Dark Souls

>>375959031
After The Ringed City confirming that Gwyn kept humans/pygmies subdued, definitely Kaathe.

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They're on the same side.

>>375959232
how exactly does the ringed city conforms that???

both snakes where assholes, period

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They're both jewsnakes essentially using you for their own benefit.
Frampt wants you to kill yourself to keep the good times rolling a little longer. This will only delay the inevitable burning out of the flame.
Kaathe wants you to kill everyone and snuff out the flame, bringing about a new violent era of darkness.
Both of them benefit more from it than you do. They feed your ego and make you feel important but in the end they've done the same charade to probably thousands of other undead to get them to fight.

>>375959289
Not so much on the same side as they are working towards the same endgame. Kaathe is shortsighted and doesn't take the convolution of time into account. Even if he convinces you to not link the flame, some other shmuck that didn't meet him will just do it in your place. Frampt is aware of this, so he seeks to end the flame the other way, by linking it until it can't be linked any longer, as seen in DS3.

>implying anything in DaS has any consequence whatsoever

>>375960258
>Both of them benefit more from it than you do.
How do they benefit at all even? For how long they've supposedly been around it doesn't seem like they'd care much about anything.

>>375960258
Kaathe is dead come DS3 though so how would he benefit from a lord of hollows

When you consider stuff like Andre being in DS3 purely for fanservice with no actual lore reason it should be clear the lore in DS was never as huge and complex as people make it out to be.

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>>375959987
>how exactly does the ringed city conforms that???

Do you even bother to hear the NPCs dialogs, you lazy fuck?

>>375959987
Did you even play the game?
Pygmies sitting in the middle of nowhere, kept isolated with the help of Gwyn's daughter.
Plus that statue showing Gwyn crowning the pygmy. He gave them an honorary title and the isolated city in the end of the world for them to "rule".

Frampt, considering he was trying to prevent the fucking apocalypse.

>>375960931
>subdued
contain and subdue are very diferent thinks m8, also why are you so fucking salty nigger i was just asking to see if i missed something.

Fuck you

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>>375961195
Not him but your post made you sound like a total faggot. Fuck off. Act like a cunt get treated like a cunt, cunt.

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>>375961195
>also why are you so fucking salty nigger
>Fuck you

>>375960801
yeah but they didint added the most beloved nps of all the franchise, fuck off nigger, just because you are too fucking lazy to read the lore on every fucking item in the game and sit for a minute and think about it it dosent mean the lore of the game is "inexistgent" Fuck off

>>375960931
>caring about dialogue
>in a sequel
>in a sequel dlc
lmao
nah dawg
nah

>>375959031
According to later games neither. Both endings don't solve anything since they are not permanent.

If we talk strictly DS1 then probably Kaathe. Fueling the fire is just staving off the inevitable, so it's better to just embrace the dark.

>>375961357
>>375961376
yeah im a completly faggot faggot, here for (You)

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>>375961440
Why the fuck even post here then

It's relevant, if you don't care about dialogue then why even be in a thread about the story when the dialogue is relevant to it

I swear whenever I think /v/ has gotten as stupid as it can get, a faggot like you shows up and makes a post. Fucking retard.

>>375961527
I really wish we had learned more about the consequences of DSII and the Bearer of the Curse escaping the cycle and becoming a genuinely immortal badass.

It feels like they kept the shitty things DSII introduced while retconning and removing the good stuff.

>>375959031
kaathe tried to bring the dark souls back together, which was impossible with the pygmies being locked up on their own volition
frampt went with the flow and was praised even until the very last game

in the end frampt had a better life than kaathe, which were their aims

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>>375961384
Jesus Christ calm down you fucking autist and try articulating your thoughts in a comprehendable way.

>>375961527
>Both endings don't solve anything since they are not permanent.
DS3 makes that hit of one age of dark happening before the game kinda ambiguous.

I don't know, Untended Graves is still a bit weird because despite the few descriptions and dialogue hinting it was in the past the game as a whole still treats letting the fire go out in DS3 as an ultimate end instead of just another part of the cycle.

>>375960595
>Kaathe is dead come DS3

then why does yuria mention that she failed him when you kill her?

>>375961704
i have nothing else to do, i dont have any friends and i don't have any games to pally right now :(

>>375961704
You give a shit about the dlc of the sequels and you have the gall to call me stupid? Eat shit my dude, oh wait you play the sequels you already do lmao :^)

>>375961773
nice argument, here have a (You)

>>375961752
Kaathe got his dick sucked by the 3 edgy sisters of London though whilst Frampt was forced to jerk off underground for 1000 years till the chosen undead appeared.

>>375960801
The "lore" is half fan theories somehow taken as a fact.


And if you try to discuss about only factual things you see in the game people call it a fan theory, it's dumb.

>>375961835
The Untended Graves was the Realm that Ludleth came from. He refused to allow the age of Fire to end when Grundyr failed, and so locked the realm away. That's what got him his lordship.

>>375961527
>so it's better to just embrace the dark.
by that logic neither are right, and neither path is right because doing either is just a culling to the other.

>>375961921
Thanks I worked hard on it

>>375961994
Case in point, here's someone touting a fan theory.

>>375961728
>DSII and the Bearer of the Curse escaping the cycle and becoming a genuinely immortal badass.

i really hate how much people play up

>has a funny hat that prevents hollowing

>>375962106
>DS3 arrives
>new undead type that never goes hollow

>>375962094
Well then where else would Ludleth be an exile from?

>>375962192
what are you trying to say here?

>>375961876
I don't have it handy but apparently in the Japanese text her dying line is something like "Kaathe....i have failed to fulfil your dying wish...." Something like that. So he's gone but the Sable Church is still carrying out his ideology bringing about the Age of Humanity.

>>375962106
>has a funny hat that prevents hollowing
No, he has FOUR funny hats that prevent hollowing.

>>375961835
when you find the eyes of the fire keeper Ludleth explains a bit of what happened before, i think is pretty clear that he used to know that fire keeper, also he states that he linked the flame when no one wanted to and the fire was almost gone, im pretty sure its all conected.

>>375962106
That's fair enough but Aldia should've at least played a part in 3.
>>375962192
Nice headcanon. You don't have a single piece of evidence linking the unkindled with BotC

Kaathe. The fire will burn out eventually, linking it is just prolonging the inevitable while allowing the faggot gods to remain in power. Gwyndolin shilling for Frampt makes the choice obvious.

