Hedgehog Expedition the Third

BIG'S BIG FISHING ADVENTURE 3 HYPE!
GET ON THE TRAIN BOYS!

Sonic '06 was Sonic Adventure 3.

I don't even know why people are so attached to adventure. Like a few of the Sonic/Shadow stages are good but the rest is shitty.

>What are your thoughts on this idea?
Unless they fix the issues that have been plaguing the series (shit camera etc.), I ain't interested

>What are your expectations for the 25th anniversary?
A half-assed game that either has good ideas but executes them poorly or a technical mess just like every Sonic game in the past decade or so

>>322930870
This. Adventure was objectively shit.

Sure, if you ditch the shit writing of the adventure games, and fix the buggy gameplay.
So basically make a good sonic game and call it adventure 3.

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>>322930870
>>322931330
C H A O
H
A
O

>>322931330
Haha wtf?? Nooo it's not xD

>>322929726
how are they still making sonic games when the last 20 of them were pure trash nobody liked?

at what point does the nostalgia run out

I expect nothing, and they will still let me down. Let this franchise die already.

>>322929726
I love the person that created the official Sonic the Hedgehog twitter account. How was it ever approved by the head of the marketing department?

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>>322931531
(You)

>>322931673
How did they make three more Hunger Games movies when the first one gave me a headache? I don't mean figuratively, I mean I stopped midway through and grabbed some ibuprofen.

The world is full of mysteries.

>>322931935
WTF, why does this post say (you)? I didn't write that.

I'd play an Animal Crossing-like game in the universe of Sonic Boom

>>322931373
>Implying you can fix the perfection that is SA's writing.

>>322931673
It never does, the nostalgiafags will perform the miraculous feat of breeding with another person and they will then buy Sanic games for their mentally challenged hellspawn

Who actually cares at this point? At best it'll be something OK like Colors or Generations, why bother getting excited.

>>322932071
(You)
I dont know.

>>322932294
YOU'RE NOT EVEN GOOD ENOUGH TO BE MI'LL MAKE YOU EAT THOSE WORDS

>>322930870
This meme needs to die. That was just how they made Sonic games back then. Unleashed was the first time they broke the "just run and homing attack" formula. Even though the games were similar, it isn't Adventure 3. SEGA has tried to make Adventure 3 twice now, the first for the Dreamcast before it went under, and the second was turned into Sonic Unleashed. Sonic 06 was intentionally called just Sonic the Hedgehog because it was an anniversary title.

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sonic was never good
pls stop liking it

>>322932640
didn't naka say heroes was sa3 or something

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>People actually want another shitty Sonic game where most of the content consists of not playing as Sonic

>>322932640
>Unleashed was the first time they broke the "just run and homing attack" formula
By making it "Boost and Homing Attack"
It's the same shit

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>>322932665
Go play Sonic Chronicles. You'll like that one.

>>322932892
Yeah but boost is just hold a button to win. I don't see how people can think of this otherwise.

4u

>>322933053
Have you played Unleashed or Gens past the second level?

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>>322930870

Sonic 06 is a bad game.
It isn't because it plays like SA3. It's a genuine bad game.

SA1 mechanics, play style is perfect for a 3d Sonic game. Sadly, having a good blueprint isn't enough if you are going to fuck with the development of the game.

Sonic 06 isn't bad because it plays like a Sonic Adventure game. Sonic 06 is bad because it's filled with bugs, game breaking glitches and overall uninspiring level design.

I said this in a previous thread. It's like grabbing Mario Galaxy and making a bad game with its controls scheme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHjuE6CsmzA

Are you going to blame Galaxy playstyle too?

>>322931330
Sup gamegrumper

>Sonic 1
>play platforming levels as Sonic

>Sonic 2
>play platforming levels as Sonic or Tails

>Sonic 3 and Knuckles
>play platforming levels as Sonic, Knuckles or Tails

>Sonic Adventure
>play platforming levels as Sonic and Tails
>play Hot or Cold as Knuckles
>play shitty run-away level as Amy
>play rooty-tooty-point-and-shooty as Gamma
>Sega's Big Bass Fishing with Big

How did they suddenly get it so wrong?

