>kill millions >to save billions Was that really a good plan?

>>84485857
Depends on which character you identify with the most.

Considering what's at stake, probably, I just don't think it's gonna work in the long term. Lasting peace with the likes of Nixon and Kissinger in charge of the States? Gimme a break.

Nah. Dr Manhattan came back to Earth six months later as a giant and shoved the whole planet up his asshole. Didn't matter.

>>84485857
yes
the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

>>84485857
morality is absolute
no good action can come out of a bad action

>tfw can't look at this fucker anymore without instantly thinking of shitty mspaint comics about nintendo 3ds and the great gatsby

>>84485857
no, he didn't save mankind, he mutilated it.
Rorschach was right: never compromise, even in the face of armageddon.
Only way to walk into the shadows without remorse or regret.

>>84485891
why did this make me laugh

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>>84485857

>>84485857
>kill millions of jews
>to save billions of people
>Was that really a good plan?

>>84485931
So it would be moral to let billions die?

>>84486037

Zack Snyder disapproves.jpg

>>84485857
yes if you value human lives

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>>84486037

How the fuck did they get away with such terrible casting? Were they seriously unable to find a chad to play this part as was intended by the comic?

>>84485857
Considering we survived the Cold War IRL without having to psychic nuke one of our cities...no.

>>84486034
>Nite Owl and Ozymandias having a deep philosophical discussion about the morality of utilitarianism

>Suddenly giant butthole in the sky. Everyone dies from blue farts

>>84486061
The only countries that really matter are white european ones, the billions dying would be spear chuckers in the middle of nowhere

>>84485857
Blaming it on Manhattan, yes.

Blaming it on giant squid, no.

>>84486092
It actually baffles me how good the casting of Rorschach, Dr. Manhattan, and Nite Owl was vs. Ozy. No clue what Snyder was going for with that guy.

>>84486090
>implying the DCEU is worth saving

>>84486150
Oh sweet summer child.

>>84486095
We survived it because we didn't have a lunatic like Nixon running the show.

>>84486150
>a nuclear war between the first and second world would somehow only impact the third world

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>>84485857
Wrong pic

>We're still talking about this film

Why did this have such a huge impact on people

>>84486209
>>84486222
I didn't watch this capeshit kiddos

I keep telling people this whole movie boils down to whether or not the ends justify the means. If you say yes, you're on team ozzy. If you say no you're on team Rorschach.
That easy.

>>84486222
American education.

>>84485857
nah you need to kill billions to save millions

>>84486240
it is one of most important films created this millenia along with batman v superman.

>>84485857
Millions of jerk-ass yankee Jew Yorkers. I'd say Based Ozy was in the right

>>84486240
It's the Citizen Kane of capeshit.

>has to try and trick some near-omnipotent being that can see the past, present and future to unite mankind
>didn't just say "hey dude, here's my plan to save Earth, just go be an asshole and start making threats to blow up the planet so humans have to unite to defeat you"

makes me think

>>84485931
Sure thing, Rorschach

>>84485931
>morality is absolute
If morality is absolute, then who will punish nature when it blows up a village of innocent people with a volcano?

>all the "bombs" were in Africa
>world shrugs and keeps fighting

His plan would have killed, conservatively the population of NYC in the 80's. So he would, assuming scorched earth, killing about seven million against seven billion. which is a one to one thousand ratio. That's pretty fucking good. it only becomes something to call bullsh on when you remember that Manhattan can just reassemble atoms and can observe time in a non-linear fashion.

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>>84486090
>A Superman who has barely even been in a fight by the time he has to take on Zod, one of the greatest martial fighters from Krypton with more experience than imaginable
>The only way Supes can stop him is to kill him, there is legitimately no other way as he can't be talked down

So if you were Superman, what would you have done? Go on MCU cuck, explain to me. You'd throw yourself in the way to die so Zod can go on to kill the entirety of humanity? Do you cuckolds forget he was aiming his heat vision at a family for gods sakes? Like what the fuck is wrong with you people.

Superman killing the last of his kind to save a worthless little human family shows right there just how much good there really is in him.

Would you kill the last human in order to save a huddled bunch of cockroaches?

>>84485857
It makes sense when you're a literal comic book villain.

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>>84485977
I miss Quentin

>>84485874
rorscarch coz im a badass and u never no wot to expect from me

>>84485891
kek'd
>>84486234
underrated

>>84485857
The dumb part of his plan was that unlike in the comic, he blew up a bunch of cities outside of America. What should have logically happened is that since Dr Manhattan was an American, everyone would blame America.

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>>84485857

>>84485874

The Comedian?

