Its fun to play with friends for a few hours but gets boring super fast. It's just a fixed brawl, and I dont like the concept of defensive game play always wining.
The Smash 4 tournaments I've been to in real life haven't been as exciting as the Melee, PM, or even Brawl tournaments I've been to. Right now I just want to wait for Mewtwo's release to see how the metagame has developed.
It'll die out as soon as the next Smash comes out just like Brawl because it's just lacking too much to be competitive and has the problem of being super defensive and boring just like Brawl.
Just dont get grabbed, ice climbers have one of the worst grabs in the game and nana has worse AI than a lvl 1 bot you can kill her super easy with most characters
>tfw anti-tourney and tourneyfags are an idea that has ever only existed in /v/ shitposting threads
the only difference is that anti-tourneyfags are real and actually believe the people they whine about are anything other than completely nonexistent or an extreme minority so far removed from the actual competitive scene it doesnt matter
Look at the webm. It's when the Ice Climbers pretty much infinitely grab chaingrab you, and you can't escape it until they throw you, and they'll typically combo it into a smash attack from the other ice climber.
It's really hard to do though, so barely anybody does it.
I've seen tourneyfags being mentioned in Halo threads when people discuss battle rifle starts vs normal weapon n starts.
"tourneyfag" really isn't a word though, but anti-competitive people who spout it do exist for some retarded reason.
No one does it because it's fucking banned at 99% of tournies.
Have you ever been to a tournament? It's like 50% really hyped up black people and autists who stand around talking to no one.
Not gonna disagree with you there and I understand the hate it gets but if it was as OP as every one thinks they wouldent be 8th
stop dash attacking shields, you sound like this sheik I wobbled 4 stock a few weeks ago
Brawl tournaments existed, sorta still exist in some communities.
It had much more problems at a fundamental level than Smash 4.
This will be my only post in this thread, because it will probably have lots of shitposting and I don't see the point in staying around for pointless shit.
People will try it out for a few more months. Some will keep at it, but others won't. It'll be more respected than Brawl was, but will still be seen as insufficient and anti-competitive to many.
The game isn't bad, not nearly as bad as Brawl.
It's really fun and really excels as a casual game. As a competitive game, however, it is lacking. Love it or hate it, Melee has infinitely deeper mechanics and is more suited for competitive play. I think 4 is more fun with friends but it has absolutely no chance for a serious competitive scene.
>not Galileo vs Dogura Blazblue finals
I admit that Pikachu 4stock was fucking nuts, but that comeback was so fucking real in Blazblue. Nigga shed tears he fought so hard to win. Blazblue may be GG-lite and may be generally pretty dull, but it had the best fights during Evo 2014.
>same high skill ceiling as other fighters
>high skill floor unlike other fighters held down by input barrier and artificial difficulty
Is there a better competitive fighting game than smash?
The problem is ALL of the Smash games are good casually. Sm4sh doesn't even do casual play the best either.
Smash 4 is probably #3 on the list of best casual smash games, with melee being 1 and 64 being 2.
>That feel when silent wolf is from your region and you wanted him to put washington and oregon back on the map
>dont ever get grabbed, not once, ever, any game
gee how surprising that you wouldnt think its OP broken garbage
you do realize that its banned for a reason at pretty much all tournaments that matter, right?
I have no problem with Melee,Project M, or Smash 4.
But god damn, i'm so used to playing smash 4 and brawl i just cant go back to melee.
I picked fox for old time's sake and i immediately side+b'd off the stage. Also i just simply cant keep up with the good players at my school, when they use all their fancy tactics and combos. and link just seems to be garbage in melee too, so i clearly just dont know how to use him as good as i do in project M and Sm4sh.
Personally i prefer, Project M over Melee. Not too fast, not too slow. And it helps that the boomerang doesnt stop me when im trying to do cool shit with it. Atleast with Project M and Smash 4, i can keep up with the better players.
you know, until they break my relentless assault tatic.
You have four stock. The character is balanced around its ability to be able to take on stock per grab. His grab itself is really bad, low range, low startup, and its only possible if nana is close enough to perform the infinite.
Fox can do much worse yet no one complains
I dunno. I think 64 would be #4 casually just because it has the least amount of characters and stages to play around with. Plus, Classic Mode is the same thing every time. Competitively it fares much better because those things aren't as important.
Semi-tourney fag reporting in.
Had a lot of fun with sm4sh for a month of FG and playing with friends but kind of bored already. I could play melee/PM for months on end and not get bored so really means something.
No wavedashing isn't sm4sh's problem, defensive game is too strong, lack of movement options, momentum not carrying forward, lack of advanced techs.
It really is brawl 2.0. It's not a bad game, it's just a bad competative game
Not that anon,, but I think he's talking about playing with friends. Let's not mess around, we all know Melee had the best physics and fastest gameplay overall, even with the use of AT.
Aside from some events here and there and some small local shit brawl was pretty much dead long before Smash 4 came around.
i enjoy the game for what it is but generally speaking its the worst one out the entire series.
The best thing it did for the series was that it was so broken you could crash the game and load mods in the stage builder.
It was never really that strong. The Brawl scene didn't really have many brawl exclusive players. It was mostly made up of losers from Melee + M2K looking to get some extra prize money on the side. All the best Brawl players were melee players that couldn't cut it and M2K because he played for the money. I only ever watched brawl finals because brawl was awful and even the finals were terrible. 8 minute long 3 stock matches of 2 metaknights standing on either side of the stage waiting for the other to approach. It was miserable.
all of my friends and family got bored of smash 4 in about a month.
