Accessibility in Fighting Games

Accessibility means lowering standards.

It wont bring people in and it'll turn off old players.

I'm bad at fighting games, but I still put in the effort to learn and try to get better.
If the game would hand me stuff on a silver platter like this I'd have less impulse to actually try and learn to actually learn the game and its mechanics.
Making tutorials and training modes better like Guilty Gear recently did, is a better way of handling things in my opinion.
Fighting games shouldn't sacrifice their complexity as that is what makes them special and appealing in the first place.

NIGGER DAGGER

>>375763530
Fuck accessibility and fuck casuals.
If fucking SFV still isn't enough, then nothing is going to get casuals to play fighting games.
Fighting games are inherently a non-causal genre.

>>375763530
Combos aren't really the essence of a fighting game. It's position and timing.
Combos only serve as a barrier to entry not a sign of skill

>>375763530
The biggest reason why a fighting game would have any longevity is if it has depth and a lot of stuff to dig through and learn. Without that, it would be sort of shitty.

max is the biggest chucklefuck on the planet. insufferable piece of shit

It already exists. Games like JBA ASB have auto combos if you spam weak attacks, and almost all the BB games have had a style mode for shitters.

>>375763530
Just shortened inputs.

>>375763530
>Max
He has this video every time a new fighting comes out.

>>375763530
Accessibility IS bad, see Rising Thunder.

QoL improvements - good
Dumbing shit down - bad

Here's the deal for these games: The best fighting game tutorials have been in the latest GG and arguable Skullgirls. Both are way more robust than anything else, but are still scant resources for newcomers to the genre/series.

How about seeing how you can improve players rather than reduce the game?

>>375763530
Fighting games are made for those who wish to put in the ffort to give it their all in every fight
if you don't want to put in any effort and want auto shit, don't play fighting games, it defeats the whole purpose of fighting games
practice makes perfect and anyone can do it, it depends on the player's determination and their passion for the game
those are the ones of players who enjoy fighting games the most, don't take that away from them

>>375763758
No, it doesn't. There is such a thing as a happy medium.

There is a prevailing logic on /v/- and in the fighting game community too- that accessibility is mutually exclusive with complexity. A well designed game keeps a wide entry and a high skill ceiling.

>>375763758
this

>we want a broader audience

Never a good thing.

>>375763530
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTdQ7Xx4Q34&feature=youtu.be

>>375764953
Except that kind of game has yet to be made.

>>375765091
what about smash bros.?

>>375764953
>A well designed game keeps a wide entry and a high skill ceiling.
What is Street Fighter 4.

Fighting games already have autocombos and that doesn't stop them from being good games or having competition. Look at P4AU, UNiEL. This is not new to anime fighters and relying on autocombo isn't going to win you any competitions.

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>Developers expect you to rotate the stick a full 360 degrees of rotation to pull off a move
>In a game where the up direction is also jump

This the only legitimate bullshit that exists in fighting games. Everything else is easy to learn in a couple of minutes especially now that every modern fighting game has an annoyingly generous input buffer.

>>375765091
Melee comes pretty damn close.

Okay so I preordered SFV when it came out and I was very excited for it. It would be my first real foray into fighting games. I watched some videos online and started playing. But... I wasn't able to stick with it. It took me about a day to figure out how to hadouken and it wasn't even consistent. Despite days of trying, I was unable to do moves that required two circles, the Z movement and so on. I gave up on it.

I did play the Rising Thunder alpha and I thought it was extremely fun. I am disappointed that it doesn't exist anymore.

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>>375765161
I know what you're doing there, but Smash Bros is a party game. It was not made for competitive 1v1s.

>>375765248
Melee is the worst fighting game there ever was. Hitstuns and slippery physics breaking doesn't make a party game anymore competitive.

>>375763530
Accessibility is one of the worst things to happen in video games.

Marvel doesn't need accessibility options, Marvel 3 already had that covered.

H S Air M Air M Air H Air S Super was the easiest combo known to man; my fucking 2 year old baby cousin can do that.

Literally ALL they have to do is take Ultimate Marvel 3's gameplay and fucking BALANCE IT so the same five characters aren't used all the fucking time. They're halfway there taking out the Morridoom SOUL FIST HIDDEN MISSILES spam from 3, just make it two characters with one assist at a time and the game would be amazing.

>>375765002
>single player

>>375765091
Super Mario. Anybody can pick it up and play and play it well. But dedicated players can reach a higher skill setting to reduce their timing.

Or, if you want specifically a fighting game example, Street Fighter II. I'd also argue Smash Bros., but that triggers fighting game purists.

>>375764819
Rising Thunder was fun desu
I miss it.

>>375765443
>but that triggers fighting game purists
No it triggers fighting game try hards.

>>375765530
Problem with that shill game is both the f2p model and that they forgot to put skin over their robots.

>>375765208
>what is buffering

>>375765332
Good thing you were voted the supreme arbiter of competitions or else I would have totally been misled by the evidence pointing to the contrary.

If anything, Melee still suffers from inaccessibility when it comes to new players trying to go from casual to competitive.

>>375765332
And yet they do.
How about that

>>375763530
Let auto combos be a thing but make them single player only

>>375765624
>casual to competitive

Found your problem. Trying to play a smash game competitively.

>>375765530
I miss the people's champion Talos, but that's about it.

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>>375765602
>Having to throw out an empty move just so you can pull off some fucked up input

Bad design flim flam.

>>375765634
Retards will play with a basketball and think it's a globe of the world. They can do it, but we'll still laugh at them.

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>>375764650
Oldschool Monster Hunter did the positioning and timing better than most fighters out there with just simple combos

>>375763530
This is a good thing, believe it or not. Someone will always find better combos than the auto-combos, and thus good players will get rewarded for diligence.
Noobs can play the game at a reasonably novice level while focusing more on growing their neutral, matchups, etc.

It reverses the natural order of BnB > Neutral/Oki > Matchups and goes Neutral/Oki > Matchups > BnBs. It's not that bad.

I say this as a guy that loves super technical combos. Old Johnny MF recoin loops, Hazama Hiren loops, 4xEWGF, Fafnir Loops, Venom setups, etc. I love technical shit and I see it as a good thing.

>>375763530
The biggest problem with new fighting game players is that they want to do everything in their power to not think. Stuff like mashable autocombos means they can do a baby combo without having to think, but the fact of the matter is that against a halfway decent player who IS thinking, its gonna take more than mashing light punch to actually open them up, especially in a highly mobile game like Marvel, which means that effectively nothing has changed.
Unless they somehow implement a mashable auto-play-neutral-for-me button or an auto-teach-me-what-the-fuck-I-should-actually-be-doing button, this shit just strikes me as pointless.

>>375765208
That's why you buffer 720s with something that will prevent/delay the jump, or just let the jump rock and do the 720 on the way down.
Also, technically, you don't even really need two full circles, since a 360 will generally count with just 6248, without the need to go back to 6.

