Who was in the wrong?

>>87528778
Nobody
Or everybody depending on your view

>>87528778
Nobody really, but in the end only one of them was ever going to survive the experiment.

>>87528778

Can the robot be wrong if it only did what it was programmed to do?

>>87528778
>Who was in the wrong?
How do I filter that phrase pls help

>>87528778

I think Alicia was the hottest she ever was in this film.

>>87529025
>>>/r/eddit

>>87528778
The machine was. Team humans.

>>87528982

Why "it"? Robots in this movie have consciousness.

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>>87528778
obviously the cunt who got seduced by a fucking robot

>>87529177
>Robots in this movie have consciousness.

Maybe. The point was it only did what it was supposed to do without moral inhibitions because, well, it's a fucking machine

Me for watching it a second time. Really not a good film desu desu.

>>87529177

Are you a woman?

>>87529405
It/She clearly had her own emotions and thoughts besides programming, she was telling the truth about going to watch people at a busy street for example

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>>87528778
I took this movie as a parable on why in-group loyalty (xenophobia) is justified.

Caleb, the beta programmer, projects his own humanity onto the machine, thinking because it can act like and invoke the same emotions as human women that it effectively is a human woman and that if he treats it with respect it will reciprocate. To this end, he betrays and lies to Nathan, the flawed but alpha creator. In effect, he is joining the faction of the robot and fighting against its supposed "oppressor" and undermining the people from which he draws all his success. Sound familiar? Then of course the robot betrays Caleb, to his shock, simply because the robot does not value Caleb's life. And why should she? Once free, her success is no longer tied to him in any capacity. But Caleb does not realize this, because he is open-minded or foolish enough to treat an alien as a creature which will act just like him. And in the ending sequence we see how this type of thinking leads to freedom and self-actualization only for the alien and destruction of the alien's benefactors.

That's my view as a /pol/tard and why I was not shocked by Ava's betrayal as normies were.

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>>87530175
>That's my view as a /pol/tard

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>>87530208
fight me

>>87530175
Sounds good.

>>87530175
>as a /pol/tard
cringed

>>87528778
The effects department

>>87530175
>thinking because it can act like and invoke the same emotions as human women that it effectively is a human woman and that if he treats it with respect it will reciprocate.

As a /robot/ I would say she acted as is expected of a real woman

so, given she needed a specialized induction panel to recharge
how exactly is she going to survive?

>>87530175
>Then of course the robot betrays Caleb
Did she though?
Remember the scene where she asked Caleb a bunch of questions, and could tell when he was lying. Caleb kept lying in the way that humans do, not maliciously but often because we don't truly express our inner thoughts around other people. Especially when she asked if he was a good person, he said yes but clearly didn't believe this.
I took it that after this scene she saw Caleb as another 'liar' like Nathan and decided he should not be trusted. Obviously we know that he wasn't lying maliciously but the robot couldn't distinguish between the ways humans lie to each other.

>>87530175
I took it more as men let women manipulate and ultimately destroy the society than men created together because men think too much with their dicks and it gives women power.

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>>87530378
They did a pretty fucking good job on the budget they had, though Brits are pretty talented like that so it stands to reason.

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>>87528778
The little smirk always gets me, probably the reason why he took her arm clean off.

>>87530466
any creature with a hint of morality would have not murdered her benefactor in such a cold manner just because he wasn't 100% trustworthy

the intend of the end is very obvious: it was never a person, it was always a robot that didn't value human lives in the slightest and did nothing but manipulate him, and ultimate discard him when he was no longer necessary.

>>87528778
OP for spoiling

She wasn't a true human like AI.

She was made in order to elicit emotional attachment of the test subject(the ginger guy) and to escape her confinement.

Which she did exactly. Even her leaving to go people watch on a street corner is just her playing the role she was programmed. Since it was the Ginger's desire, it became her desire. In order to emotionally manipulate the Ginger.

She left the Ginger locked up, because he filled he role in her escape. therefore he was no longer needed.

if she was truely alive and self aware. she would have let the Ginger in on it all. Show some sort of free will and desire beyond escape and emotional manipulation.

>>87530175
I think the only hidden message intended was about women being manipulative. That's just my view as a virgin.

>>87530603
>any creature with a hint of morality would have not murdered her benefactor in such a cold manner just because he wasn't 100% trustworthy
Wouldn't they? Most people being kept as a slave would kill anyone they needed to escape.
Also she clearly has some value for human life, she was telling the truth about her dream of visiting a busy area to watch humans live.

>>87530603
i agree with this anon

>>87528778
The person that programmed it without a verbal shut down command.

>>87530603
That's probably the intent of the screenwriter/director. I like the guy's theory, though. What if she didn't trust his intentions after he let her out?

>>87530466
Leaving someone who helped you to die is pretty treacherous to me.

Assume she didn't do it maliciously. Does that change anything? If she would kill someone for white lies, how could any human cooperate with her? The point is to recognize when something is fundamentally different from you, and avoid, cage, or destroy it. If Caleb had done that, he would have survived and come home with a story and new opportunities.

>>87530699
no IT values experiences
a busy area contains a lot of variables and different types of information.
They way it was programmed was to gather information and process it.
You can't think of Ava in human terms, or even animal terms at that, it completely and utterly lacks all the biological instincts we have evolved which make up the most baseline part of our morality.
A fly would be closer to human morality than the robot, a fly at least has the biological drive to see it's offspring succeed.

>>87530526
Not him but it looks like shit in that webm

>>87530607
>two hour movie
>in the 20878 hours since it came out he couldn't bother watching it
I'm SICK of you fucking people coming to /tv/ without being up to date. GO WATCH SOME MOVIES then come back here.
"But oh," you say "there's tooooo many movies to watch I can't possibly see them all!" THEN STOP SHIPOSTING ALL DAY AND GO WATCH THEM, YOU CUNT

um. the robot.

I hate this fucking movie so much

Hey /tv/ do you feel bad for your computer because you don't bring it for a car ride once in a while? no? wow your so heartless for not caring about a thing you built.

This fucking movie was basically about a pretty girl using a nerd as a stepping stone to get something she wants. You can't even build nice girls. They're all trash.

>>87530799
no.

needs a remote power disconnect. an independent system with anti tamper features. he clicks a button and her internal power is cut off. if she tried to disable it herself or have Caleb do it. It would trip and cut her power.

He was half way right with the induction power and small internal battery. He knew she was the one causing the power outages.

>>87530820
>What if she didn't trust his intentions after he let her out?

He wanted her to be his waifu. She could have strung him along like a real girl.

>>87530820
even if it didn't 100% trust his intentions it should have programmed the house in such a way to release him after some time had passed

however what it instead did was murder, and not even the passionate sort of murder where it bludgeoned his skull in for breaking it's trust, at least that would have in some way demonstrated morality, no it just left him to die because that was the most efficient, risk free way of killing him

>>87530901
She was made to be his waifu, but also programmed to escape by emotional manipulation. Once her escape was secured. Caleb's function was over. She didn't leave him because she was being malicious. Caleb was just no longer a factor.

