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what went wrong?

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Thread replies: 170
Thread images: 27

what went wrong?
>>
Horrendous casing for Llane, the Queen, Anduin, and Garona.

The most human and likable characters were CGI muscle monsters.

The Scourge and fall of Lordaeron is way more interesting. Medieval Zombie apocalypse would be dope.
>>
LEAVE THE FELL TO ME!
>>
Is that chick on the front supposed to be a green troll or a proud black woman?

I honestly can't tell.
>>
everything felt too rushed, the dialogue was terrible and the plat was weak

overall there was nothing good about the movie
>>
>>86780730
llane really looks like a faggot
>>
The half orc lady could have looked more orc like, she just looks like a person with green face paint and fake teeth, star trek style.
>>
Impossible for normies to get into unless they brush up on Warcraft lore so they knew what they were saying.
>>
>>86780645
>muh 40 minutes
>>
They thought that starting from the first game would be successful. They should have started from Warcraft 3 eith the stile of Got
>>
>>86780645
The world building was shit. I didn't understand at all the whole portal plot.
>>
Casting. Casting was biggest problem.
>>
It needed to be full CGI.
>>
should have gone with arthas
>>
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it's not Frozen Throne
>>
>>86780645
>shit acting
>shit story structure
>>
>>86781170
>>86781142
>muh lich kang
are you 14 and cut yourself?
>>
>>86781351
yes. how did you know?
>>
humans should have been cgi, in warcraft they're almost as big as orcs, like superhuman
>>
>>86781065
>I didn't understand at all the whole portal plot
which is hilarious because that was the entire point of the film. their lore has been rewritten so many times its completely convoluted and makes little sense. for example:
unlike lord of the rings, orcs in warcraft are from another planet. the tribal orcs were seduced by a demon (from yet another demon planet or something) with promises of power and became corrupted by drinking demon kool-aid. they were then used as an army by the demon race to invade azeroth. the magic used to open the portal between the two worlds is so powerful that it nearly destroys the orcs home planet turning it into a demon infested hell hole. which is why they exile themselves and try to make a home on azeroth. basically none of this is explained.
>>
>>86781361
magic
>>
>>86781351
wotlk was the best of WoW. it makes sense to go with that story
faggot.
>>
>>86781431
Warcraft 3 was the last where the story was still somewhat decent. Warcraft 2 is the best imo. Any WoW lore is trash. The game was only salvageable until TBC.
>>
>>86781431
it was the best part of the story because it's the retelling of the corruption between the father and son. basically the oldest story ever told. any time they try to do something remotely "original" it comes across similar to children playing with dolls and action figures.
>>
>>86780645
Nothing. Movie was good. Public is just too stupid to appreciate a decent blockbuster which is not capeshit.
>>
warcraft is nothing but a weak universe full of boring cliches
>>
>>86781351
i'm 41
>>
>>86780645
The media only has room for one swordfshit show at a time. GoT fulfils this role.
>>
>>86780645
Main flaw was some of the human actors and the rushed pacing due to many scenes being cut.
It was still a very enjoyable movie though. The orc scenes and magic effects were 10/10.
>>
>>86780645
They really needed to slow it down. I know my lore generally, but I can't imagine normies really getting the whole fel magic thing, who the orcs were and what their goals were, who Medivh was and who he answered to and what his purpose was...
A lot of it looked great though.
>>
>>86780976
This. And to add to it, it would have been more successful if it came out about 5 to 8 years ago when WoW was still kinda going strong.

I love the game honestly. I really like the lore and I have read most of the books. I had been playing since WC2 and I played WoW on and off for many years (WotLK was the last xpac I played routinely) but I went into the movie with low expectations. I enjoyed it and I think having low expectations helped. I'd still like to see them make more even if they butcher it.
>>
>>86780730
>The most human and likable characters were CGI muscle monsters.
blizzard been making a big effort to change the orc stereotype and give them empathetic characters. they think this is really groundbreaking stuff and thought that alone would make it a box office hit since most people's vision of orcs comes from lord of the rings. all the effort went into making the cgi orcs seem lifelike, therefore the entire rest of the movie was lacking.
>>
>>86781563
>tfw we got WOW before Everquest

I'd be down for a froglok movie that show's orgres & trolls razing their swamp,or the humans of qeynos battling freeport
>>
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>discusing the warcraft movie
>without having arthasess mont
>>
>>86781767
>getting invincible in 2017

