Is this really better than Persona?

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>>376047118
yes

Probably

Can you repeat the question?

>>376047118
I don't know

Fuck thor

>>376047118
Same gameplay but harder
Older game so also clunkier
More oppressive atmosphere compared to the happy go lucky persona
It's completely subjective.

YOUR NOT THE BOSS OF ME NOW
YOUR NOT THE BOSS OF ME NOW

>>376047118
you should play it and find out if you like it my dude

Not really. P5 BTFO it in everything but difficulty. Doesn't mean it isn't worth a playthrough though.

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>>376047118
I like it more, but you might not. Give it a shot if you want.

>>376047118
yes

Mainline and Persona are better at different things

Mainline: Really good atmosphere, stories about fighting gods and shit, fun NPCs to talk to, etc

Also it's harder I guess, if you care. Press Turn system is fun

Persona: More fleshed out characters, stories are a bit more down to earth. Focused much more on characters driving the plot. Much lighter tone.

Basically, if you don't give a damn about story, mainline SMT is probably more enjoyable. If you do care, Persona might be.

Or you can enjoy both and celebrate each ones individual strengths.

>>376047118
Yes, but it's not hard to be better than the last three Persona games.

No, not in the slightest. Mainline SMT is decades behind persona in terms of game design.

They're all the same except for some reason its fashionable to pretend the mainline games are difficult.
I love this series and these arguments have never made sense to me.

>>376047118
it's boring and shitty. fags pretend to like it to posture

Mainline: Solid atmosphere, actual fucking gameplay, less waifuism and more weird bullshit stories

Persona: waifus all over, sometimes better stories, usually better OSTs

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I went and beat Nocturne before I started P5.
I enjoy persona games much more, but I guess I feel a bigger sense of satisfaction after overcoming an SMT game.

In some of the P5 dungeons I'd come across a puzzle or two where the answer is just told to you and I'm laughing, start feeling nostalgic for the old Nocturne puzzle dungeons. Then I remember those fucking floors in Kagetsuchi tower and the light temple where you're literally just jumping into teleporters randomly until you hit the right path. The puzzle equivalent to banging your head against the wall for three hours at a time.

>>376049480
They are harder than your standard JRPGs. You actually have to use buffs/debuffs, take advantage of weakness, and be mindful of resistances. Most of that you can just ignore in most RPGs.

But once you play any of them, the others become much easier. Nocturne was a lot of peoples first, so they got their ass kicked by Matador. Anyone going into that fight having already played any other SMT game (even a really easy one like P3) will not struggle nearly as much.

>>376047118
Half the game is not VN bullshit
So yea it is better

>>376047540
haha epic meme!

Any game that is 90% gameplay is better than persona

>>376049304
Tower of Kagutsuchi had more thought put into it than the entirety of P5 dungeons.

>>376049921
The VN bullshit is fun though. It breaks up the monotony of constant random battles.

Better than 2IS, 3, 4, and 5. On par with 1. Not as good as 2EP.

>>376050191
EP is the bad one though.
People who have never played the 2 games always make this slip up in their rankings. It gives you away every single time. Nobody who has played P2 would rank EP above IS.

Press Turn > One More

>>376050406
EP is fun by being actually challenging
IS is kinda brain dead easy, but I do love the Fuher.

>>376050071
Maybe.
But for the case of P3 and P4 the Slinks were really really really fucking weak. Ill give P5 one thing, the VN stuff is alot more intresting. No good Tora is my husbando

Which is why its the only nu-persona game I like.

>>376047118
Both are enjoyable for different reason. But if I had to pick it would be Nocturne. Find it more fun talking to demons and punching stuff in the face.

>>376049602
>better OST

Subjective. I prefer mainline's OST over Persona

>>376050465
>Playing Soul Hackers
>Simple Battle system
>Still totally works

I kinda want another SMT that has neither SJ, Press turn or One more mechanics.

>>376047118
I fucking love it

>>376050052
How?

I like how solving some of the puzzle and mazes in nocturne dungeons were a lot more subtle than when P5 where everything was in your face and characters spoiled shit for you

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>>376050660
Play the older SMT games. SMT I is rather crpytic at times though. SMT II just has that bullshit find body parts segment but other then that are great,

Makes kicking this guys ass all the better

>>376050615
I think that Persona has more stand out tracks but in terms of consistency the rest of MegaTen wins out.

>>376050863
>Stephen
>Crippled
Did you miss the part where he stands up?

Why do fans of both mainline and persona get so defensive? A good game is a good game.

Dungeons are actually bearable and have a shred of fun and challenge to them. Nocturne isn't the best to start, though.

>>376047118
The difficulty of mainline is exaggerated by retards and shitposters.

P4 and 5 - Some of the best JRPGs, ever. Gameplay is fast. P5 is the only JRPG I've played that actually has interesting dungeons that are more than boring ass hallways.

P3 - Complete shit

P1 and 2 - Good stories, better to watch a LP or something thanks to monumentally shitty gameplay

Most of SMT mainline: Pretty bland stories and characters, but fun gameplay and occasionally fun dialogue.

>>376051096
Stupid "hardcore" SMT fans that are angry over Persona's popularity. Obviously, games with more compelling characters and stories are gone go over better with the masses

>>376051172
It's bizarre that people can still say mainline is difficult with a straight face after 4 and Final.

>>376051027
Persona's vocals OST stand out much better than the rest of MegaTen's more instrumental OST

Nocturne has the best battle themes though

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>>376050863
>Play the older SMT games.

Love how everyone says play the older SMTs, yet always seems to forget KMT exists. MT2 is just as worth playing as SMT1 & 2. MT1 is honestly trash though.

>>376051172
Nocturne is objectively less easier to exploit than Persona 5

Why do people pretend otherwise?

>>376051330
Apocolypse's difficulty on Apocalypse is satisfying, and should have been default.

Maybe give some % of an escape chance though.

>>376051330
IV is braindead easy after Minotaur and Medusa, but IV:A's retains challenging well enough on Apocalypse difficulty

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>>376047272

>>376051343
agreed.

