How would /v/ fix Steam refunds so developers stop complaining?

remove refunds and bring back flash sales
if you retards are too stupid to research a game before you buy it you only have yourself to blame

>>376027671
We don't. Refunds force shit devs to improve or go belly up.

>>376027671
Post a statement saying that it's staying as it is, and no amount of botching will change it. Fucking indie devs need culling off Steam anyway.

>>376027671
improve refunds to make it 24 hours
consumer rights are worth more

>>376027671
Refunds are fine where they are
the only devs i've seen that actually complained about refunds making them lose a shit ton of money are devs behind games like dear esther, machine for pigs, and other games that can be easily completed in sub 2 hours

>>376027671
Arkane literally said that if people want to demo Prey they can just play a couple hours and then refund it.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/prey-dev-explains-why-theres-no-pc-demo/1100-6449777/

>The reason? "It's just a resource assignment thing," Arkane president Ralph Colantonio said in an interview with AusGamers. "We couldn't do a demo on both the console and on the PC, we had to choose.

>In addition, he explained that the developer chose to focus on consoles because players on PC can play the game for up to two hours after launch and get a refund for it, due to Steam's refund program. "Besides, PC has Steam," he stated. "Steam players can just return the game [prior to playing] 2 hours so it's like a demo already."

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>>376027671
That guy is only complaining because his games are shorter than 2 hours long.

Allow refunds for early access games no matter the playtime

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Tell them to move to mobile.

>>376028205
>>376027967
Nah, the more you increase the time, the more people will abuse the refund system.
2 hours is not enough tho, I'd say 4 is the sweet spot.

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never forget

>>376027671

That's retarded, then a dev has to/gets to decide how much of a game is "completed" at any given point

If someone gets less than 2-hour out of your game just sell it on android or some shit or make better games.

t. unsuccessful shitdev

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>>376028427

>toxic consumer-first ideology

Do these people listen to the words that come out of their mouths?

>>376028820
they are just assblasted their indie shovelware didn't go viral

>>376027671
>Make a game that can be completed in 12 minutes
>lol you think ur entitled to a refund of this 15 dolla gayum?

The only thing refunding on Steam needs is refunds for games that in some way have issues or problems.

For example, games that are broken and buggy, playtime should not factor into this, it's broken and anyone should be entitled to a no questions asked refund.
Likewise games that never get finished or the developer abandons it, these games should be eligible for a no questions asked refund.

Outside of this, the refund policy on Steam is fine.

>>376028820
The funny thing is they probably vote AGAINST THE MAN

Entitled people only think of themselves. If the role was reversed they would be whining the same way.

I mean, these same assholes will get tons of money on kickstarter then be surprised when people are upset that they're two years behind schedule.

>>376027671
Developers should make their game longer than 2 hours.

>>376028427
Who the hell is this faggot? He sounds like a whiny entitled bitch who's upset that his shit game didn't sell because "you guys just don't get it"

>>376027719
Does everyone just impulse buy their games?
It's not hard to avoid a bad port.

>>376027671
By not remaking this thread every day.

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>>376027671
>Scam people with your 1 hour game
>Complain when people want their money back

>>376029205

I mean I'm lib as fuck, I'm just amazed by the cognitive dissonance it requires to craft a phrase like "toxic consumer-first ideology".

Like fuck, brah, take a step back and read that for a sec.

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>>376027671
>walking simulator dev complaining about refunds
>mad they can't profit from tricking people into thinking they made an actual game
Pottery.

Refunds on digital content are completely fucking retarded.

Take away Obamacare so they all go out of business, like they were crying about yesterday. Devs will have to start creating better games and people won't want to return a good game.

Or you can go full jew like with Battleborn where it logged a shit ton of time after you ended the program.

>>376027671
Remove whiny "developers". Their games fucking suck if you can complete them in 2 hours and didn't like it enough to keep it.

>>376029856
Please explain in detail why are you against your own rights.

>>376029856
Why?

>>376030063
>>376030067

Please don't feed the troll

How do you measure percentage?
The only way to do it is based off achievements, in which case developers would shove more achievements into the first 10 minutes of the game to make your completion high after only a short period.
Approximate playthough length doesn't work because some games are meant to be played many times with short playthroughs and some games have 60+ hour playthroughs.
I still haven't "beat" Mount and Blade despite putting hundreds of hours into the game.

Indie devs just need to stop putting their short crappy games on steam.
These games used to be freeware anyway.
Cave Story was free originally and it was better than most of the shit you see on steam for $10.

>>376027671
>Frontload 4 achievements at the first 5 minutes of your game
>Game now can't be refunded

Checkmate

>>376027671
>Game is shorter than 2 hours
>must have no replay-ability, hook, or even reason for existing.
Do nothing, game is shit.