LUL
>>
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>>86781767
>>
>>86781767
I've had it drop twice.
still can't complete the t10 death knight armor set...
>>
>>86781825
>twitch emotes
hope ur child dies in the incubator
>>
>>86781767
>2017
>playing games that require you to endlessly grind bosses/mobs just so you can randomly receive a new piece of loot
>>
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>>86781834
but do u have drop jikun atleast once
>>
>>86780645
Should've adapted Lord of the Clans.
Could have dealt with the backstory in a brief intro like LotR. More concentrated character story that once finished moves straight into the Third War.
>>
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>>86781901
>>
>the orcess wife

muh dick
>>
The world looks fake beyond even the wildest fantasy. When you watch an old 80's action movie it's silly. Everything is over played and over the top but it is internally consistent, I can look at the world and understand how it fits together.

when I looked at Warcraft it felt like a MMO world. Everything was too big just so it had room for a million players. The armour was too big so it looked cartoonish. People were teleporting around and using magical flying mounts to reach huge towers.

What makes a MMO functional is completely different to what makes a believable world. So everything in Warcraft looks like a game and that pulls you out of the movie.
>>
>>86781767
>playing the current version of WoW in 2017

what the fuck are you doing
>>
I didn't care about any of the characters, the pacing felt rushed, the romance between ord girl and human general came absolutely out of nowhere, I still have no idea what the hell Fel is and what that wizard dude in the tower they call "Guardian" actually is the guardian of and it ended without resolving most of its plot.
>>
>>86781408
thanks man
>>
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>>86782005
excuse me what am i supposed to be doing
>>
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TELL ME WHAT TO DO
>>
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>>86782059
getting closer to drinking yourself to death each weekend because you're late 20's working some job like an "adult" and you know that the happiest you ever were or will be in your life was back then
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>>86782268
you forgot your image im playing wow with my gf
>>
>>86780645

nothing it's kino
>>
>>86780931
and the hard-core WoW nerds hated it because it changed "muh lore" from the game
>>
>>86782268

The... feels...
>>
>>86781351
well it's working on teh GoT audience
>>
too much cgi
>>
>>86781408
Jesus fucking Christ orcs are such niggers
>>
>>86780645
No ZUGZUG=no good
>>
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>>86780645
Somehow everything looked fake/cheap on the human side.
On the orc side they went with that stupid negro orc retcon, and the story that orcs didn't do nothin...

What I liked (when WC2 came out I was like 5-6) in the orcs was the opposite. For God's sake, even humans were more brutal. One more minus for brown Doomhammer.

Awesome orcs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gs-hjD5lHE&t=00m014s
>>
>>86782268
stop
>>
>>86783071
We were never gonna get Warcraft 1/2 style black fantasy, Anon. Also, I think we're the same age.

One of my prime motivators in learning to read was so I could read the manuals for WC and WC2 because the art entranced me.
>>
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>>86782268
>>
>>86781991
unironically upvoted
>>
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>>86783071
Some additon to my post:
- the film could be good even with shitty story decisions if they had memorable acts/actors, but they didn't
- the film was shitty, but the interesting thing is: when I left the movie I was in full Warcraft mood (unlike at the SW e7 before)
- Garona was also fake (green makeup look, etc), but the original art was something liek that. I wonder if is there any way to portray her better, or the her concept is inherently bad?

Lok-Tar!
>>
It went wrong from the moment of conceptualization.
Movies, even exceptionally bad ones, are an art form while video games are not. This is like trying to make a movie about a reality tv show or dungeons and dragons.
There is no substance. The source is nothing more than bright colors and trying to add numbers to make bigger numbers.
>>
>>86783071
Helps that old orcs are roughly human in stature, not ogre sized like the movie, or just generally overexaggerated since Samwise's artstyle became the eminent. How anyone can expect humans to win the second war when orcs are 9ft pillars of muscle is beyond me.
>>
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>>86782268
;_;
>>
>>86783291
>>86783071
You kids are autistic fucks
>learning to fucking read so you could play a videogame
What the fuck kind of autism is this?

