Who was in the wrong here?

captain america, he's so fucking self righteous and arrogant

Cap.

He lied to Tony and sheltered Tony's parents' assassin because "MUH FRIEND".

He also thought he was above international law.

>>84816492
The Jews

>>84816492
this is so gay compared to the Batman v Superman fight

Cap

the audience for watching

>>84816510
>>84816537
>>84816597
>hurr let's give up all of our autonomy as heroes to the hydra-infested corrupt US government, there's no possible way this plan could backfire!
Tony is retarded. He basically used Cap's argument in Iron Man as a justification for why he shouldn't be obligated to hand over his suit specs to the military.

They both made good points but I sided with Tony's POV better.

the hypocrite that is Captain America

>>84816537
>Tony chimps out and tries to kill Bucky as revenge even after seeing film footage that objectively showed that Bucky did it under mind control, against his will
Defend this

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>>84816492
>Who was in the wrong here?
To be honest, both.

Cap, for protecting a war criminal (he got brainwashed, ok... but he's still a criminal in the eyes of any court around the globe). And it's virtually impossible to be a hero while protecting death sworn guys.

Tony for transforming Avengers into gov's puppet. You can't be a hero when your "boss" is one of the baddest guys around, with guys like Ross and shit like that.

In the very end, collateral damage will always happens - they are not gods. The great point here is how they should act like heroes. Vision said that dumb line about power, but it's bullshit (evil will always be around, no matter what).

So, only way the Avengers to exist is going ROGUE, operating in the shadows - almost like Batman did in Year One. At least, in a forced way, Cap did this in the post-scene, going to Wakanda.

>>84816663
How is Captain America a hypocrite

>>84817164
>huuurr we dont keep secrets from the team tony
>oh that... yeah thats different

Cap was wrong
Tony was right

Cap's thing is that he thinks he knows better. That's why he ought to have the power to make unilateral decisions.
He ought to choose how the Avengers are used and who are the bad guys
He chooses whether Tony can handle how his parents really died.

Cap makes choices for other people.

Tony recognizes that people make mistakes, especially him. The Avengers are too powerful to let them make their own decisions. They need oversight.
Even if the government is often wrong, it's the best thing they got

>>84817158
Cap was only protecting Winter Soldier because people wanted to shoot him on sight or return him to Hydra's clutches. The guy needs rehabilitation, not an execution.

>>84817266
>Even if the government is often wrong, it's the best thing they got
But isn't the US a front for Hydra in the MCU?

>>84816492
Captain America view

Lets not allow the UN, which is notorious for not acting, to decide where the most powerful warriors do and do not go. Lets make these decisions ourselves because we are the only ones who truly know what we are capable and not capable of, and our power should not be at the beck and call of a government.

Iron Man view

Remember those two times we literally saved the entire world from complete and utter destruction/ annihilation at the hands of alien race? Well less than 100 people died because of collateral damage so we should totally be reigned in because we are literally Hitler for letting those people die in order to save the entire planet from total annihilation. We are not qualified to decide what our power is to be used for, only a committee of officials who arent even elected and directly represent the interests of their own goverments should decide where we go and what we fight for.
I created Ultron so i will drag every one else down with me when i should be the only one who takes any blame because it was literally all my fault and nobody elses because im a fucking moron.

>>84816537
>he thought he was above international law
They are.
If someone saves the world from total destruction twice i would be inclined to trust them a little more than the god damn UN.

>>84816781
YEAH, LET'S EXPECT TONY TO BE CHILL ABOUT THE GUY STANDING NEXT TO HIM MURDERING HIS PARENTS, GREAT JOB ANON ARE YOU A BIG TIME SCREENWRITER, DON'T LIE I KNOW YOU ARE

>>84816492
Me, for paying to see this piece of shit. At least it was in a discount theater.

>>84817413
Remember that time Tony created an AI that shutdown the Internet for a few days causing trillions of lost money and how it tried to destroy the world and succeeded in destroying a small country?

>>84817413
>They are.
You don't get a Get-Out-Of-Jail card because you saved a schoolbus once.

>>84817534
Yeah, that only proves that Tony and Tony alone needs to be reigned in by the government because he's too stupid to make the right decisions, not that everyone else on the team is

I'm not really sure, the movie did a complete shit job of explaining what the fucking Accords even contained.

It boiled down to:
Tony: "Accept the Accords 100% or your traitors!"
Cap: "No way, I reject the Accords completely, even though neither of us has even fucking read them!"

>>84817569
There's actually a law that says you can't make new laws that target specific people.

