtly cluing us into the fact that these shadows are representing something greater, it only works if you knew what the demon names were supposed to represent in the first place.

Like, in P4, we get told the story of Izanagi and Izanami by Mr. Edogawa, which then ties in when we get clued into the natures of Ameno-Sagiri and Kunino-Sagiri as being pawns used by Izanami to shroud humanity in the fog that they long for. It also explains why Marie couldn't remember her past in Golden. The story works even if you've never heard the tale of Izanami before, because the games makes sure to tell it to you.

The Seven Deadly Sins never gets a dedicated segment in any classroom lecture or storytelling scene. The fact that Yaldy later uses them as part of its attacks only makes sense if you've known that that was what each palace was supposed to represent. It's not like in P3 either where each of Nyx's phases are based off one of the major arcana, as you've been building relationships and fighting major shadows specifically named after those arcana throughout the game. Kamoshida's boss form isn't called "Lustful Kamoshida" or whatnot.

>>376340012
you could flip that upside down and it would be just as wrong

>>376340530
Well the intent of Kaneshiro was to have a big target so the PT would become more famous. A clear villain, whom the police were unable to catch.
The whole shit with Medjed only happened because the PT were becoming too popular, so Shido, Goro and the SIU director began their plan to prop the PT up in the public's eye only to strike them down. Additionally, it was about this time where Sae was getting shit since the PT were doing the police's job, so she decides to harass Sojiro about the Wakaba connection.
No fame = no medjed. No medjed and no Sae shaking down Sojiro = Futaba isn't as compelled to act.

>>376340965
Igor does keep congratulating you for beating avatars of each sin though.

>>376340965
>it only works if you knew what the demon names were supposed to represent in the first place

Google is a thing that exists and the compendium should clue you into to everything having real life lore behind them

>>376340936
the last day of the game is my birthday

>>376340965
the calling cards and the trophies straight up say what sin it's supposed to be

>>376340828
>it's just a amalgamation of humanities wish for (thing)
You mean like every other demon and deity in the series?
>if it doesn't literally kill god it didn't do anything

>>376339206
I went into it blind and at first thought that you might get two party members per dungeon or something. I'm glad that the party members are not the purpose of the dungeon itself, but damn, it would be nice if it didn't feel like you go through X character's dungeon to have them join the party. If they go the route of having 8 main party members again, it would be a welcome change if you got them all in the first couple dungeons so it feels like there's a more coherent plot, not just picking up party members and all the sudden being in the final battle.

>>376340965
they gave you the calling cards and the trophy names, and the Mementos section names. Much better than what P4 did.
>hey did you know about this thing that totally won't have anything to do with the rest of the story by the way
>no? Well let me explain it in great detail for the next 10 minutes

>themeing

>>376342026
Well, there's obviously levels to this shit. BTFOing Nyarlathotep, who is literally everything bad about humanity in one (and thus practically every "final" boss in persona at once), is much more impressive than just continuously beating down one of his aspects.

Also, your original point was that Messiah was obviously the most powerful persona ever, when it really didn't do much of anything save for put a seal on it's adversaries desires, while the other "ultimate" personas in this series were able to clearly just straight out eradicate their adversaries.

>>376340965
Honestly, the deadly sins thing is just minor background themeing. Even if it were stripped entirely, the major themes would still be present. It wouldn't be much payoff for the spirit of rebellion to beat one corrupt politician, unless they've learned nothing through the course of the game and are still simply doing things for their own selfish reasons. The true enemy has to be the entire system that he's merely abusing, and thus the very desires of the people for that system to exist and feed their complacency.

I wasn't really wowed by the ending either, but it's pretty by the numbers.

>>376340965
Are you seriously going to pretend that the game needs to spoonfeed you its themes in order to understand what is happening? Honestly, how fucking old are you?
The seven deadly sins themes is present throughout the entire game. Item descriptions, demon characteristics, Mementos, and the trophies, Igor, and the calling cards even straight up say the sins. But it is not the main theme. Izanagi/Izanami plays a much greater role in P4 than the sins do in P5. Regardless, the fact that you are bitching about the game not clearly telling you in unskippable cutscenes what its themes are is fucking stupid. You are retarded and you should feel retarded.

>>376342207
Trophies and googling mementos names are better than in game explanations by characters who already do that shit dozens of times for even more frivolous shit already like colors on a soccer ball?

