The Fountainhead

>>86340944

Dude, it's Ayn Rand. She didn't even try to hide her contempt for the poor.

>>86341014
ROFL. Just looked up Ayn Rand. I had no idea, I just watched this flick because I was going through King Vidor's filmography. Jesus Christ.

>>86341359
Was it worth the watch regardless?

>>86342612
Made me think.

>>86340944
/OURGUY/

>>86341014
>be self hating, ugly, poor jew
>come to the Americas, write a bunch of masturbatory fanfictions about den Übermenschen
>retards eat it up as usual
>die while on social security

>>86342688
I'll give it a watch then. Looks interesting.

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>>86340944
THOSE BUMS VIOLATED THE NAP

COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED, SHOULDA BLOW'D UP THE HOMELESS SHELTER WITH THEM INSIDE

THATS THE WAY OF THE WORLD SNOWFLAKES :^)

>>86341359
You watched this shit without knowing who ayn rand was?

>>86343802
I've only heard he is /lit/s favorite writer that's all.

>>86343802
I saw Duel in the Sun and loved it so much that I wanted to watch everything this guy ever directed. I'm pretty ignorant about film and don't read books

>>86343802
It's a she (well, barely)

>>86343907
You obviously dont know /lit/.

kek i haven't read any of Rand's books is that actually what happened? might watch this film for keks instead of suffering a huge doorstopper of free market drivel

>>86344020
Yes, Gary Cooper rapes a woman then blows up a homeless shelter.

>>86344104
Man that shit's not even half as bad as Atlas Shrugged. In that book the main character crashes through a cloaking shield in the Rocky Mountains and finds a hidden commune where only super smart ceo entrepreneurs lives, almost gets raped by the super smartest of the ceos, bombs a bunch of radio towers, then performs a daring midnight raid on a secret underground government torture complex with a viking pirate and a coal mine owner to save her almost rapist from being shot with a pain raygun.

>>86344319
sounds like if she dropped a little acid she could have been a fun science fiction writer

>>86344020
he designs a housing project for someone but they change the design so he gets pissed off and blows it up. then he gives a speech at his trial about the individual and is found not guilty. this character is the quintessential randian 'hero'

>>86344020
the film diverts a lot from the book, and i do not recall a homeless shelter ever being blown up in the novel. i haven't read any Rand novels aside from FH, but it's actually a good book. it doesn't layer on very strongly the whole objectivist shit, or at least how people describe it anyway. the main character Roark is pretty charitable throughout the book, and it's his counterpart who acts completely selfishly that suffers.

>>86344319
looking back, I can't believe I got all the way through the book during high school. John Galt's 50 page speech where he just spouted off Rand's personal beliefs was absolutely ludicrous.

i like ayn rand. poor people are stupid

>>86344020
The "hero" is an architect savant. He designs a building for one purpose and they people who buy it use it for another. So he destroys his own creation. Its supposed to be a sort of.... well. Maybe frankenstein or man. I'm drawing a blank. I read the book in 2008 and I don't remember it too well except how much detail she uses to describe environments. Like Tolkien level detail.

>>86344487
eat the poor

>>86344490
I hated the book but it got me into modern architecture.

>>86344459
Don't tell me they forced you to read that crap in high school. Where did you go?

>>86344583
Nah, it was all on my own. My school was very liberal

>>86344582
actually yeah. Same here. Now I love modernist buildings. Its funny, architecture was the vessel she used to explain her philosophy but the architecture is what I got out of it.

>>86344487
not stupid. more like serial bad decision makers

>>86344582
>>86344705
and of course i also got the whole loving yourself and accepting who you are bit too. but mostly buildings.

>>86344705
>>86344582
My dad is an architect and it's his favorite book. I'll have to read it some day before he dies.

>>86344713
Luckily us rich people can pay others to make good decisions for us

>>86344792
im not "rich" but i am far from being poor. poor people are poor because they make bad choices. poverty is self induced.

>>86340944
Welcome to Ayn Rand.

If you're poor then eat shit.

