ITT: Why can't videogames have great stories?

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>>376127843
They do, though. Sometimes.

Not that they should.

You just don't recognize it when you see it. Have you ever even seen pic related before?

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Reiner a qt. I want to turn into a girl and have his babies.

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they do sometimes

>>376128739
Op here,

There is a reason I was vague. Please don't post spoilers.

>>376128932
Half life 2 had a very sparse story that didn't pace itself very well, I really liked the way they told it but it again very little of exists in the game.

I didn't play Episode 2, though.

>>376129089
HL's story is subtle, and you learn more about it depending on how well you observe the enviroment. which is how a game should be.


>I didn't play Episode 2
you are literally retarded then

>>376127843

Reiner and Berthold revealing that they're Armored and Collosal titans like fucking retards. Your standards are supremely low if you tout that garbage as good writing.

>>376127843
>complaining about story in games with a fucking anime OP image
Holy shit you gotta be shitting me

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>>376128938
REINER FUCKING DIES HAHAHAHA HE GETS HIS HEAD BLOWN OPEN

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Ohh boy..

>>376129305
>HL's story is subtle, and you learn more about it depending on how well you observe the enviroment. which is how a game should be.

Yeah, sure, I agree. However, there should be a room for a more straightforward games similiar to the older Final Fantasy games that don't suck in the story department. I thought FFXV was going something similar but it was way worse then you average vidya story.

>you are literally retarded then.

Why would I play episode 2 knowing that episode 3 is never coming out? I don't like blue balls so I bailed..

>>376129490
I disagree. Attack on Titan has a shit-ton of problems with the writing but the suspense and world-building was top notch. The reveal was also excellent in the sense that the enemy made a huge mistake instead of the main heroes.

>>376129635

As a person who has read the manga till the very end: No game has come close to AoT in terms of actual good story. Yes the writing can be below average at times. and some small plot holes, but even with that my statement still stands.

>>376129673

Already read the manga. Ya aint foolin me.

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They can

>>376130759
I'll play it if it's straightforward. I don't like subtle shit or googling "Nier ending explained" then have a guy with shitty mic telling a story much better then the game did.

>>376131182
it is fairly straightforward but it also isn't afraid of subtlety
if you have a brain and bother to read up the lore texts you're given you'll be fine

>>376127843
Because the story and the gameplay have to work together. Take a random book, any book. Try to translate the story of it into a video game. Can't be done? Yep. You can only do it by dumping a shitton of secondary/tertiary content/details away simply because there's no sensible ways to portray a lot of things in a video game, unless it's with constant cutscenes. And even if you THAT, the gameplay often suffers and you need to ask yourself why is this a video game and not a movie.

>>376130759
Meme game for cucks.

>>376131182
>googling "Nier ending explained"
If you have to do this for any game you're the issue

>>376132720
>Implying 90% of Dark Souls fans didn't do this.

>>376132813
90% of Dark Souls fans are the stupid bandwagoning issue.

>>376127843
SnK is absolute shit though. The story being complete garbage.

>>376132813
That isn't the game's fault.

>>376130408
>No game has come close to AoT in terms of actual good story.

>dude it was all for oil all along
>actual good story

>>376127843
because in vidya gems there is a variable and the variable is you - the player.
i mean ffs you can kill games pacing just by failing to to notice something in time.

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>>376127843
>Attack on Titan
>great story

Consider the fact that anime and TV shows have episode after episode to develop a plot. A videogame has a few hours that also have to balance gameplay and quality of life elements. Not to mention the story telling constraints of having the player involved.

>>376129490
>like fucking retards
Their only objective is to get Eren, what's the point of being undercover any longer?

>>376133863
>A videogame has a few hours that also have to balance gameplay and quality of life elements.
There is no time constraint for a story in a video game, a story heavy video game will usually be longer than the average tv show
likewise video games have no obligations to continue the story in twenty to sixty minute segments so it can all flow a lot more naturally if the writer isn't inept

>>376133015
>>376133278
>>376133863

The only anime that had norimes in millions watching since Death Note, or even more has a shitty story. Yeah, okay, I bet you guys think Game of Thrones also has a shitty story too.

>>376134102
Nothing. That anon is just echoing cause he's an idiot. Reiner thought if he kept quite he would likely die at any moment. It was their best chance with no Levi, and their Hometown/Beast Titan was close.

>>376133278
>>dude it was all for oil all along

Speed-readers need to fuck off already for believing Marlyian lies.

>>376134381
Popularity has no bearing on the quality of the show itself. Death Note was good until L died. Shingeki no Kyojin was shit from the start.

>>376133863
JRPGs can get away with it, though. Persona 5 being the recent example

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>anime
>good story

>>376134738
That is true, but when an anime gets such an unheard claim from people around the world. People that never watched an anime, you know it is doing some outstanding.

Attack on Titan offers story and nothing else. I don't see why anyone would watch it if they consider it shit from the get-go.

>>376134570
I haven't seen the previous last 2 episodes, did Reiner actually reveal that he's a titan to Ymir? If so, why?

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Why the fuck do you care if the VIDEOGAME has a good story? The most important thing is good gameplay ffs, you faggots are probably the same people who keep pushing the 'videogames are art' movement and praising ''''games'''' like TLOU.

>>376135149
>Attack on Titan offers story and nothing else.
Except for action, the one actual thing that shounen typically relies on, SnK being no exception.

>>376134381
True on both counts. There are a fair few anime with good writing, AoT just isn't one of them.

>>376135149
AoT offers action, a twist on zombie horror, violence, drama, etc. It offers very little in terms of good writing. A story that's entertaining and easy to digest != good writing.
Honestly, this is just sad. Even /a/ wouldn't pretend AoT has good writing.

>>376135195
He didn't.

Just watch the episodes man. Episode 6 will revel everything.

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>I can't believe it's not gundam
>great story

you aimed low and settled for very little

>>376135363
>Except for action

WIT studio made a copy-paste AoT clone with a better budget and more marketing and it flopped big time.

