I hear a lot about casual games as a derogatory term, but traits

>>345795641
The "casual" vs "hardcore" thing is honestly a load of bollocks. The important part of a videogame is the gameplay and entertainment value you get out of it. Anyone touting that something is or isn't hardware enough is just some elitist faggot.

Play what you enjoy, the definition of "hardcore" changes yearly anyway.

>>345795641
That picture pisses me off so much because you know there isn't any more of her. Just one of those one-off pics of a girl with fucking sexy as hell titties.

>>345796139
this is what casuals believe

>>345796139
>Anyone touting that something is or isn't hardware enough is just some elitist faggot.
That's not true at all. HC vs casual may not be super helpful ideas for game design, but a forum post saying a game is casual shit is plausibly quite valid.

>>345796823
Titfucking is great foreplay, but not that stimulating unless you really squeeze them together, and that can hurt the girl

>>345796667
>>345796740
Both of you try to define exactly what "hardcore" is in a videogame. It's not as easy as it sounds and I guarantee you cannot get a definition that fits all games properly even if you have to be extremely specific. It's just a bunch of horseshit and better off dropped as a concept.

>>345797305
There's not a definition for much that would fit all games. That's not a point.

>>345796323
With OP's filename, and your first sentence, I thought this was like a murder victim or something

>>345797305
>>345797471
PS, I would plausibly define it as being in the top X% of games for uniqueness. Most games have simple-ass combat or stale mechanics. There are obviously lots of Mario games that have a very simple design. That's true for every genre, but defining casual and hardcore isn't something that I've been interested in.

I like to think of it as both risk, and time investment necessary to understand the game. Now, I'm not ascribing worth to it, but take something like Candy Crush on one end, and Dota on the other. How much time does it take to 'understand' Candy Crush vs Dota? As well, what is the risk of losing in each of those games? Candy Crush, you lose a life, and can retry, Dota, you're stuck in a match and lose 30 minutes of your life. Candy crush can take half an hour to learn, Dota might take a couple weeks before the mechanical skill can catch up to game knowledge. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but they require differing levels of commitment and thus attract different types of people.

>>345797471
>>345797673
Which is why I said it's meaningless bullshit that may as well be dropped as a term.

>>345795641
holy moly guacamole
I'd smack the shit out of that rack

>>345795641
"Hardcore" games are simply games that require you invest more than a meager amount of energy into, in order to derive pleasure from.

Sometimes that's a knowledge barrier. Sometimes that's skill barrier. Sometimes that's a technical barrier. But basically, the game demands the player invest more into the game, in order to derive pleasure.

>>345795641
A hardcore game should not be fun under any circumstances.

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>>345795641
Being a challenging game for starters

>>345798241
>>345798263
>>345798428
So would something like Super Mario Bros. be hardcore or casual?
How about Hearthstone?
TF2?

Let the debate begin.

>>345798630
While Mario has a low barrier of entry, those games also have varying degrees of difficulty.
Mario is both casual and Hardcore, depending on how far you wish to take the experience.

I can't speak for the other games.

for one thing nothing can happen automatically, like health or shield regeneration. the player has to seek out anything and everything that will give him an advantage.

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>>345797965
You're basically saying a game/genre can't have an objective qualifier list, and that's drivel. You couldn't evidence that, and there are plenty of ideas to provide for the opposite. 99% of biology being the same, motivation being well defined by science, a game that is or isn't what most of the industry is already experiencing..

>>345798630
>SMB
The original gets a pass because it was -- ready? Unique. Mario now is casual.

Hearthstone is casual.

TF2 is a shitty game, but I wouldn't call it either, honestly.

It's pretty simple. It gets to the point where you may not call a game a casual game, but the design is as casual as it can get. GTAO is an example.

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Hardcore pretty much refers to the amount of effort and thought you need to put in, to just play the game. Hardcore games are more like work than entertainment, and pretty much any game can become hardcore with a big enough difficulty spike.

>playing games to feel like work

Some people just get more enjoyment out of somethings, when they feel they have earned them. Also after you play any game(type of game) for a while, with just one difficulty setting it just naturally gets boring. So of cores their would be a demand for more difficulty with a good number of players, who have been playing games for a while.

