You’ll give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will

Zack just wanted to create a kino cinematic universe. But DC only cared for money.

>>86884095
BvS proved that he should spend his talent elsewhere. Capeshit audience have been too conditioned in the quipshit template by now to know better. They'll never accept him, especially not when Disney is ruthless as fuck in smear campaigns.

>>86884095
People will one day look back and appreciate what he tried to do

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I love Snyder, but I do kind of miss all the dumb stuff from the comics.

Which is why I like WB's idea of making spin-offs outside continuity.

Let Zack make his kînò and have some fun shit on the side.

>>86884423
Am I the only guy who's cool with Scott Snyder? The only reason I wouldn't like Mr. J being leather face is that I wouldn't be able to see the actor emote. In a funnybook it's fine.

>>86884674
Not sure why you're talking about Scott, but yes, he's cool.
Court of Owls was amazing and right now DC Metal seems like it's going to be goofy and fun.

Although sometimes he pulls some incredibly stupid shit.
Like Duke or the recent Alfred origin retcon.

>>86884805
>Not sure why you're talking about Scott
You said dumb stuff from the comics. Everyone with an opinion calls Scotty dumb.

>>86884095
Who is this guy, exactly?

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>WB kills Snyder's daughter so they can replace him with literal rapist to get those sweet Avengers dollars

Nice going WB

>>86885055
The only director who did anything interesting with Superman. The only director who did anything interesting with Batman. Don't get triggered. Other directors did cool things with Joker.

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>>86885106
This.

As much fun as it is to meme about him, I unironically consider him to be the Kubrick of our generation. In a time where corporations kill creativity, Snyder has found a way to tell unique, thought-provoking narratives full of grand mythological imagery and sharp satire. He could've made a straightforward Batman/Superman film, but instead he perfectly captured the human condition c. 2016 and decades from now BvS will be considered the first true post-modern superhero movie.

>>86884095
You know what genre would be perfect for Snyder? Westerns. In westerns he can go full violence/sex mode and kill off major characters without a million manchildren crying about their precious comic books for kids.

He overestimated the audiences with BvS. I think there was even an article where WB were concerned maybe the film was a bit too heavy for audience expectations of quick McDonald's like entertainment. Maybe he can come back to the genre when it's more welcoming to author-driven films?

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>>86886987

>>86887113
Superhero films are the Western of the 21st century. Unfortunately for him, audiences wanted Stagecoach 5 and He gave us The Searchers before anyone was ready.

>>86886987
>BvS will be considered the first true post-modern superhero movie.

What about Birdman?

>tfw your movie is so bad the studio has to kill your daughter and hire a guy who made movies for your rival
Then again, it's not much of a rivalry when most of the people hate your movies.

>>86887345
The DC/Marvel meme is probably one of my favorite. I'll never know if you nerds really get so buttblasted about it or if you're all just memeing.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOj44mmUqrU
Does anyone know who is this interviewer?

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>>86887512
>mfw can enjoy movies without being an insufferable faggot about it and actually be able to articulate why I like something rather than meme

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>>86887459
You ok Joss? Haven't seen you tweet in a while, you're usually so active

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Here's some interview kino boys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkklBeLfZxo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9_M8F7Bpl8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sc8BOLxTf8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwDLnIsOwW8

http://www.cinemareview.com/production.asp?prodid=20381

I mean jesus christ, the man's daughter commited suicide, it's almost worse than if she just died, at least on him.

can we forgive the man for a shitty BVS movie now?

i know it's both BATMAN and SUPERMAN, but he's probably emotionally crippled for life any chance we can DROP IT now?

>>86887412
Inarritu is too dishonest and pretentious to be considered post-modern
>DUDE SUPERHEROES ARE FASCIST LMAO
>FUCK WHITE GUYS, RIGHT GUYS?
>PLEASE LOVE ME ZIZEK, YOU LIKE MI AMIGOS QURAN AND DEL TACO WHY WON'T YOU ANALIZE MY FILMS

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>>86887412
I feel like Birdman is self aware, examining the relationship between art and commerce through the veil of superhero movies, while Batman v Superman is about our very culture: post 9/11 trauma, misinformation, senseless violence based on arbitrary differences, truth, justice, public opinion, divinity or lack of, and the very role of power whether physical, intellectual, or governmental and its impact on the people beneath those with said power.

