What makes a good collect-a-thon?

Ape Escape 4 existing

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>>376164406
>eyebrows overlapping hair

Such a thing does not exist.

collectathon was a derogatory term

>>376164406
jontron apparently

>>376164406
Nostalgia and fuzzy childhood memories.

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>>376164715

>>376164406
Banjo-Kazooker

Is this the only "genre" to survive purely on nostalgia alone?

One that has good gameplay to make collecting feel worth it.

Mario Sunshine for example

>>376166994
you mean the worst 3D Mario game?

When there are minimal things to actually collect. You have to go through a series of obstacle to obtain the item and then it lets you progress rather than having a myriad of items that forces you to take a certain route for sure just to mark off your check list.

That is why Prince of Persia Sands of Time is the best 3D platformer, because you aren't collecting a bunch of items but you are looking at the level, figuring out where to go and what skills you should be using to get from point A to point B.

>>376166704

Games with archaic interfaces such as point and click adventure games also suffer from this.

>>376167897
>Being this contrarian
It had fluid movement that built on it's predecessors. It's not perfect but it makes a wonderful platformer.

But I'm not interested in convincing you. Think Galaxy or 64 if it triggers you less. They're still great examples of good collectathons

>>376169492
64 and Galaxy aren't collectathon at all, but you could argue Sunshine's awful focus on the blue coins make it more of one.

Also it's a pretty common opinion that Sunshine is the weakest 3D Mario, I'm afraid you're the contrarian here.

>>376164406
The things you collect need to be cool to look at or have some other functionality.

Flags? Fuck that shit
Medals? Screw it
Coins? Depends on the platforming

Let me collect things like bugs that I can inspect and put in terrariums and watch them move around. Make me go on large hunts that change according to the weather and the time of day, make it so that along the way I discover other things to break up the boredom.

Basically be Animal Crossing.

>>376169690
New leaf has medals fuckin idiot

>>376169631

Sunshine also has a lot more red coin levels compared to 64.

>>376166994
Environments also need to be interesting. Something you can't say about any other mario game

>>376164406
Physics exploits. I don't mind collecting tons of shit if I can pull stunts like backwards longjump.

>>376169631
Who argues that? It introduced far more than the previous ones and stands out as a platform to build their next 3-d platformers off of.

And what makes banjo a collectathon but not sunshine or 64? You don't have to collect every thing in either to complete but you do have a minimum number of key pieces to collect in order to progress.

>>376164406
Is A Hat in Time ever coming out?

>>376164406
that shit will never release right?

>>376170312
Stars are just the end goal of Mario 64. In Banjo, the game begins by throwing a jigsaw on top of a small hill that you can get. The jigsaws are collectibles, while in Mario the stars are a fancy way of having a flagpole anywhere the developers wanted. A lot of jigsaws are just very easy to get so they're more of collectibles.

>>376170465
until banjo tooie where you can go long treks of time before getting a jiggy.

>>376170465
Are jiggies not the end goal? Dont you need a certain number of stars and jiggies to move forward? You can skip some stars just like you can skip some jiggies. You're saying the difference is being teleported out of the level after collecting it makes it a platformer instead of a collectathon? That's got to be the weakest distinction I've heard for separating genres.

>tried replaying BK recently
>literally had to stop after a few worlds

i loved it as a kid, but now it's just unbearable. collecting is tedious as fuck, Banjo moves so incredibly slow, etc.

at least Hat in Time looks to have taken influence more from Mario 64. platforming should take precedent over collecting trinkets IMO.

Nothing, you can't make a "good" game based solely around the idea of collecting things. Banjo-Kazooie wasn't made to be a "collectathon" it was made to be a fun game in a 3D world which took full advantage of the extra dimension not before offered in games generations prior.

If any dev attempts to make a "collectathon" they will make simply a shitty game, they overlook the fact that the many collectible items in great 3D platformers of past generations were not there simply to collect but to prompt the player to take full advantage of the 3D world around them, it isn't about the items, it is about forcing the player to take advantage of the freedom they are afforded by being allowed to move in 3 dimensions.

>>376170465
Also "easy of obtaining" exists in 64 as well. You trek through the same stage multiple times to collect objects. You explore the world looking for the goal and then start from the beginning to do it again.

