Permadeath

>>376215184
No; make it an option; no.

>>376215184
It's fun and makes you play more carefully but you should make it an option for the normies.

Permadeath requires an intense focus on balancing by the developers. If the game is not explicitly made around the concept then it's unreasonable to expect a permadeath feature to be rewarding to the player.

>>376215184
Hardcore PoE has semi perminant death. I kinda like the idea that dying removes you from the hardcore world you're playing in, so if you're a casual and end up dying you don't exactly loose the character and can continue playing them if you so choose. I also like the idea of building up resources with your character so that if you die your next character doesn't start off with nothing.

>>376215184
Permadeath annoys me in the vast majority of games, because it's fucking annoying to feel like all your progress was for absolutely nothing in my opinion.

It works in games where you're not going to be doing content over again really, or where you might have permadeath on a certain character, but still make progress overall (like rogue legacy style).

In general though I think it's a pretty annoying feature, especially in games with one hit kills or other similar bullshit.

>>376215282
t. casual shitter

>>376215347
It requires intense focus on fixing bugs.

>>376215184
dark souls is probably the best compromise out there

>>376215184
>How can permadeath be handle to appeal casuals
Have permadeath be optionally disabled after 10 deaths. Don't include this information anywhere.

Casuals won't persist for that long.

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>>376215453
Because bugs affect the balance of the gameplay.

>>376215184
It adds an extra challenge.

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>>376215184
>die in Dwarf Fortress adventure mode
>end process
>mfw
Like hell am I losing a famous dragonslayer to a rando gobbo bolt.

>>376215462
This.

Gives you actual punishment for dying without making players rerun content they've cleared a long time ago.

>>376215184
Bring it on

>>376215503
>League fixes bug
>Has to reduce champion damage to compinsate
Bugs can affect game balance

Realm of the Mad God does it pretty well.

You need to die after a certain level to unlock other classes, and theres a good bunch. The max level being 20, not being hard to reach, makes for pretty good sense of progress too.

>>376215634
That's what I just fucking said, you absolute retard.

>>376215503
So, player getting stuck in a chair and then dying because of retarded collision detection is balancing?

permadeath usually just devolves into cheesing and playing slowly unless the game is really short by default

>>376215763
That wasn't sarcasm. Is the fucking text green? Am I implying something opposite to what the words say? Bugs affect the balance of the gameplay, which is why explicitly mentioning they should be focusing on fixing bugs is irrelevant because the POINT of fixing the bugs is to fix the balance.

DO YOU GET IT?

>>376215184
Really depends on the game, but I like the option.

>>376215876
I get it that you are a fucking idiot.

It's never done right, because not a lot of games are build around it. For example when you die in an RPG, the game shouldn't end but you should continue playing as one of your companions or something.

>>376215184
If a player cannot lose anything, they can only get stronger. If the level cap was 10, they'd get bored after soon hitting that. The solution is to increase the level cap and grind in various ways, but this leads to splitting the player base to noobs and elites of various levels that cannot play with each other. It's also very hard and time consuming to create more and more stuff to do without repetition.

Permadeath has to be balanced with how easy it is to get to max level. Even a starter noob with a spear should be able to take down a max level dude with some help, luck and skill. The max "level" (I think it should only be a matter of gear and how well you've fed and rested, opening up constant demand for craftsmen of goods and edibles) should be attainable within a month of casual play. The true challenge, attraction and interactivity should lay in the community. No need to create a million fetch quests if the players occupy themselves with wars of the community.

>>376215938
Rich, coming from the retard that can't interpret a sentence a toddler can understand.

>>376215184
But I do enjoy trying new stupid builds that will result for almost all of them in my stupid death because I rely on a retarded quirk
so no, I don't enjoy permadeath, because dying will just mean "you lost countless hours" and I'm a filthy casual

>>376215347
Rogue was not balanced.

>>376216060
Which is why players moved on to Nethack which has been in constant development since the 80s.

>>376215184

Diablo 2.

God was it fun to gank shitter with my Hydra Sorc after every Ladder reset.

>>376215184

Having separate storylines for if you die or not in hardcore mode would be cool. Fight the villain as a hero, working with your team of NPCs, but if you die you're resurrected as a fallen hero to kill those same NPCs and serve the villain you were going to fight.

>>376216340
This is an interesting spin to permadeath: full loot. Do you think this is too casual for nowdays standards?

