/tpg/ - Twin Peaks General

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>no set design, feels empty and lifeless
>no interesting ideas for storylines and generally bad writing
>relies on gimmicks only instead
>those are unoriginal or just bad, unfortunately ("fuck you, albert", glove, andy and lucy, coordinates, riddles, ...)
>bad acting (Bell, Lynch, Horse, Robertson, Dern, ...)
>dull characters (one-dimensional at best)
>storylines and characters are introduced for no purpose
>everything is supposed to weirdly connect and make sense
>shot in digital in a way that doesn't compensate for the technology's disadvantages (looks bad)
>roadhouse scenes (out of place, badly shot, the songs, the bands, the extras, ...)
>student-tier storytelling/editing (characters are shown walking up complete sets of stairs)
>stretched out needlessly, long takes have no particular effect
>obviously delusional and/or inexperienced fanbase perceiving it as particularly meaningful, complex or "deep"
>can't compare to the original series that doesn't have those problems (coherent/complex and beautiful sets, costumes and make-up/well shot/well acted/well written/magnificent multi-dimensional characters and character relations, music, storylines and gimmicks/creates a unique athmosphere as a result, changing the world of television forever whereas "the return" neither manages to do something established really good nor to invent something new)
>extended pitch black scenes because of a lack of a competent cinematographer
>audio issues with microphone static left unaddressed because of poor sound design
>extremely poor editing with magically disappearing extras and production staff accidentally walking into frame
>somehow the best thing in tv history

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>>87373001
friendly reminder that doppelcoop did nothing wrong and Cooper was the real fuck-up the entire time

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http://www.strawpoll.me/13870391
http://www.strawpoll.me/13870391
http://www.strawpoll.me/13870391
http://www.strawpoll.me/13870391

VOTE

Reminder that /tpg/ has invested so much into Twin Peaks that they are currently pretending the finale wasn't utter dog shit.

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I want to cuddle under the blankets with a hot cup of coffee in Laura and Audrey's cabin!

I think the true key to unlocking the enigmatic ending of the cinematic master piece known as Twin Peaks: The Return lies in an overlooked line spoken by the character Gordon Cole who is portrayed by the visionary extraordinaire himself, David Lynch. Agent Albert Rosenfield insinuates that Cole has "Gone soft in his old age" to which Cole retorts that he is "Still hard where it counts". To the unseasoned viewer, this exchange may seem like nothing more than a sexual innuendo but a seasoned Lynch scholar such as myself is able to discern its true meaning. When Cole states that he is hard where it counts, he is not referring to his ability to perform sexually. Instead, he is referring to David Lynch's "hard" stance when it comes to his cinematic principles and themes. One would expect David Lynch to reward viewers of Twin Peaks: The Return with a sense of finality after 25 years of waiting patiently or that Showtime would pressure him to give the series an ending typical of network tv. In true Lynchian fashion, Lynch has given us an ending reminiscent of his other works such as Mullohand Drive or Lost Highway. An explainable ending would have been indicative of Lynch getting soft in his old age, the ending we are treated to truly reinforces the idea that Lynch is still hard where it counts; his directorial ethics.

>>87373001
>which finale part was better
>no "both" option

Fuck you, OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8-KTdNdizE

This is my first /tpg/ since the finale

How is everyone doing?

this was a nice ride

goodbye fellas

no need for a new season

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>>87373129
>being a cop-out fag

Pick one, pussy

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>>87373152

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>>87373125
>ywn be sandwiched between 1990 Sheryl and 2017 Sheryl

what doth life

>>87373152
Call me a pleb but it was all a bit too much for me. Just gonna re-watch the first 2 seasons

>>87373152
I'm ok.
):

>>87373077
It's not hard to say at all. If you don't get that his entire MO (modus operandi) is creating art that embodies the necessity for love and compassion in a dark and chaotic world, you haven't really been following his work or career.

I mean that's literally the entire key to the White Lodge, as spoken by Garland.

implying that he isn't sincere about Denise is also just plain crazy talk.

Explain this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1-31cSNhPU

Is FWWM the second time Laura dies, or the first?

Or, is it the N time it happens, as it is an infinite Loop?

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>>87373152
fine, I'm feeling very inspired by the ending.

>>87373138
>it all feels like the same show
Why do normies pretend the Return isn't like Twin Peaks again?

>>87373152
Getting too many Lost Highway flashbacks.

Do you guys think there will be deleted scenes on the blu ray?

Hopefully they keep this ending and stop. There don't need to be anymore seasons/episodes, because in the end Cooper never escapes the cycle of trying to be the infallible hero (he was damned as soon as he stepped foot inside the lodge).

Cooper was a man always trying to overcome his demons instead of letting go of them. He had multiple chances to walk away from the madness that he found himself in, but chose to keep wading forward through it all anyway, because after all there had to be a meaning/purpose to all of this right (Bob, Laura, Fireman, Judy, etc.)? He was in over his head from the very beginning, dealing with metaphysical principles outside of human understanding, but his damn stubbornness and spiritual beliefs led us to believe that he would come out on top of this in the end.

His pride in his beliefs, his certainty in the face of uncertainty, led him full circle quite literally. It appears that he's likely inside another lodge, within a different reality where everything has changed, and yet again is out of his element (but Cooper will confidently/defiantly wade on anyway, Laura will give him the breadcrumbs that drive him forward). The poor bastard will likely continue trying to save Laura Palmer, solve the mystery of the lodges, and everything else until his demise.

The final credits lead me to believe that Cooper finally understands how ignorant he was of the tragic situation that he created for himself previously, possibly the futility of Laura Palmer's situation, and yet still Cooper will wade forward.

>>87373292
Thank God I'm not alone. /tv/ always subscribes to the darkest route as a general rule, but goddamn it gets to me sometimes.

>>87373227
That would be heaven.