>>322933207
Even the blueprints the Adventure style gives is flawed. It's not just as simple as adding another dimension. It opens tons of variables they have to plan for and if they mess up even a little bit it dominos into a mess. The proof is in the pudding. Every single attempt at that style has ended poorly for one reason or another. The chance of fucking it up due to its overwhelming complexity is too high for it to be an endeavor worth chasing after anymore. It is simply incredibly unfeasible to create what Sonic had in 2D in 3D.
Reposting this same shit every thread like you're trying to delude yourself doesn't make you any more right.
06 was bad for many many reasons and it being an Adventure game was one of them.
>>322934029
They gave Iizuka actual power instead of leaving him as a code monkey.

>Even if the "leak" is fake

There's no "even," it just is. I don't get why morons believe anything they read.

>>322934118
>It is simply incredibly unfeasible to create what Sonic had in 2D in 3D.
Funny, because this little indie game did it just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwjpZiPe5BI

Look at that - pinball physics in 3D, which is all a Sonic game needs.

You want to know what THE closest 3D Sonic game to the classics is, in aesthetic, physics, and level design?

Sonic R.

Then they threw it all away for gimmicks.

>>322934118

Fuck you you dumb jew.
Sonic Adventure plays perfectly. Yes, it needs some improvement, but Sonic controls properly in SA1 unlike Sonic Unleashed, Generations and even Colors.

Sonic feels too slippery in the "press boost to win" series. Not at all suitable for a 3d platform that requires precision platforming.

Not to mention that game relies too much on the boost mechanic hence why the levels feel like corridors.

SA1 controls are flawed? Yes, that is why you always try to improve any games flaws with sequels.
SA1 was fine as a first attempt. SA1 needed more than one sequel for Sonic Team to unleashed SA full potential.

SA1 mechanics allowed for precision platforming and fast section with crippling controls and level layout.

All it needed was more polish and some gimmicks changes.
That is why sequels exist.

Instead of doing that, sega made SA2, the last true sequel and shit all over what they started with the terrible Heroes and the next games that came after.

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Give me a legit reason to keep this series alive instead of throwing it in the trash, and no Colors and Generations aren't an argument because Sega immediately abandoned their design to produce garbage like Lost World and Boom

Re-release Sonic Adventures 1 and 2 for the PS4 with trophies.

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>>322935003

>SA1 mechanics allowed for precision platforming and fast section with crippling controls and level layout.

I meant to say "without crippling controls and level layout"

>>322934626
>Funny, because this little indie game did it just fine.
Funny, because that little indie game didn't do it at all.
Where are the obstacles?
Where are the slopes that aren't just straight ramps?
Where are the enemies?
Where are all the quarter and half pipes? And you can just jump while going up to gain ridiculous speed for no reason.
Where is the extensive use of momentum to platform?
And as close as it got to having actual ball physics, it lacks aesthetics, the level design isn't focused on platforming, and even then the physics are not as spot on as they could and should be.
Like I said, creating what Sonic had in 2D in 3D is simply unfeasible.
>Sonic R
ha hahaha ha

>>322935567
I'm talking about the physics, you moron.

> and even then the physics are not as spot on as they could and should be.
Of course not. But they're damn close, and way closer than any ''Sonic'' game in 3D has ever been.

>haha
You have anything real to say or are you just going to meme me?

>>322935003
There was one and only one 'decent' SA1 level, and that was Windy Valley Beta.

>>322935003
Sonic Adventure controls sucked Super Monkey Balls. Stop being naive.

Try replaying it.

>>322929726
Sonic Adventure 3 would be nothing short of disastrous, I do not trust Team Sonic to produce a good game if they tried such a thing.

>>322935880

>only good SA1 level was windy valley... beta

Oh fuck off you pretentious fag.
Even if you believe in the bullshit you are spewing, you are only giving me reason.
SA1 works in 3d, you can make a good 3d Sonic game using SA1 as a blueprint.

Apparently for you Windy Valley was a good demo. A demo made in SA1

>>322936623
I didn't say good. I said 'decent'. In quotes, for a reason. It's still heavily flawed. A superior blueprint can be found in the scraps of the REAL Sonic Adventure, the one that lies in Sonic R and Sonic Jam.

Let me play 3D Knuckles.

In a proper Sonic-like level.


Fuck you Sonic Team!