>>375764645
SFV has easier combos across the board for all characters, granted, but at least there's no mash button to get combo like MvC:I and KoFIV or simplified inputs.

>>375765720
yet only incompetent jerkoffs complain about it

still it's totlaly possibly to do it standing and with no buffers.

>>375765720
it only an empty move if you're dumb enough to put one out.

>>375765720
Well, most people that aren't shit buffer it into approach.

>>375765720
you can also buffer during blockstun, the enemy's super flash, etc
I assume you've never explored the tactical depth of a grappler before

>>375763530
Fuck maximillian dood. Racist cuck.

>>375765704
Crow was cool

>>375763530
Under Night in Birth did accessibility the best but no one plays it.

>>375763530
It doesn't matter in the long run cause casuals will always complain. They lack fundamentals, which good players have.

Real talk, if you were playing a fighting game on PC and someone flawlessly combo you with great timing and knew how you counter you every single time would you say that person had great "skill"? Now what if they used a program like autohotkey to do the combos they already knew but with a single button press (and maybe a cancel key with autohotkey to abort just in case) instead of manually inputting the combos themselves every single time? Would you say that would somehow lessen their knowledge and timing/counter just because they were smart enough to turn a 10 button combo into 1 or would you say the idea of learning complex combos is just stupid game design that somehow got stuck from when games used to be trial and error to prolong the playtime of otherwise stupidly short video games?

You can call it skill all you want but at the end of the day if a game have to do something stupid to prolong itself then that is a red flag right there.

>>375765757
You are a dumb insular cunt

>>375765942
This. I don't even play grapplers and I found every orifice of gameplay I could jam a 720 into when I flashed up Zangief or Tager. There's a lot of places to mash this shit in.

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>>375763530
>Sirlin is here to save fighting games

>>375763530
Making fighting games easier to pick up and play is fine, just that developers usually go full retard when they try to make a game more beginner friendly and ruin the game for everyone.

Don't try to remove skill inputs all together, just stick to easier ones like quarter circles and DP motions.

Don't try to remove combos or have a "Retard" mode where you can mash one button to do a full combo, just give characters a Dial A combo or have an easy to understand cancel system (Ex. Light-> Heavy -> Fierce -> Skill). These easy combos should do good damage but not be optimal.

There's also a lot that could be said about implementing how movement works in general, but it's too difficult to describe in a single post. But generally devs need to make movement feel natural. Adding in attacks that move forward is also very helpful for beginners like dash attacks.

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>>375766247
>Automatically reverse throws
>Do nothing

Wait what?

>>375766183
You could argue that it takes away another thing to think about during a game, freeing up mental resources for other tasks. This in turn makes the other aspects of the game easier as well.

>>375763530
Accessibility isn't bad, dumbing down is bad. The issue is as Max said in the beginning, these two are unfortunately confused as being the same with most developers. Max is right, this autocombo bullshit is Capcom being lazy yet again.
>>375764493
>>375764645
100% agree with these anons. Casuals will never be satisfied until we boil down the genre into purely mash X Arkham combat with no special inputs or frame links.

Fighting games are inherently hard, they follow a lot of oldschool conventions. Part of the fun of getting gud at fightans is that they're hard in the first place, making it more rewarding. Magic series in the vs games was already a simplified version of SF combos, same with qcf+PP instead of qcf, qcf+P. Dumbing down magic series into autocombo is a fucking joke, this is a very slippery slope we're on.

BOTTOM LINE: Providing good tutorials is the right way to go, Guilty Gear and Skullgirls got this right.

>>375765872
I feel like SFV is all you could ask for as a casual player in terms of gameplay.
Its flawed due to capcom's incompetence but tis still a fun game.

>>375766307
There is no suck thing as a skill input. Its rote memory that requires skill

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>>375763530
I mean Fighting games are more accessible than they have ever been. There's no more extremely weird inputs and more or less every fighting game uses the same motions.

>>375765659
This is a great idea, the people that use auto combos have no interest in learning the game and will likely give up playing online after getting their shit kicked in by players that actually care to learn fighting games.

>>375766307
>have a "Retard" mode
they should or remove combos to make it easier

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>>375763530
Smash 4 Ryu is the perfect example of how to design a moveset catered to both casual and experienced players.

>>375766184
>smashfag triggered that his game got compared to being a retard

>>375765562
True. They are mad that Smash Bros. is probably the most popular fighting game these days.

And you know why? Probably because of Nintendo characters, yeah. But also the accessibility.

>>375766886
I think you mean one of the most popular party games. League and Overwatch still beats smash in that regard.

Personally I think fighting games next to explain themselves better, its no secret that for the longest time they offered no tutorial or explanation for their systems. It's especially bad for anime fighting games where they go bonkers with different mechanics that are never explained and you need to go to fucking Mizuumi wiki to figure out how it works.

Plus, fighting games generally work under the assumption that you know how to play fighting games. You might of seen that webm of a guy trying to do a super by pressing punch 3 times instead of pushing 3 punch buttons at the same time. There's a lot that we take for granted but new players don't understand at all. Why is it that most other games have a tutorial that teaches you how to do extremely basic things like how to move and jump but fighting games don't offer anything?

>Just fucking teach people to play, holy shit

the mistake people make is thinking that the inputs are the hard part of fighting games. doing auto combo bullshit doesn't really fix anything and adds an annoying thing for veteran players to to play around or fall into bad habits.

fighting games require dedication pure and simple, as its game knowledge that you need to amass, not just your ability to execute combos. its learning footsies, wake up game, macro play through predictions, and also learning the vast amount terminology that games with the genre in general that makes you good at fighters, not auto combo garbage for people that just want to mash.

you didn't need to be able to plink in SF4 for example to be any good at it, sure you may have had a ceiling if you didn't do 1f links but it didn't explicitly keep you out of playing at a high level, mostly just a pro level. like anything its game knowledge and experience that makes you good.

>>375766247
>>375766342
Translation: Figuring out how to program special move inputs and input buffering is a lot harder than one would assume so I took the easy way out and made a babbys first fightan game with single button inputs and nobrain throw escapes.

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>>375766342
JUST LET GO BRO

>>375766881
I don't really play smash. They are huge autistic cunts.

I just know you are one of those as swipes that think Gm fighting game can only fit in a very narrow category

>>375767092
Yes, I believe those who try to play smash competitively are because they are too much of a manchild to graduate from their baby mode party game.

It's like trying to enter Nascar and saying playing Mario Kart makes you just as good

>>375765331
If it took you a day to figure out how to hadouken then you're not bad at fighting games you're just bad at games in general.
Your opinion is worthless for real.
It's the simplest most iconic motion for a reason

>>375767260
Smash is a fighting game deal with it twat. Its at every major fighting game tournament.

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>>375766247
this. I never managed to get into fighting games because of retarded "memorize this" inputs. Fantasy Strike on the other hand takes everything fun from fightan (combos, positioning, reaction) and makes it REALLY easy to do, but still keeping the game deep and "smart".
Everytime you get hit is because you fucked up or your opponent bested you in the mind game and I think its absolute glorious.
also its very fun in lan parties and couch play with friends

>>375767582
The special olympics exist, too.