Post more huge titties please. I'm jacking of. Thank you.

>>345798841
>>345799075
2 posts and we already have a disagreement. You're sure the "hardcore"/"casual" labels are even useful anymore?

>>345799341
If you give a monkey a screwdriver, is it useful?
Don't blame the tools for the fault of the user. I was right, the other anon was wrong. You should be able to figure out who I am.

>>345799504
I legitimately have no clue which anon is speaking, either definition has validity given how vague the terms actually are.

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>>345795641

>>345798428
That's a nice bike.

>>345795641
depth and complexity of mechanics

>>345799341
How's that? We're both saying Mario is casual. If we're talking about 2D sidescrolling, there are much more advanced experiences.

>>345800608
What the fuck am I looking at here?

>>345800938
One says Mario was hardcore but is only now casual, the other says it depends on where the player is in the game.

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>>345796323
If you're into necks, I got you homie. Got a whole neck folder just waiting to be posted.

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>>345798630
>Super Mario Bros. be hardcore or casual?

People's perceptions (including the creators) of a game don't make a game hardcore or casual it's how intensely the mechanics are used, and how mastery of them helps you win. It's casual until someone slides the difficulty bar. Mario can be casual if you only need to do a few jumps to get to the other side of the map, but it can be ass blasting if you have to do 30-50 with crazy timing/accuracy. Same thing with a game like Smash. It becomes more hardcore or casual based on how difficult the mechanics are to use and master, to gain an advantage over another player, and win. In more casual pvp games in general both experienced players, and new players usually do about the same,because putting more time into the game won't net a better outcome, do to either straight busted mechanics, that any noob can use to win, or random elements like items. using the busted strat becomes dominant for all players, and anyone is just as likely to win. In more hardcore pvp time spent learning all the data/matchups, and reaction time, become far more valuable, and dev's try to limit dominant strats with balance .

>>345801285
You see... The man you are responding to believes that Mario is no longer casual. He fails to recognize the more demanding portions of the games. Which makes his opinion wrong.

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>>345801298
Nigga I got the neck to end all necks.

>>345801298
>man trapped in a cabinet enjoys the view.jpeg

>>345801418
By that logic, almost any game could become hardcore since it's down to.the player applying their own rules or restrictions to the experience in order to increase skill required.

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>>345801298

>>345801532
Copy that

>>345801000
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZP4Ugev82I

>>345801512
Okay, then what about those other games I listed? (which are also commonly debated over their casual/hardcore status)

>>345801285
>>345801512
What exactly makes Mario HC? It's the same experience as other Mario sidescrollers. This isn't about just challenge level. If everybody's played the game, why should it be included in an advanced gaming category?

>>345801532
>greetings chosen undead.jpg

There's literally nothing wrong with casual games or casual gamers. The problem is casualization.

>>345802521
This.

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casualbabbs are nu-gamer tardlords that have forgotten(or never knew) the concept of beating a game

because of this, they can't fathom the idea of overcoming challenges, solving puzzles, learning and enduring trials and tribulations in order to become good at the game they're playing. they take no pride in what they do, ever, because it's too hard for them. they're lazy, unmotivated, unambitious and worst of all, entitled. they think they're oh so important because they make up a majority of the playerbase and are who "pays the bills" for the Devs. and while this is true to an extent, any game without a strong competitive atmosphere will never become popular, and it's certainly not the casuals that make a competitive game interesting, it's the hardcore players; the players that put in the effort to learn, practice, and strive to be the best.

there's also a proven direct correlation between success and intelligence. casuals are retarded

>>345802445
HROOOAAAGGHHH
Great soapstone message chosen undead!

>>345796139
Totally agree

>>345796139
This guy gets it.

>neck thread

Epic new meme fetish

>>345799341
Yeah people disagree about words all the time, lets stop using them.

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>>345801596
>it's down to.the player applying their own rules or restrictions to the experience in order to increase skill required.

It's important in that statement to make sure there is a distinction between what creates the win condition, the game or the player. In hard core games it is more about how the player plays( especially when it comes to pvp). But in more casual games skill is caped by random/busted shit, which means making your own rules/restrictions is pointless to help you win. This apples more for pvp. And for pve the players rules/logic come more into play the harder the game is, but the skill floor and ceiling have a harder cap because you are playing only against a set environment. So at some point the player will just have mastered the game/ beat all the levels, and then more skill just becomes irreverent. At that point you just have to make another game that requires more skill.

