Can we talk about this?

Because despite a great cast and mostly great production, British Sherlock was written by fucking idiots who thought they were geniuses. S2 to 3 is one of the worst quality drops ever.

>>87757369
Because Moffat is british

>>87757369
I have not watch Elementary but Sherlock jumped a different and more deadly species of shark every episode after S2 to the point of jumping fricking sharks with fricking lasers in their heads.

Elementary just smells like your typical procedural with unresolved sexual tension that then gets solved when the ratings start to go down, like Bones or Castle.

>asian woman is some helpless assistant to a white guy

shit trope

Both of them had a pretty shitty year. Elem had too much procedural and no season arc while Sherlock was the opposite. Too much drama and few detective work.

>>87757369
>Moffat
that is why
fucke up 2 British classic because they have to be 2 deep for you with over arching story lines that lead to nothing, instead of short stories that are connected by the charters.

>>87757454
>few detective work.
That's an understatement
There hasn't been a mystery solved in over a season

>US
ugly chink
>UK
ugly gay shit

>>87757454
>Elem had too much procedural and no season arc
That's actually more in keeping with the style of the original Doyle stories. Holmes was always about self-contained procedurals.

>>87757369
Miller's Sherlock is just leagues better than Cumberbatch's autist supreme.

>>87757369
Ruining one one of literature's greatest bromances for diversity. I can't support that.

>>87757609
>Ruining one one
Someone call maintenance. This bot is broken.

>>87757397
What about S3 to 4?

>>87757444
>Sherlock jumped a different and more deadly species of shark every episode

This, basically. It was almost impressive how they kept getting further up their own asses.

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>>87757369
They're both shit compared to pic related

>>87757444
idk S4 was shit but nothing was more 'Shark-
Jumpy' than when the murderer was revealed to be a group of women in pink KKK uniforms, and Sherlock letting them all off the hook because women are oppressed by men (which was then criticised for mansplaining lmao) . AND it was all a dream, that was meant to figure out how Moriarty survived - but all it reavealed was that Moriarty didn't survive, making the entire episode totally pointless.

>>87757538
>lucy liu is ugly

whoa there fagmotron

Is Elementary worth watching?

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This is the definitive best Sherlock Holmes

seeing that makes you hum the theme in your head don't it

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The old Russian version was better than both

>>87757965
Lucy Liu is a dog, very ugly and very unattractive -Martin Freeman
KEK

>>87758346
Slavlock Holmes.

>>87758419
Seriously though

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Sherlock_Holmes_and_Dr._Watson

>>87757444
>with unresolved sexual tension
But that's the best part of Elementary you fool, there's zero sexual tension between Holmes and Watson. Sherlock has 500% more Holmes-Watson tension. I mean, I get where you're coming from, back when Elementary was first revealed I thought for sure it'd be a shitty American procedural knock-off with sexual tension and no character progression. But it quickly proved me wrong as soon as I watched some of it.

Elementary also handles the addiction angle a million times better than Sherlock.

>>87758278
It's worth watching just for the fact that pretty much every episode shows off Lucy Liu's legs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkoGBOs5ecM

One of you have that picture explaining how Sherlock faked his death with Falkor, right?

>>87758334
>humming
>not singing
SHERLOCK HOLMES IN THE 22ND CENTURY
SHERLOCK HOLMES IN THE 22ND CENTURY

>>87758562
He doesn't get to fuck Lucy?
What a fag.

>>87758795
He got cucked by his own brother.

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>>87757369
Both are fucking shit. Peter Cushing is the only Sherlock for me.

>>87758730

I like this guys videos but he's a cuck and a faggot so I disliked this video and reported your post :^)

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>>87758334
nah

>>87757447
She isn't. She becomes an important part in the show in that she is actually capable of handling cases by herself just that Sherlock is the smarter guy with better powers of observation.

Moriarty homolusts for her even.

>>87758795
He fucks prostitutes whenever he feels like sex, because he's afraid of getting involved with people on an emotional level and relying on them, which ties into his addiction problems as well.
Lucy walks in on one or two hookers hanging around the place after their "sessions" quite frequently.