The stage builder stuff lacks atmosphere and just feels bland to play on, we hate pretty much all of the new items, and my friends who have played since 64 complain about a lot of missing things that made the games feel good to play.
its not banned at many tournaments tho, and not getting grabbed inst hard, sure its a shitty gimmic but most top teirs have some form of shitty gimmics that make them good, fox and falco have 1 frame imput combo makeres, sheik has chain grabs on 90% of the cast and free follow up on most of her moves. Marth kills early with tippers and guess what, he has chain grabs on the top 2 characters, peach has float cancling allowing her to do moves almost lagless from air into the ground, and an rng way to get a free stock as well as chain grabs on fox, falco and falcon,. Jigs has an insane neutral game witha 1 hit ko move that things can combo into. falcon is 1 hit to death combo with knee killing at 40% most of the time, and ice climbers has kill off grab if both nana is alive and close enough to start down tilting
The only letdown is the lack of features for me. The game would be 10/10 if it had a few things
>custom move shop
>custom for glory
It doesn't help that you can't even check messages live or send random messages with the Wii U, crippling the online experience
>you do realize that its banned for a reason at pretty much all tournaments that matter, right?
Wasn't banned at BEAST, RoM, Apex, SKTAR, EVO, CEO, MLG, Kings of Cali, Zenith... Hell, literally the only major tournament it IS banned in is Big House and everyone gives the TO shit about it. Yeah it's lame and nobody likes being subjected to the only 100% inesapable 0 to death in the game any more than the Ice Climbers mains like that most of the stylish, impressive punishes their characters are capable of are made obsolete by it, but wobbling isn't a broken technique by any means. They have a terrible grab range and speed, it requires Nana's finicky AI to be in close range and not in the middle of something else, and even with wobbling Icies aren't even close to being a broken character.
This is wrong.
There were plenty of players who started their Smash career in Brawl. Nairo and Salem are 2 I know were prominent in the Brawl community. Most of the Melee community went back or moved on to PM.
>Atleast with Project M and Smash 4, i can keep up with the better players.
But Project M uses the same mechanics and physics as Melee unless the 1 frame delay really makes a huge difference for you.
>inb4 muh momentum, and wavedashing
lel you're saying lack of jump momentum isn't a valid complaint?
Aside from feeling unnatural as fuck for a game like Smash it pretty much kills everything that made characters like Falcon fun
Maybe. They got rid of the old vectoring, so I'd imagine that it could be somewhat more competitive. Maybe a patch or two. If we complain hard enough, that is.
>It was never really that strong
Not necessarily, it was larger than Melee up until early 2013 maybe and never really died until earlier this year. Brawl died from a combination of Melee and later PM becoming insanely popular, the degenerate meta finally taking a toll on people's patience, and being replaced with a game that basically the same thing but with the most overtly retarded aspects removed. That said, it's pretty hilarious just how dead the game is now, it has less entrants than fucking 64 at Apex next year.
No one's fucking banned wobbling since like 2009. What planet do you live on? Wobbling is the only thing that prevents ICs from being absolute garbage, and they're not even top tier with it.
You wanna beat ICs? Learn Ganon or one of their other counters. They're a one trick pony with a really good trick.
If you mean stiff, it's only stiff if you don't know how to move. Melee has the sharpest and most responsive controls in the serious, and even Sakurai boasts about it. If you don't have the dexterity to move around well though, it'll feel stiff for you.
The only thing "stiff" about Melee's controls are that dashing is slightly less responsive than it could be, other than that no other game in the series offers the degree of precision and control Melee does.
It's been dead at least since PM got popular, and on life support even before that.
I dunno if it was ever that strong though. I think at first it was but then it quieted down somewhat fast
It takes a lot more than a grab to set up wobbling. You've got to have Nana in the right position with a tilt already queued up. If you're putting any pressure on Nana at all, it's impossible to get wobbled.
Project M needs work still. I play PM, but I feel like the physics in it still aren't on par with Melee's yet and have yet to see a match as fast as a high level Melee one. Hopefully 4.0 makes it more solid.
>that one set where he tried to act like M2K and pull out a DK on a no name Falco player and gets his shit smacked, even when going back to Falco
>top 15 player, made top 8 for a 970 man tournament
>one of the most technical players in the world
Granted he has a knack for making his way into combo videos on the receiving end but it's retarded to say he's not a good player.
Telling you not to get grabbed against a ice climber player is one of the most childish arguments that one could make. Not gonna say you're not wrong, but when their game is based around making a grab happen it's going to happen. Even mango has been wobbled many times. When a players style is based around the setup, they'll fuck the gameplay around making that grab. There's nothing legitimate about it, and its execution isn't hard either after the initial setup, which only requires them to be synched.
Fly amanita and wobbles himself are really the only legit climbers in my eyes because they dont need wobbling. I respect them because they move the char itself forward, not a gimmicky infinite with almost no execution barrier aside bump bump hump bump bump....throw...fsmash/dsmash.
Sincerely, a smasher who has to deal with no talent wobblescrubs at every fucking tournament I go to. I've developed a peach out of neccessity for their faggotry simply because I'm tired of having to play melee like its brawl to not get grabbed.
What irks me the most about Smash 4 is what they did to this faggot
He was probably the only character in Brawl with interesting movement/combos and they decide to nerf him instead of making the rest of the cast equally fun and viable.
By the way is that actual thing that mac has on kong or is donkey kong just madly mashing up b in between hits.
Is this a trick to make me think there is cool shit in the game?
Smash 4 and P:M have completely and utterly killed brawl, casually or competitively it offers next to nothing special aside from SSE, which who hasn't suffered through samurai's wet dream kirby adventure by now. >>277499702
>but I feel like the physics in it still aren't on par with Melee's yet and have yet to see a match as fast as a high level Melee one
I feel that's mostly because there are a lot more midweight and floaty characters with weaker punish games being used in PM compared to Melee, Fox vs. Falco would probably be just as fast in PM as it is in Melee.
Smash4 is still a defensive orientated game, but it also has a lot more offensive options than Brawl did, and at the end of the day depending on the players it can still be entertaining (compared to brawl where even the best players were still subject to 10 minute shieldoffs just to get one move in for 5% damage)
It has the potential, and now that meleefags are coming around to it because of perfect pivoting (because according to them the game was literally unplayable without some broken mechanic to abuse) we'll probably see more tourney presence and it'll probably take longer to fade away than brawl did.