>>376051283
Preferring P4 over P3 is one thing, but thinking P4 is one of the best RPGs ever and P3 is complete shit is one of the most contrarian things I've ever heard

>>376051449
*drains boss mp*
*fully heals party*

>>376051464
>Apocalypse mode
>Miss Megami Tensei
and no buffing does jack shit

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Mot was a well designed boss fight

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>>376051449
>Nocturne is objectively less easier to exploit than Persona 5
*rings bell*

>>376051878
>Not putting points in Agility
Thats your own damn fault.

>>376051330
Final is a lot harder than any of the previous mainline SMTs.

>>376051283
>P4 and 5 - Some of the best JRPGs, ever. Gameplay is fast. P5 is the only JRPG I've played that actually has interesting dungeons that are more than boring ass hallways.

Maybe because they actually started designing the dungeons instead of using a randomizer and projecting profoundity and social themes in an overbloated social life simulator, which makes P3 and 4 absolutely unbearable games.

>>376051813
Thinking P3 is better than P4 is contrarian to me.

I just finished P3 several days ago and was entirely disappointed by it.

The story was generic as hell as well as had fucking awful pacing. Only like three s links stood out as being notable, and the only character that I felt had a proper arc was Aigis.

P4 has better writing and pacing, characters have much more going on with them, and all but a few s links stood out.

The only thing I think P3 did better was the final boss music.

>>376051813
this

>>376051343
The biggest thing Nocturne has going for it is that there are like four standard battle themes. Most Persona games have only one.

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>>376051982
Apocalypse also has the best gameplay thus far, but don't tell anyone. We're still pretending to hate it.

>>376051926
it's a fucking constant chance to miss independent from stats and buffs you dumb nigger

>>376051343
>Nocturne has the best battle themes though
What an awful opinion when Digital Devil Saga exists, probably the best battle themes for any RPG period.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o08Ir0Mf_qg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjOVPirMKXo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJf7jnRQsdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4PCOAJ80lo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAm6BQvarEg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_MkGumP-qM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0IDL5XWQVo

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>>376051884
Mot literally did nothing wrong. He understood how the game was played. Sometimes he even gives you a fair shake. You can't blame him for using his tools. You would do the exact same thing if you could.

>>376052071
>Junpei
>no proper arc
I can see where you're coming from with the rest of it though

>>376052167
Nocturne's pump me more. IV/Apocalypse and DDS are also pretty god-tier of course. And there's also Raidou

>>376052192
Hmm, yeah, I'll give you that

Junpei definitely matured over the course of the game.

One thing that made me realize how little characters actually developed is Junpei says to Fuuka "you've grown so much" and I'm sitting here like

I don't think I've seen her do anything at all aside from just search for shadows

>>376051283
>P5 is the only JRPG I've played that actually has interesting dungeons that are more than boring ass hallways.

DDS1 and Nocturne also have great dungeons.

P5 is better I think because of the way enemy encounters are handled. Random encounters get really tiresome in games that aren't grid based dungeon crawlers.

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>>376051884
15 years later and I still don't know the intended method to beat this guy without hoping you get lucky.

>>376052167
They're good. Calling them the best is quite the exaggeration though.

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>>376051813
daily reminder that the vocals from nocturne were made by a text to speech program

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAaHDL3352c

Strange Journey has the worst music

Just a bunch of boring ass chanting

>>376052374
Pretty much, yeah

Not having random encounters improves a game by a lot for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIjVvnO5lgM

When does Persona 5 get good? I got to Futaba's palace and feel like dropping it since the only fun I've really had was the first two palaces and hanging with Yusuke, everyone seems to have the game click with them a lot earlier.

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>>376052383
It's a metaphor for life. There's no real strategy to it, just pure luck. Nocturne may be the deepest game ever created.

>>376052415
SHI
NO
BU

>>376052479
The SJ ost grew on me and now I really like it, but I think it doesn't fit the game setting at all. It would've sounded better in some cool Conan-esque Sword & Sorcery RPG.

>>376052515
Wait until you finish the casino and the game's plot start going pantsu on head retarded.

>>376052350
I'll give you that. Fuuka grows very little, which is bizarre when it's said that she's supposed to have grown enough to be one of the most powerful Persona users in one of the spin offs.

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>>376052394
Definitely the best MegaTen battle themes at least.
>When the guitar kicks in during Big Battle

>>376052383
I think the intended method is to debuff him so he waste one of his Beast Eye turn casting Dekunda

>>376052683
I think the contrary, it gives a bit of depth to the ambience in the game, making it seem like you're entering something incredibly ancient, ruled by forces way beyond your control.

>>376052154
>Constant chance to miss independent of stats and buffs
It's not THAT high, if you consistently miss it's probably due to crap Agility. Seriously being able to account for that adds to the fun.

>>376052683
>>376052938
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuzvQW_gxkk
HEE HO HEE HO HEE HO

>>376051445
I am playing MT 1 right now its a legit dungeon crawler not as fucking cryptic as SMT 1. Can't wait for MT2

Reason why I don't shill it as much is that it is not as refreced as SMT 1 or 2. Shame


>>376051080
Shit is hype but he has always been in a wheelchair so its just a joke

>>376052383
Not even a hard fight on hard.

>>376052938
>making it seem like you're entering something incredibly ancient

And then you enter a super market. It might've worked if you were actually exploring a hellish dungeon, but the sectors were intentionally either too corny or lacked the graphical resources to convey what they were trying to be (2nd dungeon tried to be a red light district but that was pretty hard to see).

>>376051845
>>376051897
>spam all out attacks
>never have any consequences for missing attacks
>everybody in your team can switch members
>navigator buffs
>don't have to worry about alignments since members can slap that shit out of you
>members can save you from being hama'd or Mudo'd
>baton passing for improving stats and increasing attack damage
>being able to grind 70k for free from the reaper on certain days and hit level 90's in 30 mins
>being able to leave fights guaranteed zero cost
>1 turn to switch a member in rather than 2 in nocturne
>guaranteed to recruit a demon when you have it downed and it's not overlevel

Don't kid yourself, I've probably missed other shit off my head but it's way easier to cheese on this shit

>>376052683
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owcjmHJ2Y7k

I fucking love this song, I don't care if it doesn't fit a mood or shit. It's amazing.