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>>87373001
that part was fucking kino

>>87373152
The ending bummed me out like nothing else. But I've been thinking a lot about it since. There can be no good ending. All good endings are just stories and dreams. All the real endings are sudden and everything gets dark after that.
Twin Peaks was never meant to be pretty or satisfying. Lynch drove that point home very clearly.

>>87373227
imagine if they both pinned you down and did dirty things to you hahaha wouldn't that be the worst

17 was happy, then sad, like the ride was over.

18 left me terrified. And I'm so glad.

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>>87373117

sounds like a little projection on your part, friendo

>>87373321
FWWM was a definitive ending too, but he always has hanging threads: Chalfonts, Agent Desmond, Convenience Store/Motel/Mauve Zone, Richard/Linda timeline

he has ways to return.. so to speak.

But to be realistically morbid about it, Lynch is also too old to keep doing TP for much longer, if at all. Especially given his other interests with painting, music, exhibitions, commercials, future movies, etc.

We only get him for another 10 or 15 years tops. cherish him while he's here.

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>>87373344
yeah, I found the ending dark and sad, but it made me feel very satisfied (and frustrated, but not in an entirely bad way). Call me a pleb, but it inspired me to write a fic about one of the theories I read about. that's been very cozy. And don't worry, the initial hype is still strong, but /tpg/ will calm down soon enough and not be so overdramatic about it all.

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This guy is gradually losing both his sanity and identity, and is trapped in a never-ending inter-dimensional hell.

Say something nice about him!

What does /tpg/ think about Harry Dean Stanton?

>>87373265
>>87373265
>implying that he isn't sincere about Denise is also just plain crazy talk.
Watch it again and tell me he wasn't disgusted by Denise talking about her hormones. Denise definitely didn't raise her voice enough for his earphones to act up.

>>87373152

: - ) ALL.

>>87373152
Disappointed. I don't necessarily hate the idea of the finale but the whole episode being so fucking boring and dragged out really got to me. Surely there was a better way could have done that thing.

>>87373063
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT WHY DO YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO BE SO CONTRARIAN EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME

NO
NO NO

THERE IS NO WAY THAT 18 WAS BETTER THAN 17

GO FUCKING NUKE YOURSELVES

>>87373265
This guy gets it. Which is why the ending left me kind of cold. There seemed to be no triumph of love (Blue Velvet, Straight Story) or even comfort in the possibility of love (Eraserhead, FWWM) or even punishment over a failure to love unselfishly (Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive). There just seemed to be an exposed nihilistic core at the end that felt off from all of Lynchs other work.

>>87373513
here
>>87373037
remember that, coop

>>87373303
>it all feels like the same show
It really doesn't

Also the only character that is really shown in that video across both series is Cole, and there's a huge difference. He was a jolly cunt in the original.

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>>87373412
The whole episode was.

>>87373152
Still some shitposters lurking but for the most part it's turned into actual discussion

first time I've stayed in /tpg/ for more than 10 minutes, been chatting all day

>>87373515
Carl was an useless character. They should have left him out.

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>>87373542
lynched

>>87373001

I accidently watched ep18 then ep 17 and i am actually really happy and content and ended it on a high

>TFW you accidently avoid a major lynching
>god re arranged my media playlist that day

>>87373513
atleast every girl you ever met wanted to bone u

>>87373515
Legendary and I'm excited for that film coming out starring him and featuring David Lynch.

>>87373542

>i don't like your opinion so its not real lol

>>87373542
The Bob punching scene was one of the worst things I've ever seen.

>>87373152
The finale was odd but intriguing, but I liked it mostly because it upset so many redditers

>>87373117
It was the best episode of the whole show.

>>87373542
>contrarian
anon pls. 18 was better imo, but I don't mind if people liked 17 more. there's nothing contrarian about it.

>>87373540
I love this reply because people probably acted the exact same way for the S2 finale 25 years ago. the bank guy walking so slowly, Coop's extended Black Lodge scenes, absolutely no closure.

Lynch is only doing what he's always done.

Judy is being set up as the new antagonist and Sarah crying out to Laura at the end was actually Judy reaching out to Richard and Carrie in the new world.

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>>87373593
*blocks your path*

>>87373513
"What year is this?"

>>87373321
I don't see it.

Cooper, for once, got a direct instruction from the Fireman, wrapped up BOB, and went to get Laura, which is apparently part of a long-running plot to deal with Judy.

This season showcased a world without Dale Cooper, with 25 years of BOB running amok and the Black Lodge seeping into reality. Woodsmen are everywhere, people get mysteriously killed and nobody's able to stop the murderous spirits (who don't even need to possess people to kill now), portals to the Lodges are opening and not just in Twin Peaks, children going crazy/zombielike etc. Finally beating BOB and getting the old gang together, as heartwarming as it was, was not enough to protect the world from the evil that filled it. Cooper deciding to just stop would only mean that the other dark spirits would have free reign, even with BOB gone for good.

Cooper has to keep fighting.

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>>87373572
but he was the best character this season

What you think?
My Theory is that Cooper was in the dream reality since he saw Naido. I think Naido is Judy not Sarah like everyone says. Everything after that is Cooper's subconscious being used to trap him in the nightmare world that Judy controls.
That's what the final scene is showing, Cooper and probably the real Laura trapped in a nightmare. The final scene is Laura realizing the truth and the false reality she was living comes crashing down.

>>87373422
Then she preceded to steal Laura from Coop and send her to another dimension instead as another person. Coop may have realised this and went after her, but Judy foiled him with the Chalfonts/Tremonds.

He lost.

Lets say Laura "wakes up" from this nightmare when she hears her mom calling for her and the power goes out. What happens to Coop as this artificial Judy dimension collapses?

>>87373521
This. There are two Lynches. Old fashioned guy David was disgusted. Business Man David that wants to sell you $5,000 meditation lessons was happy.

I'm scared of Judy.

>>87373509
Twin Peaks related or something else?

