How do you make JRPG combat interesting?

SMT, Persona, and TMS have the best turn-based combat.
Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls have the best action combat.
I have no complaint desu

>>375809916
by copying kh2fm

>>375809916
>SMT, Persona,
>just use right damage type
>buff/debuff on ocasions
Is it's the best jrpgs have to offer?

Copy Superstar Saga but add all the regular shit like buffs, debuffs, elements, bunchload of stats

Stop making all non-boss encounters weak ass cannon fodder.

>>375809916
>Dragon's Dogma
It's just ok, game before dlc it's pisseasy anyway.
>Dark Souls
Worse than BoD.

>>375810574
what's BoD

>>375810635
Braid of Dankness

>>375809916
Underlying promblem of jrps is in the base of their combat mechanics: melee attacks almost always connect, unless it's special occasion like enemy with high evasion. Compare it to dnd based or dnd inspired games, where misses are very common and defence is mostly based on avoiding damage instead of reducing damage and removing it (healing). That means you can't afford to get hit much, but you won't be able to dispatch enemies quick enough with just attacking, that makes buffing and debuffing much more important, unlike jrpgs where best stratgy most of time is just attacking and healing.

>>375809916
By making it a SRPG like final fantasy tactics

or by making it anything other than just selecting things in menus.

post more risty pls

>>375811684
go to /e/

>>375811732
okay

>>375809916
Better question

How do you make WRPG combat interesting?

>>375811845
It already is :^)

>>375809916
Play good games

>>375811845
By not making it some shitty action combat.

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>>375809916
>risty

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>>375811845
copying JRPG combats

>>375811215
>Adding one of the biggest problems of DnD-like games to JRPGs will fix them
Every DnD based game depends so much on dice rolls that you can often win battles just by reloading a save and hoping for the best.
They easily have worse gameplay than the average JRPG

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>>375812119
>reloading a save and hoping for the best

>>375812119
>play rpg
>complain about dice rolls

sounds smart

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>>375812119
>Every DnD based game depends so much on dice rolls that you can often win battles just by reloading a save and hoping for the best.
So you're not just terrible, you complain about RNG in a fucking RPG.

>>375809916

>all these people complaining about JRPGs without even realizing JRPGs can be traced all the way back to a handful of games that were deeply inspired by the Wizardry series, the most iconic and earliest WRPG games

>>375812361
>>375812278
>>375812234
This kind of RNG is the worst thing you can do in a video game.
In a tabletop RPG it's fine because all of the action is in your imagination, but in a game where all attack animations are the same throught the game it gets boring VERY fast.
No one enjoys missing 60% of your attacks, there are plenty of other methods to make JRPGs compelling without sacrificing hit rate.

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>>375809916
>tfw still no queen blade season 4 or a full fulge game.

>>375812675
>japs couldn't even make a proper wizardry ripoff
really makes you think.

>>375812740
>in a game where all attack animations are the same throught the game it gets boring VERY fast
Just add a variety of animations, NWN and summoner did it long ago.
>No one enjoys missing 60% of your attacks
Than why so many people enjoy gambling?

>>375809916
Model it on XCOM terror from the deep's outrageous tactical combat.

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Best girl

>>375812992
>when first game is stuck in permanent easy mode
>nobody realises that it's a bug
>people complain it to easy
>developers make next game so hard it's almost broken

>>375812740
You can manipulate RNG a lot unless we're talking about the very first Gold Box games, and at that point the same could be said for many JRPG of the time like DQ1 or FF1 which is basically the lost Gold Box "Temple of Elemental Fiends" game.
The problem with most RPGs in general, though this is far more prominent in JRPGs, is what anon>>375811215 says
>Compare it to dnd based or dnd inspired games, where misses are very common and defence is mostly based on avoiding damage instead of reducing damage and removing it (healing).
Healing destroys any semblance of challenge in the vast majoity of JRPGs and in many WRPGs too, only a few games realized that what really breaks systems is access to easy healing, which invalidates any sort of strategy or is "rebalanced" by making stat sponges which one shot you continuously, making the games more tedious than challenging when you have to spend three or four turns just to setup revives or healing in the most monotonous possible strategy.
To add on that, most JRPGs tend to give the players' side incredibly unfair advantage in the form of unique mechanics or access to overpowered tools that simply aren't available to enemies, so you end up always overpowered on a simple design basis, granted that there are many games that have more consistent design choices for both sides, the problem in most JRPGs is that the player simply has access to more mechanics than the enemy side.