Besides, even if Tony is the bad apple in this generation, what about the next? There will always be more Tonys.
Cap is short sighted and thinks that because he can make the best decisions for everyone, there'll never be a problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ0ZL9s7gQw
>New York
Alien invasion completely stopped by the Avengers, with minimal casualties. Not too mention they saved millions from being nuked by their own government.
>Washington
Cap stops the government from being taken over by a Nazi splinter cell organization, which would have killed millions of American citizens.
>Sokovia
The Avengers stop a threat purely caused by Stark.
>Lagos
Unneeded side casualties by Wanda. The only time (that we see on film) where the Avengers might need to be checked back.
It seems to me that the bigger threats are the American government, and Tony Stark. And funnily enough, they're the ones who agree that everyone else is "too dangerous."
Cap was right.

>>84816492
Hollywood.

>>84817569
what about Wanda fucking up that hospital?

also Tony signed in a hearbeat because of his guilt, he just didnt want to lose the team, he actualmy for the first time in his life had a family and didnt want them to split up, because like Cap said in AoU they can only beat the villains together, but Cap doesnt care so....

The director
The script writer
The cinematographer
The composer
The action choreographers
The actors

>>84817690
Cap is right now, but when he will he make his own "Ultron" level mistake?
No one is perfect forever.

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>>84817300
>The guy needs rehabilitation, not an execution.
I know that and agree with you. But... things are not that easy: guy killed people during the years, governments want him dead. So... it's a typicall situation where you can't have the public support, even been right.

About Tony, I'm pretty surprised to see people supporting the deal with government. It's absurd, goes in the opposite direction of being a hero. And Ross was the perfect example: if he don't like the result, put them away into some submerged cell. Zero trust.

That's the reason both were "wrong": Cap, for being too naive about his friends' situation; and Tony for being blind while dealing with snakes more worried about politics and media damage control, not heroism.

That's the reason Avengers can't be accepted as an official group of heroes. Go Rogue is the only option left. T'Challa was the bond to do that.

>Who was in the wrong here?
Anyone who paid to see this garbage """"movie""""

>>84817792
How is the upcoming Black Panther movie going to handle the BUILD WALL mentality of Wakanda?

>>84817823
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SNAP


ROASTED HARD

>>84817384
No, that was SHIELD. Hydra used Operation Paperclip as an opportunity to infiltrate at the beginning and turn SHIELD into the new face of Hydra so they could operate in secret.

>>84817879
The movie is going to be about Black Panther going "I SEE I WAS WRONG. I CARE NOW." but his country will still stay WALL because you can't have everyone in the MCU flying around in hypernegroid superscience shit

>>84817791
Cap doesn't make Ultron level mistakes

>>84817900
Nah they've definitely got people in the actual government, like that one Senator who was an asshole to Stark. I wouldn't trust the government any more than I could throw them after Winter Soldier.

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>>84816537
>he was above international law

No such thing. Dial "international" 911 and call the "international" cops, bitch.

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>>84817546
>saved a schoolbus

>>84816492

Stark is the one that screwed everything up. He created an army of killer robots. That's why he signed on as the UN’s bitch. Out of self guilt and self pity. The spoiled billionaire didn't want to suffer the consequences for his actions.

>>84817938
Imagine if it doesn't, and Black Panther remains an unapologetic isolationist for the duration of the movie, and the movie's events prove his position right. How butthurt would people be?

>>84816492
>instead of protecting people let's join the US military and help destabilize the middle east, replace murderous dictators who do a little good for their people with murderous dictators who do nothing good for their people, and help the oil industry use the military for their own gain
Stark sided with money and Cap wanted to help people.

>>84817158
>war criminal (he got brainwashed, ok... but he's still a criminal in the eyes of any court

Then Hawkeye is a "war criminal". I didn't see Stark chimp out over Hawkeye. Because Stark only cares about himself and his feelings.

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>>84817979
>Cap doesn't make Ultron level mistakes
That's another bigger point here. Cap got fucked by Witch's explosion, but it was a "minor" tragedy from a battle. Tony's creating Ultron to automate robots while he drinks margaritas with Banner was beyond retarded, prepotent as fuck.

In essence, being a hero is daily self sacrifice: is being in the front lines and getting involved every fucking day - and Tony, with his narcissist mind, never caught it.

>>84817938
>but his country will still stay WALL because you can't have everyone in the MCU flying around in hypernegroid superscience shit
Yes.

>>84816492
marvel

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>>84816492
The black lady and msm
>wah you saved the planet but my son died
>HE WUZ A GOOD BOY

>>84818427
>>84818379
>>84818448
Pls do not bully Tony

This movie was an allegory on this divisiveness over gun control, FYI.