>>322936794
>A superior blueprint can be found in the scraps of the REAL Sonic Adventure, the one that lies in Sonic R and Sonic Jam
This is bait right? Sonic R has Sonic control like a literal car and has nothing resembling physics. Sonic Jam has Sonic running around on exclusively flat surfaces at a low speed from funny angles with an ancient camera control system.

Aside from the cool looking low-poly Sonic, and the cheesy but lovable europop of Sonic R, these games offer absolutely nothing. Certainly, from a gameplay perspective, there isn't a single thing to be taken from these games

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>>322936405

I did, I still do. I still enjoy playing it and I see a lot of potential in expanding the gameplay style from SA1

Deal with it

>>322935003
I guess the can of worms that this retard opened up is was there ever anything good about 3D Sonic? He's always controlled like a spastic moron with frictionless feet, homing attack is either a boring part of combat or "tap X repeatedly to progress" when it's used for platforming. Spring sections, loops and shit are boring and actually dissuade you from putting in any input that isn't "go forward", because if you deviate 2 degrees with the joystick on a loop you glitch into the ground immediately. I'm not going to go into the story, because obviously it's not important to SEGA or it wouldn't be such a pile of dumb shit. But really, the 3D Sonic games always controlled awful, were riddled with glitches, and whenever you played as a non-Sonic character you were treated to a slightly different flavor of terrible, lazy platforming, like in SA2 how the walker is literally "hold the laser, spaz out and kill everything in the room."

>>322936794

Sonic Jam plays like a simplistic, more slow paced version of SA.

>>322937132
Level design, for one. Which makes sense for Sonic R, seeing as how, you know... It had the original level designer doing its 'tracks'.

>>322937262
No fucking shit, it was - as I JUST pointed out - the scraps of the real Sonic Adventure, the one intended for the Saturn.

>>322935003
>ad hominem from the start
ebin
Sonic Adventure plays far from perfectly. The physics are fucked, controlling Sonic at high speeds is practically impossible for reasons other than blinding speed, and the high speed mixed with 3D environments and hitboxes makes for one glitchy cake.
>b-b-but boost
Stay focused. I know you need to shit on something else to make out like what you're holding up isn't shit but I don't care. The shit you're holding is shit and that's what we're talking about.
>that is why you always try to improve any games flaws with sequels
And SA2 made a lot more shit worse than it did improve. Shadow was an even worse "improvement" and 06 was a complete disaster. It had plenty of chances and all of them ended with a worse game each time. It's a flawed style from conception.
>SA1 mechanics allowed for precision platforming and fast section with crippling controls and level layout.
I know what you meant to say, but in fact the controls, physics, and camera made it aggravating to platform at slow speeds. Like hell it was anything short of infuriating at high speeds. And homing attacking enemies repeatedly and going through corridors at high speeds is not platforming.
Try understanding basic game design please. Creating a game that controls well with the same level of physics as Genesis Sonic is hard enough but creating a whole game that doesn't bug out with levels that aren't shit is another difficult task on top of that. All because it's in 3D. The Adventure style is inherently flawed. It needs a similar approach but with different sensibilities when it comes to throttling player movement and creating levels to move about in so that it can exist without being inherent shit.
>>322936623
>SA1 works in 3d, you can make a good 3d Sonic game using SA1 as a blueprint.
It doesn't and you have almost no proof of such as all games in this style have been a flavor of bad. If anyone should be fucking off, it's you, obnoxious nostalgiafag.

>>322930870
Sonic heroes was adventure 3 dumbass.

>>322934118
>It is simply incredibly unfeasible to create what Sonic had in 2D in 3D.
this is why the boost games work, at least to me. they try their own way of applying speed as a concept.

>>322930870
>>322931330

sure they weren't great games, but that doesn't mean they weren't fun.

As someone who grew up on the genesis/game gear games it was neat to see the characters that I knew so well interact with each other (other than the cartoons). Yes, the dialogue and story were cringey, but you went along for the ride anyway because why the fuck not?

I also don't know why the gameplay gets shit on so much. The spin dash let you go fast when you wanted, but sonic wasn't slippery so the platforming wasn't a chore and I never really minded the homing attack. It seemed like a logical extension into a 3D environment

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>>322937356

>"sonic jam was aiming for the right direction and it feels great"
>sonic adventure is just an expanded version of sonic jam
>"oh but sonic adventure is bad tho"

>"windy valley beta is great tho and it plays amazing"
>windy valley SA1 is just an expanded version of windy valley from the beta
>"oh but sonic adventure is bad tho"

yes, great rationalization there mate

>>322931330
Yeah it was shit but it was a good shit.