>>376027671
>Kills amnesia franchise
>Still not out of business
Hopefully this refund policy will put these assholes in homeless shelters

>>376027671
Maybe they should stop complaining and start making better games.

>>376028427
>starts a business
>doesn't know that the customer is always right

>>376029616
>im liberal as fuck and am amazed how stupid liberals are
>im liberal as fuck
Are you Anon?

>>376030582
I emailed steam saying all the games should be free to me because the customer is always right
they said no
wtf /v/?

>>376027671
I don't understand
Shouldn't refunds be fixed so customers stop complaining? I'm bringing money in, why the fuck am I the only one not being catered to?

>>376030694

>don't pay anything
>customer

Nothing to fix really

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>>376027671
chinese room needs to stop posting

>Increase time to 3 hours
>if the game is early access you can refund it whenever you want
>if the game is a horrible port the game gets labeled as BROKEN and can be refunded whenever you want no matter playtime
There i just fixed the system.

>>376030689

Wow maybe it's as if the behaviour of individual retards doesn't speak for an entire political ideology, particularly one who would normally disagree with the retardation being presented.

You wouldn't want me to judge you by middle aged rednecks who post IF JESUS IS YOUR SAVIOR HIT SHARE one their Facebook all day, would you?

>>376031021
Oh, yeah you're a lib alright. Nm.

>>376028427
>ALL of this services GamerGate´s toxic consumer-first ideology and complete lack of ethical fibre regarding piracy.

This tweet is amazing on so many levels.

>Suggest GamerGate had anything to do with with Steam´s policies
>Admits GamerGate is a consumer revolt
>Somehow being pro-consumer is toxic.

>>376030794
yes? i have bought something from steam before. why should I have to buy the rest
I demand it free. I am the customer and I am always right

>>376027671
Start making good games

If a game is completed in less than 2 hours then it deserves to be refunded.

Limitations on indie developer = better products

See: Kickstarter - the result of developers getting free from production restraints

>>376027671
don't impulse buy
don't preorder
don't buy early access

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>>376030582
Anyone who says this has never worked in service or retail.

The customer is a faggot.

>2 hour """""games"""""

>>376031126

Because your transaction was for that original game, unrelated to the other games you now want for free. Maybe if you didn't make shitty games that could be beaten in under two hours you wouldn't be complaining, but I guess that takes actual effort.

>>376029856
>try to kill of physical media which has refunds
>complains when digital media now has refunds
Sorry your Jewish tricks didn't work this time.

>>376031212
Go ahead and call him a faggot then, see who comes out ahead in the end dipshit.

>>376031212

You miss the intention of the saying

Refund period isn't long enough. Americans are so used to having coporations shit down their throats that a turd on a plate looks comparatively luxurious. Meanwhile, in the civilized world, people can return their shit FOR ANY REASON for 14 days after purchase. Unfortunately, the Ameridumbs so willingly eating corporate excrement allows Valve to do things like force me to waive my rights and belittle myself to the American level.

>>376031580
Of course you don't call the customer a faggot.

You just know they are a faggot.

>>376027671
How to fix this:
>Step1 (hard mode): make a video game and not "art" walking simulators
>Step2 (Very hard mode): add demos
>Step3 (Nitomaru mode): dont buy indie games

>>376027967
>24 hours

Are you retarded?

>>376027671
>Refunds should operate off a percentage of game completed.
>make game with 0 content
>NO REFUNDS, 100% PROFIT

>>376031670
And above all you treat them as right

>>376027671
Allow refunds after 3 hours played instead of after 2 hours played, just to piss them off more.

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>>376031647
>you actually typed this out

>>376032075
>A few sentences is too much to read for an American
How do you retards remember to breathe?

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>>376031647
>i have poor impulse control
>it's the Americans fault

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>>376032215
Not American chief

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>>376032075
>>376032263
Good goys!

>>376032263
No, it's the American's fault for accepting terrible anti-consumer refund policies. That legitimizes them and tells Valve they can push that garbage anywhere.
If Valve started in the EU we would have never accepted a policy that allows Valve to BAN YOUR ACCOUNT for using the policy as intended.

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>>376032464
>implying i buy games

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>>376032363
>they don't have watermelon sandwhiches

>>376027671
Include a "Do not refund" tag on Steam. That way Indies will be sated and I can search said tag to have an idea of what games to avoid.

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>>376032551
So don't use the service?

>>376032735
I don't have a choice. It's either piracy, retro-only, or Steam cancer.

>>376027671
How do we fix the Chinese room?

Im thinking social media and Starbucks ban.