Whether you think Bucky is a criminal or just a tool that did hydra's bidding against his will is akin to whether or not you think gun's kill people or people kills people USING guns.

>>84817724
>what about Wanda fucking up that hospital?

Bullshit. The bio terrorist blew up the hospital. If it wasn't for her shield, the entire hospital would have been destroyed. If it wasn't for Captain America and his team, that bioweapon would have killed millions of people. I'm tired of shitheads blaming the crimes of villains on the heroes.

>>84818448
>In essence, being a hero is daily self sacrifice: is being in the front lines and getting involved every fucking day
But that doesn't make a difference

Whether Cap orders people to go invade a country or Tony does it on the beach, it's still a fuck up if they make a mistake.

Like what if Cap "pacifies" a village he thinks is run by Marvel-ISIS but it really turns out to be independent rebels?
Would having Cap do it person made it better than if if was a bunch of Starkbots?

>>84818663
>all of Cap's sins are what-if scenarios
>all of Tony's sins are real
>BUT THEY'RE EQUALLY UNSTABLE, GUYS
epic

>>84817460
He doesn't have to chill out, he just has to agree not to extra-judicially assassinate him right there on the spot.

>hey Tony, I understand you're angry, but you don't have the right to kill this guy, there a mitigating circumstances, and at the very least he needs to stand trial, we're superheroes, not executioners.
>I'm upset, but seeing as I'm meant to embody the goodness and justice of humanity, I agree.

There, the whole last fight doesn't happen

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>>84818517
>Tony Stark loses faith in his entire mission because of token "HE DINDU NOTHIN" lady
capeshit has gone to the dogs, I miss Raimi

>>84818517
MUMMY

>>84818698
We're not talking about stability.
We're talking oversight in the decision making process

You should still wear a seatbelt even if the driver has never gotten in an accident before.

>>84816641
Tony changed after Avengers, to the point where he's scared. He's scared of some strange powerful alien unknown, he's scared he'll fail, he's scared he'll let more people die. Everything he does is based off of fear now.

Fuck, I'm talking about capeshit plot points.

>>84818660
This. If police corner a terrorist and he blows himself up rather than be shot, killing some people, you don't blame the fucking cops provoking him or some shit.

>>84817791
>Cap is right now, but when he will he

"Punishment comes after the crime."

Rodgers.

>>84818663
>Would having Cap do it person made it better than if if was a bunch of Starkbots?

Cap has morals, Starkbots don't.

>>84818767
So you're saying that he's not fit to be a hero anymore?

>>84818805
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

>>84818832
Yeah but Cap think he's killing bad guys.
He got bad intelligence.

He doesn't have an objective "goodness" meter
He's killing Arabs with AKs regardless. It just turns out these are OUR Arabs with AKs

>>84817413
>If someone saves the world from total destruction twice i would be inclined to trust them a little more than the god damn UN.

/thread

Well, it's clear that Cap is a decent guy who always tries to do the right thing (according to him). Besides this Civil War BS movies, has there been a time when you questioned Cap? Tony on the other had has been a fuck up in all of his movies. I'd have to say that I trust Cap's judgment over Tony's.Cap was right.

>>84818119
The Sakovia Accords were International Law.

>>84818699
>I'm upset, but seeing as I'm meant to embody the goodness and justice of humanity, I agree.

I can't tell if you're being serious right now.

How many people do you think would respond with that kind of presence of mind in the immediate moments after just watching the video of their parents being murdered?

Reminder that Tony was right in the comics because Cap was just part of Hydra trying to fracture the heroes

Both were in the wrong, but Iron Man moreso.

>Hurr Cap was protecting a War Criminal

Cap was protecting a man he knew was ultimately innocent due to brainwashing, as he knew he would get a kangaroo court.

People think Captain America's some law abiding goodie two shoes but thats never been the case. He's always been Chaotic Good or Neutral Good over lawful good. People just assume otherwise because of the character's history, just like they assume he's some jingoistic warmonger when thats not the case.

He should have told Tony about his parents, that was bad, but it was a messy situation to even bring up in the first place.

>>84819022
Someone who has the responsibility of a world leader. That's one of the qualities you look for in a man who's job governs the livelihood and well-being of billions of people.

Stark caused all the problems in Avengers 2, and yet he tried to take the "high ground" like a true hypocrite. Cap's operation in Civil War was a US government operation, so why would it spark controversy about vigilantes?

Iron Man hasn't been sympathetic since the first film; he was basically the villain of Age of Ultron. In his position, I would find the Bucky reaction justified, but everything else is his fault.

