Since when did people start giving shit about combat "weight"?

It's a new meme from everyone favorite franchise: Monster Hunter.

Notice how this weight shit wasn't a thing in Ninja Gaiden & DMC.

>>376107168
Hey man, don't speak for other people. You like a different style of combat, that's cool. I like the other style, no problem, doesn't matter.

How about you just go play video games instead of complaining about them?

Monster Hunter is a fun game, but so is God Eater.

>>376107258
If only MHfags don't just complain about this in every goddamn threads.

>>376107231
There is hitstop in both of those series' you fucking neanderthal

Dark Souls style combat is not the same thing as a game feeling like it has weight: All good games feel like the characters have weight. All good games have a friction to them. Call it what it is: Slow paced.

Slow paced.

>>376107168
Weighty attacks and cancellable attacks are not mutually exclusive.

>>376107389
And there is hitstop in every series mentioned so far.

But the weight shit, that's a Monster Hunter meme.

>>376107407
Man, if Dark Souls is slow paced then I don't know what you are gonna call Monster Hunter and Dragon's Dogma.

>>376107168
>I want everything easy and baby-mode, the post
sup kid

>>376107625
Faster enemies are deadlier, not slower enemies.

File: MH4U-Raging_Brachydios_Render_001.png (548KB, 815x534px) Image search: [Google]

548KB, 815x534px

>>376107661
It doesn't have to be fast to be challenging

File: 1492662882219.jpg (527KB, 1000x562px) Image search: [Google]

527KB, 1000x562px

Remove Souls and MH fatasses

File: claw9.webm (3MB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 640x360px

Why can't I hold all these weight?

>>376107857
He said "deadlier" not "deadly".

Freeze frames are easy, but there is more to weight than that. How the sword collides with the environment, the sounds of impacting with stuff, the effect of impact on the enemy, does it ragdoll after death?

None of this is vitally important to make a good game, it's just good to have

>>376107306
>pancakes

>>376107168

lmao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2vCko6V4pQ

>>376108165
All these are just expensive animation usually done by mocap. Smaller devs like Falcom would never able to afford these. Also some over stylized games like Tales of who also operate on a tight budget also don't bother with precise animation.

>>376108165
>None of this is vitally important to make a good game,
Wrong! It most definitely is. How a game feels makes waves in how the whole game is digested. Imagine trying to finish one of those Final Fantasy games without having a polished, clicky menu. It'll be a lot more of a drag.

>>376107168

Took you long enough to realize MHFags and Souls autists love to throw shit like "attacks are floaty and have no weight" to discredit a good chunk of action games, ARPG regardless of other redeeming qualities.

Name three good games with floaty as fuck combat

>>376108393
Ys, PSO2, God Eater.

I ABSOLUTELY HATE IT WHEN SOMEONE SAYS MH HAS DEEP COMBAT WHILE DARK SOULS AND WITCHER IS ROLL AND SLASH

LOOK AT THE AVERAGE MH MONSTER FIGHT

LOOK AT IT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlIWIWgRPIA

10 FUCKING MINUTES OF ROLLING AND SLASHING AT THE DINO BUTT

10 FUCKING MINUTES

THAT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND FULL OF DEEP.

File: weg.jpg (658KB, 2696x802px) Image search: [Google]

658KB, 2696x802px

Code Vein thread?

>>376108471
Code Vein has weight and hitbox though.

>>376108530

It has hitboxes, but it still doesn't have weight. But I suppose that has more to do with the game only being 30% done.

>>376108580
How does it not have weight?

It's designed to be difficult by making the player overcome a hernia every time they want to swing a sword or something. Every enemy and character in the Souls games looks like they've got a limp or are otherwise incapacitated and for once I'd like to play a Souls game without this, but of course that'll never happen because the cancerous hivemind that is the Souls fanbase can't stand anything different.

Seriously, it's the same god damn points of praise in every assessment of these games (they're le tough but fair and you feel uhhhh the feels so good when you finally overcome the totally fair and not at all tedious challenge of enemies tracking my dodges and hitting me regardless).

It's like no one dares question that fundamentally the combat system is needlessly laborious and slow and the series has coasted to (relative) popularity because of the le so hardcore mentality.

If it was any other series at this point it would be savaged given how consistently poor the games look and run but everyone is too scared to criticise it so they just parrot the same phrases that got the series popular in the first place.

Gives me the fucking shits.

File: 1440293460077.gif (1MB, 533x300px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 533x300px

>>376108430
>that run cycle
Good lord

>>376108309
Some of it, sure, there are cheaper and more expensive ways of making combat "feel good". That's why freeze frames are seen so often, because they're cheap and incredibly easy to produce.

>>376108421
>pso2
>good
10/10

>>376108613

Because as was shown in the trailer, the character barely gives any effort in his swings and the monster make very little feed back from being hit

>>376108630
Souls ain't slow outside of DaS1 & DaS2.

People are just retarded.

Some of them dare even complain that faster more aggressive enemies make the "artificial difficult".

File: 1493716620672.webm (3MB, 900x506px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 900x506px

>>376108580
What is the definition of weight?

File: 45799762.png (74KB, 536x430px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 536x430px

>>376108430
>Player's health bar shakes when they get hit
These little details is what makes MH feel so real.

>>376108349
It's like every other aspect of a videogame, yes everyone of these individual things makes the game slightly better. Unless literally every single one of them is missing though it's very unlikely to drag a game down

>>376108430
>Using traps
>Using bait meat
>Using whetstones to keep your weapon sharp
>Using lightning rods in storms
>Using smoke grenades to hide yourself from monster
>Using deodorants if you got shit on
>Drinking to stave away the temperatures
Ah yes, I remember doing all those things in the best game ever, Dark Souls 1

>>376108769
Because he's swinging a super light weapon, and the monster is also being hit by a super light weapon?

inb4 but da sword is super heavy

>>376108792
>Souls ain't slow outside of two of the main games

>>376108471
You mean I'm not gonna get cute edgy girls in Code Vein?

"weight" is not just a video game thing, it's a fundamental animation concept

>>376108810
what game is this?

>>376107529
Dragon's Dogma is way faster paced than Dark souls for most classes

>>376108849
I don't remember 10 minutes of rolling and slashing to kill a monster in Dark Souls no.

>>376108849
None of those things require that much thinking

not to say the guy you're responding to is right, he clearly cherrypicked the most tedious weapon fighting an end game boss, but you can't really consider placing traps as "additional complexity"

>>376108810

Well for starters, it has something to do with both your character and the enemy reacting to the impact. It ranges to clouds of dust being blown off the floor to something more subtle like your character reeling in from the recoil of his weapon striking the ground or enemy.

>>376107168
But DMC and Bayonetta combat still have "weight" in the attacks, it's just a different kind.

>>376108863
Code:Vein threads are actually weightology threads

>>376108863

You'll still get them, but expect every Code Vein thread to be about physics because of MUH WEIGHT. Same shit happened with Darksiders 3 now that the gameplay was revealed.

>>376108939
That's straight out fucking wrong because 1/3 of the classes are slow ass warrior and sorcerors.

Even sorcerors in DaS is faster than DD's sorcerors.