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>>86887686
>I make the movies for myself
>I don't change my vision based on criticism
>I made an honest film about Superman which is ironic
>You can't try to please everyone else if you can't please yourself

Fucking based. The marks of an auteur. The moment he becomes a reflection of critics and not his own force of nature he'll cease to be for me. He's also very honest about what people think about his films. He's not delusional. He completely knows why people hate him but he knows that hate doesn't necessarily mean the fault is on his end. And it's not. It's on the end of those approaching his films without accepting them on HIS terms. It must be extremely frustrating wanting to convey a perspective but critics refusing to enter that perspective.

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>>86887686
>Uses The Dark Knight Returns Superman as a way to know what not to do with him
And people say he doesn't understand the character

>>86885099
Marvel-era Joss
>calls xirself a feminist
>hangs out with Anita
>chubby
>cuck

Joss joins the DChad extended kinoverse
>gets fit
>retroactively fucks a bunch of hot young actresses
>gets denounced by SJW media and excomulgated from the Churck of feminism

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>>86887728
>forgive
For what?
For bringing the iconic comic imagery of Frank Miller and Alex Ross to life?
For portraying Superman and Batman as flawed but relatable characters instead of perfect Gary Stu's like every other capeshit?
For making a Superman movie that's actually about Truth, Justice and the American Way... and daring to ask if those ideals are compatible with a cynical post 9/11 society?

I could not thank the man enough

>>86887728
>can we forgive the man

we can but his daughter won't

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>>86887945

You guys do know its not funny to ironically like Snyder if there is no one to play off of.

>>86887865
>without accepting them on HIS terms

which is fine, really, if he ade original films. but he takes characters people love and twists them into something unrecognizable. I do like that Snyder has an individualism about himself, but when i buy my daughter superman T-shirts thus making her a social pariah until her teens, I'd like it to be for someone better than a hunking black hole of personality, you know?

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>>86887985
>ironically

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>>86887985
at least shitpost if you're not gonna contribute faggot

>>86888005
>, I'd like it to be for someone better than a hunking black hole of personality, you know?
this. I wouldn't mind if they mad him Injustice superman. Just give him a personality.

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>>86888005
>but he takes characters people love and twists them into something unrecognizable.
Are we talking about Superman here? The Superman that has been repeatedly portrayed exactly as Zack portrayed him in Man of Steel?

What you're reading to the left isn't the words of Snyder. It's the word of legendary Alex Ross. Sounds really similar don't they?

>>86888019
i contributed my opinion
>>86888062
>We have to make Superman a christ figure to make him interesting
Thats how you detect shitty writers

>>86887728
After WW cucked a movie with Spiderman and Iron Man? They won't let it go, these people are fighting for their jobs here

>>86888062
Alex Ross makes good covers, and ONLY covers. he's not a good comic artist or an expert on superman. I'M an expert on superman

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>>86888137
Oh shut the fuck up. Can't even tell if you're ironic anymore.

>>86888005
See I never get this criticism. But I've been consistently reading comics since I was 7 years old. There isn't a definitive Superman or Batman anymore because writers and artists have various interpretations of him.
If you have not read Superman since the early 70s or only seen the children's cartoons, then yes, Snyder's Superman isn't familiar.
But Snyder knows Donner captured Superman 1938-1978 perfectly in his films. Man of Steel is about everything that followed, John Byrne, Dan Jurgens, Grant Morrison, Mark Waid, Paul Dini, It's A Bird... by Steven T Seagle.

And you can hate Superman for not having a personality, but just because he isn't sarcastic doesn't mean he isn't a good person. Snyder's sense of morality shines in a black sea of revenge fantasies marketed to children by cynical corporations. If kids tease your daughter for wearing a Superman shirt, they're bad kids and their opinion shouldn't matter. You're also a colossal faggot for caring so much.

>knowing what I know about human nature, did I truly believe they would accept what I was giving them?
Oh my getting very mopey there Sny- wait what??

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>>86888127
>Paul Dini
>a shitty writer
If this isn't bait you seriously need to kill yourself because your existence is actually causing all the other 7 billion people to suffer more than they should

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>>86888216
wrong panel

>>86884095
This, but unironically.

>>86888190
Yes there is a definitive Superman , Batman, and Spider-man. There might be else worlds and re imaginings but the core of the characters stay intact. A good example is like current Cyclops (r.i.p) who goes to more extreme levels but keeps the ideals of his mentor.

>>86885099
>>86887917
Joss Whedon was infused with the Speedforce after joining DC and went back in time to (((rape))) young actresses. It's the only explanation.

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>Zack Snyder
>Alex Ross
>Scott Snyder
>Bruce Timm
Who else do legbeards hate?

>>86888263
let me rephrase that. Any writer who thinks Superman has no flaws and only writes him as a christ figure are shit
>>86888366
Bruce timm and Ross are alright. Scott doesn
t seem bad really. Zack is garbage.