A 5-6 years old that can't read, is this American education? I learned how to read before kindergarten
>>
>>86783703
>being this stupid and autistic
Here, have a (you) as a reward for participating in life.
>>
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>>86783630
>>
>>86783529
> dungeons and dragons

That confirms your theory
>>
>>86782268
it hurts.. maybe one day we will get another game like that
>>
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>>86783291
That is what I fear. The other problem is, that if they make another warcraft strategy or anything besides wow they will stick to the new "ideals". So I don't really now that I want a WC4 or not.

It will be so good to make a game like an alternate story, but Blizz would sue our ass :(

I know that an original idea would be better, but it's my childhood dream to add my ideas to Warcraft, so it is hard to let it go.
>>
>>86780645
>the moment where something went wrong was probably when your mother didn't love you enough, leading you to hole up in your bedroom, and, eventually, the basement, living in a fantasy world where, eventually, you were concerned that a movie made off a stupid game wasn't something other than the festering pox-and-corn-kernel piece of shit it was always destined to be, fed to people who love to gobble it up, thinking it An Event.
>>
>>86782268
Thank you for these feels anon, have a ((You))
>>
>>86783291
>black fantasy
I'm sure that's what you like little bitch
>>
>>86783071
Christ, Metzen really lucked out, this dude's art looks like fucking garbage. No wonder why he stopped bothering and turned to writing.

But he was what, in his early 20s when he jumped on board for this? It's incredible for that once in a lifetime opportunity alone.
>>
>>86783302
Fuck I forgot about that.
>>
>>86780781
She's an orc and very hot one at that.
>>
>>86783302
what am I looking at here?
>>
>>86784805
Who knows, the Wetlands and Loch Modan were fucked up with Cataclysm.
>>
Gul'Dan was a big guy
>>
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>>86780645
>>
>>86784647
half-orc*
>>
The hack known as Metzen
>>
>>86784805
The path from Ironforge to Darnassus pre-wotlk
>>
>>86784805
There was no connection between Darnassus and Ironforge/Stormwind, so low level night elves had to take a long and somwhat dangerous trek through the Wetlands to meet up with the rest of the Alliance.
>>
>>86786615
>>86786536
and why is it so nostalgic? some kind of ebin adventure being taken away by the newer expansions?
>>
>>86780930
That's how warcraft females are.
>>
>>86786730
I'd imagine because it's a shared memory by ALOT of people, something quite specific that puts them in the frame of mind they were back then.
>>
>>86780645
Humans were cosplayers and acted worse.
also they looked bad close to the orcs.
>>
>>86786730

Yeah essentially. It was a pilgrimage of sorts that most Alliance players would've done at some point
>>
>video game movie

What could possibly go wrong?
>>
>>86786730
Elven zones were really shitty, and had nowhere near enough quests to get beyond mid-10's without having to grind. Therefore, most elves had to make that long pilgrimage.
>>
>>86787018
Never played a NE, but wasn't there some in between zone, where you could land off and simply start questing without all the hassle?
>>
>>86787097
yes but Westfall was THE place to be tho
>>
>>86786730
Also, horde players had to walk a similar path from Arathi Highlands (a zone just above Wetlands) to Badlands (a zone just below Loch Modan) in order to proceed with level 40 questing and, eventually, endgame content. It just so happens that most people had to quest in STV before reaching appropriate level for Badlands, and STV was always known for non-stop world pvp, ganking and level 60's camping quest hubs. And horde players who endured all that were required to make a run through two low level alliance zones where enemy players could pose no resistance to them. Tell me how this isn't brilliant game design.
>>
>>86787018
>>86787097
>>86787183
who cares about starting zones when the real fun started in strangle?
>>
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>>86787183
>>
>>86787097
Past lvl 20 you enter Ashenvale aka Vietnam-lite, beyond that any low level Alliance dungeons or weapons trainers you may want to talk to pretty much forces the pilgrimage.
>>
>>86780645
One thing
>Using real humans instead of cg Warcraft humans.
>>
Movie was fucking terrible because it butchered all the lore. Instead of following books they just made a mediocre fantasy movie.
>>
>>86781532
This, Wrath was fun but storywise TBC was the best thing to come from WoW.
>>
>>86780645
The fucking Moon director.
>b-b-but h-he w-was-s a w-w-war-c-craft fan
"No!"
>>
>>86787450
wtf are you all about? the changes in the lore were very minimal
>>
>>86781610
Should have done 2 movies, one from the Orc perspective and the other from the Human perspective
>>
>>86787500
and make both endings contradict each other
just like w2
>>
>>86780730
Lothar was great fuck off
>>
>>86787459
Draenei porn is the best thing to come from WoW so I guess you are technically correct.
>>
>>86787211
STV was the only time I had real fun playing WoW, but even this got old after a while. I canceled my subscription after 4 months of playing the game.
>>
>>86787470
>thrall born before the exile of frostwolf clan
>sent down a river like fucking moses, because we wuz orcs and shit
>dalaran is floating before 3rd war
>some alodi bullshit
>khadgar doesn't age
>orgrim doesn't become warchief
>muh attack on the dark portal
>garona kills llane because he asked her to, not because she was a traitor until the very end
The entire movie was OC bullshit.
>>
>>86782268
>YWN step foot for the first time into the original UBRS
>>
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>>86780645
>Focus on foreign market and mass appeal
>Don't focus on making a good movie and hoping profits will follow

