What went wrong?

Growing pains.

John Romero's absence

>>376014093
Bethesda

Todd Howard

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?

>>376014093
D44M is fine even if riddled with some modern cancer. Its still one of if not the best shooter to come out in awhile.

Doom 3 is less a Doom game and more a Fear game honestly.

>>376014093
dark bullshit
dark bullshit everywhere

>>376016385
>D44M is cancer
ftfy

>>376014093

>NuDoom
>2015

Anyways, nothing went wrong, both Doom 3 and NuDoom are pretty good, just not a watershed moment in vidya like the original Doom was. Seems to me that Doom "fans" keep expecting to relive that moment of innovation within the series, and believe it had something to do with Doom's design (largely based on top down shooters like Asteroids and Robotron, and FPS gameplay which had already been explored in Wolf 3D) instead of Doom being a technological wonder and completely unlike any other game in 1993

Is this about grafics?

Technological peak was reached in 2007

>>376014184
what ever happened to Romeros kickstarter game?

>>376014093
nothing. Doom 2016 redeemed the franchise.

>>376014093
Went right. Absolutely everything. 3 was abomination

>>376016481
realized it wasn't going to succeed, took it down early to "build a demo", never heard from again.

>>376014093
Nothing

>>376015913

todd howard had nothing to do with d44m, hes a developer for bethesda game studios, they did not make it. it was produced by bethesda softworks but developed by id. you cant even grasp the difference between a producer and a developer so what makes you think you have any business voicing an opinion on it?

Play the new Prey if you want what doom 4 should have been. It's great with none of the consolized bullshit; like playing half life 1 again.

>>376014093
Streamlined progression to satisfy modern needs to feel accomplishment around each corner.

>>376014093
Nothing, Doom 4 was fantastic, a perfect blend of modern mechanics and classic controls.

>>376016503

>Tfw "Doom 3/RoE is bad" meme will never die

Both games are well-crafted, expertly paced, "honest" shooters in the vein of Quake 2 (slightly more railroaded and with no backtracking, but still). Shooters up to Doom 3's quality simply don't get made anymore, the game is like 10+ hours of well choreographed encounters and solid shooting

People give it shit because it tried to be "scary" and failed

Just recently I bought both Wolfenstein TNO and D44M, They're both the first games that I'd played in either franchise and both are a solid 9/10 but I prefer Wolfenstein a tad bit more.

Gonna go back and play both series through. I know where to start with Wolfenstein but how about Doom? As I understand it, there were a ton of versions of the first two games. Which is the best?

>>376016385
doom, doom 3 and doom 4 all make about equal leaps in how different they are and play.

I loved it

>>376016808
get the chocolate doom mod
its made to be as close to the original game as possible without any extra source port shit like mouse look

>>376016761
it drops trying to be scary and goes full action after the first few levels, at least I felt that way. The combat itself is built to be jumpy though.

>>376016873
I hope you mean vertical mouselook because mouselook was always a thing

>>376016808
>Just recently I bought both Wolfenstein TNO and D44M, They're both the first games that I'd played in either franchise

Jesus Christ

Best Wolf is widely held to be RtcW, and Classic Doom (The Ultimate Doom + Doom II) is what Doom's all about, with Doom 64 being a nice extension to that gameplay, as it were. If you're new to FPS you might have difficulty with RtcW, it can get quite challenging

>>376016873
>its made to be as close to the original game as possible without any extra source port shit like mouse look

You're gonna confuse him on account of the name of that feature, there's no mouselook vertically in Doom (3D mouselook, so to say), but you can look to the sides with the mouse

>>376016503
>3 was abomination
it's a hell of a lot better than the new one even if the levels are cramped and weapons are hit and miss, at least the movement was kept intact
>>376016873
chocolate is essentially the original experience without having to use dosbox, personally gzdoom with the appropriate settings is the way to go

>>376014093
Technology advances over time?

>>376014093
Nothing, Doom was always just a shitty version of heretic and hexen.

>>376014093
Compared to the shit out now DOOM4 was a masterpiece shooter.

>>376016434
Nigga I don't give a fuck about innovation, I just want a return to form in FPS level design. The last FPS that had that particular style and technique of level design was the fucking first Quake. In a modern game you get one of three things: open world, linear set piece-driven, or strings of isolated arenas.