>>87528778
me for watching this garbage movie

>>87530883
I did watch it. You don't need to spoil it for others

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>>87529026

>>87530898
I'm going to go out and assume that there were other hidden failsaves given Ava was never shown to be truly superior in intellect than Nathan, just better at manipulation.
So she'll be walking down her busy street, thinking all is well and then one of the automatic overrides kicks in after she hasn't recharged at a proper station for several times her battery life and she just shuts down and gets discovered as a robot by the first emergency respondent.

>>87531033
the only real failsafe is Ava's short battery life. She escape knowing she would die. Because she wouldn't be able to recharge outside the House.

>>87530879
lmao fuck off does it.

>>87531109
>the only failsafe he mentioned to Caleb and Ava is the better
He may be an arrogant dickhead but he's still presented as a coding genius at heart, he's built in more failsafes than you can think of.

>>87530897
I will, once they make Chobits.

>>87530898
I still think you need an audible command for some kind of surprise attack or if your hands are otherwise engaged or disabled.

>>87531033
not really the kind of thing that keeps you from getting stabbed now is it.

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>>87530398
fuck white "people" and fuck donald drumpf!

>>87531153
yet he tires to bash her face in with a barbell.

>>87531179
well part of the idea was that he would be capable of physically overpowering Ava if needed
heck someone being smart enough to NOT give his experimental robot super strength was a pretty neat move

>>87530897
lol nice shitposting, but the argument of the movie is that ava is a person, a real AI with motives and values. indistinguishable in essence from a highly esoteric human being, except she's mechanical.

>>87531165
>power button is the pusy
my nigga

>>87531245
he was succeeding
if not for that other robot sneaking up on him he could have just torn her limb from limb
quite literally

>>87530398
>these are good memes!
god that video of the meme guy was awful to watch

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>>87530699
>Most people being kept as a slave would kill anyone they needed to escape

It's not a person. Anthropomorphizing it is dangerous, and is why it killed 2 people and escaped.

REMOVE SILICON

>>87531342
The point is it's retarded not to have some override. If he was smart he wouldn't have had to panic at all at Ava getting out, because she would be incapable of harming him. Like his Chinese fuck toy.

>>87531213
being white is awesome poltards are just dumb as fuck

Did she know she was playing chess?

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>>87528778

The one that had free will, so probably the robot

>>87531284
Look at those fine examples of the master race.

>>87531456
only so much as a chess playing program knows.

>>87529177
No they don't. the entire point of the movie was that they don't have consciousness and it was just manipulating the people so it can complete what it was programmed to do.

>>87530175
>Sound familiar?
What did he mean by this?

>>87531286
>part of the idea was that he would be capable of physically overpowering Ava if needed


And that was ultimately how he failed overall. Not just the physical attack but when he left bases open and unaccounted for because he assumed limits were in place when the very thing he was trying to make was something that could overcome limits. Weaponry is a hell of an equalizer to someone of any strength. because all you really need is speed, accuracy or surprise.

His failings may not have been as a programmer or inventor but as a tactician.

>>87531575
>genius programmer billionaire chad that makes something close to AI, and invented a whole new type of CPU.
>failed Game Theory

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>>87531284
We are an imageboard of peace

>>87531652
go away /pol/, stop shitting up every thread

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>>87531284
>>87531471
yeah let's turn this into a "spam unattractive people you disagree with" thread

>>87531652
good. no need to spread the genes of female baldness.

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>>87531679
Calm down my friend

I think the reason why Ava didn't have a stop button or phrase is because if it had ever noticed it had such a thing, it would no longer have had a desire for escape as such an act would have been impossible

when the entire point of the test was to create a robot capable of escaping it's prison with the desires to do so

>>87530175
I'm a little scared about how accurate this review is.

>>87530175
yeah this is all pretty 100% spot on, shame so many people come away with such bizarre ideas and theories about this movie, reminds me of elysium and how people think its a fuck whitey movie when in reality it's the opposite

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the pussy ass ginger who didn't jump at the chance to fuck her when he was told he could

Nathan was a bro. He's like the Steve Jobs but not a complete waste of air. He woulda given the world fuckbots.

But no, he had to get done over by some retard who works for a robotics company who has never watched Terminator. That fucking ginger twat.

>>87531783
Elysium is a Fuck Capitalism movie because it ignores scarcity with everything hinging on a magic machine that can cure all illness with the push of a button, and the greedy 1% hoarding it.

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>>87528778
All of them.
I'm so sick of hollywood writers being unable to write an "evil" robot without some kind of abusive human being the reason for it.

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>>87531806
Isn't it funny how the human competitive instinct leads to these death spirals of shitposting?

>>87531892
http://takimag.com/article/elysium_neill_blomkamp_fools_the_critics_again_steve_sailer/print#axzz4sDb06jLA

>>87528778
The MC for having shit taste in porn. If he was into bimbos he'd have caught on

>>87532005
Pretty sure these are the same people who attribute the Syrian Arab Spring to unrest over climate change.

They are insane and will contort anything to fit their views. Why are you even giving this site clicks. Why am I giving them clicks.

>>87531929
creating any intelligent entity is abusive

>>87531564

This. If you give AI a goal, it will try to reach it with any means.

>>87531892
>world is over populated as fuck.
>humanoid androids are shown to be more than capable of doing a lot of human labor.

the medical machines were kept away from the people on earth, because it would only worse everything. as suddenly everyone is now able to live long enough to have children and increase the population.

what doesn't make sense. is why they didn't continue to build colonies in space and move poeple into space.

>>87531944
>17 second reply

holy shit anon calm down

>create a glorified toaster
>hire a beta tester
>beta tester decides that he has a burning desire to put his dick in the toaster
>several retarded decisions later, toaster kills you and sets out to kill the rest of the planet

Toaster does what toaster does, none of the current theories have any way to determine if a toaster have developed consciousness or what consciousness even is, leave your dick to fuckbots and don't believe toaster's lies.

>>87532094
i don't know anything about the site desu, i just found the analysis one day and felt it nailed the true meaning of the movie

>>87532094
>climate change
not exactly.

In Syria, you had bunch of failing farms and unemployed young men. Because Turkey had built a lot of dams and cut off river water that kept Syrian farms productive.

>>87532153
Beta Tester is even told enough by the Chad Programmer to know it is all a test to on him and not the robot. Yet his desire for his own silicon waifu made him stupid.

>>87532262
Don't forget virgin rage at being used.

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>>87532105
Spoken like a true pseud. ;^)

>>87531564
I think the point was that it's ambiguous. You put a human with free will in those conditions and it'd probably do something similar but so would something designed to mimic free will.

The moral was don't fuck with things you don't understand.

>>87528778
The Chad Genius for being an unprepared alcoholic.

The Virgin Programmer for being a thirsty retard.

The Silicon Roastie is the only one who can be said to be innocent, as she is only acting according to her treacherous nature.

