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Good RPG Combat

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What are some RPGs with good combat? Dark Souls had good combat. Light attack, heavy attack, dodge, block, parry, etc. Been playing Divinity 2 and it's one where it comes down to clicking and potion chugging to negate the mountains of damage that will rain down on you. Click click click. No combos. No dance. Using number button skills. Jump-slashing. So many RPGs do that shit and it just ruins it for me.
>>
>>275309260
>So many RPGs do that shit and it just ruins it for me.
well you're just a gigantic faggot who thinks "RPG" stands for hack & slash game + level up system.
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>>275309260
Wizardry 8
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>>275309408
it has stats so yes its a RPG
>>
Dark Messiah
Witcher 2
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>>275309408
Most "RPGs" really don't have much going for them beyond that.

It's all combat. That's what drives the medium known as RPGs. Even in pen & paper, it's all turned into hack and slash combat roll for loot shit. You try to introduce an interesting narrative or a character and it ends with your players rushing to attack the ancient lawful good dragon because KILL THE DRAGON. EPIC LOOT M8.
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>>275309431
the combat in wizardry 8 kind of sucked.

>early game not enough mp to use spells
>late game enemies are immune to magic
>so much hp you have to rely on stun/instant kill
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>>275309840
wiz combat is glorious
mana being an actual resource? you mean like it always should be?
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>>275309776
>Even in pen & paper, it's all turned into hack and slash combat roll for loot shit.
Stop playing D&D 4 you gigantic faggot. You dont know shit about RPG.
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>>275309776
>[tipping intensifies]
Yeah calculating the errection of my penis based on my endurance and luck is surely fun.
>>
if it doesnt need to be old school crpg or 3rd person im gonna list my favorite combat systems of all time, in order. (its a personal list, not factual, dont go spergy on me)

Valkyrie profile 2
resonance of fate
lightning returns (basically valkyrie profile 3: lightning)
Ar tonelico 2
shadow hearts series
ar nosurge
ff x-2
grandia
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>>275309656
>Dark Messiah
Mah nigga
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>>275309260
Dragon's Dogma has better combat than Dark Souls
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>>275311110
seconded, even if it's easier it just fucking way more gratifying on the downside no spears.
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>>275311110
to bad the menu system and the fact its not on PC makes it unplayable for me
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>>275310295
>spend all of my fire mp to shoot fireball
>does dicks for damage
>every fight is wedging into a corner and waiting for samurai to instagib enemies.
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>>275309260

Lords of the Fallen has really solid combat that feels incredibly heavy and satisfying.

You could also look up Blade of Severance.
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>>275311337
the menu system was fine as long as your remember one's an inventory button and the other is the actual start menu button.
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Dark Messiah
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>>275311110
Dragon's Dogma has a worse 1v1 human-ish sized opponents than Souls but much better large monsters since it has a Shadow of the Colossus esc climbing mechanic.

However, DD still got things wrong that even SOTC did right and inherited many of the issues SOTC suffered from. In Dragon's Dogma for example climbing up to the back or head of a monster and letting go of the grab buttons results in you falling directly through the monster and hitting the ground, where as SOTC let you stand atop the Colossus.

DD is a strange mix really, the ground combat is mediocre, and doesn't feel nearly as good as souls, the Magic looks fantastic but most of the time lacks the punch you need. Climbing is passable but still inferior to SOTC and overall it's pretty fun but I wouldn't say it's better than souls. Souls does one thing really well and everything else kinda meh. DD does everything alright but nothing especially well.
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>>275312094
Dude. That's one thing I loved about Div 2. You also have a head spirit waifu in that.
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>>275309656
>Witcher 2
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>>275311110

This, honestly there is not coming back of climbing giant monsters. That feel of awesomeness was so fucking great.

The game lacked on a lot of stuff

wolves hunt in packs

but the combat was addicting and gratifying as fuck.
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>>275312383
Div 2 in a nutshell: A chick who can turn into a dragon fuses her spirit with you as she's dying and becomes a voice in your head while also empowering you and guiding you so that you can gain power, turn into a dragon, and beat the Antichrist.
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>>275312383
If you have not played Dark Messiah you really should pirate it if you must. It's one of those games like God Hand that everyone should give a try.
>>
I found Gothic and Gothic 2 combat to be quite nice
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>>275309260
>Dark Souls
>RPG combat

do you even know what a RPG combat is?

RPG Combat: Morrowind
Arcade Combat: Skyrim
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>>275311110
It really wasn't.

