Why?

>>87220631
Effort and cost

>>87220631
wolves/ wargs is the only one that bothers me. The ogre and goblins differences could just be chalked up to differences between individuals within the species/ race

>>87220631
Oh good a lotr thread. I have a question that's sort of off topic, but would an elven blade glow from the presence of any evil, or just orcs? Would Fingolfin's blade glow during his battle with Morgoth, for example?

shouldn't we be more upset by the rather drastic story changes, dialogue changes, tone changes, and omissions

studio trying to avoid being too scary. a lot of parents said LOTR was too much for kids

>>87220631
I was so dissapointed about this shit. I really liked the goblin culture in Fellowship of the Ring, so I was very excited to see more of the goblins in Hobbit.
But then it turned out that they went with a totally new style and design that didn't fit at all into the original triology

>>87220744
its depends on the craftsmen

Orthanc which was retained by Dain under the Lonely Mountain was said to glow from any danger approaching the mountain (which could have easily been a narrative license)

>>87220631
wargs looked objectively superior in the hobbit

>>87220828
The problem is that the style is compltely different.
The Hobbit monsters look like out of a fairy tale

>>87220631 (OP)
>implying all goblins, trolls and wargs should look the same

thats racist anon

>>87220631
Practical effects vs CGI

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>>87220868
From the quality of animation, sure. Technology marches on, after all.
But I would argue that the design of LOTR wargs is much better

>>87220820
I'm asking only because I'm doing a painting of the duel currently and would like to be accurate given what little guidelines there are to go off already. But if it's unclear then maybe I should just make it glow to have better lighting

>>87220868
I like the hyena look over the wolf look personally.

>>87220631

>Differences between mountain trolls and cave trolls

>Difference between Moria golbins and Northern Misty mountains goblins

>Difference between Gundabad Wargs and Isengard Wargs

This really isnt rocket science guys.

>>87221383
wargs are literally supposed to be wolves

>>87220631
You may not have noticed, but the books have a remarkably different tone as well....

>>87222521
Yes, but lets be honest, Hobbit was marketed as LOTR prequel, not as a stand alone fairy tale movie

>oh shit we gotta start filming now
>we have no practical effects assembled because we threw out everything del taco did
>we can throw up a greenscreen, film, and have CG artists adding stuff in at the same time we're working on other scenes
It's that simple. Practicals require more preproduction time because you CANNOT film a scene unless all the effects are ready. And the Hobbit movies did not have enough prepro time.

>>87222415
Nigger, why would they be different? This isn't like a separation of continents influencing evolution.

>>87223160
So they just didn't give a fuck about attention to details? That was what made LOTR so great

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>>87220814
>triology
I fucking hate faggots who say this. you're probably a German speaker, which makes me hate you even more

>>87220868
they look generic as fuck

>le evil angry doggo

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>>87225502
vs

>>87225537
God this looked so terrible how did they get away with it ?

>>87225537
>>87225590
What game?

>>87220631
The hobbit troll is actually way better. Both versions of the warg are shit.

>>87225686
>enemy charging a phalanx
>instead of letting them impale themselves, have dumbass elves jump out in front
This will never not rustle my jimmies.

>>87220631
what is the image trying to say?
that the hobbit was better animated compared to lotr?

>>87225686
>Lets jump to our immediate deaths!

>>87225516
>le evil angry doggo
That's basically what a warg is though

>>87225735
What the fuck is Smaug even doing here?

It's like he's having an autistic fit.

>>87222415
Does Tolkien ever describe these differences or is it just Jackson being a hack?

>>87225778
Yes, and they decided to go a more creative route and make kickass dire hyenas.

>>87220631

I see it as the Hobbit being an inherently more whimsical, cartoony and cheerful story than the epic that is Lord of the Rings. It is appropriate. Then again, the Hobbit adaptions are not that great and touches Sauron too much.

>>87225641
I get the feeling that compression makes this one look a lot worse than it should

>>87220631

Wargs were actually a slight improvement in Hobbit desu. Actually resembled wolves instead of a weird fuckin bear/cat thing.

>>87225814
oh oh no no no no uuuuuhhhh...

>>87225842
There's a difference between wild trolls and Sauron's Olog-hai that he bred to withstand sunlight.

>>87225847
The LOTR wargs look like giant pugs with pubes glued on. The Hobbit version looks shitty in its own right too. Jackson should have made them look a lot more like wolves

>>87225842

Yeah, he specifically mentions that the Hobbit varieties look like obvious CGI shit.

>>87220744

>Glowing swords
>That you won't see because they are in a scabbard most of the time, so you wont see it glowing at all.
>It also glows so that Goblins find you faster!

>>87225967
>implying LOTR trolls don't look like obvious CGI shit
Come on now, anon.

Is the hobbit worth watching? Theatrical vs. director (did they even do a directors cut)?