>>87757369
>americans still have to get in superior british actors to make their terrible shit even barely watchable

lmao, bet you didn't even know he was british either you're that fucking retarded.

>>87758911
Go to bed, Moffat. Go find another cultural icon to ruin.

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Daily reminder

Elementary does a good job of being a modern-day version of Sherlock Holmes. Comfy, well-played mysteries.

BBC's Sherlock is a wildly inconsistent series of TV movies with a Sherlockian main character. Some of it is great, much of it is good, *too* much of it is truly awful.

I vastly prefer Elementary tbqh. In Elementary the mysteries actually have logically deduced answers.

I forgot about Elementary after finishing S2.
Is it worth picking back up? I remember getting kind of bored of it.

>>87759089

It gets marginally better but it's still basically boring.

>>87759089
Like >>87759033 said, it's comfy. It's more self-contained episodes than a seasonal arc so if you prefer the more GoT/HoC/TWD/ST/etc. format of a lot of modern shows, it probably won't be for you.

I think that's what fooled so many BBC Sherlock fans for so long though, thinking they were in for a big mystery web that would eventually be unravelled.

Here's a good example of the insane way Moffat goes to write scenes in Sherlock compared to Elementary.
In Elementary Sherlock has multiple screens on a wall he uses when he has to look though hours of different camera-footage at once or video-chat with different experts he knows across the country. This is something that people don't have in their homes so it looks special on tv, and it makes for easy and good-looking videochat scenes that make total sense each time they happen.

Sherlock on the other hand had that completely retarded scene where Sherlock is interviewing like ten different people, and he does it by chatting with each one on a separate laptop he's picked up from somewhere and spaced around the room, and when he has no more questions to ask one of them he closes the laptop. All because either Moffat really wanted that "twist" where it turns out he's not actually interviewing them face to face or because he thought it was a good-looking way to show how Sherlock is interviewing multiple people on a computer. It's a fucking ludicrous set-up that just makes you laugh, and then it never happens again because Moffat just wanted to show off in that one scene. Because his characters don't have routines they adhere to, they just act and feel whatever for what the scene needs to be special.

>>87759284
>"THERE'S A HEAD IN THE FRIDGE!"

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Threadly reminder.

>>87757369
I feel both of these shows lack something important.

Modern renditions of Holmes should be at least in part mysteries to be solved.

Both this shows fail to give the viewer the pieces of the puzzle required to come to a conclusion on their own. Watching arrogant individuals make a deduction and realize sometimes they are fallible or have too few facts, is indeed less rewarding than doing it your self while immersed.

>>87757369
Sherlock actually evolves as a character in Elementary and isn't a snide wizard 24/7.

>>87757717
THIS. He is the BEST SHERLOCK in the history of SHERLOCKS

>>87759978
Elementary actually does provide that though.

>>87761215
Yeah, if anything it's sometimes way too easy to guess ahead, I feel.

I'll watch Elementary, but only if there is some decent footshots of Lucy.

>>87757369
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UeXRshcJEI
Is this correct?

>>87757717

You're right but Brett will fade away because people don't like to watch old things.

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HOW DID HE DO IT

>>87762637
The building that wasn't that high somehow was tall enough so Sherlock could be rescued mid air while simultaneously dropping a similar corpse from the place of rescue.

>>87762637
The reveal for how this was done was really the first real indicator that the series was going to escalate into total shit

>>87758419
He was knighted for this role.

>>87758449

>m.

kill yourself retard.

>>87757369

because juicy liu

>>87762746
>The reveal for how this was done
They revealed nothing though

>>87762637
FALKOR

>>87761427
most TV shows are like that

I used to watch a lot of Midsomer Murders growing up, but those have gotten so formulaic that you can pick the killer just by finding the only person relevant to the plot but otherwise innocuous

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>

>>87757369
The British show cast some reptilian mutant as main character.
It breaks the immersion.

>>87757369
The best Sherlock adaptation was made in America too. Even if it went on too long House was better than any Sherlock based show.

