>Dota 2 has a multiplayer campaign Neat

>>375982003
I think you mean
>valve adding a lot of models ready to be used for WC3 remake

>>375982003
Too bad no one plays DOTA anymore :/

>>375982003
wat is this

>>375982003
You mean
>Valve spends money and manpower adding shit nobody asked for but not fixing the issues that have plagued the game for literal years
Eric, truly eric

>>375982003
Neat.

Too bad about the main game mode being worthless to play though. It's the Valve game curse: initially good then inevitably Valve's continuous development fucks it up.

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>>375982003
Yeah, now remove the shrines, bring back the old tower models, make the jungle spawn every min not 2,return to only 2 runes at river, remove talent trees.

>>375984269
Yeah that's the way I feel too. I'd reinstall the game immediately if they reverted most of the changes they made in the 7.00 update.

It's a shame the Dota community is a bunch of yes-men and Icefrog cultists, so that'll never happen.

>>375984887
It's not nearly as bad as you two make it seem. Were those the changes I think the game needed? I don't think so. But plenty of other shit is right with the game, the new stuff really isn't that problematic.

>>375983280
>plagued the game for literal years
>game has only grown in popularity

really gets the noggin' joggin'

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>MOBAs

>>375985525
>people have shittaste
Ranked matchmaking has had issues for years, account buyers have been an issue for years, and have gotten progressively worse too, the peru menace has been an issue for years as well

The game "growing" in popularity means it's more popular with the lowest common denominator, while most of the people quitting the game are past the 5k mmr milestone, that truly gets the noggin' joggin' doesn't it

>>375985628
The term is Dota-likes

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>>375985525
>game has only grown in popularity

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHH
HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA

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>>375982003
CSGO and ASSFAGGOTS are the cancer killing steam.

Once this doturd shit dies maybe Valve will go back to making something meaningful for once

>"competitive game"
>has RNG
Heh.

>>375986515
it's already died. 7.00 literally killed dota 2. I can't see myself ever going back.

>>375986473
Isn't that just when most people are sleeping?

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>>375986706
Yeah, people sleep for months at a time

Dumbass

>>375982003
Why is Dota so much better than HOTS? It's fucking embarrassing how bad HOTS is in comparison.

>>375985041
The changes are terrible, and I personally have no desire to be part of Icefrog (or rather, Valve)'s wild and retarded ride.

You're right to say that a lot of the gameplay elements in Dota are still good. Itemization is still far above another other game in its genre, for example. But the game's development has been a shitshow ever since 7.00, and you should be worried about that, because this is the development philosophy you will see for the foreseeable future, which you yourself seem to admit you would not like. Maybe at the moment, when only a fraction of the game has been fucked up, you can deal with it. What about in another year? You can bet they'll have fucked up even more game mechanics. Will you still be fine with the state of the game then?

>>375986706
That shows stats over months...

>>375986473
Honestly, when considering the goal of 7.00's changes (i.e. making the game more appealing to new players), even stalling in popularity should be considered a failure.

>>375984269
The only reason they made camps spawn on odd numbered times is because they decided to add two fucking ancient camps for each team.

>>375985628
what hapen to that dog?

>>375982003
>no patch
>just more shekel-draining trash

Is this patch going to last all the way to TI? Please no.

>>375986473
it's not that funny, bruh. shit meme

>>375986984
I doubt that was the goal, it was already too much to learn and they did nothing to ease that. They just added way more shit to learn. If talents didn't exist I would somewhat agree.
Down the line, talents should 100% only be spells. Anything about movespeed, respawn, gpm etc is fucking cancer or just shit.

It didn't plummet too much, but the game basically hit its ceiling for players much like CSGO. These games can't really reach any new audiences.

>>375987354
Probably be a new patch just before qualifiers, or after the roster locks are closed.

>>375982132
kek this rumor has been going for like 4 years now

>>375987161
Well it's not just that. It has the other significant effect of nerfing stacking itself, since you need two stackers (either players or player-controlled monsters) to achieve the same results.

Nerfing it because a couple of heroes like Sven were too good at abusing it is Riot-tier balancing though.