It's a nice medium between Melee and Brawl, and as long as the meleefags don't get too autistic about it, it can definitely find it's own place.
It's at Apex, for some reason. I get that they want to have 4 Smash games and they dropped PM for some reason, but no one is going to fucking play Brawl. I'm pretty sure I heard someone say it currently has less entrants than 64, he could have been joking, though.
The Brawl players and some PM players are going to play Smash 4 and the Melee players will of course play Melee, Brawl doesn't really seem to have a scene.
Said players have also placed very highly in tournaments where wobbling is banned (ie Nintendude at Big House) or have chosen not to use wobbling (Wobbles at basically anything he's attended in the past year), so clearly the technique isn't broken in it of itself.
I know it's unwise to get my hopes up, but it's just such blatantly stupid design and every review I've read of 4 overlooks it.
>this character was overpowered in the last game
>better remove everything that made him special instead spending more time balancing!
Not likely. Particle effect that happens when you land a smash attack is an immediate signifier that someone is about to die, even on the Omega stages.
Temple is literally the only level with decent blast zones that the particle effect does not immediately signify a kill... but then it suffers from having the pit at the bottom of the stage where everything gets stuck in.
>it's really hard to do
if you don't know how to play melee past a casual level, sure. But like most of the other chain grabs it's piss easy to pull off if you know what you're doing
And iirc the only notable place it's been banned has been Big House. It's still legal everywhere else but if you pull it out without it being a last resort you're pretty much showing how much of a faggot you really are.
Only ones I've seen since 3.5 are Chillin playing Wolf and Hbox winning that tourney as Jiggs, and his gameplay with wolf is just shine -> down-air, with side-b sometimes. Hbox was prett legit though.
I would like to see Mango try playing Project M 3.5 as Fox or Falco on one of the classic Melee stages against another popular Melee player who picked a high-tier, and then hear their opinions on it. I want to know if they say it feels exactly like they were in Melee, or if there was something missing or off (aside form nerfs between Melee and PM).
>Dash dancing is still in
No, it isn't.
>Combos are back too.
They really aren't.
>if you're still asspained about wavedashing, check into perfect pivot.
PP is absolutely nothing like wavedashing.
Problem I have with Smash 4 right now (in For Glory) is that defensive play is champion.
I play Marth in FG 1v1, so I can't be campy, I have to be in their face all the time. But it sucks fucking SHIT when faggots roll around and play the clock so they can use a range move and try to win. This is NOT fun to play. Fucking come at me and make me outsmart you.
It's no fun chasing a Duck Hunt/Sonic/Robin/Link/DeDeDe around the fucking stage.
Shit like this is disgusting. The best matches I've had are people who are offensive and constantly applying pressure.
Indeed she is, anon.
Ah, didn't know that for sure. I figured that probably was the reason,though.
So it fucking does have less entrants than 64, jesus christ.
PM was dropped because Nintendo finally saw the light for competitive events, and they didn't want any potential legal ramifications for showcasing a hacked version of a nintendo game with them "in the room" so to speak.
and of course the aftermath is nothing more than a testament to how autistic melee/PM fans can really get.
I know for a fact that the only people who play melee are autistic teens with an unfounded superiority complex and filthy jungle animals too poor to afford an actual fighting game.
Prove me wrong
>64 has more entrants than brawl
>Dash dancing is still in, you just have to git gud
no. dash dancing is not in. if you think Smash 4's "dash dancing" is useful in the same way that Melee's is, then you're horrible at both games
>Combos are back too
Smash 4 combos are all boring gayass shit like Sheik chaining utilts and fairs, or Diddy's throw -> uair bullshit. there's nothing anywhere near the level of Melee's
Granted, some people prefer the lack of combos (I certainly prefer Melee's style) but if you think Melee combos are back you're delusional or ignorant or both
You don't even have a point to argue with, and from seeing you spout meleefag and autism, you're obviously not worth the attempt at one either.
Reading through any Smash thread or getting half decent at Melee or Project M to know the differences between them and Smash 4 past "muh defensive meta," should help you out though.
This anon understands
2 hit combos are more or less the best you can hope for which is boring as fuck, after that it is just reading your opponent/strings.
PP is fucking retarded shit, 1 frame to pull off, so fucking unreliable and small practical use compared to wavedashing
I think it has potential. I've been watching a lot of the clash tournaments videos and there is some really high paced action in there. The game does have a fair amount of shielding and rolling, but it doesn't slow the game down to the point of boredom. Stocks last ~1 minute from what I've seen and the new ledge mechanics are partially at fault for extending lives. If people still don't want to move on from melee that's fine. However, it seems a bit much at this point. I think people would happily watch smash 4. It's improved from brawl and it looks gorgeous in action. The wide variety of characters that are actually viable for competitive play also adds to the possible viewer interest.
Is okay to ask for some Dong webms here?
I don't care which ones you have, I need some dong webms
>Dash dancing is still in
In a completed neutered and essentially useless form.
>Combos are back too.
I honestly prefer Brawl's followup system of purely frame traps and reads over Smash 4's braindead and boring "combo" system consisting entirely of throws>one aerial or repeatedly using stale moves with weak upwards knockback.
>And if you're still asspained about wavedashing, check into perfect pivot.
Perfect pivoting is a technique that's been in every Smash game since the original and has been situational or completely outclassed in all of them, it achieves only a fraction of what wavedashing can do.
seems like i hit a nerve.
>>Smash 4 combos are all boring gayass shit like Sheik chaining utilts and fairs, or Diddy's throw -> uair bullshit. there's nothing anywhere near the level of Melee's
Smash 4 has no combos, it was designed to be this way. ANYTHING can be escaped from witht he proper DI or vectoring (it was nerfed, not removed completely). Any infinite combos that are discovered were patched out too iirc.
Smash 4 really only has attack strings where you just have to keep throwing out attacks and hope the enemy lets you land a follow-up.
PM gets dropped but brawl remains.