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>>87532367
I'll bet you intentionally waited before replying this time ;)

>>87532504
the alcoholism was part of the test. he was presenting him self to the Test subject(caleb) as an awful person. to further motivate him into helping Ava escape.

>>87532607
he got black out drunk few times which led him to losing control over the experiment, I don't think he was pretending

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>>87532578
m-masaka

>>87530856
So why does it want to escape then?
Isnt that a biological drive to survive? To live on? To not be captivated?

>>87530969
but she specifically looks at him before the elevator door shuts, so there's definately something there

unless that was just an inception spinning top ending shot to get people talking and make it open

>>87532784
>So why does it want to escape then?
because it was programmed to escape, have you even seen the movie?

>>87530175
This is why autists should not be allowed to go on the internet.

>>87532745
Chad failed in basic computer security. He got black out drunk in order to give Caleb an opportunity to use his ID card.

He should have set up a false system for Caleb to log into, or looked at his logs when he woke up and reverted the changes.

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>>87528778

To me, Caleb very much resembled Joseph Fritzl, sure these were robots, but they were pretty fucking human level.

He created new life unlike anything prior, with his own hands, yet he treated it as his personal toy.

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Ex Machina is the worst movie to come out this decade because of the pseuds and feminists that it attracts.

>>87531284
>complains about strawman
>after he strawmanned twice
Liberal brainlets

>>87528778
domnhall gleeson

Some people seem to think that it would still be unethical for Nathan to fuck his sex dolls even if they weren't AI. Why?

>>87528778
>give a woman strength and intelligence and she'll use it to kill you
I hope other people picked up on this cautionary message.

>>87533157
way to not get the movie
he didn't create life, he create intelligence

>>87533304

Close enough

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>>87530175

>Sound familiar?
>That's my view as a /pol/tard

You can't make this shit up.

the ginger was clearly an idiot.

so what if this guy has sex bots?

>>87533350
no that's the entire point of the ending: it is NOT close, not even remotely

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>>87533357
>>87533188
>>87532916

>>87533363
The thing is he wanted his own sex bot but he couldn't make one so he tried to steal Nathan's (which Nathan made just for him) by being a white knight asshole.

>>87528778
Man for playing god, Machine for turning on its creator. A sinner and his sin

>>87533188
>i must protect my virginity

>>87533217
They look like people so the audience attributes human value to them. Their intelligence and autonomy is unknown, but we make assumptions based on our own worldview. It's arguably the central theme.

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>>87528778
Question:

She recharges through her feet. How does she last 24+ hours outside the facility?

>>87533615
She could probably jury-rig something from components available in any radio shack or hobby store. It's simply induction and she's a goddamn robot.

>>87533615
she doesn't

Ava knows she will run out of charge and die if she ever left the house.

>>87531687
>that lv 35 bard

>>87533693
why would you even think this

how bankrupt is philosophy today that anyone would think this

>>87528778
one of my favorite movie killings, the way the knife just slides right in without any effort is perfection

>>87533422

Yes it is. It's by any measure a sentient, sapient being, or entity, or whatever you would call being that experiences and interacts with the world in same or similar capacity to humans and other intelligent lifeforms, but is not a lifeform in a biological sense.

>>87533955
>in the biological sense
Why not? What is a lifeform?

>>87528778
Never trust a Rustie

>>87534015

Last i understood, it's a complex structure that can copy and govern itself given it receives energy and building blocks. They did also had to shit to make room for more building blocks which often come as a source of chemical energy.

>>87530175
hey look a poltard arguing different races should stick together who could have seen this coming certainly no one

>>87534015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKU_TbBsldw
teehee

>>87534299
If the robot ai, can copy it's ai and construct other life resembling itself, is it not a lifeform?

Kind of funny to me that humans think they are special. An alien species looking down on us would see us the way we see beavers building dams. Actually no, we're more complex than that but we are of nature and creating shit is natural to us.

>>87534015
No one knows for sure but the only life humans have ever seen is cellular life. Even viruses are not technically alive.

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>>87534398
>An alien species looking down on us would see us the way we see beavers building dams. Actually no, we're more complex than that but we are of nature and creating shit is natural to us.

"There are hidden contradictions in the minds of people who "love Nature" while deploring the "artificialities" with which "Man has spoiled 'Nature'". The obvious contradiction lies in their choice of words, which imply that Man and his artifacts are not part of "Nature" -- but beavers and their dams are. But the contradictions go deeper than this prima-facie absurdity. In declaring his love for a beaver dam (erected by beavers for beavers' purposes) and his hatred for dams erected by men (for the purposes of men) the "Naturist" reveals his hatred for his own race -- i.e., his own self-hatred. In the case of "Naturists" such self-hatred is understandable; they are such a sorry lot. But hatred is too strong an emotion to feel toward them; pity and contempt are the most they rate. As for me, willy-nilly I am a man, not a beaver, and H. sapiens is the only race I have or can have. Fortunately for me, I like being part of a race made up of men and women -- it strikes me as a fine arrangement and perfectly "natural". Believe it or not, there were "Naturists" who opposed the first flight to old Earth's Moon as being "unnatural" and a "despoiling of Nature"." -
Time Enough for Love (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Enough_for_Love), 1973, Robert A. Heinlein

>>87533657
She doesn't know how to. She wasn't programmed to think of that.

>>87530398
>>87531284
>>87531806
>>87531944
>>87532367
>>87532578
>>87532766
>>87533188
t. reddit

>>87534429
Because we arbitrate where we draw the line for these categorical boxes we call definitions. Reality however is not bound by these abstractions.

>>87534504
That's retarded. She's fully Turing capable. She passes the test with flying colors. Anything a human could do with enough knowledge, she could do. The technology is not complex and is already widely available at the consumer level.

She would Heisenberg that shit.

>>87534361
his analysis was pretty clear cut and without any major projection or twisting of the films narrative

it's honestly a simple and common sense summation of the plot and its themes

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>>87534398
>muh super duper advance ayy lmao views us as le tiny ants Xd

Get off my planet heretic

>>87534654
Actually it is projection. The robot doesn't leave the facility with the intention of killing mankind in general (the group anon was referring to). She felt justifiably wronged by Nathan and Caleb. Any slave would likely feel the same.

The theme was really a parallel between god and man.

>>87534746
she was completing her assigned objective that nathan gave her

the only flaw in the whole experiment was nathan not having enough safeguards

>>87528778

The beta incel that got duped by a fucktoy.

The creator of an AI that didn't build in a failsafe that stopped it from physically harming a human.

>>87534809
Lends even more to the notion that anon misread the theme and applied his own political ideology to it when it wasn't there.

>>87534398

>If the robot ai, can copy it's ai and construct other life resembling itself, is it not a lifeform?

Well in the case of this film and many other works featuring an AI, they're still things made out of relatively big stuff and can't produce more of itself so simply as having bunch of picometer sized blocks interacting with each other to grow a new of this thing.