>>86344319
Shit that sounds awesome.

I want to read Atlas Shrugged now.

>>86344911
>I'm not poor. Now let me tell you why other people are poor.

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>>86345088
it's a great book.

>>86343157
Wouldn't you take social security if you were forced to pay into it in the first place?

>>86345154
i had to drop out of highschool when i was 16 to help support my family. i know about being poor, it is a personal decision to mismanage funds, to stay at a bad career/job, to focus on projecting high social status while being a broke ass bum. being poor is a choice and anyone can pull themselves out of poverty with some effort.

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>>86345322
>>86345088
>>86344911

>>86340944
Many are poor due to the myriad of government interventions in the market.
According to Rand: The altruist notion that a person’s need constitutes a moral claim on others. As Rand observes in Atlas Shrugged, this moral creed implies that:
>It is immoral to live by your own effort, but moral to live by the effort of others–it is immoral to consume your own product, but moral to consume the products of others–it is immoral to earn, but moral to mooch–it is the parasites who are the moral justification for the existence of the producers, but the existence of the parasites is an end in itself–it is evil to profit by achievement, but good to profit by sacrifice–it is evil to create your own happiness, but good to enjoy it at the price of the blood of others.

>>86345322
>>86344911
suburban ancap detected

>>86345322
>some effort
Here is what you need to realize. The effort required to do that is going to be different for different people, not just based on the circumstances you're born into but also previous decisions you've made. For many people it's simply not possible to decide "welp, time to stop being poor" without it requiring herculean amounts of effort over extreme periods of time to accomplish that.

Theoretically it is indeed possible for anybody to stop being poor. But for instance if you're a heroin addict, or have been convicted of a serious crime, or live in an extremely unhealthy relationship with someone else this can be made infinitely more difficult. Hence why it may be necessary to offer avenues of support so that more people can be less poor.

We also need to acknowledge that avenues like this are in place in most developed and even semi-developed countries. Unless someone was already working before WW2 no one in such a country can really claim they got where they are solely through their own hard work, at some point whether they realize it or not society uplifted them in some way or another.

>>86343907
>he

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>>86345415
Holy shit, capitalists BTFO.

Comrade Rand telling it like it is.

>>86345536
>For many people it's simply not possible to decide "welp, time to stop being poor" without it requiring herculean amounts of effort over extreme periods of time to accomplish that.
i disagree. all you have to do is

1. quit spending money on useless shit
2. go somewhere where you can make lots of money (seattle construction, alaska fishing industry, texas/north dakota oil fields)
3. live frugally for a year until you have a safety buffer
4. start a business or go to school or join an apprenticeship or just stay with one of the high paying jobs i mentioned,

all im saying is that being poor is a choice that is somewhat easily rectified. i hate seeing poor people complain about being poor when they clearly live beyond their means and have never put solid effort in to bettering their situation because they prefer to sit around and complain about successful people.

>>86345754
>all im saying is that being poor is a choice that is somewhat easily rectified
Here's the thing I'm saying, for a lot of people that's true but for a lot of people it is not. As I point out
>Theoretically it is indeed possible for anybody to stop being poor. But for instance if you're a heroin addict, or have been convicted of a serious crime, or live in an extremely unhealthy relationship with someone else this can be made infinitely more difficult.
When you're physically dependent on heroin it can be extremely difficult to stop spending money and to hold down a job with quitting heroin cold turkey being insanely difficult and many governments offering little support for recovery assuming they won't just penalize you for it. And when you've been convicted for something serious it can be very hard to move on to lucrative work when most jobs of that kind are very competitive assuming they'd even consider you as an applicant at all.

Now you may say
>but they chose to start using heroin/commit crimes
Now that may be true. But shouldn't we make it easier for them to escape such a situation and start life as productive members of society rather than just making it more difficult? Of course many people have made horrible choices that have contributed to their current situations, but it is without a doubt in our interests (regardless of what is moral) to create a society where everyone is as productive and as fulfilled as possible.