>>375767065
>Full supermeter from an auto reverse throw

this game sounds tight

>>375767603
Inputs are not to blame. You just blame your general lack of game knowledge on not being able to do them. Even if you knew the inputs you would have no idea of when to use that move or when to punish or when to link it and would lose just the same.

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>>375767065
>>375766342
its actually really hard to do, im trash at the game and only did it competitively like twice
throws are almost instant and you are 99% of the time pressing a button, be it movement or attacks

>>375765624
the creators of melee literally said they didn't want it to be a hardcore fighting game, which is why they removed a bunch of melees shit in future games in the series.

get over it you fucking manchild, you can't even argue it. you can argue that people made it into a competitive game despite this fact, but you can't argue its actual intentions as it relates to fighting games.

Fighting games takes a while to get good at.

But so do other games, so why the fuck are fighting games singled out? People send literally thousands of hours honing their skill at Dota but its impossible to get them to spend 5 minutes in the lab practising inputs. There are people who play FPS games so much they've memorised all the maps perfectly but they still can't remember how to do a hadoken

>>375767709

>this game sounds retarded

Fixed that for you.

>>375767704
Pathetic.
To jealously guard you stagnant general form things that could benefit it and make it fresh.
You are the worst kind of gamer

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>>375767830
I just said I can do it in fantasy strike. I am very good at fighting games without this shit like burning blood or other stupid anime fightan
I learned about reacting and using anti-airs, 50/50s and all this shit in one day because the input barrier was down

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>>375763530
What fighting games need is a way to show people how they failed, and to teach them how they can overcome that particular type of challenge.

>>375767901
Because autists like the designs/concept of fightan games, especially due to their popularity, but don't ever want to bother to learn something that they don't think makes sense.

Yes, you alienate it's actual audience done of the time. Marvel 2 players dropped marvel 3

Have two separate modes, one with accessibility and one without so everyone is happy

>>375763530
Drop the complex inputs for special and hyper moves and replace them with ones that don't require training just to activate. There, I made fighting games more accessible without compromising the depth.

>>375767990
>I just said I can do it in fantasy strike.
Against what? The training mode punching bag?

>>375763530
No. The bar is low already, much lower compared to the older games. If you cannot get better at it, there's something lacking on your side. not on the game.

Short answer: Git gud and stop sucking

>>375768037
What doesn't make sense about it?

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>>375768058
>Drop the complex inputs for special and hyper moves and replace them with ones that don't require training just to activate.
That already exists.

>>375768093
>what is playing with other people
>in real life

>>375767901
Because if you lose in a fighting game, it's because you weren't better than your opponent. You don't get to blame your teammates when you lose, its all on you.

>>375768218
What the fuck are you even trying to say? Is this a new anti-smash maymay?

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>>375768042
>auto-mode better be disabled in ranked

hopefully they're not this stupid

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YO DOODS HYPE
LESSSSSSS GOOOOOOOOO
I'M SHIT AT FIGHTIN GAMES THANKS FOR THE DONATIONS DOODS YOU GOT THE TOUCH

>>375768416
The cow goes moooo.

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A crippled can play Street Fighter at high level, using his tongue.

How about you?

>>375764645
its why they complain about people not taking Melee seriously as a fighter

BECAUSE IT ISN'T DUE TO SMASHING BUTTONS LIKE A FAGGOT!

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>these are max's fans

>>375768575
People Melee seriously as a fighter because its not a fighting game.

>>375764681
Can you really call the Jojo games that aren't httf fighting games?

>>375768294
>dude BRO LETS PLAY FANTASY STRIKE

no one has ever said this

Unless you make the game 100% pure RNG dedicated players will find ways to outperform casual ones.

>>375768525
Ok, so how does having diagonal down-left to diagonal up-right activate a move improve the gameplay over having it be something like back + button X? I've tried getting friends into sf4 and while hadoukens and other quarter circles are easy for them, they usually give up on anything harder than shoryukens.

>>375767065
So if you don't actually need to do the throw to stop them from blocking, then why would you ever throw?

>>375768591
Jesus fuck I can already imagine which one of them is the braaaap shitposter.

>>375765872
The thing is though, in kof14 and persona, auto combo has shit damage. So while casuals feel like they're doing something, they're just hurting themselves

>>375767889
that and the series creator calls it an action platformer and NOT a fighting game

come back when smash has:

lifebars
a 99 second timer
shit that can't be abused that would have been patched out nowadays

>>375768690
Based on what criteria?

>>375768784
The chicken goes BAWK

>>375768891
Based on what the creator of the game has said.

>>375763530
>Just spam light punch to do all of the combos at full damage

Finally it's a fighting game /v/ can play.

>>375768886
The funny part is, smash CAN have at least the first two.

But the autist tournament community never use stamina mode. And you'd think the create a level feature would be used more to fix most of their competitive problems.

fighting games are tough and auto combos are still going to make you shit if you dont put in the time.

have fun though, it takes awhile to get good and most fgc are ruthless and love to talk shit

Max is a faggot

Stop posting his cancer here.

>>375768161
>Why can't I just PRESS THE BUTTON to do the move like in every other game hurr
>Why won't my move come out
>why are combos so hard
>How do I dp?

>>375767901
fighting is 1v1, team based games offer more room for error

>>375768964
how can you take it seriously as something it isn't?

so what? now if i really want to think basketball is just like horse racing because they are both sports?

FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>>375768341
What about other competitive games? Like, in a racing game its you vs 7 other people and if you lose then they just did better than you. Sure if its something like Mario Kart you could blame items, but there are plenty of racing games that don't use items.

You also have stuff like sports games, music/rhythm games, stuff with 1v1 duels like For Honor and SoulsBorne... but fighting games are somehow don't count?

>>375768964
If Miyamoto says mario world is a first person shooter does that make it so?

>>375769195
Too extreme of a case.

>>375769009
>you'd think the create a level feature would be used more to fix most of their competitive problems.
This is something I've wondered about as well actually. Granted they'd have to make sure each console has the stages, but if I remember right they can just be uploaded or sent through online.

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>>375768905

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>enter blackbelt tournament with no experience or prior training
>get your ass kicked
uhg can we please casualize, this is unfair and do they really expect me to actually try to learn to fight?

>>375769156
autism

Smash 4 is a much better game than Melee anyway.

>>375769009
i've tried it with stamina, it doesn't work well

but could you imagine all the changes that people would make if they were locked in a box level so no ringouts and forced to GULP actually FIGHT EACH OTHER?

>>375769195
he'd be incorrect due to the actual meaning of fps

>>375769258
All the solutions proposed to the community has always been shot down because you have the top autists of the scene who don't want to lose their prize status and learn the game in a different matter. The best way to uproot it all is if an equally autist community came about and played smash a completely different way.