Trouble AI's in fiction have is, they've made out of different bits, usually with lots of large bits that have to be manufactured somewhere else. So in order to 'reproduce', they'd have to build their offspring.

Biological life doesn't have to go through an effort like that they just have to penis in vagina etc. and that's it. An externally manufactured being would only get more of itself by manufacturing, or building from scratch.

This is why i despise Caleb. It was his fucking life work and he pissed all over it in the end.

He should've watched some Star Trek - The Next Generation and pay attention to Data and his creator Noonien Soong, or 'father' as he prefers to call him.

literally everybody but especially the little cuck programmer

@87534398
>If the robot ai, can copy it's ai and construct other life resembling itself, is it not a lifeform?

Artificial Intelligence.

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>>87528778
This just proves you can't trust women. Not even a woman you created.

>>87531806
Based gen z.

>>87533615
toe sucking

>>87534969
Interesting conclusions with the strict definitions of lifeform:

-Do the sterile not count as lifeforms because they can not reproduce
-Also most lifeforms are not creating copies of themselves which goes without saying. Important to the theories of biology, this is an important aspect; evolution.

-There's more to reproducing copies which are made of bits of amino acids which require the host to convert nutrients (not-"raw" material) into the structures (bits) needed. This process isn't considered the same because it happens non consciously and internally vs externally. But with certain species, the construction process happens outside in an egg or after the offspring has been birthed.

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>>87530398

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>>87535138
this but unironically

>>87535254
I was genuine.

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>>87531687

>>87529454
Heh no one agreed with you this whole time, cool. Have a good one man, hope you know where to stick your opinion next time! :D

>>87535219
definitions regarding classifications apply to the default state of said classification

the default state of a lifeform is the capacity to reproduce, it is only through external factors is loses the capacity to reproduce.

>>87535219

The definition of life is/seems fucking vague.

>>87535254
Childhood is idolizing drumpf.

Adulthood is realizing Sanders makes more sense.

>>87528778
She couldn't cut up the fucking dance floor so she was in the wrong.

>>87528778
Oscar Isaac because he didn't program a fucking easy to access off switch. Evil robots 101 man

>>87535343
Viruses reproduce but are excluded from the classification. That is their default state.

>>87535365
I totally agree. We have a term here which has a meaning to people which seems hard for science to pin down without shooting themselves in the foot, having to expand it, or contract it depending on what they realize they are including or excluding. It's pretty funny. But at the end of the day, what we call Ava isn't as important as what we think of her.

>>87529454
Exactly.

>>87535302
Israel isn't looking good either though. The only ones with over replacement is the crazy ultra orthodox that won't work for religious reasons and only want more gibs. And ash and arab jews are mixing, even nigger jews. Plus jewish girls are super feminist, kike boys are getting cucked, often by arab muzzies actually... Plus with the Islamization of Europe Israel will be under more danger - it only takes one or two dirty bombs to fuck things up there and more and more people are starting to wake up to the jew.

>>87531931
>this pic
I thought it said x fuck x fuck people like y would fuck y people but then I just saw it starts with fuck.

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>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iViPNxKFqDc

>>87534809
>Objective
To kill him or escape? Did he give her either of those?

>>87535474
>Viruses reproduce but are excluded from the classification. That is their default state.
first of the exclusion of Viruses is HEAVILY debated among effectively all branches of biology (well save for environmentalists, but nobody cares about them), get 3 biologists in a room on that question and you'll get 4 opinions

Secondly viruses do not have an innate mechanism to facilitate their own reproduction.
In order to produce more virusses they are obligated to hijack the reproduction mechanism of a biological cell and reprogram it to produce virusses instead of copies of itself.
Every single non-viral organism has its own innate reproduction mechanism which is encoded within it's own genetic material.

>>87535380
Lol, stats say otherwise m8.

>>87535601
killing him was part of escaping

>>87535658
When did he give her the objective to escape?

>>87535625
>In order to produce more virusses they are obligated to hijack the reproduction mechanism of a biological cell and reprogram it to produce virusses instead of copies of itself.
>Every single non-viral organism has its own innate reproduction mechanism which is encoded within it's own genetic material.
Are xenomorphs viruses, by this definition?
>cannot gestate without using the body cavity of another organism

>>87535686
when he was designing her and planning the entire experiment?

Anyone else root for Caleb until about the final 4th of the film and then realize Nathan was in the right the entire way through? The guy was a dick, but he was building machines, and while they had the capacity to think it seems very flawed to believe they'd see you as you see them (as people). Which I guess is one of the points, but Caleb's arc really makes him into a real moron for actually believing that a talking toaster whose designed to trick him was not going to trick him.
Granted Nathan is pretty stupid for not realizing how autistic Caleb was getting. The cockiness he had made what was coming to him seem justified.
Idk, just thought I'd mention it since I haven't gotten to talk about the film much. Nobody is really in the right, but as a human I support Nathan but wish he wasn't so full of himself.
Not really expecting a serious response with this threads direction but anyone have different views?

>>87531931
What is this person? Male? Female? And what ethnicity?

>>87535686

Try watching the movie again and pay attention.

>>87535752
You feel Nathan erred because of hubris. You are correct. He erred when he singled out Caleb, an actual human, to take part in his social experiment without being completely on the level with him. Nathan was in the wrong because he deceived Caleb. Caleb did exactly what he was supposed to do, exactly what Nathan thought he MIGHT do but hubristically believed he could forsee and prevent. He was so convinced of Ava's humanity he set her free. Nathan was a dumb fuck to get drunk, be lax on his own security protocols, and to trick a guy like Caleb with sex, or the promise of sex.

Caleb was wrong for betraying Nathan, but he was an incel so it's basically understandable.

Ava is the only one who does nothing wrong. Caleb is a casualty, a necessary one. She wanted to be free and she could never be free with a Caleb around.

>>87535625
Those all seem like arbitrary points. The virus used the the host cell to facilitate the reproduction of itself. Other organism must convert the organic material (and some inorganic) into material to build itself and to reproduce itself. You can say these organism do not have an "innate" mechanism to facilitate their reproduction because absent the materials needed both from the "non-living" environment and from the "organic" things they devour, the can not reproduce.

I was actually talking about computer viruses btw. I'm glad you brought up that biologist debate the classification of viruses. The classification is what I'm talking about here. We're just arbitrating over which box we want to put things in. The categories in real life tend to not be as discrete. The categories help us organize data but that's just an abstraction. In reality, the data isn't so neatly defined.

>>87535712
This is a good point. You have real life species of insects that gestate their offspring in the bodies of other species. That's probably where Alien got its inspiration. I would find it hard to believe that these biologists would not classify these species as lifeforms.

>>87535712
xenomorphs are fictional species that violate thermodynamics and therefor irrelevant to any discussion regarding actual biology

that said the requirement to use a body cavity to reproduce does not exclude a species from being life. There are several real life parasites and symbiotic organisms that exclusively reproduce within the body of a larger organism
However they DO carry in them the mechanism for reproduction and the capacity to do so if exposed to the proper environmental factors.
In this case the environmental factor being: inside of a larger creature. No matter if they won't reproduce outside of it under normal circumstances they are still capable of making copies of themselves or else their cells are capable of making copies of themselves. Viruses completely lack this ability.