Honestly I think Sherlock works best as a procedural. That's why American versions will always be better. Brits have this obsession with making movies for TV and calling them TV shows. This is also why US Office was better. If the characters are fun you want to spend time with them not race head first into the conclusion of their arcs in 6 episodes.

TV is about familiarity cinema is about being blown away. You sit in a familiar environment, eating familiar food with familiar people and watch TV. You go out to watch a movie to have a mini adventure. Pay money, eat unfamiliar food, sit alongside strangers. The content on these screens should reflect this.

I hate this current so called golden age of TV where people stay in and watch TV shows to be "blown away"

>>87763421
US Office is funnier, not better

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Who /mindpalace/ here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FSKTndbwVo

>>87763229
Or it's just the guy who immediately helps the cops with anything they want, rather than lawyering up automatically.

>>87763279
I can't believe how many people at this shit up

>>87763458
i actually tried this before, it's pretty useful for remembering very specific things (i.e. the population of New Delhi)

>>87763545
what, you associate a memory to something visual?

most people do that

>>87763545
surely the editing time makes it not useful?

>>87763456
Funnier is better for a comedy. It also does drama better. Is the story as tightly written and characters as believable as UK office? No. But like I said, on TV I just want fun characters that you spend time with and funny or exciting capers with medium stakes.

>>87757717
All live-action Sherlocks are garbage compared to the BEST SHERLOCK

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rYuFHLezUyo

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A Holmes thread, sweet
Does anybody else liked this one?

Fuck Ian was great, if you haven't seen this, 99% of the time you forget he was Gandalf and Magneto. There is a few scene you even forget he is a fucking known actor at all. Just a frail old man.

>>87762541
I don't know about that. Some still say Basil Rathbone is the best Sherlock.

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nobody's seen Шepлoк Хoлмc?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzwBIvVwuOg

>>87763421
>I hate this current so called golden age of TV
It's is not a golden age for TV if the majority is watching it on internet is it?

>>87764806
Is this
>>87758449
?

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Everything pales compared to the Russian Sherlock Holmes. Full of class, excellent performances, humor and real mystery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhujgY6m0RQ

>>87764984
No. It's >>87765037

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>>87765088
what a

>>87757369
While the stories are typical cop/assistant procedural template stuff, the characters and chemistry in the show make Elementary pretty good.

The Cucumberbatch show is basically low tier Dr Who episodes.

Because British people are genuinely stupid, it's a common misconception to associate an english accent as of one pertaining to an intellectual.

Their shows are so bad they need to spoonfeed the information to the audience because they are to stupid to understand the reasoning behind a plot or an event.

>actual motherfucking brits
modern brits, late 1800s britain more resembles modern america than modern britain

>>87764589
Saw the opening 30 minutes? Couldn't into it and it was just too depressing so turned it off.

Like you said frail old man. I don't want to watch that or think about it.

>>87758278
It's a comfy, relaxing show with likeable characters and decent mysteries. If you don't watch it, you're not missing much. If you watch it, your life becomes a little less boring for a while.

>>87758346

Ah, the memories.

Whenever it ran back in soviet kazachstan (wasn't often) it was family kino tiem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhujgY6m0RQ

time to nostalgia hard.

I would have liked Elementary if it had lead with a small multi-episode arc instead of one offs.

Also if they writers were smart enough to do the obvious thing and make it so that there was a previous Watson (John Watson) in Britain who died. Instead of 'muh Irene'.

So Mycroft got Sherlock another Watson when he fell apart. Looking for medically trained people named 'J. Watson' in a close enough position, and stumbled upon Joan.

>>87759792
i came into this thread looking for this and here it is

>>87765852
Glad I delivered.

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>>87757369
Since she's dead in GoT, can we expect to see more of Moriarty in the future?

>>87766058
yep

>>87765783
that sounds kinda fucked up, I like it.

>>87766233
did you reply to your own post, m8

>>87766058
>Holmes has to decide between Moriarty and his father as they fight over who gets to rule the world
Gee willickers.