DD combat really wasn't that good at all, though.
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>>275311034
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>>275312579
Sounds like you either never finished the game or deeply misunderstood something.
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>>275312673
Dark Souls = RPG
Morrowind = FPS
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>>275311110
>We will never get a PC version
I enjoyed it on PS3 but Capcom is shooting themselves in the foot
>>
>>275312749
I'm working through it currently. Spent many hours last night slamming my head against damage spam areas last night. Finally took the tower.
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>>275312094
Xana is the only entity in Dark Messiah who you can truly trust.
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>>275311569
shit party
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>>275312749
This sounds like you fucked up anon.

Also a video to sell you guys on Dark Messiah it spoils the beginning though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82CYSdnu1nM
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>>275311110
>we will never see Dragon's Dogma at more than 20 fps
;_;
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>>275309260
mount and blade got really satisfying combat if you consider it an rpg
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>Playing Cisquisition because GF loves the series
>2H war has a block & counter skill
>hit it at just the right time
>the glorious sound of ringing steel fills the room as my character cuts a huge arc, knocking down everything in front of him
>oh god why isn't all the combat like this
>back to auto attacking
>tfw missed opportunities for greatness
>>
Actually been streaming Divinity 2, but nobody's been watching. Getting viewers on Twitch these days is seemingly impossible unless you spam ads.
>>
>>275309431
i recently got this game but haven't really tried it. new classes&races so really have to look into them so i know how to create my group and so on. i actually created a party but i have no clue if it's good or not.
>>275309408
this. action-rpg's shouldn't be considered rpg's anyways
>>
>>275312167
the climbing is toggle based you're not going to let go unless you're a fuck up. Souls is a very different animal you're suppose to really feel powerful and free in DD. Souls is more linear closed off and every enemy will pose some threat, it's also solo. These games are not really comparable because the scope of what the player can do and the way the battles are fought are entirely different.
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>>275312823
are you fucking retarded?

I hope this is bait

but anyway this is /v/, how could anyone expect a single person to be smart here
>>
>>275309260
Dark Souls is slow h&s with stats.
Try gothic/risen. They have really similar combat, but your moveset actually expand on level up while enemies are always dangerous even without scaling. And the stat do more than just murder death kill.
A h&s with better combat would be severance blade of darkness. Much more satisfying than souls. Too bad it has almost no rpg and keyboard centric control.
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>>275311704

Is it cracked yet?
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>>275313539
No, it isn't. Get a job, you worthless faggot.
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>>275313505
You're the only smart person anon everyone else in the world is an idiot compared to your mighty intellect.
>>
Sui generis
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>>275309260
>Dark Souls had good combat
This is just wrong.
>roll roll roll
>iframesiframesiframes roll roll
>parry parry parry even the biggest shit with 1 hand
Not in 100 years.
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>>275313362
>DAI combat is bad because it has auto attacking
>DAO combat is good, it also has auto attacking.
>Not only that, origins is one button press to auto attack
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>>275313636

Not thanks.
>>
Why are people talking about Divinity 2? I always heard that it had really shit combat.
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>>275309656
>Dark Messiah

to this date my favorite game of all time
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>>275313645
Yes, when I read posts like >>275312823
I can believe it
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>>275313706
DAO had shit combat too, everyone just had a hardon for spell combos
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>>275313652
To be fair, you could play De and D1 without the stupid rolling into attacks iframe bullshit with proper footwork.

Da2 not so much.
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>>275309260
Mountain Blade, obviously.
>>
One can say that Ys is more of an action game than a RPG (and the combat isn't too deep anyway), but if you're looking to dance during bossfights, you've got it.
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>>275313729
It has a certain charm to it you can also turn into a dragon.

>>275313945
Play Dark Messiah
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>>275309260
Try Divinity: Original Sin instead.

A thoroughly well-crafted combat system.
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>>275309260
Dark Messiah probably has the best combat I've ever seen.
Too bad I stopped playing in the spider temple.
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>>275309260
>Good RPG Combat
You idiots make the assumption that you can make a combat system in a set of systems inherently reliant on RNG "fair" and "skillful". That is what you equate with good combat and that's why RPGs end up being mere H&S shitfests.

A good RPG SHOULDN'T have good combat. There, I said it. Or to be more specific, good combat should only be a very minor focus of the game, its outcome depending predominantly on the choices you've made prior to it.
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>>275314037
I just finished Ys 1 and am now getting towards the end of Ys 2 and I'm finding them really fun. I've heard the series doesn't even take off until the next one so I'm really looking forward to it. The bump system is neat, but I definitely don't need another game of it.

Based on my limited experience I'd definitely recommend the Ys games.
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>>275313729
Untrue, It has simplistic combat.