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>>87373509
I saw it as bittersweet. Cooper's soul was destined to keep Laura's soul safe from Judy across time and space. His test was to accept this eternal struggle, and he did so with perfect courage by the end.
He'll never get his ending, because his existence will never end. That said he did have a vacation of sorts as Dougie. In a way that's a way to see life. We go through good, happy times, and sad, dark times in measures. One always gives in to the other and we just have to take what we can get and enjoy what we have.
That's one of the things I got out of it.

>>87373609
it was pretty funny in a good way imo, I enjoyed it.

18 was better though.

>>87373020
>that tit
nice

I've never seen an episode of Twin Peaks.
Can I start at the last episode or do I have to watch the other three seasons and two movies to know whats going on?

so now that coop and laura are stuck alone in an alternate reality, can we expect to have season 4 exclusively focused on them battling judy as they fall in love and have hot uncomfortable sex with each other

>>87373542
Part 17 was dumb, anon. Why do you think it is contrarian to prefer 18?

somebody link the thread right after the finale please

>>87373687
What happens to the people in your dreams when you wake up?

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>>87373542

>>87373667
He'll keep fighting for ever. Don't forget, Philip Jeffries showed Cooper an infinity sign before allowing him to travel to the past.

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>>87373001

Anyone else really like the show moment to moment but think the overall plot sucked ass? The whole Judy bullshit and Laura is the one crap was lame but each scene was beautiful.

>>87373714
based

>>87373685
She stole Laura by killing her using her henchmen BoB

Cooper undid that, and outsmarted Judy. Judy tried to trick coop into leaving the house but he kept asking questions, leading to Laura's awakening

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>there are people here right now who posted on 4chan during the finale

>>87373716

read the pastebin

>>87373521
Yeah it's personal and gross like menopause and periods and poops. It wasn't a reaction to Diane as a trans person you mongoloid.

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>>87373712
I always thought the red room floor looked a bit like the folding pattern of our brains.

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>>87373001
Thoughts on 17 being almost a whole point higher than 18? I thought 18 was much better in how crazy it was and not being as fan-servicey as 17, but I'm guessing angry viewers are voting 18 at a 1/10.

>>87373020
took you a long time to copy that pasta? it sure did took me a sec to know you are full of shit saludos

>>87373729
>>87274062
LYNCHING in real time

>>87373685
Cooper had the instructions on how to go to Judy's from Jeffries and Fireman from before he "lost" Laura.

And even with him confused in the end, Laura realizes who she is, so his plan started working.

I find The Return to be the perfect bookend for Lynch's career.

I think the most accepted reading of Eraserhead is that it embodies the anxieties Lynch had most at the time, mainly a fear of fatherhood and the responsibilities of being a 20-something (with horror scenes made up of working class life, meeting his girlfriend's parents, adulterous thoughts, etc). Young Lynch made a horror movie out of everything he was feeling at that age.

TPTR is the same thing fifty years later, but replace the anxieties of a 20-something with those of today's Lynch. The anxieties of the new season are all about growing old and a world which changes around you. Some people stay the same, but the world is still different and scary. Cooper can never return because the world he knows is gone, and of course the past is unnatainable as well. Episode 18 feels like the terrified journey of two old souls, trying to revisit a place from their youth but everything is different now and the people they once knew are gone. The optimistic "everything will be fine" of Eraserhead is replaced with the terror and confusion of "what year is this?"

>>87373646
Season 2 finale is fucking awesome though. Even if there never was any continuation it's still a great piece of television. The season 3 finale is just so fucking boring and dull. Aside from sex with Diane and the last scene it's not scary or emotional or even really interesting in any way.

>>87373805
thank you my friend, hope you have nice day/night

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>>87373705
Twin Peaks related, yeah. I thought it was gonna be short, but I'm at 7 pages and over 3k words already and not even half-way done. it's been cozy writing it and trying to fit all that we saw in the Return together with the og show.
>>87373712
that's an interesting way of looking it. I thinking something similar as well, since I don't think Cooper's gonna be truly free of his task related to Laura, but there are bright spots in everything.

I just cant keep thinking about how something was wrong with Cooper in the finale.

Who else can't decide if this was pure fucking genius or just overrated crap?

>>87373609
It was Lynch giving normies the Dragonball Z ending they wanted, all while employing a Brechtian distancing technique of the viewer's reflection, reminding us that what we are seeing is a dream, a fiction, a narrative construct, that only serves to underscore the truth of what the artist is trying to say through image.

>listening to Garden of Delete before and inbetween watching two last episodes
>tfw Animals gets interhangably associated with the ending in my brain
I didn't want those feels

Look at me. Blink. Breathe. Read me with your full concentration. Now: Game of thrones is the epitome of tv. It has it's ups and downs but so does a rollercoaster. You still feel the adrenaline, the rush, the excitement, and relief that it has ended, it's a ride, a joy, a life experience my friend. No other show can give this gift of emotions. Name one show. Just one. Go on. Pause and think. Oh.... you can't? I know. Because it's impossible my friend,

>>87373893
see >>87373020

I feel like Cooper is in essence Lynch's weird take on the old time movie serial cowboy hero, ya know the kind of movie where people's hats wobble when they get shot at, but instead of battling crooks he's battling spiritual evil. And just like in those serials each episode ends with him in a seemingly unescapable predicament. First shot, then stuck on a hell dimension, now stuck in a fake, possibly dying universe.
But you're supposed to know that Cooper will never give up or stop fighting and will always find a way.

>>87373192
Baby let me love you dooooown


There's so many ways to love yah

Baby I can break you dooooown

>>87373774
>>87373825
Even if his plan did work and he woke Laura up and out-smarted Judy, what happens to him?

He seemed pretty traumatised at the very end, never mind his fearful expression in the credits sequence.

>>87373020
>>87373919
samefag

>>87373855
sounds interesting, post it here when you're done. Is it a continuation of the ending then?

>>87373918
I don't want emotions. I want something out of this reality entirely to chew on.