>>87762862
THIS

The BBC hates actual Brits, that's why.

>>87757369
>The Chad Dick
vs
>The Virgin Inspector.

writing>manipulative writing

>>87768042
This, this, this and this.
Sherlock was defeated by its own smarmy writing. It was almost like a parody of Death Note in the last couple seasons. They got so busy writing smart characters that they forgot to actually write smartly themselves.

>>87758992
Please no. Season 3 was an absolute disaster.

>>87759792
>make a shitpost about SHERLOCK and nitpick as much as possible to rile up fans.
>Season 3 is literally this

>>87757369
Both shows were my first formal introduction to the character of Holmes, and I liked both takes on it. I got enough references to original stuff, despite having read it, to really enjoy it.
I watched Sherlock second, and liked it a lot more from the first two fantastic seasons. Then it went full retard. Elementary was a very gradual decline that started very early. The only character in that show that is possible to give a crap about is Holmes himself, but as they turn him more human in each episode, he becomes more boring. And everything is predictable.
Probably gonna keep watching both for now.

>>87762746
>>87762915
after deliberately hyping up the mystery they basically tell the viewers "it doesnt matter lol stop obsessing about it"

>>87765258
were not stupid u cunt

>>87768305
>but as they turn him more human in each episode, he becomes more boring
season 5 cliffhanger is very interesting though. very curious to see where it will go.

>>87757369
Because it was written more as a police procedural with a clever main character. Whereas Sherlock was written as a urban fantasy YA one-shot with a wizard as the main character.

Elementary is comfy as fuck. Sherlock gives me aneurysms.

>>87757369
I'm just happy that Asa Akira was able to break into the mainstream

>>87765463
>too depressing
Fucking this, Liked what i saw though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp02ubGuTIU

>>87758899
It's not just hookers. Holmes has a regular procession of "sex buddies" that Watson is so ised to she actually knows when to make them coffee and call them cabs. It's laughed off in the show by Holmes as being necessary to "feed his body's urges" so he can devote his mind to wotking on cases.

There's absolutely zero romantic attraction between holmes and watson. Indeed holmes has on many times tried to get watson to go on fuck dates just to destress, but she won't. She tried to form proper relationships until holmes proved she's actually a serial monogamist. She can't settle down with anyone for too long as she gets bored and sabotages the relationship to get out of it.

Basically watson is holmes without the obvious addiction. That's why they click so well.

Oh, and female Moriarty was a genius idea. Fite me.

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>>87757369

That is because you need an american show with a british guy as an allegory to free up room for the show to do what it wants while still hitting all the same notes.

>>87758278
I don't watch much television and I can sit down to an episode of Elementary and not feel like it is a waste of time.

>>87758867
How the fuck did they manage to lose most of the episodes Cushing was in?

>>87759792
There was an episode of Elementary where Sherlock was investigating a hole dug in a basement, and he had a theory that the person was digging to reach the electrical grid or something, so he looked it up on his phone and lo and behold, the house was right over the electrical grid, and I remember thinking "If this was 'Sherlock' Sherlock would just magically know where the entire electrical grid is because bullshit".

>>87764589
This was kino. Any other comfy movies like this?

>>87765037
Where can I find a good torrent of this

IMO, Moriarty should generally not be one of the main focuses of a Holmes show. For one, it tends to make the show too much like capeshit, with a superhero and a supervillain. Yes, Moriarty is basically a supervillain even in the original stories... but he only really appears in one or two of them, and is hinted at as potentially lurking in the background in a few others. That is, I think, his best role. I think all too often, people who make Holmes adaptations use Moriarty as a crutch in order to avoid having to come up with clever detective stories.

Time to eat yoгr oats, anon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnyQeOhHbtM

Elementary is incredibly comfy. Just started season 4 and Sherlock's father seems to be a fun dude. I liked Mycroft quite a lot too. I do hope we'll get more Moriarty soon, she has been notably absent for a while.

It's also funny whenever the manlet detective tries to look tough. Like in one episode he had these baller sunglasses and little buddy was trying so hard to look cool in them.