JoJo, My Hero Academia..etc. A lot of anime have a lot of action in them. Yet, non of them got close to AoT popularity.

>>376135195
>did Reiner actually reveal that he's a titan to Ymir
No, Reiner and Berholdt reveal to Eren that they're the Armoured and Colossal titans. Everyone and everything is a titan.

>>376135469
>>376135895
I'm aware of it, the episode preview just made me think that he did, which is different from managa

>>376135749
>Yet, non of them got close to AoT popularity.
And nothing is beating Kemono Friends at the moment.

>>376135740
Seriously, pretty much everything Tomino ever worked on has better writing, though that's not exactly hard.

>>376135749
Koutetsu was ironically a better series, but it didn't have an original thought in its head. AoT was at the crest of the wave, it hit the market at the right time and was capitalized upon very well. That said, it's just another fad series, the second season probably won't perform as well when more people will be clamoring for something like OPM season 2 or something.

Bert gets eaten by Armin who takes his Colossal titan powers.
Reiner only has 2 years to live and he will sacrifice himself to some random boy.
Ymir got eaten by Reiner and Bert's comrade.
Erwin dies.
The plot is about Jews.

>>376135338
>Why the fuck do you care if the VIDEOGAME has a good story?

Because they create suspense, and great stories get you all excited when executed very well.

>The most important thing is good gameplay ffs.

I agree. But I would like to see ACTUAL EFFORT in the story as well. I am paying 60$ for a game and when the developer promotes the game for having a great story (Final Fantasy XV and Resident Evil 7 come to mind) and they fucking blow it, It fucking pisses me off.

Not all games need it like Devil May Cry and the likes.


>you faggots are probably the same people who keep pushing the 'videogames are art' movement and praising ''''games'''' like TLOU.

I despise the TLOU. It is where I don't want video game stories to go. I don't want "complex characters" I want a complex world and lore.

>>376127843
Dunno, I did enjoy the stories and setting of .Hack and .Hack//G.U.

>>376136010
AoT has better ratting world wide.

Also,

>Caring about shitty Nippon taste.

>that shit anime
>great story
sure thing

>>376127843
That last part of the episode was literal kino.

>>376136174
>I don't want "complex characters" I want a complex world and lore.
Then go play the TM games the official D&D games.
>I am paying 60$ for a game and when the developer promotes the game for having a great story (Final Fantasy XV and Resident Evil 7 come to mind) and they fucking blow it, It fucking pisses me off.
Quite frankly, if you fell for that shit you've no one to blame but yourself and your poor judgement. That's just fucking embarassing, everyone knows Capcom can't write to save their lives and hiring the Fear guy isn't much of a step up, whilst Squeenix haven't produced good narrative in over a decade. Maybe think for a second before buying blindly, you're the kind of person who pays these faggots to make no effort.

>>376136362
You can't disregard Kemono Friends' popularity in Japan as shit taste while claiming that worldwide taste isn't also shit.

>>376136024
Kabaneri lost all tension after this first two or three episodes (I distinctly even remember there being an ending card that basically made me feel like the series should have ended at 3 episodes), and went pants on head retarded for the last two episodes.

>>376127843
>implying snk has a good story
>jews on madagascar

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Here's AoT on one page

What makes a good story?

>>376136827
Saw that twist coming all the way, shit story.

>>376136557
Yeah, but at least it a) had nice production values and some good fight scenes and b) had the good decency to end early. Although announcing a second season kind of ruins the second point.
Though I suppose Kabaneri could've benefited from a more filled-out storyline before delving into the shitty villain arc without ceremony, but tagging on more content at this point isn't going to solve that problem. Damn shame really, it was a really nice looking anime by TV standards.

>One of the best selling Mangas of all time.
>Closing in on One Piece.
>Anime was the most watched by people around the world back in 2013.
>Series is mainstream.

>"Its shit guys I swear."

If only WIT didn't fuck up and take 4 years to make the second season...

>>376136845
Not being popular, apparently.

>>376135064
Anime, on average, tend to have better stories than comic books.

>>376136845
A good protagonist to follow.

>>376137020
One Piece doesn't have good writing either.
Neither does Dragonball, Sailor Moon, or any of the other most successful anime or manga series. Well, Miyazaki movies, UC Gundam and disputably Eva are above average at least, I suppose. And Shinkai movies if those count.

>>376137135
That doesn't mean much, also no one mentioned comics.

>>376136845
the only marker of quality is how popular it is. That's why Game of thrones, snk, transformers, etc are all very popular. Very well told stories to which anyone can relate.

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>tfw did not read any AoT spoilers and was delighted by the twist.

The last 5 min were, dare I say, PURE KINO.

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>>376127843
because somehow a little group of people think it was a great idea shove their political agendas into them, they re shit because you can see its shameless propaganda your asshurt will tell you to call me /pol/ but you know its true

>>376137016
The production values were nice, but the same could be said for AoT.

If I ever recommend Kabaneri it'll just be as a three episode short story.

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>>376127843
>Attack on Reddit
>he watch the GoT of japan
fuck off

>>376131494
>Take a random book, any book.

The Witcher 3

>>376137690
Dorohedoro is excellent, but you're crazy if you think it isn't niche as fuck.

>>376137661
>The production values were nice, but the same could be said for AoT.
AoT had above average production values for TV anime, Kabaneri's were through the roof. Like bordering on mid-to-high end OVA/movie tier at some points. I'm kind of amazed they invested that much effort and money into it when the story was so by the numbers and could've been written in a lazy weekend.

I don't have a clue where is SNK's story going, really, reading the manga the story just became world war 2 with Titans and other unnatural shit, like what the fuck?

>>376137754
When did this become an argument about popularity? It was supposed to be about good writing.

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>>376127843
>All other media seem to nail the story aspects

>>376137383
I'm just saying, as far as power rankings go for good stories goes...
>Books
>Music
>Movies
>Video Games
>Anime
>Comics
It's just the way things are.

>>376137865

They used all the money they got from AoT on their own property. It's because they only get a cut from AoT because they don't the rights for it, while all of the profit form Kabaneris comes to them as they own it fully.

