Was Alex a bad person or was he just living his teen phase?

>>85589406
Movie Alex was just a douchebag redditor

Book Alex was evil incarnate

>>85589481
But that's the exact opposite. Alex grows out of his rebellious phase in the book, while he remains evil in the end of the movie.

>>85589550
>>85589481
This. The movie left out the entire last chapter of the book where Alex is grown up and has reformed.

>>85589406

sociopath

neutral evil

damn i needed to rape more when i was a teen

>>85589550
but the movie ending was shit compared to the book ending

>>85589598
it's never too late

>>85589660
>le happy ending face
cmon now dude
you can't get rid of alexs sociopathic tendencies,hes a piece of shit by nature and cant be reformed

>>85589406
Most teens don't rape a woman to death while singing Singin' in the Rain.

>>85590850
Of course not! They don't know the lyrics

fuck /lit/ and fuck the novel.
kubricks film makes much better sense.

>>85590850
It was pneumonia

He was just a confused and misunderstood fan of Beethoven.

>>85590850
The doctors said it was PNEUMONIA.

I haven't read the book but from my understanding the movie ending sounds 10x better.

Alex reforming would be boring as shit. The movie ending shows how Alex can't be cured and now has the support of the corrupt people who tortured him.

Him reforming would basically make the moral of the story that torturing mentally ill people works and is not immoral

>>85589406
He was a huge faggot who wouldn't last 5 minutes on the streets

>>85589481
Wrong. Also the movie is edgy as fuck, not that the book is much better. Choose one consume it and then move on because its just vapid meaningless shit.

>>85589406
In the las chapter of the book, he gets tired of being a criminal and decides to set his path straight, so I guess it could be said that he was in a phase.

However, beating, raping and murdering people is pretty much beyond just being an edgy teen.

I would say he is a psychopath that eventually gets tired and stops harming people.

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appy polly loggies my droogie for i viddy some hundreds and thousands on the ole chippy chan

>>85589406
Everyone analyzing the book or the movie today is ignorant to what the author was satirizing which was British students from prestigious schools who would go around London and fuck shit up getting drunk and disorderly in public and beating people with canes (which were part of their school uniform) because they felt entitled to since society had told them they were better than everyone else.

>>85589580
when I was young, I took the "and cured I was." line as sarcasm at the end of the kino. but in adulthood now, I feel like it was implied that even though he still had violent fantasies, he was reformed and no longer acted on them.

>>85589406
He was literally a rapist and batterer. Of course he was a bad person.

>>85593169
>Him reforming would basically make the moral of the story that torturing mentally ill people works and is not immoral
retard. the moral of the story is that you can't rewire someone by force. "discipline come frome within" or some shit.

>>85594257
>hurr rape is the same as murder
retard

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read the book at 15 same age as alex was suppose to be yet remember the book mentioning a lost last chapter that had be cut from us editions for yrs yet that booked ended with him back to old drooge self with new names. hansi is more my speed.

I wish more movies had guys who want to rape big titty ladies

it's kino because it's true

>>85590850
if you had sex as a teenager you are basically a rapist. don't try debating me on this just think about why.

>>85594760
wrong!!! maybe you will get laid some day but not if you bring but nonsense like that.

>>85589580
>Alex is grown up and has reformed.
Interesting. I've never read the book, but is he "reformed" like in the movie (I was cured alright) a "good" person like his old friends turned pigs or what?
If the book ends with him being a legit nice guy that's a huge cop out. You don't abandon ultra-violence.

>>85594795
fuck off autist

>>85594222
Youre wrong he was "cured" of his aversion to violence.

>>85594760
Wow you are all kinds of retarded

>>85595123
talk to a mature adult about sex sometime you might change your point of view on the matter

>>85589660
Nope. The book ending completely ruins the story. The movie ending wasn't all that either

>>85593501
thats irrelevant. death of the author you pleb

He was a thoroughly bad person but society made him that way. Which is not an excuse, but it's an explanation. Even though he was absolutely reprehensible he may not have even been the worst person in the movie.

>>85594760
t. virgin

>>85594907
The book implies he grew out of meaningless violence for the sake of it, and is looking towards founding a family. It might mean that he simply abandoned the meaningless drive for violence because it was unsatisfactory and like his ''reformed'' friends he could and probably would enact on it if it was sublimated into something seemingly productive or fulfilling (like being a militsent) or that the drive for stability by forming a family has taken over and sublimated his violent drives into passion towards being parent. I think Burgess much preferred the later, even found it personally insulting the American edition didn't print out the 21st chapter (the edition movie was based of).