>hey cap who avengers the avengers?
>FUCK YOU TONY I DON'T NEED TO REGULATIONS I'M GOING TO GO WHERE EVER THE FUCK I WANT WHENEVER I WANT AND DO WHATEVER I WANT

Jesus christ cap, relax.

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>>84819076
You mean like this world leader did?

>>84818847

Spoken like a true dictator. You are a future rapist, Anon. It's time to remove your rape tool and castrate you.

>>84819022
Just because its understandable doesn't mean you're in the right.

>>84819132
What did he mean by this?

>>84819124
Black Panther didn't know that Bucky was brainwashed, and after he did he stopped trying to kill him and is shown in the end of the movie donating Wakanda's facilities in pursuit of an anti-brainwashing cure. What were you trying to prove here?

>>84819037
Has this been retconned yet?

Captain America spent two movies fighting tyrannical government corruption, of course he doesn't want those "checks and balances" restricting him from helping people.

I have to ask what the point of the UN regulations even are? The UN can't do shit regardless, how are they going to stop a team of superheroes? Captain America decimated a top security underwater prison by himself in order to free his teammmates, and thats without even his shield.

What the fuck would the UN do if Thor decided he didn't give a shit about the UN saying he can't go stop some cosmic threat until the paperwork clears?

They pulled the trigger on civil war too soon.

>>84819269
It's still going on

>>84819132
That's not exactly an ounce, now is it

How are they going to reassemble the team in time for Infinity War? Are they going to dedicate a movie to it, or will the first half of Infinity War be Avengers: Reconciliation? Doing the latter would be a huge mistake but I don't see anything in the Marvel lineup that would allow for the former.

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>>84819009

The UN is a joke. There is no "international" government. I'll say it again. Dial "international" 911 and call the "international" cops, bitch.

That would be an excellent idea for Civil War 2. Evil George Soros has his UN declare itself the world government. The UN orders Stark and his lackey to attack any country that refuses. Captain America sides with the people and creates a resistance movement. Wolverines!

>>84816781
Imagine somone killing yours parents (especially your beloved mother) under hypnose standing next to you decades after saying "chill bro, this wasn't myself lol", what would you do, faggot ?

Before I watched this I was so convinced that Tony is going to be the one fucking things up. Turned out that they reversed expectations and made him sympathetic.

>>84819295
Is Thor even subject to Earth Law or is he given the equivalent to planetary Diplomatic Immunity for so long as he represents Asgard?

>>84819037

This this this

>>84819076
It's like you fucking missed the first minutes of this movie.

>>84819335
That's lame.

>>84819200
Did you even watch the movie? He doesn't quit his quest for vengeance because "Oh, he was brainwashed? Never mind then." He stopped once he realized what kind of man it would make him in watching Zemo's similar quest for vengeance.

The point is that even someone like T'Challa who is, in fact, a world leader and a very capable one is still prone to behaving emotionally. People have limits. It's unrealistic to expect people act entirely on principle and reason in the wake of literally watching a loved one die in front of them.

You're kidding yourself with this whole HURR DURR TONY SHOULD HAVE JUST CALMED THE FUCK DOWN idiocy. That shit is easy to say from the comfort of your mom's basement.

Cap was a fool for going against the world to save his friend. yes Bucky was brainwashed and everything that happened was against his will, but still. Cap is an idiot.

Stark is a fool for thinking being under Govt control was a good idea.

>>84819132

Disintegrate.

>>84819401
>How are they going to reassemble the team in time for Infinity War

They don't have to. Thanos invades Earth. The real Avengers fight him and lose. Stark's team sits at home and watches it on CNN, while unelected UN weasels decide what to do.

>>84818843
Iron man was never an hero, that was always Tony Stark in advanced armor making shit for his gigantic ego.

>>84819463
>>84819534
>HURR DURR TONY SHOULD HAVE JUST CALMED THE FUCK DOWN

No ones saying this. Tony's reaction was perfectly understandable. The thread is about who was in the RIGHT.

If I watched some idiot hit my kid with his car by mistake and I chimped out and murdered him, my reaction would be perfectly understandable but only an idiot would say I'm in the right.

>>84819469
I'm pretty sure since those papers were designed to restrict superhuman interference they apply to Thor. And Hulk, and everyone else.

>>84816492
You, because you watch capeshit

Is the ultimate endgame of the MCU to have Stark resign as Iron Man, citing that he is mentally unfit for the job?

>>84816492
Infinity War has DOUBLE the amount of characters this movie had, which was packed to begin with.

>>84819731
Are they bringing in GotG to the Avengers party?

In the MCU universe Cap is clearly right. The governments are horribly corrupt and Cap and most superheros have much better judgement and morality.

>>84819678
>Tony's reaction was perfectly understandable. The thread is about who was in the RIGHT.