>>84485857
Why did soviets want to destroy the world? It looks like a plot hole. Don't you think IT'S FUCKING VERY STUPID?

>>84486177
I heard somewhere (without fact checking mind you) that Snyder wanted the Ozy twist to be a suprise for normies. So he cast a non-threatening beta twink as opposed to the alpha chad of the graphic novel. Not sure if I agree with that decision...

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>>84486169
>blame attacks all over the world on an notorious American weapon
>this will unite the world
>blaming an attack on a completely alien threat will not

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>be me, 17y.o
>first legal R-rated IMAX flick
>read the graphic novel early on
>mfw no squid

This movie could've been so much better..

>>84486981
Ozzy installed some kind of radiating device that blocked Dr. Manhattan'S fortune telling abilities-

>>84485857
yes

Am I remembering wrong or in the movie he put those bombs in multiple cities all over the world? It wasn't just new york

>>84487929
The comic it's just New York. The movie it's widespread globally. People are mixing the two up.

>>84485857
>Name is literally Ozymandias
Know your poetry anons

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>>84485857

>>84485857
It was an autistic plan

>>84485977
'No!'

>>84487990
the only moral choice is to do nothing

>>84488044

Depends on your set of morals. :^)

>>84488059
>2017
>subjective morality

>>84487104

or maybe he could have done what he did in superman 2 where he fucking used his WITS to outsmart Lex Luther and Zod by fooling them into going into the pod and losing their powers.

>>84488083

There's twelve thousand kinds of moralities: communist morals, christian morals, the categorical imperative...
Every single one of these morals claims to be onjective and the only valid interpretation of human interaction. Go figure. :^)

>>84485857
He didn't say it was a good plan. He said it was a necessary sacrifice.

>>84488044
THE ONLY WINNING MOVE IS NOT TO PLAY
HOW ABOUT A NICE GAME OF CHESS?

>>84485857
Would pushing 1 man into a train justify saving 5 men. Eh, if he is my race yes. Would killing millions be justified to save billions. If they're my race yes.

>>84488309
I messed this post up. If pushing a spic or a nigger would save 5 men I would do it.

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>>84488084
>the wits meme used in lieu of an alternative ending

He just wanted to clear some space so he could play his Nintendo out in public.

>>84485857
>dude utilitarianism lmao
nope, Rorschach was right

>>84487990
>multi-track drifting

If Dr. Manhattan can multiply at will, why can't he dismantle all nuclear weapons?
The fucking flash could punch them all into the sun in an Attosecond and someone being able to do anything and everything isn't?

Manhattan literally tells him he didnt solve a damn thing. And he can see into the future

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>>84485857

No. The comic couldn't be more clear about this

>>84485857
It wasn't a good plan.

It was the only plan.

>>84488897

>It was the only plan.

You drank the Kool Aid.The Alexander obsessed narcissist Ozymandias is the one who keeps saying it was the only way

>>84486252
That's a very simple interpretation of the story from a very simple person

>>84487196
One of the few decently entertaining trips

>>84486095
Yes, we survived after both parties stopped fucking around with proxy wars.
In the end, millions died anyway but instead of being killed by the same enemy, now we have this constant tension between capitalism and communism that will never cease to exist because of the scars made by those wars.

Ozy was right if they can't unite for the greater good, unite them through a common enemy,

>>84487680
>I didn't watch the movie

New York was fucked real good, Ozy spent the entire movie creating the idea of Manhattan being a loose cannon on the edge of madness. All of this, so it would look like the americans lost control of their weapon which now sees the entire world as an enemy.

>>84489204
>now we have this constant tension between capitalism and communism

No we don't. Communism is dead except in irrelevant shit hole countries

>>84485857
>smartest man in the world
Of course it's a good plan

>>84489376
>Communism is dead except in irrelevant shit hole countries

Have you been living in isolation or just not been educated?

>>84485931
The holocaust

Checkmate...

>>84486058
underrated post

>>84489440

Oh please tell me what gigantic opposing force the communists have right now

>>84489479
Ok so lots of jews died but what lasting benefit was there for the white race?

>>84489204
>>84489440
>now we have this constant tension between capitalism and communism

Unless you're talking socialism, which is a real problem being pushed by 50% of the left wing, communism is fucking dead.

Like, sure, the communist part of china runs the country. But china's entirely capitalist. As is Russia.

Either way, the 'scars' made by those wars have a real fucking minor effect compared to the impact of business and not starving to death.

You're both talking out of your fucking asses, there's a reason the post WWII period is known as the long peace and it's because it's incredibly preferable compared to either WWI or WWII.

>>84489546
>>84489595
Did anyone say that? The assertion was there is constant tension between Capitalism and Communism.