>>376014093
you actually went through the effort of making that bait image and that's the saddest part

>>376016761
Doom 3 is a Half Life 1 ripoff

>>376017089
>it's a hell of a lot better than the new one even if the levels are cramped and weapons are hit and miss, at least the movement was kept intact

What the fuck do you even mean by that. The original was designed with keyboard in mind, with mouse already kind of breaking the thing. Doom 3 is entirely mouselook oriented and incomparably slower.

If anything, D44M is closer to the original just by being faster than D33M.

>>376017249

You could do much worse than ripping off HL1 2bh

>>376017256
the combat in 3 is closer to doom than doom 4 is.

>>376016808
>Preferring Wolfenstein TNO over Doom 4
I also played through both of them just a while ago and jesus christ the new Wolfenstein was pretty bad. NuDoom stayed pretty true to the originals and was fun to play, but I can't say the same for Wolfenstein. I didn't really like what they did to Blazkowicz either.

>>376017312

Depends entirely on the level you're playing.

In spirit though, D44M is more in line with the first two games. Sure, it's not the exact same thing - thank fucking god. A fast paced shooter today should not play like Doom 1 or 2. We have mice now.

>>376017089
>at least the movement was kept intact
you play as a literal toad in DOOM3 compared to D44M

>>376017256
>What the fuck do you even mean by that. The original was designed with keyboard in mind, with mouse already kind of breaking the thing.

Oh great, it's another one of these guys

Doom was 100% designed as mouse-first. In fact, Romero said that all level par times in Wolf 3D were set with the mouse + adding some second on top of it. In the fucking manual it tells you that mouse is the ideal way to play the game

As for "breaking it", I can tell you're a shitter who only plays Doom 1 and on UV tops, Nightmare is very difficult even with mouse, and IADI in Wolf 3D is hellish (Wolf 3D in general is harder than Doom, mouse doesn't "break" shit)

>>376017312
DOOM 3 has reloading
that alone makes it not DOOM

>>376014093
Someone made that shitty bait image.

>>376017256

Not only was Doom 100% meant for mouse, so was Wolfenstein 3D

That it supports kb aiming means nothing. So do Quake 1 to 4. The options is still there after all these years, you can play Doom 3 BFG with arrow key aiming

>>376017441
the reloading makes up for every enemy being weak as shit at least. I swear you can beat that entire game with just the shotgun.

>>376017363
The fact that TNO didn't emulate the originals is a GOOD thing, as Wolf3D is very archaic and dated. Definitely not a good source to emulate. But if talking about Rtcw, than both of them are nuWolfenstein, and as such TNO has no obligation to emulate it, just as nuDoom didn't emulate Doom 3

>>376017531
>you can beat that entire game with just the shotgun.
so, like doom 2?

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>>376017256
>The original was designed with keyboard in mind
nope it's even recommend to use a mouse in the manual
>D44M is closer to the original just by being faster than D33M.
no you completely miss the point of the movement and doom 3 is just as "fast" it's your own fault if you are playing it slow
>>376017390
you're an idiot the movement is identical to quake

>>376017596
Quake was never as slow as DOOM3

>>376017557
Yeah I agree on that, and didn't really mean that TNO should've gone the way of the original. I just would've preferred if it was just badass agent Blazkowicz doing Blazkowicz stuff instead of what we got. I didn't really feel all the cutscenes, the quest hub and love interest in it.

>>376014093
the target audience changed, each game was perfect.

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>>376017256
>>376017596

Will uninformed, angry anon ever recover?

In the subject of dumb Doom aphorisms people repeat like tools, "Doom is not 3D" has also been shot down, by Carmack of all people. It boils down to the game supporting movement across 3 axes of movement (lifts, ladders, etc.) even if the implementation does not allow for all kinds of "true" 3D transformations a la Quake 1. That sector hackery is used to simulate it is irrelevant, you can still see a Hellknight's fireball shooting diagonally down and missing an enemy due to overshooting it

>you realize that Doom 3 was the last game developed by Id as an independent studio
Feels bad man

>>376017596
>you're an idiot the movement is identical to quake
quake: air control, faster movement speed
doom 3: no air control. slower movement

>>376017764
Could've sworn Activision was the publisher of Doom 3

>>376017679
the only difference is doom 3 has that stupid sprint meter which doesn't matter since strafe jumping is free
>>376017765
quake 2/3 I mean I guess 4 as well even though it came after

>>376016638
>bethesda produced it
>he works at bethesda
you dumb kid?

