Silence is kino in its purest forms.

It was pretty good, but it wasn't mind blowingly great or anything.

>>84817049
This movie still sticks in my mind. That says something. I'm still conflicted about the message but it really is one of his best films.

>>84817049
"Step on your Jesus"

>>84817049
It was great but it's not capeshit and there's no opportunity for /pol/ bait threads so nobody on this site will talk about it.

>>84817844
pretty much. It took a while to get a good thread about A Cure for Wellness too. Any Christfags have their faith tested by the movie?

I think the release and marketing was poorly done in that it was released slightly too late to gain any award season traction or hype, it wasn't heavily advertised on tv or in the theatre. If I recall there wasn't even a trailer for it until the month of its release. From what I heard it kept getting pushed back for editing or something else so it is not like there was a fully finished film to do the rounds leading up to release. Also when I saw it my theatre was only presenting one showing each day and that was at 10:30 pm.

Because of the lack of discussion or attention paid towards it, its difficult to figure out what part the subject matter and themes played into its reception. If it was involved in award talk and nominated for a bunch of shit then it would have gotten more attention, instead it simply fell through the cracks.

>>84818213
I honestly think there was a lot of Hollywood bias because it involved colonialism and christianity. I'm not a /pol/ idiot but there is definitely industry bias.

>>84818278
I could understand that playing a part in its release and marketing, whether that simply be not knowing how to advertise it or not wanting to. The fact that any bias, if there was any, seemed to take place before the movie came out, rather than when it came out, makes it challenging for me to make sense of. There really just wasn't any talk about it when it came out, good or bad. So it isn't the case that it came out and was shot down by critics with a bias.

In terms of award snubs it is hard to tell if bias played a large part in it. Was it snubbed or forgotten because of bias about the subject matter or was it snubbed or forgotten because it was released slightly too late to be in consideration and build hype?

>>84817049
>white people as the good guys?
oh boy, i don't think you got the film. And the mainstreammedia didn't talk about this movie because the mainstream wouldn't enjoy such a movie. On the other hand we had some great discussions on this board. But you probably didn't see these threads because there were about 10x more threads about how boring this movie is.

>>84817049
Great film, recommend everyone on this shit board to watch it

>>84817049
Apparently trying to convert the local population into your religion is ok by OP...
mfw /pol/

did they get to bang their widowed Jap wives?

File: file.png (612KB, 800x533px) Image search: [Google]

612KB, 800x533px

Garupe didnt deserve to go out like this

>>84817049
After watching it I still haven't decided which of the two is more of an abomination. Holy shit they're ugly-ass motherfuckers.

>>84817049
Unexpected brilliance
I'm so bored of Scorsese but he keeps impressing me with his films. It's getting annoying

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXfMqG6d_yo

>>84817049
>if this film was about Jews, /tv/ would hate it.
>film is about persecuted Christians, so they love it.
Really rattles the ol' brain box.

>>84819528
pretty sure you didn't watch the film anon

>>84818213
It was a bit too ambiguous for awards-b8
The "villains" turned out to be justified, the protagonist is "broken" and it tests the limits of Christian faith.
>tldr; it makes audiences think

>>84819628
I did, and I liked it. But my point still stands: retards on this board spent weeks baiting about it for the very reason I mentioned, no matter how accurate it was to the film.

The horrendous acting ruined it

>>84817049
Mainstream media didn't like it's story of Christian evangelists. Christians didn't like it because Andrew Garfield's and Liam Neeson's characters turned out to be a couple of cucks who denounced their Lord and Savior before men and desperately tried to rationalize it.

ty for the suggestion op i'll watch it soon

>>84820112
>who denounced their Lord and Savior before men and desperately tried to rationalize it.
I think you interpreted that incorrectly.

This movie was boring drivel. Easily the director's laziest effort and proof that father time is taking its toll on his abilities. And thats before the wooden acting from everyone but Driver

>>84817049
This was one of the few places I saw talk about this movie on the internet, it was pretty good though would have preferred a different lead actor

>>84817096
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCKwtUXyU1k

umm no sweetie....

>>84817049
I berieve it is pronounced Sirence.