>>86888190
No, there is a definitive Batman and a definitive Superman, this argument is bullshit.
>>86888155
I'm not ironic bitch, let me explain this to you.


So you have origins era heroes, where superman was a dumb strongman and batman was a...i don't really know what the fuck he was. Over the years these heroes changed into what most people know as the concrete characters of superman and batman. There are some things that are universal to batman. batman doesn't use guns-original batman did, but this was before he became the modern character we love. batman doesn't kill-he killed shitloads of people, but he's been around since the 30s, when COMICS WERE NOT AS SERIOUS. People thought comics were stupid trash and they treated the comic characters the same way, the ORIGINAL batman is not the "REAL" batman. Just because he came FIRST, doesn't mean he's the AUTHENTIC version.

It's pretty much the same with Superman. The definitive version of Superman, the one that MATTERS, is-Superman is a man who shows the world absolute power doesn't corrupt, and he does it with a smile. And that's not a Christopher Revee invention, dipshits. He does this to put people at ease since he's a God who can kill them at any time, he does it because sometimes people need a smile.

Read shit like For the Man Who Has Everything, What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorow, All Star Superman, Red Son, and so on and tell me Superman is not a great character-fuck you.

And yes, I actually got laid at some point, so can you, the dream lives on.

>>86888366
What's a legbeard?

>>86888487
Leave before the Snyderfags go copy and paste a reddit essay

>>86884166
Whatever he decides to do moving forward, he's got a lifelong fan in me.

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>>86888487
Let's humor the idea that there is a "definitive" Superman (which is dumb since definitive completely depends on what comics/films you were exposed to), we're still given a DCEU Superman that is clearly in line with what comics have established about Superman. There are Ross comics that are extremely similar to Snyder's yet nobody is gouging their eyes out calling for Ross' head for daring to defy Superman in any other way than the "established" way.

Reeves Superman was that. Do we need more of that? Maybe it's time to consider Superman through a different lens? Superman Returns tried the Reeves thing again but failed at it since it's simply too boring for mass audience.

Superman IS a great character. But he has been depicted many ways and it's up to each and every one which interpretation they prefer. Atleast Snyder did the smart thing and twisted The Dark Knight Returns on its head and gave it a far more sensible villain-hero dynamic than the one in the comics.

Also, I don't believe Superman has ever been portrayed as absolute all-powerful being in cinema. BvS flirts with the idea but ultimately leaves up to the audience to if he ever is all-powerful or not. Been a while since I saw the Reeves films but he was never given such a context there as far as I can recall.

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>>86887356
It's not really a Marvel vs. DC thing. It's more an actual comics fanbase vs. a herd mentality composed of Disney casuals, fanboys, and pretend nerds, possibly with some ass-blasted muzzies and honest-to-god shills thrown in for good measure.

>>86888740
Well said, fellow DChad.

>>86888740
>Superman is like, a stupid character, he can do
anything, right? RHIIIIGHT?

Look, I know his daughter died, and trust me, if anyone here can even try to empathize with that pain it's me, I would probably kill myself if I lost Evie but that doesn't magically make his work regarding Superman good.

I don't hate Zack Snyder, I'm just saying his Superman makes me vomit

>>86888929
Man you just went full retard. It's ok to dislike something I don't mind I'm just explaining why not everybody shares your opinion.

>>86888978
And I'm explaining why people who don't share my opinion are wrong, what's the problem?

>>86888582
Like a tumblr landwhale who doesn't shave their legs.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59g5R8rwqpY

>>86888487
>he wasn't being ironic
>he thinks he just made a cohesive argument
>"dude I'm gonna say I had sex because I'm that insecure"
This is just sad to be quite honest

>>86889134
Just so cool...even though they're supposed to be ridiculously-looking schmucks

>>86889157
It's really uncool of you to prey on my insecurity by pointing out I pointed out I had sex, man.

You were a bully in high school, weren't you?

>>86888929
>>86889011
These posts were made by a DChad strawmanning right? There's no way someone sincerely acts this cunty while saying nothing at all.

>>86888929
It concerns me that someone can be this much of a sperg about capeshit and at the same time be raising a daughter (while revealing her name on fucking 4chan of all sites)

>>86889241
You think that because you never met me, bro.

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>>86888282
>but the core of the characters stay intact
Then there's nothing wrong with Snyder's depictions of these characters. In the 75+ years of their existence, almost everything we see on screen has already happened in the comics or other media. If you disagree, you simply haven't read enough.

>>86889260
OOOh, my God, you have a first name, what ever will you do, jerk off to i-I made a mistake.