Post modernists are basically running the western universities and indoctrinating political activists. 1 in 5 social scientists identify as Marxist.

>>84487198
Reddit.... hi..

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>it's a thread devolves into nazis and tankies episode

Tfw to smart to not be a radical centrist

>>84486177
They really screwed up by making him creepy af from the get-go. Ozy should have seemed like a great guy, a real retired superhero right up until the tweest. I keep picturing him as Jay Garrick from the flash TV show.

>>84488084
And then he STILL killed them afterwards. how was that better?

>>84485857
yes

>>84486215
Nixon did literally nothing wrong

>>84486544
Dr. Manhattan could see everything but couldn't change the future. The world is deterministic to him, and he couldn't do anything about it, hence the tachyon stream that muddled his visions

>>84487198
*holds up spork*

>>84489580
none
now the jews get to milk the shit out of muh gorillions for political power

>>84489580
dude stop denying the holocaust

>>84487104
I wouldn't have written myself in a corner where I had to make Superman kill someone.

>>84486723

Morality only applies to human actions dum dum

>>84491245
Oh im not denying it, but as it stands hitler failed on what he tried to achieve, and so the original guy i was replying to was wrong.

>>84485879

Nixon pulled us out of Vietnam. Peace lasted the longest it ever had in the century after that.

>>84491515
oh good, I was worried about activating my Holocaust Bot 3000 ™

>>84486234
>kill 6 million
>to save billions from the Bolshevik slaughter-camps

>>84491515
You mean morality is a social construct and therefore objectively irrelevant to the Universe.

>>84491632

You're still performing an action

>>84491656

We are a part of the universe and it is relevant to us

>>84485857
vulgar utilitarianism

>>84491686
>We are a part of the universe and it is relevant to us
We are an irrelevant part of the universe and it becomes irrelevant when personal interests become a factor.
You can't have free will and absolute morality in the same bag, because the former counteracts the later.

>>84485931
>morality is absolute

There is no such thing as morality apart from your own mind, the universe does not care what you do or don't do to others, the only thing that cares is your own imagination, and it is as the name implies, imaginary.

>>84491732

How do you deside what's relevant or not then?

>>84491757
the universe doesn't care about anything, so why should we care about it?

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>>84485857
>kill millions to save billions
Hitler literally and figuratively did nothing wrong

>>84487198

>"YOURE NOT HERE WITH ME! I'M HERE!"

I get chills every time

>>84491757
>the universe does not care what you do or don't do to others
Except the universe operates in such a fashion that it gives way to sufficiently complex creatures that in turn develop a sense of morality. The same way molecules eventually form life, life eventually forms morals.

So the universe is intrinsically moral. Prove me wrong.

>>84491797
We don't. The step to existential nihilism is the realization that absolutely nothing matters and nothing has any value, apart from what we give to it in our imagination.

>>84491781
I can because I am not deciding it from the perspective of an imperfect being such as a Human,
but from the perspective of something that is far above Humanity and doesn't give a shit about its social constructs - nature.
Nature kills randomly without care, ergo morality is irrelevant.
Animals kill whether for survival or out of instinct or even randomly like bears are known to be unpredictable, ergo morality is irrelevant.
Humans were stuffed into an environment of limited resources, ergo mutual destruction for survival is inevitable, ergo laws of nature preside above human morality.

>>84491834
>a sense of morality

Sense of morality is a lie we tell to ourselves to make it easier for ourselves.

>>84491834
>sense of morality
Emphasis on the word sense since that's all morality is, a sense by a fraction of humans.
If morality was intrinsic then Humanity would not have been allowed free will.

>>84486300

it's pretty bad. should always have been a TV series, but the movie was on the cusp of the big budget memeflix generation.

it looks like it will be made into a series - hopefully one episode = one episode - and it should be superior.

>>84487104
I tried to argue this very point for months after Man of Steel came out, in conjunction with the fact the grim tone of the movie matches how lonely you would feel as the last/only person of your race left behind In a world that hates/fears you.

Ultimately people just don't want to see Superman be anything other than the Reeves version, I agree that he should've been a lot more positive and the desaturation of colour was a bad move but MOS wasn't a bad movie.

Zod had to die just like Martha and Thomas Wayne had to die to teach the heroes a lesson about what it means to be human.

>>84491850

But we are part of nature and morality is a tool that helps us survive as a group

Just because morality is rare does not make it irrelevant, the opposite it makes it precious

>>84491947
>But we are part of nature and morality is a tool that helps us survive as a group
Morality is a tool, which means it can both help us and deter us as all tools can either become a barrier to one's advancement or a useful tool for a certain purpose, or even a tool of deceit.
You just argued against yourself by calling it a tool.