As for the notion that Yaldy was, in fact, an enforcer of a corrupt law and prime to be the ultimate form of rebellion for the Phantom Thieves: I really didn't get this from the dialogue. I thought he whole shtick with the Holy Grail was a creation of the people in Mementos as a glorified figurehead representing their desire for ambivalence and not having to act for themselves. I guess it was more of a confusion of the people creating Yaldy themselves (a la the golden calf), and then it spiraling out of control to end up actually being powerful versus Yaldy always having existed and then influencing the people himself.

I get that the theme of the game was about reforming society so they can learn to think for themselves, but it paints the people as being more like victims of a god's influence rather than they themselves having put themselves in that situation in the first place. I know you can argue that they could've learned to grow out of it, and they do after Mishima gives the rallying cry so people wake up and notice the giant literal god fighting the Phantom Thieves right in front of them, but I think it robs humanity of being responsible for their state of being in the first place. Not saying that isn't supported by the game's narrative, just saying that ideologically, I think it would've been more interesting.

just started ng+ and just realized, they should actually make the crawling animations for the characters when you go through vents or whatever

>>376343498
They should add a first person and crouch mode as well so I can admire Makoto's butt.

>>376339259
Futaba, Makoto and Yusuke also do this, it's not really an indicator of anything.

>4 izanagi dlcs.
>no izanagi no okami
>Get messiah though.
So close.

>>376342470
Erebus will always come back no matter what, there's no defeating it permanently like yaldabaoth or izanami.

Reminder that Yabadabadoo won't even let you play the game unless you agree the Phantom Thieves don't exist and if you disagree he explicitly says he can't have you due to your cognition of events.

>>376341484
That's a terrible excuse. You shouldn't have to leave the confines of a work in order to understand what the work is expressing. An in-game encyclopedia talking about the Tree of Evil and then connecting that to the sections of Mementos and when they unlock would've worked just fine, instead of having to look them all up externally.

>>376342207
At least it clues you into the fact that this story's gonna be important later on, otherwise, why would it even be there? This is called foreshadowing, and is part of what I was talking about in regards to build-up. Even with that, the gas attendant reveal still feels kinda shocking at first.

>>376341443
This, people talk about cutting dungeons but they're all necessary in the end, Kamoshida was the founding, Madarame was when the public started knowing about them, Kaneshiro was when they proved themselves to be agents of justice to the people who doubted their motives because of Akechi's comments, Medjed was the beginning of the trap the group was being led to greater heights for their inevitable fall which happens in the Okumura palace.

>>376344430
Nice of you to ignore >>376341443
>Igor does keep congratulating you for beating avatars of each sin though.


Every single time you clear a palace Igor calls you up and mentions a sin.

>>376344657
>Every single time you clear a palace Igor calls you up and mentions a sin.
This is exactly how I figured out what was going on. I thought it may have been a coincidence the second time but after the third it was obvious. For the record, I never looked at the trophies nor do I even remember the boss names.

>>376342470
>your original point was that Messiah was obviously the most powerful persona ever
No? That wasn't me, I was just pointing out how retardedly reductionist "turning the user into a door" was.

another thing I'm noticing is that at first it seems that you supposedly should be able to control your persona/thief powers at will but later in the game they're just on when whatever palace you're at considers you a threat, really don't understand why they changed/forgot about that

>>376342475
>It wouldn't be much payoff for the spirit of rebellion to beat one corrupt politician, unless they've learned nothing through the course of the game and are still simply doing things for their own selfish reasons. The true enemy has to be the entire system that he's merely abusing, and thus the very desires of the people for that system to exist and feed their complacency.

That's probably the best argument I've gotten so far, despite the fact that it lacks an emphatic connection. I've been convinced that the final boss does tie into the game's themes, but you still can't tell me that aside from the ideological perspective, that beating Yaldabaoth feels personally satisfying.

Nyx is still the best example of this, as it combined the idea of fighting against resigning to death, while still being built up as this unbeatable thing that takes the power of bonds and the soul of the boy who was imbued with death itself to seal it away. Even then, the build-up is emphatic because the party is constantly doubting whether they can even win. You see them become distraught with the way Tatsumi Port Island is bbecoming, and are constantly denying themselves of the reality of January, until it's right their faces and they emotionally break down. They and only decide to fight because they figure it'd be philosophically poignant to show that they're no longer afraid.

The Phantom Thieves haven't been struggling to fight the system, and their only hang-up is their reasoning for doing so, which was what Shido represented; the confrontation of whether their fight was for fame and glory, or because it was the right thing to do, which is what "Rivers in the Desert" sings about. The fight with Yaldy doesn't deal with their reasoning, and only comes about because of their gained resolve after beating Shido. It's logical, it shows that they learned their lesson, but the fight feels more like a formality than a genuine struggle by that point.