>>87373855
Yeah, we're on the same page. Life is suffering, but that suffering isn't a constant.

>>87373886
Kyle said in an interview he thinks that Richardcoop is a "harder" man. I think he was starting to take on the personality of the Richard from that universe. Kind of like how he took on dougie's slowness when he took dougie's place.

Audrey = Cooper
Billy = Laura

>>87373893
It was genious. Any piece of media can give me story and a closure, barely anything can evoke such feelings.

>>87373779
This. What the fuck is wrong with you people.

>>87373687
We don't even know if it's an "artificial dimension" yet. I don't think we are supposed to scientifically discern it. It's a new dream, perhaps from the new dreamers, both are true, yet not. Kind of like the intersecting Fred and Pete dreams from Lost Highway.

>>87373945
Nope

>>87373789
Very slow paced, difficult to appreciate without rewatching the whole show first, an incredibly large Twin Peaks fanbase doesn't actually like Laura (I know right?). Cliffhanger/"confusing" ending that leaves no closure to the average viewer, after all, all works judged by normal people die or live by their endings.

Not that 17 is worse than 18 or anything. I'm not pretending anything, both are amazing as a full ending to the show and I'm really glad Lynch decided to air them back to back.

>>87373990
>check out that sticky
>people arguing about whether or not leland was innocent during the fucking finale

people are crazy desu

>>87373996
>yet
Anon, you might as well wait for the real meaning behind Jack Torrance's photo in the Gold Room entrance.

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Who was he talking to?

>>87373063
note that Tracy established the "sex magic" aspect of Twin Peaks. Diane and Coop fucking was a magic ritual. Even the most autistic theories have failed to incorporate this.

>>87374057
Jesus

Why does Cooper go from being surprised Laura just disappeared in the past to being completely okay with being in the lodge again and not at all surprised that Laura is in the lodge too despite apparently disappearing from existence.

>>87373020
ahahahahahaha

>>87373789
17 was easier to digest, 18 is a lot harder. I wouldn't be surprised if 18 has a higher average without all the 1s like you said. People said it as a joke but 17 really was the pleb ending.

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>>87373948
thanks, man. not a true continuation (but then again, it kinda is), but a look at how, in one theory I read, Coop changed Laura's past and the ending was her waking up the day her body was supposed to have been found. I'm not 100% behind the theory actually, but there was something that made me write about it. Audrey's POV actually, but Laura heavily features in it. I'll post it here when I'm done.

So what happened to Audrey?

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GUARDS WHERE

>>87374068
Being able to enter the past at all means he's accepted the weirdness of it all.

>>87374060
Wrong. That was Richard and Linda. Cooper temporarily filled the role before waking up as Cooper again.

>>87374108
But how can Laura be back in the lodge? I just don't get that. I really think it was all a dream it's the only way to make any sense of it.

Does Judy have a big booty?

>>87373745
I agree with this anon. Cooper seems to be stuck in the reoccurring thought, "I swear! It will work this time! It has to work this time!"

Cooper will always be one step behind saving Laura, because that is the way it has to be.

The question, "Is it the future or is it the past?" seems to indicate that neither is discernible from the either. Cooper is stuck in a never ending cycle. Suffering is not limited to only bad men.

>>87374108
>Being able to enter the past at all means he's accepted the weirdness of it all.
Not necessarily. Look at how disoriented Phillip Jeffries is when he appears in FWWM.

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Who else is still depressed?

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>>87374100
Audrey was the Dreamer who dreamed and then lived inside the dream. Charlie changed her story from the one about the little girl who lived down the lane (Laura) to the story of Richard and Linda.
Charlie was literally the dweller on the threshold.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6ZVEMzvZIY

>JUDY'S IN THE BEDROOM
>INVENTING SITUATIONS
>BOB IS ON THE STREET TODAY
>SCOUTING UP LOCATIONS

what did he mean by this

>>87374174
Me.

This shit hit me hard.

>>87374100
There's some connection between Audrey being in a bright white room, and Laura removing her face to reveal bright white light

I can't figure it out, but I really think there's something

>>87373996
This. People are rightfully exhausted of the "it was all a dream" ending but I think Lynch is trying so say something more with that. He's saying that all dreams are beautiful and full of life. Even the tulpas/fake humans are filled with emotions and live normal human lives, we are supposed to be happy for Janey and Sunny for receiving a "fake" Cooper but he's isn't fake, he's alive. Similarly the dreams aren't fake, they are not to be discarded just because they aren't real, that something is a dream shouldn't make the viewer feel that he wasted his time.

That being said I'm not 100% on the "it was all a dream theory" in the literal sense.

>>87374083
Episode 16 of the original run is the only good ending the show had, if it's endings you're looking for - which isn't exactly what Twin Peaks is about.

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Is he okay?

>>87374132
The biggest.

Why did Lynch have to bring Laura back in to this? Her story was wrapped up why bring her back? I just don't know if I like that part of the ending. It's just stupid to make Laura into some messiah figure just because he really liked her as a character. He should have kept her plot as it was in FWWM.

>>87374174
On that note does anybody else feel considerably less depressed?

>>87373940
>Even if his plan did work and he woke Laura up and out-smarted Judy, what happens to him?
Let's start with the fact that we don't know if Laura "woke up", whatever it would mean in this context. Let's stop at Carrie realizing that she's Laura.

>He seemed pretty traumatised at the very end
I believe it's the strain of trying to hold on to his identity in the world where he's supposed to be "Richard", rather than Special Agent Dale Cooper. It's like the antipode of Fred's actions as Pete in Lost Highway.

Like Gordon Cole said, we just don't know whether their plan to reach Judy worked or not. At the very least, Dale managed to reach and restore Laura, the One, the anti-Judy, and that's it for now. I don't see the implication of Dale being trapped forever when he was the one to enter Lodges, travel trough time and electricity at his own leisure. Although let's not forget about Diane, who's left "Richard", but might end up being their only way back.