I don't believe it reached to their liking, though.

Buddy, most TV and movies are so bad they're unwatchable.

>>376138124
What did I say wrong? English isn't my first language and am trying to improve, so please tell me.

>>376138169
The trouble is that video games don't need story to be good, it's an interactive medium and needs it about as much as any game. You don't need narrative for tag or Monopoly. The earliest video games couldn't even have stories.
>Music
I don't follow. Are you including opera and the like?

>>376127843
Attack on titan has good story? im sorry but what about slaying titans and hmm eren can turn into a titan so surely there cant be other people is a good tier writing?

>>376138334
Well apparently it performed well enough to rerelease in theaters and for a second season. I can imagine getting the money back on that kind of investment would be hard though.

>>376138423
You're implying stories in other media aren't 99.9% shit.

>>376135749
>Yet, non of them got close to AoT popularity.

AoT/SnK isn't doing so well anymore, senpai.
Story became shit pretty fast.
It's just fun because it's so stupid. I mean the big bad organization that gets revealed after visiting the basement or whenever is full of retards.

Flying Titan when

>>376138106
Just because something is written well doesn't mean it's not understandable for some people to think otherwise, is what I was saying when I said niche. Not that it's only known by a small audience, but that only that small audience would consider it well written.

Not to mention your entire first post was about popularity, not how well written something is. (Attack on Reddit, comparing to GoT the show, flaunting elitism with a niche title, etc)

>>376137020
Not looking so good now.
Also the hype itself went down after Eren became the Titans

>>376137135
Well, if you're talking about capeshit, then you're right.

>>376138494
>The trouble is that video games don't need story to be good, it's an interactive medium and needs it about as much as any game.
Yet at the same time, when a video game manages to blend the two together, it makes you feel more immersed in the story than if it was just told to you.

Like I still remember playing through Asura's Wrath, Super Metroid, and Half Life 2: Episode 2 for the first time feeling genuine emotions from their climaxes, it's just that most game developers nowadays don't bother taking advantage of the medium, which is why video game stories are so low on the list.
>I don't follow. Are you including opera and the like?
A lot of music/albums are great for selling a scene depending on how the song itself is composed. In fact, I'd say that music is why so many scenes in movies, games, anime, etc. are so memorable.

Only reason why it isn't at the top of the list is because books are pure story, so they don't need audio/visuals to tell a good story.

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Books > Video games > Television > Music > Movies > Anime/Manga > Comics > Art

In terms of story telling.

>>376138964
>AoT/SnK isn't doing so well anymore, senpai.

Anime isn't doing well while the manga is one of the best-selling of all time and keeps selling more and more each volume.

It does not matter how good the show is if the waiting between seasons it too long, then the hype will deflate with fan frustration. See ABC's Sherlock for example.

>>376139550
>Video games

Give me one video game with a good story that isn't a walking sim or a visual novel.

>>376138494
>>376138494
>The trouble is that video games don't need story to be good

That's true but games have a lot of different genres.
Also videogames can tell stories in their own way but it's hard to do (well).
I'd also say that videogames can do horror a lot better than books/movies.

>>376136845
Story has 3 parts
1. Plot
2. Characters
3. World Building

You only really need 2 of the 3 to have a good story. World Building is what makes franchises like Legend of Zelda, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, Harry Potter, Star Trek, and Star Wars so popular.

>>376139681
Majora's Mask
Super Metroid
Earthbound

>>376139681
Xenogears
Xenoblade Chronicles
Xenoblade Chronicles X
Chrono Trigger
Final Fantasy 4
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 7
Nier Automata
Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Hollow Knight
Subnautica

Just off of the top of my head.

>>376139681
Silent Hill 2

>>376137440
Unlike the other two, Transformers does not have any fans.

>>376127843
The more power the participants/readers have in a story the less it is a coherent story and it's easier to create disjunction that hampers your experience.

So, reading a book/hearing a tale is great because you're not connected to the story in any way and you imagine the stage upon which the story occurs. Most people say that books have the best stories. Books/oratory just have the best way to tell a story.

Films/movies have you witness the stage/story, and are limited by effects, camera, music. Bad movies will make you wince because they took you out of the fantasy (endless shit horror movies that leave you hating the victim's incompetence). Movies can have, and tell good stories, but are more limited than books.

Video games have the most power put in the hands of the "reader", and they can fuck you up and over easily, tearing you out of the fantasy, eg. Fallout 4's voiced protagonist or Far Cry 3's bitchy white college fuck that plays like a hardened SAS when I play that game, really fucked with my enjoyment. Similarly tabletop D&D stories are pure shit that isn't fun to most people outside of your gaming table.

Because so much power is in the gamer's hands, his endulgement in the game is extremely subjective. Some people roleplay in Fallout 3/WoW and really enjoy themselves, engrossing in the gameworld. Some people love the cinematic experience Call of Duty or Half Life brings them. Some get lost inside S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and become a part of the Zone. Some go metastreumonic, some become masters at Quake/Counter Strike. It is extremely hard to write up a story that will satisfy all of these.

In gaming, story often takes the back seat, similar to porn, and I'm okay with this. Some games do stories better, but game stories are up for scrutiny much harder than either movies or books.

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>>376139994
>Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
>An ancient Good awakens

>>376139980
>>376139994
>>376140047

All of these, aside from Final fantasy, "We are too lazy so it's for up for interpretation stories!" games won't cut it.

>>376140094
If it doesn't have any fans why does it make billions?

Face it anon, it's good.

>>376127843
Videogames mostly try to empower the player for cheap thrills, even some of the more complex ones.

The more empowered the player/MC is, the more generic the story tends to be. And very few games actually make the player feel vulnerable and weak.

>>376140201
Yeah, it's great, isn't it?

>>376139006
I'm not that guy, I was just pointing out the inconsistency. I don't even read Dohedoro. The point is that popularity != good writing. And that AoT doesn't have good writing.