>>375813145
Patrician taste.

>>375810428
SMT make bosses only doable if you cheese them, and several bosses don't have weakness or purge buffs, so there you have it

Etrian Odyssey has the best turn-based combat. Simpler than SMT but skills have more depth

>>375810218
>Persona
>no control of team-mates
No thank you

>>375813250
That can easily be resolved tweaking some numbers.
Make healing a 2-turn cast ability that leaves the user vulnerable. Make aggro controlling a thing to simulate MMO raids. Make it so there are no healing spells at all and you can only recover health using a specific mechanic or outside of battles.
In JRPGs there's limitless options for creativety on battle modes but developers are afraid of change.

>>375813409
In these cases the only semblance of strategy left to you is to cheese AI.

>>375809916
Press turn

>>375813409
No don't need to cheese any SMT boss.

>>375813539
That's only P3.

>>375812940
You're still only watching your guys not doing what you told them to do. How is that any fun?
>gambling analogies
I didn't realise video games had a way to make money out of them.

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>>375809916
add some kind of time limits,

I recently started pic related and I really like how you have to manage your time.
Can't just endlessly grind or do all sidequests if you want to still have time for the main assignments

>>375810574
I laugh every time someone mentions BoD like it's not some trash with terrible controls, aesthetics, and everything that makes a good game.

>>375813145
Fact: every girl designed by F.S. is the lewdest AND best girl.

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>>375809916
Don't fix what isn't broken.

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>>375810218

>SMT, Persona, and TMS have the best turn-based combat.

>>375809916
by having gameplay instead of just menus.

Like fuck, at least introduce some positioning elements, at least then you can begin to formulate a strategy rather than just picking x spell because enemy is weak to it.

>>375813646
>Press turn
>not ff10 esque turn system with attacks pushing enemies turn back if enemy is vulnerable to it.

>>375813802
and while they're at it, let me choose which stats to increase. How do you have an RPG that practically builds your character for you

>>375813739
so what game has the best turn based combat

>>375813858
Fallout 1/2

>>375813646
Since you say any, I'm giving you DDS Demifiend

>>375813651

I usually hate time limits but I liked them in Persona

>>375813858
deathwind: war on wheels

>>375813667
>some trash with terrible controls, aesthetics, and everything that makes a good game.
So, just like Souls.

>>375813802

This. FFT and Fire Emblem were nigh-perfect systems, but the Nips then ditched them and steadily went backwards.

>>375813572
>In JRPGs there's limitless options for creativety on battle modes but developers are afraid of change.
You do know that what you just said has been done by JRPG already, sometimes even decades ago?
The problem is those kiind of games don't sell, ironically, they sell even worse in the west, see SaGa games or the recent Caligula.
There's many JRPG devs that do good stuff, but it's almost always niche because only hardcore players have the patience to sit down and learn how to play a game that isn't the usually mindless grind and healspam, casual games will always sell more and have all the spotlight, but those kinds of game with actually good design do exist.

Just to use your example of healing taking casting turns, that's exactly what the last SaGa game did, you have only two healing spells in the game, both of which are unviable because they only restore a tiny fraction of your HP and take more resources and turns than they're worth unless you make a complex combo setup to cut costs and casting time, the other healing method is praying to a deity that can restore your HP if you play in a certain way, and that is also RNG based and not sustainable.

>>375813737
This is unfortunately truth.
Other than for nostalgia reasons, I can't play most WRPGs today, but recently finished FF2 and 5, Dragon Quest 3, SMT IV and now I'm working on Lufia for the GBA. They all play fun even if simple, unlike the oldest WRPGs which are just unreasonably boring.

>>375813737
>arcanum
>you are the chosen one
Nope.

>>375813912
lolno that was fucking garbage
>>375813917
dunno about it

>>375809916
Grandia's combat was pretty revolutionary back in the day.