>>87374221
He's cruisin' together with Wally in his new car.

>>87374186
So the "It was all Audrey's dream" fags were the right ones all along? Wow.

>>87374221
He showed his new car to everyone in the end

>>87374217
17 was the happy ending...until laura was taken.

18 is the epilogue

>>87374090
Raped and stuck in a coma till she dies.

So what was Bob even trying to do by getting the coordinates?

>>87374174
I feel empty inside and can't stop thinking about 18

>>87374174

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGqVDQ-7u0g&list=PLT6aoI6Aki8xeOrcJ9Avho3ZGjC4GghY2&index=78

Just fuck my shit up. He will never save her senpai.

>>87374232
>why bring Laura back into a story all about Laura

hhhhhhhhrrrrrddddeeerrrrrrrr

>>87374232
>make Laura into some messiah figure
almost seems like something that Laura would dream about

>>87374174
I've had trouble sleeping the last two nights, I was a lot less depressed during the day today though. I hope that means I finally can sleep well

>>87373940
what if the Firemans plan needed the sacrifice of Coop & Laura to defeat Judy?

>>87374270
Audrey is dead. She got taken to some other dimension. Her talking to charlie woke her up and she realizes who she really was.

>>87374285
meant for>>87374100

Is the Fireman Logladys husband ?

>>87374270
Maybe, but it's really not all that important. It just subtly showed us the dreamer. That doesn't matter, though, since we've known since FWWM that it was a dream since Jeffries said so. The identity of the dreamer is just a detail. It doesn't kill or even dent the impact of the series, at least not for me.

>>87374314
Yes but they wrapped up her story and the way they brought her back into the story feels hamfisted. She used to just be an ordinary girl tormented by the evil that men do but now she is literally jesus.

>>87374232
Laura has always been the most important part to Lynch. Anyone who thought the story was going to end anywhere with her is deluded/new to the series

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>>87374174
Me at credits

>>87374205
TM is about accessing the infinite consciousness within, which is what I interpreted Laura's face to be. The infinite consciousness is recognition of a universal oneness which binds all living things, and therefore the key to existence and happiness.

It's also the polar opposite of MOTHER/Experiment/Judy's face, which is an infinite void of smoke/fog/despair/violence.

I don't think Audrey is inside Laura's face or anything, but the noise suggests she's inside electricity, moving through space/time, perhaps on a journey from life to death.

>>87374129
She wasn't. Go rewatch. It repeats the episode 2 sequence but without Laura, and with a long pause as Coop looks at the chair she was in as if expecting her to show up.

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Whose fucking car was this?

>>87373020
/tpg/ BTFO

>>87373736
So would you say that Coop, who had traveled to this other timeline, would cease to exist entirely?

In part 2 when Laura whispers to Cooper, his reaction seems to be one of fear. When she whispers to him in episode 18 his reaction is one of confusion. In part 2 when he sees the arm again, he asks him if he remembers his doopleganger. In part 18 when he sees the arm again, he asks him is it the story of the little girl who lives down the lane. Any ideas about what this means and why the scenes ar similar but different?

>>87374366
lol bait

>>87374060
>Even the most autistic theories have failed to incorporate this.
It's like Lost Highway's ending in reverse:
>Electricity/shaking in the car while on the road
>Going along the highway to a motel
>Seeing a woman's doppelganger at the motel
>Sex magic ends with the change of identity / crossing into altered reality

>>87374381
Nope you should rewatch 18. Laura whispers in his ear again.

>>87374366
You'll need some black in the top three squares of 12, 13, and 14 to finish the Dougie picture, dumbass.

>>87373552
Cooper loved nobody, he had nobody. The few times we see him in love, he fails and abandons them. He was duty bound to Laura just to finish his case and he failed again.

Cooper's story is one of failure without love or ignorance of love, which is how he ended up in the black lodge.

>>87373612
obsessed

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>>87374174
It's fucked me up that much, I don't even think I can watch the original series with a smile on my face anymore. What a downer. A brilliant, perfectly executed downer.

>>87374381
she gets scream-yanked again. she's there for a moment.

>>87374192
Holy shit is this canon?

>>87374460
>It's fucked me up that much, I don't even think I can watch the original series with a smile on my face anymore.
I'm starting up S1E1 tonight and I'm actually kind of nervous about how it's going to feel

>>87374390
Cooper was never real. He was an ideal man, a white prince, Laura dreamed of to save her from her sexually abusive father and emotionally abusive mother.

>>87374299
I think Judy and Laura just cancelled each other out in the end. The whole thing was neutralized. In this way the show goes on forever. Laura is the dying-and-rising god that prevails forever against evil incarnate, facilitated by Cooper.

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>>87374366

>>87374192
>who's judy
>i'll tell you later

>>87374384
And why was it an old one?

>>87373020
This is correct. Didn't notice any problems with the audio though.

who else here disappointed that wally didn't make a triumphant return for the finale

>>87374299
These end credits so were so enigmatic and haunting. The image, the music. I couldn't believe it.

>>87374384
That's what I wondered too. I thought maybe they were going back to the nuclear test and were going to prevent it from ever happening.

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>>87374513
The first time I watched EP1 right after FWWM was soul crushing thinking about what had happened only a few hours before in that late night, I can only imagine how it would feel now

>>87374174
What do you guys think she whispered? I'm wondering if she didn't just tell him that he could never save her and she was doomed to be raped and murdered by her father.

did some good hearted autist already figure out what pins cooper was wearing this time

>>87374418
>>87374060
the sex seemed intentionally forced to me too, but they never even hinted why or what for

even though it's obvious now that it caused a transformation, it doesnt turn out how Richard wanted...

>>87374299
I loved the end credits but i don't think it has anything to do with what happened at the end. i think you guys are reading too much into it. they were end credits and that was all.