>>376139341
>Asura's Wrath, Super Metroid, and Half Life 2: Episode 2
AW isn't a good game, the gameplay is borderline atrocious (the story isn't up to much either, more to the point), SM's narrative is virtually non-existent and the story hinges almost entirely on what's presented in the game itself. I can't comment on HL.
>A lot of music/albums are great for selling a scene depending on how the song itself is composed. In fact, I'd say that music is why so many scenes in movies, games, anime, etc. are so memorable.
Music very rarely has a strong enough narrative to carry a story on its own, although there are exceptions. Naturally if you included the likes of opera it'd go much further. That said even then it wouldn't come close to books for fairly self-explanatory reasons.

show me a game that can top this scene
https://my.mixtape.moe/jcredi.webm
you fucking can't

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>>376127843
Because games with bad stories outsell games with good ones.

>>376127843
Games aren't great at telling stories. They can do it, of course, but they're not ideal simply because of how stories and games are inherently structured.

The author has complete control over a story, they decide how and when the reader experiences the events of the story, the characters, what the reader knows and what they don't know, etc. That complete control over what the reader experiences is what makes a strong, compelling story, it allows the author to maximize that impact and tell the story in exactly the way they intend to.

A video game, however, draws its strengths from the player's agency and the choices they can make while playing, be it related to the narrative or as simple as where they go, what they do or how they do it. When you remove that agency and essentially railroad the player with a linear narrative, you're stifling a lot of what makes video games engaging and unique. Conversely, when you allow the player the freedom to potentially experience things out of order, skip content, etc. it hurts the narrative.

You can of course make a game that both tells a good story and is a good game, its just difficult and most of the time you get games that throw that player agency out the window and instead focus on just presenting the player with passive entertainment, a linear narrative in which the player is little more than an observer rather than a participant. Games are at their best when they're not railroading the player and trying simply to present them with entertainment and instead give the player the tools to create that entertainment through how they choose to play.

>>376140445
BoTW relays too much on its presentation throughout its story, which is fine for that kind of game.

>hurr games have no gud story
>durr some games do
>herp no they don't
>derp x is shit

What a shitty thread.
How about actually talking about what makes a story good and what doesn't?

If a game pulls a story like that
>>376128502
everybody will just whine about how unoriginal it is. So what do?

>>376140484
New Vegas was broken and unplayable when it released.

>>376139980
>Super Metroid
You can't hide from me, ACfag.

>>376139681
Bloodborne, and Witcher 3

>>376140602
>Decied a theme.
>Make the world.
>Build the lore.
>Place the story.
>Create the characters.
>Create the narrative.
>Adjust all of the above.
>Create a game within all of that.
>Adjust again to fit in a game format.

Uncharted 3 went backwards: They made the areas of the game and tried to connect them through the story.

>>376140445
I wouldn't say the story in BotW is good though but it's good enough

>>376139580
>and keeps selling more and more each volume.
That's wrong it's dying down because it lost readership.

>>376127843

Berthold dies like a bitch and is eaten by titan Armin.

Sorry, did i spoil anything there?
While there are anime with good stories SNK is not one of them.

Also, there are games with GREAT fucking stories and i am not talking about TLOU here... FF VII, VIII, IX, VP, VP2, SH 1 and 2, the .hack// IMOQ games, Soul reaver games, Batman arkham games, Uncharted games, Tomb Raider games, Xeno games, Vagrant Story, legend of dragoon, FF tactics... i can go fucking on but you get the point.

>>376140895
>Bloodborne

OP here,

This probably the closest thing to a great "story" that isn't told through a game. Which is a shame since It would've worked better as straightforward tale.

>>376140481
I'm guessing this is supposed to be ironic, because story-wise that scene was fucking retarded. I remember /a/ making fun of it when it happened in the manga for ages.
Presentation-wise it's subpar by shounen fightan and super robot standards, to be honest. Anything early Gainax worked on is better, for example.

>>376137135
Both are for twelve year olds, so you're probably right.

>>376140923
Too abstract. At some point that is done for any game even with the most shitty story.

>>376140991
It went bananas cause the basement revel. Now it's just back to it's normal numbers which are still considerably big.

>>376140923
then you end up with a shit game
you need to design the game and story in tandem

>>376141083
>twelve year old comics have better writing then 90% of video games.

>>376141003
>and i am not talking about TLOU here
>Uncharted games, Tomb Raider games
But those are all bad for the same reasons?

>>376140895
>Bloodborne
I had to look up the story after I beat the game just to know what was going on and it turned out to be pretty neat. I just wish it was implemented in the game better so I wouldn't have to read item descriptions to get a feel for what I was actually doing

>>376141274
Or just not bother with the story at all beyond it simply giving context to what the player is doing.

>>376140923
And just think: Uncharted is a story drive game and they fucked up in the story department. God knows what the fuck other studios do to chum out a nonsensical story.

Why can't other media have great gameplay? Why can't other media have great level design? Why can't other media have great mechanics? Different media have different purposes.

>>376141313
even video games have better stories than capeshit
western comics might be the lowest form of media

>>376128739
Isn't he gay or was that's just a meme?

>>376141458
It was already proven the video games can have great stories. Why are we trying to call out developers that ignore that?

You are paying money for a game that is giving you a reason to see it through the end. Yes, the game could be fun but there should a payoff at the end.

Don't even tell you weren't pissed when a game gave a shitty ending that made you feel hollow inside.

>>376136827
Then why are titans eating people?

>>376141680
>It was already proven the video games can have great stories
since when?

>>376141708
Mindless Titan. It's their curse if they try to drink their ancestors blood.

Only 9 humans with titan powers are allowed to exist.

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>>376141003
>Soul reaver
>Vagrant Story
You have some good taste sir.

>>376134381
GoT story is absolutely fucking retarded, yes. No kingdom historically could ever function behaving like they do in that book.

>>376141797
Do you remember Ultima?

>>376141992
Historic kingdoms also didn't have fucking dragons or clairvoyants.

It's fantasy, you fucking retard.