>>375769307
i don't care, they are all fun to me
i don't play they at autism levels like 99% of you fags do

its what happens when you do that shit in a game that was never meant to be a high tier thing; it turns to shit and isn't fun anymore

Why does smash trigger /V/'s autism so much? Does it matter if it's considered a fighting game?

>>375769320
Boxed in stage with maybe a platform or two with stamina mode on would be a fresh experience to the genre.

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>>375769039
cmon bro i got some epic videos and i stream on twitch, please feel free to donate and sub. i know i've never entered a tournament but i offer some EPIC shit.
SHINE ON DOOD

>>375768058
Every character in Marvel has a hyper that is basically the hadoken motion but with any two buttons how easier can it get?

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There will be ALWAYS persons that are better then the others in EVERYTHING. Fucking millenials are too retarded too understand this simple thing because of the "hurr everyone is special and equal" crap that teachers tell then, and altought is beauty in the paper, it fucking denies reality.

So, we will have auto combo. Will this make casuals beat pro players? FUCKING NO. Pro players will train and use it to get fucking even better at fighting games, or those scrubs think this will be available only for casuals? That the game will give you a test, and you will have this function only if you score bad?

This will only set the skill to even higher, the only way to make a casual be on the same level of a PRO, is cripling everyone and making "be good" ilegal, like a Jakenpo game were victory is based on luck and not skill.

Holy shit, I hate when people denie reality. It makes me so mad it hurts.

There's literally nothing wrong with auto-combo. Most of the people that use it don't know about, nor care about the more in depth mechanics of the game. It's not even hard to beat if you're even remotely good. Sure I could wail on my little cousin in Blazblue for an hour, but I doubt he'd even play that long without assists.

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>>375769432
>it turns to shit and isn't fun anymore
t. guy who couldn't figure out how to wave-dash.

>>375769590
you tellin me those t-ball and taekwondo trophies i got growing up didn't mean shit?

everyones a winner, r-right ha ha?

>>375769186
It's not the same in a racing game, there's a lot of people.
In a fighting game, its 1v1 and that makes it a much more personal experience, consciously or not.

People do get salty in For Honor for similar reasons. PvP in Souls is autism and shouldn't be in the game at all but that's just imo

>>375763530
why talk about this when you have tekken 7 soon which will be clearly better.

>>375769195
>we now know better than the creator of the game
k, smash fags are literally beyond reason

besides what you put forth would never be said and is hyperbolic to try and prove a point

>>375768591
>these are the people giving him thousands of dollars in his shitty streams

>>375763530
Making games like this easier for casuals is death to the game and here's why.
Normies generally don't play fighting games. They're a very niche genre like MMO. When you dumb your game down to draw in casuals you alienate the fanbase you already have, making them not purchase the game, and at the same time you barely bring in any new players because its a niche genre to begin with. This is the exact reason modern WoW is dead

>>375769432
I don't even like smash. I'm just pointing out that the competitive scene for Smash are autists.

>>375769745
i consider the time trial racing leaderboards more of the competitive part, unless its shit like nascar but that shits gay.

pvp in souls is autism though ill give you that. and for honor is stupid

>>375763530
WHATS UP DUDES

>>375769807
>>375768825
>>375768591
its funny because his fans look up to him like hes some guru. but he gets shit wrong all the time. him making a video for discussion about fighting games is hilarious because i could imagine what the comments are like just from that image

Fighting games should have a regular mode and a "noob mode" to make it like Smash Bros so normal people can enjoy it too.

>>375769574
Yeah that's a step in the right direction but like I said earlier in the thread, anything past a hadouken or charge is going to be a huge barrier to entry, see: sf4 Guile's supers or KoF in general.

>>375763530
Changing the input isn't going to change how accessible the game is, but it will definitely change the viability of the move during execution.
Think about how classic grappler characters require full circular motions in order to do command grabs, those attacks are really strong compared to standard grabs. If the input was made simpler or shorter, it makes it easier to churn out the special move faster as well.

>>375769638
i never cared for it
it makes playing against friends not fun, asshole

plus, all the people at my locals are fucking 10 years younger than me, all loud ass black kids too. all the people who play any other fighters are at least 25+ and white, cept the one cool black kid who wanted to learn how to Last Blade 2. we played that shit for a good while.

instead of casualizing the game, why not casualize a few characters and call them beginner characters?

>Auto combo is just a basic Punch Punch Special

Yeah, have fun getting anywhere online with that. Why is this such a big deal? I'm starting to think that the people bitching about it actually got their ass beat at some point by someone who used auto combo.

How does this affect anything?

>>375769951
Story mode.

>>375765881
suck a dick faggot

>>375770036
Ryu says hello. One of the most beginner friendly characters that actually pays off as you learn to use him better.

>>375770036
that's just Roo

People who are against auto-combos are actually scrubs who think they are good.

The truth is it's a non-factor. It's a shitty suboptimal combo for complete casuals to experience the game from day 1.

It's great. You can fuck around with the game and if you like what you see you actually learn it. Better than having people mash and not see the cool stuff they can do and drop it after a week.

>>375769993
>that makes it not fun
maybe for you
>most of the smash players around me are urban youth while other fighter players are white
Weird, it's usually the opposite from what I've seen. Still though:
>not playing both

>>375770036
Because they jump online without knowing a single command input and then complain about it. Exactly the same thing where people go into games like Call of Duty online then ask over the mic "How do I use grenades?"

I have a lot of hatred for this man's content and his fanbase.
More than PewDiePie because I like fighting games.

This fucking dude, never likes to plug actual good players to his fans. If he really is "bringing people into fgc" then he would point his fans into the right direction IF they really wanted to get better at them.
This man just offers nothing but retarded clickbait for 12 year olds.

CHINGER

Why are short and meaningless auto-combos such a big complaint? If you're so good, this should be giving you easy wins. Get an easy win, and move on to someone else, not seeing a problem.

>>375769490
Then there would just be more bounces than a sol mirror match since the game is inherently designed to be about sending the opponent flying and killing them with the environment instead of keeping them up close and killing them yourself.
Most people seem to think smash is some incredibly technically deep game when it's really just people intentionally making it hard on themselves by doing obfuscatingly difficult inputs so the opponent can't read them and then the opponent does the same. It's like both players doing nothing but airdashing back and forth in melty blood and throwing out a poke every 3 seconds instead of rushing each other down and spamming 2A or IAD jC because they each want to make sure the other one knows about the incredibly deep mindgames they're doing. Obviously the concepts of a fighting game are there but they're tacking an unnecessary layer onto it.
What I'm trying to say is smash is fun but everyone that plays the game makes it not fun.

>>375770178
most of the younglings play smash mods

Refuse to listen to a dude who says nigger on stream and gets paid for it

>>375770136
I mean characters designed to have autocombos, basic inputs, and decent toolkits, basically a few more levels of casual

Can someone PLEASE tell me the best way to pull off moves with a "Z" shape on an Xbox controller?