>>86345969
three of my cousins are homeless heroin addicts so i know where youre coming from. its hard for me to not be extremely cynical with all my experience of helping poor people and addicts and having them fail miserably. i believe in some social safety net for truly destitute so i'm not completely "randian". im at an impasse because i want to help the truly broken poor people but hate the idea of forcing taxpayers to give handouts to lazy sacks of shit.

>>86345754
>go somewhere where you can make lots of money

If you have the right age, contacts, demographics, look, ability to move, history, record and dialects, maybe.

And if you get hurt or wounded, you get nothing because America hates its workers and White working-class people hate workers' rights and unions more than anything.

America is not the land of opportunities. America is more like Victorian England.

>>86345593
>you oversee them

thats what socialists actually believe.

>>86346241
If you don't vote to stop the war on drugs and its deleterious effects, you don't get to complain about addicts and deadbeats. Just like you don't get to complain at all if you didn't vote or intentionally wasted your vote on Al Eppo or Doctor Vaxxer.

>>86346299
>If you have the right age, contacts, demographics, look, ability to move, history, record and dialects, maybe.
uhhh nope they hire pretty much anyone with a good interview. stop making excuses.
>>86346344
im against the drug war and pretty much everything trump stands for but somehow i hate progressive even more.

t. voted democrat for president 3 times then voted for trump

>>86346443
>uhhh nope they hire pretty much anyone with a good interview

uhhhh nope.

>>86346443
>im against the drug war and pretty much everything trump stands for but somehow i hate progressive even more.

>t. voted democrat for president 3 times then voted for trump

And this is why I'm not afraid of IS. It literally can't get worse than having emotional schizos like you influencing the Western world.

>>86346443
I am 100 % sure you have convinced yourself the "primary was rigged against Bernie" too.

>>86346241
You don't even just need to organize it in the sense of taking money from one person and giving it to another unconditionally.

It would be wiser to set up a system of opening up opportunities, like the New Deal. Where rather than giving people the money they need to survive you make it easier to afford high-level education, to create lucrative jobs, to get opportunities for rehabilitation both inside and outside of prison, and to restrict foreign intervention in the economy when it's at the expense of citizens. In the case of the latter homes would not be half as expensive were it not for all the foreign "investors" buying them up to never live in them.

I also think it would be a good idea to abolish all tax except income tax when it comes to alleviating poverty without it being at the expense of other people.

>>86345536
>Theoretically it is indeed possible for anybody to stop being poor. But for instance if you're a heroin addict, or have been convicted of a serious crime, or live in an extremely unhealthy relationship with someone else this can be made infinitely more difficult. Hence why it may be necessary to offer avenues of support so that more people can be less poor.

This is utterly wrong. For capitalism to work there must be an underclass. Its a feature, not a bug.

>>86346749
I realize that, which is why I think industrial civilization itself is a mistake and we should all live like Cossacks in quasi-tribal communities.

But that's not happening any time soon, so in the mean time all we should be worrying about is how to make things less shit to the best of our present abilities.

This is the age of Trump, isn't Ayn Rand cool now?

>>86343907
/lit/ is full of Leftists and Zizek fans. Ayn Rand is literally the opposite end of the spectrum of what they like.

>>86346344
>If you don't vote to stop the war on drugs and its deleterious effects, you don't get to complain about addicts and deadbeats
A bloo bloo bloo. What a fake and weak ass caveat for you to pretend anyone who lives with a problem invented it because they didn't toss a penny in a fountain to wish someone else would fix it. He didn't even tell you how he votes, you avoidant buck-passer.

>>86346749
Anyone, not everyone

>>86345269
Yup. I don't like Rand but that is the laziest argument ever.

>>86345088
It's shit, FH is the only good book.

>>86347917
I've read The Fountainhead and didn't like it so that's why I slept on Atlas Shrugged. But from anon's description Atlas Shrugged sounds absolutely badass.

>>86346344
You can't fall for the Aleppo meme and still pretend to be smart. You act like there isn't a longer video out there where he continues on to intelligently answer the question, implying that the Aleppo moment was simply a brain fart that everyone on Earth can and has experienced.