>>376049998
Fuck you, it's not a meme it's a celebration of the greatest show ever broadcast on television. I hope Frankie M fucks your dog you little shit

>>376053168
Mot is absolutely a hard fight your first time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIjVvnO5lgM

The suits they wear in SJ are fucking dumb looking

Lego man lookin motherfuckers

>>376053227
Yeah, that's a wonderful battle theme. Definitely my favorite song in the entire ost.

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>>376052735
>>376052350
Fuuka does change significantly, but it's a very internal and personal change.

Fuuka herself isn't a loud person, she doesn't call attention to herself, so you have to pay close attention to her to understand how she has changed.

>>376053052
>not as fucking cryptic as SMT 1
Oh boy. I hope you've got a guide handy for later on. You will not legit beat the game without one famalan, trust me. And wait til you get to that hallway of fire area. Goddamn. Fuck that game.

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Why does estoma never work in this game?

I'm higher level than the demons I'm fighting

>>376052383
>>376051884
I honestly never understood the Mot meme. I got him on my first run of the game,
and never had any issues.
Then again I was a retard my first run way back when and had my demi-fiend specialized in Zio moves, so maybe that helped...

>>376053172
For me, it worked even in the supermarket, since it looked fantastically large, enormous for a DS game. Also, the supermarket being an apocalyptic setting fits the game's themes.

>>376053415
It's the average level of your party, not just you

>>376053351
the demonica suit is unironically badass af imo. I was lit af when I found that you could buy demonica armor in SMT4.

>>376053351
I like the demonicas except for the smile

The demonicas would have been amazing other than that. Demonee-ho is still best demon.

>>376053495
if he feels like it, he can murder you as soon as he gets a single turn

>>376053351
You motherfucker better watch some 50s scifi before opening your damn mouth about Demonicas.

>>376053338
I am sure players on their first time on the game are doing a low level run in which they mostly only fight essential boss fights. I beat Mot my first try handily. It is just buff, debuff, and exploit his weakness which is electricity and it happens to be one of the demons in the building had an electric attack so there was no reason to exploit his weakness for more half turns.

>>376053586
bitch I love me some retro sci-fi but those helmets are dumb as hell

>>376053556
yeah, demonee-ho is pretty dope

>>376053495
it's just luck. I've had Mot kill me in a single round because he kept abusing the press turn gen spell and didn't give me a chance to have another go.

>>376053414
>>376053052
NES or SNES?

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>>376053578
>Beast Eye
>Makakaja
>Makakaja
>Makakaja
>Megidola

>>376053793
KMT, SNES

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>>376053414
Just got to this part of infini tower w/o a guide.

FUCK the sea of flames holy shit. It's not really cryptic though and all the npcs tell me what I need to beat the boss. I just do what I do in every dungeon crawler like in sj and sh, just explore every tile until something happens.

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>>376053551
I loved the reveal

>Black Samurai
>Wearing a Black Demonica

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>Playing Nocturne for the first time and know about the dreaded Matador
>Wandering around the underground, grinding, thinking I'll get a message first before I encounter him
>I dont and get instantly thrown into battle
>Get absolutely fucking destroyed

Guess Im a member of the club now

>Grind for a bit longer and come back
>Went full STR and got Archangel to buff my attack
>Miss a few times but I beat him in 6 punches

I did it lads!

>>376053793
KMT is a remake of the Megami Tensai games for the NES, upgraded to the SNES with both games in one.

Worth to play I like MT 1 alot but the atmopshere in SMT 1 or 2 can not be beat and MT 1 is a pure dungeon crawler which is cool. but MT 2 is more like SMT 2

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>>376047118
yes

The worst part of the Persona series are the dungeons.

SMT is just dungeons.

Tried playing it again actually just an hour ago
>That world map
>Your a polygon talking to other polygons
Nah fuck this and I couldnt find the park because everything looks like a muddy mess

To old 4 me.

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>>376053987
Matador is a meme, the real casual filter lies ahead.

>>376050863
I haven't even looked into Final/Apocolypse yet, but is the MC a woman?

>>376047118

Much better.

>>376053987
I forgot, don't they give you a warning saying that you feel a powerful presence up ahead?

I guess it's pretty shocking it happens in the middle of the hallway

>>376053987
Get Sukukaja

First time through I fuse a Bicorn and go through him quite well

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It's hard to not be better than Persona

>>376054094
Dude, that's the style. Just wander around to the fucking park. You can find it in less than 5 minutes.

once i get my taxes money im going to buy all the smt games on the store. i still need to beat 4 fuck

>>376054129
Nope it's a 15 year old edgy man.

>>376054089
Yea but the dungeons are actually handcrafted/good in SMT unlike P3 or P4

>>376054094
Underage please go. If a PS2 game is to old for you then wow

>>376054129
No. Final's story is not shit despite what people tell you, what they mean to say is how the cast reacts to it is shit. And it has no choice. BUT the gameplay is the bomb and the engame content (Twisted toyko/Fiend hunting and the DLC bosses) are great.

If SMTV has the gameplay of IV:A and how the compendium worked in IV/Final, and the ailment system from P5 and good writing then it will be hands down the best JRPG of all time.

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>>376054089
>The worst part of the Persona series are the dungeons.
None of SMT's dungeons are like pic related though.

>>376054151
*The Candelabrum of Sovereignty is flickering wildly*

>die 6 times to matador before I get lucky and he doesnt dekunda on his second phase
>tfw get to thor
hardmode was a mostake

>>376054329
Yeah thats it, now I remember.

>>376054089
Dungeons in Persona are bad because they're not the main focus of the game, so they're poorly designed.

Since dungeons are the whole point of SMT they have a lot more thought put into them.

>>376054171
t. hasn't played P5

>>376054121
>>376054332
Like poetry

>>376054308
>No. Final's story is not shit despite what people tell you,
I stopped reading there for fear of spoilers, so apologies if you answered that, but I was asking that question quite literally. That fanart of him looked like he had A-cup tits.

>>376054332
Playing Hardmode right now, fucking I kicked Matador's ass first try but shit was tense as fuck

I made the choice to go in for the lunge when it was just me and one other demon after he charged and got a crit killing his punkass.

Nocturne is great

>>376054319
That actually looks just like the sewer where you meet the Matador in Nocturne.