>>375961835
The firekeeper in DS3 talks about tiny embers in the distance or sth like that when given the eyes, so I assume that implies that fire can be reignited still.

I think in DS2 it was stated verbatim that the age of dark is not permanent and the fire can be ignited again even after going out. In light of that, 3 out 4 DS3 endings make no sense, since we already know that thas shit ain't gonna do anything, but I assume Muhzaki just disregarded eveything that happened in DS2.

>>375961728
>escaping the cycle

What? There is no escape to the cycle, and the dumb tree fucker in the ending even tells you that.

>immortal

All undead are already immortal. Just prevents hollowing.

>>375962212
it is confirmed that the graves are in the past and not in another realm, check the fireshine maiden dialogs for more info on this.

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>>375961892
What's your favorite Souls game then? Dark Souls? Fucking bet it is, fuck right off my dude. Dark Souls itself is a sequel.

Dark Souls is my favorite Souls game, and I don't even like the others nearly as much as I like DaS, but brushing off the story when it's relevant just shows how fucking retarded you are. It's your opinion dude but god damn you must be a total obnoxious faggot to be around.

>>375962309
>linking the unkindled with BotC
No one was even doing that. Are you feeling well?

>>375961195
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx1J2CzNnS8
>you

>>375960258
>bringing about a new violent era of darkness

I wonder if how the age of darkness starts affects anything. Like letting the Age of Fire quietly die out instead of being violently snuffed out.

>>375961892
yeah because dlc since the frist game are irrelevant. Kek

>>375962323
But then the fire will just start up again and repeat so does it really matter?

>>375962464
>Dark Souls itself is a sequel

spiritual successor =/= sequel

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For people claiming to be into this series you all are quite mistaken about the age of Dark.

It isn't the apocalypse, it's literally just the twilight and eventual end of the god races. Man will assume control and then, eventually, another flame will emerge and the humans of the world will be subdued and cast out as pygmies again until the dark soul reemerges.

It's a circle.

>>375962516
nice job anon, here have it (You)

Were the statues in the Grand Archives made in honor of Frampt or Kaathe?

>>375962212
>exile from
From wherever he came from, duh.

Don't overthink about his title, it's just a random title from a story they decided not to tell.

>>375962681
>it isn't the apocalypse
Yeah okay, go tell that to Oolacile and New Londo.

>>375962681
>Man will assume control
>it's too dark to see anything
>everyone is a mindless hollow except those eating up the humanity of others
wow great job guys

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>>375962283
>'canon' text is Japanese
>'canon' and only spoken language is English

Goddammit Miyazaki

>>375962803

The Abyss is basically the Dark gone wild. Dark itself is a serene state.

>>375962681
you are ignoring hollowing and the abyss, also we will never know for sure since we dont really get a look onto an age of dark, unless you count the graves as one.

>>375962803
>dark = the abyss

The Abyss is to dark what Lost Izalith was to fire.

>>375962962
What makes you say that

>>375962985
So the same thing?

>>375959031
Kaathe by a longshot
DS3's Dark ending has the fire keeper tell us that the first flame acts like a cycle and will one day return
Gwyn and Frampt have pushed for the cycle to be broken and disturbed the natural flow of the world

Reminder the Lord of Hollows ending is neither an Age of Dark or Fire, but a return to the state of Grey before the First Flame, with Mankind now being the immortal creatures.

>>375962479
See
>>375962192
Who was responding to
>>375962106

You tell me how else to interpret someone wanting to know what the BotC did by pointing out the new type of undead in DS3.

>>375962961
Reminds me of Manus.

His title of Father in Japanese is more akin to being a priest/pracher instead of the literal father.

>>375962962
I think is pretty clear by now that abyss is humanity gone wild not dark, it can be a mix of the two tho, no one really knows

>>375962985
Yeah but what is the DEEP

>>375962962
Ringed Knight gear description says it was forged in Abyss, so either the translation is bad, From got lost in it's own lore or you're wrong.

>>375962669
A spiritual successor is an indirect sequel, are you legitimately retarded?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlWmCXihec4

>>375962629
what are you kekking at you didnt say anything funny

Neither. Frampt tries to manipulate every good goy who comes to ring the bell into being fuel and Kaathe is an edgelord who's probably butthurt that he wasn't even considered a good enough dragon to be killed by Gwyn and just spends his days jacking off in the Abyss. The Age of Dark or Fire is nothing more to them than whether they get to sleep with the lights on or off.

>>375963017
No, Chaos Flame is not the First Flame. It is a wrong and wild Flame. The Abyss is this same kind of corruption but of the Dark.

>>375960481
This is only because Miyazaki doesn't know how to write a fucking ending, and just did DS1 again.

>>375963071
>see your own post
I was just mentioning how DS3 kinda dropped the whole focus on humanity/undeath/mindlessness and made it even trivial with the introduction of ashen ones.

was anyone else disappointed with The Ringed City itself?

We spend like a minute or two on the rooftops when we arrive, get to the first bonfire, go down a narrow straight path to a wide straight path with ONE alleyway that branches off to fight Alva, and then that's it. We end up in a swamp and a tomb before getting to the final chapel where we meet fillianore and the dlc essentially ends there aside from the boss fight

>>375962961
>can't even praise properly

you shoved this meme shit in two sequels and you don't even have it down pat

>>375963098
The opposite of the First Flame.

>>375963098
bloodborne

>>375963108
Correction.

Abyss is an actual physical place. Dark is a state and age.

Age of Dark is objectively a good thing but neither snake was wholly telling the truth

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Which covenant is best?
Chaos servant to save Solaire

>>375963285
I liked Ashes of Ariandel a lot more, shorter but had a lot of content packed in it while I was constantly bored through the Dreg Heap and the city itself.

Maybe I'm just a contrarian. Most people hated the first DLC and only praise TRC.

>>375963342
is there any actual conection? or is just shit posting at this point

>>375963434
I have never experienced a gravelord servant invasion

>>375959031
FRUMPFLETS BTFO XxdDD

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It doesn't matter, thanks to Gwyn there can not be a age of dark, the dark sign will burn all humanity until there is only ash left

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>>375963490
Aldritch = eldritch

>>375963419
>Age of Dark is objectively a good thing
Yeah man, I'm sure the people of New Londo agree wholeheartedly.