Would easily be 200+ PM entrants. Fucking apex jewing out to Nintendo and not sticking to what the actual community wants. That and nintendo supposibly cattering to the esports community but doesn't actually care what we want and forces PM off the list
sickening all around
You have to get the grab with nana being alive and right next to you. In most close encounter, nana will manage to get hit and get knock away, so even if you get a grab with popo, you will just have to do a regular throw or the opponent will wiggle out. It's quite fair and IC is not even top tier despite requiring a very good technical knowledge as well as luck to play (you hope nana AI don't go full retard and throw a set for you)
It already has. Its got a good competitive scene going now and it'll only get bigger and better as the meta is still very young. I mean the game just came out.
Shit is hype and in my opinion more competitively balanced and fun than Melee.
wait, so does this mean there will ACTUALLY BE TIME SET OUT JUST FOR BRAWL?
I seriously hope that they have a fucking second stream to air that on. I'd rather watch marvel than that snooze-fest.
>mfw from AZ
>mfw seeing AXE absolutely wreck silentwolf
Get fucked nigga.
Meta Knight was actually so broken that many of his moves were fast enough (fucking 2 frame up air) to combo into each other before the airdodge of of hitstun window of 13 frames which made him one of the few characters to actually have true combos in Brawl, probably more than he does in Smash 4.
I play Smash 4 a lot and enjoy it, but there are no combos in this game unless you count the few characters who can get one aerial or maybe a dash attack off of a throw at low percents. Characters move too far away from each other and airdodging is too strong for their to be any real follow ups.
have fun with your cod's and gay ass 3d rpgs
I'll have fun with some good old fashion turn based-rpg with good writing
I think Smash 4 is good for competitive play. With Melee, if you don't pick a super fast character you will lose in minuets, Smash 4 is just way more balanced. I've seen people kick ass with characters like Mega Man, shit is hype.
To be fair ice climbers dont have much else besides that
It's like complaining about fox's shine or falcons knee or marths range
Its a little more extreme but some characters will have major advantages in one particular area. Get over it. Yeah it kinda sucks and a stupid way to win but so is playing jigglypuff and spamming back airs. It's pretty easy to gimp Nana and solo popo blows ass.
It's probably the match up. The most popular match up for melee are the fastest match up possible, while in PM there are all kind of match up being played since the meta is still new.
If you watch any melee match with samus in it, it's pretty much extremely slow as well
The with Smash 4 is that the combos are either braindead flowcharts of maybe 2-3 hits or completely nonexistent especially at higher percents, there isn't really any room for creative or situational followups like in Melee.
Played Smash 4 for about a month now. I only play with a group of friends and we're all at a decent skill level, so there's not much campy shit. I mainly only find overly defensive plays online and with certain characters, but overall I really like the pacing of the game.
I'm still going strong too and I'm watching m2k's streams to improve my play now as well. Compared to PM and Melee, which only lasted me a month before I got bored of them.
I'm somewhat new to competetive smash but I've been playing Ganondorf in SSBM. Any tips on the Falco matchup? Laser spam shuts me down and I get pillar comboed like crazy. And I don't think Ganon's chaingrab on Falco is within human reaction times. In particular, I get destroyed on Final Destination.
>Especially against Links, seriously, fuck Link.
Fucking agreed. They do nothing but spam arrows and their side b. It's fucking annoying. Fight me like a man!
I had a Duck Hunt constantly roll and spam clay/can and forward smash. Once he got a kill off me, he taunted my ass so I just ran and gave no fucks, tipped his asshole out of there.
I don't know about any of that, but I just plain like 4 way more. Some friends and I played both it and Melee last night and we all enjoyed 4 more by a lot. Most of the characters felt a lot better in 4 to us. Feels good to not be a competitivefag.
I've had more
funwith sm4sh than any of the other 3.
>playing melee with friends
>mfw picking Bowser, DK, or Ganondorf
going back to 4 after playing melee for an hour was jarring to say the least
mega man is the best projectile character in the game, his MUs are just really skewed because he can't handle the high/top tier who have the run speed/ground game to ignore his zoning, thus he'll probably be mid high at best i think
i don't think his customs are supposed to be anything special though, so i think he'll fall off a bit when/if customs emerge more
>fox's only good thing is his shine
>falcon's only good thing is his knee
It will probably be one of the first tournament to start, with Melee pools and other stuff.
Either that or will play on stream after everything else is done.
Brawl is gonna get no love, it's kind of sad
Sm4sh has a lot of potential, but rage mechanic and being extremely favorable towards a defensive playstyle holds it back a lot. I don't think it's humanly possible to find a matchup more fucking boring to watch than Sonic vs Rosa, or either of the two matching up against anyone else in the game because one is a 100% opportunist playstyle character and the other is someone who would probably wait out the clock from start to finish waiting for you to make a move and then plays keepaway when her meatshield dies.
God I hope that faggot dies.
Is he actually pushing for certain characters to get banned?
you've obviously never seen competitive melee because peach, ice climbers, luigi, dr. mario, yoshi, jigglypuff, and even ganondorf are viable.
oh, just another sm4shbabby who doesn't understand why every game before brawl was good.
Yeah because he was fucking broken.
Up throw to Up B is a combo I think too. Don't get mad at me anon. I don't play Meta Knight in Smash 4 or Brawl very much so I know little combos with him
>Marth player having trouble with rollspam
I have personally played against at least 2 Marth players from /vg/ who punish rolls like they've been doing it all their lives. Marth (and Lucina by default) is one of the best roll punishers in the fucking game with that side B and dtilt.
A campy playstyle revolving around shielding.
Which actually isn't that bad because you don't see it too much as players get good. Watch some of Mew2king's stream for example - there's not much defensive play at all. Defensive play exists mainly for low-middle tier players who haven't git gudded yet.