>>376014184

they should hire him to redo the last three levels

still i enjoyed doom 4

>>376014093
Nothing.
DooM3 was a leapback to Doom1 considering how it used the dark atmosphere, trapdoors, claustrophobic spaces and fear.
DOOM was a leapback to Doom2 after seeing all that slaughter, destruction, powercreep and multiplayer arenas

>>376017724
I recommend The Old Blood for you

>>376017751
Doom 3 was pretty underwhelming, even back in the day. It was released at the same year as Half Life 2 and Far Cry, and didn't live up to either. It's only strong point were the graphics that still look good to this day, they were a glimpse of what games would look like in the future.
I remember that when Doom 3 was first presented on E3 back on 2001, no one believed it was real, graphics just couldn't look that good. Id was asked to prove that the game really did look that good.

>>376017424

So the diagonal strafing in addition to mouse movement for idiotic speeds is entirely intended, huh?

>>376017596
>keen 1 through 3
>ctrl+alt is the fire command

I'll never, ever fucking understand this. It's one of the most legendarily stupid control schemes out there. Except there's no legend about it because while Keen is well known for being an id product, very few people actually played the games beyond finishing the first level of Keen 4 for bragging rights.

>>376018185

What does that have to do with the game being designed for mouse play? The devs say it was, your word holds no weight in comparison

>>376016385
I enjoyed Doom 3 but I saw it more as "Doom: Side Story" than "Doom: Main Entry". Like what if you're just a regular grunt instead of Doomguy when Demons start fucking shit up.

>>376018282
you could always use a joystick though

>>376018169
01-07 was the period when graphical advances were what their target audience wanted.

I liked Doom 2016

>>376018440

I hate any kind of joystick or gamepad for platformers. Especially annoying is when a game is designed around it and expects you to use analog.

>>376018293

Fair enough, I didn't read the rest of the thread with sources that prove this.

>>376014093
>DOOM
>No mod support
>Can't disable glory kills
>Can't mod out the door lock
>Can't mod so that demons are actually on the map instead of just spawned in
A FUCKING LOT of things went wrong.

>>376018169
>I recommend The Old Blood for you
Funny you mention that since I bought Doom 3 BFG from a keyseller once and got The Old Blood instead (after complaining however I got what I bought, but of course got to keep Old Blood.)
How does it differ from the main game? More shooting less bullshit?

>>376017249
Half-Life is just a Doom 1 ripoff.

>>376018543
>More shooting less bullshit?
Pretty much. There's still some stealth segments(which all but like 2, are entirely optional, and you can just go guys should blazing), and the game isn't bogged down by a mediocre story being shoved in your face, for far too long. It's got context and some story moments, but SO much less than TNO. And I'd say it's ever so slightly better written too, for what it is.

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I dunno, but modded Doom 3 looks almost as good as D44M

Thanks consoles

You move too slow in D44M.

>>376018543
It has this
>I just would've preferred if it was just badass agent Blazkowicz doing Blazkowicz stuff

>>376018595
The thing is that it's possible to mention PLENTY of things that Doom 3 copied from HL, but enlighten us, what things HL1 copied from Doom aside from being a shooter and having a shotgun?

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>>376018709

>sikkmod

>>376018843
>what things HL1 copied from Doom aside from being a shooter and having a shotgun?

The whole plot about teleporter experiments leading to extra-dimensional beings invading and fucking shit up.

>>376016761
I always loved doom 3 , scared the shit out of me and was good complementary release next to HL2

>>376018709

There's nothing wrong with how D44M looks. And it's optimized very well, meaning you can max it out and still expect great framerates which is important for high refresh rate monitors.

I didn't get a sense that D44M is held back by technology at all.

>>376018941

Jesus christ. This was clearly tongue-in-cheek. Half Life intentionally took a familiar concept but turned it on its head by adopting a far more realistic approach and in that way, subverted expectations. If you were there when it was released, this would make sense for you.

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>>376018690
>>376018843
Hmm, think I'll give it a shot then.

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if I could marry a game it would be DOOM

>>376014093
People who can't tell the difference between a developer and a publisher.

>>376014093
Doom 3 I guess? But Nu-DOOM is amazing so it made up for it

>>376019332
>easy mode

>monster drop health
>blood effect so real
>damage indicators
>demons stagger so you can gaykill them

It's cancer, you wish to marry a cancer patient.