>>84491826
They completely missed the point of that line in the movie. It's supposed to be Rorschach's psychiatrist relaying the story, with the line also referring to how Rorschach's therapy sessions are deeply affecting his doctor instead of the other way around.

>>84486095
>mfw in every watchmen thread there's gotta be this retard who says "durr but we didn't blow ourselves up in da real world!!!!

Yeah, no shit sherlock.

You'll also notice we don't live in a world with blue supermen with swinging circumcised dicks who can destroy cities in a blink.

>>84489301
America would still be sanctioned because they created and enabled the guy.

This is no different than terrorists stealing poorly defended nukes and blowing up multiple cities; even if America suffered they're still somewhat to blame.

>>84491984

It's a specific tool with a specific function. Not an all purpouse knife. There is only one way to wield it.

MUH SQUID

The squid was stupid and they were right to change it.

>hey an alien squid appeared out of nowhere and started exploding in new york city obviously we have to unite to fight the aliens that don't exist

Assuming they do work together, what is the Earth going to do? Look for the aliens. Try to find out more about where they come from and what they want and how to stop them. And that eventually leads back to Ozymandias or a dead end, neither of which are good for maintaining the illusion. It's a short term solution at best.

With the movie, Ozymandias attacks more than just America, and he pins the attack on someone who actually exist, and Dr. Manhattan agrees to play along and maintain the charade. And America gets out of being blamed because 1) Dr. Manhattan's reputation was destroyed (thanks to Ozymandias) in America and 2) NYC still got fucked up.

>>84485874
Unironically Dr. Manhattan

>>84492106
The fact that people have successfully used it to deceive others already proves your unwarranted claim of absolute purpose incorrect.

>>84485931
That's fucking retarded

>>84487196
He's in prison for life due to smoking weed.
RIP

>>84492155

Was it morality or deceit from the start then?

Also what fact?

>>84492148
You have either not read the comic or you didn't understand it.

>>84492196
It was morality from the standpoint of those being deceived,
and deceit from the standpoint of the one using.

>Also what fact?
The fact that some tools don't have a singular purpose and morality is one of those tools since mental tools are inherently relative and arbitrary in application whose definitions and perceptions vary with differing perspectives.

>>84492148
The squid was actually a great idea. The fact that it was genetically engineered means no one will ever find a source, so a fear of the unknown keeps humans banded together.
With manhattan leaving, Russia and us will just turn against each other in ten years, or each country will start trying to make another Dr.

>>84485879
>Nixon
>Not LBJ
Haha YOKAY

>>84492246

So facade of morality is morality now?

>>84485857
Literally the logic of the US during WW2.

>>84492289
It is until the facade is broken, IF the facade is broken.
You don't know what you don't know, you only blindly believe in what makes you feel comfortable.
As it is say, people prefer to be lied to, to hearing the truth.

>>84492183
i thought he got the death penalty for using a 3DS outside.

>>84491515
you are making an arbitrary distinction. human actions are still perfectly natural because humans are natural. if morality is absolute, a volcano killing a bunch of people is as immoral as a person killing a bunch of people.

>>84492266
>they never find the source
>they eventually just blame each other and bomb each other
Brilliant.

>>84489651
(You)

>>84491815
What is this image from?

>>84492305

So ignorance and stupidity can change the definition of morality?

Like you are doing right now?

>>84492349
I think the problem is that he doesn't understand what the word "absolute" means.
The fact that different cultures have different and often contradictory moral norms only showcases that morality is not absolute.
Trying to define which morality is correct and which isn't is in itself cultural imperialism and an act of authoritarianism since the claimant implies themselves an authority on the matter, which is in itself immoral.
The only valid authority on morality is a party which is separate from humans and above them. Since nature falls into the most accepted category of a higher authority which made us, it obviously doesn't give a fuck about morality when it created a system of limited resources which ultimately break up morality for the sake of survival, so absolute morality is not even sanctioned by nature.

>>84485857
100%. Even the omniscient God-person could see that. Ozy did NOTHING WRONG

>>84492349

Volcano has no will of its own, how can it be immoral?

>>84492266
>nobody will ever question the explanation that "an alien just appeared from nowhere for no reason and started exploding" despite there being really no proof of where it came from and they can't find where it came from and it really has no motive to do that and they can't even show that there are any more of these squids so as far as an on-going threat it isn't one, and it had no setup, and most sane adults don't actually believe in aliens because they don't fucking exist

I mean, fuck man, Bush clearly should have blamed 9/11 on the alien squid. Nobody would have questioned things then. None of that "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" horseshit if you just alien squid it. No, that's a lie nobody will ever fucking question, alien squid. That's believable. I buy that.