Nailing the timing for links that are a couple frames long isn't exactly fun or easy
It's fun when you finally can pull off the shit on command but sitting in practice mode trying to link 4 vega crouching pokes together isn't most people's idea of a good time
Y-yeah? Does anyone know if there are any places near Massachusetts that do tourneys? I-i think I might do good
>Diddy has plenty creative combos
That's the exact character I had in mind when thinking of braindead flowchart autocombos and the rest of those characters aren't really helping your case. Honestly I wish Smash 4 apologists would focus on a different aspect of the game to defend because even high level Smash 4 players would not pretend the combo game is anywhere near as deep or engaging as Melee's.
I've been watching competitive Smash 4 since 3DS release, and all I've ever seen is gameplay that resets to neutral for 90% of the duration of the match. none of the hits are meaningful, the players just slowly chip each other up to kill%, and the most exciting moments are just gimps. It's only been 3 months but I'm already bored to death of it.
Meanwhile I've been watching Melee tourneyfaggotry since 2007 and I'm still not bored of it. it's just got so much going for it. the things that you can pull off with the game's engine are so crazy that it never gets old.
What skillcap exactly is in smash 4?
I've done a bit of for glory and played diddy. I spammed safe hit boxes and spammed really safe grab into aerials. When I was in trouble I knew I could roll to safety. I also through a banana sometimes.
I didn't have to learn any play style or tech skills
I didn't have to learn exciting combos and options
I didn't have to learn any movement skill
I didn't learn any particular match ups because everyone has the same vague faggoty strategy. The only real character types is projectile spammers and "i'm going to grab you"
I can't recall dropping a single game
If you really think that the game is any deeper then that you have brain problems and should probably off yourself
Let me get this straight...
People actually miss long drawn out combos where you just bounce around someone as they helplessly wait for you to knock them off stage?
Thats the type of game you want to play?
Not that guy but he didn't say he couldn't handle it.
He said he doesn't have fun playing with people who don't like to play aggressive. What's so hard about reading?
Well in my opinion how you feel about Melee is how I feel about Smash 4. I guess we just have different opinions
Didn't say it doesn't work at high percents. Just saying its easier at lower ones
There are no combos past maybe a couple of up-tilts from certain characters. At high percent, you get launched far as fuck all the time to the point where you've recovered from being stunned by the time your enemy is anywhere near you. Following up on attacks when they go flying is even worse due to the multiple air-dodges making it a pain in the ass.
I think Smash 4 would have been 10x better if they at least compromised with the Melee air-dodge by making it so that you could only dodge once, but instead of going straight into free-fall, you just couldn't jump again. Like fox/falco's side-b in sm4sh, but instead of not being able to side-b, you lose your jump.
The story remains the same regardless of what title it is, you can escape combos in every smash game, even smash 64. It's up to you to figure out how, not every game is made to hold your hand.
if he doesn't have fun with what is literally marth's playstyle then he should just pick a different character
yea, he's one of the main people bitching about Diddy being OP because of the Dthrow > Uair combo killing early
here's his twitter from a month or so ago:
and here he is a few days ago playing diddy like the fat spic fuck he is
to be fair, lucario is actually broken. Aura plus rage means that if he's over 100% damage he can one hit KO most of the roster and gives him an absolutely broken recovery (it's even worse than Villagers, and can also kill).
But diddy is nowhere near that broken. Sure he's fast and dthrow > uair feels cheap, but other than that he doesn't have much going for him.
But that's wrong. Some anon posted video links. Go watch those because they have some damn good combos in them and there are plenty more ive seen and done in the game. Git gud.
Why does Zero even bother he's not even that good at Smash honestly
so is PM supposed to feel stiffy or am I just not used to it yet?
I play wario in 4, and while the aerial movement feels wonderful, why the fuck does his grab and bite feel so laggy in pm, jesus
Don't ask me, I play Marth passive, I know he has too much landing lag on his fair and nair to not try anything too crazy.
>smaller group than melee fags
>meleefags are this fucking delusional
now i know fighting games haven't gotten the call of duty treatment yet but come the fuck on, you can't be serious.
well comparing him to Ike isn't fair when Ike is a beast
nigger quake is still played competitively at tournaments, but i don't go around threads telling call of duty and battleflop fags that quake is going to be more popular than fucking battleflop in a few years. do you even know why i don't? because spewing shit is wrong and you shouldn't do it.
I feel you, man. Everything about the edgeguard Mango pulls off in game 4 of this set is mindblowing
the craziest part is that the shine doesn't even hit but it's still a perfect response
combos means that there is enough hitstun for you to actually make your next hit, With smash 4, the hitstun is so low and knockback is so high the next hit can't be considered an actual combo.
So evidently Smash 4's scene isn't dedicated enough to come to the biggest Smash tournament in the world, the biggest Smash 4 tournament so far and probably the best overall indicator for the scene relative to other Smash games.
>At my first tournament
>Going in the Brawl and Melee tournament
>Meet Zero there
>Ask to play a match with him as i wait for my name to be called
>We go with Brawl cuz he wanted to
>Pick my boy Sonic (usually switch to Fox second round as that's my set)
>This fucker picks Meta Knight
>Immediately starts spamming up air on me
>Cant get out
>Does this the entire match
>Only get one stock off him
>Next round switch to Fox
>Starts doing it again
>Try to tell him to be someone else without looking like a bitch
>Doesn't get my nods for him to switch
>Asks for one more round
>Does it again
>Leaves without a word
Fuck this fucker I'll never forgive him
>guy keeps yelling "SHORYUKEN"
>even when Megaman is clearly not doing the shoryuken move, but the Hadouken-esque move
Otherwise an okay match
you're stupid if you think the competitive scene for Smash 4 is larger than Melee's at the moment. Melee has had like a dozen tourneys with over 100 entrants since Smash 4 released, and Smash 4 has had... maybe one or two? Did KTARXIII get over 100?
unless you're talking about the number of casuals playing the games casually on a daily basis, in which case, who cares? that's not relevant to the discussion
I'm going to my first melee tourney tomorrow.
Any tips for pikachu and how to get into the competitive scene?
the Melee scene has grown to be larger than any smash game (and most fighting game scenes in general, like all of theme save 2 or 3) over the course of the last 2 years. it's bigger than it's ever been
The hitstun is the same as in Melee but doesn't have the Brawl airdodge out of hitstun thing. Any issues with following up is probably because of a lack of momentum or too much landing lag.