>>345804249
The problem here is the definition has changed to the extent that the word alone is as good as meaningless.

>>345804280
So if we had a really easy platformer game (can't think of a good example), is it hardcore simply if speedrunning it takes some skill even if the regular gameplay is piss-easy?

>>345795641
Casual has changed as the industry changes


10 years ago it was the massive WW2 FPS market
5 years ago it was candy crush
Now it's "progressive" walking simulators
add sports games in there too

Generally whatever is most appealing to the mass market at the time is the casual market, because publishers are trying to get those people to be less casual and buy more games so they can make more money.

The definition is almost self evident, hardcore means a game that requires dedication beyond what the average person is willing or capable to put in, the definition isn't exactly elitist by itself, but you can be elitist about it.

>>345797002
Some girls like being hurt during sex.

to me "hardcore" means competing on a HC ladder in a game like Diablo

>>345800718
For You.

>>345795641
why are boobs so fantastic

>>345805123
Then what is the average?

>>345804725
>Generally whatever is most appealing to the mass market at the time is the casual market
well if thats the case then walking simulators dont qualify at all. Rather by this definition mobile games trump everything, but more traditionally LoL/Dota, CoD, and as you mentioned sports games are the easy winners

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>>345805406
Hopes and dreams

>>345805406
tits are overrated.

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>>345801532
there are better vidya related necks

>>345805620
lol go worship your mom's feet pathetic /tv/ fag

>>345795641
Casual and hardcore aren't the only types of games in existence. Casual games are typically just on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of depth, designed for the lowest common denominator for the purpose of being mass-consumption, easily digestible entertainment that you use to waste time, rather than a game to be enjoyed for competition's sake, for its story, for its depth, for its progression, for the experience...

As much as casuals may like call of duty though, that doesn't make it a casual game. At least, not always. It's more of an average-range game in general.

Candy crush is a casual game. Bejeweled was a casual game. Puzzle Quest was not a casual game, as it took Bejeweled and built on it and made a more in-depth experience out of it, and could be considered average-range.

Hardcore games are games with historically a high skill ceiling, and considerable depth. See: Souls, Monster Hunter in general (although the recent one is a teensy bit lacking), Starcraft, Street Fighter, Smash Melee (although other entries in the series... debatably less so), stuff like that. These games all have intrinsic mechanics to them that you typically can't see at first glance, or otherwise a lot of variable to consider. In this context, hardcore means high skill.

However, there are a lot of games that fall into neither category of casual or hardcore, those average-range games.

Casual games are derogatory because, well, most of the time, the people who play them aren't really into games. They're just using it as a way to waste their time, an excuse to spend their money, y'know? These are the type of people that "grow out" of video games, but as it happens, they're the type of ""gamer"" that gets the most exposure on average, because they're also the type of people that are much more willing to go out and do other shit with their time than sitting in and hunkering down for a good game. JRPGs are boring and slow, Monhan / Souls are too hard, RTS too complex...

>>345798241
Games aren't intrinsically hardcore at all. The term hardcore gamer is an oxymoron and every time someone says it, you really have to laugh.

Picture competitive fighting games, RTS, etc. There are tons of instances where people rose to the upper echelon of the competitive scene in months. Now picture the same thing for something like motorcycle racing or instrumentation where professional competency time is clocked at around 10k hours.

The same goes for all but the most cripplingly contrived single-player experiences. I went from having no DMC experience, to beating 1, 3, 4 on DMD and Bayo 2 on Climax in about 8 weeks of moderate play.

>casual games cannot be enjoyed

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>>345798428
>tfw you'll never be that bike

>>345795641
skill floor and skill ceiling. the higher the skill ceiling, the more hardcore.

>>345805934
It could be argued that simply beating games like DMC/Bayonetta isn't the full experience, though. Although it's entirely optional, part of what is considered the total experience is being flashy as fuck and getting a lot of points. People are drawn to cuhrayzee games like that because they want to beat every enemy in the most drawn-out, flashy way possible, just because they can. And the games facilitate that, whereas others do not.