>>376017424
>In the fucking manual it tells you that mouse is the ideal way to play the game
the quote is to "use the mouse AND keyboard"

>>376014093
>The 1% chance that this person is unironically defending Doom3
Play it again. It's nowhere near as fun as you remember.

>>376019471
Umm, ok? None of those things make it a bad game, just things you dont like.

>>376019539

Well, you need to move also

>>376019046
you're right it's held back by shit game design

>>376014093
nothing went wrong you fucking faggot

>>376019612
Every one of those things are things that make that "game" not DOOM.

>>376019617
middle mouse button

>>376019471
You're a flaming homosexual. The fact that enemies drop health and glory kills are a crucial game mechanic makes NuDoom feel like a first-person, 3D Hotline Miami with production values out the ass. Don't stop moving, don't stop killing. If you don't like that you basically enjoy having cocks shoved up your ass and any further argument from you is equivalent to you spitting up cum basically.

>>376016385
>Doom 3 before flashlight patch
Turkey Puncher.

>people now think Doom 3 is good

I fucking hate this board and its contrarian shit.

what will the 2026 game look like?

>>376019659
Ok, its not Doom then. Its Moom. I really dont care about labels but if you need that to make you happy I fixed it for you.

>>376017531
>Shotgun
Try the flashlight.

What went wrong is that videogames became popular. Obviously anything popular is Chad and normie-tier Facebook reeeeeeeeeeeee stop ruining my hobby literal cancer.

OP, I hope for your sake that you're 15. Because if you're a grown-up and you're this butthurt about sequels changing things and becoming popular, you are a gigantic faggot.

>>376019693
>makes NuDoom feel like a babby-needs-handholding-mid-fight first-person
Yes.

>pukes out anon's first day at ad hominem school
Asperger's and ADHD has been hard for you hasn't it?

>>376019659
Wait, is Doom not Doom? All the time I was playing Doom I thought I was playing Doom, but Doom is in fact another game that is not Doom because some retard on the internet doesn't like the fact that it's not 1993 anymore. Should I get in touch with Id and let them know? They'll be so embarrassed.

Doom 2016 was really good fun especially the levels in hell

>>376019890
>Blargleblargle oh please yes daddy give me your cock agai- blargle urrmmph
What did he mean by this?

>>376019332
>movement's so slow you're forced to take damage

>>376017571
More like every Doom game

>>376019636
Yes
It looks pretty and runs well, but there are so many flaws
Like that fucking glory kiill bullshit, those "youre locked in a room and a few waves of enemies spawn" segments, weapon upgrades,...

>>376020127
>Not knowing about the shitty Doom 3 shotgun
It was one of the worst ever made

>>376014093
All 3 are good in their own ways.

It's not often someone lost this bad at arguing as >>376019947
But then again young people are stupid by default.

>>376014093
Like all of them but Doom 3 took the wrong path. Doom 2016 is pretty good but it's hard to beat thw classic.

Hopefully in 30 years when computers and systems are better, someone can take Doom 2016 and make it like classic modding with large enemy counts and gigantic levels.

Basically, Doom 2016 is a long term investment.

>>376019890
>Asperger's and ADHD has been hard for you hasn't it?
pot, meet kettle

IT TAKES UP FUCKING 80GB

Retardation >>376020243
Meet Pot >>376019693, and Kettle >>376019947

>>376020232
>but Doom 3
>doom 3
>not the wrong path
>taking a fast paced action shooter and turning it into a slow paced horror game with a goddamned flashlight mechanic
>not the wrong path

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The classic levels are really tough but a lot of fun. Barrels become essential.

>>376020231
You made the mistake of thinking your dumbass "argument" was worth validating with an actual refutation. Hurr I don't like glory kills, game is basically a cinematic movie on par with TLOU.

>>376014093
Kept releasing DLC for a multiplayer that only three people played after launch instead of making a new single player campaign. Also snapmap is way too restrictive and a terrible replacement for mods.

>>376020430
im still disappointed they dont use the 2D sprites for the classic enemies. using the modern ones is really unbalanced for many areas

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the detail in the models is impressive

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>>376017249
>Half Life
>not System Shock

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>>376020567

>>376020557
I was having a really fucking hard time with it but you just have to be extra careful, know when to charge in and retreat. It plays differently than the sp and I love it, wish they did more than a few levels and it allowed for pistol starts.

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>>376019471

>monsters kill each other, don't even have to intervene
>bloody face so real
>screen flashes when you get hit
>demons move entirely predictably so you can gaykill them

It's cancer you dfsersf blah blha

>>376020785
you're going to give him a sezure, shitpost overload.