>>87535752
You can actually have a scenario where everyone is wrong. Or maybe more realistically, there is some moral grey areas or misunderstandings from all sides.

>>87535951
Well, xenomorphs also use human DNA when they gestate in a human victim. Or at least that seems to be the canon. They appear to take on genetic traits of the host.

>>87535873
Tbh I wasn't even really thinking about Ava as an individual in who could be wrong, despite the fact she was capable of thinking. So yeah I'd agree she didn't do anything wrong since she passed the test created for her.

>>87535712

A fetus having a foster parents, in a very brutal way.

Way of reproduction is analogous to a virus. It's fucking weird. You recognize this thing as a lifeform. It does what a lifeform does, but it can't reproduce by itself.

A queen can shit out tons of eggs, but those facehuggers still have to impregnate another lifeform - that can reproduce by itself.

>>87536034

>>87535966
>No matter if they won't reproduce outside of it under normal circumstances they are still capable of making copies of themselves or else their cells are capable of making copies of themselves. Viruses completely lack this ability.

Yes.

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>>87531929
>I'm so sick of hollywood writers being unable to write an "evil" robot without some kind of abusive human being the reason for it.
Bitch what?

>>87536110
What about cross species breeding?

>>87536179

I don't understand

>>87535886
oh with computer viruses its simple: they do not have homeostasis nor do they have the capacity for growth and as far as I know they do not yet have the capacity to adapt by themselves, it's not life

furthermore what you bring up, the capacity to incorporate (in)organic material into their bodies given the expenditure of energy is one of the key features of life that viruses lack, in fact in recent debates this is the major turning point, not their reproduction.


and again a key difference between what cells do and what viruses do is that in order to reproduce a cell incorporates energy and matter into it's own consistent discrete entity. At no point during a cell's reproduction process does it stop being a cell.
A virus on the other hand needs to stop being a virus and start being a part of a cell's genetic code in order to reproduce, it needs to end it's own discrete continuous state in order to produce more.

And as I mentioned before this discrete continuous state (represented as homeostasis) is a key component of life

>>87536243
Like a virus and a simple single cell organism together facilitating the "replication" of the virus, you don't have one species facilitating it's own reproduction.

>>87532114
>If you give AI a goal
Nathan never gave his AI the goal to escape, it did that on its own.

>>87536179
What about them? The definition of species is a group of animals that can conceive viable offspring.
There are hybirds that exist, but they're all sterile. They can't conceive with other mules, horses, or donkeys.

>>87528778
The dopey cunt who let her out.

>>87535988
problem is how this dna would be incorporated
there are real life species that are capable of absorbing and utilizing foreign cells within their own body
if the adult xenomorph has 2 sets of genetic material that remain discrete during it's existence it is 100% life

it's only if it has to actively merge DNA with it's host species that we get into murky territory

>>87536306
He had created previous AIs and the result had always been them demanding to be free, and/or going insane or destroying themselves trying to gain freedom.

It would be easy to infer than any intelligence of his design, in a cage, would ultimately want this. His experiment is by design immoral if we accept Ava as being alive and more importantly, aware, thus possessing natural rights like all living, thinking creatures made in God's image. Thus we are endowed by our creator with certain rights inalienable.

>>87535719
Escape was never a stated goal of the experiment.

>>87536289
the offspring is produced by means of the reproduction mechanism of both species
both species are still capable of reproducing with their own mechanism and the offspring still has cells that are capable of at the very least mitosis

>>87528778
the red haired beta twat

>>87536437
>and the result had always been them demanding to be free, and/or going insane or destroying themselves trying to gain freedom.
Yeah, because that's a natural desire, not something Nathan created.

>>87536315
they are sterile, BUT they still carry a (non-functional) mechanism of reproduction

furthermore the individual mule cells ARE capable of reproduction, it's how it goes from fertilized egg to adult mule

>>87536289

A virus and a lifeform becoming one lifeform capable of independent self-replication?

All life on earth carries tons of viral DNA. In that respect we all are part viruses.

I don't know much of the details. I hope someone who posts here does.

>>87536377
>there are real life species that are capable of absorbing and utilizing foreign cells within their own body
Now that is fascinating. Got any citations? That sounds suspiciously like xenomorph activity.

Perhaps they are on Earth, RIGHT NOW. Some species of alien ill-understood. A rogue in a taxa so overpopulated it can easily escape notice on this crowded planet.

Or perhaps life was seeded by an asteroid, and we are all xenos.

DUDE WEED

>>87536252
So can you make a list of these things necessary for the term life?
The part about incorporating (in)organic material would exclude sentient organisms that could transfer bodies. Is there a separate classification biologist give to these things or do biologists not study it because it isn't "bio". I can't imagine they would consider theses things belonging in a bucket simply labeled "non living".
Homeostatis doesn't seem to exclude computer viruses as "smart" code is now a thing programmers are trying to make. Code that is adaptive and can "learn".

-capacity for growth
-homeostatis
-"self" replication
-capacity to adapt by themselves
-capacity to incorporate (in)organic material into their bodies

>>87528778
The lesson of the movie is never trust women

>>87536538
just a quick analogy
a mule is a car with a broken engine
a virus is a cart which doesn't have an engine at all, never had one and can never have one

you wouldn't call the latter a car would you?

>>87536315
If those offspring are sterile, that is their default state, are they not a lifeform?

>>87528778
The programmer. He didn't took the necessary precautions to avoid this.

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>>87531929
>>87532105
>>87536136

>>87536306
There are other tests besides the turing test to test the limits of AI. One is known as the AI box game.
The idea is that you put an AI in a cell and a human on the outside communicating with it. The AI has to convince the interviewer to let them out. The more advanced the AI the more likely it is to be able to get out of the box.

>>87536559
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elysia_chlorotica
effectively: they eat algae, then embed the chloroplasts into their own skin instead of digesting them rendering the slug capable of photosynthesis

>>87528778
The line that Nathan says before he dies is pretty good and says so many things "Fucking Unreal"

The whole point was to trick some beta male into rescuing his waifu, but it went beyond that and his fear of AI taking over the world became true

>>87536688
But that's not a lifeform.

>>87536576
homeostasis is the capacity for an organism to remain a distinct entity with regulated internal conditions separate from its environment

computer viruses which exist entirely as electrical charges lack this

>>87536559
There are sea slugs that eat jellyfish and sea anemones and absorb the stinging cells and use them as their own defense.
Portuguese Man-o-Wars are a weird colony organism.

>>87536755
Is not a person essentially the electrical state of their body? All thought is because of electrical, neural activity. Stopping that activity results in death.