Standard operating procedure for coked out Hollywood execs. To be fair I think it turned a profit.
>>
>>86786536
>the two thousand and fourth year of our lord
>not having a friend or guildie to port you to IF
>>
>>86787682
I'm not sure about the dalaran part, but garona killing llane was the only significant change out of this
and she wasn't even technically a traitor in the lore, she was just forced to do it by mind control magic and was torn apart afterwards
>>
>tfw all your cool old e-peen things are on the account you shared with your brother way back when.
I want my old pvp title back ;_;
>>
They should've just made a movie about the Human Campaign from WC3 revolving around Arthas' fall, ending the movie with Arthas "succeeding" his father
>>
>>86781767
if its invincible why can you see it?
>>
I actually chuckled when kadghar leveled up in the karazhan scene
>>
>>86782930
Don't think I heard a single 'Something need doing?" either
>>
>>86782268
Wow what the fuck get out of my head

Literally the only thing that managed to replace WoW for me is cocaine and XTC fuelled weekends
>>
>>86788041
I could never understand the addiction. MMOs are so fucking boring.
>>
>>86782268
but im 42 years old
>>
>>86787311
If i remember correctly, vanilla Ashenvale's alliance quests just sort of ended like halfway through the zone, meanwhile Horde had a fuckload of quests there
>>
>>86788064
I can attest that it stimulates your dopamine receptors just like coke, I wasn't even exaggerating. There's research to be found that concludes this

the grind of WoW itself obviously was never fun, it was the social aspect (which you then let replace your real life social life if you're a loser like me) and the dopamine fuelled gratification for "accomplishing" fake things.
>>
I actually liked it, the Orcs were great, and the humans were fine, even though they were pretty generic. And the plot point of Garona getting accepted because she stabbed one of her friends was surprisingly poignant.

That said, fucking hell did good characters bite the dust and the main baddie survived, quite surprising.
>>
>>86787218
>overthrowing a secretive criminal syndicate that plans on assaulting the capital and usurping the crown isn't fun.
K
>>
>>86788351
pve scrub
>>
>>86788258
This I just unlocked flying in Broken isle finally and it was great mostly because the grind was awful but yeah I get you
>>
They used by far the least interesting story in the Warcraft universe. OK they needed to lay the ground for the (far more promising) sequels, but what good does that do when the story turns people off after 20 minutes?

>hurr durr they should have done Arthas
WRONG.

They should have done a Defias Brotherhood spinoff. It would have been perfect for an introductory film.
A brand new plot with the Defias Brotherhood would have interested old players and new fans at the same time. No more rehashing old stories. And they could have quickly shown off the most interesting parts of the Warcraft universe without too much boring unrelated garbage. No need for Gul'dan and portals and fel and spirits and all that complicated shit, just the basics.

If you aren't familiar with the story, here it is:
>Stormwind is destroyed by the ebil orcs
>Elites and nobles want to rebuild the city
>Hire lots of cheap labour
>After the rebuilding is complete, the elites refuse to pay for the work (they can't afford it)
>Labourers riot and get very upset
>They form the Defias Brotherhood and vow revenge against the city that they built with their own hands
Lots of potential there.