Just have fun
As for pika, learning to sweet spot recoveries is helpful, and understanding uair hitboxes. Also down spam b-down like a casual, although it can be a useful follow up after an up-smash.
Its amazing how Meleefags don't take into account that Melee has been out for YEARS while Smash 4 just came out. I would EXPECT less combos to be known, and a smaller scene to boot.
>scene = how many 9 year olds play the game at home
ok billy, I guess you can win every internet argument if you just change the meanings of words to fit what you said in your first incorrect post
One of my mains is Pink Robin but I actually prefer crazy levin sword CQC and those crazy electric aerials. I really only use her projectiles if they start running or my sword goes to shit.
Yeah and none of the advanced tech shit is necessary to play melee well but if you want to really git gud you're gonna need to get that shit down pat
of course any player that really wants to git gud will learn that shit in time but for most people if gitting gud means lots of time and practice on stuff like strictly timed links they wont bother. Of course that's what seperates really good players from just your normal players but it would be nice to see a fighting game that mixes it up a bit and makes the really advanced shit a little bit easier and not so reliant on muscle memory repetition type shit
So to combo / chaingrab people you're supposed to react to their DI and follow up appropriately, right? And for neutral game you're supposed to react immediately after the opponent acts to punish moves, and stuff like that? All the guides and stuff I read seem really intimidating.
I tested my reaction time online (http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime) and averaged around 330 ms, which is 20 frames.
What's your reaction time?
prepare to be raped
more combos were known when Melee was 3 months old and played casually by 12 year olds than the vast autistic research community of Smashboards has managed to figure out for Smash 4 during thousands of combined hours of study
if you honestly think that competitive Smash 4 will ever look like competitive Melee, then you suffer from a fundamental lack of understanding of the mechanics of each game
All you need to do is
>No, it isn't.
Yes it is.
>They really aren't.
Yes they are.
>PP is absolutely nothing like wavedashing.
You clearly haven't seen it in use.
>no. dash dancing is not in.
Yes, it is. The timing is different, but it is still in. You are probably thinking of foxtrotting.
>In a completed neutered and essentially useless form.
Same as the other guy, you are probably thinking of foxtrotting. Dash dancing is in, the timing is just tighter.
>I honestly prefer Brawl's followup system of purely frame traps and reads over Smash 4's braindead and boring "combo" system consisting entirely of throws>one aerial or repeatedly using stale moves with weak upwards knockback.
You are this bad.
>Perfect pivoting is a technique that's been in every Smash game since the original
Except that isn't true at all. There was a similar technique in Melee, but it didn't do the same thing this does.
I know what it is. But the dude kept calling it his "shoryuken" when, if anything, it was closer to a "hadouken" even though it's none of those. I was just pointing out that the commentator had no idea what he was talking about.
the way it's meant to be played robin bros
>more combos were known when Melee was 3 months old
Melee didn't get proper recognition until years after its release. Several techniques like washdashing and l-cancels weren't properly utilized until much later. Until then, there were barely any "proper" combos.
I know you want 4 to look bad, but stop pretending Melee's competitive scene was amazing right from the get go.
Mario utilt is guaranteed for 2-3 hits on any fresh stock
The difference is that Melee has happened, and as soon as smash 4 was even released on 3DS, everyone who was good was looking for combos witht heir main, and none were found past infinite combo glitches.
Smash 4 only has attack strings.
>I play Marth in FG 1v1, so I can't be campy, I have to be in their face all the time
Is this really what every new player thinks? I have seen people slap "rushdown"/"aggressive" onto every character, even fucking DK and Samus
You are a retard and I hope you die
that's 32 frames and it's slow as fuck anon, luckily it won't really affect much of your play unless you try to pick up Captain Falcon and dthrow spacies for tech-chase regrab on reaction. most of the neutral game and combos operate more on prediction/reads than on reaction time
I assume you're talking about Melee, though, because DI in Smash 4 just consists of 'hold up/down and away from the enemy to escape combo', the DI mixups are nonexistent
expect to get 4 stocked. a lot.
and if it's a semi-known tournament expect a few of the lesser known "pros" to show up and act as if they fucking own the place, only to get owned by a skilled player and then you have to spend the rest of the tournament listening to them john about how it wasn't their fault they let some unknown player beat them.
Every fucking Smash 4 player who uses this logic is retarded, of course Melee developed slower because nobody expected the game to have the competitive depth it did and the scene wasn't established at all. Now people have had 2 game's worth of experience dissecting the game's engine, searching every nook and cranny for exploits, finding all the frame data and using strategies from previous games as a benchmark which is especially important considering how Smash 4 vs. Brawl are probably the most similar any two Smash games have been. There was probably more found out about Smash 4 in the first week than there was about Melee in the first 3 years. Also, literally any other series would have the brand new hyped game be the most popular by far, the fact that a 13 year old launch title for a 2 generation old console has twice as many entrants for the scene's biggest tournament is kind of pathetic.
>Zucco's spacing with the buster.
Holy shit. I hope he keeps playing Mega
What the fuck am I going to do then as Marth? Sit on the other side spamming my jabs? Of course I'm spacing my tips and all that, but it is not fun playing against a faggot who plays the clock constantly.
dumbass I figured out stomp knee and Fox's uthrow-uair within a month of playing it as a kid. shit's intuitive as fuck, I'm not claiming that Melee's competitive scene was amazing at all. it didn't take off at all, but the fact is that the combo potential of the two games are readily apparent and you don't have to wait a million years to tell whether or not there will be bigass combos
>Dash dancing is still in, you just have to git gud.
It has no utility even if you "git gud" with the 2 frame window of that horse shit
>Combos are back too.
Definetly nothing like Melee or 64s combos. They're all guarenteed horse shit that only work at low%s or out of really weak hits
CONFIRMED for not knowing what the fuck you're talking about
The competitive scene didn't exist at all when Melee came out, Smash 4's scene has two game's worth of experience analyzing the game in excruciating detail, they're not even remotely comparable. The fundamental nature of Smash 4's gameplay will not change if some obscure exploit is found a few months or years down the line.