>>84492423
You say ignorance and stupidity can change the definition of morality, yet you pull the most scientific definition of ignorance and stupidity by trying to define morality in an absolute manner and impose yourself as an authority on it even though morality is objectively known to be subjective and relative.

>>84492455
prove humans have free will and are not merely acting on innate biologically decided behaviours

>>84492266

Fear of something you know exists is much more potent than fear of the unknown. There's no reason to test limits because you know the limits already. Consider being lost in the woods versus being lost in the woods that you know are full of ravenous wolves.

>>84488971

Only a guy like him could pull it off tho.
Most people can't make that decision.

Also there is no other way to stop war and unite mankind than to show them a bigger threat than themselves.

But even then, not sure if it would accomplish a long term goal, given the whole prophit driven capitalist system we live is completely fucked up and is designed to bring out the worst in us.

>>84492455
How do you know nature does not have a will of its own? Do you have any proof of this?

>>84492517
>given the whole prophit driven capitalist system we live is completely fucked up and is designed to bring out the worst in us.
What's the alternative?
Don't say socialism or communism because Slavs got rid of that for good reasons, those are as bad as capitalism.

>>84492480
People question 9/11 all the time, and it makes no goddamn difference. There would inevitably be "squid truthers" too, but if reality is anything to go by, it probably won't matter all that much. The real problem is when the squids stop showing up for 50 years, and mankind is back to attacking itself with the newly developed anti-squid technology.

>>84492527
All those natural disasters, all those lives lost due to natural causes, and yet Mother Nature isn't in prison and walks free on the streets. Our criminal justice system is corrupt and broken.

>>84492499

Nature has a will, just not awareness to make chioces

>>84492584
Yeah. I wonder when liberals are going to realize that nature is fascist and needs to be punished for it. It puts more constraints on us than fascism ever did.

>>84492577
People would scrutinize the "alien squid" story. Unlike 9/11, the alien squid story would fall apart because alien squids don't fucking exist even in the context of the story. It makes zero sense that Ozymandias, a supposedly brilliant genius, would concoct such a bogus, unbelievable lie. Even three year olds lie better than that.

>>84492608
Proof of that as well?
Maybe it has awareness but you aren't capable of recognizing it or aren't at a high enough level to communicate or comprehend it.
If you can state things about nature so confidently then you must have ascended to its level or above it, otherwise you are the definition of an ignoramus imposing self-invented facts without proof.

>>84492491

If nothing matters then why exist?

>>84492645
What exactly is unbelievable about it within the context of the story? And for the record, I'm not the same person that's been arguing. My first post is the one you're responding to. I prefer the film's ending, I'm just not sure what comes off as unbelievable with the squid ending.

>>84492667
Morality isn't a reason to exist, otherwise no life would exist, so you can stop making stupid implications.

>>84492662

Proof of the counter argument is needed too so your point is moot

>>84492699

I'm just questioning your reductionist attitude

Everyone who has the time to think knows that scientific methods do not apply to the human experience

>>84492702
The counter-argument is that morality isn't absolute, and since you have no proof on the lack of sentience on nature's side in addition to nature forming systems of limited resources where survival trumps morals, the claim of absolute morality is thus proven to be incorrect.

Ask yourselves this:

You are able to save every man, woman, and child within the United States and its outlying territories. You have the power and means to ensure 300+ million people won't die.

However, you have to pick 100,000 pick to die out of the 300 million or else there's no way you can save the rest. Do you try and hope for the best in some hare-brained scheme in retaining your morality and jeopardize the fate of the entire nation? Or do you do the sure-thing as reprehensible as it sounds so that you're guaranteed that everyone sans the 100,000 unlucky bastards get to live?

>>84485879
>Kissinger
>not a genius of long term peace strategies
Lmao. Nuking a city to unite humanity is pure Kissinger, especially if the US comes out on top.

>>84492760

Morality is absolute within the realm of humanity

>>84492745
Scientific methods do apply to the human experience, that's why psychology is a science of researching individuals while sociology is a science of researching mass mentality.
Both have concluded the following:
1. Morality differs from person to person and has a relative and subjective perspective.
2. Morality differs between cultural systems.
3. Morality has no authority defining it as absolute, as the very act of imposition is immoral from both a historical standpoint and the very definition itself.
4. Morality is a human invention and natural forces don't regulate it or punish/reward for it.
Therefore morality isn't absolute.

>>84492784
Not to mention Kissinger has quite a bit of blood on his hands like East Pakistan's massacres because he didn't want to alienate West Pakistan as an ally.