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Holy shit this fucking shot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_IemarLt5c

>>86889457
That's so fucking cool.

>>86884166
Unironically this, he should be doing a Blood Meridian adaptation with Cormac script and leave this artisitc wasteland we call capeshit to the likes of the Russos

>>86889587
Even Snyder fans don't want him to do anything original. If he's not adapting comics or making remakes, he's adapting plays from a writer he has no chance of understanding!

>>86889652
MoS and BvS both are original stories. Why are you so upset?

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>>86889524
It got cut out of the scene on YouTube but before Sweet Pea sits down, there is another girl applying makeup who gets up to let her sit with Rocket. At first, we only see her back in the foreground and her face in the reflection, but when she rises out of her chair she turns around so that we can see her face, which matches the face of the girl in the reflection. That means based Snyder hired identical twins for the very purpose of subtly selling the illusion.
We don't deserve him.

>make a movie about a symbol of hope and heroism
>main thesis of the movie is that heroism is always more destructive than constructive and hopelessness is the way to go

really makes you think

>>86889652
Snyder scholar checking in
I love Sucker Punch and I am excited to see The Last Photograph

>>86889652
Blood Meridian is not a play, it's a book, brainlet

>>86889709
>really makes you think
>except he didn't think, otherwise he wouldn't completely misread the subtext of the film and smugly announce it for the world to see

>>86889721
if it's cormac mccarthy, it's a play.

unfortunately. his books are plays and his plays are plays

>>86889755
>completely ignoring what actually happens in the movie because there's an inspiring quote in the trailer

lex luthor is objectively the hero of bvs

>>86889792
Meh I've seen better backpedalling than that to be honest with you family

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>>86889709
>really makes you think
I wish it did but in your case it probably didn't.

Read the last four paragraphs.

>>86889849
I did what I could senpai. It's cormac mccarthy, who the fuck reads that guy?

>>86889860
This is the "curtains are blue" of film analysis.

>>86889866
Non plebs basically

>>86889900
>basic character motivations aren't there because I say so and refuse to accept the overwhelming amount of evidence against me
Like talking to a brick wall.

>>86889961
I...I tried. Honest I did. It's his fault he couldn't hold my attention! I sat through waiting for godot, i'm a pro at wasting my timee!

>>86889860
>people think superman is a meanie so he does a good goody thing so they stop thinking he's a meanie

top kek, brilliant observation and incredibly deep thoughts, that one semester of philosophy 101 payed off in analyzing capeshit

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How can one capeshit movie trigger so many people?

>>86886987

If you unironically think he is the Kubrick of our generation , you should just KYS.

>>86890032
well it's not some meaningless shit like captain america or iron man, it's batman and superman. i basically AM batman, i thake it seriously

>>86890028
The sad part is that I had to explain it to you.

>>86890032

How can one person misunderstand a movie so badly?

>>86889900
Nice get but beyond 3 sets of dubs you brought nothing to this discussion.
"You're just imagining that bro" is the weakest form of deflection, you know deep down you can't refute these arguments because unlike any negative criticism pointed they can be backed up with examples from the visuals, dialogue, and interviews with members of the production... and all you have are your meme insults from a can.
It is all intentional, there is depth to this film, you didn't see it because you weren't looking, and now you're embarrassed because you got outsmarted by a mainstream superhero movie. It's ok to be wrong.
>dude Martha lmao
>not muh xxxxx
>you say its deep but its not
>it's bad because its bad
Can we get some fresh criticism in these threads? It's getting boring seeing Zack-bashers BTFO over and over again.

>>86889991
The "Martha" scene is something that seems taken straight out of a film school short. The analysis treats something that beats you over the head with its point as something that's incredibly subtle and complex. It's laughable.

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>>86890032
I knew this shit when it was nominated with Razzies alongside that Hillary documentary. It was marked by leftists.

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>>86889457
“Was that sexist, or did it just seem sexist?” That was the basic idea of the conversation that my friends and I had as we left the movie theater in the spring of 2011. We had just borne witness to Suckerpunch, Zack Snyder’s gruesome orgy of CGI blood-spurts and thunderous group-grunts. The movie had been a sensory experience, every frame made to look like a Frank Frazetta painting or a funeral doom album cover. And we were buzzing from it, having fun recounting all the oh-shit decapitations and inexplicable mutant attackers and portentous catchphrases. But as soon as the buzz wore off—and it wore off pretty quickly—we had to ask ourselves if this was all supposed to be some sort of sly Starship Troopers-esque comment on the patriarchy or whether it really was as fucked up as it appeared. And it probably was that fucked up.