>>376344657
I didn't address it because I legitimately didn't notice that. There, you've discovered the source of my retardation. You win.

>>376345057
>another thing I'm noticing is that at first it seems that you supposedly should be able to control your persona/thief powers at will
Actually what Morgana says when your outfit disappears is that your power is still weak and underdeveloped, once you fully controlled it, your thief costume should stay on at all times so long as you're considered a threat by the palace. Haru's thief outfit materialized but her persona was apparently weak and ghostlike before her awakening scene. That part bugs me a bit because it implies she had a half assed awakening before she joined the team which honestly doesn't make much sense.

>>376341637
Jesus get off of /v/

>>376345336
>He can't track (you)s
What level of browsing are you on?

>>376344657
>Every single time you clear a palace Igor calls you up and mentions a sin.
Does he? I looking through some walkthroughs and he doesn't mention any sins after Kamoshida or Madarame.

>>376345438
what

>>376345439
No dude, I meant that I didn't notice that Igor mentions a sin during his meetings with you after you complete a palace.

>>376345452
>>376344657
Ah, nevermind. Was looking at those post confession scenes with Igor.

>>376313583
Wait a sec, I saw this thread a couple of times in the catalogue but the picture wasn't spoilered. Did the mods spoiler it after ~300 posts?

>>376346248
THEY DID IT FOR
F R E E

>>376346684
No, I'm actually genuinely surprised. That's the first time I've seen this happen. Usually the image just gets deleted.

>>376313583
The final boss is built up in the text messages for some reason. Starting from like right around Okumura your party's group message is constantly about how weird and frenzied the public's response is and how they just latch on to the next popular topic/fad without any real depth to the responses. That culminates in the scene where Shido confesses on TV and no one around them gives a fuck.

>>376328187

The more I think about it Haru should be the traitor

>get rid of her own father to get away
>could be explain that Shiro just offer her the deal
>of all characters in your party it would be the best for shock value

Shit, in fact you could keep the whole Akechi is the traitor but presenting the twist of Haru send to get rid of Akechi for all his fuckups.

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>>376345527
>>376345438
>>376341637
why did this make me laugh so much

>>376348958
I seriously have no idea what he's talking about

>>376348678
Haru is too much of a boring doormat to be a traitor

The only thing she has going for her is her huge tits

>>376349234
>too much of a boring doormat
But that would make the betrayal all the more shocking.

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>>376349234
Haru is for spending your evenings infront of a fireplace, completely naked with a blanket wrapped over the two of you while you enjoy her coffee.

>>376349234
>Haru is too much of a boring doormat to be a traitor

That is the point you wont see that before it hits you

Plus Haru is kind of a psycho bitch in some of her dialog

>defeat Akechi
>"fine guys Im with you now"
>out of the blue he gets shoot in the back
>is Haru
>she explains how Akechi is a weak faggot who try to get himself shakle to his horrible father instead of leaving all behind.

I was expecting the final boss to be that because every Persona game ends with some sort of god as the final boss.

>>376350516
Why would you want to be with the 2nd most bland girl in the game

>>376350887
Who is the first? Hifumi?

>>376350954
Yes

>>376350887
People seem to like makoto so I think there's a huge audience for bland girls.

>>376351916
But makoto isnt bland

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>>376350651
>>376349234

Hell let me add even more

>everybody is in shock
>depending in your Confidant level with her she could ask Joker to run away with her, with the promise of starting a happy life from scratch together and leaving all the rotten idiots to fend from themself
>if you fight her and defeat her blablabla emotional "you are right all along Im gonna atone from my sins blablabla "
>you rush to save Akechi who is about to die
>by sheer power of friendship and plot armor he survives and joins you as a permanent party member

There

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>>376352015
Yeah, uh sure I guess.

>>376352063
I'm sure your waifu is the most special snowflake in the world anon.

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>>376313583
>why wasn't this the final boss?

Because it wasnt the end?
Because Shido was just a guy?
Because there was a God behind it all?

Traitor should have been Ryuuji but he was forced to after cracking from a police interrogation that was already happening at school. He would be the easiest to bluff into self incrimination by anyone with an iq in the triple digits asking him questions then just have the police lie to him about what they were going to do for him to comply.

Having the traitor be someone who JUST JOINED is obvious and not entertaining. That includes Haru being the traitor. Either one is part of the thieves for all of a week or two and now there's a traitor in their midst HMMMM I wonder who it could be?