>limit refunds per account per year
>make refunds only 75%
>provide 2 hour play demo for all games
>charge less for games
>male games longer
Pick one. These are all the viable options.

>>376033292

are you implying female games are shorter? UUUUHHH SEXIST MUCH!?!?!?

>>376027671
Actually align Steam refund system with the law and make it so that you can get one during a week with no condition over playtime

>>376031647
What makes you think that we aren't allowed to refund products? That kind of business practice started here. Obligation free purchases have been a popular business tactic here since forever, as long as the product isn't damaged you can usually return anything within a month. Some smaller places are usually limited to 7 days. Customer services at large retailers, mainly because of returns, always have a huge line. I don't get what it is with you third world mouth breathers acting like you know fucking anything that goes on here when you lack any real knowledge of what goes on outside of our entertainment and news industry. Fuck you and your shitty mouth breather shithole

>>376028205
This, make indie """devs""" have a flowchart of features they have to include to consider the game complete and offer unlimited refunds for game in alpha/beta/WIP state and if they release the game and fail to meet their promises leave an unlimited refund time.

These faggots need to learn the consequences of liyng and missing deadlines.

>>376028820
No, they don't and you know what I bet a ton of people like retweet and follow that guy. Aren't you glad the internet became a platform for that kind of behavior

>>376027671
How many times are you going to make this thread?

>>376033615
America has no mandated consumer protection laws. For a long time, Valve was like all of the other American companies and openly told you guys "LOL NO REFUNDS" while offering Europeans the withdrawals they are entitled to. Blizzard is another example of a company saying LOL NO REFUNDS and there is nothing you can do about it. That's simply unacceptable for a 1st world country.

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>>376031080
Amazing argument, there.

Faggot.

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>>376033837
>implying Burgerland is still a 1st world country

>>376033837
We don't have legislation for returns because it isn't necessary for us to legislate that. All of our retailers have lax return policies. With just about every retailer its bare minimum a week, most of the time a month, and in the case of most clothing stores: 90 days. Now your little hellhole on the other hand had to have corporate greed legislated out because your "people" are such greedy mouth breathing subhumans that returns aren't even part of their regular obligatory business practices. I repeat: fuck you.

>>376034350
>most of the time a month, and in the case of most clothing stores: 90 days
but that's not true

>>376034491
But it is

JUST

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>complete game 100%
>refund game for 100% of the price
this is what pcbros actually believe
may god himself delete this post if I'm wrong

>>376027671
>so developers stop complaining?
fuck developers. they already ruined steam gifting. sick of these faggots.

>>376029616
People make up words and phrases all the time nowadays anon. Everyone's so insane that cognitive dissonance is just normal.

>>376031840
EA gives you a week

>>376034350
>Our retailers are kind hearted enough to offer generous return policies with no legal obligation! Trust me!
I just pointed out two specific examples of American companies saying NO REFUNDS LOL. You gave me generalization.
Also, no, the consumer protection laws weren't instated because European retailers are awful people, although some surely were, but to establish a legal minimum of rights in no uncertain terms, as well as to prevent American companies from bringing their shit policies into the EU.

>percentage of the game completed
>make a game give you 99% completion after 5 minutes of gameplay
What a fucking retard

>>376034350
>We don't have legislation for returns because it isn't necessary for us to legislate that.

http://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/customer-returns-and-refund-laws-by-state.html

In short: three days for any purchase over $25, assuming it is something that can be returned. (no movie tickets, for example) There are also laws against just not getting the item advertised and/or getting it broken. So there are federal laws about returning a product, although most retailers will be more lax with their own policies.

>>376034931
A week of in game play or a real world week?

Big Difference

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tried to post this about steam 2 days ago but got no responses, reposting the changes to gifting/selling games

>>376035052
Real world week.

>you can finish a game in two hours
>devs expect you to pay for it
Haha no

>>376029616
>I'm lib as fuck
You need to go back

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>>376027671
STOPPP!!!! STOP REFUNDING!!!

Refunds just shouldn't be allowed unless you can demonstrably prove what you paid for wasn't what was advertised. It doesn't matter if it was subjectively shit, if it does what it said it does and wasn't broken then you can't complain.

>this thread again
How many weeks are you going to do this, Anon? How desperate for (You)s are you?

>>376035335
>I hate having rights

>>376035335
You're a fucking moron.

>>376035335
That's fucking retarded and you know it

>>376035335
Now apply this logic to any other industry or product

>>376035240

I've been here longer than you, faggot.

You go back.