>>376141910
Whatever happened to that gorilla titan? I literally stopped giving a fuck about AoT spoilers after it took so long for a second season.

I miss Devil is a Part Timer...

>>376141992
>>376142105
Well, it is loosely based on the War of the Roses. That said, it's not a good interpretation and Martin is indisputably a hack.

>>376130759
I dropped this shit after ending A

>DUDE JESUS REFERENCES LMAO
>DUDE ALIENS LMAO

>>376141569
Warrior is probably gay.
Soldier is straight.

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>>376142105

>>376142105
>it's magic you fucking retard
This is why no one takes fantasy seriously. GOT is just murder boner the incest story. It's on par with fucking isekai stories.

>>376142105
>It's magic, I don't have to explain shit!

>>376142176
>DUDE JESUS REFERENCES LMAO
>DUDE ALIENS LMAO
Man, you can roll Automata shitposting and Eva shitposting all into one at this point.

Attack on titans story is ruined by the main characters being absolute trash despite the worldbuilding and antagonists being good, Marley should have been the protag point of view

>>376142251
Don't be a dick, good Isekai exists, it's not the genre's fault it's oversaturated with trash.

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>>376142143
I think he's Eren's halfbrother or something like that and betrayed his father (Grisha).
Also his mother turns into the titan that eats Grisha's second wife (Eren's mother)

>>376141046
Quiet the contrary anon, the nonchalant reveal is consider by most on /a/ as one of the few things that Isayama got right

>>376142149
He's also a hack because he attempted to justify waging such a war on a continental scale, not between two rather small countries as it historically happened. There doesn't exist a logistics base that could support that kind of thing, they'd all starve to death in a couple of years running their countries as they do, unless they could literally magic their food into existence. But last time I checked it's not what clairvoyants or dragons did.

>>376142251
>murder boner

Do you even watch the show, or do you just shit on it because it's popular? There was one death that was done for shock value and redacted after, which was Jon Snow's. Every other death in the show has a purpose and an effect on the story.

Fucking hipsters. I bet you like LotR too, don't you?

>>376133143
the story was fucking designed on you being lead around, unknowing of what your chosen path actually entails

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You're stating videogames don't have great stories while implying Attack on Titan does?

Never change weebs

>>376142492
>underage today thinks that liking LOTR is hipster

Oh my fucking god, you can't make this shit up.

>>376141313
Naruto is more consistent as a story than western capeshit as a whole.

>>376142492
>purpose and effect on the story
Martin constantly wrote himself into corners from which the only way out was to kill someone. There was no purpose other than Martin fucked himself.

It's the same reason SNK has so many asspulls.

>>376142105
Readers will believe the impossible, not the implausible.

>>376142759
Go on, give us an example.

>>376127843
Pic unrelated you retard.

>>376142428
Nah, I was there, I remember the threads. It was dumb, it was called out accordingly, that's it. Maybe it's ironically considered good on /a/ these days, I wouldn't know.

>>376142462
Honestly, I would never expect much of a guy who criticized Tolkienn's writing based on Aragorn's Gondor restoration policy never being stated or explained in LotR. Maybe the guy was joking, I don't remember, but he's still a fucking ass. LotR isn't exactly the greatest story of all time, but completely misreading the purpose of the story doesn't colour his understanding of good narrative very well.

>>376142992
LotR was one of the first to hit the mainstream media and that's the main reason it became pop culture. There's nothing new or interesting about it, it's fantasy writing 101.

If you like that, more power to you. But I'm a little tired of 'frodo wins and everyone lived happy ever after' stories.

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>>376140923
>Life
>Cyberpunk with magic
>Ancient beings killed by a alien
1960s
>Rogue squad of no namers
>Wants to bomb energy powerplants
>You can control everyone in the group to follow your order
>Make the game so big that it takes up 3 discs

>>376143247
Except that not everyone lived happily ever after. Rohan was almost annihilated, the elves receded completely and the end was more mournful in tone than anything. Human empires are guaranteed to fall or turn to darkness in time for one reason or the other. Their world wasn't in decline just yet, but the implications were there. Even the dwarves were becoming less and less numerous.

>>376143476
That wasn't the tone or core of the story, though.

>>376143247
It wasn't an amazing story, but it was a solid fantasy tale for its time, and Tokienn's world building is exceptionally in-depth and well constructed. For a children's story (not strictly children's literature, but as a direct continuation of the Hobbit, it somewhat qualifies), it still stands out. And it's better than GoT and 99% of modern fantasy at any rate, not that it's saying much.

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>>376143443
ops i fucked up

source imgurDOTCON/a/KXrIJ

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>>376130759
My man.

>>376143579
Does your back hurt from carrying that goalpost all the way over there? It was the tone of the ending of the story, a big part of it that was brought to reader's attention time and again as the story itself progressed.

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>>376127843
Games can have great stories, but they must first have great gameplay.

Video games try to tell stories like Movies do and as soon as that cutscene starts there is an instant disconnect for the player. Games can never have good stories until writers can play to the strengths of the medium

>>376127843
Because talented writers probably know they can make way, way more money selling novels than just being paid a salary to work on a video game.

Big budget projects also have multiple writers that all tackle different parts of the story and characters simultaneously which probably isn't doing the overall narrative any favors, despite having a lead writer who's supposed to tie that shit together.

For the sake of avoiding shitposters, I'll avoid mentioning specific games but while I do generally agree that 95% of game stories suck, there are definitely some good ones. I find that said good ones are usually games that are fully aware that they are a video game and use the medium to the fullest instead of trying to replicate story telling from movies and books. No, this post is not about Undertale.

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>>376144261
Pathologic?

>>376143745
Games with only good gameplay are too autistic.

Whatever happened to Destiny?
First they said they wanted to create a scifi world but then they fire the main composer/cofounder and the two main writers, hire some guy to write these grimoires in order to throw out almost the entire story

>>376144398
False. Fuck off, mong.

>>376144413
Rumor is they had to scrap the story because the publisher felt it could be politically offensive to certain groups. So they had to go back and retrofit a story out of cutscenes.