>>322937620
It's exactly why the Boost games work. They throttle the player to having control over 2 dimensions while putting the third to a single stick direction/button press in order for them to be able to control it and levels created around doing such a thing. I do wish they would try something different with that style, though. It was getting a bit stale in Generations but it has potential for other uses I would like to see them go after. Too bad Iizuka exists.

>>322937356
>Level design, for one
Granted, Sonic R does succeed in having multiple routes intertwine in and out of one another. That alone doesn't make for fun gameplay though, as proven by Sonic R itself being dog shit. To call Sonic R a good template for Sonic in 3D is just plain wrong.

As for Sonic Jam: I really don't get what point you were making there. It's slow, the level layout of Sonic World isn't particularly coherent, the camera controls wouldn't work in gameplay going any faster than a snails pace... and so on

It's easier to pine for a game that doesn't exist, I guess. Same reason why certain people out there hype themselves over Sonic X-Treme even though it looked like shit - it's more comforting to believe that Sonic almost had a 10/10 3D platformer debut on the Saturn, than it is to believe that Sonic has simply always been crappy in 3D

>>322930870
People won't consider it part of the Adventure series if it doesn't have a Chao Garden. That's pretty much all it is.

>>322937413

>physics are fucked

Not they are not. Sonic controls aren't slippery unlike the Unleashed series

>controlling sonic at high speeds is practically impossible

So? 2D sonic games also had that problem. Going fast in those games was troublesome too and you often died from going too fast.


One thing that I keep hearing from SA1 haters is how the game is glitchy and that is why its a bad game.
Yes, the game is filled with bugs, but that is the only valid complain.

If Sega made a Sonic game that feels and plays like the SA series but polished and with memorable levels, than you would get a great Sonic game.

The hardest thing to do, nailing how sonic feels like in a 3d environment, is a goal already accomplished:

Just make a good, polished Sonic game with the SA play style

>>322938107
honestly, less automatic sequences and more shortcuts would've been enough for at least 1 more game using the boost formula. that and add characters with different abilities again (because it's past time anyways)

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Fuck Adventure 3, I'd prefer Unleashed 2: non-shitty werehog and more grotesque final boss edition.

>>322938578
So gens?

>>322937861
I'm not sure how you got
>windy valley beta is great tho
from
>it was 'decent'

You new-age Sonicfags aren't too bright, are you?

>>322938168
Sonic R came a lot closer than anything else. Translating Sonic in 3D is a hard task, but it's not impossible by any means, as evident by multiple titles 'coming close' to it.

It's a little hard to say "Sonic sucks in 3D" when not a single title bothers trying to shoot for that.

WHAT THE FUCK IS A SONIC?

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>>322938893
I said more grotesque final boss.

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>>322938932

>new age
>seem to forget SA1 came out 16 years ago

Yeah sir edge lord.
Mature gaems for mature gaemers liek myself amirite? xd

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>>322939291
>SA1 came out 16
Jesus.

>>322939291
I don't see how that invalidates my statement at all, youngblood.

>Mature gaems for mature gaemers liek myself amirite? xd
Hilarious, considering Sonic games were at their edgiest point with the SA2-Shadow-06 'trilogy'.

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>>322939467

>bashing sonic fans
>posting on a sonic thread

Sure, ok.

>>322939467
Sonic 3 & Knuckles was released in 1994
Sonic Adventure was released in 1998
And to give perspective Heroes is now 13 years old

>>322939741

>1998
Oh fuck, I forgot about the japanese release of SA1.

>>322939291
>>322939467
>>322939636

it came out in 98 which means it's 18 years old

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Have none of you heard about Sonic World(PC)? It plays like a mix of adventure and heroes. Admittedly they threw in some treasure hunt/Mach speed stages which is dumb. Also, chao garden.

>>322938367
Also because it isn't called Sonic Adventure 3, dipshit.

>>322939942
Fan stuff? Fell out of that years back.

>>322938393
>Not they are not. Sonic controls aren't slippery unlike the Unleashed series
>B-B-BUT BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOST
Yeah they are and they're incredibly slippery. Controlling him at a low speed feels like controlling a boulder but he spazzes uncontrollably when he's running. Please focus.