>>376170736
They're much easier to collect than the Stars, which are mostly after a miniboss a race or a long platforming course. In Banjo you just walk around its barren levels and pick those things up. There are some stars that you find around, but thanks to the bigger and better levels, it doesn't feel like a cheaply collectible that they do in Banjo or all that fucking shit in DK64.

>>376170878
I agree completely. Tried Kazooie recently, never played it before, and the game is fucking dull. Just stopped playing after clearing the Snow level.

>>376170963
Doing platforming challenges to get to the star was a different thing than just walking around picking jiggies, Banjo's levels are much smaller, nearly devoid of platforming. In other words it's simply not much of a journey for each jigsaw, it's more you walk around and pick the things nearby, therefore collecthaton.

Porn potential

>>376164541
It's a westaboo game with a loli as MC.
What did you expect?

>>376170878
I played it just last year (20) without playing anything of it before hand outside of the micky D's demo and I loved it.
I think I'd get bored of the games I played to death as a kid though.

>>376171110
>Just stopped playing after clearing the Snow level.

this is pretty much exactly where i had lost interest. once i got to Gobi's Valley i was bored of it.

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>>376170878
>at least Hat in Time looks to have taken influence more from Mario 64.
You mean Sunshine?

>>376171263
a release date.

>>376171416
and it looks fucking terrible

>>376171558
that's the alpha. it looks much better now.

>>376171110
That just makes mario a more platforming orientated collectathon though. Something that bk lacked in but still had. And you did have large platforming sections in bk (freezey peak, clanker, ccw) along with mini bosses.

You still had to collect x number of stars to progress. You can say bk was lackluster in comparison but it's still the same genre.

>>376171416
>No shadow underneath you to gauge where you are in space in relation to the ground in a 3D platformer
Why would you do this?

>>376164406
>What makes a good collect-a-thon?
The porn.

>>376171642
It doesn't because the stars aren't like collectibles. You do all kinds of stuff to get them, it's more like you get a note saying you beat X number of levels, and you gotta beat a certain amount of levels to get ahead. In Banjo, the point is to go around to collect the jigsaw pieces, the games do feel different for the lack of things to do in BK and the whole collect all shit inside the level. BK does feel tedious, repetitive with its jiggy collecting while Mario 64 doesn't.

Banjo was the game called out for triggering the collectathon genre, along with the biggest offender of its genre, DK64.

>>376171416
Surely that's a test level right?

>>376171652
Directional-based lighting .

>>376171975
Surprisingly accurate.

>>376172237
>Directional-based lighting .
No, I am asking why you would do it.

>>376164406
cute girls

>>376172091
Are you actually implying climbing to the top of the level to get a jiggsaw piece is any different than 64? Or how about beating a miniboss? Or solving a puzzle?

The difficulty is much different but it's still the same genre.

An appealing main character and cast.

>>376164406
Exploration and good level design

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Needless edge.

>>376171652
>Y-L has drop shadow
>people complain that it looks like shit
>AHiT has no drop shadow
>people complain that there's no drop shadow

>>376164406

you need to create the illusion that you're not actually "collecting" like some mindless drone

i.e. you don't fucking call it a collect-a-thon

why do you hate games, op?

"collecting" is really about exploring environments, interacting with and activating them in various ways

>>376172664
Yeah it is, the difference begins in the first one you get:
>Mario 64 - you walk around this big level, dodge all kinds of shit and battle a miniboss at the top of a mountain
>Banjo Kazooie - hey there's a jigsaw on the top that even a lobotomized chimp can get

This sets the tone for the rest of both games, the meat of the sandwich of Mario 64 is doing all kinds of shit to get ahead, all platforming and shit, that's why the stars themselves feel just like a differently shaped flagpole. Now with Banjo you're just going around in small, barren levels picking up things that are fairly easy to get on the way of the level. The exploration is pisspoor and you just feel like you're picking things up. The UI of Banjo is all about you got __ out of __, you got 1/10 jiggies for this level, in that way it kinda feels like a chore of collecting. Mario 64 doesn't even have such approach to it.

Yes, they're both 3D platformers but their design philosophy is incredibly different.

>>376172664
Also, let's not forget Banjo had other collectibles besides jigsaws and notes, you had the mumbo tokens to get transformation, you needed to collect feathers, golden feather and shit. The game just had much more focus on collecting items than Mario did.

>>376173093
You're still arguing difficulty makes it a different genre. You can hit start and see how many stars you've collected in one level.

I agree they're different games but objectively they're very similar.
Perhaps the difference is the amount of collectables?