Dash dancing is in but, here's the thing. It only be done in a very small area, meaning if an opponent try to approach, you will still take the hit unless you were already moving out of the way. Look at some Melee or PM dash dancing videos to get what I'm talking about.
Combo game in Smash 4 is very weak, I won't go into it.
PP is not wavedashing, it puts you into a neutral position, but does not have the versatility that wavedashing has such as wavelanding onto a platform, or off of a ledgejump, not only that it has you face the opposite direction of your opponent.
Yeah, I've been thinking that better recovery might mean more exciting and rewarding off-stage play in the long run as people get more comfortable with the movement and characters.
What? 60 frames per second * .330 seconds = 20 frames. Right?
Yeah I'm talking about Melee. I'm doing best with ganondorf since I try to predict my opponent's moved and stomp the shit out of him.
Well you see there's actually a functioning amount of hitstun in melee and you don't need to know how to wavedash to pull off combos you just gotta be fast enough to read the direction of your opponents trajectory and be good to enough to meet him on it
I dont know where everyone gets this idea that every melee player is constantly jittering back and forth wavedashing, I've only met like one person in my decade of playing melee who was even close to good enough to pull that type of shit off
>Same as the other guy, you are probably thinking of foxtrotting. Dash dancing is in, the timing is just tighter.
No I'm not, dash dancing in Smash 4 is useless because it's essentially turning around in one place, the initial dash animation is too short so the technique covers no ground.
>You are this bad.
>Except that isn't true at all. There was a similar technique in Melee, but it didn't do the same thing this does.
>tfw ice grabbers no longer in the game
I like this, no more gay infinite grab bullshit. Delicious 8 player smash
PP also only works for 2 frame windows for both flicks
If people can't get down Samus' SWD or Doc's UpB cancel consistantly then why the fuck would everyone suddenly be able to do PPing consistantly?
>Yes, it is. The timing is different, but it is still in. You are probably thinking of foxtrotting.
no. no it is not. the worthless shit found in Brawl and Smash 4 doesn't deserve the term dash-dancing because it's not useful for anything
I typo'd in this post. it's 22 frames not 32 frames
name them all? that's not really feasible since there's thousands depending on matchup and DI and %. but as a noob I remember figuring out
falcon uthrow > uair > knee, dtilt > regrab, stomp > knee,
sheik's dhtrow chaingrab, ftilt > fair, dair on grounded opponent > literally anything,
Fox uthrow -> uair/bair/nair/whatever, DK cargo uthrow > uairs > fair,
jigg's uthrow > rest on fast fallers, dthrow > rest on midweights
and those were just the characters I played
I'm not understanding you. You're basically trying to rationalize that Smash 4 having a small tournament scene at release is a bad thing. Every scene grows over time and need I remind you, Melee pretty much didn't even have a scene at launch.
>It's really easy to learn about this shit and not look like a huge idiot.
I agree, you should watch some videos.
>it puts you into a neutral position
And conserves your dash momentum while you execute an attack, with certain exceptions.
>not only that it has you face the opposite direction of your opponent
I'll give you a minute to think about why that isn't actually a problem.
>such as wavelanding onto a platform
You can perfect pivot or dash-dance immediately after landing, and in Smash 4 if you run off a platform, you continue the run when you land.
>but, here's the thing. It only be done in a very small area
So again, are you thinking of fox trotting?
It can be done, but it will take much practice, I see PP being used, but not too often as it will leave you open if not done correctly if you go for a smash attack that doesn't cover both sides.
I don't HATE brawl as much as other tournyfags, but it is the only game I will not watch simply out of spite for having it over PM
most brawl players have moved onto sm4sh considering it is essentially a better version of brawl. No point in keeping brawl around
>stomp knee existing in Smash 4
>uthrow uair knee existing in Smash 4
>fox uthrow > uair being a combo in Smash 4
>DK cargo uthrow chaining back into grabs with a uair in Smash 4
>jiggs being able to combo rest out of any throw in Smash 4
only if you don't know the definition of combo would you think that these are in Smash 4
>sheik's dthrow chaingrab
>chaingrabs existing in Smash 4
>faggots arguing whether SSB4, Melee, or 64 is the best
>not posting the true GOTYAY Brawl
Just look at this intense gameplay.
it allowed you to immediately position yourself elsewhere, land more easily, or perform a smash attack/grab without having to wait for your character to stop running since it resets you to standing position after using it.
i'm not even an advanced player and know this
>Every scene grows over time
Not true at all, most of them shrink after the initial hype wears down.
>Melee pretty much didn't even have a scene at launch.
Of course it fucking didn't, nobody thought anyone Smash Bros. had any competitive depth at that point, compared to now where Smash 4 has been released a decade, two games, and two competitive scenes later where those games have been featured in MLG and EVO among others, their environments are not even close to comparable. And yes, I DO find it pathetic that the brand new, hyped up game, despite the support of the entire Brawl fanbase moving on, the influx of new casual players, and the Nintendo's forced publicity for the competitive scene, STILL manages to be less popular than a 13 year old game in the same series. In most series absolutely everyone is obligated to play the new game and make it the most popular initially.
>it allowed you to immediately position yourself elsewhere
>land more easily
More easily as in what? As in be able to do something after you land or control where you go? Because this does both of those ✔✔
>or perform a smash attack/grab without having to wait for your character to stop running
You don't get it, PP off a jump requires more taps on your controller than just going for a straightforward attack. Making it a useless option. You would probably be better off doing a pivot grab or fsmash on a platform
Sure you can use you c-stick, but what if you want to do a jab mix-up? You have to turn you character back around, without causing your character to dash, and jab. More uneeded button presses.
No, I'm not talking about fox trotting, dash dancing is quickly running in and out of your opponents range, as to bait them to get approach. Smash 4 has this but the area in which you move is so small it wouldn't matter if you dd'd or not, you aren't actually going anywhere.