Wanted to try out Nocturne

Doesn't really emulate well on my toaster of a PC

I suppose I could buy it on my PS3, but if I'm gonna fork over cash, I figure I might as well just get SMTIV

>>376054398
But I beat it last week

>>376054308
in b4 SMT5 uses demon co-op instead of turn press <:^)

>>376054308
>Ailments
You're talking about Technicals? yeah that was cool, but I never felt like I needed em.

I kinda miss alignments, maybe Not done like Strange Journey, but Soul hackers would be cool, kinda annoys me you can have Lucifer in the same party as Metatron in some games.

>>376054502
It was pretty good wasn't it?

>>376054389
>so they're poorly designed.
They are not poorly designed, they're barely designed at all! In P3 and P4 the dungeons are fucking random garbage, and the randomization isn't even decent, making the games nigh unplayable for me. And I thoroughly enjoy Mystery Dungeon games.

>>376054458
Thats what I like about Nocturne. It has many bullshit moments that will fuck you over. But you learn to adapt and get better (even using the means of cheesing). And once you finally overcome that boss you feel amazing.

>>376054475
Underpass of Ginza isn't procedural generated trash without branching routes though whereas Tartarus and the TV World are and they're both agonizing to go through.
P5 actually has some good dungeons though like the Casino and the Museum.

Is Nocturne worth it? I've played IV and the first few hours of IV: Apocalypse. Everyone said Minotaur and Medusa were ball busting hard in IV but I thought they were easy. Same with King Frost in Apocalypse. Those games aren't really a challenge like how some people make them out to be.

Apparently, Nocturne will push your shit in though.

>Nanashi became a hunter cadet the same year Flynn was born
>a year later Nanashi becomes a hunter at the age of 15, Flynn becomes a samurai at the age of 18

So does time flow differently in Mikado or what? I guess it would explain why they have a whole history there already with Aquila being a distant memory of the past whereas it's been only a few years for Skins and Fujiwara since they parted ways with Akira.

>>376054332
Fucking Ikebukuro

>Thor's gauntlet
>Dante
>Daisoujou

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>>376054754
/ourguy/ makes Dante pretty easy though.

>>376054389
Bruh, there is no excuse for the shitshow that is Tartarus in P3

That shit was fucking AWFUL.

P4 manages to improve it by making them not tedious as hell, but it's still really boring.

P5 has much more memorable dungeons.

>>376054718
Nocturne is easier than either game unless you get fucked by the RNG like getting hit with a mudo / hama spell during an enemy ambush. Buff / debuff spells will turn nearly every encounter into a joke and most bosses don't have the skills to react to those kind of spells.

>>376054739
Play the game. They go over this shit like a dozen times in Apoc to make absolutely sure everyone understands it no matter how slow they are.

>>376054739
Didn't you play IV? The time dilation is 75:1 or something. One day in Tokyo is 75 in Mikado.

>>376053174
Why does no one ever fix the "alignment" typo in this pasta? The worst part is that I agree with it but fuck that typo triggers my autism.

>>376054718
If you've played other SMT games, you need to play IV or IV:A on their hardest difficulties.

Normal is for people who havn't played SMTs before and don't know how to fuse and battle optimally.

>>376054873
>Buff / debuff spells will turn nearly every encounter into a joke and most bosses don't have the skills to react to those kind of spells.
Almost every boss uses Dekunda.

>>376054754
For dante to appear do you have to pass the first Kalpa? On hard that shit is fucking impossible but the overworld demons are not as hard.

>>376054718
Try IV:A on the hardest difficulty, it's pretty challenging, though not ball busting hard. Some of the DLC bosses are also fun

Nocturne's early game is quite hard because of the random encounters, but once you get some reliable heal and mana regen it's smooth. Bosses are gimmicky as hell though

>>376054873
>Buff / debuff spells will turn nearly every encounter into a joke

>Dekaja's you

>>376054886
I played SMT4 once when it came out but forgot most of the little details, and I was casually browsing through the Apocalypse lore dlc and had forgotten all of this this so it was a bit of a shock.

>>376054607
The combat is way better than 3&4 but I still don't like One More compared to press turn.

The dungeons would have been better if they didn't handhold you all the time and have someone explain the puzzles.

Story is still pretty predictable but I liked how it was a flashback most of the time. The confidants were good because they tied into gameplay besides just bonus exp but most of them still don't factor into the overall story.

I give it a 6/10.

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>>376055039
Shit forgot pic

Hardest fiend if you was unprepared

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>>376054739
Yeah, time flows differently. Masakado is slowing down the flow of time in Tokyo. So even though it's been 25 years since the nukes dropped in Toyko, outside 1492 years have passed.

>>376054987
No. He will always appear after you beat Thor

>>376054739
Have you not played IV? You should really read through the files they give you, those hand you a ton of information that was only ever alluded to and implied in the previous game on a silver platter. Time under Masakado's dome is severely slowed down, in Tokyo it's barely been 25 years but in the outside world over 1500 years have already passed. Shit normalizes when the hole gets blown into the dome eventually.

>>376054976
No they don't. More than half of them don't have it and those that do might or might not use it. I've fought against Lucifer with a full set of Debilitate for several rounds before he got rid of it. In SMT4A some bosses will prioritize debuffing over everything else.

should I play strange journey or nocturne first

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>>376055038
>Bosses are gimmicky as hell though
Remdiner no one beat this guy without a guide.

>>376055148
Wouldnt it be more than that? They took a while to get upto Mikado before the angles told them to go back down.

>>376055205
nocturne, SJs getting a remaster soon.

>>376055154
>After
Oh wow I thought it was before thanks

>>376055239
A couple lost souls straight up tell you his gimmick. Just gotta actually talk to NPCs and pay some attention anon.
You could also just straight up overpower him without knowing about his gimmick at all if you happen to be slightly overleveled which is likely enough if you did any Kalpas.

>>376055263
The remaster is having Doi redesigns, a new character that doesn't fit at all and very probably streamlining. I expect an "original" mode with just better graphics and sound, but it's probably better to play the original.

>>376055257
Yeah, but remember there were people living in Mikado before the people of Toyko got there. The people that were in the pods were living in Mikado already.