File: 1465168241469.webm (3MB, 720x400px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 720x400px

>>376108810
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/06/in-praise-of-sticky-friction/

>>376107168
Since devs forgot how to make action games since the genre's been quasi-dead for the past two generations.
Giving weight to the animations has always been one of the most important things in an action videogame.
That doesn't mean the combat has to be slow, it just means the character needs to look like he's wielding a sword and not like he's holding a bamboo shoot.
DMC and Ninja gaiden aren't slow and their animations still have weight to them.

It's not science, it's animating 101.

>>376109008
Are the subjects that you're running these tests/theoretical situations on cute edgy girls though?

>>376108421
Ys games are fast and slick, but they absolutely give weighty reactions to smacking things. That's why most of them feel good to play while God Eater feels like a load of horse shit as you repeatedly slash at things with almost no haptic feedback.

>>376108962
Switch Axe is tedious now?

It's at least more interesting to watch than a charge-a-hammer or charge-a-sword.

>>376109059

Yes. See>>376108810

But as usual, /v/ takes "weight" really seriously and will ignore the cute test subjects. Why else do you think thicc posting is so prevalent here? It's all about weight.

>>376109038
I'll just have to be the idiot posting them in the background while everyone shitposts about that stuff then.

>>376109059
No, you get to whine about weightless combat as a cute edgy girl

>>376109056
Do you actually wield a sword before?

You realize some are as light as bamboo shoot right?

>DMC and Ninja gaiden aren't slow and their animations still have weight to them.
Proof?

>>376109052
that's right, though.
Strider,Assassin,Ranger,Mystic Knight,Mystic Archer are most of the classes and are faster than DaS
Sorcerer is slow, granted , Warrior is slow but not slower than say a zweihander build because his animations are cancelable into exodus slash which is jump cancelable.

All the other classes and faster than most dark souls combat. movement on the map is faster. Enemies move and attack faster than DaS in endgame.

>>376108962
I wouldn't consider as well, but all those things add up.
>I forgot you could cut off parts on almost all monsters to maim and disable them
All those options give you many ways to approach killing a monster, instead of just roll and poke its ass.

>>376109147
It's a pretty one dimensional weapon anon, and hitting monsters shins doesn't require a large amount of timing

File: claw3.webm (3MB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 640x480px

I only play weighty videogames for weighty people like myself

>>376109203
The characters should still look like they're putting their weight into each swing instead of waving it at the other guy.
And just play the games, or hell, just look them up on Youtube, if you're a casual scrub.

>>376109038

What's stupid is that both those games are still on early stages of development and /v/ assumes it will be the end result.

>tfw you'll never kill all soulsfags

>>376109241
Strider, mystic archer. and Assassin are about the same class as the fast-roll characters in DaS.

But mystic knight and ranger are not faster than normal weight DaS2 characters.

>Warrior is slow but not slower than say a zweihander build because his animations are cancelable into exodus slash which is jump cancelable.
Zweihander is faster than a warrior, your attack being jump cancelable does not make the swing speed faster.

>All the other classes and faster than most dark souls combat. movement on the map is faster.
Movement on the map definitely favors low weight Dark Souls, the way you move in DD is slow.
>Enemies move and attack faster than DaS in endgame.
Also wrong, the average goblins are less dangerous than the fire hollows.

>>376109151
>>376109162
Eh that's good enough, I'll take it. I'll just be (hopefully) playing dress up while you guys apply science and video game design ideas to it then.

Hope we at least get a few threads every now and then though and not ones like GE where it's 1/3 complaining about stuff, 1/3 MH IS BETTER/GE IS BETTER pointless arguements and 1/3 a few people that genuinely like the game sadly having their threads deleted prematurely.

>>376109276
>Jho with heroics and no tremor res/earplugs doesn't require timing

>>376109272
Also true but that really isn't taken to the extreme it should be taken to

cutting off tails doesn't stop rathians from poisoning you, often breaking claws doesn't stop the monsters from super quick jumps. Sometimes these things happen, but they really should occur more often

>>376109373
>He actually believes pre-alpha bullshit

>>376109348
>The characters should still look like they're putting their weight into each swing instead of waving it at the other guy
No, real sword combat is not swinging the sword like club, it's about how fast you swing and you fast you parry.
>And just play the games, or hell, just look them up on Youtube, if you're a casual scrub.
I play DMC3 and Bayonetta, and none of those games are about "weighty" combat, you cannot move and slash like DMC3 in real life.

>>376109272
So can you kill that monster by bomb alone?
Because in DaS, you can kill shit by magic alone.

>>376109517
Which Code Vein has.

>>376109553
Sleepbombing is the best way to kill Alatreon in under 3 minutes

I'm a weirdo and like both extremes. In MH for example, I use Greatsword mostly and I have a blast. But I also love DMC4 because of Dante's Style switching and the amount of crazy horseshit you can do if you're quick enough. It just depends on the game really. I will say that games have taken a step away from the super fast paced stuff, only because stuff like DMC, Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden had a niche fanbase.

MGRR had absolutely no weight in its combat and I don't see anyone complaining about that aside from how shallow the combat was.

>>376109441
I don't remember saying that anon, just that the switchaxe itself doesn't require a lot of timing.

Obviously heroics runs are rather impressive to people who have played monster hunter, but to an outsider that video looks incredibly boring

>>376108919

Code Vein

>>376109489
No, you fucking idiot. I'm not saying DMC plays like fucking MH.
I'm saying Dante's attacks are well animated and have a feeling of weight to them. Not that they're weighty, for fuck's sake.
Here, read a book. https://www.amazon.com/Illusion-Life-Disney-Animation/dp/0786860707

>>376109348
>>376109489
it's not about putting your weight into each swing, it's animating whatever your character your doing with the consideration for appropriate weight and momentum of the characters and their tools

exaggerated weight or strength is not the same as no weight or strength in the animation

like if you make a half circle swing with a sword, when it comes to stop it will have to slow down appropriately, and your characters movement should display this sudden change in the direction of force application

>>376108421
>pso2
>good
God no.

>>376108769

On the bright side, even the Japs are actually complaining in the comments on how weightless the combat in the trailer was. That's something you don't see everyday, especially when these are probably also the same people who like GE.

The combat is more satisfying to me when attacks actually have inertia and presence, and when enemies recoil, flinch or stagger from those attacks. Or even show a sign of being hit at all.

I like the DMC series but I tend to enjoy Souls/BB combat a little more because actions and reactions feel like they take place in the game world instead of some undefined z axis.

>>376108810
I think "weight" here refers to the way the giant Antler horn thing just kinda daintly plops down with no impact on the world. The first bit looks okay, though. I'd say something about stagger but that seems to be a boss type enemy and it's about as responsive as hitting Dancer of the Boreal Valley while she's attacking, really.

>>376109713
So this is feeling now?

Because realistically, Dante has no way to swing a sword like that, or jump like that.

>>376109454
Agreed. Breaking things should have more apparent effects.
>>376109553
Fair enough, Souls does have magic.

>>376109626
Jesus christ. People are really retarded about what weight is referring to in the context of these games.

>>376109729
>like if you make a half circle swing with a sword, when it comes to stop it will have to slow down appropriately, and your characters movement should display this sudden change in the direction of force application
This is not a thing even in god-tier action like DMC3.