>>375961079
>gwyn gave pygmies a city
This is why sequels are bad

Doesn't matter. All the "deep" lore is just vague themes and ideas that aren't supposed to make a coherent story.
All endings of DS games are basically asking do you want to be a good goy or edgelord. There is no meaning beyond that.

>>375963234
but horace goes hollow... and andri... the fuck are you talking about

>>375963434
Princess Guard

>>375960328
If that's both their goal why don't they just do nothing so nothing ever happens?

Was anyone else unable to care about the story in 3?

I felt like I rushed through it without caring to look back.

>>375961095
Dark isn't an apocalypse, or maybe it is.I'm not sure its even explained properly

>>375963595
>a dlc in the last game finally adresses something major the first game just ignored outside of the intro
>WOOOOOOW MY FAN THEORY WAS SHOT DOWN

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Were the statues in the Grand Archives made in honor of Frampt or Kaathe?

>>375963434
Way of White
for the shrug

>>375963584
Age of dark not age of the abyss

>>375963765
fucking lady boy

>>375963645
They took dark sigils.

When you "marry" Anri you take his/her's sigils to yourself.

>>375963820
For the love of god, please end this meme.

>>375963145
>>375962669
I would also like to add:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_successor

A spiritual successor is a sequel that doesn't have the same storyline. Eat a dick, fucking loser. Go ahead and backpedal though.

>A spiritual successor, sometimes called a spiritual sequel
>work as do most traditional prequels or sequels

Also one of the main reasons they didn't make it a direct sequel was actually because of LEGAL ISSUES, fucking idiot. Why even contribute to discussions when you're clearly too retarded to think on your own?

>>375963434
Gravelords are the kings of pvp. I never met one that did not anally destroy me

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What was his fucking problem?

>>375963459
I played through both DLC's for the first time earlier last week. I feel the exact same, Ariandel felt more like an organic, thematic world and reminded me of the DS2 DLC's in a good way. Only two bosses hurts it all the other aspects were strong.

The Ringed City on the other hand... The Dreg Heap was just a whole bunch of ash on the floor and on buildings. The Angel 'puzzle' wasn't satisfying at all. We got 3 really good bosses, but having the final piece of content that FROM would ever make be literally a straight line in the dreg heap and in the city except for their respective 'swamp' areas is just lazy. Reminds me of Irithyll to be honest, the massive, cool looking city you think you'll get to explore when you first see it, only to realize you only ever explore 1 straight street in the city with 1 sidepath and the rest of the level isn't even in the city.

>>375963742
But the first game didn't ignore it. The dark soul is humanity and identity of the pygmy was not important, he was furtive for a reason. That's all, TRC pygmy city is actually retarded,. And what the fuck is the blood of dark soul, every human has a dark soul, wtf.

>>375963902
>so mad he had to respond twice research

lmao eat a dick, fucking loser

>>375959031
Just watch Vaatividya if you don't understand the lore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRpDm5pEWUE

>>375963765
Probably Kaathe, since they have angel wings and the angel aligned faction in Lothric castle is against the linking of the fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9x_koRZ2bA
Turn on subtitles

>>375963939
god complex

Why did they have to go and mess up the chaos demons lore in their thrist for MUH CYCLES.

The demon prince soul basically states that the 2 faggot princes lost the memory of flame after the other faggot lorian raped one of them and in doing so didn't kindle the chaos flame hence why it's dying. Why couldn't they have just left it as what DS1 stated which implied with the bed of chaos slain the demons wouldn't be birthed by the bed and so would die off?

>>375963985
>The dark soul is humanity
Proof?
>the pygmy was not important, he was furtive for a reason
So why bring it up at all then?

>>375963892
>t. Gwyn

>>375963709
It isn't explained properly, which is a good thing because it adds to the mystery. But I feel New Londo and Oolacile are pretty damn good examples of Dark leading to the apocalypse.

If someone told you back when you played Dark Souls for the first time that the final area of the entire souls series when the fire is on it's last days would be full of locusts with humanlike faces who talk in rhyming sermons, what would you think?

>>375964036
Why would lothric castle build statues of someone they don't agree with?

>>375964198
>t. Kaathe

>>375964205
Didn't that happen because Gywn branded humans with the dark sign and linking the fire though? It fucked everything up

>>375964096
He ended up sacrificed himself to keep his ideal world going for his peers.
Outside of keeping humans/pygmies worshipping his kind Gwyn didn't seem like a bad person at all, he was probably genuinely afraid of the end of the fire.

Too bad From never went deeper about how those few who existed before the fire were like.
I just assume that the fire gave them sentience so to Gwyn dark was like death.

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Was he /ourguy/?

>>375964294
It's current ruler does agree with him

>>375964332
>Gwyn didn't seem like a bad person at all

What is this autism? He literally branded humans and cursed them to an eternity of suffering and death

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>>375964328
>Gwyn branded the humans with the Dark Sign
Nigga what

>>375964342
>probably the most influential character in DS3
>no single dialogue
:(

>>375963939
Essentially like King Robert. Good warrior but pretty bad leader.

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>>375964018
Wow, nice reply! Not even a single bit of significance! Just white noise! Guess you feel pretty fucking stupid huh, seeing as your post was only

>lmao eat a dick, fucking loser

I am pretty mad, because faggots like you come on /v/ and make stupid posts while not knowing shit about what they're saying. Ignorance is bliss, as they say!

The reason why I responded twice was this. The first time I posted, I knew I was right in what I said, unlike you, who posts like an autistic four year old child who was just brought into this world. The second time I posted, was to show examples for what I stated, showing you how wrong you really are.

Just a bit of advice, you should put your brain out of it's misery aka kill yourself you fucking loser, you're straining your brain way too much.

wish there was a lore wanker who didn't follow this assholes paradigm of pseud diction and composition. too bad enb left the scene

>>375964481
Did you not play the dlc?

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>Manus is all the fragments of humanity
>He's just trying to pull himself together and become whole again.
>People lose their shit

You have to understand the humanity needs to die. The age of fire was a desperate effort to keep a world that is destined to die- alive. When you have to fool your people into setting themselves on fire, there is a fucking problem.

Embrace the Apocalypse, the utter destruction of the human race and become one with Manus again that he may create a true age of dark with a new race intended to exist and thrive in the abyss- rather than serve as a fleeting attmept to pullhimself together.

>>375964479
>He literally branded humans and cursed them to an eternity of suffering and death
u wot m8

>>375964295
http://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Dark+Greatsword
>dark is normally tranquil
The abyss is agitated dark.