>>376052515
The palace design starts to slip after the first two and never recovers.

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Leave Persona to me

>>376055537
But the Casino one is good, although I do agree that the Castle and Museum were the most fun to go through.

>>376055469
>Original mode

There won't be an original mode, like P4G having Marie hamfisted in without an option to take her out.

>>376055594
I really hope Atlus learned from SMTIV:A

I want to beat Matador, but I hate grinding for levels, and find it to be the worst thing in all of video games. Wat do?

>>376055239
Is that the guy that made copies of himself? Anyway I didn't need to use a guide to beat any of the bosses in Nocturne.

>>376055469
>The remaster is having Doi redesigns
Wrong. The red sprite crew is being redesigned by fucking interns for some reason but the new demon(S) amon and alex are Doi.

The new route wont fuck over the og routes,

Alex does not fit all because she is not wearing a demonica, but her gear is still sceince fiction just a different kind (that goofy as fuck laser pistol) I don't think she will be a moeblob like Asahi or toki since she is an adult.

>>376055239
I did because of Bright Might.

>>376055734
fuse demons

>>376055734
>grinding for matador

>>376055734
If you're grinding in any MegaTen game you're doing something wrong, although getting to the level you need to fuse an Uzume makes that fight a lot easier.

>>376055710
Well, Odin Sphere and all the EO have "original modes".

>>376055594
Yukiko, what the fuck are you doing? You realize you're already a Persona character, right?

>>376055734
You get buffs?
If you want to grind a bit (not that much), get a Nozuchi

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>>376055713
Me too, Nozomi is fucking hot.

>>376055734
What level are you on? Around 14-15 you can tinker around and fuse or recruit a Nozuchi, Sudama to fuck his turn, fuse Bicorn, or fuse away the Preta from the hospital to get Sukukaja, or fuse a Shiisa for War Cry to offset his damage

At lv18 you can fuse an Uzume which will let you breeze through

>>376055919
Because those remakes drastically changed the entire game on a fundamental level. That's really not comparable to what a potential P5 Crimson would be at all.

>>376055594
I like her design but she doesn't seem SJ. More like SMT II or Final.

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>>376055958
Leave SMT to me anon.

>>376056114
>>376055594
I'd watch this catfight

>>376056054
We're talking about Deep Strange Journey.

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>>376047118
>save points
>high encounter rate
>game ends instantly if protag dies
>random encounters that use mamudo 3 times on the first turn
>having to spam the fuse option for hours to get a demon with the skills you want

It's pretty good, but jesus fuck.

>>376055734
You NEVER have to grind in an SMT game unless it's a super powerful endgame optional boss. Fuse something better.

>>376054308
What I really want is for physical attacks to cost HP again. I'm 20 hours into IV and all my physical demons just run out of mana instantly.

Genuinely harder bosses for the most part

Random encounters can be cheap if the enemy randomly gets the advantage

Demi-fiend doesn't really have many optimal builds apart from pure strength so the freedom to build him however you wish is misleading.

Story is minimalist in a good way

ost is great

>>376056258
Nocturne needs a remaster.

>>376056340
Shit I forgot about this. Yea I do not know why they thought this was a good idea.

>>376056258
I'd fucking kill to have Atlus remake every MT and SMT before IV with Apocalypse's fusion system and enemy icons

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>>376056340
>>376056417
>What I really want is for physical attacks to cost HP again.
Already got you covered.

>>376055734
Get a demon with buff skills, preferably. When in doubt, buff and debuff.

>>376056276
You know certain fusions are locked away under character levels.

>>376056258
>>high encounter rate
It's not that bad, check Skies of Arcadia for something truly terrible. Everything else is aight.

>>376056390
No, it doesn't. If so, a portable release. Graphics hold up really well.

>>376056417
I don't mind it, playing on the hardest difficulty, it kinda feels like demons are supposed to be disposable.

Most boss fights i'm going through 12 different demons. It mixes in with the ridiculous stock size you get.

>>376055667
Yeah casino is good too. Would have preferred they cut one of the other palaces to strengthen the others. Or maybe put in a dojo or something.

>>376056569
Well, that and partners

>>376047118
No, it's just that salty SMT purists can't stop shilling their favourite broken game.

>>376056389
Oh and forgot that press turn system is good fun

You can't select what skills fusions will inherit so it's going back and forth in a menu until you get what you want

If you ever drop the game for some time you'll forget every enemy weakness and have to waste a turn looking it up with the reusable analysis item (really checking up weaknesses/resistances shouldn't waste a whole turn).

>>376056541
Then fucking wait until you unlock it. Grinding is never required.

>>376055594
Featuring Yukiko from the Persona™ series.

>>376056258
>game ends instantly if protag dies

Nothing wrong with this. Hate that IV/A took this out and only in the Apocalypse difficulty is it back in.

>>376053982
I always see half-circle under the eyes as a mouth.

>>376056717
>If you ever drop the game for some time you'll forget every enemy weakness and have to waste a turn looking it up with the reusable analysis item
This is why I just check them online

>>376055781
>since she's an adult

Nozomi is also an adult

>>376056740
It's only okay if the protagonist is significantly stronger or if they have ways to protect themselves (i.e P5's confidants saving your ass constantly)

>>376056819
I hate that half circle smile, other than that I love everything else.

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>>376055129

>>376056740
I like how EOU deals with this: If you die once, you get a second chance, but nothing else.

>>376056863
You got me their senpai

>>376056258
Oh yeah I forgot to mention. As far as I can tell the bosses have no/limited AI, which is both boring and infuriating because to compensate they have busted abilities and can randomly decide to take 50 turns in a row.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIjVvnO5lgM

>>376056560
I think the game looks fine and the flaws probably aren't bad enough to warrant a remaster, but you're crazy if you think the fusing system is okay.

Is Persona 5 really marxist propaganda or is /pol/ memeing me?

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Been thinking about downloading Nocturne off PSN, are there any issues I should be worried about with it? I feel like I read something about not being able to get TDE because the game locks up but I may be remembering wrong.

>>376056981
That's only Mot. Most other bosses have a patterns that they follow fairly strictly

>>376057089
You have until the Tower of Kagutsuchi (final dungeon) to do the requirements for TDE from what I remember.

