"Never start a land war in Asia!"

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probably referencing operation barbarassa

>>85018527
Apparently, it's a MacArthur quote

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>>85018654

>German High Command thought the Soviets could only raise 50 divisions in the war
>They raised 821 divisions

Man, the Nazis were retarded.

>>85018527
Quick... Name the successful land wars in asia!
Being asian on home turf confers a +10 bonus to highground.

>>85018781

WW2, Korean War, Vietnam War, Afghanistan War.

>>85018735
>fighting war on two fronts already
>"fuck it, let's get those Russian bastards, in Russia, in winter time"

What could go wrong?

>>85018735
>going to war against a country with a population of 300 million and known for placing no value on human life

what could the Germans have done? Soviets just threw more meat into the grinder until they won.

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semi related because of Wallace Shawn and I cant be bothered to make a new thread

but what do you niggas think of this

>>85018735
Yeah but how many of them had actual training and weren't given just 1 magazine etc. I don't remember the specifics of it all, but man the fucking Russians were literally like zerglings.

>>85018819
it's like (((hitler))) did it on purpose

>>85018831
If it was released today, it would be a JRE episode

>>85018819
>Soviets just threw more meat into the grinder until they won
Yeah it's not like they had the best tank of the war or anything. That's just a coincidence

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>>85018835
>but man the fucking Russians were literally like zerglings

No, they weren't. There was initial chaos and confusion, but the Red Army was well trained and supplied and slaughtered the crack veteran German troops that invaded.

>>85018906
the soviets had a Panther tank?

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>>85018781
?

>>85018735

>Hitler gets tens of millions of white people killed forcing Europe to ship in non-whites to fill in their labor shortage and gets Israel created
>white supremacists still worship him

I don't understand

>>85018811
well the invasion did *start* in the middle of summer but yeah still pretty retarded

Why the fuck not? China would tear continental Asia a new asshole

>>85018735
>the Nazis were retarded.
Its not always a good idea to elect a traumatized amphetamine addled Parkinson's patient as your supreme leader.
But nazi germany was riding high and believing their own hype after conquering most of europe in a weekend and no one wanted to say "no."

>>85018809

those wars were won with planes, helicopters, or bombs

>>85018819
>what could the Germans have done?
Not attacked Russia while being grossly unprepared.

>>85018809
>Korean War, Vietnam War, Afghanistan War.
The one that still hasn't ended, the one we lost, and lol are you fucking kidding me. You're making my point for me.

>>85018956
I'm assuming when that anon says 'best' he's also taking into account the ability for mass-production and reliability, not just who would win in a 1v1.

>>85018819

Actually fucking prepare? The Germans had more horses than trucks in their invasion. If you have to resort to using horses to invade the largest country in the world because you don't have enough trucks, that should be a huge fucking sign not to invade.

>>85019038
>victim blaming
>you see the refugees were because of hitler fighting back against the globalists!
Hail FDR hail Churchill!

>>85018956

>mechanically unreliable tank that took 3 times as long to build and cost 5 times as much as the T-34
>best

wew

>>85019144

We won the Vietnam War. The North agreed to the Paris Peace Treaty and we pulled out. It's not our fault the North broke the treaty and invaded several years later.

And we won Afghanistan by overthrowing the Taliban and destroying Al-Qaeda

>>85019258
Made me laugh out loud

>>85019215
actually during operation barbarossa when the t-34 was introduced, it had a higher rate of break down and malfunction than the panther did during the battle of kursk/operation citadel.

After operation citadel all these flaws were fixed and ironed out. And the tank was actually cheaper to produce than the Tiger despite having the same level of protection.

>>85018912
>No, they weren't.
They did have siberian minesweepers that they just marched through minefields to set them off.
Russia had a good propaganda game and they were fighting for their survival against an enemy that wanted to eradicate them. The russians survived by pure grit until their war insustries were relocated beyond the urals.

>>85018956
>>85018819
>>85018835
Vidya ain't a good source of history, anons. Infographs aren't great either.

>>85019258
>We won the Vietnam War
hahaha

http://thevietnamwar.info/who-won-the-vietnam-war/
>Who won the Vietnam war?
>Objectively, North Vietnam – the communists – who achieved their goals of reuniting and gaining independence for the whole Vietnam won the war whereas South Vietnam under the U.S. support lost the war.

>And we won Afghanistan by overthrowing the Taliban and destroying Al-Qaeda
um hun, the war in Afghanistan hasn't ended yet

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>>85019258
You make me proud to be a burger anon.