No one's arguing that. What they're arguing is >>84818699 where Tony's reaction is treated like it's not even understandable.

>>84819405
>The UN is a joke. There is no "international" government. I'll say it again. Dial "international" 911 and call the "international" cops, bitch.

The MCU isn't the real world.

>>84819859

The MCU isn't an alien world either. The politics are the same. Countries are countries. Do you dispute that fact?

Cap primary motivation wasn't even to try to save Bucky. It was to stop Zemo.

Going through the proper channels means Zemo gets access and control over a half dozen super soldiers.

Nobody is willing to listen to Cap so he has no other option but to go rogue.

>>84819981
>The MCU isn't an alien world either. The politics are the same. Countries are countries. Do you dispute that fact?

The politics aren't the same though. There is clearly a much stronger global governing body compared to the real world.

>>84817791
"The best hands are still out own"

So what do these accords even allow the Avengers to do?

>>84816492
Cap was mostly in the wrong, but putting the Avengers on a leash held by the UN would be completely retarded. The world would probably end within a week because nothing would get done.

>>84819022
Do you know literally nothing about Tony Stark's character?

Why can't Cap ever do something undefendibly wrong?

Is it because it will piss off the fanboys that wear their Captain America shirts to every marvel movie?

>>84816492
Tony.

I think it boils down entirely to whether or not you're someone that puts more trust into people, or into a person. If you think a person is ultimately untrustworthy and that they need to be accountable to a governing body, you side with Tony. If you think that people as a whole are untrustworthy but that some a select few are exceptions to the rule, you'll be more inclined to side with Cap.

I'm a misanthrope and think that people as a whole are idiots. I'd leave the fate of the world in the hands of Steve Rogers over the government or the majority opinion any day.

>>84820864
>Why can't Cap ever do something undefendibly wrong?

Because its not in his character? He does things that can be argued as wrong like in Civil War but he's not an asshole that does indefensibly wrong things. Neither has Banner or Hawkeye or Spider-Man or a bunch of other characters. You're just getting rectally ragnaroked because you don't like his character

>Hurr why can't every character be muh dark edgy antihero. Batman should have killed more people in BvS

>>84816492
Anyone who thinks that Civil War in any form has any substance.

>>84816492
batman

How did Civil War manage to get so much praise? Fucking shitty overstuffed flick.

After Winter Soldier this was a proper disappointment.

>>84816492
The fact there's a debate about this is telling how good the film was representing both sides of the argument.

Also Cap was right about the accords, but was wrong for hiding the truth about Tony's parents murder from Tony.

>>84821849
He just wanted to protect his friend and he knew that if he told Tony, Tony would kill him on the spot

>>84817158
>he got brainwashed, ok... but he's still a criminal in the eyes of any court around the globe
?????

>>84817266
>Tony recognizes that people make mistakes, especially him
OK...

>>84817266
>Even if the government is often wrong, it's the best thing they got
But a minute ago mistakes were unacceptable.

Remember when Tony built Ultron because he just felt like it

>>84822078
cute AI girls = ok
not-cute AI guys = bad
this is super simple, I don't know how Tony fucked it up

>>84817460
Tony's supposed to be standing up for the legal, unemotional position. But then he's put in a situation where the legal, unemotional thing to do...doesn't matter, cos it's HIS PARENTS,DAMMIT!!! He's not even morally right, as Bucky had literally no control of himself. Tony's understandably hypocritical, but still hypocritical.

>>84816492
How old are you retards? Literally 10? Jesus christ. FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO TALK ABOUT CHILDREN

GROW UP

>>84820864

Waahhh! Why is Captain America so right! It's not fair! Reddit spacing.

>>84819124

You mean Black Panther, who at the end of the movie realises Zemo is his father's real killer, and not only refuses to kill him, but prevents his suicide?

>>84818663
>implying cap would ever rush in and "pacify" some village like a mongoloid terrorist US army general

>>84822110
He's a drunk.

>>84822307
"Said the anon on 4chan"

>>84820198
Clearly? ANY evidence of this?

>>84820914
Majority opinion is decided by a majority of idiots, by your own reasoning.

>>84822110
Watch agents of shield.

Cute AI girls are bad news as well. Nonetheless I'd fuck a screaming rampaging AIDA into oblivion any day of the week

>>84823373
I was told that Agents of Shield was garbage

>>84823434
Some of it is utter garbage.

Still enjoyed a lot of the comics characters. Don't want to say who shows up but is enjoyable, although it starts off slow. I saw the series premiere, laughed at how awful it was, gave it a try 2 years later on Netflix and now I enjoy it

>>84816492
Anyone who paid to see this pile of garbage.