>>375809916
Make it like FF12 with all gambits turned off or like Ni No Kuni with a similar gambit-type system with everything turned off, forcing you to constantly micro-manage multiple characters in battle at once.

It's challenging as hell to play that way, and I enjoy it


Or just do like all modern JRPGs made for the faggot Xbox crowd, and give them single-character DMC-type battle systems.

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This game deserves to be in the top 10 rpg combat mechanics

>>375813912
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you literally don't need to think in fallout just muh aimed shot, and the majority of crpgs too, they're all games with terrible tactical gameplay.

>>375813912

Fucking kek

>click on thing
>maybe it dies I dunno check your stats and equipment

Fallout 1/2 were nothing special in terms of actual combat, in fact, the combat was probably the most braindead aspect of the game. The only thought and strategy involved is deciding what level you needed to finish a certain quest based on the enemies you saw in the first room upon entering the area.

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>>375813715
So that's what they have in common.

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>>375814030

So this is the power of underage weebs.

>>375809916
add positioning to traditional turn-based JRPGs

or at the very least use Grandia's battle system, it's the best one without real positioning

>>375813971
The games with these systems don't sell well because they're not in a main franchise or anything.
You can bet that if FF XVI brings back traditional turn based gameplay and with it introduces something like SaGa, it wouldn't sell badly.
The thing is, unlike other battle systems, turn-based is either braindead or hard. You can't have an interesting system that pleases everyone unlike many kinds of action games.
Take shooters for example. Any retard can aim and shoot a gun, but the actual skill comes from positioning, reaction speed and a bunch of other factors that don't necessarily mean 'killing faster'
In turn based you only have the 'kill faster' differentiation between a shit player and a good one.

>>375814084
The only game that did something meaningfull with ATB, pity that grandia 2 has very repetitive encounters that are best dealt with AOE spell spam.

>>375814149
I'm not agreeing that it's the best combat, but Fallout succeeds because of the large range of character builds.

In JRPGs, you are lucky to have any control over how you build a character and if they do it's often just which spells they have

>>375814094
>Make it like FF12 with all gambits turned off
So, just like in Baldurs Gate?

>>375813858
The Temple of Elemental Evil

which is pretty ironic, because it is the most faithful adaption of D&D rules and everyone is always like "noo D&D sucks for video games"

Jrpg is not a real genre. it is just what they call wizardry clones with bad writing and big tits

>>375809916
nude mod

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;_;

>>375814334
>large range of character builds
Thats because it offered other solutions to problems than combat. Jrpgs almost never do it.

>>375814334

Off the top of my head in mainline SMT and Etrian Odyssey you have total control over your party composition and their builds. In Persona you have less control over your party composition, but your MC can totally change his role in combat with a simple change of persona. If you're thinking "build variety" is just deciding whether you want to shoot or stab your enemy most JRPGs accommodate that already. You can build casters or physical characters in mainline SMT games for example

>>375814489
>wizardry clones
It's insulting to wizardry, at lest to its later iterations.

>>375813916
I'd prefer it if the "time" limit is linked to what you do in the game.
I think it's bullshit when, for example, in Harvest Moon half a day passes because you talked to 5 NPC

>>375814567
>MC can totally change his role in combat with a simple change of persona
In 1 and 2 everyone could do it, not just mc.

>>375814506
Useless cunt

>>375813646
Oh, I only played P3

>>375814532
Even in combat you have a variety of specializations to make and these change how you get through battles.

Where as in an average jrpg you'd be hard pressed to differentiate one playthrough from the next

>>375814334
You don't understand that for a lot of JRPGs YOUR PARTY is the most customizable thing, and you customize it with characters, that are customizable too, some of wich even have exclusive mechanics.

>>375814252

>turn-based JRPGs

Um, sweetie, turn-based combat is an obsolete system found only in W*stern >games.

Action RPG-style combat is the future, just look at Final Fantasy XV™ and the goat direction of the Final Fantasy VII Remake™

I bet you like the Witcher 3 too you pleb

>>375814567
Switching personas is just a glorified way of having a big spell list. There's no stat requirements or anything, you're free to use them all from the get go and the only building you do with them is to level them up for more spells.