>>86890113
>soros
DING DING DING

>>86884095

In 2008 Nolan proved CBMs can be more than fun schlock.

Then in 2016 Zack Snyder proved that mediocre directors like him can't easily replicate it.

>>86890136
>Unsurprisingly, the debate about Sucker Punch’s sexual politics has been framed almost exclusively as matter of whether or not the film is ‘empowering’. We are told that the film “may look like empowerment on the surface”, or that it “pretends that [it] is really a feminist fable of empowerment”. And for almost all commentators the response has been largely the same: “Snyder’s efforts to have you believe this is some kind of empowering, riot-grrls-together redemption story would be more convincing if the cameras didn’t slather quite as droolingly whenever the women, clad in fishnets and schoolgirl outfits, come into view”, writes the The Telegraph; while according to Variety, the film is "misleadingly positioned as female empowerment despite clearly having been hatched as fantasy fodder for 13-year-old guys".

>However, what makes the film so interesting and valuable is that it too is obsessed with this exact quandary. The thrust of my argument is that the film is not ‘empowering’, and that this - genuinely - is precisely its point. Instead, it is feminist in a different way - in something like the way that, for example, many classic melodramas (say, Max Opuls’ heartbreaking Letter From an Unknown Woman) are feminist, or indeed - dare I say it - classic pieces of feminist film theory like Laura Mulvey’s 'Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema'. That is to say: it is a deeply pessimistic analysis of female oppression, primarily concerned not to find strong, positive role models, but rather to draw attention to what it sees as intractable problems within gender relations and gender representations. It is strange and infuriating - though perhaps not surprising - that critics haven’t been able to see that the very complaints they have made about the film are being made tenfold by the film itself, and that the core of the movie lies in those odd transitions from dancing to fighting.

http://www.alternatetakes.co.uk/?2011,5,299

>>86884166
Accurate. It's a shame but reality
At least Snyder got to make his $300m epic though
Unfortunately he'll probably never get another budget nearly that high again outside of capeshit

>>86890112
The Martha scene plays a pivotal role in that

A, Superman is not a destructive alien. At that point he's just a vulnerable guy just trying to do the right thing. Look how it mirrors Thomas Wayne.

B. Batman realizing that he is in fact not trying to rid the world of future Joe Chills but is becoming one

C. It gives him a chance of saving Martha and thus being able to accept and heal his trauma and guilt

>>86890104
You're misunderstanding my point. I'm not trying to refute anything from the linked analysis because most of it is true to a degree. What I meant when I referred to it as "the curtains are blue of film analysis" is that it's essentially empty. The observations don't provide anything besides stuff you would have gotten out of the movie after a single screening. The themes of BvS are overtly obvious, yet the analysis treats them as if they were subtle gems requiring a lot of attention and thought to notice. The movie makes the intended character motivations clear.

When I said earlier that the points made in the analysis are mostly true, I was sort of lying. The presented themes and character motivations are the ones that were most likely intended by Zach Snyder. The issue is with the execution. Snyder, using the tools of cinema like cinematography and music, frames those themes in a very unconvincing and sometimes even contradictory manner.

>>86890236
It's hilarious just how misunderstood this film is. It is geniunely feminist in that girls in captivity are escaping to their power fantasies to justify their shitty existence. In the real world they're weak and submissive while in their fantasy worlds they are powerful and beautiful. And then it ends with Blunt dying in her power fantasy, on her own terms. But it never misleads us on what is power fantasy and what is cold harsh reality.

Seems like critics can't cope with reality.

>>86890323
>Snyder, using the tools of cinema like cinematography and music, frames those themes in a very unconvincing
Wrong

>even contradictory manner.
Give examples

We've already given you example of how the frame is a vital part of the storytelling. Now it's your turn to say why we're wrong.

>>86890379

The most heroic moment in MoS is accompanied by massive amounts of death and destruction. Before you go "but this is what a real fight between superheroes in a city would look like", you have to remember that you can explain a lot of things with the internal logic of the plot because it's created by Zach Snyder, it's not real life, he decides what happens next in the movie and so he created the framework for Clark's heroic moment. He chose death and suffering intentionally.

Also
>wrong

You asked for legitimate criticism and now you're acting like a baby once you're presented with it. Don't accuse other people of "just negating everything" when that seems to be your main tactic when confronted with differing opinions.

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>>86890467
The most heroic moment? I'd argue that Snyder portrayed heroism as necessary even if it's dark and bloodied. The film portrays Superman as a hero. He most definitely is one. But he's one that realizes that heroism isn't entirely white and black. The film does not deal in absolutes. It asks the question "How far is Superman willing to go to be a hero?" and it shows that even actions that are wrong are in the context it's presented in not. But since he's a hero he must navigate these difficulties and not shun them as a sheltered baby.