>>376034939
Well what can I say in the case of Valve and Blizzard, it's a bizarre industry full of piracy, while I'm sure they're in no rush to come out with a refund policy, the fact of the matter is: they probably don't know what the right policy is. You can easily replicate WarCraft III by purchasing the game from Blizzard's Shop online and then copy and paste it onto a USB drive and distribute it to all of your friends easily then ask for a refund (assuming there was a 14 day money back guarantee) and have the game for you and all your buddies plus your money. I'm all for shitty indie walking simulator """developers""" not making a penny but ensuring both consumer AND corporate satisfaction is messy at this point. There will be a refund policy that works, but not until the consumers force Valve and Blizzard to make one. Valve could probably do it more simply, but they seem content as it is.

>>376028427
>toxic consumer-first ideology
What a fucking faggot. Maybe he should try making a game that isn't so shit that people want their money back after less than 2 hours played.

Demos usually contain some content from different parts of the game. With refunding you only get to see the beginning, the part that developers already blow the most resources and energy on so you have no idea how the actual game is. Sure you can polish demos too to look better than the actual game but that takes extra effort and is less likely to be abused unlike just letting people refund after playing the beginning that would have been polished regardless.

>>376027671
Extend it to 4 hours

>>376035423
>>376035485
>>376035498
>>376035518

This already what's similar to other entertainment. You can't show up at a video store ranting that you thought Spiderman or some book you bought was shit so you want your money back. If you could, prices would go up to make up for loses, and keep rising.

Something like No Man's Sky should definitely be allowed to be refunded, because they objectively lied time and time again. Whereas some who says "hi, this our walking simulator here's a video of gameplay its £14.99" is a different case, you knew what you were buying, it doesn't matter whether you've changed your mind or not.

>>376028427
>Toxic consumer first ideology
Fucking Americans I swear
Gas the fatties
World War now

>>376028205

I think this would be a good incentive to curb the perpetual """""""alpha"""""" phase of most early access games, but I'm not sure what side effect it could have

>>376035538
To be fair, I think the refund policy Valve has right now is acceptable if, and only if, demos are provided. That way you wouldn't have to abuse the policy and risk repercussions. In the case of no demo, the refund time needs to extended. "No refunds" needs to go, though.

>>376027671
nothing needs to be fixed, they just need to make less shitty games.

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Make good games and people won't refund them

>>376027671
>developers
5 white faggots that makes walking simulators using pre-made assets and codes are devs now?

>>376027671

But it works perfectly. I havent even needed to use the refund system once.

>>376028407
Why the actual fuck would anyone abuse the refund system when piracy is easier?

>>376035968
Less early access limbo games. The big issue when you have early access games that are ~$30. Early access should be like $5-$10 and then pay the rest on release.

>>376035919
>a vocal minority represents the majority
This is why brexit is a thing you know

>>376027671
Ignore complaints

>>376027671
>le foul mouthed cool company XD

would it kill millennials to have just an ounce of professionalism once in a while?

>>376035820
>Something like No Man's Sky should definitely be allowed to be refunded, because they objectively lied time and time again. Whereas some who says "hi, this our walking simulator here's a video of gameplay its £14.99" is a different case, you knew what you were buying, it doesn't matter whether you've changed your mind or not.

Alright then if your game doesn't last more than 2 hours the max price tag it can have has to be set to 20€ removing the 20% of it every months up to a -80%.

Deal?

>>376027671
Change time to how much the game costs.
$2 game? 20 min. $40+? 4 hours.
Scale it linearly in between.

>>376036393
>every 6 months*

>>376028427
Have you ever made a game?

>>376036447
>60 hour game
>$600

do they call themselves the chinese room because all their products are terrible quality rip offs

Make a demo for your shitty games that are being refunded. Oh wait your "full game" is shorter and worse than most demos.

>>376036513
obviously you would have a cutoff after 10 or so hours anon.

>>376027671
We dont. The only ones complaining have made bad games.

>>376036513
Wut
I mean essentially do away with refunds for bottom of the barrel indie shit. 20 min just to see if it installs correctly.
A $40+ game would give you 4 hours (or maybe 6?) to play it and allow refund.
Anything in between $2-$40 would be essentially a line of cost/time to refund.

>>376036732
this. literally the only ones I've seen bitching about it are ones that make complete garbage games.

>>376027671
Remove the 2 hour restriction, and the 2 week restriction.

nothing needs to be "fixed" since nothing is broken
crybaby nu-devs that complain about this are exactly the type of people that don't deserve sales

Nyet, refund is fine.
Tell shitty developers if they don't like it don't use Steam.

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>>376027671
>>376035325
They're half right.

If I can complete 100% of in 2 hours, then I should be able to get 100% refund.