It was pretty good, CREEESCHSCHIAAANN

I'm an atheist but I loved this movie (idk why I just tend to love things with christian symbolism)
Can some christian explain something to me?

Would apostatising and giving up your own place in heaven to protect others not be considered the ultimate sacrifice? Wouldn't that be the most christian thing to do?
And wouldn't refusing to apostatise, leading to others being tortured or killed, be a form of pride - which is sinful?

That's what the movie made me think of and IMO was the discussion it was trying to raise about faith.

File: menacingly.jpg (17KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 480x360px

>>84819314
>tfw your only friend dies
>you're stuck with a bunch of crazy japs around you

>>84821975

Meant to reply to him >>84819229

>>84821572
I don't think so. The movie itself tries to rationalize their choice of denying Christ and ties itself in knots doing so, as if what they did was somehow okay in their circumstance. Not only did they reject their own martyrs crown but they didn't let their japanese followers receive a martry's crown either.
>But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven.
Hollywood doesn't really understand martyrdom or how anyone could have such faith (like the real historical martyrs in Nagasaki) so it tries to make movies to rationalize it.

APOSTASISE

>>84822066
You sound autistic, the whole point of the film is questioning the logic of martyrdom, not sucking martydom's cock. Garfield survives, he lives. Everyone else he knew was killed by their beliefs but he survived and felt shitty for it. He wrestles with if he made the right choice. Can't really perpetuate your beliefs if you get killed for them, kiddo.

>>84822066
>Hollywood doesn't really understand martyrdom
Probably because martyrdom is retarded.

I've stopped for a bit because I need to do stuff but as a chinese japanese speaker, I'm very impressed by the settings
St. Paul's College in Macau seemed like it was faithfully replicated and the japanese jesuit bumoing into a person at the tavern which caused the guy to ask him "what are you doing?!" in cantonese felt right

>>84817049
Was the Japanese speech have English subtitles?

I watched this in Japan so I only understood when they spoke English

>>84823035
sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't

>>84821748
That would depend on whether or not those being tortured/killed are other self-professed Christians.

If they are, going apostate serves no purpose, as suffering and death are part of all men's due on Earth.

If they aren't, then your willful refusal is condemning other souls to Hell. Render unto Caesar's that which is Caesar's.

>>84817844
no waifu-bait either.

>>84822228
There is no single message of this movie, after Garfield's apostasy the movie is in coda mode. The final ten minutes are for you to reflect on what being a good, bad, or any sort of Christian is without the movie showing you what these men truly believed in their years as apostates.

>>84824452
That's basically what I said...

>>84824482
No it isn't... sweetie...
You said the rest of the movie was him wrestling with doubt and put forward ideas of what he was thinking. I'm saying the movie didn't tell us anything, it gave us sequences to ponder on without telling us what the characters were thinking at all. There was no ambiguity on the virtue of martyrdom, Driver did much more for Christians than Garfield did, it's more about what being a Christian is and can be, how far it can be stretched.

>>84824633
>You said the rest of the movie was him wrestling with doubt and put forward ideas of what he was thinking
The doubt at the end is literally the uncertainty with the message you stupid retard.
>There was no ambiguity on the virtue of martyrdom
Yes...there is. It's the entire point of the movie.

Holy shut, bud. Did you really not understand the film at all? The whole thing was to make you question the virtues of...well...Christian virtues.

>>84824633
>There was no ambiguity on the virtue of martyrdom
Literally was the point of the movie, that there is. Why can't people understand or handle nuance anymore? It's like capeshit has rotted all your brains into literalists.

>>84824717
>>84824780
All the characters who martyred themselves were unambiguously heroic. The questions were about asking others to be martyrs was the question. People who refused to be martyrs were not necessarily seen as bad, just ambiguous. The question wasn't if martyrdom was bad, it was if not-martyrdom is good. Quit having fat Black cocks up your asses just because you can do baby's first thematic reading.

Great movie but Portuguese aren't white

>>84824986
>All the characters who martyred themselves were unambiguously heroic
Says you, the movie doesn't. The movie is literally the question of the virtue of martyrdom. Just because you personally are a christcuck who likes the idea of suicide for a religion, doesn't mean the film does. The film is not telling you how to feel about martrydom you halfwit.