>>85019388
>Russia had a good propaganda game and they were fighting for their survival against an enemy that wanted to eradicate them.

Their propaganda was top of the notch. They successfully sold the ridiculous "Hitler wants to eradicate all slavs" delusion to their people despite Hitler having supported nationalist states in Croatia, Ukraine and Belarus, or was planning to do so. The soviets even went as far to build false gas chambers after the war to garner support for israel and hatred for the nazis and make people think the nazis were racists.

>>85019456

>we wasted $1 trillion on Iraq and over 4,000 US soldiers died because of Bush's lies

Why the fuck didn't this faggot ever get charged with anything? Fucker never even got investigated.

>>85019258
Hitler won world war 2 because he had a higher K:D ratio than the Russians. It's not his fault the soviets didn't accept a peace treaty and invaded after he started retreating.

>>85019487
inb4 But Obama/Hillary

>>85019487
>bush's lies

His was a legit retard, he genuinely believed the crap that (((Wolfowitz))) fed him about how Iraq would turn into a beautiful democracy within days and they would greet the american troops with roses.

Just look at him in that picture, look how happy he is. Do you really think that man is lying? He's just a dumb simpleton who should have never entered politics, and was used as a vehicle by backroom men who fed him lies that only a retard like Bush would believe.

>>85019258
>reddit spacing
You didn't win shit.
Your people died for the money aristocracy, only to make them richer.

>>85018819
This T.B.H.

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>>85019258
>burgers will never stop being asspained about Vietnam

I remember reading somewhere that if the Nazis had put more effort into supporting and befriending the states/regions they took over (that the Soviets had been controlling/repressing) then they would've had a good chance to beat the Russians.
Any truth in this?

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>>85019450

What I don't get is how the fuck did America lose the Vietnam war in the Rambo cinematic universe? Why didn't they just airdrop Rambo in the middle of Hanoi by himself and let him go crazy until the war was won?

>>85018735
yea the nazis were really fucking retarded.
Should have just dicked it out in france instead or never even started the war.

Better would have been to befriend the Sowjets for trade n shit.

>>85019258
Lol no. The peace treaty was a ceasefire that was routinely broken by both sides, not a treaty recognizing the legitimacy of the South Vietnamese government. The whole thing was a massive compromise on the US side which wanted an anti communist South Vietnam but the closest thing the treaty to this was for the South Vietnam government to be democratically elected.

>>85019674
The Nazis had no hope of winning at all. America was going to get the bomb by 1945 whatever they did, and FDR was deadset on supporting Britain throughout the war even before Munich.

Hitler's only only hope of winning was maybe if he could have negotiated some kind of status quo antebellum with Stalin in the east and return to the postwar border, and one's left to wonder whether to Soviets will honour that treaty.

Britain still would have refused to negotiate peace and no matter what Hitler did, by 1945 Americans would have had the bomb.

His only hope of winning was if he had never invaded Russia at all and instead focused on the middle east and cutting off the British from suez, put all his country's economy into war in 1940, and spent 3 years building up the navy for a sea invasion of Britain. If he'd successfully captured britain he could have negotiated an armistice like he did with the french and they could have all returned to the status quo antebellum but with Hitler keeping poland.

That still leaves the question of whether Stalin would have eventually attacked him or not. I like to think if he had, Hitler would have won since the Russians sucked at offensive operations during most of the war, unless they had a huge advantage.

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>>85019129
>those wars were won

>>85019737
Because his handlers, and lack of agency.
Rambo III showed that when he's given total autonomy he is capable of almost single handedly beating the russian army.

>>85019674

Yes. The Ukraine could have provided approximately 75 divisions worth of men alone. However, genocide was a major part of the German invasion. The army was often greeted as liberators but then the rear units who were tasked with purging undesirables came in and most populations turned on the Germans (the Baltic states didn't since the Germans were fine with them).

The Nazis did a war and genocide campaign at the same time which is a huge misappropriation of resources.

>>85019927
Except there's litterally no proof of these genocides.

Go ahead and provide some proof (((they))) didn't fabricate.

>>85019463
>Their propaganda was top of the notch.
Still is. Just look at how effective they've been on /pol/ and t_d.

>>85019927
>However, genocide was a major part of the German invasion.

This is bullshit. The genocide in Ukraine was largely carried about Ukrainians themselves against Jews and Poles, the Ukrainians had legitimate reasons for hating the Jews thanks to the genocide they'd just suffered under the NKVD.

Heck, half the guards at concentration camps were Ukrainian volunteers and servicemen. The Nazis had no intention for wiping out ukrainians.