Somewhere along the way, /v/ forgot the difference between simple, bad, good, complex.
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>>275314074
all in all, divinity:original sin is pretty nice game.
currently playing it and me thinks i'm rather far into the game
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>>275314118
>kick the game

It was good, but has aged poorly and you can really feel it.
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>>275314045
Not him, but
mountain blade > dark messiah

Parrying a sword attack later in their swing results in a longer delay before they can attack again, a subtlety to M&B most people don't know, I think it added more depth to the footwork than Dark Messiah had.
>>
Most classic RPGs generally rely on stats and numbers to determine combat and how you decide where those numbers go determine how difficult the combat will turn out. The knowledge and understanding of the system is usually more important than the execution. The reason why games like Diablo is all clickity click click is that you're seeing the results of what you've done with your character.

I see Dark Souls as a good example of combat but not the best for RPG combat since I've beaten the whole game at level 1 and there's not much knowledge to it other than just getting a decent upgraded weapon to rid of the monotony. The rest really just depends on your skill as an action player.
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>>275314313
It's a really, really good game for the first two playthroughs, especially the first when you're learning all the crazy stuff you can do.

Shame after that, it loses all re playability.
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>>275309260
>dark souls had good combat
>Divinity 2 had bad combat
Yeah man. 2 nearly identical attacks, a block and a roll.

That's such amazing combat.
>>
How do I stop sucking at Dark Messiah? I'm playing on Hard and it looks like I just can't afford to get hit. Should I kick even more?
>>
All cRPGs should just be SRPGs.
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>>275314207
Nah, although that makes sense in a stupid way it would mean the combat wouldn't be engaging enough.
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>>275314495
i actually re doubt that, RPGs tend to have great playability and im relatively certain i build my char/chars/party in various different ways.
serious question though, how many different henchmen are there in the game, i don't think i've gotten more than madora and jahan
>>
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>>275309260
>What are some RPGs with good combat?

I'm trying to make one.
pls no bully ;_;
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>>275314207
I don't know. It can work with tactical combat. Where you have to know the strengths and weaknesses of your party and how best to use them.

Through in a chance for party members to ignore orders based on their intelligence and charisma compared to the party leaders. And if the party leader goes down, you second in commands stats take charge. If you've given everyone charisma as a dump stat, then expect your party to constantly under AI control.
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>>275314797
That's why you should make it fast and nonintrusive.
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>>275312593
Too bad the combat is ass and the only thing fun is kicking people off ledges.
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>>275314598
I made the same mistake as you did. Don't play hard on your first playthrough the game is designed around normal. If you are not too far in restart
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>>275314548
>light attack
>heavy attack
>roll attack
>backstep attack
>jump attack
>parry/counter
>backstab

yeah only 2 attacks
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>>275314665
For some reason I can't stand playing this type of game on the PC. I've tried emulating sRPGs before and I barely play them for an hour. However I can play them for days on a handheld. I don't get it.
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>>275314870
Tactical combat in RPGs is long, boring and doesn't really compare with games that do it without the RPG elements.
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>>275314665
As much as I love FFT that game had some terrible design decisions.


Fuck Weigraf and elmdor man, you can't prepare for that shit on your first playthrough.
>>
>>275314827
You should push out some definition in the large black spots in the face and chest
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>>275314973
Could be because it would work so much better with mouse control, so it's annoying when you're at your PC.
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>>275309260
>dark souls
>RPG
heh

I bet you think zelda is an rpg
>>
>>275314957
>roll attack
>backstep attack
Excuse me
>combat in dark souls
Wait for enemy to attack.
Roll.
Attack twice.
Repeat until dead.
Repeat process until every monster in game is dead.
>>
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>Dark Souls had good combat. Light attack, heavy attack, dodge, block, parry, etc
Don't you mean, backstab, backstab, backstab, backstab, backstab, summon a guy to kill shit for me when I can't backstab it, and backstab. Because THATS how i saw pretty much everyone play through summons and invasions.
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>>275314815
>re doubt

Oh you.

There are 4 voiced and there are like 50 you can get inside your pocket dimension. the 50 are essetnially generics.

Some of them are OP through, like Cain, which starts at level 1 with 5 MoA. Of course, thats not as broken as it used to be.
>>
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>>275309260
Mount&Blade, obviously.

It's true that almost all action RPGs take the easiest possible way out. Crisis Core Final Fantasy VII comes to mind, even if I liked the game overall.
It makes me feel like puking when someone says that Oblivion or Skyrim have better combat than Morrowind does because it's still so terrible that it doesn't even matter.