MoS is the baby coming to terms with the real world. His birth, both on a literal and metaphorical level of accepting what it means to be a hero. It's not pretty but it's necessary.

Another similar film Avengers chose not to portray death of an alien army. What followed was to me the most dishonest and manipulative storytelling possible. Show us what conflict means. It's not without casualties. In Avengers the millions in New York were magically teleported away from the bloodthirsty aliens. Ok? Why should I care then? The filmmakers are clearly not willing to deal in hard stakes. It's all manufactured silly garbage.

>>86890586
I guess it all boggles down to our differences in the way interpret cinema. To me, the third act of MoS isn't a hero going to extreme measures to save Earth. It's a brawl between multiple aggressors, that ends with an undeserved emotional climax.

>>86890660
Sure if that's how you want to see it fair enough. I see it as the film not hesitating on showing us what a true conflict between two demigods would look like. They could've taken the Avengers approach of having Metropolis citizens teleported away but that takes away the honesty of conflict. I feel like it has only become worse after MoS' "destruction backlash" since now blockbuster filmmakers are more afraid than ever to honestly portray conflict. Show me the dead. Show me the suffering. Don't sell me WW2 propaganda. Heroism is more valuable in a world where true evil and suffering also exists.

>>86890748
I just don't see how a battle between two demigods filled with suffering and death can also be heroic. Maybe your definition of heroism is different but mine focuses on saving life, not ending it. Don't get me wrong, I like some death and suffering in my hero movies as well. Kook at something like "Saving Private Ryan", it's full of suffering and death but the ultimate point is always saving the life. That point becomes lost to me in the third act of MoS.

>>86890351

Critics can cope with reality just fine. Snyderfags just delude themselves into thinking it's art.

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Five stages of Brainlet Grief
>Dude it's so stupid and meaningless lmao Granny's Peach Tea WTF so random
Told the film explores a lot of relevant themes, they react with Total Denial
>Dude you're delusional for thinking it's that deep, look at Zack Snyder he has big muscles how can he be smart!!! Let's see some proof
Shown meaningful screenshots from the film without commentary or context, they skittishly rush to conclusions
>Dude it's not subtle or that complex like woah SuperJesus that's seriously it? Lma-
Is explained the true role of the imagery within the narrative, which is not about how Superman is a kind of deity but is really about the way people desperately seek validation for their beliefs in modern society, BTFO and Butthurt
>OK well if Snyder meant all that, he could've gotten the message across more clearly, he's a bad storyteller since most people couldn't get it
5. Self-reflection and Acceptance
>T-t-teach me DChads...

>>86890809
Is heroism always beautiful? Is ugly heroism less valuable? Maybe true heroism is being able to navigate these difficult shades of grey choices? Snyder is very honest about his Superman. Ok he can save people. Saving people is easy. They showed that. But how far is he willing to go to save people? Is there a point where saving a person is simply not worth the cost? Superman could've let Zod burn those people and his guilt would be clear. The blood was on Zod's hands, not his. But he chooses to intervene because true heroism is being able to do what is wrong to avoid and even greater wrong while also looking past your ego.

Killing Zod hurts Superman. Film mirrors that with the pain of being born. But Snyder portrays this pain as a necessary aspect of Superman becoming a true hero. Not just one that deals in absolutes but can navigate the world where right and wrong aren't defined in white and black.

>>86890586

Because the Avengers is never meant to be that serious. It's like asking zombieland or Shaun of the dead to show how serious it can be in a post apocalyptic shithole.

It's not manipulative or dishonest filmmaking , it's your inability to understand what each film is aspiring to be.

>>86888127

He'snot interesting because he's a Christ figure. He's interesting because of his humanity

>>86891032
If Snyder is judged by Marvel standards, why should the reverse not apply to Marvel films? Goes to show how quickly those films fall apart when you approach them as geniune stories. Not even 90's Disney cartoons were that cowardly to portray conflict.

>>86891123

>as genuine

I didn't realize being gritty and dark is what counts as genuine stories. I guess Shaun of the dead or any comedy or satire is no longer genuine.

So your answer to someone being unfair in their criticism is to do the same thing yourself. The absolute stupidity in your logic is baffling.

>>86891289
Is Avengers comedy and satire? Iron Man 1 was semi-serious and Avengers is a sequel to that.

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>>86890467
You have not explained why any of that is bad. Is a good story one that pacifies your fears and insecurities, one that makes you escape reality? Or is it one that has some basis in reality, one that makes you confront your demons so that you can become stronger?