This film would have perfectly set up the Warcraft franchise. Prove me wrong.
>>
>>86788258
>it was the social aspect
oh yeah. nothing beats banging wow sluts
>>
>>86787211
Strangle was hard for Ally too.
I met my raiding guild in Vanilla after an all-out attack to the horde positions because we were sick of being killed.
Back then, Alliance in my server was not made of cucks.
Also, disregard any lore after half TBC. Is for your own good.
>>
>>86787670
I wanna fugg a draenei qt from behind and use her horns as handlebars.
>>
>>86788109
I think there were some chain quests that linked to Stonetalon that were enough to set you for Desolace, but I didn't play Alliance much back then, and when I did it was to see places I generally wouldn't (Westfall, Duskwood etc.uskwood)
>>
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>>86787875
>I'm not sure about the dalaran part
>>
>>86788258
>>86788410
I seriously quit WoW after 4 months of playing. It was vanilla. I had a relapse some years later, when 2 of my irl friends asked me to play with them. Quit after 2 weeks. Never looked back. It's just not fun at all for me.
>>
>>86786753
I don't know the orc females might be the same size as a human but there features should be all orc. Garona in the games isn't real great though because they don't make her look different even though shes a half-orc then all the other full orc females so that why people think she's off.
>>
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rate my transmog
>>
>>86780645
>Make a liveaction version of an existing setting and lore
>Change everything about it
I wonder what went wrong.
>>
>>86788393
Nah senpai, I regularly topped the scoreboard in pvp.
I was a ret pally too. let the hate commence
>>
>>86788553
>playing fanfic races
>>
>>86788534
Good for you, my addiction grew to the extent that most of my memories surrounding my teen years are about WoW
>>
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why dont Blizz do instances like this anymore?

pic related
>>
>>86783302
>Going through the Northgate Pass after getting the flight path in Thelsamar
What kind of mongoloid did this when the Southgate Pass to Dun Morogh was so much closer to Thelsamar?
>>86787470
>very minimal
>There are Draenei in the film due to World of Warcraft
>Fel Magic instead of Demon Blood
>Humans using pistols before The Second War
>Every human wants to help Garona
>Garona isn't an Orc Asssassin on a mission
>Garona only stabs Llane because he tells her to do, not because she's an Assassin sent by Gul'dan
>Retarded lovestory between Lothar and Garona for no reason
>Durotan is killed in Mak'Gora by Gul'dan instead of being exiled and fleeing to Alterac
>Blackhand defeated in Mak'Gora by Lothar instead of being betrayed by Orgrim
>Draka stabbed by a random Grunt
>Garona doesn't help kill Medivh/Sargeras
>Dalaran is flying when it shouldn't be before the assault on Northrend
>Orcs are brown due to World of Warcraft
>Thrall is turned green instead of being born that way
>Grom looks like the World of Warcraft version and not the Warcraft 3 version
>Ner'zhul is not shown in the film at all
>No Shadow Council to rule behind the scenes
>Orgrim is a Frostwolf and not a Blackrock
>Blackhand is the Warchief instead of Orgrim
>Gul'dan created "the Horde" and is Blackhand's superior for some reason
>Stormwind doesn't get attacked shortly after Llane's death
>The Alliance is formed without the Sacking of Stormwind
>>
>>86788678
>flying mounts before the burning crusade
>big armoured griffin before mop
>>
>>86788783
>flying mounts before the burning crusade
Dwarves and Elves were flying around in Warcraft 3, I can't remember if there were such units in Warcraft 1 or 2.
>>86788783
>big armoured griffin before mop
I thought the Armoured Gryphon and Horde equivalent were added in WoD.
>>
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>>86782268
>>
>>86788820
There was a griphon rider in WC2.
>>
>>86788844
everyone transferred away from the dead realm
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>>86788844
>>
>>86788844
They're all in Stormwind while the nostalgia fag is using Ironforge.
>>86788860
God I really should replay the games and read the manuals again.
>>
>>86780645
You cant make a movie out of a video game. I mean you can but it will inevitably be a disappointment to the fans and wont hold ground as a good movie in itself.
There is no point
>>
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>>86788844
>full house get
>empty house feels
>>
>>86788678
>There are Draenei in the film due to World of Warcraft
blame wow
>Fel Magic instead of Demon Blood
literally insignificant in the long run
>Humans using pistols before The Second War
blizzard didn't come up with the idea of guns in W1, but the tech is pretty stale, so you can assume they were there before
>Every human wants to help Garona
true
>Garona isn't an Orc Asssassin on a mission
yeah, they made her a lost baby instead, kinda silly
>Garona only stabs Llane because he tells her to do, not because she's an Assassin sent by Gul'dan
she stabbed Llane because she was MCd, but they really were friends
>Retarded lovestory between Lothar and Garona for no reason
true
>Durotan is killed in Mak'Gora by Gul'dan instead of being exiled and fleeing to Alterac
yeah, but it doesn't really change the outcome, they probably wanted it to be more dramatic
>Blackhand defeated in Mak'Gora by Lothar instead of being betrayed by Orgrim
same kinda
>Draka stabbed by a random Grunt
isn't it exactly what happened to her?
>Garona doesn't help kill Medivh/Sargeras
who cares
>Dalaran is flying when it shouldn't be before the assault on Northrend
Is it though? I don't remember
>Orcs are brown due to World of Warcraft
blame wow again
>Thrall is turned green instead of being born that way