>>376215184
Yes, fuck casuals, yes pretty much any non garbage arpg

>>376215410
>where you might have permadeath on a certain character, but still make progress overall (like rogue legacy style).
This shit always devolve in making the game a fucking grind.

>>376215184
Hardcore Mode in Minecraft.

>>376215184
>20 hour campaign without side shit
>get 15 hours in over the course of 3 days
>die
>permanent death
>absolutely no will to replay the 15 hours.
>watch some gook cunt on a lets play do it instead

ye its rly a gr8 idea OP!!!

>>376216663
True, but I think it's better than just having to run the same fucking content over again because you made a dumb mistake at a later stage.

I think with the right game design that approach is much better than just flat out going "Yeah do everything again".

>>376216340
>hydra sorc
Literally the worst build in d2

>>376216794
>True, but I think it's better than just having to run the same fucking content over again
Permadeath only really work alongside procedural generation.

>>376215424
t. no-life cuck

:^)

>>376216942
I agree, but that falls into the trap of needing exceptionally fair design to avoid bullshit RNG based deaths.

Stuff like runs being useless because of a drop or a lack of a drop just aren't enjoyable to me.

A pure skill based game that doesn't have repeating content with permadeath could be fun, but the mechanics would need to be amazing.

Much easier to make it fun with consequence for dying without potentially losing hours of progress I think, and there's better ways to make games hard.

>>376216794
this is soooooo much better than "lol do it all over again"

perma-death may as well be like the ridiculously difficult games on n64/SNES that are like 1 hour long, but 100 hours long due to artificial difficulty and shit like that. it's the same. instead of grinding side missions, collecting shit, you're replying the same game over and fucking over. that in itself is a fucking grind. perma death is stupid and would need more implementations along with it, for it to be remotely enjoyable.

>play hard game with perma death
>on last mission/quest/hour of gameplay
>fighting boss
>friend walks in, throws pillow at you
>in that split second you die
>permanent death

it's like games having that "are you sure you want to quit? any unsaved data will be lost Y/N?"

its so you (or more likely your troll friend) can't run up and press alt+f4 causing u to lose your progress.

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I want the difficulty of my games to be high enough that the player is not expected to beat everything on the first try. Permanent death would only work if the game is fairly short. Unless it is an extra option, I can't see it working well in most games in a way that doesn't just make the game tedious.

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It's only good in roguelikes due to their high replayability.

>mfw permadeath in games like Wizardry

If permadeath is actually considered it just means the game is too easy. In a normal game you need to die at least sometimes because without knowing anything about the enemy you would be on a 50/50 chance of victory or lower

>>376215184
The problem with permanent death is it's always presented as a "feature" in games that don't lend themselves well to the concept due to how big of a time sink building up a character is in them.

I remembered a lag spike in Diablo 3 caused thousands of hardcore characters to die. RIP

>>376215184
Unless the game is designed around permadeath and is actually balanced instead of throwing in some really fucking bullshit enemies.

Permadeath is good when replaying the game from start is fun.

>>376215347
Permadeath only requires you the player to not be a whiny entitled baby. Life isn't fair and you can die at any second, games can be unfair too.

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>>376217849
>revive one of my guys
>turns into ash instead
>try to revive ash
>turns into dust

>>376219767
*tips*

>376216610
>376216610
I think fullloot is always a good thing, it would probably enrage people too much though. Hell even back in the day runescape slowly crept away from how PvP and looting worked, if runescape couldnt make it work i dont have muh faith in other MMOs

>>376219578
Exactly this.

>>376215184
>Do you like permadeath?
It depend on the game, in a game like Hollow Knight it's fucking garbage
>How can permadeath be handle to appeal casuals?
Toggle or fake permadeath like rogue legacy
>Roguelikes aside, has a successful game implemented permadeath?
Successful game, yes. but none did it well.

Rainworld should have told you what was going on. I'm pretty much fucked right now and might as well start over

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>>376215503
>Anon says a sarcastic sounding comment with a reaction image saying OP has brain damage
>Immediately goes into damage control when others start calling them out on their retardation

Found the Canadian.

In short games, sure.

In long games? Fuck no. That said I still want some tension and weight in death, so losing equipment is fine with me (as long as there's no equipment powercreep and having to return to cheap stuff is not downright crippling)

There is little point in making permadeath an actual thing in a game since players can just impose it on themselves as a challenge.
Maybe if the game used the permanent death of the player in some way or rewarded the player somehow but I dunno.