>>84492695
Aliens don't exist in the setting and never have, and they don't exactly have proof that an alien did it because an alien didn't do it. Imagine if, in real life, someone says their friend was murdered by an alien who just appeared out of nowhere then started blowing up. You'd find it hard to believe, even if other people saw it, even if there was a video of it. You'd probably call bullshit and want to investigate, and when your investigation turned up only dead ends, you'd probably be even more skeptical.

Or, again, imagine if Bush said aliens did 9/11 but offered no proof of actual aliens? He'd be as believed as the crazies who have said aliens did 9/11. It's much more believable to pin it to a real person who people know exists and who has a motivation to do harm.

>morality isn't absolute
>pretty much all culture agree on some guiding lines which are also biologically convenient and help development of society

>>84492813
It's not since humanity has free will and free will is defined as a system of variability where mental development and minds are not born the same nor die the same. Proof of this is cultural differences in moral norms.

>>84492858
>some guiding lines
But not all.
And all cultures choose to ignore guiding lines in specific situations and benefit highly from it thus leading to the development of their own society.
You have to turn a blind eye to history in order to make a counter-claim.

>>84491815

but he failed, he didn't catch them all and lost the war

by the sad state of western society (((they))) came back stronger than ever before

>>84492819

Morality is in domain of ethics

Both psychology and sociology are concerned not with the human experience but the societal structures and illnesses, which are fractions of the whole.

If gods authority is not enough then who gave them authority to define morality?

>>84492870

It's freedom of choice, free will is debatable.

>>84488660
>Why can't he dismantle all nuclear weapon?

There seem to be some limits to his powers; he doesn't disagree with the idea that even he couldn't stop every missile if the Soviet Union launched an all-out attack, which was why they kept escalating their stockpile.

Second, Jon is a massive, gigantic pushover. He does virtually nothing of his own accord and has very few actual interests. One of the biggest reasons he's grown so detached from humanity is that he *already would be* getting that way.

He made clocks because his dad told him to. He switched to physics because his dad told him to. There's no real evidence he particularly liked either.

He fought in Vietnam because Nixon told him to. He didn't stop Eddie from murdering his baby mama because nobody told him to. He built Veidt's energy reactors because Adrian told him to.

He dated Janet because she came on to him. He lost interest over time. He dated Laurie because she was interested in him.

Jon hasn't dismantled all weapon because nobody asked him to try, and he doesn't have an ounce of self-motivation to do much of anything. People in the story treat him as though great conviction came with his power, but it didn't.

Millions would have died anyway as a part of billions.

>>84493029
>free will is debatable
As evolution or god, right, my friend?

>>84493006
Psychology and Sociology are concerned with the human experience as well as societal structures and illnesses, as research must have the widest possible reach in order to be scientific. Don't make your own definitions on Sociology and Psychology.

Also there is no global or universal authority on morality, none whatsoever. The only global and universal view with regards to morality is that it is irrelevant to the movement of nature and the cosmos including the very living beings who invented it.

>>84493029
Free will is freedom of choice.
A will to make any choice is still a free will.
Only a will forced to make a singular choice without thought is not a free one.

>>84485977
>>84487196

Quentin is the greatest trip /v/ ever had, he created a lot of OC and was great with the bants

>>84493029
Definition of free will is debatable, it's all about definition.

>>84493101

I'm not making any definitions, I'm just discrediting both fields for being fallacious and not real sciences

>>84493214
You can't even give me the definition of science without realizing that both fields fall into it, yet you want to discredit fields.
Hilarity.

>>84493247

Barely anyone takes sociologists and psychologists seriously

Your faith in them is the real joke here

>>84493306
Not him but psychology is at least somewhat respected in some fields.

Also I don't think that the 'real' sciences help the belief of absolute morality

>>84493306
My faith in them depends on their skill and knowledge,
and my faith in those individuals who lack the capability to recite to me the definition of their fields is equal to my faith in you who can't recite to me the definition of science.
If a highschool teacher asked you to write down the answer to the question "What is science?" you would stare down at the paper for 20 fucking minutes.

>>84485857
No. The world is full. If billions have died it would have solved that problem.

>>84493387
The world is not full though.
It needs to be more full so people will be more desperate to leave it and invest in space travel.
Trying to reduce populations to keep to the planet is an act of stagnation.

>>84485857

No, considering that Dr. Manhattan all but tells him that the peace Ozzy gained would only be temporary.

"Nothing ends Adrian, nothing ever ends."

>>84493140
>Free will is freedom of choice.
The notion of free will states that your organ of decision making (your mind or your Ego) is in itself free and not determined by the world. Freedom of choice just means that you are able to act upon your desires, no matter how these desires are formed (determined or 'free').