>>376020426
What? I literally said that Doom 3 was wrong.

>Like all of them but Doom 3 took the wrong path.

Doom 3 had some cool elements but in terms of the Doom series, it was bad, real bad.

Doom 2016 got it right. Still need more modding though.

Doom 2016 was fantastic, but just shy of being awesome.

> Movemrnt speed a tad too slow, the speed you moved at using the rune that sped up for a few seconds after a glory kill was perfect
> Levels got worse as they went on, first level was fully open and had no locking doors, next few levels were also mostly well designed (Foundry was great for non linearity). But endgame and especially Hell Levels were completly linear pipes with square arenas. The final level is just 5 firefights and walking to the next one.
> Glory kill system is flawed. Health should not be given out based on how much you need it, but rather the strength of the enemy. Glory killing an Imp should give 5-10hp no matter if you are at 5% or 90%. A Baron of Hell should always give a much larger amount.
> finding tokens to buy upgrades is silly. Why not just hide the gun upgrades as items in the levels? And make Doomguy start with all the armour upgrades. Make the spare secrets collectable concept art or silly "cheats" or something.

>how is doombabby formed

born mid-90s, grew up on cod and halo on xbl, is memeing about doom now since he found this board and thinks he's special for playing a game that every faggot ever played back in the day. he believes this gives him 'gamer cred' and makes him 'hardcore' when it's really no big deal and doom isn't even a difficult game. appears to be lonely and friendless irl too, seeing as he spends most of his time circle jerking in this shitty general filled with shit tier reddit humour a la your post and >>376019471. is also fucking TERRIBLE at doom and other retro fps, can't play modern community wads on UV or higher, goes into other threads for other fps's and cries that they play differently from doom. can also be found on /v/ occasionally memeing about doom, making obnoxious threads asking other morons why they haven't played it (some of whom eventually find their way here and become the same faggot described). doesn't think for himself either and parrots whatever the meme consensus happens to be at the time he's making the post.

all in all, a highly cancerous individual and an abject tumour in the timeline of doom's history. doom babbies were a mistake. you know those 15 year old stoners that start smoking weed and feel the need to tell everyone about it? that's a good analogy for a doom babby.

>>376020463
You're starting to look desperate.
You're already on the 2nd part of 7 stages of greif.

>>376020785
So where is the gaykilling in that game? There's no staggering that makes demons wait for you to instant melee kill them.
There's no damage indication that points in the direction monsters hurt you, there's no blood on the screen when you get hurt.
Try again retard.
>>376020942
Yes, all he did shitpost, not factposting.

NuDOOM is made for the new generation that lack skill patience and tactic.

>>376021018
>born in mid-90s
Post discarded.
Underage, go play with toddler toys and new generation handholding games.

>>376020968
>finding tokens to buy upgrades
both this and the power cells is what i hate the most about nuDoom

played quake last week and its so much better to start with "full stats" and just run and gun without any upgrades

could be even better if nuDoom had proper NG+

>>376020968
>> Glory kill system is flawed. Health should not be given out based on how much you need it, but rather the strength of the enemy. Glory killing an Imp should give 5-10hp no matter if you are at 5% or 90%. A Baron of Hell should always give a much larger amount.

Jesus christ, this.

Also, I wouldn't mind a difficulty setting that substitutes glorykilling for a different mechanic. You can't whittle down every enemy's health to a point where they can be glorykilled. Instead, Something like a cooldown ability that you can't you use often that allows you to tag enemies you want to be glorykilled, but instead of having to glory kill them, you can use any weapon. But since this is so similar to how chainsaw works, perhaps remove glorykilling altogether and now you have to rely on the chainsaw entirely.

>>376020968
My problem with it is all runes and 90% of suit upgrades are bullshit that just make the game easy by the end of it. Play without them and the game becomes intense as all fuck yet fair. And I actually like the combat of the game a lot, so levels that exist to facilitate it aren't a negative for me. In between arenas in the last level is resource gathering, an ambush alternate path, platforming with combat, interactives, and of course secrets. I recently played Wolfenstein the Old Blood and that game literally has sections that are just combat arena, press E on thing, combat arena. DOOM does not do that.

>>376021217
Thank you for confirming my suspicions all along doombabby.