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Sherlock Holmes is for manchildren who want to vicariously live the life of a detective with superhuman deductive capabilities.

Agatha Christie novels are for the enlightened adult, where all the mysteries are unwrapped through pure logic.

>>87771777
>superhuman deductive capabilities
>unwrapped through pure logic
And the difference is... what, exactly?

>>87766058
She's still alive? I thought she suicided after Sherlock rejected her or something like that.

>>87769889
>Oh, and female Moriarty was a genius idea. Fite me.
I didn't have an issue until a friend told me that it was a little unrealistic that she'd built up such an extensive criminal empire over a short period. It shouldn't have broken my suspension of disbelief but it did and I couldn't stay into the show.

She's a good actress though.

>>87771627
I actually dislike Elementary's Moriarty, I just never thought it clicked. I like their versions of Mycroft and Morland, though.

I think the big difference is that Elementary's Sherlock is actually a likable person. He can be an ass sometimes, but he still supports his friends and tries to be a better person. Cumberbatch's Sherlock is just insufferable and should be buried in a ditch somewhere.

>>87771777
>Agatha Christie novels are for the enlightened adult, who want to vicariously live the life of a fat Belgian with superhuman deductive capabilities or an old spinster with superhuman deductive capabilities

>>87771913
She's alive but I don't think Natalie Dormer is going to come back to the show. The character is in some CIA prison somewhere.

>>87757397
t. hasn't watched the show. The drop in quality from season 3 to 4 is the worst I have ever seen from a show.

>>87758654
Sold.

>>87771861
>>87771971
Poirot and Marple solve murders exclusively on evidence present to the reader and how they logically link up with the culprit.
Sherlock Holmes solves murders by catching a microscopic glimpse of something while turning around, only to reveal it at the conclusion.

>>87772075
Hmm... you have a point.

>>87772075
Poirot and Marple don't ass-pull as much as Holmes does, but they do ass-pull sometimes when they make their deductions based on "knowledge of human nature", which is just vague and ambiguous enough to let them bridge any gap in logic.

I still haven't watched season 3. what happened?

>>87772175
Season 3 is not super-terrible, mostly because it has some good actors like Lars Mikkelsen as Charles Magnussen. Season 4 is just absolutely terrible garbage, the only good point was the guy who played Culverton Smith, and he wasn't enough to redeem it from the trainwreck of "Sherlock and Mycroft have a secret sister! She's much smarter than both of them put together, and she's EVIL!"

>>87772175
i mean season 4. can't keep track of these things

>watch the third episode of Sherlock
>never felt like watching anymore of it
>have seen four seasons of Elementary

>>87772030
Seasons 1 and 2 were all between 9/10 and 10/10, seasons 3 and 4 were all 0/10 and your opinion is worthless if you disagree.

>>87757717
This thread should have died here. Why are you motherfuckers still discussing this shit?

>>87757369
The Cumberbatch Sherlock is a huge prick.

Book Sherlock is kind of an asshole, but he'll still give other detectives credit and values Watson's opinion.

>Book Sherlock
>What do you think of the case, Watson?
>Watson makes logical argument and deduction
>hmm, I'll take that into consideration

>Cumberbatch Sherlock
>What do you think of the case, Watson?
>Watson makes logical argument and deduction
>Uh huh, pretty good, except it's all fucking wrong Watson you goddamn retard. Here's what REALLY happened.

>>87762915
Has this become a meme or are there still people who didn't understand it? It's a show for dummies so I find that hard to believe.

>>87764589
About as good as it gets for a Holmes story. I absolutely loved this.
I guess if you're one of the shits that likes the crappy modern takes on the story, it's not for you.
If you watch the latest BBC version, the R.D.Jr or Elementary version. None of them are even anywhere near what Sherlock is. Not at all.

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>>87771777
Caroline Graham is better

>>87772639
I hate how modern interpretations forget that originally Sherlock, for all his dickish behavior, was still a professional.