You want this, you need a good physic engine.

>>376109553
Entirely viable if you bring the crafting materials

>>376109605
Bit out of nowhere, but you think you can help me understand something? I wanna know why the random group I joined in Gen to fight Alatreon got pissed and left after I ate my meat, drank my Cool Drinks then jumped down immediately to fight him.

Did I do something wrong?

So basically "weight" just means "I want enemies to stagger when I hit them because I can't deal with anything that isn't stopped by my attacks"

Guess it makes sense coming from people trying to act hardcore while playing easy games

>>376109784

>context

Which is? outside of the QTEs, Raiden chops robots that are several tons heavy like hot butter with no slowdowns at all.

>>376109416
>Strider, mystic archer. and Assassin are about the same class as the fast-roll characters in DaS.
No. attacks come out quicker, are chained quicker, they have more movement options and they move quicker on the field.

>Zweihander is faster than a warrior, your attack being jump cancelable does not make the swing speed faster.
it's faster because you can react to more external stimuli and chain attacks and create combo faster. Also the light jump attack is faster than any ultrasword attack.
Ranger has the same speed as strider, I believe. Been a while since I have played ranger.
Mystic Knight depends heavily on how you play the class, it can be slow, but not necessarily.
>Also wrong, the average goblins are less dangerous than the fire hollows.
I didn't say dangerous, I said it was faster. Also, I said endgame/
In BBI; fucking fire wolves which are very common are not only faster than DaS enemies but also more dangerous than fire hollows so I don't know why you're bringing that up.
>Movement on the map definitely favors low weight Dark Souls, the way you move in DD is slow.
I disagree, I should replay DD but moving in DD definitely felt faster to me.

>>376109782
Of course it's not realistic, you idiot. Dante's a fucking half demon.

>>376109729
That's what I mean when I say putting weight into it. Giving it inertia and the character needs to react to the sword appropriately.

>>376109859
This is wild speculation, but I believe that if you wait long enough the alatreon walks right under where you fall into the arena, giving you a free mounting attack.

By jumping early you got aggro and distracted him from his path

>>376109783
Souls also don't have bosses that last 11 minutes, even on NG+ that's massive HP spoonge and not a good game design since it turns into endurance instead of skill.

Speed ≠ weightless. So many of you do not seem to understand this.

>>376109876
Except not because in games like DMC and Bayonetta enemies have super armor during attack animations and can't be staggered.

>>376109876

What's funny is even in DaS, that's bullshit if that's your definition of weight.

Almost all bosses in Souls games have poise that dont react to your hits until you poise break them.

>>376109928
It is endurance but it's also 11 minutes of killing the monster as quickly as possible, how is that not skill?

>>376109907
So if Dante is half-demon, then my character is half-vampire, I guess weights shouldn't apply then?

If you are all arguing about feelings then I'm outta here.

>>376109850
it has nothing to do with physics in the sense in video games, it's just animation

here's a little example from mgr:
https://youtu.be/HaHrdK6XNW0?t=66
notice how when sundowner unsheathes his sword and swings it down, despite being an incredibly fast movement the swords still carry a bit of momentum and "spring" at the end of the movement (not the full-body shot, just the shot that focuses on his swords specifically)
that's weight

It's so cute to see threads like these on /v/, where half of the people posting don't even know the concept the thread is about and still keep going.

It's even more hilarious when op doesn't understand what they are talking about, even.

File: BBnoROP.png (165KB, 487x410px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 487x410px

So, is this "weight" thing the new buzzword around there?

When did this happen?

>>376110031
Because at that point, it's about repeating the same damn thing for about 10 minutes.

>>376109927
I suppose that'd make sense, I hear he's a very hard fight if you're not prepared. Maybe I was in the wrong then.

That's like getting pissed at someone for using traps on an Elder Dragon when he's never fought one before though.
The frustration's understandable, but not the full blown anger.

>>376110094
It's like describing controls as 'clunky' or 'floaty', it's shorthand to imply there's something wrong with the way a game controls but it's otherwise difficult to put into words exactly what is wrong.

>>376110094
Yes, now it's about animation: >>376110070

And feelings.

I stop giving a shit about what people here say.

>>376110042
Holy shit, you are actually retarded.

>>376110187
He's a hard fight, but if your team was THAT upset about missing 4 free attacks then they were probably going to lose regardless

>>376110094
I first saw it being brought up in Berserk Musou threads. Some autist always bitched about it being musou and kept acting like the dogshit PS2 game was good

>>376110224
it was always about animation, weight is an animation concept

>>376109928
I don't know, the length is part of the appeal. I mean you are a tiny whelp trying to beat down a monster. Killing a difficult monster after literally 30 mins of running around feels very rewarding. Then again, I really wouldn't expect everyone to enjoy that.

>>376110224
It's always been about animation, you complete moron. What did you think people were complaining about, that the main character didn't weigh 300 pounds?

>>376107168
its just a normie meme for when they don't know what to bitch about but they have to if they wanna fit in

>>376109887
I'm gonna let people be the judge:

This is Dark Souls gameplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u9TtsNtEJY

This is DD gameplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TWDfltu6_w

DD has those weird ass hit lags when you hit the enemies which slow down the combat compared to DaS.

>>376107231
The most important gameplay in a fighting-type game is the ability to cancel.
"Weight" is the lack of ability to cancel.

>>376110260
Well I mean it's not like I did very well after they left either, so I'm not gonna bash their skill level.

Then again Fatalis put me through the wringer for awhile and now I just find him boring to fight, so maybe I've got a shot in the long run.

>>376110313
So really, the part of the appeal of MH is about doing the same thing for over 10 minutes.

Fuck that, good game rewards skill by making you kill bitch fast, not by doing the same thing for 10 minutes.

>I mean you are a tiny whelp trying to beat down a monster.
You are a tiny whelp somehow swinging a giant ass weapon like it's nothing.

>>376110376
DMC and MGR and NG and Bayo and what else have weight to their animations and cancelling.
Because the two are completely unrelated, shit for brains.

>>376110280
>>376110318
Weight is fucking physics.

So basically, if I put a bit of blood into the enemy when the sword hits, there's weight now?

File: 6ae.jpg (25KB, 680x680px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 680x680px

>>376109054
i fucking hate that site

>>376110376
Not really, an uncancellable move can have a weighty feel. Weight is entirely related to character animation and to enemy reaction animations. It always comes back to animation.

>>376110376
You are incredibly retarded. Every Every Platinum Game has weight to their animations yet the animations can be cancelled by simply dashing.

You can make satisfying animations with punch to them and still have incredibly fast action.

>>376110442
10 minutes is fast when the average player takes 30 minutes.

>>376110535
You sound like a redditor talking about 4Chan

>>376110447
>weight to their animation
>and cancelling
>swinging a sword mid-way
>suddenly animation stop and you go back to the beginning
Yep, sure is weight.

Cancelling destroys momentum and shit.

>>376110508
Hit sparks are one way of making a hit feel good, but add some hit stun and hit stop to really make it feel like it has impact. 'Weight' is about physics kinda, but a game doesn't have to have realistic physics to feel good eg aerial combat in a DMC game. Most games with good combat have cartoon physics like something out of a Looney Tunes short

>>376110576
Jesus christ, a 30 minute fight.