>be hipster
>constantly bitch and moan about capitalism and whine about how everyone should be more like Europe with their progressive consumer protection laws
>Steam adds Europe-esque consumer protection policy
>complain

0 fucking integrity from these pansies.

>>376028427
this guy is a troll

>>376027671
Who would decide how much content for a game is X% cleared? I mean I could say jumping on the first goomba is 70% because that is how you kill every enemy.

>How would /v/ fix Steam refunds so developers stop complaining?

Make better games that people wouldn't want to refund in two hours?

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>>376036005
Yeah, it's not a horrible policy but it could use a spit shine. I agree with what some other anons are saying, 4 hour period, and always have refunds open for early access.

Some games can have tutorials eat up most of that 2 hours these days. You might not really get into the meat and potatoes of a game until after the refund period is over. You might think you dislike a game because of the beginning but end up really liking it a little bit further in. 2 hours simply isn't enough time to make a fully informed decision in my opinion. 4 hours seems like a good time, even a bit long really, but far more friendly than 2 hours.

Early Access really needs to get skullfucked too. Investing $20 into a game that looks like it has promise but just isn't there that never ends up getting finished because the devs made a killing already is outright unacceptable. Demos need to make a comeback, heck even fucking Nintendo does this right, and Early Access needs to go. We need more games that are finished and worth what people pay for. Higher scrutiny on devs WILL accomplish this, whether they know it or not, or it will at least wade out the shit they push out constantly.

>>376027671
The developers are free to sell their games on platforms other than steam, they could sell it off their own site with no refund.

>>376027719
>remove refunds and bring back flash sales

I wish it was still like this but EU consumer rights and the law blah blah

>>376028820
>anon's first encounter with a sjw

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>Order Pizza.
>Eat the Pizza.
>Mmmm, delicious.
>"Refund, please!"

The fact you faggots take the time to defend this self-destructive retardation is baffling. You expect a business to survive while wanting everything free.

>>376034831
Devs would actually prefer that - but Steam is the one removing things like 4 packs.

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>>376027671
Remove refunds, force developers to hand out demos like they used to and not expect people to throw money at them for a product they only know from trailers and paid youtubers

Refunds were made to protect the customer. Isn't it kinda ironic how the devs are now crying since they can't rip you off anymore?

>>376038132
>food analogy

HERE YOU FUCKING GO ! AMERICAN """"""""""CULTURE"""""""""" EVERYONE

1. Force early access games to be free until they get a full release. The vast majority of buyer's remorse comes from early access games that never get finished. The point of early access is to have a large population of free beta testers who will give you feedback and find bugs in it before the final build is published. The player is paying for access to the game by beta testing it, no money should be involved before the final version is complete.
2. this >>376038280

Then make a demo

Oh, I forgot their games are shorter than demos

>>376027719
Sometimes you want a refund because there is an unforeseen bug that causes the game to crash that doesn't happen to everyone, but happens to you. Which happened to me.

Refunds are perfectly fine the way they are. The devs complaining are the ones making shit games that get refunded.

the whole puppygames scandal was a great example. They shove their garbage shit games out to humblebundle, then are surprised when the few people that bought them refund them?

Come on guys.

If it gets shit ports off of PC because companies are afraid of having their shit refunded, i'll be glad. arkham knight was a prime example of how to fuck up credibility for your studio.

>>376038132
>Order pizza
>crust is moldy and cheese has gone rancid
>ask for refund
>HA! no way faggot you fucking eat it and get dysentry!

>>376028427
>blames libertarianism
So the dude knows literally nothing. Libertarianism would benefit companies more than consumers, since consumer protections are typically seen via laws created by the government, which is what libertarians want less of. I wish Twitter had an ignorance level test or something to post there.

>>376027841

This. Refunds are fine as are. I do not care if a developer complains. Get a different job if you can't handle it.

Indie developers are spoiled. Video game journalism hugbox tell them their games are good, so they never realize that they're actually shit

If this were how it works I could refund most of my games for nearly full price.

>>376038576
>complaining about food analogy

Is this a new meme?

I've got bad news for the Chinese Room because the refund policy is about to get even better for the consumer when the next big Steam update happens. They are getting rid of the 2 hour limit and doing a no strings attached refund that you can use once per week. Also, if you partake in curating games then you'll get even more refund possibilities. Watch all the shit tier devs weep and complain.

>>376040419
To be fair, there is the very real potential for that to be abused. If you've completely played through a game, then to some degree you've gotten your moneys worth -- you don't get a refund for movies or other things just because you didn't enjoy the product.

However I do agree that giving the consumer refund opportunities like that is essential. I just mean to say the potential for abuse is there, which is something to keep in mind.