I have no issue with the concept of talents but the way 90% of them were implemented was lazy as fuck. They should only be bonuses to the hero's skills, not this +420 GPM -30s respawn time garbage. And now we're in this awful situation where heroes that really need to be buffed or nerfed only have their talent trees slightly tweaked. No amount of number tweaks to Broodmother's talents will change the fact that she is fundamentally a shit hero and needs some serious love. And it doesn't matter if you lower it by a few seconds or change its level requirement, respawn talents are pure bullshit and should not be in the game.

Warcraft 3 is going to have an HD version, will probably be the final nail.

That said if Blizzard goes full retard and makes people start from scratch instead of porting maps since they will be the same game just a new makeover, Warcraft 3 HD customs will probably never see a revival

7.00 was epic because my play style is literally roaming around the map saving people and warding

my mmr went up from 3600 to 4200 after 7.00

>>375986278
The term is ASSFAGGOTS

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>>375986706
>>375986984
>>375987413
Here, let me do you guys in denial a favor.

Here's today's update. Stats don't lie.

>>375987503
It probably was the goal of the HUD remake. They don't explicitly say it, but it can be inferred from how they presented the changes: things like highlighting "One-Click Level Up" (can you really say that there is a player that clicks on the hud to use or level spells deserves anything above 2k, if he isn't new?) or the "Upgrade to Flying Courier" button (which clashes with their "reduced footprint" meme, especially considering it's a button each team uses *once* per game).

From there, while you're right to say talents add a lot of stuff to memorize, when you consider the reception of the talents by all kinds of shitters from Totalbiscuit to Day9 the 2k wonder, the same point comes up: stat levels were boring and talents are way betterer and meaningfuller. Besides, it's not like boring binary choices are anything new to game design, that's what Bioware has been doing for over 10 years.

>>375988445
Man, Dota lost over 200k peak players from April 2016? Awesome.

Also my point was that considering the extent of 7.00 changes, anything but an increase in player numbers should be considered a failure.

>>375982003
>$10 or else you can't even play it
Now that's a cancerous kind of jewery. What went wrong with Valve?

Now where did all these HotS shills come from I wonder?

>>375986473
>2016
>march, april, and may decrease
>2017
>march, april, and may decrease
why is that?

>>375989323
probs tournys

>>375989089
>Also my point was that considering the extent of 7.00 changes, anything but an increase in player numbers should be considered a failure.

Ok we're actually in agreement then, sorry 'bout that

>>375989323
If you look at the cutoff in the second image, the playerbase actually gained during may 2015

Valve has been running Dota 2 horribly wrong ever since last year

>>375989314
OW fags and lel kids

>>375989424
oh

>>375989747
I don't know much about dota or any assfaggots, I saw that picture and it caught my attention how those months matched their downwards trend on both years, how was it in 2015?

>>375989841
It's fucking pathetic.

>>375989865
>how was it in 2015
Dota was still fun and didn't feel like a chore to play. It also ran better and they didn't ruin the in-game HUD yet

>>375988445
...?

Avg players is the same it was in april 2015

>>375991718
It's a very significant decline from just one year ago (roughly a 20% player loss).

This means the player drop is vastly outpacing the player gain, and that is extremely telling when you consider that until the end of last year, the game was growing (highest average was in August, and the highest peak players was in October 2016).

People who looked at it more than me would know for sure, but that kind of player loss usually worsens and eventually (although not soon) turns into game death

>>375984269
change back every thing to what it was before rubberbanding was introduced and ill start playing again in a heart beat

>>375986473
honestly when you hit 1 mill does .1 or .2 really matter?

>>375989938
You should be used to dumb fanboys by now. I can tolerate Dotards only because they are self-aware about their awful genre in a real and non-ironic manner.

>>375992772
A 20% loss is always significant.

>>375982003
game still sucks

>>375992946
I guess, but the game iwll still go for another 8 years probably.

I mean i know we were all right about shitting on the past few patches but it wont change anything, they wont set things right with a big "sorry about that guys" patch. At least we can be smug that we were right

>>375993152
Oh for sure, Dota 2 is too big to die quickly.

I'm really glad their shitty gambit to attract new players failed and that it's hurting their bottom line, though.

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>>375989314
>>375989841
"shill" I played DotA for almost an entire fucking decade, don't you retarded pieces of nigger shit try to call me a shill for calling valvo out on their bullshit

>>375984269
>>375984887
>>375985041
>>375986807
My theory is that IceFrog isn't on the Dota 2 team/project anymore. That's why you don't see any professional players or community figures really talk about him anymore, and that's why so many dramatic changes to the game have been made since 7.00.