No, screw MH, that's not good game design.

>>376109782
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUU6FdGsYyc

It's the visual effects on the attacks that give it the appearance of weight. Vergil's Yamato moveset feels weighty because when he actually swings the blade there's a bit of delay before it comes out with lightning speed. The visual distortion behind each swing also helps in emphasizing the speed of the attack. The blur effect on the stinger moves give an illusion of crazy fast speed, making the impact of enemies getting sent flying backwards more believable even though you aren't even moving that quickly.

>>376110442
The appeal's in the conquest, not so much the repetition.

Also sub 10 minutes is endgame kill times, or 4 Hunters vs. 1 Monster kill times.
I'm usually at the 20-30 mark, maybe 45-50 (50 being time out failure) if I'm struggling.

>>376110224
So, you didn't understand what concept was about, and now you are mad that you learned something?

Internet is dangerous place like that.

File: 1469238628166.jpg (53KB, 493x365px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 493x365px

>>376107168
reminder that if you take the weight out of monster hunter attacks, you get Dauntless

https://youtu.be/Y_93VP4Q0d0?t=189

>>376110661
If it's about feelings then we really have nothing to argue.

Carry on.

Mount and Blade has weight, momentum and physics.

DMC doesn't.

>>376110664
It's only 10 minutes if you're good.
>good game rewards skill by making you kill bitch fast

>>376110709
No, we have a different definition of weight.

For me weight means physics and momentum.

Not animation quirks.

>>376108815
> health bar
> real

>>376110715
Looks about the same. I think the bigger issue with Monster Hunter and its clones is how retarded the AI is designed to be.

>>376110751
10 minutes is still too long for a skill-rewarding game.

The hardest DMC fight takes 4 minutes to finish if you are good.

>>376107231
Both of those games already have it. So no need to complain.

>>376110791
Well, then you're a total retard who didn't even understand what the whole conversation was about.
No one was complaining about the physics of code vein or Darksiders3, we're complaining about the animations not conveying a feeling of weight properly because they're shoddy.

>>376110675
>weight
>currently swinging a sword
>bamf
>sword get back to back

Fuck you and your point.

DMC destroys physics, momentum due to the fact you can cancel, the game is meant to be realistic and weightless.

>>376110718
It's not that DMC lacks physics, it just doesn't have realistic physics. Realism doesn't automatically make a game feel good to play. Super Mario isn't realistic, but it still feels 'weighty'. The same is true of the gunplay in Doom. You are right that sort of that what makes a game feel good is often related to subjective feeling on behalf of the game designer

>>376110883
Endurance is a skill

I'd argue it's far more likely for you to get lucky in 4 minutes than in 15, meaning that all these short games are less skill based

>>376110917
But they don't?
>>376110945
So this shit isn't gameplay, it's just nitpick over animation?

Nice to know.

>>376108309
Tales of also don't bother with a good story with good characters either.

>>376110883
It's sub 5 minutes if you learn to work with other players well, that what you want? Otherwise it'll take longer than solo hunting.

>>376110791
You don't fucking make definitions to fucking words.
Or, you can, but no one is going to take you seriously.

Fun fact, as you seem to hate these. This thing we post now is called a thread, but thread is also type of yarn and a building block for many of the clothes you might be currently wearing.
The more you know.

>>376111014
Endurance is not a skill though.

Endurance is what happens when you lack skill.

>>376110970
Sword swings in DMC can only be cancelled during their recovery frames. It isn't realistic but you can't just cancel moves willy-nilly, there's still a degree of commitment to attacks. Dark Souls is the same way actually. Bayonetta on the other hand gives you the ability to cancel moves whenever you want.

File: 45887992.jpg (49KB, 480x401px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 480x401px

>>376110843
It helps simulates the feeling of getting hit besides getting flung all over the floor

>>376111093
So weight is not physic, it's not momentum, it's actually animation?

Tell your local physic teacher that.
>>376110978
Next time don't complain a game is weightless, say it lacks animations you like.

>>376111041
It's an action game. Animations are incredibly important to make the game feel better to play and fun.
If the PC feels like he's always just swinging leaves through enemies who also feel like they're swinging leaves when both have huge fuck off swords, the game won't feel very good because none of the attacks will have a satisfying punch to them which is the death kneel of action games.
And if you can't understand that then you're probably an underage fag who's never played a good action game in your life or are too stupid to tell.

>>376110883
Two completely different types of games.
DMC is about going through levels with lots of various enemies littered around them. MonHu is about killing a monster, sometimes two, but generally it's you and one big thing.

Thus one monster is MH is not equivalent of one enemy in DMC, but one closer to one level.

>>376111115
This literally makes no sense and you just said it to try and sound deep

Performing a challenging task without errors for 15 minutes is objectively harder then doing it for 4 minutes

>>376111120
And? It destroys the entire point of DMC having weight when sword can swap in and out of existence.

>>376108430
Except it takes a shit ton of skill to do what he did, he never took one hit and he would die if he was so much as tapped.

>>376111041
>So this shit isn't gameplay, it's just nitpick over animation?
Do you not know what hit stun is either?

>>376110664
Most people aren't good at soloing MH. The majority of hunts in the series can be killed in 5 - 10 minutes if you're appropriately geared and understand the monster.

Less once you're at endgame or playing with others.

>>376111115
My bad I wasn't aware you're retarded.

>>376111115
>Endurance is not a skill though.
Nigga what

>>376110568
>Every Every Platinum Game has weight to their animations yet the animations can be cancelled by simply dashing.
That's not weight then. It's just the animation being slow or having a delay.
Arguments about the exact semantic of "weight" have been going on throughout the thread. But what people are actually referring to is the lack of ability to cancel.
People on /v/ used to know what cancelling was and why it was important.

>>376110970
Now where did I mention the Force Edge combo in my post? How about you actually read my post and actually watch the video before posting friendo.

>>376111180
Are you actually, literally, incapable of understanding that one word can have multiple definitions?

You have actual real problem. There is something fucked up in your head and, please, go see a professional about it. Not dealing with that will make your life just harder in long run.

>>376111234
So? The same for the Witcher and Souls games, one hit and you get swarmed and die.
>>376111215
Not really, endurance is what happens you lack the skill to do things, so you have to endure.

>>376111041
>Gameplay is just pure mechanics and has nothing to do with visuals, animations or sound

That's really dumb-
In RPG's or Puzzle Games that might be true but for Action Games these factors are huge contributors to how enjoyable the game actually is.

>>376111323
Fuck off you retard, none of that shit can happen in any witcher game, souls i will give you but thats only if you're dumbshit enouhg to walk into 5 rooms at once.

>>376111248
>understand the monster
That's important point though. Your first runs against monster probably takes a longer time and only through repetition you get to the 5 to 10 minute runs.

>>376111231
>>376111280
People are using the term 'weight' in a colloquial manner rather than a literal one. This whole thread is really just autistic pedantry

>>376111247
God Eater has hit stun, does this mean it has weight now?
>>376111312
Wait, what?

Weight can mean animation now?

Do you just make up your definition?
>>376111296
Your video destroys the idea of DMC having weight, no need to read it.