>>375964332
This, i dont get why people dont understand that
I honestly take a world full of life and dead than . a world od dark ness full of hollows

>>375964608
You expect me to take post-DaS1 lore seriously?

>>375964619
>Manus is all the fragments of humanity
Where's the evidence

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>>375964519
I wish that I could show him Loss.jpg

>>375964687
>everything I don't like isn't canon

Lorefags everyone

>>375964479
literally what

>>375964632
>Dark Souls 2
You're not being for reals right now, are you?

>>375964687
Only DaS2 is non-canon. It was a completely different game they hastily put in DaS1 references to give it a name and sell the shitehap.

neither

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You don't get a title like "Darkstalker" by being a stand-up guy

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>Malformed black armor of the Ringed Knights. The armor of early men was forged in the Abyss, and betrays a smidgen of life.

>For this reason the gods cast a seal of fire upon such armor, and those who possessed them.

if Aldrich is allied with suly why did he link the flame?

what is the profaned flame?

If soul of cinder is an amalgam of all the linkers then why do the linkers get resurrected independently of it?

wtf are the angels and play pilgrim butterflies? are the angels of base game and trc linked?

this fuckin game... despicable

>>375964685
But after a certain amount of time a new flame will appear free from the problems a dying flame has to deal with. You still get your age of fire, you just need to take breaks in between.

Besides, we know clearly of creatures born from the dark that can thrive there like the dudes artorias made a pact with and the locusts, so what's to say there won't be whole species and communities and kingdoms in an age of dark? They may not be human bymut they deserve their time to rule at the cost of the gods and humans just as the gods kicked the dragons out.

>>375964810
Did you even play DS2? Or DS3? Of course it's canon, DS3 is full of DS2 references

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>>375964767
He's probably the same faggot as >>375961440

Just a dude in the thread posting when he doesn't know what he's talking about.

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>>375964791
>le game doesn't exist meme
This shit was never funny.
It's canon whether you like it or not.

>>375964767
Of course it's not canon. Have you played any of the games after the first? Shit's just embarrassing. Besides, Dark Souls was never meant to have a sequel in the first place.

>>375964967
That's called cameo. They're only there so some favorite equipments and spells from the game could be brought over.

>>375964912
All linkers left part of them in the fire and that accumulated into making the Soul of Cinder.

Angels are the final stage of those locusts.

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>>375959031
Both of them will fuck you over but Kaathe was right only in the sense that the Age of Fire needed to end.

>>375965075
>Besides, Dark Souls was never meant to have a sequel in the first place.
That's why 3 exists. It's mending the damage 2 did by practically ignoring it.

Also their contractual obligation to make sequels ended with it.

>>375965075
>Of course it's not canon. Have you played any of the games after the first? Shit's just embarrassing.

Wow what great arguments

>>375964791
What? So do you honestly assume when they make a sequel to a game, they're like:

>hmm, what should we do about the story
>NAH, FUCK THE STORY, LET'S MAKE IT ALL NON-CANON

Of course it's canon you fucking retard. You can't just say it isn't because that's what you want to think.

Holy FUCK I hate /v/ sometimes. DS2 is my least favorite game in the series, but I would welcome 10 more DS2 releases if it meant you faggots would kill yourselves.

>>375963939
His time was running out and he was afraid by humans going rampage and destroy the order he build.

>>375965268
To some extent he's right though. DS2 makes it clear no one even remembers Gwyn and people are bitching since they can't even tell which lightning spear miracle is the original. Places like Vilhelm are forgotten as are a shitton of other stuff.

Come DS3 and everyone magically remembers.

The daughters of Manus plot, the kings and their kingdoms in DS2 were much better than most stuff in DS3.

>>375965186
>ignoring it
>Despite all the references to DS2

>>375965425
But that's dlc.
DS2DLC>DS3 base game>DS3DLC>DS2 base game

>>375965441
>random characters here and there with no logic or ties to anything else that drop their sets or have those nearby
Yes, that's all they are. References, not tie-ins.

>>375965186
That doesn't help when it's actually just as bad as Dark Souls 2's lore, if not worse.

>>375965219
>it's all just a cycle
>hurr hurr become lord of hollows just eat the flame
>Gwyn's son was actually a big cool boy who was best friends with the dragons which completely ignores the lore the first game established lol
Kys yourself, my friendo.

>>375965425
this

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>>375965413
That doesn't mean it's not canon. You literally CANNOT just say "it's not canon because I say so".

That's not how lore in fiction fucking works. I'm so mad, holy fuck. He's not right at all, because that's /not how LORE WORKS/.

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i miss arty, /v/.

>>375965581
>That doesn't help when it's actually just as bad as Dark Souls 2's lore, if not worse.
Factually wrong.

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>>375965506
So Scholar of the First Sin is still better than The Fire Fades.

>>375965581
>which completely ignores the lore the first game established lol
Care to explain how it ignores the "lore"?

>>375962283
>>375962961
>>375963072
This really annoys me; the notion that there will most likely never be a solid foundation for lore in this game. It's a shame because a lot of the game is clearly built around "reading between the lines" and figuring out the story and lore organically but it's like not even the designers themselves give and fuck and they'd rather take everyone for a fucking ride.

Should've seen this coming ever since the pendant in Dark Souls 1.

>>375965413
DS3 is about people from all ages rising from the graves again, so it does make some sense.

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>>375965581
>That doesn't help when it's actually just as bad as Dark Souls 2's lore, if not worse.

Fuck this fanbase. Nothing but retards, I swear. The entire lot of you.

>>375963939
He realized humanity was a plague that needed to be eradicated at any cost. Trouble is they're an immortal evil so he did his best to curb their power by subjecting them to a curse that slowly burns away their sanity, making them easy to corral and isolate from the godly creatures of the realm. He did so at the cost of his own sanity, so his people could live their lives in peace.

Trouble is the Age of Gods has long since passed and everything Gwyn fought for has been dead for eons. But that was the point. They would eventually die. Humanity will never die. Gwyn never entertained the notion that his kingdom would last forever. He cursed humanity so that the finite mortals who populate the world of Dark Souls could live out their short lives as they pleased. Then after they all die, humanity can inherit the world. He doomed himself to man's immortal fate to allow his kingdom a peaceful, dignified death.

>>375965686
Lore wise they're both shit so sure whatever floats your boat.

Gameplay wise TFF takes the cake any day of the week.