Even Dark Souls is kinda lazy. The action doesn't feel elegant the way "proper" action games like Ninja Gaiden feel like, and it's not like it has anything to do with the speed of the combat. It's still probably the best one to do what it sets out to do out of all ARPGs.
>>
>>275315059
Most of all I should probably use a model whose rig is not fucked beyond repair but yeah... that's not on the picture.
>>
>mu rpg purity
>>
>>275315435
So, you're mad that there isn't a casual dodge button for you??
>>
>>275314395
>Parrying a sword attack later in their swing results in a longer delay before they can attack again, a subtlety to M&B most people don't know
I'm not sure if this is even a thing in the later versions of the game, but I remember playing M&B betas a lot and those would always report the speed bonus of attacks and blocks every time they happened. Understanding those sure made the online play much, much later easier to understand.
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>>275315294
Mountain blade has fucking awful combat.

Mash attack and block every ten minutes.

Seriously I have no idea why you guys keep saying it has good combat. The only decent thing about the game is the mechanics outside the combat, like keeping up your army and the different races.
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>>275314207
>A good RPG SHOULDN'T have good combat.
It just doesn't have to be in the form of action.
>>
>>275315242
yeah, re doubt should be "really doubt"
ok, i prolly should have checked into those henchmen, at least the voiced once. who are the 2 others?
>>
>dark souls
>RPG
>dark souls
>good combat
>roll into your enemy's weapon to win
smile_with_nose.jpg
>>
>>275315768
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG0YM35goSE

>Mash attack
>Block every 10min
>inb4 "they are just mashing different angles of attack!"
>>
MAXOS
>>
>>275309260
>What are some RPGs with good combat

>Dark Souls had good combat

ah you don't mean good you mean fucking simple you casual dumb faggot
>>
>>275315435
You could just remove the action altogether and leave it all to tactics. So basically Morrowind but with less realtime thing and awkwardness.

Incidentally, it would probably play better because you could actually design interesting mechanics instead of the whole combat boiling down to LMB spam, all you'd have to do is drop the pretense of "action".
>>
>>275315912

http://store.steampowered.com/app/322490/
>>
>>275316051
>shit music instead of just game audio
>swinging into a hammer's block, not trying to feint them out

I agree with you that M&B has great combat but that's a terrible start to a video about it
>>
>>275309260
Guess what, you don't like RPGs.
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>>275309260
>>275309656
>>275312094
>>275312593
>>275312964
>>275314045

I'm sorry I have to be this guy. But Dark Messiah's melee combat is garbage.

Everything about Dark Messiah's combat that's great is NOT the melee combat.

Abusing the physics/environment (traps, kicking, throwing, spells, etc) is what's great.

Melee combat feels floaty and tact on like your typical FPS-RPG. It has no depths and the attack variants are cosmetic at best.

Souls games are however the opposite. The melee combat is fantastic, but everything that's not melee feels boring and tact-on. Obviously it could be better, but Souls games lack any (intended) physics/environment manipulation.

Hellraid looks like it will be the next best thing right now.

But I'm skeptical since every game that showed promise ends up getting "back to the drawing board" treatment thanks to investors and comes out a complete disappointment.

>>275311110
>there are people on this planet RIGHT NOW, that believe this
>they're actually just a minority that won't shut up

There are very few highlights that make DD combat look great. You stupid faggots are so deluded you look past the majority that is trash.
>>
>>275316248
First result, audio isn't the issue, defeats mentioned arguments.

Do provide better to rub it in more.
>>
>>275316051
>>275316248

You faggots never cease to make me laugh.
>>
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>>275316293
>Dark Messiah's melee combat is garbage.
>>
>>275316293
I, actually agree.
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>>275315768
Go play some online mode and get wrecked because that's how you think the combat actually plays.
There's the whole movement system with its nuances, weapon reach, weapon speed, how that movement system affects your damage, how damage affects your movement speed,
then the whole speed bonus system with how blocking or getting blocked affects your speed bonus, how hitting your target affects it. Then there's even the fact that leftwise and rightwise swings are not identical but have different speed and reach. Hell, even attacks can sometimes block each other out because that's how the combat physics work.

This is what's running under that four way attack-block system, which alone is already better than what most action rpgs do.
>>
>>275316293

>no depth
>can stab at an enemy and miss by millimeters when they weave out of the way of your swing if you telegraph it badly enough
>directional swings push them in a direction allowing you to manipulate their position through swordplay

>tact on

Never go full retard
>>
>>275315831
And what form then would not be compromised by the fact that it's ultimately random, or at least in part undermined by its randomness?
>>
>>275316293
>Dark Messiah's melee combat is garbage.
Do you even have anything to compare it to other than DS? Multiplayer was great too in DM, shame it's rock solid dead.
>>
>>275316293
>Souls games lack any (intended) physics/environment manipulation.
That's just false.
>>
>>275309260
>ctrl +f zeno clash
no results
Fuck you guys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BViNP9qpCB4
>>
>>275316643
Thats the funny thing about complexity, it doesn't mean complex gameplay.