So sliding off platforms. I haven't tried it myself, but I'm pretty sure doing a perfect pivot off of a platform doesn't send you into a tumble, given how running off platforms works in Smash 4.
>More easily as in what
as in land immediately during upwards movement of a jump dipshit, in smash 4, Brawl and 64 you need to wait until the top of your jump's arc to fastfall, wait for the fastfall to bring you to the ground, then wait for your landing animation which is a few frames, then you can input a perfect pivot
in Melee you just airdodge while you go by the platform and you're already sliding on the first frame
for the hundredth time, that's not a combo
Ness walked into attacks 6 times in a row for that string to be possible
whereas if I know what I'm doing I can uthrow > uair > knee you 10 times out of ten in Melee
Smash 4 will live just like Brawl lived. I hope the people claiming to be Melee players and saying Smash 4 is going to die aren't being serious. Smash 4 is going nowhere. It's a better Brawl, and you all should know Brawl was the more popular game and community up until 2013. That was five years of it's lifespan.
I can't stand watching Smash 4 competitively, so I never tried it. I picked it up the night before a tournament and had decent fun playing it, entered and took some rounds off of people. Moving between Melee and Smash 4 at an event is really weird, no idea how people do it. The Smash 4 scene isn't going to die because Melee players aren't migrating in droves, same way Brawl's scene didn't die. Brawl's scene needed Melee's help to get off the ground, but by the end they were entirely on their own. It's those people who are going to be the ones to make Smash 4 successful as it starts up, not the Melee scene.
Also #oneunit is pure bullshit, by the way. Melee and PM are almost entirely separate from Smash 4 (and Brawl) and it's honestly better off that way. D1 is a gigantic self-promoting cocksucker and that is the only reason he continues pushing this obvious load of crap onto every community in Smash.
>PP off a jump requires more taps on your controller than just going for a straightforward attack
>Sure you can use you c-stick, but what if you want to do a jab mix-up?
>More uneeded button presses.
What are YOU talking about?
>Smash 4 has this but the area in which you move is so small it wouldn't matter if you dd'd or not, you aren't actually going anywhere.
Again, not true. You can do it in place, but you can also move with it depending on the timing you use.
Also wavedashing/landing can be done OoS, from a ledge, onto platforms, from the air to the ground, out of a dash, out of a jump cancel, and the length/speed can be adjusted. PP can do none of these.
>as in land immediately during upwards movement of a jump dipshit
So you mean "land faster". You said "land more easily", which is nonsense. I'm not a dipshit because you use the wrong words.
>then wait for your landing animation which is a few frames, then you can input a perfect pivot
And now you can do it as soon as you land, because in Smash 4 you can literally hit the ground running.
It is basically non-existent now. It's players moved to either Smash 4 or PM exclusively. The only high level Brawl player I know of that moved back to Melee was Mike Haze.
But what people seem to not understand is that the fact that it's practically dead now doesn't mean that it was never alive, or that it was never bigger than Melee.
Brawl was just a fixed Melee and no I'm not trolling, you know that shit was 2fast to be marketed to today's gaming audience
Read the comment and look at this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFLY_GmETxM Especially at 0:28, that is a proper DD.
I'm not going to spoonfeed you on basic smash jargon.
You can do it in place, but you can also move with it depending on the timing you use.
Try doing it like the video you character will do a sliding animation, not automatically go the direction you input, Smash 4 DD is like PP, an imitation without the full versatility.
PP requires you to be standing, so it can't be done out of a running animation. It can't be done from the ledge because you need to land on the stage first before initiating the pivot, same with platforms. Each character has a set PP length that can't be adjusted by changing the angle like wavedashing.
Combo video thread?
Combo video thread.
Have you seriously been brainwashed into thinking that what's good for business is what's good for consumers? Brawl didn't "fix" anything and was more apocalyptically unbalanced than Melee ever was.
I'm not denying that Smash 4 has guaranteed combos
I'm just pointing out that they're braindead, weak as hell, require no skill and are fucking boring
there's a reason people still watch Melee. in fact there are lots, and it's not just 'autism autism autism autism autism'
Melee combos > Smash 4 combos
Wavedashing > Perfect Pivoting
L-cancelling > waiting for auto-cancel window or using Sakurai's arbitrarily decided landing lag amount for every attack
Melee dash-dancing > Smash 4 dash-dancing
Melee ledges > Smash 4 ledges
Melee momentum > Smash 4 "momentum"
>responding to that shitty bait
Why the fuck are Melee players so fucking retarded in these threads all the time? And I say that as a Melee player who's been here since /v/ hated all of Smashboards for that irrelevant piece of shit Dylan.
>Smash will never EVER be accepted by the FGC due to how autistic the fanbase is over a 13 year old game
>Smash 4 DD is like PP, an imitation without the full versatility.
Sure, I don't think anyone would even argue that. But that's not what we're talking about. The anon's I've been talking to were saying they were useless, when clearly they are not. Are they as effective as the equivalent techs in Melee? Of course not. Are they so worthless that there's no point in even learning them, therefore meaning that there can be no technical play in Smash 4 at all? Of course not.
And that is what I'm saying.
not even mad at people that do shit like this, brawl is a joke that people like m2k only play for another tournament entry for more chances of prize winnings
i did laugh pretty hard when tripping screwed m2k over twice, anyone who at all respects fight games as a genre would never watch/play this shit (aside from of course another chance at $$$)
By "combos don't exist," I think the addendum should be added "barring throws>one aerial" or using the same upwards hitting low knockback move (ie up tilt/up air strings). There isn't really and room for longer, more situational and creative strings that you see in Melee because it's much easier to escape followups altogether in Smash 4. Honestly I prefer Brawl's followup system that relied purely on reads and frametraps vs. Smash 4's that consists entirely of braindead flowcharts.
I dunno, it's at Evo mainstage so I guess you can judge for yourself, after all I'm sure your opinions hold more clout than Justin's