Maybe the solution is for all games to try to go to a more donation based system. You get the game for a smaller price, and then you pay more if you feel the game is worth it. Of course I'm sure most people wouldn't donate so that's not a perfect system either.

>>376027671
Make better games that dont last two hours. Pretty simple.

>>376040419
>They are getting rid of the 2 hour limit and doing a no strings attached refund that you can use once per week. Also, if you partake in curating games then you'll get even more refund possibilities.
[citation needed]

What if there was a tiered refund system based on your completion percentage? You get less money back the more you complete. There can obviously be a threshold for where the reduction starts (say 10% or something), and the only way you get nothing back is if it's 100% completion.

>>376041218
TotalBiscuit talked extensively about it in one of his videos some weeks ago. He was asked by Valve to come over and talk about the future of Steam and how to improve it and its self-curation functions, because currently they are useless and serve no purpose at all.

>>376038119

Does social justice include video game development now somehow?

>>376041352
>developers front-load achievements
>First Time Installing The Game
>Turning The On Game
>First Time Looking At The Game Menu
>Starting The Game
>Beginning First Stage
>Watched First Cutscene
>50% of achievements before the first gameplay begins
>cannot qualify for a full refund because already 50% of the way through the game already

>>376039684
Spoken like somebody who doesn't understand Libertarianism one bit. Why do you think so many companies are leftist and push for "consumer protections"? It ain't because of the consumer, you nimrod, but fucking over upstart competition pre-emptively.

>>376041684
I'm not trying to get into a philosophical discussion about what's better, I'm saying that libertarianism wants less government interference, and consumer protection laws are government interference. There are also different intensities of libertarianism.

>>376042105
I'm just saying you should keep your Libertarian-bashing out of this.

The reason Demo's are so uncommon these days is that they're proven to lower purchase rates. Though now that there's a semi-proper refund system on steam I think publishers are starting to warm up to them again (See: Prey)

>>376038132
>Order pizza.
>Eat the pizza.
>Mmmm, delicious.
>Last bite, find a toenail.
>"Refund, please!"

Still a shit analogy, but it's at least slightly more relevant.

>>376038132
>Order pizza
>Get half a bread-stick and a small pot of cheese dip
>"Refund, please!"

>>376042320
>The reason Demo's are so uncommon these days is that they're proven to lower purchase rates
>Devs make such shitty games they don't release demos because people can see just how shitty or unoptimized they are before playing them
GEE I WONDER WHAT THE REAL ISSUE IS HERE

>>376042237
What a sensitive priss you are. I am a libertarian myself but the fact is that what I said is accurate. The Twitter comment was libertarian bashing and I basically called him a retard, saying more libertarian policies could potentially help him.

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>>376027671
Make it 4 hours.

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>>376038132
Welcome to being a restaurant where SURPRISE SUR-FUCKING-PRISE your reputation ACTUALLY MATTERS.

Unlike game companies that can literally shit on customer's faces and still get fellated by fanboy, restaurants are in a constant state of competition and actually have to have GOOD customers service.

Maybe if you weren't such an anti-consumer faggot and actually made good games shit wouldn't come back to bite you in the ass. So instead of bitching about refunds of fucking twitter maybe you should focus on making your "pizza" not taste like smegma and AIDS.

>>376027671
>we just need to tailor a different customized refund policy for every single individual game guys, it'd be so much simpler!

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>>376028427
>toxic consumer first ideology
>valve is a toxic structure of rich libertarians
son...

>>376038132
>order a pizza
>it's literally only 1 bite even though you paid for a large
>tastes disgusting
>demand refund
>BUT YOU ATE THE WHOLE THING

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>>376028427
>consumer rights
>toxic
Europe and Australia did nothing wrong

>>376031083
the gamgergate doublethink is fucking hilarious

>gamergate is only about harassing women
>consumer rights and shitty journalism have NOTHING to do with gamergate
>mention consumer rights or shitty journalism in a completely separate context in a conversation that has nothing to do with gamergate
>don't even mention gamergate or women
>FUCKING WOMAN HATING GAMERGATER

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>>376044013
>that pic
Whats wrong with that pizza? Looks pretty good

>>376046071
The underside of the dough is not cooked.

>>376046071
He asked for thin crust.

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>>376046071
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt8LflOyyhs

Sorry for your shit taste anon.

>>376041438
Wasn't that just a suggestion and not their actual plan?

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>>376036513

>>376027671
Ignore the shitty irrelevant dev and carry on.

>>376027671
Make it One hour instead.

>>376028128
well you dont get to the core of the actual fucking game and mechanics until 6 hours in

>/V/ is ok spending $10 on a 2 hour movie, but not on a 2 hour game

Explain

Are games only valued by playtime? Is No Mans Sky the most valuable game ever?