>>375965603
But I just showed how parts of it are LITERALLY not canon. Ds2 says no-one remembers stuff like what the original Lightning Spear was. Ds3 says people do.

>>375965425
>mfw playing through Softs these days
>get to DLCs which I never played
>you need to find keys to open the doors
REEEEEE
this shit better not be too hidden

>>375965776
>the notion that there will most likely never be a solid foundation for lore in this game
Only took you all these years to finally learn that?

People were telling others to stop overthinking about the plot in Dark Souls since week one.
It was bad enough how most arguments did end up just being conjecture from random internet posts.

>>375965652
So says you, gayfer

>>375965752
>DaS1
>Gwyn's son was a dumbass and he lost the annals, so he was exiled and fuck that guy

>DaS3
>ACKSHUALLY, HE WAS SUPER COOL BIG BOY WHO HUNG OUT WITH THE DRAGONS AND HE HAS BIG LIGHTNINGS

>>375965534
This comment simply can't be made in a like Dark Souls was the very loot you find an enemy carrying is condusive to the lore and the items carry refrences to the throne of want

>>375965425
Here comes the meme.

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Someone redpill me on Alva the Wayfarer

>>375965923
>Gameplay wise TFF takes the cake any day of the week.
>Bloodborne with clunky DS1 character
Hmmmmm

>>375965923
>Dark Souls 3 lore
>bad
Fuck you and your opinion, buddy.

>>375965923
I mean lothric is right next to lordran while dragleic is super far away

>>375964567
>I am pretty mad
>autistic four year old
>kill yourself

more

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>>375966109
>guys the fire's fading again
>you gotta link it again

Both are evil as fuck and use you, doesn't matter how you look at it.

One wants you to keep the seemingly never ending fight going, the other wants you to just end it all and get it over with.

>>375966085
>DaS3
>clunky
Again fuck off nigger.

>>375966045
>DaS1
>that guy was removed from records because he did something bad/shameful
>DaS3
>here's that guy still around to please old fans, he allied with the enemy

wow such contradiction

>>375966045
Wow you are retarded.

>>375966205
>guy the fire linking has become a tradition
>but it's ending and one guy refuses to do it
>you must try kindle it one last time or let it fade
Yep, so bad.

>>375966131
Drangleic was heavily implied to be Lordran except million years in the future, but they retconned it.

>>375966205
lore=/=plot

>>375966219
The player character is just as clunky as he was in DS1, sans poise.

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>>375965923
>This means it's not canon because I SAID SO

Doesn't mean it's not canon. There could be reasons for it, one example is >>375965781

This is exactly what I've BEEN SAYING. You cannot say "it's not canon because I said so". What you're saying doesn't deny it's canon, it's just your fucking theory. It's a sequel, it has story elements connected to DS1 in many ways and it references it over and over and over again. It's canon, until someone who made the Souls series, like the DS2 devs or Miyazaki come out and say "IT'S NOT CANON!". And when that happens, I'll welcome it. I fucking HATE DS2's story. That doesn't mean I can say it's not canon.

I fucking hate people who discuss lore without knowing how it works.Or discussing ANYTHING without knowing how anything works. FUCK.

>>375966390
That's straight bitch wrong, you are much more faster in DaS3.

>INT/FTH build
>reccomended to use Astora Greatsword
>slow as fuck and unimpressive damage

Am I being jested

>>375966045
>Gwyn's son was a dumbass and he lost the annals
This meme will never fail to entertain me

>>375966085
>DS1
>clunky

>>375966353
It's fucking boring. Who fucking cares about linking the fire anymore? Haven't these stupid cunts learned that the world never gets better? Over all these cycles it NEVER occurred to them?

I hate discussing Souls on /v/.

nobody knows shit.

>>375963640
>I don't understand it so therefore there's nothing more to it.

Uh-huh.

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>>375966375

>>375966546
>why can't they see that MY theory is actually true??

>>375966250
>to please the fans not pander to the fanbase
This is what ds3fags actually belive

>>375966498
It gets better for a little bit.

>>375966498
Who is Sulyvahn, Aldrich, Lothric

>>375966498
You fucker, you realize the world gets worse if you don't link the fire right?

That's the entire reason, for things to remain, not get better.

>Over all these cycles it NEVER occurred to them?
It occurs to the last motherfucker who was supposed to do it, but don't, so the ashen one must go.

>>375966546
How's dasg for lore stuff?

>>375966470
>shit that was straight up said in the first game
>meme

>>375966131
And yet DS2 was originally meant to have Drangleic be where Lordran was. The game didn't tease you with the many kingdoms rising and falling, the great lord souls being found close to each other and the mystical power of drangleic for sorceries and shit for nothing.

Come DS3 that was retconned but at the time that was the intention.

Besides, lordran is like the capital of the souls world, if it was around in DS2 they would've referenced it.
>>375966427
You do know I'm not saying it's entirely non-canon right? But it's obvious to anyone with a brain that they just didn't care about parts of it and just dropped those parts.

>>375966617
Not even discussing theory, just plain fact here old boy.

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>>375963640
>All endings of DS games are basically asking do you want to be a good goy or edgelord. There is no meaning beyond that.

There is no path.

Dark Souls is just a giant metaphor for the slow heatdeath of the universe.

Nothing matters, everything repeats for ever and all eternity.

Just like how after the Heatdeath of the universe, the universe will compress into a single point in space, followed by a big bang and the cycle continues.

You know it's true anons.

>>375966664
Where

>>375966686
A who cares, Gwyndolin, and Gwyndolin

>>375966692
Why make any decision in the previous games if Dark Souls 3 retcons them all?

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>You will never fight Oscar to the death after he resolves to become the true Dark Lord
>You will never slay Oscar when he gets in the way of bringing in the Age of Dark and usurping the Gods

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>>375966079
>witch hates him
>he travels everywhere trying to find a cure for his Saint waifu
>fails and falls into deepest depression
>witch that used to hate him now feels bad and takes care of him
>he regains will to live and the witch becomes his gf (witch was also the hottest woman ever)
>lived happily ever after. the end

>>375965096
>Angels are the final stage of those locusts.

no. they are londor pilgrims.

when the old welsh hag dies a new non hostile angel spawns near where her body is.

>>375966781
do you have a single fact to back that up?

>>375966839
Places

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>>375959031
Darkness is a place without light.
Fire lights up the dark, shows you what's in it, and casts wildly flickering shadows that make the darkness go "crazy" and seem like an abyss.