There are 3 VR-ready projects being developed at Valve right now [1]; most likely their next generation of FPS's for the next Orange Box style product they're going to release for PC and current gen consoles.

It is 100% guaranteed that one of them is a multiplayer-first/esports-first minded game, that needs IceFrog's mad genius for game design/balance. It is clear that he is not working on Dota 2 anymore with the direction the game has gone in.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMpQWSqQFK0

>>375987192
It smelled a flash drive with LoL

>>375995023
thats pretty much guaranteed

>>375994038
i was 7k hours in and i feel your pain. I understand

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>>375982003
>Dota 2 got one before TF2
Mildly upset

>>375985628
Some of them are fun.

>>375987938
>saving people
>not killing people
for real though, roaming and vision control is my favorite part of dota.

>>375995023
>It is 100% guaranteed that one of them is a multiplayer-first/esports-first minded game
I don't believe so. A multiplayer & esports oriented VR game would be a complete failure for a variety of reasons and I don't believe Valve is that stupid. Their initial projects will more likely be killer apps that make use of the increased ~immersion~ of VR, and I don't think a competitive multiplayer VR would be a good idea.

I agree that Icefrog doesn't head the development of Dota anymore (at most he gives his opinion on balance changes), and he left either because he was pushed out because of office politics (which is unlikely since he has way too much importance in the Dota community) or because he's just tired of working on the game (and after working on it 10 years, I can understand if that's the case).

>>375996303
yeah, but i think its really fucking lame if he leaves and doesnt say anything. I dont want to play reddits balanced dota i want to play icefrogs dota, and they should have respected that.

>>375996775
I agree. I think Dota is the only good game in its genre, and the reason for that is that ARTS games are tricky to balance and a very different beast from other genres (lots of systems and how they work with each other). Dota was good because Icefrog had a good feeling for it, but no one else at Valve does.

I also get why Valve wouldn't have announced it if Icefrog had left: look at how many shit changes people will accept because they "trust in Icefrog". You can bet 7.00 would have had a very negative reception if Icefrog's name wasn't attached to it.

>>375997312
I've played the game for a decade, and none of the new patches were the reason I quit, think about that for a moment. I literally quit because I had enough of Valve's shit

>>375994038
You could have learned three languages.

What should I name my toon?

>>375992930
>I can tolerate Dotards only because they are self-aware about their awful genre in a real and non-ironic manner.

They do? Because they're worse than meleefags are for their game

>>376000724
I actually don't really care to learn more languages, and if I was young again I would spend that entire decade playing doter again, no joke

>>375982003
>campaigns in MOBAs
what the fuck is the point

>>376003908
DARK LIGHT

wait dota2 has talent trees now? that sounds dumb as fuck. is it like lol stats like +1% crit and stuff?

>>376004086
Nah it's on the complete opposite end with stupid shit like +120 damage on Lich, PA double daggers, ++mana regen on Windranger (because lol why would you have to manage mana or itemize for mana regen that's anti-fun)

As a rule the level 10-15 talents are boring shit and the level 20-25 talents are game breaking.

>>376004217
what the fuck were they thinking reee

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>>376004341
DUDE, RIGHTCLICK CARRY LICH AND DARKSEER LMAO.

>>376004341
Hey man it got TotalBiscuit and Day9 the 2k wonder's seal of approval! Good changes.

>>375986214
Authentication is in which is cutting down on smurfs, matchmaking looks for people based on geography, jungle is being returned to 1 min spawns with 75% of the old xp/whatever% gold. Shrines wont activate till the 5min mark and are getting a massive nerf to their healing and mana.
Also Icefrog is still a thing because the testers report to him and be has direct convos over steam with them still.

>>375983989
>It's the Valve game curse: initially good then inevitably Valve's continuous development fucks it up.

This is practically true for nearly any F2P game though, not just Valve.

>>375982003
Hard to believe I wasted 3k hours on that game and that's what it became. Great times, but I'm glad I quit at 7.00 I believe, looks like things have seriously gone downhill.

>>375994038

>play for a decade
>only 5k mmr

kek

>>376005578
>implying that playing 7 years of wc3 made you any good
Ever heard of garena? I was 3.3k mmr when ranked came out, I wasn't particularly good, and I also wasn't fond of doing fotm shit, I mostly fucked around, I mean, you would have noticed with the four fucking hundred ogre magi games you dumb nigger

>>376004954
I was getting an account buyer in every second game back in the day, whether it was my team or enemy, is that actually getting fixed?