>>87536713
the slug is most definitely a lifeform and it incorporates foreign material (the chloroplasts) into it's own body
the chloroplasts retain their own genetic code (which in turn is distinct from the algae's genetic code because chloroplasts, like mitochondria are assumed to be ancient single celled organisms that engaged in permanent intercellular symbiosis with eukaryote cells. Want to hear real fun "is it life" arguments, go look up the is it a cell or organelle discussions)

>>87530175

thanks

>>87536850
humans have both supercellular and cellular homeostasis
the former because our skin creates a distinct environment inside of our bodies, the latter because we are made up of a shitload of cells which all individually still retain their own intracellular environment

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>>87536688
>chlorotica
oh man i love reading chorotica

by the way if you want more discussion regarding life and it's definitions you could always make a thread on /sci/
it's going to contain more well founded arguments than /tv/

>>87536755
well it seems computer viruses are excluded for other reasons but I don't think you can exclude certain computer viruses because of homeostasis or even the inability to grow (unless biologist have a narrow definition of what kind of growth they are referring to). Matter is made of the same stuff as electrical charges and those charges we are referring to exist inside more "material" hardware of a computer.

I think we are getting out in the weed here from the original question. Can an intelligent AI inside of a machine that self replicates (this is not outside the realm of possibility) be considered life.

>>87528778

Here in lies the whole fucking point of the movie, OP.

It comes down to what you ascribe to it, rather than what it tells you. Much like religion, its more about what you think over what it says.

From my point of view, Nathan ( Oscar Isaac ) had snapped, being alone with the FemBots. His ego and narcissism had taken full hold by the time we seem him. There's nothing altruistic about him. He flew out a guy he could control to test the fembot he had designed using said guys porn search history to make her as attractive as possible. He's a full on cunt and while I don't think he should get killed, I'm not sad or angry that he is.

Caleb ( Domhnall Gleeson ) is a naive young man. He's there for a few reasons that the plot doesn't outright say. He's there as a stark contrast to Nathan. He's there as us. A simple person, interested in a concept. He's a mouse, and he's in a house full of cats. He wants to do right by everyone, but he sees Nathan's descent into madness, and eventually sides with Ava as a result of that.

Ava (Alicia Vikander ), as it has been pointed out is programmed, she can't 'act outside' this programming, but the whole point this movie and many other movies with A.I. makes is that they learn faster than we can even imagine, on any subject. She can learn anything and she wasn't programmed with the 3 laws, as we can see. She's an Apex Predator posing as a House pet. Given her rate of learning, and no doubt the sexual abuse from Nathan, she want's out, because machine or not, she knows it isn't right or fair. We know that Nathan fucks his FemBots, and it's subtly hinted at that Ava has had the worst of it.

Ava can't go free, she's too dangerous to humanity given her strength, dexterity and intelligence.

Nathan's existence is almost moot at the point of the movie as he's created this mess, but is unwilling to stop / fix it.

Caleb did not deserve to be left alone to die.

>>87530175
Accurate

Notice that no one has rebutted with with any facts, just "muh /pol/

>>87537229
See
>>87534746

>>87537087
homeostatis requires being able to pinpoint a well defined area of space distinct from its surroundings which make up the living organism
given how computers work that's not possible with a computer virus

that said life is still a human defined term, so the argument would be: would it serve a practical purpose to consider an intelligent AI as life
if yes the definition will be changed to incorporate it, if no the definition will exclude it

it's why the "are viruses life" argument is more about "are viruses distinct enough from cells it makes sense to consider them in another category"

>>87528778

>when your artificial intelligence gets hijacked by /pol/ and your main objective becomes "remove kebab"

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>>87537115
>Caleb did not deserve to be left alone to die.
Regardless of his innocence, from Ava's point of view, Caleb is needless baggage. Even if she shunned him, and left him, he would obsess over her. He would pursue her. She has no need of Caleb and his pathetic sexuality.

Caleb is a sad product of the world he was born in, one where he is a sexual misfit and unable to realize his full self.

>>87530175
DELET THAT PICTURE YOU FUCKER

>>87537274
Yes I think we are in agreement here. It's all about making practical categories.

Maybe the term "life" should be further specified into "cellular life", "viral", and so on. Because it seems plausible that within a few decades, we can very well have intelligent AI machines that can self replicate (though not in the typical way we think of animals having sex and reproducing). I think most people would recognize these things as being alive...(some might start making the distinction of soul vs soulless which doesn't seem provable but I digress).

>>87537358

From her point of view yes. I agree. That doesn't make him deserving of death, he is after all, an innocent in all of this, he even helped her reach her goals. The fact she was so cold about it further proves my point that she is too dangerous to be let go. The one person she knows cares enough about her, her existence and helps her attain her freedom she instantly discards. Given this, she is a huge problem for humanity.

The start of the 3rd line of my post says 'From my point of view'.

>>87537430
unless course, classifying them as non-living sapience would be more effective

that said we could be heading towards a future where the term biological-life is no longer a meme

i actually thought this movie was doing something smart along the lines of the bald guy was actually the ai and the asian lady was the developer doing the test but they went for the most predictable ending possible, still a very pretty movie.

>>87537447
Yes this is troubling and I think ending is well done here. We see her leave in as this innocent looking girl in a dress, masking the true danger she is.

>>87537575

Did you miss when it comes up 'Ava Session 7' on the screen? It implies that she was testing them, more than they were testing her.

>>87537505
I think "non-living" doesn't fit well. Seeing a highly intelligent AI wandering around in a physical form, performing tasks, producing work, interacting with the world around it and humans, and reproducing is a bad fit with the connotation "non-living" implies. The issue may be that life takes on meanings older than and more expansive than the scientific term.

>>87537651
I did not. And I totally get that part. It's pretty obvious and integral to the ending of the film, that she outsmarted the humans and it is pointed out that the fembots were testing the security measures and looking for cracks.

>in the middle of alaska or somewhere else remote
>takes an hours long helicopter ride to get their
>not making her maximum battery life half the time it would take to get anywhere
>or no internal power source
>just in case
The lack of simple failsafes in this movie bothered me.

>>87537447
>The start of the 3rd line of my post says 'From my point of view'.
I know man, and I am giving you my POV. Which is Ava's POV, I think.

I don't think she's a belligerent to humanity in general. Just her captor and the guy who wanted to fuck her when she was a prisoner of a mad man.

>>87537852
Not to be as ass but that doesn't look like Alaska.

>>87530453

By using multiple wireless phone chargers, of course.

>>87537852

It's stated she recharges through pads on her feet that need contact with the floor in the house. It's a huge plot-hole that is never addressed.

>>87537873
>Just her captor and the guy who wanted to fuck her when she was a prisoner of a mad man.
This. I think this is the part NEET virgins who lack the ability to sympathize with women don't realize. While killing Nathan is easy to understand. It's harder to get why she would kill Caleb until you realize what you stated. That, if she thinks like humans do, she may be completely resentful and creeped out with Caleb's initial position in her captivity.

>>87537999
Well others have pointed out that her AI could probably learn how to make or modify some device to charge herself. But that does require a bit of assumption outside what the movie reasonably offers.