>>86346845
Are you like me? Do you see that photo people use to show off how shitty N. Korea is (the one from space that shows how much darker it is than other countries) and think to yourself, "yeah that's probably what we should all look like if we're gonna keep pretending we want to save this planet"?
Do you see declining birth rates as a positive thing as I do?

>>86347968
It's not, many books can have nice descriptions but AS is just terrible.

>>86348114
> "yeah that's probably what we should all look like if we're gonna keep pretending we want to save this planet"?
Yes. It's ridiculous that the west pretends using insane amounts of energy 24/7 all year round is a good thing, even when much of it doesn't even benefit anyone.
>Do you see declining birth rates as a positive thing as I do?
Not necessarily. On one hand there's more almost certainly people than a sustainable mode of organization and production could support, on the other hand birth rates are lowest in the places that are best equipped to sort this system out. I'm not sure we'll ever know how that one is going to turn out until it happens.

>>86348191
>nice descriptions
I don't care about descriptions, I want to see the cloaking shields, superhuman CEO rapists and viking pirate terrorists saving said rapist from raygun torture.

>>86346443
You need the education. You need to be union favorite. You need to be able to move, find house etc.

You are ignorant mate.

>>86346993
Ayn Rand is literally the opposite end of the spectrum of what they like because she couldn't write her way out of a wet paper bag, which means only illiterate retards focused on the politics could think her writing is good. Her prose deserves a version of that Harry Potter pasta with "lighted a cigarette" exchanged for "stretching his legs".

>>86340944
I enjoyed the film and admire her strength in staying true to her principles but the old wench is totally bonkers

>>86344459
I decided that I'd read it because otherwise I wouldn't be able to critique it. The start with Dagny building the railroad was actually quite nice so it took me by surprise. But then the fucklong speeches began and all the one-dimensional villains got to be too much. It took me like 6 months to force my way through the rest of it because I was too stubborn to start reading another book before I'd finished it, but I just simply couldn't bring myself to read the drivel to get it over with either.

>>86345088
The "hero" wins by holding a really bad speech that lasts for about 50 pages because it reiterates and beats you over the head with the philosophy that Ayn already spent the entire book on, causing the villains to just give up. It's not awesome at all.

>>86348706
But I want to find out how pirates and terrorism fits into this.

Especially the viking pirate part wtf?

>>86343157
>die while on social security
This is misleading. She didn't need social security because she was poor; she took it in response to the government taxing her.

>>86349166
It's just a rich Danish background character with a ship, who steals shipments of aid sent to other countries or sinks them, because those shipments are "stolen goods" and so they can't be allowed to be given away to the starving parasites they're meant for. Also he's able to fight the US navy right outside NYC with one ship because Ayn has no fucking idea how the world works. He's nothing more than a "cool" background character that wants to suck Galt's sharply-lined gaunt cock, just like all the other "good guys".

He has one decent speech about how people have changed the meaning of Robin Hood, though. I like that bit, even if Ayn's point was faulty as ever.

Hey, I saw people on this very site cheering about refugee shelters being set on fire.

>>86349452
Yeah but they're brown.

>>86346299
>White working-class people hate workers' rights and unions more than anything.
Fuck off nigger

>>86341014
Someone give me a quick rundown on Ayn Rand.
All i heard about him/her were jokes about his/her radical views such as:

Ayn Rand, Rand Paul and Paul Ryan walk into a bar. The bartender serves them tainted alcohol because there are no regulations. They die.

>>86349563
She (probably)got raped by some commies as a kid and went insane, turning to ultra-capitalism instead because it's the opposite of communism. Wrote several books with no artistic merit in them as they were just vehicles to spread her "philosophy" of greed being good in the most hamfisted way possible.

Also made her husband wear a bell because he walked too silently and spooked her, probably because of lingering trauma from the rape. Real kooky bitch.

>>86349518
Basically.
>Jus bee urself
>Poor people, stop being poor.
>I want rich, muscular rugged individualists to rape me.
>The government is OBJECTIVELY evil.