>>375986792
So much better they thought a horribly implemented version of HoTS' design with talents and shrines was the next step. It's pretty hilarious they failed so miserably in a shameless copy of a fucking Blizzard game.

>>375982003
Everyone's shitposting about the game, but what actually is this? Is theere an announcement about it?

>>376005969
>Everyone's shitposting about the game

Anon, it's not shitposting when the game is actual shit now

>>376006021
It's shitposting. Fuck off.

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>>376006037
Its gameposting.

>>375986278
i love you.

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>>376004551
>thinking lich is ever going to get to that level unless it's your shit tier 2k bracket games much less do anything after chain frost and two q casts evaporate his mana pool
>dark seer having a choice to not hit like a wet noodle farming jungle camps is also bad

it's a wonder dota lost people like you when they actually make it easier for you while also changing completely nothing

>>376005969
Yeah, it's on the T7 battlepass page and it's battlepass exclusive so get fucked if you don't want to waste money on that shit game

>>376005847
>hots invented talent trees
Sure buddy

>>376005847
>failed

works on my machine

>>376007301
It somehow doesn't work on 20% of the former playerbase.

Really weird.

>>375995023
Icefrog left a while ago you mong.

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>>376007408
You recycling shitposting, buddy? Drive in from stupid town?

>>375982003
Can you sell shit that drops from Battle Pass?

>>376006382
I was getting excited then my hopes and dreams were crushed.

Fuck.

But an actual campaign mode would be neat. Playing all the hero's backstories and getting tips on how to play the hero.

>Ah, the Mighty Zerg. Whose slaves are you this week I wonder?

Where the fug is my Alarak announcer? He's the only one I truly want.

>>375986473
>only post the part that suits you, and not the whole cycle

Its climate change denial all over again.
Post for a few years, you see there are months where it goes down, and months where it goes up.

>>376007682
I was just in that thread.

Alarak's pretty cool!

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>>376007991
Fuck, wasn't paying attention.

>>375989303
Its a cheap DLC for a free game.

>>376007461
Replying an insult to a mockery based on actual data only serves to make you look stupid. But then the anime picture would have done that either way.

However Gaben does thank you for your service.

everything after ti3 patch has been a disappointment, but the shrines were the most of them all. i didn't expect to quit dota because of something like this

>A FEATURE I DIDN'T ASK FOR WAAWAWWAW FUCK DOTA AND FUCK VALVE I QUIT
I don't even play Dota and some of you fucks in this thread are just pathetic.

>>376009075
Having some backbone and not letting the developer treat you like his bitch would do both you and your favorite games some good, you know.

>>375986278
this dude knows what's up

the shitty term MOBA originally appeared from the FAQ of LoL because they didn't want to sound like a copycat. everyone using that term just fell for the LoLbabby meme

>>376007682
>week
A completely alien, super-advanced race uses the same time measurements as humans. Quality Blizzard writing, as usual.

>>376009220
ah yes because aliens speaking English makes sense

>>376009220
Shut up Alarak.

What substantive arguments, if any, are there for why the talents and shrines are bad for the game?

It makes the game more action packed, leveling less boring for characters that don't have farm etc.

>>375995023
this is the most retarded /v/-level uninformed speculation i've read in a while
amateur, one-game designers are not well rounded game designers and don't necessarily perform well outside of their one game, or even when you remove all restrictions like the move from WC3 Dota to Dota 2. What you're seeing just is Icefrog trying to design outside the boundaries he's accustomed to. He may have been good and balance tweaks and slow, incremental improvement but that doesn't make you good at large game design projects

>>376009220
You accepted that aliens exist and that they can talk with their minds, yet you can't imagine them using the concept of 'weeks'?

DOTA2 feels clunky (compared to LoL), the long stun durations feel terrible, there is a lot of burden of knowledge, and they outright use different controls in the tutorial than they do in the actual game.

But, DOTA2 is slowly "LoL-izing" the game. I like how they've completely remade the interface to look like LoL and how they put Roshan's spawn over by where LoL's Baron Nashor spawns.

Maybe DOTA2 will be worth playing in a year or two.