If you prefer the first, I suggest you stick to pornography, propaganda and power fantasies marketed for adolescent boys, disposable tools meant to enslave. If you believe the second is superior, then you've chosen the way of truthful, honest storytelling, where art imitates life and in time, life imitates art.

BvS is about ugly truth and beautiful lies. We choose which to hold onto, as that will guide us through life. Our delusions may give us pleasure, but they will be the death of us. The idea of a heroism where there is no risk, no consequences, no loss of any kind, is a beautiful lie, it is a fantasy for the weak to digest so they can sleep soundly while ignoring the true horrors that exist in their world.
Those who have lived life in its most elemental forms know that truth, justice, heroism, hope, they all come at a cost, but it is always worth the sacrifice. Sometimes we are not strong or fast enough to save every one, but that should not stop us from trying. There is no absolute victory nor absolute failure, there are no absolutes period. And that is the world we live in, and Superman accepts that as he accepts his own mortality and breaks his own myth, by ironically becoming the ultimate hero.

>>86891306

Avengers is more comedic than Ironman. The film except for a few moments never takes itself seriously.

>>86891289
lmao the fuck are you on
Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz and The World's End all have dark and gritty aspects to them. It is that darkness that helps ground the stories and give them an emotional core. Without the loss of loved one and the failure of relationships, without the betrayal by ones own family and community, without the self-destructive desire to recapture ones youth... they would be any other comedy.
>The absolute stupidity in your logic is baffling.
AHAHAHAHAHAHA the irony

>>86891407
But I never laughed.

>>86890809
Do you have difficulty seeing how the first responders to the 9/11 attacks were heroic too? Ohh they saved these people but failed to stop thousands of other deaths!
Maybe you just need to see MOS again, because Superman didn't kill anyone besides Zod. Everyone who died was killed by that machine, and if Superman simply did not fight more people would die. In your b/w view you gotta save 100% or 0% it seems.

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>>86891352
He knows. Heroism without sacrifice is empty and fake heroism. It's a poor imitation of true heroism. Real heroes are those who are willing to sacrifice parts of themselves for the greater good.

>>86891441

Maybe it's humor isn't for you.

>>86891438

>Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz and The World's End all have dark and gritty aspects to them.

It had some gritty aspects you retard. The answer is in your own statement. Avengers had serious moments like coulsons death. It doesn't change the fact that they're overall comedic films.

>>86890113
-Billionaire
-Milithant Atheist
-Profilic Philantrophist
-Supposedly donates millions to charities
-In truth owns large parts of the media and politicians and is willing to manipulate those bodies to further his own agenda

Hmmm, Lex or Soros?

>>86891547
>It doesn't change the fact that they're overall comedic films.
Or as I like to call them - Quipshit.

>>86891438

Exploring some serious themes in a comedy does not make it a gritty movie dumbfuck. A serious zombie movie would be 28 days later. Are you going to disregard Shaun of the dead because it never explored the themes that 28 days did?

>>86891547
And BvS had many moments of comedy. Your point (beyond look at me I have a reddit taste in movies!) is?

>>86891609
>dude SOTD must not be deep because it has no dark or gritty scenes
>But it does have some gritty scenes
>Wow it's not a gritty movie you dumbfuck
Who is the dumbfuck here? Check your reading comprehension boy

>>86891606

Never called them good but Snyderfags complaining about MCU films not being realistic is hypocritical when all they whine about is how unfair it is that the DCEU is criticized for not being quipshit.

>>86891689
I've never complained about the movies being unrealistic. I love BvS but can enjoy films like Speed Racer or Scott Pilgrim too.

I dislike MCU films because they're bland and formulaic.

>>86891688

>>dude SOTD must not be deep because it has no dark or gritty scenes

and you talk about me having reading comprehension issues.

It's Hilarious actually how hypocritical you Snyder fanboys are. I never said SOTD wasn't deep. I said It didn't explore every serious issue associated with a zombie apocalypse. I know reading is hard but do try to keep up.

>>86891739

Your specific complaint here was how they don't explore the consequences of an alien invasion the way MOS/BVS did. I agree with them being sterile and formulaic but that wasn't the issue here was it?

>>86887686
>that pick
I never caught the dead symbolism. Wow.

>>86891827
>I said It didn't explore every serious issue associated with a zombie apocalypse.
No you didn't. You said:
>I didn't realize being gritty and dark is what counts as genuine stories. I guess Shaun of the dead or any comedy or satire is no longer genuine.