The dark souls universe is extremely symbolic, where symbolism decides reality.

>>375966879
>hottest woman ever
>when Shalqoir exists
Step up nigger

>>375966839
>Why make any decision in the previous games if Dark Souls 3 retcons them all?
Dark Souls 2 already do that, fucker.

Dark Souls 3 just try to salvage the mess and end the series, after DaS3, the fire actually fades.

>A who cares
Nobody gives a shit about you.

>>375966839
>those people don't count!

Stop being autistic

>>375966825
>the universe will compress into a single point in space, followed by a big bang and the cycle continues.

>being this optimistic

The black holes era is the only thing awaiting the universe. Then cold and darkness.

>>375966079
Thank god for his helmet, the only good looking helmet without exposed neck.
Fuck whoever was doing armor rigging in DS3.

>>375967012
Jonastown was right

Why can't you faggots just let these threads die? It's always the same arguments, the same replies, the same bait, the same posters, the same everything and your bitter hate keeps you here because you see a shitty opinion and feel the need to argue and argue and argue. If you want to really improve the quality of these threads just don't talk about it, don't reply, don't correct anyone's opinion, don't entertain the cock sucking nigger faggot that is OP, just let these threads die for a while and enjoy the game you're playing you fucking idiots.

>>375966951
Nice fan theory.

>>375967004
>Dark Souls 2 already do that, fucker.
It didn't. Dark Souls 1 never explained what exactly happens if you kindle / deny the flame.

>Dark Souls 3 just try to salvage the mess
And it did it fucking horribly. What the fuck did the player character accomplish in the end? At least in 2, we found a cure for hollowing, which is what we set out to do in the first place.

>>375967103
You are right.

There is clearly an attempt to get Souls fans mad here.

>>375966705
That's not what I meant. I was referring to the "he lost the annals" part. I mean ingame is says he got erased from the annals of history, not that he lost them right?
Like if Gwyn said "Son u lost the annals? I am devastate" or something and then he banished him

>>375966846
We need a Das remake soon

What the FUCK is up with londor pilgrims?
Are they human or undead? Why can't they die unless they've fulfilled a purpose? Why are they turning into butterflys and angels? Why are they headed for Lothric castle if all they do is fly around like faggots?

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>>375966736
>You do know I'm not saying it's entirely non-canon right? But it's obvious to anyone with a brain that they just didn't care about parts of it and just dropped those parts.

I don't GIVE A SHIT if you're not saying it's entirely non-canon, I'm saying that you can't say ANY of it isn't canon because THAT'S NOT HOW DIRECT SEQUELS WORK. All of it is canon until someone like whom I mentioned comes out and says it's not canon.

It's canon, fuck off. You are literally like, the worst type of fucking person to discuss shit with. The type of person who can differentiate theories and opinions from fact. It's like you're actually retarded or something.

>>375967127
Explaining the symbolism isn't a theory.

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>>375967103
And yet you bumped the thread.

>>375967215
>His foolishness led to a loss of the annals of history, and in punishment he was stripped of his deific status, expunged from history,[4] and his name has since been forgotten.

Did you even play the game you fucking retard?

>>375967196
>It didn't. Dark Souls 1 never explained what exactly happens if you kindle / deny the flame.
Dark Souls 1 show what happens when you kindle the flame, and you see how exactly Dark goes if you go to New Londo.

>And it did it fucking horribly. What the fuck did the player character accomplish in the end? At least in 2, we found a cure for hollowing, which is what we set out to do in the first place.
What the fuck? He kindles the last flame or let it die out, he accomplishes exactly what he's set out to do.

He also creates a new painting world for everyone to escape too, the greatest deed done by PC in Souls game.

>>375967271
That is quite literally your own personal interpretation of the plot and therefore it cannot be taken as a truth.

>>375967009
Sullivan is an okay character on his own, but it's almost impossible to see Aldrich and Prince Lothric as anyone but Gwyndolin because of Gwyndolin's model and voice actor. Not to mention they're both twink bois.

>>375959031
Neither because "cycles".

Although DS3 handled it better by thematically showing just what happens when you milk sequels forever. Nothing but ash remains.

>>375967240
Lmao ok buddy don't pop a artery over this.

>>375967240
who can't differentiate*

I'm too mad my dudes, fuck this shit. I'm out.

>>375959031
theyre part of the same entity, so neither or both

>>375966427
>What a Big League Chew piece of shit
That's pretty fucking funny.

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>>375967346
>He kindles the last flame or let it die out,
We fucking did this already. Why do we have to play the same fucking quest as DS1?

>He also creates a new painting world for everyone to escape too
In an already burning painting. It was futile.

>>375967406
Good and don't come back retard

>>375967240
Calm down, anon. It's only a video game.

>>375962879
>>375962979
Mindless Hollowing is 100% a result of neither having a strong age of Fire nor a strong age of Dark.

DS3's king of the Hollow's ending at least should have tipped people off to that.

Everyone assumes the age of Fire is the bees knees, but only for the God races. It's literally taking and elevating Man (in that universe) to his natural environment of thriving.

You all are hyped up on the age of Fire due to Gwyn's everlasting propaganda campaign

DS1 was really good overall, but really clunky by today's standards and has some unfinished areas

DS2 was blatantly unfinished

DS3 has the best gameplay in the Souls series, and has some interesting areas, but overall feels like Bloodborne leftovers

>>375966846
That was such a good idea. Definitely the most unfortunate unused content, by far. The Shiva of the East questline not finishing is a shame too.

Souls games went in a full circle, from people thinking there is no depth or meaning to them to all, to people realizing there is a deeper meaning to most things in the games, to people overthinking it and trying to find meaning in every single thing, to people getting annoyed at those people or simply not smart enough to see beyond the surface claiming the game has no deeper meaning at all.

Full circle. To be honest i think /v/'s main problem with Souls is that it has become popular and contrarian-/v/ can't cope with it.

>TFW ALL of the Souls games can only be ranked as "bad or worse" than x when compared with other Souls games > TFW even the worst souls game easily shits on 99.999% of games released every year. >TFW peoples expectations from Fromsoft are getting higher and higher despite the industries standards becoming lower and lower.>TFW From will never be able to create a truly complete souls game due to classic Budget and Deadline bullshit. >TFW we live in a world where a perfect souls game literally isn't physically possible to be made

>>375967617
nice fan theory

>>375967549
>We fucking did this already. Why do we have to play the same fucking quest as DS1?
Nope, it was the 2nd time it was kindled in DaS1, it was nowhere the last, the actual flame was still strong. DaS2 turns it into a cycle. DaS3 ends the cycle.
>In an already burning painting. It was futile.
Futile for you, maybe, but now they can have a peaceful world with kind inhabitants.