>>376173384
Mario had one collectable. Spyro had 2 or so.

Banjo had like 5, DK64 had 64.

>>376173384
I'd say this is the only distinction

>>376173413
It's not challenge, it's content. Mario has you doing all kinds of stuff then the stars you get at the end just feel like you got a reminder you beat a certain amount of levels.

In Banjo you collect jiggies, but it doesn't stop there you need to collect the notes too or else you're going to get roadblocked later on, and there are 100 notes per level. Then you collect jumbo tokens, then feathers, then this then that.

The content of BK is collecting all that crap, Mario has all that platforming and other stuff like minibosses and so on.

To be honest Banjo feels like it was made by someone who played Mario 64 but doesn't get why it was good.

>>376170878
>Banjo moves so incredibly slow

>he didn't run around everywhere using the talon trot

Your car also drives faster when you put it in gear, just in case you didn't know and travel around in neutral, hoping there's a lot of downward slopes.

>>376169690
wouldn't weather run the risk of being a total bitch to completionists?

>>376174084
not him but the movement of Banjo is shit, the forward roll attack kinda stops you after you do it, as the game lacks momentum, which makes it boring to travel

that game also lacks platforming big time

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>>376174084
Mario controls better because he has momentum and can do cool parkour moves which increases the amount of things you can do with him.

Long-jumps, flip jumps, tripple jumps, dives, kicks, pucnhes, crouch slides, crouch spins. He can do a lot more intresting and kinetic things than Banjo and the Bird.

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>>376174204
>the forward roll attack kinda stops you after you do it, as the game lacks momentum, which makes it boring to travel

You don't move fast by rolling, you use the talon trot or whatever the fuck they called it where you had Kazooie walking around with Banjo on her back. You get that shit in Mumbo's Mountain.

>>376174204
>the game lacks momentum

But that's wrong. You'd call me retarded if I was playing Mario 64 and after I did a jump dive decided to let Mario finish the slide and get back up

>>376174343
The point is that it should have momentum, the stop you do after the roll feels unnatural and makes traveling not fun at all.

Walking with kazooie isn't that fun to do. What this anon >>376174234 said is accurate, navigating in Banjo Kazooie simply is boring, while you can do all kinds of things with Mario. Banjo feels neutered in comparison.

>>376174234
Oh, now I see what you mean. Yeah, in terms of the actual impact of the abilities on how you can travel, Mario blows Banjo out of the water.

I was arguing from a point on just basic travel from A to B, not the ways you can get there.

>>376164406
That piece of shit you posted is nowhere near what can be considered a good collect-a-thon, and it's still only in the beta stage.

>>376174457
The forward roll doesn't have momentum to it, which makes it dull to use. Rare eventually fixed this issue in later games, you don't get a weird stop after using moving attacks in Donkey Kong 64.

>>376174762
It does stop you at the end of the roll, but you can jump at any point and perserve your momentum which was the point I was trying to make

>>376174564
Looks pretty cool to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfWqiCzCbw

>>376164406
interesting levels that rewards exploration

>>376174564
>it's still only in the beta stage.
Jesus fucking christ how long has it been in beta?

>>376174343
well, i did say Banjo, not Kazooie. i think it goes without saying that everyone is going to unload chicken legs to transverse around the map quicker, but it still is lacking in actual enjoyment of controlling/moving the character as you navigate around. you also lose a degree of precision walking with Kazooie.

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>>376175153
According to my download of it, about a year

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>>376174976
This looks like some kind of class final project

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By copying Mario and giving levels structure instead of the mess of ideas A Hat in Time is shaping up to be. The levels that aren't straight collect-a-thons are too gimmicky and do things like taking away your controls, when moving around isn't that fun to begin with. More than anything they should remove the girl's nose.

>>376171416
>Double jump
>No constant drop shadow
Also that level looks almost exactly the same as those Sunshine doot-doot levels, it even has some of the same structure types like the rotating block with pegs in it.

>>376172881
Didn't complain about Y-L at all, or play it. If it is a 3D platformer there should be a drop shadow.

>>376175368
>about a year

It's 2017.

>>376172881
I don't think I've seen any complaints about Yooka Laylee having a drop shadow, just that the game has ugly lighting effects and gets real dark in areas as far as graphics go. That being said, Yooka Laylee fucks is up by constantly switching between drop and real-time shadows rather than having both be constant