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>>375814704

>>375809916
>How do you make JRPG combat interesting?- 86 posts and 13 image replies shown.
keep it turn based, add some flavor but not overcomplicate things.
or Xenoblade X route

>>375814750
>YOUR PARTY is the most customizable thing
>swapping premade characters
SUCH CUSTOMIZATION, 11/10.

>>375814789
>turn-based combat is an obsolete system found only in W*stern >games
Yeah, don't mind hundreds of jap made turn based dungeon crawlers that got released every year.

>>375814314
>You can bet that if FF XVI brings back traditional turn based gameplay and with it introduces something like SaGa, it wouldn't sell badly.
Well, that's exactly what FFXI, and to a degree XIII-3 did, that's the unfortunate pygmalion effect of a brand name, I agree with you here, though outside of brand names, big budgets and fancy graphics are also a reason why more complex games don't get much of a following, case in point SMT and Persona.
>You can't have an interesting system that pleases everyone unlike many kinds of action games.
True that, and it pains me how much you're right.
>>375814750
>YOUR PARTY is the most customizable thing
The usual JRPG system is a shallow premade, fixed class system where you'll be lucky to have a character that can equip more than one weapon category.

>>375814848

>just a glorified way of having a big spell list

Yeah except if you change persona in battle because you really need a certain spell type you're probably going to be gimping yourself using lower level stats, and late game it probably won't have the immunities you've fused into your primary persona leaving you vulnerable if you switch to it.

>>375814950
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvBCjyJZWwY&t=331s

Literally better than any crpg with shit combat. Better story too.

>>375814848
Personas all have different stats and elemental resistances/weaknesses. It isn't only spells you big shitposter.

>>375814750
swapping between characters isn't much in comparison to building a fallout char. And while i'm sure there's some party members with unique mechanics, they're the exception to the rule and they usually play no different from one another other than what element of spells they have

>>375815070
Duh, watch it from the beginning, i fucked up.

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>>375815070
>ff7 fags are this delusional

>>375815175
Where's the good wrpg combat?

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>>375815070
>tfw you just want another RPG with this system

Path of Exile is okay, but absolutely not enough and also the wrong genre (Diablo-like)

>>375815096
I guess if you say that and call me names the game suddenly has character building

>>375815070
>lets break classes into separate abilities and allow every character to equip any combination of this abilities
>somehow ended up with worse customization than ff 5
How could they fuck up so hard?

>>375815251
Silent Storm.

>>375815397
Too much freedom of the wrong kind, same problem FFVI had, when there isn't a strong ruleset to bind all those abilities in a coherent frame you only get mindless chaos

>>375815251
Compared to jap shit even worst wrpg is godlike.

>>375815536
There are some extremely good jap RPGs though, both sides have great stuff and garbage.

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>>375815536
>retarded games for neckbeards who only care about """"""roleplaying""""""(a.k.a not video games)
>good gameplay

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>>375809916
Case in point.

>>375815536
That's a very misinformed opinion

>>375815630
>>375815642
>>375815741
>responding to obvious bait

>>375815697
so how do you make FFXV combat interesting?
You forgot to add that.
Cause FFXV combat is single worst action rpg game I played.

>>375815741
Says weeb.

>>375815697
Is it reverse harem game?

>>375815642
The only jrpgs with good gameplay are tactical rpgs.

>>375815928
for that Cidny should've been protagonist

>>375815792
>so how do you make FFXV combat interesting?
Actually implement weapon damage modifiers in a significant way.
Remove healing or make it so that potions and shit are poisonous if you spam them so you have to wait inbetween cures or you'll poison yourself for a set amount of time and can't heal until the poison effect is gone.
Remove Parries.
Add a stamina meter.
Make magic worthwhile.
Strict timing on combos and make it so you do less damage for each individual attack but have attacks get stronger as you successfully combo, so the bigger the combo, the higher the total damage bonus.

Or make it turn based.

>>375816148
>Or make it turn based.
whoa whoa, easy there anon, that's too groundbreaking of decision. People may be not ready for that yet.