And Shaun of the Dead IS genuine and honest about its depiction of a zombie apocalypse. Shaun's mother and friends die. His best friend becomes a zombie. These events give the film real texture, grit and heart. You used the worst fucking example of a comedy.
>refers to zombie movie
>is himself braindead
POTTERY

>>86891931
I'm not the same guy you were talking to. You're the one who decided to group all "Snyderfags" together

>>86890963
jesus christ i hope this is copypasta. this place amazes me.

>>86891075
>when a DC enthusiast answers a Marvel shill
Good show.

>>86891631

Why don't you try reading properly for once in your life? Because it's clear what my point is in my comment. Also saying I have reddit tier taste by assuming I like the MCU is so fucking predictable.

>>86890041
But he is, you limp wrist faggot.

>>86892091
>Redgar Wrighdit isn't reddit

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>>86891528
>Heroism without sacrifice is empty and fake heroism. It's a poor imitation of true heroism. Real heroes are those who are willing to sacrifice parts of themselves for the greater good.
Quoted for truth. Keep repeating it until Snyder detractors let it sink in.

>>86891958

So you weren't following what I said from the very beginning.

> It's like asking zombieland or Shaun of the dead to show how serious it can be in a post apocalyptic shithole.

You cite showing his mother dying as an example of the movie having dark and serious elements yet you ignore deaths like coulson in the Avengers.

>>86890351
You missed the point of the movie and if that critic.

The girls living in a shitty reality and escaping into power fantasies where they're "beautiful." Isn't what makes the film feminist. The idea that a power fantasy for a woman is to become a beautiful object for viewing, that a woman's power lies in her relation to the men who view her, is deeply misogynist. Shitty critics are making that connection and stopping there, declaring the film anti-feminist.

The smart critic pointed out that it's precisely in the way the film treats this anti-feminist imagery that makes it feminist. It's turning women into objects in order to reveal the way they are objectified. That's its feminism, and it's over the head of most critics and apparently you.

>>86892190

Oh please even Armond likes edgar. You're just a faggot with shit taste.

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>>86892091
Why don't you delineate your argument properly you buttfucking goober? If your point was clear you would not be contradicting yourself constantly and lashing out at everyone for pointing out flaws. You should just go home man

>>86892269
It's a power fantasy for a woman to be beautiful same way it's a power fantasy for a men to be strong.

Both are power fantasies because it enables attention of the other sex. Fuck your gender theory classes.

>>86884095
sometimes i wonder if these memes have gone too far and if future generations will actually consider zack to be a good director

>>86892305
is this bait?

>>86892356
Nope. I am completely honest. Look what girls do when given social media. They use it as means to elevate their beauty to others. It's not "sexist", it's female desire. They do it because it makes them feel good. It's not something they've been conditioned into, it's simply they way they are. Same way men want to be seen as strong and capable so they can be seen as a valuable provider. No matter the culture, genders work like this.

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>>86892351
>future
too late sweetie we here now
>consider
recognize
>good director
great human

>>86892203

It's almost as if Snyderfags don't do nuance and are as big of brainlets as their MCU counterparts.

>>86892356
No you fucking idiot, every girl wants to be gorgeous and desired. Every girl and woman no exceptions. Get the fuck off my planet you Marxist fuck!

>>86892445
It's almost as if samefagging this hard

>>86887565
No, but I need to know where this gallery is.

>>86891958
Shaun of the Dead is kinda weird to place tonally.
It does some things very seriously, like Shaun losing his mother. But it ends with Humans completely domesticating zombies, putting them into tv shows, and playing video games with them.

>>86889672
This man is a goddam unsung master.

>>86892561
Greece built it on top of Mount Olympus to show their gratitude towards him making 300 (2006)

>>86892702
I've heard you must best 12 Costner avatars in tests of strength and wisdom before they'll let you in. Is that true?

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Among many other things, BvS is about how having the courage to face truth head-on is the greatest quality a hero(a knight) can have.

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>>86892561
It exists within the mind.

>>86889457
You know there is no mirror right?
2 pairs of ladies facing each other.

>>86892948
reddit

>>86893529
autism

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>>86892948
oh shit you're right. I can see the characters move out of sync like it's a weird dream.

>>86893738
The characters move out of sync because the director is a hack fraud.

>>86893879
The lips move out of sync with dialogue in Scorsese films, does that make him a hack just because he values the take with the best performance over basic continuity?

>>86893738
Zack must've had a raging boner during the entire filming of that film. The girls ended up liking him very much.

>>86894230
He isn't like Joss though.

>>86894227
>The lips

I'm talking about the characters moving. Not their lips.
Pay attention to the video.

>>86889587
>Blood Meridian
>Snyder
Please tell me this is bait designed to get me angry on a Saturday morning.