>high encounter rate in smt nocturne
you are like a little baby
watch this
SMT I encounter rate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wUxnLJFMbA

>>376057078
I wish its authors have read just a little bit of Marx before writing up that piece of fucking garbage. And, also, /pol/ is always memeing you.

>>376057089
The Europe version does the lock

>>376057089
Nocturne on the PS3?
If you disconnect your controller and reconnect it, It will have the weirdest controller lag. Avoid that shit at all costs

I feel like it also occurs if you shut off the ps3 and turn it on again quickly. Nocturne just really messes with my controller somehow.

>>376056981
The vast majority of bosses follow a very strict script. It's really just Mot that can fuck you over like that.

Also the fusion system IS perfectly fine. Letting you pick your skills freely causes nothing but balance issues with your party getting far too versatile and powerful far too quickly, it's one of the main reasons the newer games are all so trivial. If you want to reset fusions until you get your perfect skillset then that's completely on you, it's in no way ever necessary or even remotely intended in Nocturne.

>>376057078
They're probably salty about the Shido and Trump comparisons.

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is digital devil saga any good

How do I avoid grinding for money in Strange Journey?

I'm in sector grus, and any time I want to fuse something new, I gotta go grind for dosh

>>376050406
EP actually requires you to change personas though

>>376057498
The best Final Fantasy game

>>376057078
>is /pol/ memeing
when are they not

>>376057521
Grab every forma you can get your greedy demonica hands on?

>>376057498
It's fucking great. Even though the first game has some serious issues here and there, I still remember it fondly. DDS2 is an improvement in every regard.

Possibly best Meguro music, too.

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>>376057498
Best in the series.

>>376057078
>trusting /pol/

Come on anon

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>>376057498
Yes, it has the Turn Press from Nocturne with fixed parties but the Mantra system let's you make each character whatever you want them even if it's not optimal.

Story and soundtrack are the best of any MegaTen game.

>>376056721
Then obviously you can't fuse something better.

>>376049887
>They are harder than your standard JRPGs. You actually have to use buffs/debuffs, take advantage of weakness, and be mindful of resistances. Most of that you can just ignore in most RPGs.

That's literally what you also do in Persona, just that buffs are less relevant

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3299/
Spreading the word as I had no idea of this until the other day, I dont know how someone managed to fucking edit a ps2 game but thank god its a worthwhile one

>>376055915
that's lvl 20 anon, pretty much a six level grind at that point.

>>376057602

I'm loving P3FES and want to play P5 after, but I got pretty scared that it would be 60 hours of being taught how the free market is Satan. You can't blame me.

>>376057717
Uzume is 18

>>376057651
Also one of the craziest JRPG superboss

>>376057717
Uzume is objectively a level 18 demon and she's not even needed to beat Matador at all.

>376057448
>Also the fusion system IS perfectly fine. Letting you pick your skills freely causes nothing but balance issues with your party getting far too versatile and powerful far too quickly

Skill inheritance rules are used in P4G/5. Balance is only fucked in IV because every demon can get every skill. Final's affinities system also works.

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>>376057078
You should trust No Good-Tora, he's /our guy/

>>376057684
By "better" I mean "better for the boss you are fighting". Sidegrading to a demon with more useful skills is all you ever need.

>>376057717
Uzume is 18, but still. People are absolutely retarded if they actually tell you to grind that long for Matador, if you are low level and really can't beat him just get to lv14 and fuse a Nozuchi with Sukukaja. He completely trivializes it.

>>376057891
>Final's affinities system also works.
Redpill me on this, I keep seeing people bring it up every thread but I haven't gotten to play it yet.

>>376057743
I'm pretty sure I can, you had no reason to believe that

>>376056740
It was better when you had more than two human characters like in SMT1, is soul hackers like this?
>>376055594
I want to stick it in her pooper.

>>376057456
They're pretty evident. The problem with how it's done is how intensely shallow the whole thing is: we never get any political, social or cultural insight into anything, but a vague sense of yea the world is fucked, let's change it!! which would be fine for a character, but is reinforced for the whole narrative. I remember Shido saying: "I'm going to make this country great because its people are weak" and the game never goes deeper than that.

It feels like the whole game (and P4, for that matter) is written by a weird mix armchair commentators on Facebook and mediocre VN writers. And that asspull plan after the casino, jesus fuck...

>>376057950
Skills with negative affinities cost more MP. Jack Frost would take more MP to cast Agi than Bufu, for example

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>>376057415
>>376057436
Rad, thanks guys, been meaning to download it and DDS after binging down on P5 and SMTIV/A. Looking forward to finally going through them.

>>376057743
The main plot is all about "freedom", so there's some marxist vibes. Some things might make you feel uneasy if you're that against it, but for the most part they're intentionally like that.

especially because the message is that society sucks, just assholes suck more

>>376057912
That's if there will be any useful skills from those lower level demons. If I remember correctly you needed a decent level demon to just get buffs or debuffs. Some of the skills are locked away through levels on the demons as well and if it is an essential buff/debuff for the fight then you'd need to grind to get it anyway.

>>376054389
>Dungeons are the main draw of SMT!

>That's why puzzles are non-existent in them and also the encounter rate is sky high.
>Oh but we put a teleportal maze in one of the games too, so that PROVES our main focus is dungeon.

Are you high or stupid?

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>>376057953

It would just be very disappointing to me, I'm only 1/4th done with P3FES and it's my favorite game.

>>376057089
Finish the labyrinth of Amala before entering the tower of kagutsuchi (final base game dungeon).

>>376057891
P4G and P5 barely even matter in this discussion since you can swap Personas freely during combat, it's an entirely different situation.
Also Apoc's Affinities very quickly got very redundant, they simply didn't matter whatsoever for anything but attack spells once you got a bit further into the game. That system would be a lot better if you just straight up couldn't inherit skills the demon isn't proficient at.

>>376058189
Tell me why it's reasonable to think a video game would have marxist propaganda

>>376058123

I am anti-corporatism, so I vibe with commies until they learn I am a fan of a third method. Thank you, it sounds like /pol/ was over-reacting.

>>376058312

Some screenshots and descriptions of it made it seem rather heavy-handed.