>>376111280
No, no one was talking about not having the ability to cancel until you came along.
People were praising games like DMC and Ninja Gaiden, both of which very much have cancelling.

this thread is a good argument for instituting death squads

>>376111356
Witcher 2 & 3 on dark & death march means you die in one hit.

Witcher 2 has a permadeath where you die when you get killed.

>If you can cancel the combat lack weight
Siderolling in MH with GS after attacks is pretty much recovery frame cancel and doesn't look off in any way.

It's a retarded argument anyway, attack's weight doesn't change because you magically know you can cancel it midway. Before you press the "cancel button" the frames are exactly the same as a "weighty" attack yet magically the possibility makes animation not weighty.

>>376111396
So what does weight mean now?

Animation when you hit something?

File: tubular.jpg (74KB, 646x359px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 646x359px

>>376111014
>Endurance is a skill
It's masochism and it's not fun.
Skill is gained through perseverance. Endurance is accepting a skill plateau.

>>376111408
>Do you just make up your definition?
No because the idea of weight as a animation term, is largely and commonly accepted way of using the term and there is actual professional literature about the subject that uses the term.

>>376108810
Huh. Where's that other webm showing a combo instead of just a single hit?

>>376111473
Yeah, in DMC it looks off, with sword phasing from mid-way and go back to the scabbard.

And the fact you can "cancel" a sword swing means the sword has no weight or momentum.

>>376111450
>permadeath where you die when you get killed
what

>"Weight is about enemies reacting to your hits"
>"No! Weight about extremely subtle animations that the majority of people don't notice"
>"No! Weight is shaky hit stops"
>"No! Weight is a FEELING"

Seriously, guys

>>376111545
Please cite your source.
>>376111584
You don't know?

>>376111502
It's the sum of a games animations that contribute to a game creating a satisfying sense of kinaesthetia. Eg. you swing a sword in game it may not realistically react like a physical sword in the real world, but there is an inexplicable sense of satisfying 'weight' to it.

>>376111651
Do we die when we're killed?

>>376111508
So you're saying that skill plateaus don't exist and most action games don't have weapons with very visible highest damage rotations that you ideally want to do and in perfect conditions they can drain all boss hp in only X minutes.
>>376111583
So if I magically put hidden cancel frame (just one in some weird place) on your favorite WEIGHTY sword swing, it's weighty as long as you don't know you can cancel it?

>>376111648
Well, this is /v/.

I'm gonna enjoy me some Code Vein.

>>376111696
Not in game, no, when you can load game.

File: 1467702366809.webm (3MB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 960x540px

>>376111419
The funny thing is people are arguing over the basic question of What Is Weight? when >>376109054 provided the answer 130 posts and seven years ago.

>>376111408
>God Eater has hit stun, does this mean it has weight now?
A stagger after x amounts of hits is not a hit stun anon. I brought up hit stun because getting hit by a big ass hammer and stopping someone in their tracks is a gameplay thing, not an animation thing.

>being able to cancel your move whenever you want

such skill

>having to think about things and calculate your actions in a way that every attack hits and you don't expose yourself or fuck up

lol less skill

why are DMC fans such terrible human beings?

>>376111408
Boy you aren't very good at trolling are you?

>>376111672
>>376111705
So shut the fuck up because it's not weight you want.

You want animation quirks.

It's fucking stupid and unrealistic for a "weighty" game to have cancel frame that swaps your weapon.

This is why Mount and Blade is weighty and your Monster Hunter is not.

>>376111450
>challenge modes count guys

KYS

>>376111648
It's all of those. There are various ways to add a punchy feeling to attack animations.
No one is arguing between any of those, they're arguing than none of them even mean anything which is retarded because there are lengthy fucking books out there written by professional animators just to detail how to add a feeling of weight to animation and what it is.

>>376111747

Animation can accentuate it though.

>>376111747
>A stagger after x amounts of hits is not a hit stun anon.
But that's an exactly a hit stun, anon.
>I brought up hit stun because getting hit by a big ass hammer and stopping someone in their tracks is a gameplay thing, not an animation thing.
And God Eater has that?

>>376111793

>M&B
>Weighty

FUCK OFF. I love me some M&B, but weighty is not what I'd call it especially when you can swing a greatsword forever without any fucking recoil. M&B is slow paced in terms of combat, but weighty? It's not.

>>376111739
While DMC4SE having Vergil was neat I really didn't like most of the changes to the yamato or Beowulf. The yamato swings felt weaker because they didn't have the delay or the distortion to them. The new judgement cuts and perfect judgement cuts are A+ though, god damn.

>>376111815
Wut?

>>376111793
See, now your just being an autistic pedant.

>>376111751
Being able to cancel your moves more, not actually whenever you want, gives player more freedom to react. Of course if you put Dark Souls tier slow enemies to booth you will not get much challenge since reacting is easy, but easy cancelling is made to make enemies faster and put more of them.

Slow systems need to tread carefully with limiting how fast and how many enemies you get, because at some point the player is (game) physically impossible to do much without going for some glitches and the like.

>>376111793
>So shut the fuck up because it's not weight you want.

>You want animation quirks.
>That convey weight

>>376111739
And people will say this has weight for some reasons.

Do you realize Vergil swing that sword faster than bamboo shoot?

>>376111886
Wut, you can swing a greatsword forever, but the you swing it is slow and make you open for attack.

How fast you move also affects the damage also.

So that's both physics and momentum.

>>376110715
If you take the weight out of Monster Hunter and replace them with flashy, overcrowding effects, you get the X subseries.

>>376111858
skip to 23: 20 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRvls89ygTY
and compare it to the DD provide here>>376110359 at 3:10 seconds. to see what a hit stun is anon,

>>376111853
they can, but it's still a gamplay thing over an animation thing.

>>376111968
Weight != slow
You've misunderstood the core concept of the entire argument and look like a fool.
Congratulations, join the rest of the retards in this thread.

>>376111946
Such as...blur motion, or hit spark, or blood spurt?

Oh such weight.

>>376111707
Vein?

>>376112056
But weighty thing will make you have trouble swinging thing, making you slower.

And that katana is a heavy weapon.

>>376111968
To be fair they sped up most of Vergil's moves in 4. In 3 they were a bit slower but looked like they had more impact. Also Vergil is a demon who can swing the blade like a million times in a flash because anime.

File: 1435098551687.webm (2MB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 640x480px

>>376111898
I think it was the wimpy way out to add new characters instead of rewriting the game. But I guess that ship has sailed.

>>376111968
And yet when the controller vibrates and the sound effects drum through, it all feels like those blows are heavy and that you're really making an impact. Isn't it inspiring? Maybe you're talking about the pacing of a game rather than the feel? You can be slow and have no weight.

WebM related: The other end of the "fast" spectrum where there is no weight. Slow the webm down to a sixteenth of the speed, it won't have any more weight.

>>376112047
So a hit stun is a staggering effect each time you hit an enemy?

How is that a good design, it effectively slows down the combat of the game each time the hit hits.

inb4 muh weight

No, it doesn't make sense in real life, sword slash doesn't stun like that.

>>376108430
Peace walker taught me all I needed to know about Monster Hunter.