You can see some curtscenes from the e3 trailer that arent even in the game now at the end of its life cycle.

>>376130759
The story for that game is mediocre as fuck though

>>376141003
I don't agree with some of your picks, but at least you're not one of the many newfaggot retards who gleefuly reduce any JRPG story to "lol anime amirite"? They are about as pretentious and bad as the Vidcon fucker, but at least he's long forgotten.

>>376144693
You are not a little kid anymore, only children or autistic manchildren prioritize gameplay and skip or ignore everything else.

>>376144261

I don't really agree with the assessment that good stories in games are ones that use the medium to its fullest. Visual novels toe the line between game and book so much that it's actually debatable if they can be counted as games at all, yet they would be the genre with the biggest breadth of good stories if you do count them as games.

Similarly, games like Killer 7, Nier, Shadowrun: Dragonfall, PS:T, Starcraft, LoK, etc. don't use the medium to the fullest in how they tell their stories, yet they're all in the top tier of video game stories.

I agree with a sentiment you're sort of getting at though, in that video games that pretend to be movies, or indie walking simulators, usually have shitty stories. This isn't so much a problem with how the medium is being used as it is with AAA and indie game development in general.

>>376144894
Yeah, because I'm going to play fucking The Last of Us to understand the riveting nuances of another post-apocalypse zombie movi- er, I mean, game.

>>376127843
>have you even xenoblade chronicled

>>376144906
I agree 100% with you, probably should have just stuck with the whole not pretending to be other mediums bit. I think you stated my own opinion better than I did.

>>376145051
No, you should just grow up, dump videogames and get into better mediums.

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>>376145171
>he says while posting on /v/
We all should, anon. But we won't.

>>376145056
generic shonen mecha about the chosen one? so innovative

>>376145070

I think a large part of the problem is why would anyone capable of writing a really good story want to sit around waiting for a video game to develop to tell that story?

Video game development takes a long fucking time, are full of internal strife and change due to publisher demands/changing opinions, have strict ties to the physical game world and mechanics, etc.

In a way, games are a great place to tell a story, but they're also the worst place to tell a story. Making a great story in a great video game is a much harder and longer process than making a great story in any other traditional story-telling medium.

>CTRL+F Ghost Trick
>0 results

>>376145530
>why would anyone capable of writing a really good story want to sit around waiting for a video game to develop to tell that story?
there's a far greater supply of writers than there is demand

>>376145482
You can have a good story without being innovative.

>>376145632
>far greater supply of writers

Writers, but not good writers.

I don't know how many writers set out to get educated and hone their craft for years just to write for video games, but I'd hazard a guess that it's pretty fucking close to zero.

Video games will get better stories when the social stigma over them goes away making experienced writers more likely to give them a chance. It's part of the reason Japanese games have better writing than western ones.

>>376127843

Really faggot? Games are garbage when they focus more on story.

>>376145632

That explains why we have writers in video games. The question here is why do they all seem to suck massive dick at their jobs.

The answer is that those writers are not main creative forces in making the video game, probably suck at working under stress and strife, don't know how/have the time to make good changes to a story when parts of the game is changed for other reasons, etc.

Video game development is simply a terrible environment for a writer. This is why the games we see developed that have good stories are typically ones where the director is doing much of the story work, or the writer is a main player in development for some reason. All classic Blizzard games fall under this area, the good Shadowrun games, as well as most Japanese games with good stories.

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>>376145852
>It's part of the reason Japanese games have better writing than western ones.

>>376129305
HL and Portal do a good job of placing history in the subtext for you to find out, and IMO that's how game should approach it, since that's something you can't quite do in a movie. That doesn't mean their stories were stellar either, they were pretty simple and characters were very MEH.

>>376134381
GoT was pretty good, until the writers decided they needed to keep it going instead of waiting for GRRM to give them source material. They made their own and you got the most expensive fanfiction (until The Force Awakens came out) of all time in Season 6.

>>376145482
It's painfully obvious you actually haven't played the game. Xenoblade Chronicles from 2009 for the Wii.

Great setups for the big plotpoints, honestly the best main cast of any game I've played, interesting themes about what being a real person means, moral dilemmas, feels, seriously amazing foreshadowing that only gets better on your second time through... And about MC being the chosen one? If you played the game, your jaw would drop from "the" plot twist you don't know about.

>>376139794
You forgot pacing. The reason anime is universally regarded as shit by anyone with actual taste for entertainment

>>376146097
Where do you think you are?

>>376146919
Pacing is a meme-word used by TV executives who never produced anything of worth in their life. Pacing means nothing as long as there's interesting material on the screen.

>>376140272
>i don't want gameds to make me Think!1!!!!!11! If they dont spoonfeed me their regurgitated garbage of a story theyre not good!!

>>376147068
You've got it backwards.

>Pacing means nothing as long as there's interesting material on the screen.

That is the exact attitude of those very execs and studios who produce nothing but fanservice garbage.

>>376146936


Last time I checked we're not on 420chan, because you have to be HIGH on DRUGS to think nippon makes good vidya stories

there's nothing good about AoT's story

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>>376127843
What makes a videogame story great is very different from what makes a movie story great.

Shadow of the Colossus, Silent Hill 2, and Dark Souls all have 10/10 stories, but their stories are largely derived from their world building and atmosphere.

That's why when a developer tries to emulate "cinematic story telling," it comes off as contrived and pretentious - ie the last of us - but critics eat that shit up because their so insecure about the perception of their medium.

here's some bonus material on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvwlt4FqmS0

>>376147068
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you seriously think pacing in a story doesn't matter at ALL? That is the stupidest thing I've read all day, and I've read this thread.

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>>376127843
>btw eren i'm the armored titan and my man berthold huawei is the colossal faggot

The scene was bad enough in the manga and I'm amazed how they fucked it up even more in the adaption. Shit man, at least put the focus on them and don't just let them talk over the other group while they stand in the rightmost corner possible. That shit was hilariously bad, considering the importance of the "reveal".