>>375816148
>Make magic worthwhile.

Did we play the same game?
Magic is overpowered as fuck in XV
>Get a common drop from normal magitek solider
>turn it into a spell that hits for damage cap 5 times consecutively

And you can do this really early in the game, magic wrecks everything even at a low player character level.

>>375815282
Trails in the sky has similar system.

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>>375809916
Radiant Historia.
>Enemies are in a grid
>Knocking them into each other with displacement attacks causes them to take damage together from further attacks.
>To make the most of it you must either wait for characters to get simultaneous turns or intentionally delay their turns so they attack together
>Intentionally delaying turns causes you to miss out on attacks and increases the damage your party takes

Suddenly battles aren't a cakewalk but not hideously punishing. Why haven't more games done this /v/?

>>375815070
Good idea, but they didn't go far enough with it, stat modifiers are to low to give you significant downsides to equip spells and game is overal to easy to besides couple of optional bosses to make cmbos even matter. Characters are to similar stat wise, with the only weak wizard dying halfway through the game.

>>375816518
>Why haven't more games done this /v/?
Grand Knights History had very similar mechanics outside of simultaneous turns, which are used for combination attacks between a spellcaster and a weapon user if they have the appropriate ability.

>>375809916
I would say that vagrant story got pretty close to a fun combat system. Also an absolutely horrific yet detailed workshop weapons system and timed chain combos.

>>375809916
You don't, because then it's not a JRPG.

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>>375809916
adding more beef to the gameplay

>>375813145
You seem to have posted a picture of Echidna, when you should've posted Alleyne. Try to get it right next time.

>>375813145
>>375813715
>>375817176
Let's all just agree that it isn't Leina or Cattelya. How they make the main girl the ugliest I will never understand.

>>375817575
I like Leina's armor. If only it was worn by anyone else.

Personality wise I like Airi the best

>>375817575
Leina is fucking hot though. Sure she is retarded but her body is fucking hot.
I want to breed her doggystyle like the bitch she is.

Her personality and body all combined make me want to completely dominate her and mate with her like a wild lustful animal.

>>375815307

The character building comes from the skill inheritance in your main 1 to 3 personas. Most likely your single main persona. Every other persona will have tiny spell libraries, and every time you change your main persona through fusion a lot of the spells you've accumulated will persist, and the ones you really want you'll specifically avoid losing in fusion, thus constraining your development pathways.

>>375817815
That hairstyle though.

>>375816663
Sounds fun, I'll give it a go later.

>>375817903
Perfect for using as handlebars while fucking her doggystyle.

>>375817815
Have you looked at her head though? Problem with her body being hot is that pretty much everyone's body is hot in Queen's Blade. Meanwhile her face is bland looking and her hair is a hideous atrocity. She might be fuckable with a bag on but at that point I'd rather fuck Echidna/Risty/Sigui/someone who looks nice from the neck up.

>>375817176
>>375817764
my two favorites

>>375810557
Most of the time I die to the "weak ass cannon fodder", while boss fights feel way too easy.
What games do you play?

>>375818115
Eh. To each their own.

I also really like Sigui. Hot nuns are my fetish.

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>>375809916
>Queens Blade
>Qwaser
>Manyuu Hikenchou
all this great Ecchi,... it's been so long since we last had good Ecchi like that
>>375812787
good, the new girls sucked
>>375813145
pic related is actual best girl

>>375818613
She must fuck like a wild animal

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>>375809916
What I'd love for jap rpg's made with Western fantasy is to have a bit more variety. Expand into folklore besides having giant knights, dragons and deformed people up the ass. Also have some fucking Coat of Arms for your cities for fuck sakes.

>>375809916
Tactical RPG.
Have percentage of hitting depend on unit position. Have spells and tech that can only be used on units in a specific position. Add stances that lower stats to boost others stats, or shit like that. Real hazard conditions. The battleground change during the battle. Units that can spawn randomly during battles, either on your side, on the foe's or neutrally, depending on your choices or even actions in battle. There is a lot you can do to make things interesting.

>>375818830
Try The Last Remnant.
>>375818925
All of those things have been done already.