Cap was right. He had seen first hand how Hydra had managed to infiltrate and corrupt two governmental organisations (SHIELD and the Nazis). Why would he trust the Avengers being controlled by a similar committee? Instead he would rather trust this power with individuals he trusts rather than bureaucratic government forces.

>>84818714
That's been his entire arc over every movie he's in. Tony fucks up and has to fix his own mess. Dindu wasn't the sole reason, it was the final straw.

One of the things I really liked about Civil War was how exasperated Tony sounded, especially when talking to Cap.

Marvel Fans. For thinking this shit and any substance.

>>84816492

Cap was more concerned with freedom and the Avengers not becoming government tools that he completely overlooked the concept of the Avengers actually being held accountable for bad shit they do.

Wanda killed shit tons of people of her own volition and never even got a stern talking to.

>>84818843
Heroes must become perfect now?

>>84816603
this

>>84816492
Cap was wrong. Iron Man is always right.

Based capitalist playboy

>>84825778
>Wanda killed shit tons of people of her own volition

Stop lying. Hydra terrorists killed people. Wanda saved hundreds with her shield. No jury in the world would convict her.

>>84825778
>killed some people
>but saved even more
better reprimand her for not being perfect right anon?
fucking faggot

marvel movies are shit but so are you

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>>84822110
wat

>>84817413
>If someone saves the world from total destruction twice i would be inclined to trust them a little more than the god damn UN.

Unironically this. Tony was a cuck, the UN is a shitty organization with no power and just represents an amalgamation of shitty interests. I trust Cap more than some government of a dozen countries I don't live in based on how he has appeared in the films.

Tony was unironically and entirely in the wrong.

>All of the issues with Iron Monger/Whiplash/Extremis/Ultron were Tony's fault.
>Spidey's "if we have the power to help, but don't, and something happens it's on us" is the EXACT QUOTE that proves he should have been on Cap's side.

Lol, notice how there has never been a thread like this with actual discussion over who was right in Man of Murder vs. Bin Affleck

>>84816781
>Do you even remember them?
>I remember all of them.

Damn son.

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The whole idea of the accords is stupid.

Approximately 350 people (including, say, London in Thor 2 and anyone from the car pile up in Monaco in IM2) is a pretty damn good outcome.

>>84827240
>literal alien invasion of New York
>74 civilian casualties
holy fuck they're geniuses

>>84827240
All they had to do was add a zero to the end of each number and it might have made more sense.

>>84827345
what a bunch of useless aliens make it 74000 to be more believeable

>>84827240
Bigger question: how cucked are the civilians of the MCU that they flip their lids at 350 casualties when in every one of those situations the Avengers stopped millions of people from dying? What's wrong with them? Why are you attacking your saviors for not being literally perfect instead of attacking the evildoers for fucking their shit up in the first place?

Iron Man for thinking the UN means shit

>>84817663
Cap doesnt think he should make the decision for everyone, after all he was willing to go along with other plans as along as their was a clear consensus, even if he disagrees. There is abundant evidence of this in Age of Ultron. Nobody needs to be afraid of Captian America making unilateral decisions, they need to be afraid of Iron Man making unilateral decisions. He forced the accords of Captian America, and since they were an outlandishly absurdly stupid idea that forced Captian America to act on his own, not because Cap wanted to cause all this.
>>84817791
this is the worst post in the whole thread

>>84818751
sure always your seatbelt
But wouldnt you rather take a ride from the guy who has literally never crashed, or the guy who does it regularly?

Just because Cap has the capability to make an error just like everyone else, doesnt even remotely make him comparable to the perenially unstable Iron Man.

>>84827371
>>84827371
Or hell, 2 or 3 zeros, there's motherfucking interdimensional aliens and terminators shooting at people

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>>84817413
>Trusts world savior over UN

This is why the UN will never get the support it needs to become the new world government and give us a sprawling galactic empire, complete with mecha and pop idol girls.

>>84816537
>>84816510
wouldnt you want to protect your best friend? It was tony fault for wanting to be cucked but the Govment

I have a lot of leftist friends who supported Captain America.

comfy quality thread

>Euro /tv/ says that Cap was in the wrong
>American /tv/ says that Tony was in the wrong
what did geopolitics mean by this?

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>>84827756
Eat shit NUNS

also

Cap was wrong for lying, but outcome wise he is always right so it doesn't matter much

Tony was stupidly wrong on many counts

>>84828628
this made my day, thanks

>>84816492
The manchildren who paid money to see it

I think the fact that people think one side is so correct you have to be retarded to think the other side is right is a pretty good achievement of the film.