If you really think this shit has good writing, then consider sudoku.

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>>376142492
>LOTR
>hipster

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>>376147530
>Dark Souls
>10/10 story

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>Video Games
>story

>>376127843
>Watching attack on titan season 2
back you reddit faggot

>>376147695
I understand why they've done what they've done, but what I don't understand is why they've said it. My guess would be is that they wanted to try their chances with Even coming peacefully, though these chances were nearing 0 anyway.

>>376147881
>argument
>silly reddit face

Yeah the story and how it synergizes with the gameplay, atmosphere, and characters is nothing short of brilliant and among the best in the industry

>>376137460
im happy for you
but the clues were there, must have just watched it without thinking on it hard

>>376149089

>someone who thinks dark souls has good story
>calling anything else reddit


and no, a very simplistic "get these things then kill that fucker oh shit an imppportant choooice" is not a good story, no matter how many fanfics the youtubers write about it

>>376149540
>Shadow of the Colossus, Silent Hill 2, and Dark Souls all have 10/10 stories, but their stories are largely derived from their world building and atmosphere
>but their stories are largely derived from their world building and atmosphere

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvwlt4FqmS0

A game's story succeeds when it's story, gameplay, characters, and atmosphere are all perfectly insync, not by how well it emulates cinema. If you hate the cancerous cinematic shit that devs and critics try to push onto videogames then their should be no question that this is a correct assertion.

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>>376150264

an anime face is all your retardery deserves

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>>376142652
weeb posting on weeb board really makes you think

idk desu I've never read or seen a story in anything that was good

Enjoyable sure but a good story? Never seen one

>>376144375
Is this worth playing for the story, or should I wait for the remake?

>>376151140
The remake is going to have a different story with major changes, according to the devs, so I'd still play the retranslation.

>>376145530
>>376145787
Ken Levine says otherwise

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>>376145391
I feel like garbage after years of internet addiction. My house is full of shit coz im too lazy to clean up. I dont have a job. Im not dating anyone. I drink and smoke to escape from shitty, multicultural reality where everyone is an asshole. I feel lonely now when my friends have moved on with their lives and are too busy to play games.

So TLDR am i completely fucked or is 24 too late age to fix your life? I feel like there´s no future for me. Cant die and cant enjoy life either

>>376134381
>millions watching since Sword Art Online
Fix'd.

>>376129490
Reiner has developed two personalities to cope with what he was doing, which led him to casually reveal it to his friend so he could help his comrades. Then he realized how much he fucked up which toggled his other personality and made him attack. Bert was just a bystander watching helplessly

>SnK
>good story
>Reiner
>complex character
wew lad. go back to your general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymf-q6M28-g

This is too prefect that I wished I never read the manga..

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My dream is to eventually make a video game with a great story, AND great gameplay?
Can it be done? I've never seen it.

>>376139341
>Asura's wrath
Nice taste anon

>>376140452
>AW isn't a good game, the gameplay is borderline atrocious

Does the gameplay need to be better when it's as entertaining as it is regardless? I think calling AW bad because it's shallow gameplay would be like calling Myst or the Telltale games bad for it. It sort of misses the point of what they were trying to do.

It would be like saying Fantasia is bad because the lake of a coherent plot.

>>376147247
See >>376147530
Notice how they're all Japanese while the "bad" story (The Last of Us) is western.

>>376137020
>>Closing in on One Piece.
Only because One Piece dropped like 20 mil in sales in the last few years.

Also, being popular, doesn't mean it's good. Transformers movies make billions of dollars, but are dogshit.

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I want to marry Annie.

>>376155268
>Reiner
>not complex
Tell me why

>>376129673
Nothing can kill the Reinroach. Not even the Titan cancer.

>>376142186
Other way around. Soldier is a dead raging lesbian and Warrior wants to marry Christa.

>>376127843
>AoT has good plot
>no video games do
If you don't think there are any games with good stories, you haven't looked hard enough. Planescape Torment, Earthbound, IHNMAIMS, Shadow of the Colossus, Dark Souls and Beyond Good and Evil are all decent examples.

>>376155678
Shadow of the Colossus and Dark Souls.

>>376127843
You could have at least posted Madoka, dude.

>>376135740
>Gundam
Nah, Attack on Titan is literally Muv Luv but with flesh robots instead of real robots.

>>376158225
Muv Luv is good though.

>>376141680
By who's standards? Those who already are into gaming?

Gaming despite how much you all like it is still not as mainstream as the most mainstream music and movies are.

Outside of games like Minecraft and Overwatch only very few games ever reach that level of success. Also guess what? Those two games I mentioned aren't story games. Neither is Tetris. The most successful game of all time.

It is because developers and nu-male cucks as well as women keep forcing story into games that is ruining games. Stop forcing it. Good gameplay should always be primary.

>>376158495
Ayamine best girl

>>376140484
>actual gamers prefer New Vegas
I'm onto you Todd

>>376147695
The point was that it was casual enough that you'd miss it. Are you retarded?

>>376158652
>Popular=good
>Being TSO pleb that you defend Overwatch and Minecraft
>Tetris good for anything besides flexing your fingers for 3 minutes
Thank you, I'd prefer something complex and actually stimulating on levels beyond muscle memory and autistic need to neatly place all the blocks.

>>376159272
>better casually tell my target my greatest secret, not like I'm on a secret mission here
Don't even try

>>376151443
Okay, thanks anon

>>376159435
>Popular=good

That wasn't my point retard. My point is the most successful games that you can look up yourself aren't story heavy games.

Which means the money in gaming isn't from creating these story heavy games.

And thank god it isn't. I play games for gameplay. Not necessarily for stories.

Story comes second at best to gameplay.