>Grom looks like the World of Warcraft version and not the Warcraft 3 version
Literally just a more detailed model of him
>Ner'zhul is not shown in the film at all
Yeah, shame
>No Shadow Council to rule behind the scenes
Probably saved for War 2
>Orgrim is a Frostwolf and not a Blackrock
Was he? I'm not sure if his clan was even mentioned
>Blackhand is the Warchief instead of Orgrim
Blackhand was the Warchief before Orgrim
>Gul'dan created "the Horde" and is Blackhand's superior for some reason
Blackhand was always Guldans puppet
>Stormwind doesn't get attacked shortly after Llane's death
Beginning of war 2
>>
>>86788640
I was glad Monk's artifact tied in with here again I wish they would go back to less instanced dungeons and add some that are there in the real world as well.
>>
Btw lads
The Vanilla server is elysium-project these days. It's not 100% perfect, but the only problem is that the mods have been known to gift themselves epic drops. Not really a big deal if you ask me tbqh.

I think >>>/vg/ might even have a guild
>>
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From light comes darkness and from darkness light!!!!
>>
With humans: 4/10
Without humans: 9/10
>>
>>86781738
Basically the ultimate Dindu movie
>>
>>86789202
We wuz Azerothians an shiet
>>
>>86780645
Should have been about Arthas's story, doesn't even matter that everyone already knows it and it's literally Darth Vader, people would've loved it anyway.
>>
>>86789162
no half humans then yeah sure could of just had there big orc movie with demons and at the end maybe show the humans or actually follow through with the garona plot and have her killing the king the first time we meet the humans
>>
>>86789335
You're reading too hard. All I'm saying is that the human characters dragged it down.
>>
>>86789004
>blame wow
Why the hell do you think I wrote it down in the first place? It's a completely unnecessary lore change, and they did it to appease WoW fans instead of Warcraft fans.
>literally insignificant in the long run
Not even close, Demon Blood is the reason they turn red and then green again when they're off the kool-aid, it also happens to be the most significant Orc plot due to Mannoroth.
>but the tech is pretty stale, so you can assume they were there before
Pistols weren't invented in the lore until Warcraft 2.
>she stabbed Llane because she was MCd, but they really were friends
Wasn't mind controlled in the original lore.
>yeah, but it doesn't really change the outcome
Yes, let's forget all about the Orc internment camps and the backstory of Thrall.
>isn't it exactly what happened to her?
Killed while being exiled together with her clan when they were tricked.
>who cares
And this is why you really should fuck off.
>>
>>86789004
>she stabbed Llane because she was MCd, but they really were friends
I didnt see any priests. and no warlocks cant mindcontrol
>>
>>86787706
It did.
Chinks fucking loved it.
>>
>>86782677
which version of the lore? it has been re-written at least 3 times to shoehorn in new narratives and characters. besides that it's not even a remotely original universe, it's just a bunch of references to other fantasy stories.
>>
>>86789844
This, Blizz has been aping Warhammer since the first Warcraft and Starcraft games.
>>
>>86787875
>I'm not sure about the Dalaran part
C'mon man, everyone slightly interested in the lore, even though they have skipped W1 and 2, they surely played Warcraft 3. DK Arthas defiles a 'grounded' Dalaran and later on Archimonde completely wrecks it.
>>
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>No Warhammer Vermintide movie

sad!
Thread posts: 170
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