>>375770558
-> V ->

>>375770558
if its street fighter 4 or 5 just press down-right twice

if any other game i'm not helping you

>>375770440
Like project M? That's interesting. Most of the pm player sand smash players in general I've seen tend to be white stem students or graduates with the occasional asian. Maybe it's different in different parts of the country?

>>375770558
forward then hadouken motion ending in downright

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>>375770558
Forward>down>down and forward

>>375770558
Try pushing right twice first and then doing it. Alternatively just wiggle your stick back and forth between the down and right positions until the move comes out

>>375770558
You see, this is my issue. Why have this input that terrifies no-fighters when quarter-circle back + punch is still open for ryu/ken? What does that add?

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>>375768591
A lot of these read like they came from a /v/ fighting game thread.

>>375770690
PM is filled with left cucks that think everything is racist.

There is literally nothing wrong with autocombos as long as they aren't competitive with mid to high level execution combos.

>>375770872
Because its the fucking easiest motion to do because you dont even need to lift up from moving forward.

>>375770912
That fucking sucks. I guess its a good thing it died then.

>>375770558
If you can do a QCF you can do a Z. Press forward then do half a QCF or press punch in the middle.

>>375770558
Foward Down Foward.

Nah man fighting games are fine how they are, where 99% of the games in the genre have less than 30 people playing them, highly anticipated sequels are subject to the whims of movie companies looking to advertise their latest movies and 80% of the community plays one game that is universally considered inferior to predecessors but the publisher has their fingers in every tournament so everyone has to play it.

The irony is that there are fighting games that are both more accessible and infinitely more deep than SFV and MvC3, like Melty or T7.
Of course when you say this you just get an outpouring of slighted SF players who can't believe your audacity to not play the League of Legends of fighting games.

>>375770872
It's supposed to leave you open to your opponent's attack.

>>375770996
Yet it's superior to forward-downforward down because?

>>375771158
>quickly says his anime game is deep

And there goes your entire post

>>375771202
Shouldn't the start-up frames accomplish that?

>>375771219
How is Melty not deep in comparison to any other game on that list?

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Is it worth playing the different versions, or just go with AA?

dont NRS games practically have dial-a-combos with ez inputs like back forward or down right? just fucking play those.

>>375771217
because then you're just going into a crouch. Half the reasons for inputs is that they require you to be moving a different way or leave you with your control stick pointing a certain way, possibly opening you up.

>>375771063
Games good other smash games are worse than it but the communitys bad same for all smash titles.

>>375771219
I must be Nostradamus because this is the exact braindead post I knew was going to be the first response

>>375771158
>T7
That ain't even out yet. I also feel like MB is esoteric rather than deep, you just need to look at a wiki for all the mechanics

>>375763530
every fighting game i ever played has a "easy" mode that you press a button to do a special atack

you just have to trigger it when selecting a character

WHY doesnt casual use it?

WHYYY?

Is it possible to wave dash with an arcade stick?

>>375768573
Brolylegs is pretty fun to watch in tournaments.

>>375771326
If you think you will find anyone to play any old versions that not gonna happen next major go look near the trashcans for the few aa players.

>>375771357
>the game's good but the community is bad, same for all smash titles.
Yeah I guess that's how it is, isn't it?

I'm >>375770558 thank you dudes

>>375769020
>what are 1p games

>>375765404
Am I a brainlet if I can't tell when a move is good or bad unless someone tells me? My observational skills are pretty shit

This is the same conversation people were having back when SFxT was ruffling feathers with its "gem" system being made to help new players hang and the "x-factor" system back in MvC3. The problem is that whatever little bit of level playing field a rookie has comes with an expiration date. After that date, the advanced players adapt, learn, and take advantage of all those "accessibility" systems made for beginners, and then the entire meta game reaches levels that make it "inaccessible"

accessibility doesn't beat time training and competition with other players. not for long, anyway.

Rising Thunder already did one button specials. Shitters were sill shit. Bitchers still bitched. And the game failed.

>dark souls was hard but critically acclaimed and gained mass appeal
>fighting games barely keeping itself afloat even though it's been around forever

Anyways, I don't think fightan games are in actually real trouble considering the size of evo, as well as all the content out for it.

Sure, it's not hitting bigger than league or some other shit, but it doesn't have to. I think the best thing that could attract newcomers is by having a strong community. Everything else just adds to that.

>>375771540
I wouldn't personally call Melee good anymore simply cuz PM did it so much better and added the good elements of brawl but its alright.Sm4sh does some good things but it also takes steps backwards and ends up very different to the point where it isn't the same kind of game as PM or Melee so I just leave it as its own thing.

>>375771219
>art style dictates gameplay depth

>>375766247
>>375767603
>>375767990
Reminder the devs ask for PATREON money for game access
On top of that characters are locked behind donation tiers
5$ for 6 characters
10$ for 7 characters
25$ for all 9 characters
Thats right folks
Also enjoy your player base of ~250 people

>>375771695
>bought by industry giant
>made its creators millions
I wish I could fail this hard

>>375767990
What the fuck. Weebs truly are a miracle of the universe.

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>>375763530
I don't mind auto combos and stuff since they give my brothers a chance. Making stuff too accessible can ruin a game though.

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>>375771985
the game is not released you mongoloid
it will be a one time purchase when its done, its a fucking pre-alpha as of yet
also they already said that if you do not have the money to spend, just back it and remove the pleadge to play
thats what I did

>>375772028
>and they were never seen again

>>375771845
Yeah smash4 made some needed improvements but also had some very strange decisions. I think what really needs to happen is for it to be handled by someone that's not fighting against the competitive scene. Let's be honest normalfags won't not buy it because its as fast as melee or has more balanced characters and a few more non-gimmicky stages, just leave in the option to play with items and add in fan-favorite characters and they'll be happy.

>>375771884
Anime style is a fair indicator of a bad to mediocre game as Japanese devs realize people buy those games for the character design alone and so they no longer have any incentive to make a good game to go along with it.

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>>375771158
>T7
>accessible

How do I play the fightin game?

>>375772353
Ah yes, so street fighter: the movie: the game must be the deepest fighter right? It has the least anime artstyle you can have.

>>375772626
Havent played it. I understand you are being overly hyperbolic for the sake of your argument, but we're talking about anime games, and just because anime games are bad, doesnt mean non-anime games are all good.

I don't want to "study" frame data or "research" long, overly complex combo videos just to do slightly below average online.

Any game where you have to do homework in order to enjoy it is no longer a game.

>>375763758
No it doesn't, this is retarded. You can have a simplified control scheme that isn't optimal. Auto combos in Persona were very low damage compared to harder, optimal, combos. You don't see auto combos at higher levels of play because the damage sucks.

>>375772758
The problem with your statement is that anime games is already a poorly defined grouping of games that doesn't even qualify as a subgenre.

>>375772353
Oh please. Just because you dont like doesnt mean its bad.

French bread makes great fighting games.

>>375765091
What is Divekick?

>>375772353
people will actually respond to this earnestly

>>375773026
not a fighting game.

This may ruffle feathers, but I think combos are stupid.