Burgess also made one or two musicals/rock operas based on it, just so no-one else would, after Kubrick's version left him bitter.

>>85589406
Kubrick butchered the ending

Rest was kino though

>>85595366
His whole reeducation process is basically being inflicted by adults who have the context to enact their same, perverse, violent tendencies on him. The ultra-violence is there, hidden by worldcasts and what not, but it exists deep in the society. The book poses the question, whether Alex, if he indeed has free will like any other man, chooses to enact on his own outbursts of violence, or if he's completely devoid of choice on that matter, entirely driven by instincts, a man without choice, useless like a clockwork orange.

I've been reading nothing but bleak, pessimistic and angry books lately. I figured I'd get into something more optimistic, but now I feel like I should read the Clockwork book because I love the movie so much. Thanks /tv/.

>>85596960
Read On the Road by Kerouac, if he's your kinda thing. Reading it after Clockwork Orange felt pretty comfy.

In the book, the 2nd one.

In the movie, the 1st one.

This is deliberate, as Kubrick hated the ending of the novel and felt having Alex reform gave people an easy out and cheapened the book's message by not going whole hog and championing freedom even when freedom doesn't turn out so well.

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>>85589406
There's like 3 of these threads, fuck off already to one and stop shitposting.

>>85594907
At the end of the book he sees one of his old gang members with a family and it comes as a wake up call that he needs to get his life together.

>>85594674
?
Care to explain yourself?

was he still crazy about Beethoven in the book or was that something Kubrick when right?

>>85591124
Underrated

>>85589598
Well if you regularly post on /pol/ congratulations you are a sociopath.

>>85594674
But he DID murder someone, idiot. That's the whole reason why he was sent to prison in the first place.

>>85594760
Wow, I guess every single one of my sisters is a rapist then. Should I report them all to the police?

>>85589406
I would say sociopath hits it closest to the head. He's intended to be a dark mirror of the society he's growing up in. Much like The Comedian in Watchmen. He is the type of man that thrives in a broken world.

The tragedy of it all is you KNOW in a different world, he would have been an author or composer, but he became a monster to thrive in a rapidly decaying world.

I like both the book and the movie, but the book was quite a bit better. I like the ending in the book better. In the book, the conditioning wears off and he finds a new gang of droogs and goes back to his old ways. Then he sees his old droog, Pete, in a bar. Pete liked Alex a bit more than the others and didn't have an active hand in getting Alex busted (the other 2 of his droogs from the beginning become corrupt police officers just as evil as their gang days). So he goes over and talks to Pete about his life. Pete had grown up. He had a wife and kids and didn't do crime anymore, it made Alex re-evaluate his life and he decided to do the same and be a normal decent member of society.

There's no doubt that Alex is an evil teen. And there's no doubt that the world made him that way, but a huge question the book/movie raises is who is culpable for that. Sure, Alex to a huge degree, but the parents? Society? And it obviously asks the question if society can force them to be decent, should it or does that come with a cost that's too high?

I really like the movie, and the style and directing is pretty great. But the truth is, it could have been so much better. With all the reboots happening Clockwork Orange in the hands of a great director with a great actor to play Alex could be amazing.

>>85596960
The book is very very very good. I love the movie but the book trumps it. Make sure you get a copy of the REAL book. The last chapter was originally omitted by the publishers in England and then put back in later. It makes it a bit more controversial, and the movie basically ends in the same place as the sanitized book without the last chapter.

It's really fun picking up the Nadsat language and the whole book is written that way. The first chapter you probably won't know what he's saying 30% of the time, but you'll learn the slang he's speaking....

Also, trivia fact, most of the slang is based on Russian terms for the same words, sort of implying that the Cold War may have ended with the Russians being victorious.

>>85589784
he wasn't a sociopath. he was a normal teenager.

>>85600152
>implying that the Cold War may have ended with the Russians being victorious.

They just won the U.S. election by manipulating young sociopaths

>>85600152

>muh book
>just accept rapists and murderers, they will magically change one day so you just have to sit it out until then :^)

>>85594760
Jokes on you, I was eleven.