Thoughts on Se7en?

DETECTIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE

kevin spacey is gay

>>85776736
Dont get why it was rated R in Aus since many of the same movies come under the +15 category here.

10/10 flick

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>>85777063
>I don't get why se7en was rated R

>>85776736
Kind of overrated. I like it a bit less every time I watch it.

>>85776736
HELP HELP DETECTIIIIIIIIIIIIVE

I didn't like the ending.

>>85777252
The execs didn't either, they wanted to make it his dogs head because it was too dark

I thought the whole point of his game was to have every sin murdered. How was wrath killed?

>>85777317
Mills was Wrath when he killed John Doe

>>85777374

ya but mills is fine, i guess he's out of it mentally for a while but after he gets over it then so what?

>>85777374
Yeah, but he still lived. So, John was still missing a sin.

Great planning.

>>85776736
I had to turn it off, it was too scary
Did we ever find out what was in the box?

>>85777427
>>85777442
I always thought the implication was that Mills would probably kill himself after all that, he shot John Doe knowing that would end his career as a cop and land him in jail, and his career and his wife were hs whole life so he has nothing to live for anyway

AWWW WHAT'S IN THE BAWWWWWWWX

david fincher is fucking terrible

>>85777641
Yeah, but we are never shown that. There absolutely no guarantee he would kill himself, unless shown.

That ending is left ambiguous on purpose. And John Doe's "masterpiece" virtually incomplete.

>>85777252
i like the ending in theory but the more you think about it the more amazingly impossible that shit would be to pull off.

Dark stormy kino like matrix. Love it.

>>85777063
Could you give some examples? I'm curious how your rating system compares to the MPAA system.

>>85777726
We arent shown it but I think it can be inferred, it's the only way John Does plan makes any sense, he seemed to know a lot about Mills as a person and Mills proved his deductions were correct by playing exactly the part that was set up for him, I think it's almost so obvious that they really don't even need to show it, leaving such a glaring whole in the plan, literally one seventh of it beimg incomplete is completely out of character from everything we know about john

>>85778081
Although I respect your point, I still go more about what is actually shown.

John was literally nobody. We don't know his origin, his name even. We don't know nothing about him except for, again, what was shown of him throughout the movie.

If we guide ourselves by that, then it shows us John Doe is an impulsive person that does not really know how to react when his plans don't go accordingly. He shot Mills and Somerset when they showed up at his door. Then he claimed to have had to change his agenda to accommodate to the events folded.

If we go for what we think of, then, what I think of, is that John betted all out on his last attempt to get to Mills. Willingly, and knowing he could have failed. It's true, he did show impulsiveness because of his anger and grief. But who wouldn't? To me, it comes across as a last and cheap resort for Doe.

>>85777291
that's refreshing to hear. for once the execs didn't get their way and the flick was better because of it

>>85777442
he has to live with his homicide and also deal with the consequences of it, whatever the courts decide. that is his punishment. are you guys really this stupid?

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>>85776736
So what was the deal with the box? What was in it? Am I just to dumb too understand it?

>>85778965
It was just a box of donuts.

>>85778423
Yeah, this too. I have thought about it. Specially for the way Somerset says he will be around for Mills.

>>85778965
>>85777501
Is this a meme, he states it's his wifes head

>>85776736
Holy shit.. His balding is terrible.

>>85777895
So the ratings we have are G (all ages), PG (+13), M(15 or Older), MA(15 must be accompanied by guardian or adult) and R (+18).

Some movies that were drastically different in rating when compared to the US were (only some I can think of at the moment):

>Kill Bill (PG in the US. R in Aus)
>Deadpool (MA in AUS, R in US)
>Dawn of the Dead (R in Aus on release, M or equivalent in US)

Just some that I can remember off my head.

>>85776801
Can confirm

>>85776736
masterpiece

>>85776736
SeSevenEn?

>>85776736
only 2 things in movies ever gave me actual nightmares as a kid.. the starving fucker in this who chews out his tongue and the skinny dying lady in pet semetary. went on to marry a lovely chubby girl... thanks se7en.

>>85780236
I don't think they actually show it though? How do we know he wasn't lying?