>>84485991
this. The film itself answers OPs question.

>>84493554
>The notion of free will states that your organ of decision making (your mind or your Ego) is in itself free and not determined by the world.
There are people who will forsake survival for various reasons even though they have a high assured chance of it despite the sense of survival and satiating bodily needs being the core mental leash of mother nature.
That in itself showcases that free will does exists as mental chains can be broken.

>>84493387
you are wrong. the world is not full. africa and south asia are the only overpopulated places. china is on its way to fixing itself

this overpopulation meme is you being gaslit into not having children. europe and america are anything but overpopulated. it's the third world that's the problem. more people in the west dying is not going to fix the world's overpopulation problem. i mean, it will, in the sense that nobody would be sending aid to africa so their population will crash, but i'm guessing that's not what you meant

>>84493617
I disagree, but I did not want to start a discussion. I just wanted to point out, that free will and freedom of choice are two very different concepts. No matter what you think of them.

World would have stopped fighting for a few years, someone would talk shit and we'd be back at it again. Countries would build up FEMA camps and more nukes as a safe guard against the ayys but that'd be it. You'd probably also have Soviet and American researchers analyzing the corpse and starting a biological Manhattan Project

>>84485857
>not killing billions to save millions
he was very stupid

>>84493752
They aren't though.
A will is a focus, a constant state of mind. A choice is the conversion of a focus into an act with or without consequences.
A focus is not constrained by natural laws, it can defy them, as humanity has been proving time and time again throughout history.

Not really. He should have killed billions to save millions. Less people to revolt against you if the truth ever gets out. Also less crowds.

>>84491901
>If morality was intrinsic then Humanity would not have been allowed free will.
It is and humanity hasn't. Free will is a retarded fairy tale.

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>>84494036
>morality is intrinsic
Show me this magical writing in the sky which defines moral laws, or get the fuck out of here.
Morals didn't exist till humans invented the concept, and the very fact that humans invented it makes it not intrinsic since humans can't at all agree on morals and keep breaking them or forcing their own onto others.

Was he gay?

Morality is grounded in biology/natural selection. It is a mediating device between humans that functions as a test that rewards humans that interact with each other in a manner that produces a positive outcome for all parties involved. Societies that are the most advanced and successful will have the best systems of morality.
It's more than just a human invention. Chimps have a more primitive version of morality. The most successful chimp isn't actually the strongest and most aggressive, it is the chimp that facilities good social habits with the other chimps.
That's an example of how morality is used to push certain organisms, societies as a whole, up the hierarchy of success.

>>84485931
thats retarded. you deserved to get sploded by Manhattan you dip.

>>84495276
>Societies that are the most advanced and successful will have the best systems of morality.
Give how all societies fall sooner or later,
no best system exists. Successful societies meanwhile became so at the expense of others, so morality didn't produce positive outcome for all parties involved, but only for all parties of a specific category at the expense of rivals and inferiors. Thus morality is neither inherently sociable, nor inherently mediatory.
It is merely an excuse to form alliances in order to destroy other rivals, and then an excuse to collapse the alliance to get the most out of the division of resources and benefits and shuffle the wealth.

>>84485931
>no good action can come out of a bad action
Sure it can.
If you took away the welfare from niggers who never achieved anything and gave it to scientists who keep achieving things that benefit all of society,
you would be making a good act out of a bad one.
A logical act.
The moral conclusion is that it is immoral to waste wealth on niggers.

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>>84485931
>morality

>>84495976
>all societies fall
This is arguable. All societies that have fallen, fell because they dramatically compromised their core ideals/principles and eventually became something completely different that was no longer sustainable.

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>kill thousands
>to create a more policed country and new world order of a profitablenever ending war on terror
Was that really a good plan?

>>84488036
>kill hundreds of thousands
>to scare off the Russians from invading a surrendering Japan

>>84496405
>This is arguable.
It's not arguable. It is a natural cycle.
Monotonousness isn't allowed in existence.
Societies must constantly change, but they may never remain in one form for too long, including the new form they changed into.
Everything has a beginning and an end,
and all humans grow tired of one system and inevitably seek another.
Not a single nation has survived since the ancient era, and not a single nation that exists today will live past a certain point in the future.
The only question is when the end/transformation will come.

The greatest example is homosexuality.
The 21st century isn't by any stretch of imagination the first time that a few countries or societies have accepted homosexuality; it is not the last time; it is also not the first time that countries and societies will change their minds and ban homosexuality again when it happens, and it will not be the last time.