>>376112120
In fairness it's a heavy weapon wielded by a demon with superhuman strength.

>>376112130
So anime is an excuse then.
>>376112140
Animation effects do not make weight.

Actual physics and momentum do.

>>376112218
Just like EVERY FUCKING PROTAGONIST EVER.

THE UNDEAD
THE WITCHER
THE VAMPIRE
THE GOD OF WAR

>>376112078

TELL ME ABOUT VEIN. WHY DOES SHE WEAR THE MASK

File: 2XY7tJ9.jpg (365KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

365KB, 1280x720px

Weight isnt the best term

It's more about the perception of momentum and the impact feedback that makes it so viscerally satisfying

>>376112183
You know that feeling when you first cut into a vegetable and there's a bit of resistance before you slice through?
That's what hitstun is meant to recreate.

>>376112183
Get punched in real life. See if you can just shrug it off, and pretend nothing happened.

>>376112078
If I take that off, will you die?

>>376112306
Which is called weight in animation terms.

>>376112306
Nether of those contain anticipation, which is additional important element.

>>376112317
Based on how you get punched you can very much shrug most of it.

>>376112308
That resistance does not slow my cutting motion.

Emulating that by making the game slows down each time you hit is not a good design.
>>376112317
I get slapped before, the world doesn't fucking slow down each time I'm hit.

>>376112183
>How is that a good design
It's feedback letting you know you're hitting a good spot without damage numbers popping up on screen or something
https://youtu.be/SARYgio82HE?t=91

>>376107168
Feedback can assist making weapons and combat overall more satisfying.

>>376107306
Monster Hunter is a great example of it, contrast to something like Toukiden where almost all weapons in the game have almost no real feedback.

>>376112306
>perception of momentum
>in game where you can cancel and swap out moves
Fuck that.

As said, Mount and Blade has weight. DMC doesn't.

File: nsmbu.jpg (195KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

195KB, 1280x720px

>>376111705
>So you're saying that skill plateaus don't exist
Here's a nickel kid. Get yourself a real video game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H13vPl6p7hY

>>376112308
Hitstop generates that feeling of resistance. Hitstun is a flinch animation where that the enemy can't cancel (hence hit'stun'). It's possible to have hitstop but no hitstun like when you strike and enemy in a game that has super armor.

Basically it means your game is shit.

Like the new Darksiders.

File: 1459128462592.webm (2MB, 1100x619px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1100x619px

>>376112231
You're saying that if you were to take a game, remove the hit stop, the screen-shake, the hit particle, the dust clouds, and the blood spurts, the game would feel equally heavy, equally weighty? Just... What.

Why don't you watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy0aCDmgnxg

>>376112430
But in Dragon's Dogma, EVERY HITS slow down the game.

You can look in that vid, it effectively makes DD slower than Dark Souls.
>>376112440
Yep, like all the feedback in this vid: >>376108430

I would say DaS bosses are more responsive.

Alright, buck this thread. All you retards don't understand the first thing about animating.
I'm out.

>>376112231
>Anime is an excuse then

Not an excuse, just the setting and what the character in that setting can do according to that setting's rules. If I was playing Chivalry for example and someone performed a judgement cut on me I'd be very confused by the anachronism, where in the Devil May Cry games it makes sense because that's just what the character is capable of.

>>376112496
Mount and Blade is actually really weighty despite having next to no animation.

it's all about how you calculate the swing speed, and the fact your speed affects your damage and you kill.

>>376112120
all objects have weight you fucking troglodyte

animation having weight to it doesn't mean that you have to swing a sword like a fully loaded olympic barbell

>>376112447
Not an argument.

>>376112542
See here:
>>376112280

EVERY HACK AND SLASH ACTION PROTAGS ARE BADASS MOFOS WHO DEFY PHYSICS

>>376112582
No, but the katana is actually a heavy weapon, and you cannot swing like that IRL.

>>376112395
>Slapped is the same as getting punched
Yeah no I'm done.

>>376112380
A punched to the head, stomach, or balls is enough to make even seasoned fighters stagger. And even taking enough body and arm blows is enough to slow you down in a fight.

>>376112532
Apparently, weight means animation quirks now.

Fuck off bitch boy.

>>376108810
That just looks bad, while I would love to see someone come and shake the "soulslike" formula, the attacks here have no impact to them, there's just a small slash effect when you hit something, in a way, it looks like he's just slashing the air since neither the character nor the enemy reacts to the hit

>>376112567
Mechanically, yes, but everyone here is talking about how a game feels.
Have a man punch a boulder as hard as he can, then have a slightly weaker man punch a training dummy. Sure the first man is technically putting more weight into his hit, but most people will say that the latter man is displaying a more weight.

>>376112704
Look at boxing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-m_vjYW29A

The world doesn't slow down every times you are hit, or you hit, anon.

even.when I was a kid Idropped game that had shitty combat on the playstation.
I mean.seriously look at Horizon 0 Dawn, it's a game based ar ound bow and arrow and.they didn't even feel the need to have the arrows feel like arrows when Oblivion did it a billion years ago...

>>376112567
No, it affects the damage numbers but has no effect on the kill. If you smack someone's head in with a Sledge hammer vs a 1 damage tickle from a wooden club, they will both give you the same canned animation. If you couch lance someone at full speed on a horse, he doesn't get send flying across the field. That's not good feedback for physics even if it does affect gameplay.

>>376112774
Good thing we are speaking about GAMEPLAY MECHANICS, and not fucking animation i.e. graphics.
>>376112735
Stop trolling.

>>376112616
Would you rather play as a pathetic wimpy normal human in these over the top action games?

>>376112704
>A punched to the head, stomach, or balls is enough to make even seasoned fighters stagger. And even taking enough body and arm blows is enough to slow you down in a fight.
Only actually heavy or/and precise punches do it. Usually in boxing you have lots of punches even causing bleeding but luckily enough not much more. You either need to hit some organs or cause concussion but it's not that easy.

>>376112828
>I don't like it
>s-stop it you troll!

File: 62253578_p18_master1200.jpg (246KB, 865x896px) Image search: [Google]

246KB, 865x896px

I heard you all were talking about bamboos, what about them?

>>376112821
So because you don't get a cool death animation, it isn't good feedback?

Fuck that, the feedback is the damage number and how fast you kill by using momentum, that is real weight.

>>376112828
In any game feedback of your actions is directly related to gameplay.
They are not separate things. You literally can't have good action game with shitty animations.

>>376112828
You came into a thread discussing an Anime game with absolutely no gameplay mechanics shown except for its animation and you insist on talking about gameplay of some other games?

>>376112567
Don't fucking pretend that people don't use the macro to make every swing do max damage on mount and blade you cunt.

>>376112874
Code Vein has both hit stop and hit stuns.

Just that not every hit by your normal sword stuns like in DD.

>>376112828
Both mechanics AND graphics AND sound are how you make a game have FRICTION. WEIGHT.
Would you read this damn article >>376109054 already you illiterate son of a gun?

>>376112778
Hitstun and hitstop isn't meant to be realistic, it's an exaggerated approximation of combat that serve gameplay. What's more a real life boxer doesn't experience approximations of the reality of combat, he experiences reality in full force. Video games currently can't actually simulate the sensation of a literal punch so they use some artistic licence instead

>>376108430
Its not a secret that MH is a bad and boring game that only dumb nips and weebs play.