>>84824986
>The question wasn't if martyrdom was bad, it was if not-martyrdom is good
You sound seriously retarded, matey.

>>84825008
t. Alberto Barbossa

>>84825045
The drama of the movie came from witnessing extreme examples and frequencies or martyrdom, it was about the struggling to maintain faith while enduring God's silence. Garfield was broken after his apostasy, even if he kept his crucifix.
>>84825071
There's nothing less valuable than someone who can only insult people. You're a hack.

>>84825289
>The drama of the movie came from witnessing extreme examples and frequencies or martyrdom, it was about the struggling to maintain faith while enduring God's silence.
Half right. But again, the movie is built in a way to make you question of "is martydom worth it?" You are an enormous idiot if you missed this blatant narrative message.

I cringed everytime they said Father Ferreira.

>I'm Portuguese

Otherwise, a great movie.

>>84825289
No, he became a true martyr and not a poser fame seeker.

File: 1498889495771.gif (930KB, 270x270px) Image search: [Google]

930KB, 270x270px

It was probably my favorite movie that year

I watched it in theaters on opening day and there was only one other guy there. Yet the latest capeshit will have full house.
Silence was Kino.

File: 1445717078054.jpg (14KB, 193x270px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 193x270px

>>84819528
>people like movies about their own culture
>people don't like movies about cultures they hate

>>84821748
I think the implication is that by apostatizing you would be abandoning the other people. They would see it as God abandoning them or see that it is okay to apostatize themselves. I don't think it is as simple as making it a utilitarian discussion. Though the pride question is one that I think the film made quite explicit.

>>84825774
I was at the second showing in my city and there were 6 people there

>>84825777
>I literally hate Jews to the point where I can't watch a movie about Jews without making ten spam threads
>but the same persecution film is fine when Christians do it!
You are a hypocrite, it's ok.

I have seen some people saying that the movie is morally ambiguous. It's not. Japanese are wrong in this movie. They are evil. In the name of defending their culture they violated universal human right

>>84825777
>I hate Jewish culture.
>I think this is rational.

Just got on this sub. Whats kino mean specifically (or slang) in this context?

>>84825992
Then you are dumb.

>>84825992
>illegally enter a country that doesn't want you there to spread your cult beliefs forcibly on a people who don't want you around
>repeatedly ask Christians to leave, they don't
>get surprised that Christians are killed

>>84826043
Its slang for interracial porn. In this case gay interracial between the White man and the Japanese.

>>84822938
Every Asian sees the tiny bit of Asia shown in the movies.
T. Taiwanese.

>>84826043
Kino
Cinema
Film
Movie
Flick
Joint

>>84825992
Universal human rights didn't exist in this time period, also the "universal" human rights were decided on by Western governments based on Western culture and ideals.

>>84826293
>only the West came up with the concept of human rights
Do /pol/faggots really believe this?

>>84826092
the inquisitor jails and tortures his own people. It's not ok even in the name of national security.

>>84817049
Pretty bad desu, and I'm honestly not trying to be controversial.

The movie was paced like Age of Ultron or something. It was just awful. It's not that it was unnecessarily drawn out (though it was), it was just poorly structured. I suspect this was an aesthetic choice made to distort the viewer's sense of time, but it was way off mark for me.

I thought the movie's thematic content didn't go far beyond the same hoary old Catholic themes I've seen/read/heard literally hundreds of times before (the character of Kichijiro was particularly egregious in this regard).

Neeson was seriously underwhelming, and Garfield's performance was absurd and totally lacking in subtlety. The bizarre pseudo-Portuguese accents they chose for the two leads was ridiculous to the point of being laughable.

The movie didn't really show 'colonialists' as good guys, since a) missionaries weren't colonialists by most reasonable definitions of the term, and missionaries to Japan *certainly* weren't, and b) Inoue had time to say his piece at the end, and his point of view certainly wasn't presented unsympathetically. I think the viewer is supposed to consider the fact that Japan's more recent (20th century) prosperity was tied to its ability to keep Western influences out for so long.

>>84817844
I mean, I agree with what you're saying, but something about this defeatist attitude is pissing me off right now. It's probably just because the thread actually got replies.

Also, if you think this movie has a 'pro-trad' message, or whatever, you must have fetal alcohol syndrome or something.