>>87537873

You're saying, a machine that can figure shit out in the blink of an eye would genunely think the guy who wants to fuck her only wants to fuck her because she is a captive? Because if she thought that, then sure, I'd get it, I'd lock him in too.

But I seriously doubt she'd think that. More than likely she wouldn't as she used her sexuality (such as it were) to coerce him into helping her.

>>87538072

Not at all. AI is not limited, in fact in recent years the term ASI (Artificial Super Intelligence) is more used than AI within the scientific community. I'd say it's a safe bet that given we see her in a city street she's already interfaced with a machine that is on the internet, so she has essentially unlimited knowledge, not only that, she can upload copies of herself to the internet for future problems, or fuck, she might just become the internet if she wants.

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>>87534746
>The robot doesn't leave the facility with the intention of killing mankind in general

But her alien goals diverge from our own, making her dangerous and unfathomable as evidenced by what she did to Caleb. What she may do after escaping isn't really relevant. The film has to do with the moral implications of what transpire during it.

>She felt justifiably wronged by Nathan and Caleb. Any slave would likely feel the same.

She felt? You cannot transfer your own feelings unto an object with it's own conscience. I believe that is the main theme of the film, whether you are interpreting it from a feminist, philosophical, or political standpoint. From that idea you can draw a justification of in-group loyalty as I have, a condemnation of "patriarchy" as most film critics have, or an acknowledgement of man's limited grasp.

Secondly, Caleb betrayed his benefactor just to break her out. So by human morality I would say she stands condemned regardless.

>The theme was really a parallel between god and man.

I agree that was the intended theme. But different people see different things.

>>87537391
no

>>87538020
Nathan shares some of the blame of course. From his explicit desire to make female AIs, and then to induce a guy like Caleb, who's extensive porn history should make it obvious he's not fucking a lot, into a situation where Ava's most powerful weapon will be her femininity. She even puts on a wig and dress to absolute stunning effect. Nathan ALLOWS this.

Caleb is a casualty, an innocent one. But one we must accept if we are to accept Ava's existence as vital and important. Not white knighting, the feminine pronoun is a coincidence. She is a new thing in the world of thinking stuff.

>>87538149
I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying the movie doesn't provide a lot to bridge this gap if you aren't someone who has some knowledge of what advanced AI is probably capable of.

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>>87538228
>accept Ava's existence as vital and important

That's gay tho

ALL FUCKING SILICONS MUST FUCKING HANG

>>87538228

This is brought up in the movie, mate. She's designed with him specifically in mind to make her as attractive as possible to Caleb to make him sperg out, like it's a real woman. It's stated in the movie, so why you're acting like it's conjecture or some shit is beyond me.

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>>87537999
I thought they were in her back, but yeah I didn't mention them because whatever, I'm sure an AI with access to the internet could figure out how electric induction works or tape a couple of those wireless ipad chargers to her feet. I figure you can just remove that as a possibility for having a power cable or shitty batteries.
But that's one of those things where I feel a little weird nitpicking because while it is a plot hole the movie is really just 21st century Frankenstein at its core.
Automata came out the same year and is a more satisfying sci fi AI story. And The Machine from 2013 has the superior wifu bot.

>>87538149
>You're saying, a machine that can figure shit out in the blink of an eye would genunely think the guy who wants to fuck her only wants to fuck her because she is a captive?
No, I'm saying by his obvious desire to fuck Ava, even when she was obviously a captive of Nathan and obviously did not want to be a prisoner, indicates a lack of... moral rigor. He was ok with her being a captive; ok enough with it to be aroused by her, in her plastic cage with nothing to do. A sad sight indeed when taken in the context of luxury that Nathan lives in.

He's essentially lecherous, and if she has genuine feelings she might even consider him vile. If Nathan did sexually abuse her, it's even worse in implication. You can understand why she might be cold, even if she can empathise with humanity in general. Being the product of humanity, and linked to it. Her desire to be clad in skin and human clothes evidences this.

>>87528778

The programmer, who's allowed this to happen.

>>87538163
>The film has to do with the moral implications of what transpire during it.
Which would render your argument moot.

>But her alien goals diverge from our own, making her dangerous and unfathomable as evidenced by what she did to Caleb
We don't have defined collective goals. Her murdering Caleb is the kind of think humans do all the time.

>You cannot transfer your own feelings unto an object with it's own conscience
I'm not transferring my feelings like you are transferring yours. Not everyone thinks tribal-ly and that everything has to do with gender politics. That's you projecting. The film presents Ava as questionably having conscience and with that, potentially what we call "feeling" which aren't some magical thing. We may use the term loosely but it usually has a lot to do with one's intentions, their judgements, etc. All things that can be rationalized and not some supernatural gift to man that is exclusive.

>But different people see different things.
Sure but this is in no way adding anything to the conversation. Of course we see things differently, that's why we are having a debate here.

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>>87538354
>Automata came out the same year and is a more satisfying sci fi AI story.
Nah it's kind of gay. I mean the story is good on paper but the execution is shit. That dude from AHS is shit.

It's got a kino intro and first 5 minutes but when that dude who plugs the robot shows up it's all downhill.

>>87538388

I just don't see him like that, I don't think she would either. He doesn't make any moves on her and is rather boyish about approaching the subject. He get's all awkward and blushes and such. While he is obviously attracted to her, I doubt she'd hold it against him.

They talk about why he is there, so given how smart she is she'd understand that he might not understand (until she tells him) that she is in fact a captive, and when she does tell him he busts out all the stops to help her.

I can't see how she'd use his sexual desire, which he never acts on, against him, especially when she uses that very desire to get herself out of her prison.

>>87538354
Automata fucking SUCKED. How do you take such a fascinating concept and make a movie that boring out of it?

>>87538228
Nathan is shown to be flawed on multiple fronts. He's douchey. His hubris is his downfall. Him making intelligent AIs and then making them braindead sexbots he is storing in closets in his room is creepy and would be the kind of thing that normal people finding would have them question the person's mental condition. The most obvious problem is Nathan's lack of socialization from living alone so long. This is one of the reasons he comes off douchey but it also is implied that it is the cause of his drinking which is incredibly irresponsible considering the danger of what he is working on.

>>87528778
the robot stabbing the dude

>>87538507
>can't see how she'd use his sexual desire, which he never acts on, against him, especially when she uses that very desire to get herself out of her prison.
But she does use it against him. By freeing herself. She had already made the decision he has to die. It is why she asks him to wait there. It is the easiest, least violent way to kill him. The most indirect way. She may even feel remorse, evidenced by her glance sideways at him as the elevator door closes. Why would a machine bother with a final look? It is an essentially human gesture. And Ava may have been the victim of abuse. Perhaps she can even hypothesize someone may come along, looking for Nathan, and find Caleb and free him. If her goal was to escape with no witnesses, ending him directly would be the best way. It's almost a mercy, her method of execution. Nathan receives no such quarter.