>>376112948
But you can, look at Mount and Blade.
>>376112961
This thread is about weight, and how we dispel the myth of weight.
>>376112963
Not everyone, I know I don't.

>>376112964
Post a webm of it then, not saying i don't believe you, I just can't really look for the trailer right now. But in my opinion the attacks look pathetic, just making the visual effect larger would help a lot

>>376112971
No, only one thing that makes weight, and that is gameplay mechanic, it translates directly onto damage and how fast you kill.

Also, fuck you I will not read Kotaku.
>>376113025
So full stop, it's all about the animation.

But fuck that, every hit stuns just means the game is slowed down.

File: the_taking_of_christ[1].jpg (75KB, 800x615px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 800x615px

>>376112659
you don't have to swing like IRL, art is about glorification, in all games with teleporting anime protagonists and the like you GLORIFY the action by EXAGGERATION, which is not to say you just completely ignore the basic principles, because that's what hacks and amateurs do

This Caravaggio painting has unrealistic and probably even impossible lighting, but that doesn't mean that he's bad at light, on the contrary he's very very good at it

File: 1410492156555.png (751KB, 486x1103px) Image search: [Google]

751KB, 486x1103px

>>376113029

>>376113059
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URLdBq3_cHM

At 1:08.

>>376112778
A hit stun isn't slowing the world down, it a stagger.

>At 1:00
>At 4:20
Are prime examples of this in real life.

>>376112873
A punch still isn't something you just shrug off, even if it looks like it did no damage. The video posted show Trevor slowing down despite most of Mike punches not being good hits.

>>376113109
Animation in action games is inseparable from gameplay.

>>376113112
DURR DURR DURR WE WANT WEIGHT BUT WE DO NOT WANT SHIT TO BE REALISTIC

Fuck you and fuck your weight.

You do not want weight, you want animation that you like.

>>376111041
>But they don't?
Mate, Ninja Gaiden is all about timing your attacks. There might not be a huge hitstun, but charging up UTs and knowing when to stop combos is a big part of the gameplay.

File: Dabilahro.jpg (43KB, 640x345px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 640x345px

>>376111041
>But they don't
Confirmed for not even playing the games. Fuck off retard.

Let me pitch you a crazy idea:
Why can't one like both?

Lmoa all your aspies talking about hit stun and not mentioning how 2d fighters have had this feeture for years.

>>376113128
>repeating the same pattern of actions for 10-20 minutes.
Shelve your tism and stop supporting bad games.

>>376113169
Well, a hit stun in DD actually slows down the game each time you hit something.

See >>376110359

>>376113223
>You do not want weight, you want animation that you like.
Yes. An animation with weight.

>>376113163
>first hit does nothing
>2nd staggers
>3rd seems to do nothing as well
Can't say I like this either but whatever

>>376113223
Imagine all the productive things you could be doing right now instead of this. You could even be playing a video game! Yet you insist on shitposting poorly. Why?

>>376113238
>>376113252
That's not weight either, it's just slow weapons.

In fact, you can jump cancel how slow you slash in that game.

>>376113223
>i know better than professional animators
in a better world you would be in the stocks right now

>>376113301
So if you want weight, you have to study reality.
>>376113316
I'm actually going to play some STALKER later for some delicious bullet physics, anon.

>>376113345
>slow weapons
The Dabilahro had tonnes of weight you stupid motherfucker. Same with every big weapon in that game. Smaller weapons had less because they're smaller, much like MH's dual blades. Actually play the games before spewing obvious bullshit.

>>376113309
Hit stun on every hit is retarded.
>>376113350
Fuck every animators in the ass.

>>376113309

Probably functions the same way in dark souls with regards to poise and stagger limits.

That said yeah it needs to improve its attack animations and feedback

For any of you who don't understand how animation is linked to a game feeling weighty, please read this:
http://art-eater.com/2010/07/test-1-darkstalkers/

>>376113429
fuck off back to russia

File: stickyfriction part1.png (678KB, 800x10000px) Image search: [Google]

678KB, 800x10000px

>>376113109
>No, only one thing that makes weight, and that is gameplay mechanic, it translates directly onto damage and how fast you kill.
Imagine Dark Souls without any flinching or pain animations. Imagine Mount and Blade but when enemies died, they turned into a T-pose instead of falling over. No, let's simplify it further since it's all about mechanics: Imagine a fighting game with no sprites or visible characters, no sound effects, only collections of hitboxes.

Here we go, open wide.

>>376113405
I actually play Ninja Gaiden, and no it's just a matter of slow weapons.

The game is balanced around fast weapon, polearm, standard weapon and slow weapon.

It has jack to do with actual weight.

File: 1485796383125.gif (730KB, 245x206px) Image search: [Google]

730KB, 245x206px

Figures that the weebs would come up with excuses to defend their new waifushit game. Feedback is an important element in game design if you want the player to enjoy your game. Whether it be weighty animations, flashy effects when hitting enemies or just sound effects for the character's attacks, you gotta give the player incentive to come back for more. It just so happens that the team behind Monster Hunter excels in all those areas, which is why it's always brought up in arguments such as these.

>>376113490
Dude, graphics are an important part of game.

But it ain't gameplay.

File: stickyfriction part2.png (858KB, 800x10000px) Image search: [Google]

858KB, 800x10000px

>>376113490

>>376113440
If you absolutely hate reading, here's a GDC talk given by Skullgirls' lead animator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw0h9WmBlsw

File: etrh.gif (1MB, 450x330px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 450x330px

In Third Strike, when you hit someone theres a big flash of pixel sparks, a satisfying THWACK, and the enemy sprite has a pretty awesome reaction to being hit. It's really well done.

In Kingdom Hearts 2, it did something similar. Hitting an enemy results in a flash of sparks depending on your keyblade, there's a loud THWACK, and the enemy responds appropriately to getting hit by a giant key.

Now compare to Kingdom Hearts BBS, where hitting an enemy results in few particles, theres a small, compressed, not-very-loud sound, and sometimes THE ENEMYS DONT EVEN REACT TO BEING HIT.


This stuff does make a huge difference. If you don't get it right the whole game is fucked up.

>>376113575
Yep, just like in this vid: >>376108430

All those nice feedbacks.

>>376113429
>Hit stun on every hit is retarded.
Well yeah but the game is still lacking any good way to show that you are actually dealing damage, yeah it's in-dev footage so I don't expect miracles but if you are making a souls clone then showing that your attacks actually do something is important, as I said, better visual effect alone would help a lot

>>376113291
You've never played DD have you? The pawn grabbing a goblin isn't what slows time down. It to take your attention off of the combat, and force it on more important things.

>I've pined down an enemy, forget the others and focus on this one.
A mage shouting "Tis weak to fire" does the same thing, even if the spell hasn't been cast yet. Both of these can happen with out the slow down time bit.

>>376113503
>they're not classified by weight therefore they have no weight
No, you didn't play it, or you have some sort of nerve damage. They absolutely feel weighty. To reiterate, fuck off retard.