There's a huge difference between rising to the competitive scene of a physical activity and electronic one. One, physical activities are SHITLOADS more expensive in the long term. Two, electronic activities are a lot more popular, pulling from a wider pool of people. Three, electronic activities get a lot more coverage thanks to recording programs and streams and youtube.

The two experiences aren't really comparable due to having so many different factors working for each. Plus, being a "hardcore gamer" does not necessarily mean "a gamer that only plays hardcore games", but rather a gamer that puts a lot more of himself into games in general, and that can include hardcore games.

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>>345801532
>>345801298
post more neck or she gets it

I have played dwarf fortress for 9 years. I have mastered the shit UI and convoluted mechanics. At this point nothing I play ever feels challenging.

>>345806668
Try SS13

>>345800718
Not really.

>>345806774
I have. It pales in comparison to the clusterfuck that is the tavern update. Still fun though

>>345805586
Is that Mia Zarring?

>>345806925
Well.I guess that's it, you'll never have fun.with traditional vidya again.

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>>345804723

So if we had a really easy platformer game (can't think of a good example), is it hardcore simply if speedrunning it takes some skill even if the regular gameplay is piss-easy?

Again it would have to do with how you use the speed mechanic, and how it plays on the other mechanics. If the speed of the character is capped/ single rate(not considered a factor by devs) speedrunning, and environment hazerds are non existent, it won't have much if any impact on the difficulty, especially if the game is piss-easy and has no "scaling difficulty", essentially there would be no difference between speed running and how the game is normally played, you can't really speed run. Although with scaling difficulty, speed running can boost a game to be hard core (in some cases, assuming the player has a way to significantly speed up), but mostly because it's another ball to juggle, which could tip the player into putting in more of their own effort to over come the environment . Also like with games like sonic speedrunning where dev's play with the base environment to make the game more hard core for people who want to speed run. Go read a book on game theory, if you want more distinct answers about game mechanics, how they effect other mechanics, game creation vs game playing / P V E / P V P.

>>345805781
only person itt with a clue about what hes talking about

>>345802378
>If everybody's played the game
100% wrong. The amount of players the series has seen is absolutely meaningless to the hardcore/casual status of a game.

Mario has both casual parts and hardcore part. Depending on how far you want to go. That's why I say Mario is both.

>>345801807
>Okay, then what about those other games I listed?
I can't speak for those game, because I only stuck my toe in TF2, and never touched Hearthstone.

>A deals a deal, anon! You have to cum on my chest!

>>345805934
>There are tons of instances where people rose to the upper echelon of the competitive scene in months.
There is? Are you sure you aren't, you know, making that up?

>>345805559
Casual to publishers is where the $$$ is
Casual to regular and longtime gamers is whatever is coming out and has no game. So right now walking simulators and mobile puzzle games.

>>345795641
I would define someone as a hardcore if they actually devote a decent amount of their free time to playing games vs just playing games on a bus ride.

>>345795641
one thing that makes a game a casual game is, what i like to call, retard-helpers.
This includes stuff like auro-aim, input buffering, that thing portal 2 does when it sucks you into a portal automaticly.
There are probably more things that have the same effect but theese are examples.
The problem with theese functions are that they help the player complete a certain task.

What is more casual then a game that helps you?

However, removing theese does not make a game hardcore but having theese makes a game casual.

>>345812026
>input buffering
I don't see very much wrong with input buffering, depending on the game. On some games it should really be eliminated, but on others it would fit right at home, as long as the window wasn't too wide.

>>345801792
kek

>>345796139
You were completely right, don't worry about that garbage chain you ended up in with two other people saying otherwise.

They just shitpost constantly and act elitist on 4chan like you said. Over all, it does not matter one bit. If you get entertainment out of it, you won.

>>345814063
I don't know, that 1 guy had a few good points about platformers, though that was a tangent in what counts as hardware as opposed to if it even matters.

>>345814732
>hardware
Why does my phone keep autocorrecting this, hardcore is a real word.

>>345804723
>really easy platformer game
>speedrunning takes some skill
Yoshi's Island my nigga. The mobility makes the game easy if you go slow but hella fun if you don't.