Combos in Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Mortal Kombat, and the like can't be escaped or reacted to after the first hit. Two players can be equally good at reading opponent actions and scoring hits but the one that has practiced combos will do more damage. This is why spamming special moves is popular at low level play, because they provide less damage than a full combo would but more than a single hit can.

I greatly prefer fighting games that don't have long combos, so the gameplay is more about scoring hits than making conversions. Alternatively, games where the defending player can react while being hit, like in Killer Instinct.

>>375771397
It's been out in arcades for nearly 2 years.
>>375773082
Yes it is.

>try to get into fighting games since I had a blast being a shitter as a kid in SF2 and MK
>/v/ says that SFV is the ultimate babby fighting
>laod it up
>tutorial with Ryu and Ken
>oh good, at least I can grasp the concepts here
>literally only teaches you to hadouken, shoryuken and V-skill

dude what

>>375773109
I uniroincally recommend you play a Fight Night game then. Round 4 specifically.

>>375773081
It's a good way to set your expectations appropriately. More often than not Japs will give you character design and nothing else.

>>375772817
>Any game where you have to do homework in order to enjoy it is no longer a game.
this is probably the most idiotic thing I read on this board in months, congrats anon

>>375773161
GG, KoF XIV, and BB all had better tutorials honestly.

>>375773109
Good thing every fighting game has very simple basic combos made to do maximum damage for minimum effort

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>>375773302
GG is the only good game

>>375773225
Is that the boxing game? I could give it a try.

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>>375773423
I mean if that' how you feel. Sin is my boy though.

>>375773109
A lot of people feel that way. One of the things that turns people off from the genre is loosing half of your health from getting hit once, especially if the combo itself is so long you may as well put the controller down. Don't get me wrong practicing and pulling of combos can feel fulfilling but combo-heavy games can be a bit much.

>>375773308
But that doesn't stop someone from bodying me with an inescapable 50% combo that I'm sitting through for several seconds.

>>375768575
People don't consider Melee a fighter because of its cancerous community and their worship of "the pantheon" that try to skip tiers like they're anything special.

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>>375763530
>auto combo
No. Just remove 95% of combos.

In my mind, Fighting Games shouldn't be about pulling off long combos after memorizing a huge amount of inputs.

Fighting Games should be about Skill, Timing, Prediction.

I also think that special moves that require some bizarre and specific combination of inputs is a mechanic that's dated and archaic, from when arcades didn't have much inputs.

>>375765720

The whole point is to make it difficult for grapplers to do it 100% of the time. I say this as a grappler. People would hate the grappler archetype even more.

>>375763530

Not sure why you would want to attract people who clearly don't even like fighting games in the first place. I suck ass at fighting games. The ones I had the most fun with were Samurai Shodown and the early Soul Calibur games where they had that Chronicles of the Sword RPG-like mode. Oh, and I guess Toball No2 or whatever it was on the PS1.

Basically I like fighters when they have modes that don't play like a fighter. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure people who DO like fighters don't care for that kind of shit.

>>375773787
How do you feel about Dicekick? That game was pretty much made in response to what you're suggesting.

We just need better tutorials that's it. People can't wrap their hands around high level shit. Frame data, frame traps etc etc

>>375773740
>Fuck up
>Get punished
What do you expect? If you don't know what you're doing in a fight, you get devastated. Different games even have plenty of systems in place to avoid that shit anyway, provided you know how to use the tools correctly.

>>375773109
https://youtu.be/ZC03zZVO68E?t=481

>>375773787
You're right. Fix theses two issues and you'd greatly improve the genre.

>>375773740
There isn't many fighting games where you can't have a basic combo that deals 30%-50% of an opponent's life in a single simple combo

It's basically KI due to breakers and Blazblue wanting combos to last a really long time

High damage fighters are currently the in thing

>>375773787
Several fighting games tried to do what you wanted and they all died

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Fighting games need to be more like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZbgJy5mXfA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv0YTSXPYqo

not even memeing, 3s will always be my favorite

I really wish there was more character diversity in tournaments though

>>375773970
This.

The problem isn't fighting games being inaccessible, the problem is fighting game TUTORIAL are fucking dogshit 99% of the time.

>>375774052
I don't like the idea of the round ending because I fucked up 2-3 times. Skullgirls addresses this.

>>375773957
>Dicekick
Yeah, Divekick was fucking great. Big parts of it was made as a joke, but you strip the genre down to it's spine and you find out that 90% of the time, extra game mechanics are just about adding complexity, not depth.

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Looks like it's ARMS time to shine

>>375763530
I say making things easier to execute but not to the point of doing shit like one button dps and quarter circle command spds is fine.
But it should never lose depth in exchange of accessibility.

>>375774215
3S is the best worst fighting game ever made.

>>375774162
>Several fighting games tried to do what you wanted and they all died
Was that because of the concept though? Or was it the marketing, characters, artstyle, platform, etc.?

>>375765208
You do that rotation motion while your character is performing another move. You don't just do it raw, you cancel into it. But you knew that already and you're just baiting, right?

>>375773787
>Fighting
>isn't about route memorization and execution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZGLNpaaPzg

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I dont have problem about accesibility, it can be done in a good way but why fighting games?

Fighting games are like the most niche games ever as a genre and even among themself: if you are good in one game very little will work in another fighting game.

Plus the fanss themself barely want any change, its just like RTS games

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>>375774469
Took you long enough.

>>375774209
https://youtu.be/gTryNADmSQo?t=53

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>>375774882
>Fighting games are like the most niche games ever as a genre
What the fuck am I reading

>>375763530
solution

don't play capcom games anymore, literally all of their latest entries are pandering to a crowd that the series wasn't intended for.

SFV
RE7
DmC
and now MVCI

casuals/youtubers are a bad thing.

>>375774209
HFFT is one of my all time faves. They gave it a HD re-release a few years back but it got taken down from the marketplace for stupid license reasons.

Really wish they would remake it from scratch with lovely hand-drawn sprites and FUCKING BALANCE IT too. That would be my dream. JoJo's has gotten pretty popular these past few years, so it might even take off. I haven't played those dissidia looking jojo games, do the suck?

>>375775161
>RE7
Dumb over-the-shoulder babby detected. 7 is the most traditional RE since Zero.

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>>375773970
>>375774252

Frame data, footsies, spacing, character moving and falling speed, and all that is science beyond the game. It's about research, and if you begin a tutorial by telling casuals about that kind of stuff, they will just give up. Does first person shooters begin the game by telling you about the physics, antecipation, and speed bullet to hit a moving target? No, that is something only a very invested person do.

What we need, is to get pro gamers apart from casuals, something about levels, just like CS:GO. In CS:GO, you will begin playing just with people that plays for fun, and have to go a long way to actually stomp into a pro.

By doing that casuals will be happy, and pro gamers will be happy.

>>375765091
Soku

>>375766068
Nigga what, the only thing it has is an auto combo. Compared to xrd's dojo it's completely barebones.