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>>85019980

Yes there is.

>>85019980
lol wrong board cultist faggot.

>>85019980
Soviet records? Testimonials? Eye witnesses? Nazi documents? Five seconds of Google will give you all this shit.
>inb4 everything is a Jewish fabrication

>>85020046
>an underequipped and resource strained army spent bullets shooting civilians and gas cremating the bodies instead of starving them
Yeah sure thing

>>85020122

>an underequipped and unprepared nation invaded the world's largest country
>an underequipped and unprepared nation declared war on the world's largest manufacturing power and largest producer of oil because their buddies bombed their harbor

The Nazis weren't very bright.

>>85020061

show me ONE (1) signed German document from during the war (i.e. not a postwar testimony obtained under torture), showing the order for mass gassing of millions of jews in gas chambers.

>>85019877
>The Nazis had no hope of winning at all.
All they had to do was not push russia over the edge. If they had just consolidated their holdings and not over extended themselves in an ill advised assault that failed on a logistical level they could have squated on most of europe with no one in a position to do anything about it.
But Hitler sealed their own doom by declaring war on the US in a show of solidarity with his japanese allies, giving the US a reason to enter the war in europe. He guaranteed he'd be fighting two fronts against enemies that can outproduce him by a laughably huge margin.

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>>85020228

>>85019038
That's because you're American and don't understand that "white" is an American invention.

>>85020241

Why did Hitler declare war on America anyway? FDR and the American people were fine just supplying the Allies and just wanted Jap blood. I know they were giving the Allies a lot of supplies but I'd rather have the biggest kid on the block making giving baseball bats to my enemies instead of picking one up himself and bashing my head in.

>>85018906
Are you a War Thunder dev?

>>85020241
>declaring war on the U.S

lmao don't tell me you believe this meme. This was nothing more than a formality, they were already at war, they were having naval engagements in the seas and ports, and blockades, and the Americans were attacking German shipping while mass shipping weapons and supplies to the Russians and the Brits.

The idea that everything would have been dandy if he didn't invade is ludicrous. The Americans were itching for a reason to attack him sooner or later, they surely would have found one by 1944. They didn't exactly struggle to find one in 1917, all it took was one fake telegram to mexico.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War

Afghanistan has notoriously been a thorn in the side for invading armies. It's a pain in the ass to get supplies into, and the locals will stab you in the back at any sign of weakness.

>>85019980
No, but you can't deny that the germans were welcomed as liberators when they entered many of these countries and then squandered that good will and human resources with shitty draconian ubermench behavior almost immediately. The whole point of the eastern front was to secure Lebensraum for germany. You don't colonize places with indigenous people and not kick them out first.

>>85020360
see: >>85020419

they were AT war in all but name. The 1941 declaration of war did little to change that especially since it would be years before America would formally invade anyway. Hitler did it because at that time he wasn't so screwed as he would be later, and he thought the Americans would want to fight the japs first anyway, and he thought it might make the Japs attack the Russians on the east.

>>85020263
DELETE THIS

>>85018912
t. Ivan

The Russians died and were captured in droves. They only started getting positive KDRs when they had 3 times the tanks and planes of the Germans in 1944.
I invite you to show me differently though.
Don't make me post the battle of Kiev.

>>85020228
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yi9hT8ES2g
gas chambers not specifically meant but what difference does it truly make, they wanted the jewish race gone

>>85019064
Are you talking China + allies or just China?
Because Russia is mostly in Asia m8, even if you put some of it in Europe

I don't actually know how China and Russia square up to each other in terms of military power nowadays, I'm only assuming Russia is stronger

>>85018527
Asian farmers with outdated weapons are literally the most powerful enemy you can imagine.

>>85020497

Better to have the US shipping food to my enemies instead of carpet bombing my cities, you dunce.

>>85020463
Ukraine was already a shitfest when the Germans marched in, I mean just look at it today, it was an even bigger shitfest then.

You had Ukrainian nationalists, Ukrainian communists, Poles, Jews, Russians, Tatars, all living in the same country with different aspirations all trying to slaughter each other.

The Germans came in and initially allied with the Ukrainian nationalists. When the Ukrainian nationalists declared independence, the Germans arrested them but soon released them. The Germans didn't want to give Ukraine up cause they needed for food not lebensraum, but they still were on pretty good relations with the Ukrainian nationalists and used them as policemen and auxillaries and essentially let them run the towns and cities on a low-key level while maintainin German supervision at the top.