>>85777063
i think because rape. the knife rape bit. if u look at the movies we have had banned over the years they're mostly pretty rapey.

i thought it sucked

>>85776736
3edge5me

It's good but honestly looking back Se7en and Fight Club are two of Fincher's weakest films. I even prefer The Game to those two movies, which are far more commercially successful.

>>85781111
they show it. i remember this being the first DVD i ever owned and freeze-framing the shit outta uurvythang.

>>85781353
ahoy reddit

>>85778236
>>85776736

John Doe was discovered only because Morgan Freeman's character used his contact at the NSA or whatever to access library records (There was only some brief dialogue that revealed this detail, and it isn't even brought up in the plot description on wikipedia).. Brad Pitt's character also kicked his door down without a warrant. Lol.

The detectives couldn't really get on his trail until they broke their own rules. lol

Pretty interesting since the film came out several years before 9/11.

Wasn't it based on a book that was nothing like the film?

Good flick

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>>85778965
a cat, but you dont know if the cat is alive or dead until you check it and thats why he was so very insistent on asking what was in the box

t. knower

>>85776736
Comfy as fuck, whenever I want to watch something on netflix to fall asleep to I just watch this

>>85777442
Mills was a braindead pig. One of those pigs who'll become an alcoholic after a tough case and blow his brains out. Doe was a genius

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>>85777063
I dont understand either, I mean kids would really have appreciated this scene alot

>>85776793
You're looking for me

>>85781111
>>85781413
this
irrc there's a good ole fincher 'subliminal' quick frame

>>85782343
Yeah, I always hated that deus ex. Otherwise they would have never gotten John Doe caught.

>>85776736

A great thriller with flawed characters. The flaws of the characters are mostly intentional however, and serve to make the film more interesting to discuss. It's also the first real vindication of David Fincher's "edgy" filmmaking style.

Pitt's Mills is a genuinely stupid character. Not working-class, not put-upon by his job. just straight-up dumb.

Doe is inconsistent. Some of this can be attributed to the fact that he was forced to change course, but still.

The murders start out being simple reflections of the sin upon the sinner. The persons who are actually guilty of gluttony are killed by Doe for those reasons, with the initial murder being the archetype, as using the repetition of the sin itself (overeating) as the means of death. No other killing quite matches up to the simple, perfect poetic justice of this prototype. Oh, the lawyer is killed all right, but not exactly in a fashion which /uses/ greed-as-such to kill him.

Things slip a bit with Victor. Victor is set up as an all around bad guy and ne'er do well, but he is never initially set up as some sort of a layabout. In fact, quite the opposite, it sounds like Victor got up to plenty of trouble, which doens't exactly suggest sloth. The point being that Doe /shoehorns/ Victor into his drama, and /doesn't actually select Victor/ to match the sin. This imperfection of Doe's plan actually humanizes the monstrosity in the sense that, just like everyday serial killers, Doe isn't so perfect after all, and really is stupid and inconsistent in his own way.

Cont.

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>>85777063
>don't get why it was rated R

>>85784304

This leaves Lust, Envy, Pride and Wrath.

With Lust, the person who is actually guilty of that particular sin, the John, is not himself killed (prostitutes don't ply their trade because they are horny and need constant dick). The involvement of a third party not actually guilty of the associated sin foreshadows the conclusion.

Pride is a sorta-return to form, as a famous attractive woman of any sort is naturaly prideful, but it gets lost in the shuffle in the transition to the third act and endgame.

Doe's aim at the end is to spring the tweeest (and it is a good one) on the audience, but again, in order to do so, he has to drag others in and be inconsistent with the "archetype". He makes a big thing at the end of turning each sin against the sinner, which he doesn't actually, uniformly do. Doe sets himself up as being the person guilty of Envy in order to make his thing keep going, inviting Mills to become (guilty of) Wrath. We might say that Mills is punished in that he is made to live with his Wrath, and the aftermath, for the rest of his life, but this final sequence is still an inconsistent musical-chairs where the sin-attribution is always one degree removed from who is actually killed, and for what reason. And of course, it entails the Paltrow character's death and her fetus, to whom not even Doe attributes any particular wrongdoing, except a seeming selection of his victim to revenge himself upon the cop who jammed him up.