>>87773033
I've never seen a Sherlock interpretation that matches the books. The Jeremy Brett one comes closest but it still wide of the mark.
He's a total autist that won't believe anything unless he can prove it himself. Even scientifically.

He refuses to believe Waston that the Earth orbits the sun because he lacks in astronomical knowledge. He even has no interest in proving him wrong because he doesn't care.

Total victorian sperglord, but that's why I love him

Isn't Moriarty in Elementary played by Smirkfu?
I know that's 10000000% better than that faggy fuck who played in Sherlock.

>>87773292
They mention this in Sherlock Season 1 where they visit an observatory. He mentions he doesn't know what the planets are named and Watson derides him for this. Then he rants about how he doesn't need to know to solve crimes and that it's irrelevant. And something normal people know and care about.

It's close but they still include the spiteful side in to it.

>>87773404
Yes.

Sometimes I wish we had live threads from Elementary.

when is elementary back on?

>>87773467
They did?
I still wonder how that Holmes would be able to live in the modern world. Computers, T.V, Radio, DNA testing it would all be beyond him.

He would have no way of understanding it all by his own experiments. Modern achievements like that can only be done by hundreds of people. Long gone are the days of single inventors. That's why I think modern Holmes doesn't work unless totally re-written as a character.

>>87757397
The episode about the hounds of baskerville was pretty good, but you're right about the rest of the episodes.

>>87759978
The books didn't do that either. It's been a while since I read them but I remember that more often than not the solution to the puzzle was a total asspull, or at least impossible to deduct with the information given.

>>87773766
They try early on (Series 1) to preserve the character by showing him conduct experiments to "see what would happen" - flogging a corpse for example but as the show goes on they forget he does this or that he even solves crime.

>I still wonder how that Holmes would be able to live in the modern world. Computers, T.V, Radio, DNA testing it would all be beyond him.

They sacrifice that part of him and instead have him use it to his advantage. Not completely modern but certainly uses websites and phones to get information.

>>87757397
I thought Sherlock was solid until S2 finale. They shouldn't have killed Moriarty off if they wanted to continue.

>>87764589
way too old for sherlock

>>87758992
You could clearly tell that even the writers were not really fond of her so they threw Jim back in the mix just so that the S4 finale would get slightly more bearable.

>>87774144
I hope you're joking. Seriously.

I got to do science consulting for Elementary this week. Was pretty cool.

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>>87758278
it's interesting imo, and a lot of the nitbits of information presented in the show is kinda fascinating to look up afterwards, see pic related

some of the mysteries are interesting as well, the elevator murder episode comes to mind

later seasons get a fair bit of drama and stuff which is kinda hit and miss, and end up being too much at times if you are not into such stuff

gotta also say the intro to the show is very well done and memorable

>>87774435
greentext. also, when will it be back on?

>>87774453
Think he was talking bout Elementary there, bud.

>>87758278
No, that's all there is to say. It's shit, but on this thread you'll mostly find hardcore fans who love it.

If you think you'd be hardcore....go for it.

>>87774677
No idea. They're writing episodes now. They needed to talk to a geologist to make sure their science wasn't completely bullshit, and someone on staff knew me.

I might get a credit, which would be neat.

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>characters that ruined a season

>>87774887
a couple months ago another anon said that he guest starred in a season 4 episode. a lot of nobodies in the show.
I'll look out for the geology related episode and think of you when I see it.

>>87775070
It involves erosion in a river!

>>87773766
That's why House is the best modern SH adaptation. SH as detective in 2017 is simply too implausible to make a good show of.

Sherlock is piss, season 4 was laughably bad and Moffat is barely smart enough to be an English teacher but he thinks he's some sort of 21st century Shakespeare.

But don't get it twisted ameribongs, elementary is a cucked piece of procedural shit, and if you think otherwise, you are a product of ameriburger thinking

>>87758278
If you just need some comfy procedural to watch while eating or unwinding or whatever go for it. Don't expect anything great though.

>>87775528
Is it good enough to have on in the background while playing games?

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66KB, 688x496px

>>87757369
Soviet Sherlock best in world
All other Holmeses are made for little girls.