>>376009439
this
icefrog didn't even make dota, just refurbished it into something playable

>>376009436
shrines make the game less action packed, because the map is way more safe
not sure about the talents, probably just dotards crying about something new being something bad

>>376009526
>DOTA2 feels clunky (compared to LoL), the long stun durations feel terrible, there is a lot of burden of knowledge
If you're a lol player don't even bother trying to talk about dota, you just look like a retard

>>376009591
How's that for certain? People don't have to go back to base as often, which means there are more chances for clashes. If you catch people outside of the range of shrines there's no way he's getting to it and activating it.

>>376009714
if you get ganked you run to a shrine and heal, makes lanes a hell of alot safer

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>>376009672
Yeah. Whatever, dude.Your game doesn't have a single interesting-to-play technical character in the entire cast.

Your game is just about perma-cc'ing and then attacking the completely immobilized foe. I'm sure you're such a talented Axe player!

>>376009793
>your game
lol tribalism
if you want to play a mechanically demanding game go play starcraft, or a fighting game, or maybe you could even play one of the micro heroes in dota but it's not really the point seeing it's more of a strategy game than anything else

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>>376009793

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>>376009672
>burden of knowledge
what the fuck is this?

>>376009793
>A skillshot, a slow and a steroid that gets applied to every third hit makes for a technical character, that's why 80% of the League of legends cast have the same exact abilities
>""""""mechanics""""""
LMAO

>>376009793
>clicking on the ground
>technical

>>376009202
>>376006229
>not AoS clones

>>376009964
something lol designers constantly complain about in dota despite the fact that learning to play league of legends is also 90% burden of knowledge

>>376010054
Why call it burden? Constantly learning new things is what's fun about Dota

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>>375992556

it really depends on what percentage of those people are still buying items and watching tournaments. Because last i checked the viewerbase for Dota has actually been growing despite the player numbers stagnating/shrinking.

>>375989323
school/exams

>>375993706

7.00 was a pretty lazy way to attract new players if that was indeed the case. They only added more things to keep track of and made no attempt to really advertise the game anywhere. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't want Valve to turn into Riot or Blizzard when it comes to these awful PR videos with le down to earth developers giving runthroughs of the stuff they're working on but attracting new players requires actually reaching out to them and encouraging them to get involved, not just making changes and expecting new people to read through 50 pages of patch notes.

>>376009787
If the gank was done properly, then there is no healing because the target is dead.

What kind of players are you playing with that decide not to gank anyone because they are expecting the person to get away?

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>>376009436

The game was already action packed before shrines, however with shrines the lategame turns into absolute shit because breaking highground becomes even harder than it was before. Even if you remove the shrines in base you still have a problem of mistakes and outplays not mattering as much. Get shat on in mid? Not good enough at jungling? Oh well, just go to the shrine and your missplays wont be as devastating.

Talents range from really boring inconsequential stuff to absolutely gamebreaking dumb shit and also mean you cant level up stats anymore which ends up restricting a lot of playstyles. Then there are talents which encourage a really specific style of play and make it far too obvious and easy to play that style. Giving 200+ dmg to a support so they can play a carry is unnecessary when the game has always had heroes who can sometimes play a core or sometimes play as a support. It wasn't that long ago that we had support Alch and support Wraith King for fucks sake. I've played so many games as a core mid Dazzle and done well. You could always do that sort of thing and it didn't need a really arbitrary stat buff in a talent to be achievable, you just had to think outside the box a little and play really well to make it work.

>>375988445
>Stats don't lie.
This is what people usually say before proceeding to misrepresent/misinterpret statistics in a deceitful way.

>>375995297
>what is mann vs machine

also
>inb4 a dead gamemode

>>376011604
>guy posted a straight screenshot with a part zoomed in
>proceeding to misrepresent/misinterpret statistics
I can just tell you're a dumbass

>>376009198
Make a well phrased but not overly agressive post on reddit to get on the front page, that's the only thing valve listens to.
Complaining here does literally nothing

If there was a version of this game that reverted it back to 6.79 I would play it

It's a shitshow now

>>375983280
They fixed it, anon.

>>375982234
Nice b8 m8

>>375982003
It'll just be poverty Dota with some shitty dialogue thrown in to make idiots blow money. Just play Alien Swarm Reactive Drop, it's got multiple campaigns and is free anyway.