>>84818278
I doubt it was bias, it's just industry shit. It got nominated for best cinematography. It's likely that most Academy members just didn't like it. Critics seemed to generally enjoy it, but the fact that it didn't do too well commercially likely played a role in its being snubbed totally. The Academy seem to care about such things.

>>84826433
The U.S. killed two of its own citizens and his 16-year old son (separately, he wasn't with his dad) back in 2011. Look it up.

This isn't including prisoners who get the death penalty, either. In Japan, it was a crime to be Christian. The inquisitor was jailing and torturing his own people, sure, but in Spain the Inquisition at that time was still officially going, and it hadn't declined sharply yet like it did in the 18th century.

The shit Inoue did in Silence wasn't evil at all, by the standards of pretty much every other state on the planet, from the Mughals to the Ethiopians to the Bourbons or Cromwell's England.

>>84826293
>implying you are ok with what the Inquisitor was doing
ok. Universal human right only applied to the west . But this movie is an American movie. the movie never asked us to justify the tortured the Japanese committed

File: 678587587.png (142KB, 376x211px) Image search: [Google]

142KB, 376x211px

>>84822136
Underrated post.

>>84817049
It's doubly weird when you consider who directed it

As if he's a small time nobody or something.

Also I am now aware Driver is actually a great fucking actor. I wanna see that shit with him and Tatum.

>>84826446
>Critics seemed to generally enjoy it, but the fact that it didn't do too well commercially likely played a role in its being snubbed totally. The Academy seem to care about such things.
Since when does the academy care about what does well commercially? They are famous for being out of touch with that kind of shit

>>84826376
>Libcuck thinks that his tears will change history
Rest of the world just accepted those rights.

File: black movie man.jpg (79KB, 500x747px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 500x747px

Gotta agree with /ourguy/ on Silence.

>>84818136
I heard that was through and through god awful

Should I give it a torrent?

>>84826587
They are all evil and in violation of universal human rights.

If not why do we even bother. We can all go back to do whatever we want.

>>84826676
>It's doubly weird when you consider who directed it
the guy who directed kundun & The Last Temptation of Christ? lol

>>84826916
No, the guy who directed Goodfellas and The Wolf of Wall Street!
I kept waiting for the Rolling Stones to start playing and a murder-montage to break out lol

>>84817049
Saw this movie with my mom. I was going to go on my own but when I mentioned it to her she was interested in going. She was expecting some sort of feel-good type religious movie. If it weren't for the fact that I drove her there she probably would have walked out.

>>84827001
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6bIV1U85kY

>>84819314
Man, that Adam Driver-looking guy in this review seems salty as fuck about this movie.

>>84826700
When I say they care, I mean they tend to care about whether a movie is profitable. I don't mean they like a movie when it's particularly profitable, though frequently they do (e.g. Titanic, Avatar being nominated)

>>84826750
>everyone who disagrees with me is a libcuck!
What you are saying doesn't make ajy sense, mate.

>>84826790
it's worth watching for the cinematography alone.

I can't get a clear answer from the thread. are the Christians shown to be good, evil, or just in a subjective way?

>>84827258
>Adam Driver-looking guy
he looks like mickey mouse

>>84827226
perfect

>>84827615
watch the film you fucking faggot

>>84827615
watch it yourself, we can't answer for you since it means different things to different people

>>84827803
so it's subjective then?

>>84827879
there's clear villains/protagonists in this movie (as they're portrayed) but when you question the motives on what happened historically and this movie you sort of understand it from both sides

>>84817049
This film did a great job taking a scene of a character telling the audience about a philosophical/religious problem and making it a bombshell moment. I guess I hadn't read up on my theology enough for this kino, because the whole concept that the Japanese had been misinterpreting the meaning of God/Deus was a great twist. Really the whole dilemma throughout the movie was a compelling one. To believe in the Christian God, don't you necessarily also believe that God holds dominion over the whole world? Can you allow for some parts of the world to exist outside of that dominion? The concept of Ferrera and Rodriguez losing their faith the moment they are confronted with the failure to spread Christianity was powerful.
What did Rodriguez believe in the end?

>>84827615
The Christians are definitely not shown to be evil, I can say that much with certainty.