Condensed fan edit of all 3 in a 3 hour runtime?

I never read the book but I'm fairly certain it's a a short read, I've got no idea how they got like 10 hours of material out of it.

>>87225814
I can't remember this in the book...

>>87226026
It's all shit. Don't bother

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>>87225814
I will never understand how this shit was allowed in the film or why this scene was even written.

>>87226026
No the movies suck. Book is a short but fun read.

>>87226026
The final film covers like 10 fucking pages of the book.

>>87220631
holy fuck that hobbit wolf looks like its from the hobbit video game for the gamecube

>>87226026

They included material from other books/extras including, I think, material that Tolkien never finished.

>>87226002

Fellowship of the Ring came out in 2002 and the CGI looked great back then. Back in those days people hadn't even seen enough effects of that kind to instantly recognize them as fake, their brains were too busy being blown away.

The fact that the Hobbit which came out more than a decade later looks strictly worse is fucking inexplicable.

>>87222415
the only differences Tolkien really specifies are Uruks being the largest orks, Uruk-hai being specifically half orc half men from Isengard and the only type of trolls he outlines are hill trolls (there's no cave troll in Moria or mention of one) and the troll chieftains (Olog-Hai). Tolkien's Goblins aren't twisted mutants with shit weapons, they are fairly big and well armoured. Wargs are literally giant wolves, and if you didn't realise Isengard's wargs are from the misty mountains along with retinues of goblins.

I think the main problem with the trolls and goblins for The Hobbit is that they had to humanize them whereas they were more or less just dumb monsters in LotR. Can you imagine the cave troll from Fellowship being Tom, Bert, and William?

>>87226275
Tolkien's goblins are just orcs. Also Olog-Hai are mentioned in the appendices.

>>87226341
I understand the Trolls but there was no reason to humanize the goblins.

>>87226341
apparently the goblins and trolls were del toro concepts which makes sense. shame the fat fuck couldn't get his act together.

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>>87226275
>there's no cave troll in Moria or mention of one
Incorrect

>>87226434
>back out because of laziness
>Jackson takes all the blame and basically ruined his legacy

why isn't Del Toro blacklisted?

>>87226492
Jackson fucked up as much as Del Toro. There's only so much blame you can place on pre-production.

>>87225641
>wyvern smaug with the voice of a sissy fag
>also that 20 minute scene with him and the dwarf to just make that shitty golden statue

>>87226550
I dunno fan
making up a trilogy as you're filmming it is pretty hard desu
the movies aren't absolutely terrible too like the prequels, like the first two chapters in the movie version are great except for thorin being an asshole all the time in the movie

>>87226616
>making up a trilogy as you're filmming it
>trilogy
There's your problem

>>87225847

Hobbit wargs are much better looking.

>>87225686
how the orcs of gundabag had better armor than orcs from mordor?

>>87226651
They look way too angular, making them cartoony.

>>87226647
it was the studio fault not his desu

>>87224126
implying anything evolved in middle earth and wasnt literally creationismed at varying degrees

>>87226692

I thought that actually fit the aesthetic of the film desu.

>>87224126
Evolution isn't a thing in LOTR you mong.

>>87224126

Hobbits are just men that evolved to be short, tolkien described goblins as orcs that evolved to live in caves and became smaller and more bow-legged.

>>87224183
>So they just didn't give a fuck about attention to details?
Jackson didn't have the time. The studio still wanted things to run according to the schedule Del Toro had set up, but Jackson had to start completely fresh. When he made LOTR, he had a massive amount of pre-production time and tricked New Line into giving him more shooting time by lying about how many reshoots would be required. Those movies were essentially in production for 5 or six years straight, with half of that before Fellowship was even released.

>>87226783
didn't hobbits evolve from manlets?

>>87226854
Tolkien never specifies their genealogical roots

>>87224183
>So they just didn't give a fuck about attention to details?
The studio didn't. Once Jackson came on board he asked for more time to plan everything out but the studio said fuck you, and we got what we got.

>>87220631
Jackson's production team was on a tight budget, so they decided using CGI was a cheaper and inexpensive option to produce the film.

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>>87226737
>>87226794
Motherfucker, that was the point I was making. Why would their location affect their physiology?

>>87227048
>>87226783

>>87227048
Well, an Olog-Hai is literally a different kind of troll.

>>87220631
The difference in Trolls ain't even bother me because they are of different races.

>>87226915
Wrong, he said they were probably a smaller race of men.

>>87227103
It's just a stronger sub-specie, like uruk from basics orcs.

>>87227383
That's not specific genealogy

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>>87225686
I'm pretty confident that a phalanx of dwarves could destroy an army of orcs.

>>87224126
>implying a universe where entire races were created with magic needs evolution to influence regional differences within like species.

>>87225641
I don't remember it looking this bad on the bluray.