The holocaust and massacres done in ukraine were done by ukrainians to each other, mainly poles and ukrainians and jews to each other. Same deal in poland desu. People pretend it was all Germans, but Slavs probably hated Jews (and each other) a lot more than the Germans did and did their fair share of huge genocides.

>>85020263
Doesn't count. Show me ONE (1) signed German document from during the war (i.e. not a postwar testimony obtained under torture), showing the order for mass gassing of millions of jews in gas chambers in a language that I can read.

>>85020578
having an over abundance of men, material and defensive positions constructed a months before along with cracked German codes didn't even let the Russians have an equal loss ratio to the Germans at Kursk

>>85020419
>This was nothing more than a formality, they were already at war
Limited naval engagements is not war. It's self defense. The american people didn't want to get dragged into another european war, and of those that did it was still split on who's side they supported and American companies were getting rich selling to all sides. FDR wanted to go to war against the axis, which means all his political opposition favored continued isolationism.
Pearl Harbor and Hitler's subsequent declaration was a formality that meant the US could no longer have any illusion of neutrality and the entire economy shifted to support a doctrine of total war.

>>85020263
lol stormfag btfo

won't really matter though since he already assumes everything that doesn't fit his narrative to be fake

>>85020641
>moving the goalpost like this
>show me a german order that was written in english

top kek

>>85020591
China has much much higher defense budget.
But Russia has a slight edge in the "Military Strength Index"

>>85020263
>>85020263
>during the war
>1935

try again shekelyahu

>>85020750
>Limited naval engagements is not war. It's self defense.
The level of cognitive dissonance here is amazing. Both sides were fully aware a state of undeclared war existed between Germany and the US. You can't ship millions of tons of weapons to a nation's enemies and pretend like you're neutral because of some semantics and formalities.
> The american people didn't want to get dragged into another european war,
Of course they didn't, but the government had other plans entirely.

>>85020793

China literally has 10 times the population of Russia. They could take the Russian Far East and there would be nothing the Russians could go about it.

>>85020750
>FDR wanted to go to war against the axis, which means all his political opposition favored continued isolationism.

nope, FDR's opponent was also against isolationism.

Also remember in 1917 the US declared war based on a fake telegram to mexico so it's not like FDR would have struggled to find a reason if he wanted one. He would have just been like "Germany is aiding Japan therefore they are the enemy, DECLARE WAR!!"

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this is considered one of the best visualizations of all time, showing how disastrous napoleon's campaign into russia was

width of the band is the army size
temperature across the bottom (-21 C kek)
major battles are marked
the black line is the retreat

>>85020845
They could fucking nuke them off the map.

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>>85020830
oh so they where planning on doing it before the war too. idk I'm starting to think those Nazis where a bunch of jerks.
>>85020641
not sure if irony or desperation, either way kek

>>85020937

>nuking a country that borders yours
>nuking a country that also has hundreds of nukes

kek

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>>85019258
>we won vietnam
>we overthrow the taliban
>we destroyed al-qaeda and they're not our allies in syria at this very moment, we swear

>>85020845
>They could take the Russian Far East and there would be nothing the Russians could go about it.
They have been. Its a big international strain between the two for years. China is sending people across the border and basically colonizing parts of russia. China just shrugs and says its Russia's internal illegal immigration problem and they can't do anything about it.
You can't discount that china made statecraft an artform while the rest of the world was still squabbling over fiefdoms. They play the long game and look at big pictures.

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>>85018809
>>85019258

>>85021067

I've heard of this. I wonder what Putin's gameplan is. He keeps dicking with the West but the West and the US is pretty much the only effective counter-weight against the Chinese. A weak US/West that can't contain or challenge China means Russia has to deal with the Chinese juggernaut that's literally at their border.

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>>85021067
Excuse me

>>85020937
There's a famous anecdote between mao and stalin laughing off nuclear threat by saying even if thet killed a million people they would just fuck and make more.

>>85020228
Please go back to your containment board

>>85019456
Why do incompetent idiots always do this thumbs up gesture?

>>85021131
And NATO is encroaching on its West.
He has to pick one side over the other.

>>85021172
>He doesnt know about divine mandate and the dynastic cycle
Stay salty round-eye.

>>85020263
>Reichsflagge
>no jews

what did you mean by this

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>>85021386
Is it a divine mandate that involves having different groups of people repeatedly subjugate the 'country' (that changed size and number of states/countries within the area more than once) and its population, then having them massacre half of the old population, then only ending by suffering violent revolution?
I'm not even referring to the focus on westerners, I'm talking about that claim of making statecraft an 'artform'

>>85021553
The joke is on you, gweilo. The heaven mandates that we fertilize the ground with our blood so that future dynasties will be able to reap a bountiful harvest. This is why the west is degrading. No respect for tradition, no desire to sacrifice self to the state, just pure selfishness. You see where it has led your civilization: a decaying corpse that still twitches much like hopping vampires. Be glad that we still let you suckle on our teat.