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>>376159679
>deep world
>hammy story
>motherfucking FLAGS
Yis

>>376159589
>I haven't read the manga but I know I'm right

The reveal was done perfectly, and just as intended. You have to be an autist to not appreciate it, it really catches you off guard

>>376142652
it's bait dumbfuck

>>376160082
So, your point wasn't "popular=good", just "popular=popular"? Thanks for the wise words, fag. FF VII, RDR, TLoU — all were popular and raked in big dough. All of them — story-heavy normalfag games. Furthermore, all your arguments devolve into "well, I PLAY GAMES FOR GAMEPLAY" which proves just about nothing. And, just like a dozen other shitposters that cropped up recently — you're not ACfag, don't try to emulate his rhetoric.
>>376160368
Are you an imbecile? I've read your whole shitty manga in a day. Anyone with a brain could figure out it was them, especially after the Annie incident. Go back to jerking off your incompetent mangaka.

>>376130408
If you read the manga and still think that, than you have either some sort of cognitive disability or just dogshit taste. Take your pick.

>>376161473
No you massive fucking retard. The point is that even casual gamers often prefer a fun game to a story driven one.

Now shut your fucking obnoxious ignorant ass up and actually pay attention for once kek.

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>>376134381
>appeal to popularity
Well look at that, I have not seen people use it in years (seriously at least), when shit like bieber, 50 shades of grey, the kardashians and SAO were becoming popular, since it was so easy to dismiss with the same examples and no one wanted to claim bieber was good.

Ganbatte anon, even though snk kind of sucked and normalfags were too busy focusing on potato girl, the action and the gore to actually care about the story.

>>376128938
Bertholdt gets eaten by Armin, who becomes the new colossal titan

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>>376130759
Thread should've ended after this.
OP doesn't play vidya if he doesn't even know about this one.

>>376161656
You fucking ignortant imbecile. Casuals prefer whatever's served to them. This year it's character shooters, previously brown-tinted FPS' were in vogue. In-between were MOBAs and other shit. You're making a logical mistake saying that the taste of the lowest common denominator crowd actually matters and we all should learn from them. Gauging the medium by the tastes of people who don't know shit about it makes you as good an expert on games as an EA marketer. Also
>kek
kekkaroni kekkarinos kekkaronis and kekdos to you, idiot

>>376146097
They do. We have Deus Ex 1 and some shit like IHNMBIMS but Japanese devs easily put out more better written games

>>376152258
No it's not too late. If you have a decent community college near you go in for an allied health degree. Spend 9-12 grand for an associates and start a career. Dental hygienist gets paid well

>>376158495
>Muv Luv is good

people say this


what awful awful liars

>>376162593
Better than AoT at least.
I feel like you're about to tell me that Invader Zim and The Nightmare Before Christmas are the greatest pieces of Western animation ever. Get some taste.

>>376162312
Why are you this upset for over this topic? Why do you even want shitty story heavy games?

The point is gameplay > story

If you do not agree with this then you are a cancer here and should leave.

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>"oh hey, btw, I'm the armored titan and he's the colossal titan"
>"too bad we couldn't destroy all of humanity way back when, eh?"

That was the reveal?

That was the motivation?

Can some manga-reading autist enlighten me here on what the REAL motivation is?

>>376134381
its fine but better call saul is the only thing on tv worth watching

>>376163179
You're comparing completely uncomparable categories, goddamn idiot. Gameplay does not invalidate story or vice-versa, because storytelling is an innate capability of human media that seeps into everything we do and that's cool. Try to read a book about storytelling, maybe you'll learn something beyond your middle school education. Even something as pop and tired as Campbell could maybe help your tumor-ridden brain.
You've also completely evaded the fact that you used casuals as a decent metric for what games should be like. Neck yourself.

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>>376163117

autist-sama please, all three things you listed are much better than fucking muv luv

>>376163559
>because storytelling is an innate capability of human media that seeps into everything we do

No it doesn't retard. Most games had the most barebones story back in the late 80s to early 90's. Even into the mid to late 90's story wasn't looked at as this important thing that is such a must.

And yes it can invalidate story or gameplay you fucking idiot. Key word on "can" here. Seriously how old are you?

And no I never used casuals as a metric for what games should be you stupid sociopath. Actually pay attention to what I said rather than argue for the sake of arguing.

I don't care how much you like your stories. If you don't agree that gameplay should always be the most important part for the industry then yes you are a cancer just like feminist frequency was. Just like Zoe Quinn was. Just like EA is. You really are no different. Just a different smell of the same old moldy shit is all.

>>376127843
Because it's impossible to control the exact pace that someone experiences a game unlike in TV or film

>>376142759
>SNK has so many asspulls
Believe it or not, but according to the planning documents we've seen so far every single thing revealed so far was planned from the absolute beginning of the manga being written.

>>376163937
EDUCATE. YOURSELF. MOTHERFUCKER.
You don't even understand what storytelling is in gaming. Gameplay consists of literally nothing but mechanics and partly level design — the rest is constituted by the story. Without stories and storytelling every game would look the same — geometric shapes running, jumping, shooting on a black background with minimal white color distinction of platforms. Do you want every game to look like Magnavox Odyssey game? Because judging by your argument you sure pretend to do.
And don't start on something like "no story roguelikes". Those have lore copied straight from DnD, story-oriented game, as well as a defined quest with each session providing unique story encounters. People tell each other stories of their playthroughs of these "storyless" games. The fucking DF community is centered around stories of spectacular failure.
People who measure stories in dialogue only need to go and stay gone forever.

I like the bizarre emergent stories of games like SS13, Dwarf Fort, and Dominions

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I'm gonna trigger all of those contrarians in this thread
>Evangelion is S.H.I.T
>Shinji is the worst protagonist I've ever saw
>Muh shinji's feelings
>Muh religius symbolism
Why SnK is the best?
>Cool titans
>Great plot
>Likeable characters
>WW1 THEME
>Protagonist is not autist as fucking shinji
>Erwin is the best commander of any anime
>Fucking mindblowing plot twists
>Look at this fucking titan

>>376164986
Classic case of two people literally just shouting about their preferences at each other and getting nowhere. Neither person can be right or wrong. Fucking Christ how are people too dumb to realize you can't reach an objective conclusion.

>>376164986
I'm not reading your shit posts anymore. Go suck a cock loser. I'll keep preferring good games.