>>87374232
Lynch and Frost wrapped up the BOB story, and opened up a new dimension to the Laura's story, related to why BOB was trying to possess her, and why it was so important for the reformed MIKE to have her killed instead. FWWM did not wrap up Laura's story. It only started to open the curtain on why she was in the center of all the mysticism in Twin Peaks.

>>87374427
What about Windom Earle's wife. Or Annie. Or Audrey. Or Harry Truman.

This only has to be a ballcrushingly tragic ending if you let it be.

Something happened in that last second, I don't know what it was, but Coopchard bringing Laurrie to that house set something off. It didn't yield the closure and answers they wanted, but it wasn't a meaningless trip.

>>87374616
Literally just said this out loud and then you posted it

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>You can actually pinpoint the second when his heart rips in half

is this basically the same as the dark tower?

love was not enough

Knowing how it ends, would you prevent The Return from happening?

>>87373315
With all the shit they kept in the show, I don't think anything got deleted. There was 10 minutes of a man sweeping.

>>87374357
>she takes on all the evil surrounding her so that the residents of TP don't have to
>is a sacrifice for the sake of defeating evil

she was always Jesus

>>87374697
Absolutely not. This shit was a beautiful journey.

>>87374527
Laura was the dreamer but nobody wants to take Lynch's obsessive 25 year long cuteposting spree seriously enough to believe it.

>>87374674
Laura woke up from the dream.

>>87374692
Thematically, pretty much.
It's like Maturin realized what a hack Stephen King was and turned his eye to a much better storyteller.

>>87374674
The Doppelganger is dead
Bob is gone
Dougie is back and reunited with family
Cooper is no longer trapped in a red curtained hell hole for 25 years
And he found her

It's a half win.

>>87373783
It's a joke dummy

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253

>>87374669
He fails every time.

Earle's wife dies. Annie dies. Audrey blown up into comaspace. Janey E was the only one who didn't die but he abandoned ALL of them. Never mentions Earle's wife, Annie, Audrey at all after he wakes up, merely throws a fake version of himself at Janey E and goes back on the mission. He doesn't respect love, just ignores it.

>>87374290
Either seeking out Sarah directly, or seeking out Diane, who's apparently a requirement to cross into Judy's. According to Booper, "he wanted [Judy]", though apparently he did not know who exactly she was at the time, that's why he needed the coordinates.

The ones Jeffries and Ray gave him led to a trap. The ones sent by tulpa Diane were supposed to lead to real Diane's location.

episodes 1-17 are what Cooper dreamt his return from the lodge would be like, 18 is what it actually was like. all the roadhouse scenes and performances are Audrey's dream

>>87374674
Laura woke up. I can't understand why this is so hard for people to not understand.

>>87374610
who killed laura palmer was never intended to be answered so Lynch retconned her whisper so that it can never be solved, once and for all. that's the only reason he came back to twin peaks, to reset it back to his original intentions pre-S2, when he didn't "kill the goose that laid the golden eggs"

So basically she whispered "MacGuffin"

>>87373712
What is this type of pattern called? Zig zag?

>However, I must tell to you that [Sabrina Sutherland, Executive Producer of Twin Peaks] has warned me that there are still things she can't answer, despite the series finishing. Make of that what you will.

>>87374796
I think it's more what she woke up to that bothers people.

>>87374769
Adds up to a perfect ten. Also the time on The American Girls watch when coops leaves the waiting room

>>87374647
That's just stupid anon I'm sorry. There was no explanation needed on why Bob was going to possess Laura he was an evil spirit who thought it would be fun to possess her. That's basically all you need to know, the idea that she was some messiah force is just stupid there was no hint at that in the original series in any way. I could have accepted that Laura was a gold ball just because she was a good person but not because she was the messiah. Now it looks like she can literally stop the most ancient evil who is apparently responsible for all of the pain and suffering in Twin Peaks. This makes her original role as an example of the horror of Bob and the evil in men cheapened because now she is just some fantasy crap.

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Is it like Infinite Jest where you have to restart it from the beginning for it to make any sense?

>>87374816
chevron

>>87373001
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8-KTdNdizE

>>87374579
They should've made him Freddy's character

>always wears driving gloves
>meets up with his parents at the end
>saves the day by punching evil to death

Why does Carrie page remember Sarah and not Leland

>>87374853
any sense

>>87374610

I believe she's saying something along the lines of waking her up at the end of 18 is responsible for her being there. In some way she's giving him information that takes what he thought was a good act and contextualising it as being the root of the problem.

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>>87374769

>>87374878
Probably just because of Judy

>>87374819
isn't that because of Frost's book?

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https://youtu.be/9c_t04oIlNI
https://youtu.be/9c_t04oIlNI
https://youtu.be/9c_t04oIlNI

How's reddits theory hold up?

>>87374669
>>87374427
>>87373552
>Major Briggs had already told us the ending of The Return when he said that his biggest fear was that love may not be enough.

>>87374837
>he was an evil spirit who thought it would be fun to possess her
Yes, but why did MIKE go so far to stop him from doing that, even if it meant forcing him to kill Laura?

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His smile

>>87374796

And then what?

Personally I really like the idea this was Laura's dream; her entire life in Texas was a dream taking place in the seconds before her real life ended. And in waking her up, Cooper is inadvertently condemning her to her death and in a way sending her to the lodge.

>>87374769
253
time
and
time
again

>People STILL think it was a happy ending after 48 hours of digesting Coop's utter dismay throughout the final scene followed by those dour ass credits

Wew

>>87374920
>watching any unironic youtube video with "EXPLAINED" at the end of its title

On that note are there any parodies of EXPLAINED videos?

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>>87374409
Moron.

>>87374425
Moron; faggot.

>>87374533
Child or woman; uncertain. Possible underage tranny.

>>87374796
because that's being too literal. she isn't the only one dreaming. the show is tapping into the thematic consequence of dreams and how that echoes throughout real life, fiction, psychology, cinema, etc.