Take Dorf Fort, the combat calculations couldn't be more complex and realistic. In the end though, its just clicking a single button.

MnB is the same, its just mashing with some nuances and guess work. its not much different then Dark souls in that regard, just much less polished in the actual reality of it.

because I don't care how good you think you are, you can't judge distance well enough with MnBs camera so the extra inch of range from the different horizontal strikes to make a difference.
>>
Morrowind is just CoD with swords with a random number generator.

Imagine how lame CoD would be if each bullet did a skill check to see if your attack hit the target even if you obviously headshot your enemy.
Not only that it'll do a second check to see if you "skill" is high enough compared to your enemy's defense skills so even if the enemy didn't "dodge" your attack, you still only do .00003 damage in a direct headshot.

Morrowind is the definition of a FPS with artificial difficulty disguised as "RPG elements"
>>
>>275316689
In single player, it doesn't have to be any more random than how another player would play.
In multiplayer it wouldn't be random anyways.
>>
>>275312531
That's not a bait, nigger. Unless you abuse the evade system rolling everywhere like a moron (which is a obvious gamedesign flaw, we agree, but that's not the point), TW2 have pretty based combat. You need to plan ahead, time your attack, your parry, your counter-attack, manage your stamina, placement. You have to plan your potion and traps before the fight, you have to use your side weapons such as knife and bombs.

The arena test is actually quite challenging because you're attacked from everywhere and need to be efficient at every aspect of the fight and think fast, chose what spell is best and when to use what skill. It's pretty great.

But it's ruined completely if you roll around like a retard.
>>
>>275317058
Not really an RPG, is it?
>>
>>275317067
>because I don't care how good you think you are, you can't judge distance well enough with MnBs camera so the extra inch of range from the different horizontal strikes to make a difference.
It's like you never aim for head when you swing.
>>
>>275317193
Ahahahahahaha
>>
>>275317067
Shit player spotted, I bet you are only complaining after getting destroyed in multiplayer.

top kek
>>
>>275317058
Oh god that was horrible
>>
>>275309260
Temple of Elemental Evil has the best WRPG combat, and Grandia the best JRPG combat.

>muh action combat
You are the cancer killing RPGs.
>>
>>275317193

>says rolling is not part of combat
>every developer gameplay video has character rolling around like a retard

nope combat was designed to be retarded.
>>
>>275317169
>In single player, it doesn't have to be any more random than how another player would play.
Then it's a shit RPG.
>>
>>275317272
>claims to enjoy complex combat systems
>suggests swinging for the head and nothing else

I bet you spam fireballs in fighting games too scrub. How predictable.

You are aware mindgames doesn't make mnB complex, since every game of the style has the same mindgames.
>>
>>275316051
How do you not get dizzy playing this game? Jesus christ.
>>
>>275317398
TOEE is a glorified SRPG with crap balance. Grandia combat is boring garbage with an attack cancelling gimmick.
>>
>thinking RPG combat has to have RNG
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>>275316293
Overrated post.
>>
>>275317614
>balance
>single-player game

Like I said, cancer.
>>
>>275311704
*Severance: Blade of Darkness
>>
>>275317531
>suggests swinging for the head and nothing else
That's not what I said though. I suggested that you don't purposefully do it even if you'd get the opening to do it because judging from your attitude you play by spamming lmb near enemies.
Also, mind games have nothing to do with it it but in this sort of game where each action changes the situation they're obviously relevant and need to be mastered.
>>
>>275317749
I don't think you really know what you want from RPG combat then.
>>
>>275316293
I agree, but the contrarian Dark Messiah hipsters will rabidly defend their game in lieu of evidence that it's anything else than a kicking simulator.
I don't agree with Souls combat though, it's pretty boring.
>>
condemned, overgrowth, medevil,chivalry,
>>
File: 460.gif (1MB, 320x240px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
460.gif
1MB, 320x240px
playing RPGs for actiony combat is like playing arcade racing games for deep story
just get Virtua Fighter 5 if you want top tier reactional gameplay you massive faggot
>>
>>275317907
>chivalry

Get out
>>
>>275317560
Why would you? The FOV is high enough that you can easily see what's going on around you even if the game requires a lot of mouse swinging.
>>
>>275317827
>mind games have nothing to do with it
>where each action changes the situation

You are the definition of retarded,
>>
>>275316234
where can i find those 2?
Thread posts: 144
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