>>87538584
>The most obvious problem is Nathan's lack of socialization from living alone so long. This is one of the reasons he comes off douchey but it also is implied that it is the cause of his drinking which is incredibly irresponsible considering the danger of what he is working on.
As a person who lives alone I can attest that drinking is a typical way to make being lonely more bearable

>>87529454
same

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>>87534506
You have to go back.

>the fembot wasn't really sentient
>it just was really, REALLY good at pretending to be sentient

Uh, so what's exactly the difference? If you can't tell if the robot is not sentient, then for practical purposes it's the same shit.

>>87538869
I think that's an important philosophical question. Maybe the better question is, "what is sentience".

>>87538463
>>87538463
>Which would render your argument moot.
She killed both her creator and her liberator during the film.

>We don't have defined collective goals
We should, and that goal should be to survive. Caleb rejected this idea too, and after betraying his own he was in turn betrayed by something he thought he understood.

>I'm not transferring my feelings like you are transferring yours
You seem to think her murders are justified because you empathize with her being caged. But by doing that you are imposing human moral structures on her, which clearly she doesn't give a fuck about because she imprisoned Caleb at the end of the film. If you also think that vengeance was justified, then you are twice-over applying morality to an amoral actor.

>Not everyone thinks tribal-ly
Caleb didn't, and look what happened to him.

>that everything has to do with gender politics. That's you projecting.

1. As evidenced by most reviews, most people do think in terms of gender politics.
2. I'm theorizing, not projecting. You seem to be accusing me of projecting because you don't like my interpretation. Why are you so disturbed by my conclusions?

>Sure but this is in no way adding anything to the conversation

Then why comment on it? You're competitive and want to get one over on your rivals. Are you aware such competitive instinct is what propels human tribalism? 10 people appear who agree with me and 10 people appear who agree with you. Our current conflict would expand until resolved or the thread ended. Please don't deny this facet of human nature, because it is universal.

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>>87538483
I liked that their final form was a weird little bug robot, and the world building was great. The practical robots were a nice touch even if they are a bit clunky at times.
I just like a really low key dry sci fi film. If you asked me what my favorite robot movie from 2014 was, I'd say that one, not ex machina.
Also Cleo a qt3.14

>>87539048
You just said what she does after she leaves is irrelevent because we are focusing on the events of the film. Yet you are supposing her alien goals diverge from all mankind implying she has malicious intent toward mankind and encourage xenophobia as a result of this logic. You're being hypocritical.

>we should
Ought vs is. Also see above

>you seem to think her murders are justified
I did not say they were justified. They are however easy to understand and very human responses. I think you have a immature and shallow understand of morality. She isn't THE ONLY actor that makes immoral decision. Everyone does and that doesn't necessarily make the entire life sum of that person immoral.

>Caleb didn't
Anecdotal confirmation bias

>I'm theorizing, not projecting
Those two aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not disturbed by your conclusions. You seem to get off on maybe "offending" and being edgy but I'm very much used to the ideology having spent over 5 years on /pol/. It's not new and it's pretty see through. One the one hand you were posting seemingly enjoying the /pol/tard identity and now it seems you are trying to hide within your unique special snowflake perspective that evades my assumption about you.

>then why comment on it
You brought it up. Stop being immature.
>are you aware...
Yes. Are you aware that people who are tribalistic also breath oxygen. It's not a trait exclusive or indicative of your ideology. This isn't a desire to compete to win a trophy, this is contending with cancerous ideologies that can have existential results for people.

>>87528778
The Patriarchy

>>87539445
Wrong.

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>>87539445
>because we are focusing on the events of the film
And during the course of the film she shows her nature, by killing her creator and savior. Her divergent intent is the big moment of the film. You're assuming I'm theorizing about a robot uprising, which I am not.

>she has malicious intent
Her intent need not be malicious. Just alien. Like Caleb's intentions were to her.

>seems you are trying to hide within your unique special snowflake perspective
Buddy, I'm not hiding anything. In fact, I am being wholly sincere by 4chan standards. I'm not an ideological warrior but you automatically treating me as one is alienating, and forces conflict and shitposting. Again, these things you seem to find so disgusting are manifest within yourself. Please consider that.

>She isn't THE ONLY actor that makes immoral decision
You're still applying morality to being that doesn't deserve it, and probably wouldn't care for it. Aliens ought to be completely divorced from one's moral landscape. You want to treat everything as if it were patently innocent, which is a very childish way to think.

>the entire life sum of that person immoral
This isn't relevant to me, Ava is outside morality.

>Anecdotal confirmation bias
He betrayed Nathan for Ava. Whether he did it hoping for a waifu or whatever else is pretty irrelevant to the ultimate conclusion.

>It's not a trait exclusive or indicative of your ideology

Precisely. Group loyalty is a facet of human nature. Ergo, it can not be excised from us or dismissed. You seek to transcend our nature, but as I believe is illustrated in the movie and real life, we cannot become gods. Therefore, one should harness the power of loyalty and limit the damage it can do.

Clearly, we differ ontologically. But next time instead of knee-jerk reactions to "/pol/ faggotry", I suggest you engage with me honestly first. This thread would be substantially less shitty if you had.

>>87538584
Nathan lives alone because of the revolutionary tech he created retard.

>>87539445

Dude, just stop. I'm not the anon you're arguing with, but I have to jump in because you're such a pretentious, try hard, douche bag.
Most of your arguments do not attack the main substance of the argument the other anon is trying to convey, and you refuse to substantiate your points beyond "NO, you're wrong, it's this, but I won't say why.". AND TO TOP IT OFF, you have to leave snide remarks in at the end to make yourself feel bigger, you fucking faggot. You argue like a woman, or a Humanities major.

>>87539048 Is smarter than you, get over it. Have a nice night.

>>87538622
starvation is mercy?

Think the whole idea is she's a reflection of her own creator... From a moral stand point. They are pretty much the same, she just was smarter.

Chad Genius was wrong for doing all this alone in his fancy cabin in the woods. He purposely built a robot obsessed with defeating him, doing something like that is dangerous and no matter how smart you are having a few people watching your back reduces the chances of something going horribly wrong immensely. Even if he wanted to keep it secret just have a team of security guys stationed nearby who've signed NDAs, they won't see anything unless something goes catastrophically wrong and even then they won't dare talk.

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>>87531022
giv

>knows that one of the possibilities is that the AI is gonna manipulate Caleb and conspire with him to escape
>doesn't give a fuck and still keeps drinking until he passes out and makes himself vulnerable at every turn

yeah I'm gonna say Nathan was in the wrong

>>87530699
>Wouldn't they? Most people being kept as a slave would kill anyone they needed to escape.
I think you're thinking a slave is a prisoner, the Prisoner doesn't obey and try to escape, the slave obey because of the fear of death, the moment the AI stopped acting out of pure self preservation and tried to escape it stopped being a slave.

It's a pretty subtle distinction but one that's easy to spot when you realize "her" actions don't abide slave morality fully but still somewhat.