I still see people go "They said the movie was gonna make it seem like both sides have a point, but they failed because obviously X is right" while getting in heated arguments with people who think the other is.

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>>84816554

>>84829186
Yeah, for example, there are people with reasonable opinions and mature worldviews (who support Cap), and total retards (who say otherwise)

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>>84829273
it was

sure it was more entertaining the BvsS, but honestly two "best friends" fight and one ends up leave a cell phone so they can get back together later after their fight. They also are so close that family issues are involved.

I could go on in more detail, but honestly the amount of homo erotic undertones is disturbing.

Stuff like this is largely why I stick with DC .... Shit now I just give up!

>>84816492
Liberal big government pro-overregulation vs Libertarian say the fuck out of my business while I save the fucking world wearing the stars and stripes.

And yet...
>>84816510
>>84816537
>>84816597
>>84816657
>>84816663
>>84817266

Christ, this thread might as well be the Huffington post

>>84817413

This guy gets it.

>>84827756
I believe an organization like that is perfectly possible but the UN is full of people with absolutley no backbone, no courage, no drive, and no desire to take any action ever.
Even if everyone loved them, they would still be pretty much totally useless.

>>84831545
>Liberal big government pro-overregulation
How did this become what Tony Stark was about?

Back in Iron Man 2, he was practically an Ayn Rand character.

>>84832733
>How did this become what Tony Stark was about?

Because nobody takes shit personally like Tony. His entire reason for becoming Iron Man in the first place was because he saw what people were doing with his weapons first hand. Of course he'd be behind promoting accountability and keeping the Avengers in check.

Cap chews him out for putting Wanda on lockdown, but she's more dangerous to turn loose than the goddamn Hulk under pressure.

>>84827240
>less than 500 people died through various combined cataclysmic events that could have ended the world
>more people were probably killed by terrorists this ramadan than through the terrestrial MCU joints
If you didn't think Tony was in the wrong you're retarded

>>84818843
He never was.

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why do superheroes love fighting each other and ignore civilians? am i missing something? is spider man the only legit superhero in these movies?

>>84819616
not involved in this argument at all but thats probably the edgiest reply ive ever read, impressive

>>84816492
The Jews for making this crap.

>>84818427
Hawkeye was brainwashed by a God.

Neither, Wanda was in the right.

>>84816492
Cap was in the right, obviously. We all know the UN is a hydra front.

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>>84836500
Can't argue with that zettai ryouiki.

>>84816781
"-You killed my mom"

>>84836512
>the UN

It was so fucking cringeworthy how they included this as if it has any power or legitimacy at all.

I don't know if it's because the writers are idiots who believe the UN matters or because it's part of the agenda to have kids believe it, but it's fucking embarrassing.

>>84836566
FUZZY
F
U
U
U
U
C
K

>>84816492
The cameraman,the frame is off-centered

>>84835966

You forgot to make a point.

>"But Tony, even though he's a mentally unstable killing machine who can kick everyone's ass including mine and he's murdered hundreds of people, he used to be my best friend!"
>[Iron Man shoots laser]

>>84833522
>accountability and keeping the Avengers in check

The Avengers weren't the problem. Stark is the problem. He is the one that built an army of genocidal robots. He and he alone is the guilty one. Yet it's innocent Captain America that is proclaimed a criminal by the crooked UN.

>she's more dangerous to turn loose than the goddamn Hulk

She saved the lives of hundreds of people in that market. Where the fuck was Stark? Isn't he an Avenger? Stark was off dealing with his daddy issues and giving away money so that people will like him again.

iron man was such a libtard
this movie was very cringe with the clips from like MSNBC and the UN and the king of wakanda and retarded shit like that

capeshit should stay in USA desu

>>84833522
>she's more dangerous to turn loose than the goddamn Hulk under pressure

How? She just has like mind control and telekinesis and shit, if anything she wasn't powerful enough during the bomb scene.

>>84818843

Stark is a hero. He's just a horrible leader. Stark can't even control himself. He's too selfish and arrogant to put the team first. Pepper Pots acted as Stark's conscience because he had none of his own. She left him. He treated Wanda like a criminal, so she bailed. Black Widow was willing to work for the UN, but left after one day. All Stark has left is his crippled sidekick and a robot. Some leader.

>>84816492
They both are.

They are against a new world order that we are trying to create. We had to reach way out there and inlist Thanos to wreck the planet.

t. Hydra

>>84816492
Both were too extreme in their beliefs and could have easily reached an agreement somewhere in the middle where their actions were monitored but they weren't kept on a leash.

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To it's credit, this movie killed HELP ME TONY posting once and for all.