>>376057078
Stop going to 4chan.

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>>376058134
What games have you played? Nocturne is the game most people start with, and that game has several puzzles in the dungeons. Also teleporter mazes aren't just in one game, a large number of games in the series have them. Seriously, what are you basing your claims off of?

>>376058442
It is heavy handed, but the game has nothing to say about social structures. At least nothing interesting.

>>376058442
Oh it's certainly heavyhanded at some points, but it's intentionally supposed to make you feel slightly uneasy.

>>376058093
>And that asspull plan after the casino
?

>>376047118
It's almost just as good imo, but anyone that says they love this game and hate Persona are idiots that think a game being difficult is the only thing that matters. Plus Persona isn't a cakewalk anyway.

>>376058134
>puzzles are non-existent

But there are puzzles along with hazards, pitfalls, verticality that's not just going from one floor to another and forget about the previous floor entirely?

>>376058503
Actually, Nocturne and SJ are next on my list and I hear high promise of those ones, but pretty much the rest of the series fails any litmus test I have for decent or good dungeon design. P5's dungeons are probably C- tier, and they're still largely better than every other SMT game I've played to date.

>>376058789
What the hell did you play?

>>376058789
Which SMT games did you play?

4 and 4A are pretty bad dungeon wise, but the others that do focus on dungeons are pretty good.

>>376058308
A SMT game with skill affinities and skill inheritance would work. Especially if the affinity penalty was much higher meaning demons won't be as OP.

>>376058916
4A seems like they throw everything at YHVH's dimension, which is a fucking mess visually

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>>376058789
The most puzzle you'll get in nocturne dungeons is in the 3 amala temples.

>>376058093
We get some insights culturally, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of it was lost in translation, but you're right. For the most part, there's not much commentary on society, except for a little bit in the Mementos Depths.


Also, I felt the asspull plan worked, but just barely. At least it was set up properly.

>>376058312
A game could be considered marxist propaganda if it advocates the revolution of the proletariat. /pol/ can't differenciate between propaganda and theme, though.

For example, Final Fantasy Tactics uses a marxist perspective on the superstructure and class struggle in its narrative.

>>376058665
The one about killing a clone of Joker to catch the traitor redhanded, which falls apart if anyone even considers manipulating the corpse to further incriminate the rest of the group, or even make a biased report on the cause of death. And there are a lot of reasons why anyone as corrupt as the ones invested would be interested in something like that.

>>376059052
>White Temple
>Puzzle

>>376059052
That dungeon with the mirrors messed me up

>>376059130
Fuck this trial and error bullshit. Nocturne dungeons were okay, I liked the Diet Building personally, but the random teleporting rooms can fuck off.

>>376059109
Oh right the whole plan fell apart from the fact that somehow Sae had to transport Joker out of the building with no one noticing and the fact that it depended on no one checking for a corpse.

>>376058789
Strange Journey is about avoiding hazard tiles and crab walking to find hidden doors in the walls. You probably won't find good dungeon design there.

Nocturne has some light puzzles in some of the dungeons like one in which you switch between the floor and the ceiling of a building, another with moving a block in a certain amount of turns to get across, or the teleport maze at the end. Though I guess a teleport maze would just be trail and error.

>>376059356
Wasn't there a shadow based puzzle in a nocturne dungeon where you couldn't leave the shadows (or was it step on one?)?

>>376058906
>>376058916
SMT 1
Part of SMT 2
SMT 4
Persona 1 - 5 + Q
Raidou 1
Soul Hackers
Devil Survivor 1 & 2
Digital Devil Saga pt 1
Jack Bros

Honestly speaking, P5, PQ, and Jack Bros are the ones with the best dungeon design relative to the rest of the series I have played thus far.

>>376059502
>Hating on Soul Hackers dungeons
I liked them, what was so wrong with those ones?

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>>376058348
I sometimes go to /pol/[/spoiler and I enjoyed P5's themes a lot.
It's more psychology than any political thing.
It's about a bunch of kids that are getting shit on by society in general. And their anger towards everyone higher up allowing them to "rip off their masks" and gain the freedom to live life the way they want.
The story was probably written way before the US election too.

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Hello I'm the dullest dungeon in nocturne next to the sewers which are arguably less dull due to not being a hassle to cross.

>>376059502
Nocturne and SJ has some cool atmosphere and dungeons are very maze-like at times, and pretty much each of them has a sort of gimmick to it

>>376059473
I can't remember, it has been a few years since I've played it.

>>376059502
Soul Hacker has some great dungeons, what the fuck are you talking about

>>376059104
>At least it was set up properly.

The setup would be fine if the traitor would've worked alone and was in an isolated building. The thing is, the plan is executed inside the police headquarters, a policeman is fucking killed and no one cares to see if there's a goddamn corpse or to manipulate it to incriminate the rest of the group, which the villains know the exact names of and never attempt to put spies on. It expects that everyone around it is retarded to barely function, specially the player.

>>376059473
Yeah, that's the Red? Temple in the Amala Temple area.

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>>376059648
What's the name of the dungeon where you fight pic related and you have to step on the tiles to manipulate the moon cycle in Nocturne?
That one was great.

>>376059643
>Sewers not a hassle to cross
Need I remind you if walk in the water the encounter rate becomes +1000%

>>376059502
Strange Journey will be up your alley. Play EO too.

>>376059608
>>376059670

What part of Soul Hackers is good, exactly? They got a little cute with some of the boss encounters, and oh no better run through this entire section before the floor falls without getting an ecounter! was cute, but overall, it was just P1 dungeon design with a somewhat more real-time element added in at places.

>>376059839
Isn't that the Tower at the end? Or the Obelisk?

Any dungeon that uses teleporter mazes is not a well designed dungeon.

I love SMT but fuck teleporter mazes.

>>376059839
They're in the tower you climb to find your teacher, I think it has a different name before it becomes the tower of kagutsuchi in the end.

>>376059839
Obelisk

>>376059912
Soul Hackers has dungeons that make actual dungeon crawlers like EO or DT blush in shame. You probably just quickly rushed through to tick it off on your little list and missed all the good side stuff.

>>376059839
Jesus no, that one was horrific. Mudo ambushes everywhere.