>>85021877
>‘The last sixteen months have been the most glorious in the history of Europe. Heroism has come back to the earth. On whichever side the men who rule the peoples have marshalled them, whether with England to uphold her tyranny of the seas, or with Germany to break that tyranny, the people themselves have gone into battle because to each the old voice that speaks of the soil of a nation has spoken anew. It is good for the world that such things should be done. The old heart of the earth needs to be warmed with the red wine of the battlefields. Such august homage was never before offered to God as this, the homage of millions of lives gladly given for love of country.’

>>85021553
If only because it's contiguous. The idea that the middle kingdom is a brass ring, and ruling it changes the rulers more than those who are ruled. The new kingdom is built on the foundations of the old. All the while preserved with a written history that has been studied as an academic subject across the span of its history. The closest you really get in western history is the roman empire.

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>>85021067
>China is sending people across the border and basically colonizing parts of russia. China just shrugs and says its Russia's internal illegal immigration problem and they can't do anything about it.
can't control your population without triggering their tribalism toward their neighbors.
>>85021131
>I wonder what Putin's gameplan is.
sow disorder and dissent in the west using a sophisticated messaging dissemination strategy that exploits the anonymity and targeted marketing opportunities of social media, as well as active cyber and traditional methods to sabotage democracy in the west.
>He keeps dicking with the West but the West and the US is pretty much the only effective counter-weight against the Chinese
The US and the west are the ones crippling Russia right now with sanctions. Russia is completely handicapped as long as "globalism" is working against their ambitions. They don't care about countering the Chinese really. They're really kind of counting on them becoming the economic counter-weight to the West.

For instance the call was made that Trump would pull out of the Paris agreement primarily because of the negative long term effect on US economic leadership and innovation, while propping up China to grab the ball the US threw away.
>>85021244
>He has to pick one side over the other.
He picked China. It's been China for years now. Russia has been unambiguously taking active measures against the west since the Ukranian coup against the Russian puppet government over EU membership.

>>85021877
>The only way we can advance is by most of us dying
>Not necessarily by our own hands, of course
Christ, you're almost as bad as the sandniggers
Have fun I guess, chankoro

>>85021991
We're at a point where we don't absolutely NEED to wipe the slate clean to advance though. The only remaining reason to do so nowadays is old ties to conflicts that often only exist because specific rulers want them to.
War and conquest isn't actually necessary to improve humanity, it's just the method that has the most immediate effects

>>85022139
No bai ren, the idea of filial piety is the concept that your action don't reflect on you as an individual, but you represent an unbroken chain of ancestors. Acting rightly is to preserve cultural and historical integrity. The idea that the group is more important than the individual.

>>85022563
Considering that whole culture of selfishness that everyone talks about being a huge problem in China at the moment, I don't think that's working out

>>85020263
This is about the nuremburg laws. Nothing to do with the Holocaust.

>>85018906
The Sherman was the best tank though.

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>>85022693
Not an order but an very explicit report of executed Jews in the Ukraine

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https://youtu.be/uWd6XgBVIcg

This is unironically my favorite song of the summer

>>85022725
the t-34/85 is a better tank than the sherman, and the Tiger 1 was better than the t-34/85

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>>85022950
>providing evidence to a holocaust denier
might as well take a flat earther skydiving. It may be fun and you may unambiguously prove your point but they'll still find a way to pretend it doesn't count

I mean, when you really think about it this all really is just an ongoing deliberation over the individual vs the group and what kind of goals we want to set for ourselves as a species.

We're all capable of breeding with each other, and at some point soon all our genetics will be understood and manipulatable, there's no point in obsessing over regional variance and the cyclic nature of empires and cultures.

Something that's going to be very important very soon is how far we are going to let technology fundamentally alter ourselves as a species, and what we will use our new capacities for.

Pretty much all our preconceived notions and history will be a poor preparation for issues like genetic warfare, extending lifespans, and environmental instability, it's going to completely overhaul even our most trusted foundations, and we should probably try to prepare for it. Something like altruism is going to be the new religion of the future, enabled by technology.

>>85022950
Right that's fair + square evidence.
You gotta make sure your shits all filed up proper otherwise you give wehraboos more room to manoeuvre.