>>87225737
>>87225776
>>87227611
>implying Tolkien Elve's pride would allow them to take back seat to those greedy meddling dwarves.

Tactically, it's fucking retarded to leap ahead of your shield wall. Lore-wise though, it makes some sense.

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>>87225686

Disgusting. It's like the director had never played a Total War title in his life.

>>87220631
2spooky4kids
even the book was for kids. LOTR was supposed to be the mature version.

>>87227935
Riddles in the dark definitely should've been a lot spookier though.

>>87226026
>I never read the book but I'm fairly certain it's a a short read, I've got no idea how they got like 10 hours of material out of it.
It is, should only take a day or so to finish. If you're interested in LotR or just ME in general you really owe it to yourself to read the books before watching the movies. They really are incomparable in terms of scope and quality.

>>87225814
I never get why this is posted. What's so bad about it? The CG?

>>87226397
This, in the Tolkienverse the only difference between goblins and orcs is the name.

>>87225537
what ps2 game is this

>>87225537
KINO
I
N
O
if you dont like this youve been filtered

The hobbit has a lot of humor in it and the film tried to replicate that aesthetic. They really fucked up though. They made the thing look way too cartoony.

>>87226067
$$$

>>87225686
notice how everything is bloomy and blurry because they have to remove the seperation lines between live footage and CGI

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>>87226067
>>87228751
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQkygZdZ_Vk

They literally were making it up as they went along. It hurts.

>>87220771
It kinda was, I remember being scared shitless of orcs and the balrog but my dad would tease me telling me that aragorn wasn't scared so I would put a brave face and pretend I wasn't scared.
God damn I love this movies.

>>87225842
actually in Middle Earth, Orc is just another word for Goblin.

>>87221226
Just make your own piece of lore explaining it.

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>>87228902
this, they were basically making the films on borrowed time because Warner Bros would rather spend more money to rush out a piece of shit than giving them the time they needed for pre-production and spending less money in the long run. The Lord of the Rings films had a budget of like $90 million each. The Hobbit trilogy cost $700 million, with marketing and shit not even included in that. LOTR also had like 4 years for pre-production (I think they started working on the films in 1997 and finished filming the entire trilogy (aside from pick-ups throughout the next 2 years) before Fellowship was even released. The Hobbit was so fucking rushed when they told Jackson to turn 2 films into 3 halfway through production (so he was directing the 3 films back to back, rewriting 1 film, and writing a third film from scratch all at the same time) that the third film was literally released unfinished. Remember the blue balls we all got from Beorn arriving at the battle and then it cutting away like 2 seconds later? That was because Weta literally didn't have enough time to animate the full sequence, just the beginning. That's why it's so abrupt.
>pic related
2011 to 2014, but people think Jackson was just phoning it in the entire time and didn't care when in reality WB threatened to get Bret Ratner to direct the films after Del Taco left and so Jackson took the job basically to prevent WB raping The Hobbit beyond recognition. I don't like a lot of the decisions Jackson made, but if you watch the appendices for The Hobbit films you can tell that a lot of the terrible ones (overuse of CGI, inclusion of Tauriel/Legolas, 3 films instead of 2, etc.) were all because they were pretty much the only decisions he could make that would allow the films to come out in time.

t. just watched the appendices for all 3 Hobbit films back-to-back since they're better than the actual movies.

>>87230291
>tfw Jackson unJUSTed himself and went from fat neckbeard to handsome nerd after LOTR only for WB to reverse that and age him 20 years as well by putting so much stress on him

wasn't Jackson in the hospital for a stomach ulcer during the 6 months or whatever stupid amount of time they had for pre-production because of how much stress he was under? Yeah, I think that's what the woman is referring to in the Problem With The Battle of the Five Armies video linked above when she said "then Peter got sick"

The sad thing about this is that Warner Bros didn't learn their lesson at all. They're doing basically the same shit they did to Jackson/The Hobbit but this time to Snyder/the DCEU. And this is coming from someone who doesn't care about those movies at all.

>>87230420
Lol you're right Guillermo

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*blocks your path*

>>87229165
Yeah but that's part of the experience of being a kid, you see awesome stuff and get scared by it, but then you overcome it and enjoy it. I think it's really the only way to keep the entire society from being a bunch of pussies in a world where war and plagues aren't as common.

>>87226492
>Why isn't Del Taco blacklisted?
Oh but anon he made several respectable movies over a decade ago

>>87220744
Possibly? His sword was Ringil, and it was made at the same time as orcrist, Glamdring, and Sting, which all glowed in the presence of orcs and goblins. Tolkein never specified if this was a specific thing to only these weapons, or all elven weapons of that time, or if the blades would react to morgoth, a fallen god, as well.
Artistic-license wise, I think it would be okay to make it glow.

>>87225686
that white smoke when the orcs arrive

>>87230619
I know where I'm stabbing my rusty spear at ;)