>>376027719

>I FUCKING HATE HAVING BASIC CONSUMER RIGHTS, IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF, FUUUUCK

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>>376027671
>Dev puts in secret exploit so 50+ hr game can be beaten in 10 seconds

>>376032735
It upsets me that people who say this sort of thing are unaware of how fucking dumb they are.

>>376040879
I can go return any movie BD I bought up to 14 days after buying it.

>>376027841
This. OP is a shit dev, he deserves the refund spam.

>>376047882
It's ok for a movie to be short because you're only consuming it passively. Nobody would expect you to sit there and watch a movie for 60 hours without any hope of participation in the medium. There's also the caveat that "time spent" is actually "time entertained" If you're playing a shallow game that doesn't entertain but drags on forever, that's not worth as much as your time as something that really grips you but lasts a much shorter time. If 2 hour indie games were as gripping as a well directed movie then people wouldn't be refunding them as much.

>>376027671
The Chinese Room just needs to ask for more gibs.
Or games could be subject to the real legal requirements of Australia and he could shit piss and blood, because Valve is being kind by comparison.

>>376027671
>developers stop complaining?

That's not a valid goal. Nobody gives a fuck what developers think about anything. Gaben has a monopoly. They'll use Steam or they'll all die. Fuck 'em.

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>Step 1
Remove refunds.

>Step 2
Make Demos mandatory.

As if consumers don't already have enough content out there to use for researching video game purchases I guess the only way you could further this is making game demos mandatory so that people can get hands on and test it themselves. I mean honestly people in this day and age should know what it is they are buying and whether or not they'll enjoy it, if they don't then that's their own fault and all these for funsies refunds shouldn't be allowed.

But hey whatever, demos for all games, if people buy it then there you go case closed, if they buy it without playing a demo or doing any basic research on the game for what it is or how it runs they are just outright fucking idiots and the world shouldn't have to slow down for them.

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>>376048030
remember
the copyright law will tell you what to do , buy one for every computer you use.
Anything else is like going to the store taking the disc and walking out the door
It's called stealing , thieving , taking what's not your
is that really where your want your life to go?

Dear Esther was good when it was a mod, I enjoyed it as an experience. Everything else they've made since was not good. I don't even mean the /v/ standard hyperbolic "it's shit!". No, I mean they were just not good.

A shame really as they seemed to show a lot of promise at first, and are now just anti-consumer. A shame.

>>376027719
Dear diary,
Today, first post was not best post

>>376047882
Goods are compared like against like.
Someone paying $10 for a movie ticket is actually renting space to engage in a social experience, often times with potential mates or their offspring. This space in turn licenses access to films, pays rent, pays for insurance, employs workers to clean and ensure only other ticket buyers have access to the resource, etc.

>>376027719

The only way I agree with you is under the assumption that removing refunds would allow better sales to come back.

I'm not completely sure if it's true, though.

Generally, refunds are a good thing. It's reasonable to place some limitations on refunds of digital goods, but the bottom line is that, if someone refunded your game, they didn't want it, and developers don't deserve money for tricking someone into buying a product they don't like.

People who don't like your game are getting refunds? Too bad. If you would otherwise make your living by telling unhappy customers to fuck off, then I don't care if you go out of business.

>>376027671

Just remove the 2-hour thing, and leave the 14-day period as is.

>>376051919

People who don't have jobs can 100% a game in two weeks. That's enough time for a NEET to become completely bored of a great game.

I really don't want to indirectly defend the shitty developers who whine about the two-hour refunds, or to imply that there's some kind of slippery slope here, but if people were allowed to have unlimited playtime for two weeks before getting a full refund, there would be a lot of people refunding perfectly good games just because they can. Under the current system, you're probably not going to refund a game unless you actually think it's shit.

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The refund system isn't even that bad. You can't get away with half of what people are dramatizing it to be. I know someone who bought NMS and couldn't get it refunded when the refund war was underway, despite being within the criteria.

I've had 2-3 games refunded (fuck Koei) and one rejected, only refunds were on full-priced games that I was genuinely disappointed in.

I don't see how devs think people who refund have some master ultimate plan, you've gotta sit around for a week sometimes to get that money back in the first place. And steam keeps track of your refunds. They'll deny the fuck out of you for trying to refund every week.

Prove me wrong.
Post your history showing the long list of refunds in a row. You fucking can't.

Should be allowed regardless, especially for early access games. You're paying to beta test and provide input to improve the game. If the devs aren't listening or you're unsatisfied, then there should be a refund at anytime.

not this fucking thread again

>>376027671
Stop posting the same screencap over and over and make original threads please.