>>376059949
Add to this random pitfalls and invisible doors

Tedium =/= difficulty

>>376059643
At least that boss fight is easy (and also funny as fuck)

And that dungeon was the last straw for me to go to First Kalpa and grab that Estoma Picasa

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What if conveyor belt rooms in the dark?

>>376059839
Yeah Moraire time puzzle was the funnest.
I liked the illusion puzzle in the diet building too.

>>376060135
Oh I did rush through Soul Hackers, but it wasn't to fulfill an imaginary quota or anything. I rushed through it because the rest of Soul Hackers is pretty bad in general. Easily the worst SMT game I've played to date.

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>>376060270
>Diet Building
*blocks your path*

>>376060163
You get that Void Mudo Magatama after Ose

>>376059640

Thank you anon

>>376059912
Seeing the dungeon once in the past as a lost soul, then remembering it again might be hard for some people. I'm sorry Anon.

Anyhow there were cool Puzzles mid dungeon, I remember the riddle with the 5 old men. Or the Chess dungeon where you had to move in a certain pattern due to the symbols.

"No loitering!", you stop and you fall down.

Overall the dungeons did alot of cool things.

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Marathoning the smt series

Gonna go with this order
>SMT1
>SMT2
>SMT3 Noct
>Raidou
>Raidou2
>SMT SJ

Then I will decide if I want to buy 4 any tips for me?

I just started playing Nocturne and the Amala and sewer dungeons were pure dogshit

I'm going to assume you guys are just shiteaters, this game blows

>>376059640
The problem is that P5 in particular is agressively about politics and society, without having any regard or interest about it, disregarding how social relations manifests nowadays in any shape or form outside of stereotipes. The game also always forces you to take the most violent and idiotic way of resolution possible.

>>376060175
If there are spells or something to revel invisible doors in a certain radius of the player it would be better than just crab walking and trying every god damn wall.

Pitfalls are okay to a point. If it is overused in every single dungeon then yeah it is tedious. Though if you have to jump through holes to get to certain sections of the map then it can be good. Or certain traps the push you into pitfalls so you have to be mindful of those traps and pitfall locations.

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I got DDS and 2 from psn and heard they had issues, so I'm wondering if it's fine to just play through the game anyways?

>>376060273
Yeah, 90% of what makes Soul Hackers good is side quests and optional content. The actual story is pretty bare bones, only gives you very little character development, and barely really explores the cool setting at all.

>>376060397
Out of curiosity, is there a name for the fallacy of stating that someone's dislike of something is due to the person's short comings? Does anyone know if that word exists?

>>376060420
Nobody thinks Amala and sewers are good anon. At least try until Nihilo

>>376060541
It's essentially an ad hominem. "You think x is bad because you're y, therefore x is invalid."

>>376060483
I always hear people saying they crash all the time, but I played through the DDS games twice on my PS3 by now and never experienced anything. Save often I guess, just in case, but I wouldn't worry too much

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What is the strongest build for demi fiend what skills do I aim for and what bugs do I consume?

>>376060483
It has audio desync issues in cutscenes.

>>376060627
Some of the later Amala sections are good though like when you go after Isamu.

>>376060541
Attack ad hominem

>>376060541
A possibility is not a fallacy anon.

>>376060710
Physical with some debuff and buff spells and 1 offensive spell of your choice for when the enemy is impervious to physical (you'll get physical ways to circumvent that in end game).

>>376060710
World of Str. Must have is Focus

>>376060424
Well yeah I sort of agree with that. I think the theme is done in a much better way than P4's truth theme, but a little worse than P3's death theme.
This time it's all about anger, with teenagers lashing out at the world it makes sense thematically that they don't think about the bigger picture too much.
It feels somewhat in line with an SMT chaos route where passion and doing what you feel is right is more important than doing what you think is best.

Gong for the nuclear option every time, instead of trying to reform society in a slow and smart way felt good to me.

>>376060851
My magic is at base I only upgraded STR,VIT,AGI and once in a blue moon LUCK

>>376060534
Yeah but if I didn't enjoy the main game why would I bother to stick around for the rest of the game? Right? Like if I played through Majora's Mask and I absolutely hated playing the game in general, sure you can say "Most of the game is outside of the main quest!" But if the main quest can't inspire enough interest for the player to hook onto the many side quests that will be presented to the player during the journey, then you can't really say that you missed out on the game for not enjoying it enough to spend more time with it.

>>376060690
>>376060739

It just feels so specific that I would have thought a particular word would have already been attached to it, but I suppose that's just the way it is.

>>376060779

It's also possible that you enjoyed Soul Hackers because you're a mouth breathing special-ed student who just masturbated too much to Nemissa. Do you see where that pointless argument will lead? Spoiler: It leads to nowhere

>>376060462
Traps you can see and avoid? Fine. But strange journey's engine doesn't allow for this.

You just step on a random tile and WHOOPS, pitfall, enjoy hiking your way back up, only to fall into another one.

Another problem with strange journey is that you barely even look at the top screen because it's fucking useless.

I really do hope Deep Strange Journey fixes this, though I have my doubts.

>>376061032
Make sure you get Fog Breath.

>>376061032
Don't put point in Luck. If you want to crit shit your phys skill will suffice

Put some point in Mag once in a blue moon since it increase Mag resist

>>376060710
Luck is a must have on all builds since it affects every aspect of battles. Go for a spread of magic since phys is generally no good late game - health costs increase exponentially and most bosses have some form of counter/avenge/retaliate.

>>376061160
Why has everyone told me phy is better late game then?

>>376061243
Anon, I...

>>376061243
He's bullshitting you.

>>376061061
That's standard Dungeon Crawler fare and one of the things that makes them exciting to play though. If you could just see all the traps by being observant there would be no tension there. You always have to consider the possibility of falling into a trap while you are charting unexplored territory, that's kind of important to the genre

>>376061160
This is literally wrong.

>>376047118
SMT, II, IV, and Strange journey are. nocturne? nah

>>376061243
He's literally memeing you phys is fucking bonkers late game with shit like freikugal and focus + buffs/debuffs. You can legitimately one shot some bosses and do 15000+ damage.

I think my highest was 18,000 crit on lucifer