So I tried to play the first doom and why is it so shitty? The aim sensitivity is slow

>>376021248
Its probably because both Doom and Quake can be beaten in under five hours, which is largely considered unacceptable for today. So they added upgrades I assume to keep interest through a longer length.

>>376021397
>Didn't bring an argument, just a shitpost with no facts.
Thanks for confirming you're shit at games that don't hold your hand.

>>376021485
>ablooabloobloo
;_; doombabby sad? awwww

>>376021445
A short single player campaign is forgiven if the game has a strong multiplayer component, i.e. every cawadooty ever made. It's not the case for nuDoom

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>>376021018
top fucking post

>>376021217
>Try again retard.

k

>don't even need to aim vertically, game aims for you
>monsters blatantly visible at all times, sticking like a sore thumb from simple geometry
>can just run past majority of enemies in the game, don't even need to shoot
>multiple hitscan monsters

>>376021540
Do mimicing your own retarded noises make you feel better?

>I'll just reply with brain dead noises and comments to make it look like I won the argument by calling him a doombabby
millenials and younger sure are easy to entertain when don't even have standards.

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>>376021705
Daily reminder that neo /v/ = doom babbies.

Pic related. A /v/oom babby before he jumped onto the Doom bandwagon.

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>>376021657
>mfw I like Sp, Mp, and Snapmap
feels good.

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>>376021705

Thread:
nuDOOM went wrong

Argument:

>>376021703
>don't even need to aim vertically, game aims for you
Engine limitations
>monsters blatantly visible at all times, sticking like a sore thumb from simple geometry
Engine limitations
>can just run past majority of enemies in the game, don't even need to shoot
Freedom, unlike DOOR LOCKED muh spawning demons
>multiple hitscan monsters
git gud.

nuDOOM doesn't have engine limitations when it comes to it's glaring faults like door locks, spawning enemies, and that it can't have more than 12 demons on the screen at the same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss8SyOhqk1I

>>376021770
Underage, pls...
You're to obvious
>Playing HALO
You're not even trying.

Typical nuDOOM AI, AKA no skill AI that screams come and gaykill me, I'm waiting and I won't attack for another few seconds.
i.4cdn.org/wsg/1493992618186.webm

/Argument

/Thread

Replies to this post that complain or disagrees are proof of kids today with no skill or standards.

>>376022653
>doom babby humour
god, the rebbit. it hurts.

>>376014093
It tried to be Wolfenstein TNO

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>>376022653

>>376022653
Health went from 86 to 79, as if anyone needed more proof that webm isn't on nightmare and you're shitposting.
>numeme
>/threading yourself
This post reeks of reddit trying to fit in.

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>>376022653
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss8SyOhqk1I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q19sVKcAqIw

>>376023081
Thats weird, where is all the hitscan, cover, reloading, aim down sights, cutscenes, and sprint that disables shooting?

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>>376022653
>Engine limitations
engif lififafiofs
>Engine limitations
engif lififafiofs
>Freedom, unlike DOOR LOCKED muh spawning demons
bleeblob unflayf DOOF LOFFED muh spawnif debloobs
>git gud.
glib glob

>>376014093
>depth of field
pls turn that shit off nigger

>>376021879
0/10 you can actually see what's going on.

>>376018356
this sounds about right.

>>376017951

Underage kids like you unironically believe that todd howard single handedly develops, produces, tests and markets every game with bethesda's name on it, dont you?

>What went wrong?

Tried to cater to weebs with "lol so arcade'like gameplay XD"

That's not what doom is.

the worst part about DOOM (201X) are the grenades.
I always forgot I had them in normal play and they deal pathetic damage

>>376014093
Graphics got better, it happens nigga

>>376020212
that shotgun handled business though.

>>376019471
>demons stagger so you can gaykill them
This was a thing even on Doom. You are so full of shit.

>>376027965
Sounds like you have some damn impressive proof then.

Mind showing a DOOM/DOOM2 video where you glory kill a monster that stands still in a stagger animation?

>>376020212
>>376027802
Once you learned how to use it it became quite efficient. You had to sprint up to a nigga and shove the shotgun into their mouth before firing.

I mean not a whole lot? Not that I remember at least? Its been a while since I played but shit I had fun.
Multiplayer was kinda hindered with no CTF at first and the demon power ups but I pumped a good few Friday nights into it.
Single player was fucking GODLIKE I just wish the bosses didnt all appear at the end I wish they would have scattered some into the early parts of the game.

>theres people that hate any of the doom games
They are all good. Everyone.