File: 1499310973338.jpg (61KB, 820x820px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 820x820px

>>84826433
It's almost like they should have just left Japan...

>>84821664
This is what happens when you are both autistic and retarded.

>>84828108
Nobody is "evil" in Silence.

>>84821664
unironically kys

>>84828059
Your misinterpretation point is a great one
Without having read into this much, it feels like christianity was well received by the poor peasant class because salvation, forgiveness, paradise after death is like a reward which pays off compared to all the poorness and suffering they go through in life. Their eagerness for symbols of christianity like wicker crosses, rosemary beads and pictures of the lord, anything that's a real symbol outweighs their faith and misinterpretations of the scripture whether it be through bad translations or the lack of real priests....great movie, lot's of thought

>>84827615
It's more a statement about the rigidity of the established church and conversion than about who is in the right or wrong.

By the way, totally sold on Adam Driver being a legit actor after this

>>84827615
>I can't decide for myself, tell me what to believe!

Buddy, do I have a religion for you

>>84828962
He wasn't bad but didn't really knock my socks off. Kinda wish we got to see the version of the film with Benicio, Gael Garcia Bernal and Day-Lewis.

>>84828504
>it feels like christianity was well received by the poor peasant class because salvation, forgiveness, paradise after death is like a reward which pays off compared to all the poorness and suffering they go through in life
Not him, but you should read some Nietzsche. He posits literally exactly what you just said, calls Christianity a "slave morality" claiming that it was formulated in a response to the slave masters. It'd take too long for me to sum up the entire book, but it's all in Beyond Good and Evil

File: 1498415036634.png (653KB, 1381x1809px) Image search: [Google]

653KB, 1381x1809px

>>84829585
>turns a question about a movie into a vague critism of Christianity
Buddy, do I have some headgear for you.

i agree, i enjoyed it a lot

>>84829766
Why do you assume Christianity is the religion I was criticizing?

>>84830009
because it was. if you claim otherwise your bullshitting. you fags are too scared to attack any other religion and your still filled with teenage angst against Christianity specifically because your mom forced you to go to church that one easter.

>>84825375
> the movie is built in a way to make you question of "is martydom worth it?"
No, it was to make you question if garfield's apostasy was worth it. He lives the rest of his life racked with guilt for aiding the persecutors of Christianity in Japan while still secretly believing in it himself. The question is whether "living" at all costs is worth it if you lose your soul.
>>84825610
Sure mate, all the Christian martyrs of history were posers

File: 13599888716.jpg (22KB, 400x309px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 400x309px

>>84828504
>rosemary beads

>>84817049
Its a shitty all over the place film. The missionaries got cucked immensely.

>>84830150
this guy is right.

Also, not a great movie, it was stuck somewhere that had neither compelling enough characters neither enough historical context

Garfield's character is barely explored outside of what is happening to him, and we're not given enough explanation on the era to truly form an opinion

Neither of these issues are bad by themselves, but it prevented me from being drawn in the movie

>>84830150
Yes and again...it's a question on what the purpose of martydom is. You are simply wrong, kiddo. The movie isn't telling you that martydom is great or even something you should do. Just fuck off already, Christcuck.

It was my MOTY 2016.

>>84821664

hey u want scans of that king kong book still? check ur video

>>84828504
The whole "symbolic faith vs. 'higher' faith" argument is the core of the film, basically, which makes the ending very interesting. It seems like, at the end, the conclusion Rodriguez came to was that symbolic faith was useless after seeing how he and other missionaries had accidentally led the Japanese astray by using those symbols, which failed to resonate in any universal sense and instead created this strange "false" Christianity rooted in Japanese spirituality. Ferrera seems to conclude that because they are unable to spread Christian faith to this country, the Christian God cannot actually exist, but Rodriguez seems to just put himself through the ultimate test of faith by trying to hold onto his beliefs internally while rejecting them in every external/symbolic sense.

>>84832975
The core of the film is people trying to convert foreign cultures without understanding anything about said foreign cultures. Then blaming their failures upon the would-be converts. Then needing to be tortured and for others to be tortured because of them to get them to even pretend to take responsibility.