OTOH Paltrow is a cunt in real life so she does us a great service by taking a role where we get to imagine her head in a box. And she did consider an abortion, itself a most grievous sin (when actually carried out), though Doe doesn't seem to have been aware of this detail.

>>85783149

I've always had a hard time with that scene, which is a credit to Fincher's artistry.

>>85782717
Nah, the film is pretty faithful to the book afaik. The book is much better though. Also, Brad Pitt sucked in this movie.

>>85783149
So this guy was a drug dealer, which was why he was Sloth? He didn't earn money in legal ways?

>>85780950
>Kill Bill and Dawn of the Dead not R in US
wut?

>>85776736
A perfect 5/7.

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So what was john doe's thing with sommerset? I noticed sommerset believes the same thing as him and miles is always portrayed as a naive stupid kid even though he probably had a decade of police work. Also in the speech scene in the car when john says something about miles he looks at sommerset in a 'I know that you know it" way.

>>85784304
victor was a drug dealer, a 'profession' for people who don't want real hard working jobs (at least in doe's mind)
Also the suicided girl followed the prototype, because of her vanity she preferred to no live than to be ugly.

>>85777442
My thought exactly. There are several problems in John's series actually

Why do you punish the prostitute for the sin of Lust?
Why do you puish the sin of Sloth by forcing a man to stay in bed?

>>85784756
I think purveyors of sin counted too, like he went after the hooker instead of the John.

So drug dealers cause people to engage in sloth with their dank weed I guess.

>>85785292
>Why do you punish the prostitute for the sin of Lust?
Are you serious, nigger ? The woman is always guilty, that's basic christian thinking

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>>85784963

>>85780950
Kill Bill surprises me quite a bit. Maybe they were more lenient because it was mostly cartoonish?

>>85784576
Good list. I guess it helps to think John Doe is actually not the kind of serial killer he claims to be. He is in fact closer to what Mills says about him. So he is fine with not doing the poetic justice

>>85776736
CMON TELL ME, WHATS IN THE BAAAAWWWX

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>>85784963
i think i know what you mean, remember in the bar with sommerset and mills when he is talking rather pessimistically about humanity to mills and mills says something like "go move to a log cabiin".

also when g. paltrow talks to sommerset in the diner, sommerset advises against having a baby pretty much i felt ("if you do decide to have the baby, spoil him as much as you can")

i felt sommerset & john doe were kind of coming from the same place but taken to two very different places.


pic related, it's mine

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>>85776736
>Sesevenen
What did Fincher mean by this?

>>85786154
just rewatched the bar scene, after mills finishes, sommerset sits there staring at him in silence, as if insulted by his childishness. idk, I thought sommerset envied mills(which I got from the diner with paltrow scene and when he was invited over irrc) and was the original envy sinner in doe's plan, before the setback, but now that I think how dumb mills really was this theory kinda falls apart.

>>85785681

Kill Bill was an easy R in the USA, look it up. that guy does not know what he was talking about.

an f-bomb, implied ongoing rape of a comatose victim, killing in front of children, constant limb-severing, decapitation, scalping, general extreme violence. That's a solid R by recently modern American hollywood standards, and even a fairly "hard" one, at that.

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You got what you deserved...

>>85780950
>Kill Bill (PG in the US
Are you fucking retarded?

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>>85788376

He's Australian anon, take it easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLDhMU5JvMk
brad pitt was absolute dogshit

>>85786598
Sommerset was looking at life in a more realistic and pessimistic way due to the harsh shit he endured throughout his career, Meanwhile Mills was a rookie Detective and hasn't really faced any terrible shit in life hence is childish optimism. I think the Movie was just using Freeman and Pitt's characters as some sort of Yin and Yang with the former trying to point a realistic POV while the latter in a more Naive look on things

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seven is my fifth favourite movie of all time :^)

>john c mcginley's character is called California

do americans really do this?

>>85788827

That is a respectable list and I wish to befriend you.

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>>85777063
>Dont get why it was rated R

>>85777317
>>85777442
Wrath was Mill's wife. Implication is that when you're full of wrath you end up hurting the people you love.

But yes, it's a silly plan. He just knew the lead detective of the case would have a wife and that he could find out where they live.

>>85788827
IMDBcore af