Or perhaps they create the BLOODBORNE universe, who knows?

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>>375961892

>>375967372
YOU MOTHERFUCKER DON'T YOU FUCKING TELL ME WHAT TO DO I'M SICK OF YOU FAGGOTS COMING INTO THESE FUCKING THREADS AND SAYING THE STUPIDEST SHIT ALL THE TIME

ALL I WANT TO DO IS HAVE A LOGICAL DISCUSSION AND THEN SOME FAGGOT LIKE YOU COMES ALONG AND SAYS THE STUPIDEST FUCKING THING AND THE ENTIRE THREAD TURNS INTO A SHIT-SHOW

I DON'T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS SHIT YOU KNOW I'M FUCKING TIRED OF THE WAY YOU FUCKERS COME IN HERE ON YOUR HIGH HORSE AND THINK YOU DESERVE THE RED FUCKING CARPET FOR YOUR OPINIONS THAT YOU OBTAINED FROM SHOVING YOUR ENTIRE ARM UP YOUR FUCKING ASSHOLE AND RIPPING IT OUT

This is the worst board to talk souls lore on. I bet I'd have a better time on the fucking papercraft and oragami board with all of its 3 autistic residents.

>>375967351
And yet it's supported by every single NPC who has ever claimed that lights cast new shadow.

>>375963902
>LEGAL ISSUES
Cmon... maybe they just realized it was a clunky stupid name
>Demon's Souls

Try saying that aloud

>>375967726
What did I tell you NOT to do?

>>375966787
>ds1 endings are framed as pointless
>ds2 adds a literal this is pointless third ending

deepest lore

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>>375967689
>"TFW we live in a world where a perfect souls game literally isn't physically possible to be made"

>>375967714
How do you know it's the last time? If you kindle it, then some else can kindle it later again, right?
And in end of fire the firekeeper literally tells you that tiny embers remain, i.e. the flame will show up again in the future as per DS2. DS3 is literally pointless aside from hollows ending.

>>375967714
>DaS3 ends the cycle.
By having to rekindle the flame / leaving the the flame alone...and continuing the cycle?

>but now they can have a peaceful world with kind inhabitants.
Yeah until they burn alive.

>>375968028
No she says one day tiny embers will dance across the darkness. Implying that they won't now but will in the future which implies a brand new flame not the same one.

>>375967706
We've already covered this earlier.

Chaos Flame =/= First Flame
Abyss =/= Dark

The age of dark is literally fine and humans will thrive in the dark.

>>375967103
>why do you faggots discuss a popular video game series on a video game board

hm...

>>375968117
>a brand new flame not the same one
What the hell is this even supposed to mean? Flame is flame. All this shit will happened again.

>>375967689
>>TFW we live in a world where a perfect souls game literally isn't physically possible to be made
But that's true for any game. Especially if you browse /v/.
No matter how perfect a game is, someone will always call it shit and nitpick.

>>375968117
That's just your headcanon.

>>375968028
I know it's the last time because the bonfire they have kindled since millenia has finally gone out.
The embers mean that some flames might remain, but the bonfire is dead.
>DS3 is literally pointless aside from hollows ending.
As said, DS3 ends the cycle, you cannot kindle the flame anymore after DS3.

>>375968098
We can actually have the flame die though.
>>375968161
Whilst I agree, thrive isn't the best word since being mindless hollows isn't exactly better than sentient creatures ala age of fire.

>>375968202
>Flame is flame.
Are you retarded?

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>>375961892
You have a great opinion there friendo

>>375966546

Dunning-Kruger Effect in action right here.

>>375968098
>By having to rekindle the flame / leaving the the flame alone...and continuing the cycle?
The cycle is unable to continue even if you kindle the flame, it's the last time, the bonfire finally gives out.
>Yeah until they burn alive.
Bull nigger.

>>375968239
>I know it's the last time because the bonfire they have kindled since millenia has finally gone out.
Where is this told/shown? I don't remember it.

>>375968363
In DS1 you kindle it after a thousand years. There have been countless cycles since then so yeah.

>>375968202
The flame is created by Gwyn to innovate the world.

This flame that has been going on since Dark Souls 1 is finally given rest in Dark Souls 3.

A new flame would require a Gwyn-level nigger to create it.

>>375968216
The thing is with Fromsoft games, almost all major flaws can be attributed to rushed development.

Most dev studios could get infinite time and money and they simply wouldn't be talented enough to make a great game. I personally think Fromsoft is one of the few developers who is ONLY held back by money and time constraints

>>375968323
>The cycle is unable to continue even if you kindle the flame, it's the last time, the bonfire finally gives out.
>Source: my ass

>Bull nigger.
Whoah dude nice one

>>375965002
so are you gonna post a link to the uncensored version or what bitch

>>375959031
Frampt sought to keep the flame burning forever, which as it turns out, couldn't happen, as evidenced in 3. Kaathe was just an edgelord who sought power.

Gael realized the flame couldn't be linked forever (and even if it could, wasn't worth it), so he decided to create an entirely new world using the two key elements of his - flame and dark.

Truly, Gael was the hero we deserved.

>>375966879
>lived happily ever after. the end
You aren't lying to me, are you?

>>375968458
>The flame is created by Gwyn
Stopped reading there. Gwyn found the flame and used its power.

>>375968458
What the fuck is this shit. The first flame literally popped into existence and Gwyn found his soul in it. He merely became fuel for it he didn't create it jesus christ this board dissapoints me everyday.

>>375968458
gwyn didn't create the first flame you dingus

the first flame created gwyn

>>375968498
It's the fucking ending 1.

>>375968583
>>375968591
>>375968597
OK, anon, maybe I remember wrong.

But the point remains, this flame has finally gone out in DaS3.

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>>375968615
If the fire doesn't even have enough power to be rekindled again, then what is the point of absorbing it for yourself in the other ending?

>>375968527
Gael looks like a child molester. Considering painter loli doesn't even have a name who knows what kind of fucked up things Gael did to her whilst convincing her it was normal uncle-niece stuff?