>>86349654
> Also made her husband wear a bell because he walked too silently and spooked her, probably because of lingering trauma from the rape. Real kooky bitch.
I'm surprised he didn't literally die of getting cucked so hard by her all the time.

>>86349563
>author of Fountainhead and Atlus Shrugged
>jew
>minarchist (wanted a government limited to police and military)
>created Objectivism (believed the purpose of life is to strive for your own happiness)

>>86349808
>created Objectivism (believed the purpose of life is to strive for your own happiness)

That doesn't sound bad when you say it that way so why does everyone shit on her philosophy

>>86349867
She believed that theft is always evil, so government tax even to fund welfare is wrong.

>>86349867
Because it only sounds good when you say it like that.

>>86349951
>tax is theft

:thinking:

>>86349867
Because there's a strong social Darwinist streak in it and she never really articulates it very well. Which isn't helped by the fact that she chiefly communicates her ideas through bad erotica novels.

>>86349867
social darwinism for a social species

>>86350007
Depends on your definition, but it's pretty arbitrary to have a definition that excludes governments from taking people's stuff by force.

>captcha: ROAD

>>86350074
Property is in itself an act of taking something by force.

>>86349563
She started the Objectivist philosophy.

A philosophy which states you should consider only personal happiness and progress, and everything you do should further that goal. Basically, free reign to be a selfish dick.

>>86346749
The underclass is a feature, but what level of life does the underclass should have? The one from Somalia or the one from Ger,many?

>>86350109
But you also mustn't take anything by force because then you're a looter. Except for all the times her characters do exactly that and remain heroes. She was pretty fucking terrible at keeping her values clear, at least in Atlas Shrugged. Which is an achievement when you consider how many words she wrote trying to clarify her beliefs.

>>86350125
Capitalism does not end at a country's own borders, it is global. They're all the underclass and the discrepancy of living standards between countries is another feature.

>>86350100
Yes, but the definition of theft most people use is taking private property.

>>86350259
Except here's the thing, property is totally made up. The only real distinction between who's stealing and who owns it is whoever threatened force to hold onto it first.

It's really just divine right of kings tier nonsense for capitalism when you think about it.

>>86346955
Atlas Shrugged has long been more popular book in America than the Bible.

>>86350310
I'm not arguing for capitalism or communism, just saying that the definition of theft is usually something like "taking someone's private property without their permission".

>>86350367
Yeah and I'm saying as a concept "property" is basically relative.

>>86350367
By ving property you ARE taking something as your own.

>>86350394
Do you believe taxation is theft?

>>86350480
Yes but it's specifically theft from me alone because I own everything.

>>86350524
You believe property isn't a valid idea?

>captcha: property

>>86350578
More or less.

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>>86350578
>>86350394
Brainlet

>>86350658
Meant for
>>86350610
>>86350394

>blows up a building
>immediately cuts her wrists so it looks like she was hurt in the explosion

I nearly shit myself laughing at how crazy that scene was.

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>>86350658
>You're a brainlet because you don't subscribe to the same imaginary ideas I do

I laughed out loud when the train full of commie strawman balls died in the tunnel.

>>86349867
Because under objectivism you can't blame everybody but yourself for your problems. Also you reject all of socialism and communism under objectivism, and we sure have a fuckload of millenia freeloaders who squee whenever anyone promises them "free" anything.

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>>86350798
>if I stop this train they'll blame me and I'll get fired
>if I don't stop this train they'll blame me and I'll get fired
>eh, I'll just let the train go and then walk out, serves them right

Ayn Rand is quite literally, too hardcore, even for the self proclaimed capitalist gatekeepers of 4chan.

>>86350927
>wants a state to enforce property rights
She's a commie.

>>86348016
Gary Johnson is an idiot. The Aleppo moment doesn't even matter. He essentially killed the libertarian party along with his choice of Bill Weld. Party is dead and has been set back to square one.

>>86340944
You don't get it. He's his own man.

>>86348016
>where he continues on to intelligently answer the question,

He absolutely not not intelligently answer the question.