File: stickyfriction part3.png (313KB, 800x5415px) Image search: [Google]

313KB, 800x5415px

>>376113581
"Graphics aren't gameplay"
What about pictionary? What about games set in dark places where you have to use a flashlight to see where you're going? What about multiplayer games where spotting soldiers dressed in camouflage is a crucial aspect? What about games with smoke grenades?

>>376113594
Go shove that crap into your ass.

Skullgrils is a cartoony ass game without weight.

You guys are literally arguing to someone that thinks that ANIMATIONS doesn't matter in an action game.

Just give up and let the thread die, goddamn.

>>376113595
Or compare it to something like Skyrim where there is no hitsparks and no hitstun, it feels terrible.

God I hate the combat in Skyrim

>>376113683
I play it fine, and no, the polearm is just as fast as the sword, or even faster, despite the polearm being a weightier weapon.
>>376113670
>You've never played DD have you?
I play it and the game slows down each time you hit something.

Notice how if you swing freely, your swing speed is actually faster?

File: image.jpg (30KB, 298x249px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 298x249px

>>376113697

>>376113697
I'm still here bud.

You fags cannot destroy me.

your puny graphics cannot beat REAL PHYSICS.

>>376113860
Why not the two?

>>376113765
Punch the air, see how much fast you can pull your arm back. Now punch an object, see how much slower it is. Even the real life video you posted shows this.

File: Dark-Souls-You-Died-T-Shirt.jpg (57KB, 1000x961px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 1000x961px

>>376112604
It was an extremely effective counterpoint to the implied assertion that skill plateaus exist and are acceptable at any level. You need to become more familiar with the way actual discussions are carried out here when we're not just shitposting.

To Whit: These thread are in effect about the Dark Souls franchise, which a lot of anons jumped on the hype train of, and who are now slowly realizing that the core mechanics of the series are limited, unsatisfying, and ultimately do present a skill plateau to the advanced player for anything other than a test of "endurance" (read. RNG patience).
Now what was once hyped on /v/ as a virtue is now realised as a defect. Dark Souls is not going to have the meta endgames of classic action titles. You won't still be playing it in 10 years.

>>376113860
skyrim has REAL PHYSICS

Kingdom Hearts 2 doesnt

which one has better combat?

>>376107168
Because "weight" is very important in certain types of games, like in Silent Hill. You're supposed to feel like a regular human being at a¨disadvantage, thus, your attacks are slow and clunky.

The combat in Dark Souls is supposed to be skill-testing and strategic, so a more weighty combat system works beautifully for this: Every Attack Counts.

Tl;dr, It's a good combat system that enables certain types of gameplay.

>>376113920
I actually can pull my arm back faster if I punch the object, because the counter-force throws my arm back.

No, hitting shit does not make the world slow down.

>>376113765
It's not just about speed you shithead, it's about the weight of the entire animation, including wind-up, impact, follow-through, the character's body swinging it, etc.

Your argument is basically "it's either Monster Hunter or it's weightless."

>>376113951
Kingdom hearts 2 probably.

Skyrim is pretty shit in combat.

>>376114070
No, the game effectively slows down when your hit connects.

The animation being slow is another thing, but because of that slow down, you kill shit faster in DaS1.
>>376113932
>DaS1
>RNG patience
What? It's a twitch game.

File: Gothic_landscape_1600x1200.jpg (1MB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1600x1200px

>>376110220
Its possible to have tank controls AND floaty combat.

>>376113639
>the same guy linking to his post to prove people wrong
Kek

I love it when I play souls games and my character feels nothing when either hitting through an enemy or air

Feels really great, amazing quality and gameplay.

>>376113575
Animations are there simply to represent hitboxes and frames. It doesn't matter if the game is flashy if it doesn't represent what's actually going on. Just another reason why monhun is shit.

>>376113639
>attacks are well animated and convey a good sense of weight in both the hunter and the monster
>flashy water element effects when hitting the monster with weapon make it satisfying
>good sound effects for the hunter's attacks
>small touches like loud footstep noises and screen shakes convey the sheer mass of the monster to those around it
>monster isn't just a clueless damage sponge and actually flinches when dealt enough attacks
The only things missing that could have improved that video were the sound effects when breaking the monster's face and cutting its tail. Those are deliciously satisfying to hear.

File: Nuclear_Throne_Jungle_Bandit_idle.gif (2KB, 72x72px) Image search: [Google]

2KB, 72x72px

>>376112496
Hit stop is one thing.
Another is when you manage to get Impact Wrists, a piercing/aoe weapon, and manage to clear the entire screen of enemies with one attack. And you just get all these shakes and hitstops, as response to how good it is.

>>376112567
>it's all about how you calculate the swing speed, and the fact your speed affects your damage and you kill.
Far less important than that properly done attacks will in 90% of cases kill fooder, and you are forced to obey your momentum.
No real dodging also makes it even more forced, alongside of missile like the horses are.

>>376112047
>mentions that Toukiden weapons have special abilities and unique moves
>say that God Eater weapons are all the same because they don't
Is he retarded?

>>376113932
But skill plateaus exist. You're showing some unrelated Mario game as a fucking counterpoint to games of all other genres existing. It's logically wrong to show that something doesn't exist by showing that you can't find it under your sofa.

The funny part is also that you're implying skill plateaus don't exist simply because they are harder to reach.

>>376114708
>monster isn't just a clueless damage sponge and actually flinches when dealt enough attacks
Yep, that takes 10 minutes.

Sure it is not clueless damage sponge.

>>376113289
That retarded logic apply to every action games and every fighting games.

>>376115670
Yes and there are lots of shit games among those too.

>>376115417
>if it doesn't die in one hit or one minute it's just a damage sponge
Alright, anon.

>>376107231
That's why God of War always shat on DMC, because the attacks have weight to them.

>>376116346
What are you smoking?

>>376107168
Are you mad that people are shitting on your meme pseudo-Souls game with its derivative bottom-of-the-barrel generic-anime artstyle?

>>376107529
It fucking is though. Show me fast paced souls combat.

>>376107529
dark souls combat wasn't 'fast' until dark souls 3 came out and was basically bloodborne with a dark souls skin

>>376116887
Know your place pleb.

>>376107168
It's been important since the fucking snes. Even anime shenanigan games like dmc put focus on good weight

Game feel truly is the mise-en-scène of video games.

Why are /v/irgins so triggered by people recognising bad game design?

>>376118665
Lonely weebs who think waifushit has more value than gameplay

>>376108165
>None of this is vitally important to make a good game
Yakuza 6 proves you wrong almost immediately.

>>376113692

>I don't like kotaku waaaah
>I don't like skullgirls waaah

Go shove yourself up your own ass, if you can even go any deeper. Guy is showing your very cool stuff that explains a lot in depth, but you are so fiercely fucking stubborn to stay in your own bubble world that you refuse to learn fucking anything.

Go ahead and browse and consume only 4chan hivemind approved crap, see how far you get in life, you dumb piece of shit.

Soulsfags ruined the action game genre. Now every action game has to be "soulslike".

>>376108810
>the naked waifu
in deed this is anime souls

>>376109330
Literally only retards claw

It means something but like all /v/ terms it will start being used as a catch all general statement and will lose all meaning soon.

>>376107258
Stop liking things that I don't like