>>84832975
It's me again
Feels like Ferreira and Priest Andrew Garfield in the end gave up because their christianity wasn't well adapted by the japanese people. When he was brought out to meet the daimyo's one of them had a really good point that a crop that grows in one type of soil might just wither and die in another made something in my head click like, I finally understand both sides. The people of japan were not ready to adopt it because their understanding of the core concepts were without historical context, and the shogunate rejecting made it doubly a losing battle from the start. Even now in the 21st century where Japan is westernized/modernized, there are only one million out of 130mil who are catholic/christian/protestant/etc. When you think back to the 1600s, you can't properly teach a splintered religion with no real community

>>84832975
I don't think this 'symbolic' faith thing really makes sense, nor does your interpretation of Rodrigues' actions at the end of the film. Helping Japanese authorities persecute Christians can't be justified as a 'test of faith' by any real Christian, even if the 'Christians' one is persecuting aren't strictly in line with church doctrine.

I think the movie is about the torture endured by those who felt they had to strictly follow church doctrine to the letter and believe in an ultra-confined God whose powers and laws are clearly delineated not by scripture alone (which is frequently rather vague and receptive to interpretation), but by 'official' theologians who have been given their authority through some Earthly means or mediator.

I suspect the contradiction between the Japanese's obviously sincere belief and their flouting of doctrine was too much for Ferrera to handle, while Rodrigues made a similar leap of faith to that of the Japanese -- he chose to do something that was apparently impossible to justify through any traditional doctrinal means, but stubbornly clings to his faith regardless, hoping that God will forgive not only him, but Kichijiro and the sacrilegious Japanese. That God's mercy will be great enough to pardon those, like Kichijiro, for whom he gave up his life and well-being, and great enough to pardon him, a traitor far worse than Kichijiro could ever be.

I agree that the relics embody the frequently erroneous beliefs of the Japanese, and that Rodrigues' choices at the end of the film represent his rejection of the importance of these relics. I think the perceptions the natives have of the relics is colored by their receiving them from a real priest (someone who bears real doctrinal power, and is capable of, say, baptism).

>>84833241
Silence isn't one of those movies going "look at the failure of those stupid historical figures, if only they knew the way real life is like us today!" It takes the main characters and their intent seriously, though it thoroughly interrogates the flaws in their praxis.

>>84833265
based spoilerposter

Yeah, that's the essence of it. What's interesting to me is to what extent Ferrera and Rodriguez each gave up. It seems like the failure of missionary work cut Ferrera right to the center of his faith and made him give up religion, while Rodriguez found a way to adapt and hold onto his faith in the end. Maybe recognizing that like the Japanese were worshipping an entirely different God than intended, Rodriguez himself had gotten lost in all the symbolism.

>>84833265
Nah, you're wrong. Plenty of people in Africa, India, and Latin America were able to 'understand' catholicism without any 'historical context'. The reason Christianity never caught on in Japan was because of its ruthless persecution. In terms of percentage, there were likely (though stats aren't exact) more Christians in Japan near the end of the 16th century than there are now. Most of them just got killed in the ensuing 50 years.

However, the spread of Christianity can frequently be used to 'prime' a local population for European rule, as the history of colonialism has taught us again and again. Japan was tactically correct to identify its connection with Portuguese trade in the region, and to ruthlessly expel both from within its borders. Whether it was morally justified in doing so is another question entirely.

It looks interesting but Garfield puts me off it.

>>84833265
The kirishitan cult was created by the first batches of jesuits who, lacking anything resembling the necessary fluency in japanese to explain anything beyond physical concerns, ended up converting people to a pagan cult that used christian iconography.

The japanese, for a while, put up with this, as said jesuits also opened the door to several nations with advanced weaponry (the arquebus) who would only trade with christians. This was pretty important to the japanese, as during this period the japanese people were divided into more than a dozen different warring factions.

So, christians came to japan, spoke the language about as well as a particularly slow child, tried to tell people about their idiotic sounding religion (as remember, slow children trying to talk about men who live in the sky, did literally everything, had a kid, and that kid is the sun, but they're also the same person, along with a third person, and how the sun only rises every three days) and, if not for the fact they had guns to trade, would have been treated as crazy people. So they were humored for a while. Warlords forcibly converted their subjects to something that vaguely resembled Christianity so they could get guns, and the jesuits were happy with this.