>>87374951
This freaks me the fuck out, like an utter sense of haunting dread of eternal hopelessness

>>87373855
>>87373855
Ye

>>87373001
In retrospect, The Return really was sloppy. I don't know what to say of it, to be honest. I thoroughly enjoy some parts and didn't care much for others.

>>87374928
Because possessing her would cause more pain and suffering. I admit Mike is an enigma but he is still an enigma in the return so I don't see the point.

Why do we see the scene with Laura disappearing in the woods twice?

>>87374878
I dont think she forgot leland. She said "Okay" to cooper like it was a lucky guess but when he said sarah then she was like What the fuck is going on here

>>87373785
I see it as the static lines of a television (it looks more like it when the camera is in motion, like in the intro). The curtains represent a stage.

Whats the song that plays when the woodsman appears

>>87374970
it was happy for Dougie. that's all that matters.

>>87374771
He doesn't abandon Earle's wife, Earle killed her. He went into the Black Lodge to save Annie but failed and was replaced by an evil copy. Failure doesn't equal abandonment, he didn't really abandon or ignore any of those people he just tried and failed to help them.

>>87374769
>>87374831
Does this mean Coop was dreaming that whole sequence from within the Purple room?

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I want to crawl into bed and die after watching that.

"Laura woke up" is a bad theory that takes the punch out of the ending moments. Does not satisfactorily (non-coincidentally) account for why it only occurred when they were outside the house. Does not satisfactorily account for the light anomaly inside the Palmer house. The only thing it accounts for is Carrie hearing a muffled "Laura!".

>>87375013

you probably wouldn't have if they hadn't needed to split it in to hourly chunks

>>87374837
>Now it looks like she can literally stop the most ancient evil who is apparently responsible for all of the pain and suffering in Twin Peaks. This makes her original role as an example of the horror of Bob and the evil in men cheapened because now she is just some fantasy crap.
Look, every Twin Peaks villain is, in the end, upstaged by another one. Leo by Hank, Hank by Renault, all of them by Earle, Earle by BOB, and BOB by Judy. BOB was one of the spirits, not an ultimate evil - that we've always known.

I won't be surprised if after all that buildup Judy is also too easily defeated, and then it turns out that the new TRUE villain is, say, time-traveling Cooper himself, what's with Renault's rant about misery coming to Twin Peaks whenever Coop's around.

>people always discussing the same couple of scenes while ignoring the other thousand of instances that are relevant

>>87375013
it was the e17 cliffhangar. plus they needed to connect the dots between the forest and her being yanked from the Lodge.

>>87374970
>people STILL think it was a bad ending after 48 hours of missing Sarah/Judy getting furious and futilely stabbing at (but not tearing) Laura's photograph, Cooper's newfound focus and drive after resigning to his fate as Laura's eternal guardian, and Cooper regaining his composure in the final moments and asking the question that woke Laura up to the truth

Lad.

Technically since Laura dissapears while being led by coop, she still doesnt end up meeting up with Jacque and Leo, and therefore still doesn't die in that reality. Right?

>>87373020
saved

>>87373970
It just seems so strange that another doppelcoop is created and then Cooper acts really strange in episode 18. But it goes against Coopers character to just let go and go live happily with Janey-E
Maybe i'm just overthinking this shit.

>>87375077

Laura waking up destroyed the reality that was defined by her being Carrie. That explains the lights. It's the electricity of the world short circuiting.

>>87375099
That's right. My guess is the murder of Laura Palmer turned into the disappearance of Laura Palmer, which while not a huge change, would ripple very differently.

>>87374954
there's nothing that happened to even indicate thats how it ends. thats just you being morbid.

>>87375082
I'm more mad that Laura was cheapened not BOB. I always suspected BOB was just an evil but not THE evil. However making Laura into some chosen one type bullshit is so fucking lame. It was way cooler when she was just a victim of evil, it makes her story more relatable and impactful.

>>87373020
This is bait but it's still true. Lynch has never created A multidimensional character.

>>87374994
it's complex but you are REALLY overthinking this anon

>>87373970
I don't think so. Feels more like he's no longer hiding his dark side away and instead keeping it in check, and therefore in balance. Richardcoop is Cooper at his most honest. It could be that we've never seen "Richard" at all.

lol there ain't no Judy

>>87375139

For Carrie to "wake up" implies she has to be Laura. For her to be Laura mean it must be either 1) inside Laura's mind or 2) an alternate reality. For it to be an alternate reality it doesn't make sense for Laura to "wake up", because in this reality it never happened. The only plausible explanation for Carrie realising she's living a lie is that she hears her mother and this reminds her of her real life, thus destroying the facade of the dream and waking her up.

why would Laura have the power to blackout the Palmer house anyway?

she was almost under it's spell during FWWM

>>87375031
http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/music/woodsmen-beethoven-moonlight-sonata/

5 seconds in google

>>87375077
They were in reality. (hence why mrs tremond was played by the actual owner of the palmer house)

The whole ending was a Lynch meta mindfuck a la inland empire. Laura and coop became real and 'real' is just another layer of the dream. Lynch is implying we're living inside a dream. He is recycling the ideas of inland empire in to a more digestible form, similarly to how he essentially re-made lost highway in to mulholland drive.

>Did you feel that Richard, in the finale, was a distinct character of his own, or just Cooper with a different name?

>He was… different. The way it was described to me, he’s just a little harder. So it was another variation, sort of a subtle variation obviously, compared to the other two, but a subtle variation of Cooper. And so that was that last hour, Watching him navigate that.

>>87373001
twinpeak is incoherent trash

>>87375077
>what year is it
>Laura thinks for a minute
>hears her mother's voice
>the light in the house explodes and dies

The house light is the reality winking out of existence. Her mother's voice in her original year (when she was young) also helps snap her out of it.

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Just thinking of the map and how black corn is fear suffering then the black fire on the map is like a primative form of electricity. So when they chant fire walk with me it's actually activating a evil wizard spell that shifts the negative and positive energy. Like an electron, so that's why shit always flips into a shit show when that chant is said.