>>376027671

>percentage of the game completed
>indie games will now give you a single (and the only) achievement at the start of the game so you 100% it on startup

wew

>>376027671
>game has a proper demo
>no refunds

>game has no demo
>allow refunds

there fixed.

>>376028205
This, some Early Access games are okay but early access as a whole is absolute cancer.

>>376053648
If only devs could learn from Darkest Dungeon

>>376053240
That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard. It's so easily abused. You also have to deal with the consequences. If you're stupid enough to blindly buy a game based on it's Steam page, then you deserve to lose that money. You certainly shouldn't have the right to avoid any sort of penalty.

>>376053573

No matter what the rule is, there will be some reason that it doesn't work for some games, or ways for some games to abuse it. You simply can't make everyone happy.

That's why Steam hasn't listened to all the requests to change the system. It's not really going to make a difference.

>>376053708
Fuck off shitty dev.

>>376053592

This is actually the best idea posted so far, but there's nothing to keep bad developers from releasing deceptive demos for their trash games. Imagine playing a demo, being impressed, and buying the game only to find out that it's just the demo with 5% more content.

Then again, Steam has been known to make sweeping exceptions to the refund rule for blatant scam games, like that one puzzle game which turned out to be impossible and everyone who ever bought it was allowed to get a refund.

>>376053794
he's probably a lolbertarian

>>376046071

Everytime this pic gets posted, there's this guy.
However, since your image is 10/10 and I fukken saved it, have a polite reply

The pizza in the picture is absolutely disgustingly greasy. Also, the crust is way too thick for a proper pizza, most certainly if you realise he ordered a 'thin crust' pizza. On top of that, the dough wasn't completely cooked.
But asides from all the shit that's wrong which you can't see at first glance, it still looks disgusting to people who know good pizza.

>>376053951
that's why I said proper demos.

Obviously there would need to be some quality control at Valve to determine if a demo is a valid representation of the full game or just an interactive bullshot

>>376054095
>there would need to be some quality control at Valve

Unfortunately that will never happen :^)

>>376051014
But Demos don't necessarily represent a game. You could make a fantastic demo but the rest of the game is shit. The Demo could be an entirely different game too.
The 2 hour policy is fair because you test the real game.
And making a demo has a cost for developers, taking focus away from the actual game.

>>376053765

I was just pointing out that the only ones who complain are people who are trying to scam you.

>>376054350
That's why it's just a dream. Just like Ricochet 2

>>376053708

>easily abused
Maybe it would demotivate a lot of scam early-access games that only get made to generate a quick buck and then be abandoned.
How many tales are there of early acces/kickstarter games that just get abandoned? I'd say customers get a free pas at refunding early access games. Or at least like a 50% refund.

>>376038132
>>Mmmm, delicious.

This is the part where you are wrong.

>>376050749
>If 2 hour indie games were as gripping as a well directed movie then people wouldn't be refunding them as much.

Thats what I mean though. If a 2 hour game is bad, the flaw isnt that the game is 2 hours, its that in those 2 hours it wasnt a good experience.

Way too many people complain about the wrong thing, and thats how we end up with all this procedurely genereated garbage to pad game length.

>>376051706
But as the end consumer, what goes into the product shouldnt concern you (unless youre being some kind of advocate).

Imagine that its a black box, you put $10 in, you get 2 hours of entertaiment out. If anything, the game is the better value here since you can replay it. You dont have to wait 6 months from release and pay double in order to re-exerience it.

If those 2 hours sucked, it would have sucked for 20 hours too AND wasted more of your time.

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>>376027671
Extend to 3 hours

>>376041508
from the moment Indie picked up

>>376027671
I would put all developers that complain in a gas chamber.

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>Worthless subhuman hipsters screaming and crying because they aren't big cool gaming rockstars like le Phil Fish.
>Worthless subhuman hipsters mad that people want an actual product instead of a university art project.

>>376044327
>/v/ is predominately anti corporate bullshit, hence jew/kike memes
>but /v/ is also predominately libertarian, loves trump/the right, which is all about letting them get away with bullshit

never understood this desu

>>376027671
arent those the faggots that developed "walking simulator 2: electric boogaloo"?

fuck those shitters

Can a steamcuck explain why Valve shouldn't need to offer a good refund/exchange service while consolefags have eBay/Craigslist/etc

>>376057185
Because the other choice is really that bad.

>>376039064
Same thing happened to me but they refuse to refund me because it took me a while to play it after purchasing, since I bought multiple games at once. I didn't even log 2 hours on it because the game breaks within like 30 minutes, towards what I assume to be the end of the tutorial. I just wanted to play Prototype 2.