Then a few generations later japan's warring lords period ends and suddenly the dominant government comes to view christians as elements of foreign subversion, and thus seeks to stabilize their country against such things.

>>84833612
Genuine thanks for the info, based historyposter

>>84833535
So I'm guessing you're discounting what I mean by historical context by the use of quotes, what I mean is I feel like people need to know the history of Christianity like where it began, where it has spread to, what challenges it has had to face in order to get to this point for them to understand the scope of what it represents and what it should mean to them.
The padres in the movie enter Japan (smuggled) with no scripture or texts and therefore have no reference material for the japanese to understand. Their Japanese was poor, the Japanese believers' english was poor, there were many misinterpretations made by the believers (ie. the couple's kid was getting baptized and the woman asks "so now he gets to go to paradise right?", or Kichijiro's cycle of denouncing his faith, asking for forgiveness, sinning, asking for forgiveness, etc.)

I fell asleep

>>84827615
they're trapped in their beliefs, they are beyond good and evil (R)

>>84833716
what the hell good would some scripture (written in latin) do for people who can barely speak japanese in their attempts to get a pagan suicide-by-proxy cult to understand the finer points of a monotheistic religion? Especially considering these jesuits don't actually really care if people really get the religion.

Inoue said it best, japan's fluency in portugese was better than the jesuits fluency in japanese, and this was presented in literally every interaction the jesuits had with the japanese.

It was a clear cut case of jesuits thinking the japanese were idiots, then having to learn the very, very hard lesson that it was they who were in the wrong the entire time, and their mistakes basically turned japan away from Christianity for centuries, if not forever.

>>84819649
>The "villains" turned out to be justified
What?
How so?

>>84834180
read the thread. Historical context puts the Japanese cleanly in the right.

I liked it because it was Scorcese not being tied down to his usual forms with the fast paced editing, the camera angles, relying on a rock and roll soundtrack, and etc.

It was a real story solely focused on the characters and what the priests went through. It was about a test of faith and the clash of cultures without making the Japs look like complete monsters. I was never bored with it.

I was wondering if Garfield would betray his faith or find a way out.

Imho the core of the movie is ego vs consciousness. For most of the movie garfield was able to go through all the adversities because he has seen a christ in himself, he went through an ego trip and being "like christ", was the thing that kept him going. neeson shattered that by pinpointing that as well as that it was never about christianity, it was about sun + existence not sucking after death. After that garfield switch to scorcese's version of true faith which was silent suffering with your faith for the rest of your life. Personally I don't agree that it neceserrily has to be suffering but the jesus part caught me off guard and overall pretty decent movie if you view is as one about faith and not about one side being right or wrong.

>>84834359

It was about the test of faith and how strong it is to Garfield's character. Is his faith in god higher than the suffering of other people. What would have Jesus done to help those being suffered? Would he renounce his father to save these people from torture.

>>84817049
>Because of its trad message showing """""""colonialist"""""" white people as the good guys?
If you actually thin that's the message of the movie or what it's about, you didn't get it, fucking idiot.

>>84834401
The only way it would've been a test of faith is if the characters believed they could convert people to a full understanding of Christianity without knowing their language or culture. As if religious conversion happened via osmosis. As that was all that was truly in contention. The japanese viewed the pagan suicide by proxy kirishitan cult as a threat and foreign trade of advanced weaponry as destabilizing, and sought to shut down both.

If you want to go further, if the jesuit's faith was that they were acting as God commanded, then this would mean questioning their actions was questioning God. This would have also been a belief that was being tested. But painting the jesuits this way doesn't exactly paint them in the most positive light.

>>84824633
you just said sweetie

you now have no argument, you fucking subhuman

>>84817049
The movie fails where a movie like the mission succeed.
Instead of helping the people, the jesuites in the movie are a burden to the japanese. They contribute in nothing apart from religion. Instead they are quite parasitic, they require food , put them in danger and gigantic pressure both from god and their daymio. And they re so stubborn they can't acknowledge the politic point of view from the japanese leaders. In the end, it try hard to depict the jesuite as good guys but proves the opposite. well that's how i pierceved it and why i disliked it.