The fireman is interesting, I am guessing named that because he needs to put out those fires. Needs to stop fire walk with me. But the fire rises brother

>>87375193
Laura.

>>87375175
>It was way cooler when she was just a victim of evil.
She still is. Not sure how she can't be both or why one cheapens the other.

>>87374893
Any sense

>>87375193
watch S1. also, it's not bait but the sad truth.

>>87375228
The fact that the light inside the house went on the fritz, but then everything went black, makes it seem like the Palmer house was the lynch pin of that whole reality.

>>87375332

God I'd never put two and two together with fireman = fire walk with me, etc. Feel like an idiot.

>>87375083
there's a lot to digest. It's pretty reasonable that the most recent thinks that stick in your mind are the things you will discuss.

We've got another 25 years to figure out Wally, Audrey and the guy that swept the bar floor for way too long

>>87375077
>ending moments need a punch for some reason

learn Lynch.

>>87373020
This is a pretty accurate review.

>>87375227
She is Laura. Not Carrie. just like Cooper isn't Richard. She did hear her mothers voice. She screamed because she realised the truth. She isnt dead because Cooper previously saved her but Judy interfered.

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Twin Peaks. Home. At least it was before I fucked everythang up.

>>87373020
My friends on Reddit told me this was accurate.

>>87375077
You're correct but niggas can't cope with Coop fucking everything up lmao

>>87375313
>incoherent trash
Looks like we have a brainlet here, boys

>>87375455
lol

>>87375341
Chosen one crap is stupid. Why is Laura the one? Why does a girl who got tormented by a random bad guy be the one to stop some ancient evil that apparently is summoned by fucking nukes?

>>87375459
Only if following the Fireman's instructions to the letter was fucking up.
Could be equally argued that niggas can't cope with Coop finally making progress.

>that Dougie and Janey-E reunion scene

absolutely kino

>>87375200
why do you think Lynch has been obsessed with Upanishads and vedic and buddhist teachings, anon? Why do you think he is a practitioner of transcendental meditation, whose main aim is to access the infinite consciousness within and help others down the path to their own enlightenment? Lynch engages with these idea in his art all the time.

>We are like the spider. We weave our life and then move along in it. We are like the dreamer who dreams and then lives in the dream. This is true for the entire universe

(Lynch didn't write this)

>>87375090
happyending fags pls go

>>87373564
>He was a jolly cunt in the original.
He got old just like everyone else.

>>87375442

If Cooper saved her what "truth" is she realising?

Something worth noting.

Remember when Sarah is in the store and freaks out over the beef jerky behind the counter, because it wasn't there before or something? Does she exist in both timelines or somethig?

>>87375498
What question of "who is the one?" is most prominent in the Return? "But who is the dreamer?" Laura is the dreamer.

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>>87375498
>Chosen one crap is stupid
Welcome to Twin Peaks, bucko. Endearing stupidity is part of what Twin Peaks is all about.

The ending to Fire Walk With Me is the real ending to Twin Peaks, no matter where they go its where they'll end up/

>>87375567
she's been trapped inside a false reality. what is so hard to understand about this?

>>87375289
So Lynch recycled Lost Highway?

>>87375518
Who wrote it?

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>>87375554
Nope. You're stuck with us forever.

>>87375567
That she has been raped by her own father for years.

>>87375630
Frost

>>87373779
Its a real sadness

>>87375575
wew, good observation. "That wasn't there before."

that being said a lot of inconsistencies magically make sense if you consider alternate universes. It feels a bit too "easy"

>>87375289

There is no fucking 'Richard', when Cooper is at Carries house and the Tremonds house he introduces himself as Special Agent Dale Cooper.

NEW

>>87375681
>>87375681
>>87375681

>>87375518
>We are like the spider. We weave our life and then move along in it.

Stealing from Whitman there.

>>87375575
Yeah i cant really explain much in the sarah scenes.

It seems like theres something there but there is nothing i can link it to other than
>She is the perfect host for judy because she is the most tortured soul in twin peaks
>she likes drinking
>the house is a shithole

>>87375567
>what "truth" is she realising?

The line was spoken twice and you still never listened to it.
WE LIVE INSIDE A DREAM

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>>87374994
based existentialism poster

>>87375575
I think the implication, along with the fact that we get to see the scene of Cooper losing Laura TWO TIMES IN A ROW, is that it's not the first time Cooper and the Giant are trying to change the timeline. Jeffries' scenes changing, along with the recast of Donna might also be the result of "not being exactly the same as before". Judy realizes it and fills Sarah with dread over reality as she remembered it changing.

The mirror to it is Audrey's similar dread to seeing her "story of a girl" altered.

>>87373448
imagine if they did that while 2017 sheryl and 1990 sheryl talk to each other as if they're mother and daughter haha

>>87374994
>it can't be literal and figurative at the same time
I thought you faggots knew Lynch.

>>87375501
what if Judy outplayed the Fireman?

>>87375630
>>87375671
>>87375709
it was actually Aitareya Upanishad who wrote philosophical texts in the 5th and 6th centuries BC.

In many Eastern (and some Western) philosophies a key component of freeing the consciousness is transcending the false material world, and achieving union with a "true", spiritual world.

Lynch's archetypal dream is a metaphor for the nature of every day life. Waking up from such a dream is transcending one's material prison.

>>87375915
That's between the Fireman and Judy. Cooper's just the middleman.

>>87375907
Well I don't think "literal" is very useful in a world of parallel realities, dream states, time loops, etc. she's not *literally* dreaming if it's her entire existence.

>>87375567
Cooper turned the reality into a dream.

She screams, then wakes up.

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>>87373513
>This guy is gradually losing both his sanity and identity, and is trapped in a never-ending inter-dimensional hell.

>>87376202
Pls go.

>>87374793
You might be right