>>375968450
Rewatching the cutscene it makes sense, that's why the linking is so lame.
I guess they retconned DS2 out of existance lul.

>>375968870
>Lucatiel's set
>Creighton
>

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Who would be the best roommate?

>>375968974
I told you to fuck off didn't I?

>>375968870
>>375968974
wtf why did it autpost I didn't click shit

>Ruin Sentinels / set
>Alva + gf
>Dragonslayer Bow
>Darkdrift

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Any tips for Gael?
This asshole keeps pushing my shit in, then electrocuting me.
He even fucking teleports if you get too far away.
What the fuck are you supposed to do between that and the lightning spam?

>>375968819
Don't talk shit about my boss-fu.

>>375968794
So an aspect of Fire still remains within him.

>>375968819
>Gael looks like a child molester

what makes him look like a child molester anon?

asking for a friend

>>375969047
>ignore everything that contradicts your whacky meme
>I TOLD YOU TO FUCK OFF REE
DS3tards.

>>375968974
>>375969074
Inserting a bunch of fan favourite equipment (and reusing assets) doesn't change the fact that DS3 story pretty much completely undermines DS2.

>>375969132
He looks like anon's uncle

>>375968819
Stop projecting.

>>375969123
But it will die out inside him.

>>375969113
You roll till he finishes his combo then get 1 (one) hit in before he does it again. When he has the explosion of homing red things burst from him you can get some good damage in.

Also how the fuck are you getting eletrocuted? The ground glows like 10 seconds in advance before lightning strikes there

>>375969113
Dodge obviously. He is so easy, always roll to the right side of him

>>375969113
Just roll into his attacks to your right, the scarf almost always misses that way.

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>>375969113

>>375969181
>Inserting a bunch of fan favourite equipment (and reusing assets) doesn't change the fact that DS3 story pretty much completely undermines DS2 and DS1.
Fixed.

>>375969163
Aight so a lot of ds2 was retconned but not all of it. Are you happy now

Goddamn all these DaS3 trailers are horrible, good voice overs run by terrible not-fitting normalfag songs.

>>375968550
He is, because Alva fucking dies. You killed him.

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Man is dark
Dark is man?
Man takes flame not dark no more
Flame with man still dark?
Dark soul?
Flame needs flame over and over
Flame needs dark?
When no flame all dark?
When no flame all dark you take flame, are you dark?
Dark age?
When no flame and no take flame all dark
But flames?
Water, age of deep?
Cycle?
Dark then flame then water?
Flames in the water?
Ground from the water then flames then man is dark he takes the flame
Flame becomes black, dark soul again?
Man goes on in paintings?
Escape rot?
Fire fights rot?
Is rot dark?
You need dark to make painting so rot was always there?
Everything a painting, loop of the flame and dark?
Where water?

Guys I got invaded in DS1 then randomly had the drake sword pop up even though I was in the church then the invader died and I got 10 000 souls what just happened?

>>375961195
con·tain
kənˈtān/

control or restrain (oneself or a feeling).

synonyms: restrain, curb, rein in, suppress, repress, stifle, subdue, quell, swallow, bottle up, hold in, keep in check

>>375969240
Everything fades, anon.

>>375969335
It doesn't undermine DS1, it just shows you the consequences of continuous linking.
It undermines DS2, because it was supposed to be infinite. The whole game was about futility and not being able to leave your mark upon the world. Also bajilion lore contradictions like Anor Londo still existing and all that shit.

>>375969401
What in 2 was retconned

>>375969469
You kill his phantom that is guarding the way to Karla and Zullie's corpse

>>375969534
He dropped the sword intentionally, and then killed himself to give you souls.

He was probably fucking around.

>>375968870
Not really, the fragments of Manus are still there, as is the lore of Vendrick (description of the Shield of Want, not being a true Lord could be interpreted as his refusal to kindle the First Flame, thereby not being a Lord of Cinder)

So what happens to Aldia at the end of all this? He's completely immortal, nothing can permanently kill him.

Does the cycle going wonky in Ringed City affect him at all?

Is he just going to be sitting around forever while everyone else fucks off in the new painted world?

>>375969710
That's just some throwaway references, the plot of DS2 is undermined by the fact that the cycle ends naturally sometime in the future. Also continuity errors, like nobody remembering Lordran in DS2, but Anor Londo exists just fine in DS3 and even Gwyndolin was alive until events of the game. It's apparent that they just disregarded it and made a direct sequel to DS1.

>>375969809
>Is he just going to be sitting around forever while everyone else fucks off in the new painted world?
He's gonna be laughing because they're pussies that will be burned alive.

>>375969809
Fuck it, it doesn't matter. The lore is retarded. God is dead.

>>375969609
Let's take sunlight blade from ds2

"An ancient miracle of the sun.
Reinforces weapon in other hand with sunlight, a form of lightning.

The sun grants life to all things upon the earth, even if the worshipers of sunlight no longer bless the surface with their presence."

Then come Ds3s lightning urns

The knights of Lothric have since tamed dragons, but were once hunters of dragons themselves.

This explains their special hunting gear, and why they worshipped the sun.

>>375959031
Niether. Both saught to domnant the Pygmy/Humankind for their benefit. Frampt to continue the age of fire and the power of the Gods.

Kaathe sought a new age of dark, so that Immortal Dragons could rule again.

>>375970060
The point of DS2 was that it was so far in the future that so many kingdoms have come and gone, and nobody remembers 90% of their names.
>It's apparent that they just disregarded it and made a direct sequel to DS1.
Which is horrible writing.

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Were the demons really that bad?

>>375970143
why don't lothric knights use lightning urns

why don't any enemies use lightning urns

why don't lothric knights use lothric knight xbow

>>375970143
I don't see any contradictions or even similarities in those. Are you trying to prove a point by comparing two different items' descriptions?

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>>375961878
>i dont have any friends
I wonder why

>>375970241
why did you post a japanese cat

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>>375970558
She's a goat, you bigot

>>375970340
Ds2 says people no longer worship the sun. Ds3 comes and has a whole kingdom dedicated to doing so with no explanation given as to why this occured.

Furthermore, in ds2 people don't even know which miracle was the original Lightning spear whilst in ds3 it's a known fact.

>>375970293

Well they used them to hunt dragons and we're not dragons.

Unless you speak japanese, then anylyzing the lore makes no sense anyway, since it is full of misinterpretations.