You should read the rest of that line you quoted. Sonic wasn't hard to control at high speeds in the Genesis games. The challenge in maintaining your speed was avoiding enemies and pitfalls, not fighting against your own movement or the game's physics.
>SA1 being glitchy is the only valid complaint
No, there are many more valid complaints, many of which I have stated, but you'll shove your fingers further in your ears and pretend like they aren't so you don't have deal with logic by arguing it. The game has shit physics, the controls are borked, and the camera is complete ass (which I can concede as a problem with the Dreamcast itself due to the controller). All of that is on top of how glitchy the game is. SA2 throttled players with rails and other modes of transportation to cover up the glitchiness and give a false sense of improvement of controls or physics, which were minor at best.
>than you would get a great Sonic game
No, they would have to have a proper physics engine, controls that aren't slippery, gittery, and all over the place like SA1's, and a camera that could handle moving around the 3D environments in high speed without glitching into it or spazzing out. A more polished SA game would not be inherently good, in fact it would be the opposite. It would take a complete reworking of what the Adventure games were going for for it have even the slightest chance at being great.
>is a goal already accomplished
Please show me where because there is not one Sonic game where this has been nailed.
>>322938560
I'm surprised they haven't tried to do more with it. They created it with Unleashed and streamlined it with Colors and Gens. The obvious next step is to evolve it.

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>>322939890

>SA1 is older than the majority of /v/ shitposters

Now it's a good time to die

>>322940082
Yeah it's fan stuff, but as far as Sonic goes, fan games can be better than official ones.

>>322938932
>Sonic R came a lot closer than anything else
I really feel like you're making a mountain out of a molehill with that one. Sonic R had the branching routes intertwining on each other, but it had nothing else. Sonic in 3D presents multiple problems. To list a few off the top of my head
>The sensation of speed is much harder to 'fake'. Sonic R feels slow as fuck. Unlike the old games, they have to actually make the games fast instead of faking speed. This puts a significant strain on resources, as levels need to be like 20x bigger
>Accurate jumping in 3D. The homing attack was introduced as a crutch for this, but it doesn't really solve the problem. This completely changes the way enemies and platforming sections are interacted with (Sonic R lacks both enemies and platforming sections on account of being a racing game, so it's no contest on that one)
>Physics, especially on slopes, become much harder with a third dimension involved
>Certain elements of Sonic, such as loop-de-loops, simply don't translate to 'true 3D' at all without restricting you in some way in order to force you into the loop, which even in Sonic R was a scripted loop instead of something actually physics based
>Much greater care needs to be taken in Sonic's controls, because Sonic needs to control relative to his speed. Sonic Adventure controls great at lower speeds but kind of shitty at high speeds, whereas boost trilogy controls like a tank at low speeds but much more smoothly at top speed. A middle ground or some kind of scaling system needs to be achieved
This is just a few of the problems that come up from the translation of Sonic into 3D. Now, make no mistake - I don't think Sonic is impossible in 3D. I firmly believe there are ways to not only solve these problems, but adapt them in such a way that they make 3D Sonic's mechanics BETTER than 2D Sonic. Sonic R, however, makes no attempt at resolving any of the actual issues presented by 3D Sonic. It's a quaint little racing game

>>322938932

>Sonic R came closer
>a game where turning sonic feels like turning a fucking tank
>shits all over SA

You need help.

>>322939741
>Sonic the Hedgehog was released on the Genesis in 1991 when I was 10
>I'm going to turn 35 this year
Fuck me.
>>322940209
Keyword is "can". Very few fan Sonic projects even come close to what they are based off of. I don't think I've seen a single Genesis Sonic styled fangame has even come close to being better than Sonic 2 or 3&K. That being said, BTS and ATS are pretty good.

Can people shut the hell up about how adventure games are based on the presence of chao gardens?

>>322929726
I expect there to be a Coldsteel game exclusive to the PS4

>>322940542
You need work on your hyperbole, anon.

>>322940334
All I said was that the level design is better than average, which is apparently a big problem that plagues Sonic. See: Most Sonic games suffering from awful level design.

>>322940547
Yeah this World game, BTS, and ATS were the only ones I was really talking about.

>>322939942
i don't mind alternate gameplay, it just needs to be done right