For the record, Tony thought that they could have clear consciences by being more accountable to the same people who literally tried to nuke NYC. Where did he think that nuke came from? Did he never follow up? Would he listen to the council's advice next time if they said "Stand down, Avengers, we're just gonna try nuking the aliens again." No, he wouldn't, he would try and stop the nuke like he did the first time. And at that moment he would literally be on Cap's side.

Tony was being incredibly stupid with regards to the oversight committee thing. As far as getting pissed at Bucky goes, that is fine. Imagine if they didn't have superpowers, it's basically just a couple of dudes having a fist fight because of a very emotionally charged revelation. I doubt Tony would have straight up murdered Bucky over it but I'm sure he'd try to take him in.

>>84839442
>could have easily reached an agreement somewhere in the middle

Wrong. The UN already passed the treaty. Stark didn't have the power to negotiate. He is just a UN lackey now. That's why he went to Siberia secretly.

>>84816492
I totally get flying into a fit of rage over your own murdered parents, even if the guy was mind controlled, but volunteering to let the UN govern a team of demi-gods because you're an irresponsible inventor was absolutely fucking retarded on every level.

>schtik is to save lives
>kill innocents with your own hands in the process

really makes me think. maybe these yahoos should stop pretending to be so righteous

>>84819809
Yes. They will show up in the third Avengers movie. Rumor is, by the end of the fourth, there is supposed by something like 50 or so heroes on screen at the same time

>>84818847
>I might get brain cancer at some point. Better nip it in the bud and remove my brain
Though I feel you wouldn't notice much difference.

>>84827006

That's why Tony picked Peter. He lost his Big Cap bro and decided he'd find another little Cap that would be on his side.

>>84839555
That just sounds awful

>>84839511
good bait

Tony is definitely wrong. Try this:
>Cap wants Avengers to be free, to choose for themselves when and where to act
>Tony decides they should have oversight and give away their right to choose
>Zemo tricks all the retards in power, manipulates everyone. Zemo is just one regular guy, but single handedly brings everyone to their knees except those who are free and pursuing the truth
>At this point, everyone on Tony's side is automatically wrong, the only opposition to the villain and their success is Cap and his side without whom Zemo or anyone like him would be able to do whatever they want because everyone else is retarded
But wait, there's more!
>Tony, 3 steps behind and already having fucked everything up for Cap who is actually trying to succeed at stopping the villain, finds out that he was wrong all along
>Goes to Ross with the new intel and urges him to start pursuing the villain
>Ross shuts him down
>The oversight Tony wanted is not pursuing the villain, and is not interested in doing so or letting him do so
>Tony decides to ignore the oversight and do what he wants to do, even quipping about it later about him having to arrest himself if Ross finds out
So not only was Tony already wrong, but then Tony actually goes through and defies his own side and argument because he decides to take things into his own hands. I mean, you've gotta be retarded not to see your own hypocrisy in such a situation right?

>>84841303
>Goes to Ross with the new intel and urges him to start pursuing the villain
>Ross shuts him down
>The oversight Tony wanted is not pursuing the villain, and is not interested in doing so or letting him do so
>Tony decides to ignore the oversight and do what he wants to do, even quipping about it later about him having to arrest himself if Ross finds out

this is 100% true, and it's even a little subtle that audiences would miss that Tony is essentially admitting his argument was wrong before he even gets to Siberia. they just see the superfight about to happen.

russos and markus/mcfeely are so based

cap was 100% right. government bureaucrats ruin everything

>>84842839
But where does this leave Infinity War? They can't waste the whole movie getting the team back together instead of fighting Thanos

>>84843462
they could spend half the movie reassembling

something does happen in avengers 3 that changes shit until avengers 4

ant-man/wasp & muh carol happen in between, i suspect carol gets juiced up and KREED near the end of avengers 3 and it's explored in her solo and ant-man/wasp have to steal the macguffin for avengers 4

>>84843915
Avengers 4 probably directly follows Infinity War.

I think Ant-Man & the Wasp and Captain Marvel do a similar thing to Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2 (which was before Age of Ultron) in that they take place earlier.

Tony.

Tony knows Bucky is mind controlled but doesn't give a fuck. Much as he didn't give a fuck when he made weapons of war and created Ultron.

Innocent life means nothing to Tony Stark. He needs to be put down. Too bad Steve didn't finish him off.

>>84822648
Yeah, that same guy that tried to gut the winter soldier for a solid 45 minutes.

>>84827756
Oh my sweet summer child, how naive

>>84816492
The marketing team for calling it a war. it was a civil dispute or a tiff

Is this the most emotional MCU movie yet?

https://youtu.be/7vTt6s-c4NM