>>375775295
It takes a larger player pool for that to happen. There aren't enough players online in most fighters to give you the gradient needed. Ontop of that, latency fucks fighting games the worst.

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you can't really pander to casuals in fightan games because casuals never last even when you give them auto combo stuff

the truth is, the only way to git gud at fightans is to get your ass kicked for hundreds if not thousands of matches and acquire knowledge and experience, and its easy enough in fightans since no one actually gives a fuck about ranked modes and everyone just hangs out in player lobbies fucking around, and casuals for some reason seem to hit ranked before anything else and just quit when they run into people just abusing online dudley tier lag combos to win constantly

>>375774209
Wow, that was fun to watch. It almost seems choreographed.

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Re-*cough* remember me guys?

>>375775295
trying to set them apart can be difficult as well, one problem with that is that higher skill players might end up purposefully seek out bottom of the barrel players to fight against to boost their ego
happened a shitton in tekken tag 2, when i was learning and wanted to fight someone i'd set up a beginner lobby because i wasn't confident enough for ranked. 9 times out of 10 the people that joined were far better and i learnt nothing from the fights because i got floored so hard

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So long as people are willing to acknowledge that fighting games having absolutely no mass market appeal is what is directly responsible for the deaths of all those franchises everyone is crying over, sure.


Street Fighter V managed to sell, what, one-fifth as many copies as Tekken 3? One-third as many as Mortal Kombat X? Barely outsold Dead or Alive 3?

Meanwhile every other fighting game is lucky to have 200 people playing it total.

I can't fucking imagine why the genre is so dead

>>375763530
> Should fighting games have this auto combo stuff or casuals just need to git gud?

Both.
Even in mvc1 people were given the option for Easy or Normal controls. While Easy allowed beginners access to inefficient combos and easier move commands, they generally didn't allow for more complex optimal stuff.
It'd be fine to add that in mvc:I and no one would be the wiser.

Surprisingly clever for how old an option that was.

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>>375766183
Combos are fun and most are easy, yiu're just bad at games and want to employ mental gymnastics to prove a point. If a player is better than you, he can easily win by poking in neutral and never doing a combo. Combos are just capitalising on opening up your opponent, and only really matter at even skill levels.

And now we have games like SFV where any beginner can combo and this is still something people bitch about.

>>375775943
>very latency sensitive
>only allows 1 on 1 duels
>more demanding than the popular genres

Compare it to shooters or assfaggots.

The more accessible vidya becomes, the more 'accessible' normalfags think I am, so the more inaccessible, rude, misanthropic, and unpleasant I behave to balance things out. It used to be easy being the weird guy no-one wanted to talk to, now it's almost as much effort as pretending to be normal.

>>375775919
Pretty much the poster-boy for why simplicity isn't good for fighting games. This game was a fantastic time for a few days, then mind-numbingly boring therafter.

>>375775919
Wasn't it doing fine and was just gutted for no reason?

>>375776550
Riot canned it after acquiring the dev.

>>375776550
riot bought them out, I'm assuming so they could use the engine to make a league of legends fighting game or some shit, but nothing has been heard since the deed was done

>>375776550
Playerbase started to die off, then Riot came in and bought them out to stop them from competing.

Persona 4 Ultimax has 3 button reversals, autocombos and universal armored overheads but it doesnt stop it from being hard as fuck and absolutely bullshit down the line.

>>375775943
the genre was never really alive because its intensive and mental midgets don't do well in this atmosphere where shit talk is very liberal and the grass roots of the community was born in arcades where shit could actually happen if you shit talked too much, on top of the games being very skill oriented

everyone just wants to play casual stuff where they can either relax or blame their team mates when they lose nowadays, its what happens when everyone becomes a beta male

>>375776859
2*

>>375776745
What the fuck? For real?

>>375763530
I don't see a problem with auto-comboing. 100% of the time the auto combos are never optimized so at any level play above entry they are meaningless. I see it more for people to enjoy story modes/introduction into the game, which is fine. T. guy that got 3rd place at evo many a year ago.

>>375773787

Reminder that all combos are just arbitrary numbers and have no situational usefulness and take absolutely no awareness to use.
</sarcasm>

Combos go beyond just "55 hit combo for massive damage" and also go into "Hey, I knocked this guy down and I need to setup for when he wakes up, what combos will be advantageous". They can go into "would I rather do more damage or push him to a certain place on the stage"... "should I use meter" and so on. People that hate long combos have a right to hate them. they can be a pain in the dick but "remove 95% of them" is fucking ignorant to what a lot of combos ARE. Do something outside of being a stream monster and playing against CPU and actually LEARN SOMETHING from a wiki, talking to people, maybe play a good tutorial (people have mentioned Guilty Gear and Skullgirls). Use a few brain cells and put some effort in

tl:dr on the shitty video max made? i dont want to give him views.

is it about auto combos because thats nothing.

>>375763530
>What you anons think? Should fighting games have this auto combo stuff or casuals just need to git gud?
No, combos just need to be shortened so the game is faster paced and more accessible for casuals.

>>375777005
>>375776745
No, the playerbase had nothing to do with it. It was just an alpha build that Riot then decided to buy up because of the concept, likely intending to use it for a reskinned version of it or such.

>>375776916
>genre was never alive
>Tekken 3 was the 3rd best selling game on the playstation
>MK2 was the best selling game of all time at its release
>MKX sold 5 million copies

>alpha male virtue signalling and assorted inner city niggerdom

>>375766981
LoL and Overwatch aren't party games and neither is Smash

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Why would they if the only people willing to actually go to support the games are already turbo nerds? I can guarantee you that even if a fighting game becomes more accessible the FGC scene won't change a bit.

>>375777559
Because most developers don't care that much about the FGC if they could casualize the game to make NRS-amounts of money

>>375777650
this nrs btfo capcom everytiem

casual here the only fighting games I got are blazeblus,dont touch fighting games desu

>>375772823
thank you for not getting me into a shit game with auto combos

A game that plays for you IS A BAD GAME

FUCK CASUALIZATION IN A GAME
FIGHTING GAMES IS SUPPOSED TO BE YOUR REFLEXES
VERSUS ANOTHER PERSONS REFLEXES

IF IT ISNT THAT IT IS A BAD GAME

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>>375777532

>>375776859

That's because inputs are really the least of your concerns in fighting games. If anything, Persona and Rising Thunder already proves that. The former is focused on being absolutely scummy in terms of setups and move properties than actual inputs, while the latter proves that even if you dumb down inputs, fundamentals are still the groundwork at being relatively skilled at the genre. Bottom line is, fighting games require hard work, but most people who play games these days don't, so even if you make fighting games really casualized, they still wouldn't be satisfied because in the end, your loss is yours.

>>375777559
Because games designed for the FGC, such as Skullgirls, sell less than 100,000 copies and games designed for normal people, like Mortal Kombat X, sell 5,000,000

The FGC is literally a loud minority (made up of loud minorities)

>>375778087
Skullgirls sold close to 1,000,000 copies desu

>>375777453
mortal kombat is literally a normie fighter, and while its taken more seriously than something like smash, its still rightfully looked down upon by the majority of the FGC

also you gonna have to deal with the fact that the inner city niggerdom kind of is the scene at this point, be an ignorant autist elsewhere

https://pastebin.com/pJt3J0Wu

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>>375775293
RE7 is a fucking Outlast, P.T. wannabe and you know it anon. Shit game with absolutely nothing to do with the Resident evil series except having the umbrella symbol pop up now and again and then DUURRR CHRIS REDFIELD
Play good games faggot

>>375773109
>>375773582

What are some fighting games I can play whee high level players can't stun lock me for 90% of my health when I fuck up? Looking at some MvC3 matches and I really can't see how it's fun to have someone turn red and juggle you for 30 seconds, then give you half a second to react to your next character coming in and if you fuck up you get juggled for another 30 seconds.

>>375777434
Playerbase was all but dead by the time Riot swooped in friend. Took 10 minutes to find a match in those last few days.

>>375763530
>maxiSHILLian
not even once.
Also whats wrong with just having easy and normal mode again like always

>>375778337
Yeah the playerbase was small, but that had little to do with it since it was mostly just them showing the concept itself off. It was never intended as a full release or to gain a dedicated playerbase since they had already planned for it to not stay out forever.

>>375778325
street fighter, it focuses less on long dial a combo bullshit and more on short combos that do more damage instead of 67 hit combos that do less damage

you are likely to get your ass kicked even harder though, because in SF if you don't know footsies you basically just fucking lose 90% of the time, fundies are super important

>matchup knowledge
>using the right move at the right time
>using optimal combos
>spacing
>inputs
These I can deal with.
>frame links
This is some bullshit. I don't think I'm ever doing any of these with any consistency.

>>375771326
Just play CC, that's the version everyone plays.
Play Kouma or you're bad

>>375778087
MKX had brand recognition and nostalgia behind it. Skullgirls did really well for a brand new IP, and wouldn't have done nearly as well if it didn't have meticulously crafted FGC-tier gameplay in it.

>>375778806
>I don't think I'm ever doing any of these with any consistency
I used to think this when I started playing SF and would just try doing them in matches from time to time, sticking to simpler combos most of the time.
Little by little you start noticing you can actually do them a lot more easily, just by trying a little and playing normally.

>>375763530
>Accessibility
>SF4 was dumb down
>SFV was dumb down even more than SF4

>MvC3 was dumb down
>UMvC3 was slightly dumb down even more
>MvCI is even more dumb down than both


So.... how many times can you dumb down a game until it's no longer a fighting game and is now Naruto? Like, there has to be a limit right? How can they keep dumb down these games even more as the years go by?

Should just be down then a and b.

No need for nerd faggotry.

Lower skill ceilling =/= lower skill floor

Darkstalkers 2 had beginner mode with autocombos back in 1995. Didn't hurt the game any.

>>375779335
>buying Crapcom

There's your problem. The genre's doing just fine outside of their festering little corner of it. Even NRS is looking better than anything Capcom shits out these days.

>>375781272
>no other fighing game series is dumbing down mechanics to make their games more accessible
I know it's fun to shit on Capcom, but come on now.

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>>375781103
the franchise is dead, nigga

>>375781571
You better delete this post.

bring back MvC2 option for Normal, and Easy during character select. problem solved!

>>375781571
What does that have to do with the point I was making? Or does the word "Darkstalkers" just trigger you like it does so many 09ers?

why are people equating amount of buttons == "casualness"

do people forget Virtua Fighter?

>>375781871
>Or does the word "Darkstalkers" just trigger you like it does so many 09ers?
I'm an 09er and I love Darkstalkers. Never heard of this.

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>>375781871
The only one triggered is you, you butt pirate

>>375764645
>Dumb down game to pander to casuals
>Release game unfinished, game gets panned and casuals don't buy it

This might be the fuck up that kills the genre again for another 10 years.

>>375769541
*Soul Calibur 1 theme starts blaring*

>>375782004
You're one of the good ones, then. But lots of people who got into fighting games with SF4 have this dogmatic belief that SF and Marvel are the only good Capcom fighters.

>>375781272
NRS is a company that hands out polished-looking shit and that's all.

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>>375775534
MAH NIGGA

>>375782174
I don't need your validation, faggot

>>375782119
I'm so mad that they couldn't wait a while longer to release a proper game with actual content.
It sucks because I actually like the game.

>>375782174
>But lots of people who got into fighting games with SF4 have this dogmatic belief that SF and Marvel are the only good Capcom fighters
Again, never heard this from anyone who actually plays fighting games and knows a little about them.

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Not really the thread for it but I'd rather ask here than make a whole thread.

For all the Ryu players in SFV, if his parry were to be buffed, how would you want it to be buffed? Would you want faster start-up, faster recovery, or the ability to cancel it into normals if it's successful? Or something else entirely?

As much as I like AC+R, I'm kind of glad that XRD made Guilty Gear more simple, now I can actually get my friends to join in, and have fun.
The tutorial is A+ too.

>>375763530
as someone who sucks at fighting games I say that casuals just need to git gud and fuck accessibility, it's the same issue with the retarded idea of an easy mode in certain games that weren't really designed with one in mind like dark souls for instance

the argument for accessibility falls flat on it's face if you just take a second to consider other mediums as well, not all fucking books are "accessible" to everyone, same thing for movies, tv shows, anime and all that, different audiences have different tastes and that's part of what enriches those experiences, you can't just dilute something so it panders to everyone, that would just result in a piss poor jack of all trades master of none ordeal

>>375783064
I'd rather just have classic style Ryu back who was based on footsies and fireballs

>>375769009
The game has been out for 15 years

They've tried items
Stamina
Time
Random stages
Even coins for a hot second

Do you really think the Melee meta isn't how it is today for a reason?

>>375783325
Me too, but I'm just asking about parry with this. Realizing Kolin's counter is better than Ryu's parry made me think about ways it could be improved and wondered what other anons thought.

>>375783064
I'm not used to his parry at all since I haven't played the previous games where he had it, so I don't even know what it's supposed to be there for. Am I supposed to use it to bait hits and then combo out of it? Is it to beat fireballs and get in? Am I supposed to use it in my own combos somehow? Like that other guy said I'd probably just want a better fireball.

>>375783389
Honestly, they need to balance all V-Skills and V-Triggers. Some are slightly useful while others are huge comback mechanics/tools.
As for Ryu, they could make it recover faster both when he parries and when he misses to incentivize using it a bit more.

>>375783064
Just make it so he can cancel into anything. Make it busted.

>>375783685
I mainly use it to nullify projectiles, get punishes I wouldn't otherwise be able to get on telegraphed moves, and anti-air.
For example, you can force another Ryu to come in by parrying all his fireballs or parry Nash's moonsaults to get an actual punish instead of it being safe. If you make reads with it you can get some sick damage on people but it unfortunately has hefty recovery and can be crush countered during that recovery so it can be risky.