>>84496513
hundreds of thousands

>>84491841
also known as the sad truth

>>84486177
Ozymandias became a meme ala Quentin

Every good director needs to include one decision that's just bad enough to be memorable, just ask Christopher Nolan

>>84485857
God DAMN what awful casting and costume design.

Ozymandias was right but comic book black and white morality dictates he was the bad guy hence why Rorschach still fucks it up in the end, the world is going to go back to warring with each other but brainlets who read the story still considered Rorschach the good guy.

>>84485857
No.
Those who die in a nuclear war are to be blamed for it as they allowed their government to increasingly rise the global tensions.
Killing random people to do what you think is "good" is just murder, there is no way around it.

Rorschach was right, if you sacrifice your morals even in the face of the end of the world you are no better than a mindless animal and dont deserve to be saved, then its just natural selection, your own unfitness for the world you live in that kills you not any injustice or bad luck.

>>84496680
>It's not arguable. It is a natural cycle.
>Monotonousness isn't allowed in existence.
>Societies must constantly change, but they may never remain in one form for too long, including the new form they changed into.
>Everything has a beginning and an end,
>and all humans grow tired of one system and inevitably seek another.
>Not a single nation has survived since the ancient era, and not a single nation that exists today will live past a certain point in the future.
>The only question is when the end/transformation will come.
Read a history book kid and look up why all the larger empires collapsed instead of trying to make your own theories.
Ironically i think you are a sign of a collapsing society, your lack of education compared to previous generations is painful to look at.

The whole point of Dr Manhattens
>Nothing ever ends
Line is that that the plan wouldnt work

>>84485931
t. Cicero

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h24D87SqaLQ

Love this scene

>>84499971
>The flash of the guns in the first two shots contrasted with the flash of the camera in the third
KINO

FUCK THIS THREAD.

>>84488141
Viewing the world as a place with fallible, subjective morality might as well be the fucking same as communist morals, you kike.

It's Jewish bullshit, pulling at the thread until nothing is left.

>>84492549
National Socialism, obviously.

>>84499818
>i'm not gonna provide a single argument
>i'm just gonna tell you to look vaguely at why Empires collapsed, which is an answer you already conveniently gave in that old always gets replaced by the new and the new grows old repeating the cycle
KEK. Society is collapsing because children like yourself believe in absolutes and don't have the courage to give your own answers, instead opting for sending people on a wild goose chase under excuse of arbitrary education.

Since we have agreed that no nation has survived history and that morality is irrelevant to the reasons, you can stop being stupid now.

>>84499818
>empires have only one reason for disolving
>disease
>accidental crusades weakening them
>foreign invaders
>civil war
>economic collapse
>cultural subversion
>invading others but biting more than you could chew
>leader catching malaria
>uh, yeah, that's all one reason and it's morals

You my friend, not only lack basic math skills but also need to re-read basic high school level Logic if you had that subject in your school, assuming you ever even finished high school.

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>>84485857
Lets ask the real question.

The fuck was the point of this story? Shit don't make no sense.

>>84500640
i think he was a metaphor for ozzy, Dr Manhattan or maybe Rorschach..

>>84485857
I guess, but its dubious whether the peace between nations would ever really last. I think the way the could war played out IRL was much better, the whole game being played with Soviets constantly trying to spread Communism and the Americans constantly trying to contain would have to come to an end and it doesn't look like that would have ever happened in the Watchmen universe.

>>84486981
Population of the world in the 80s was between about 4.5 and 5 billion

>>84488141
>communist morals
Communists don't believe in morals. At least the smart ones don't bother with it

>>84501073
The Soviets never truly forced themselves to spread Communism, hell they were diplomatically fucking incompetent which even their broken relations with Yugoslavia and China portray.

The reason for Commie spread was American stupidity. Take South America as an example. Communism would never have happened if the Latino people weren't made so pissed off and enraged by American treatment that they would opt for adopting what pissed off Americans the most in turn - Communism. It wouldn't be the first nor last time that USA undermined the sovereignty of other nations by creating coups, installing dictator puppets, and exploiting the people there to the max.
The biggest fuckup USA ever did was Iran.
>first Democratically elected president in Muslim history
>wanted to nationalize oil
>American companies fabricate an unfounded red scare that Mossadegh may go red, even though Soviet diplomatic inability and all agencies had conclusions that he would most likely ally with the West gathered USA gave him some face and sovereignty
>replace Mossadegh with Shah, a dictator who marginalized and exploited his people
>Iranian people get pissed off like motherfuckers
>opt for fundamentalism to spite USA
>USA tries to fix its fuckup by funding another puppet dictator Saddam in the Iraq-Iran War, by supplying him with weapons including chemical ones (oh boy, sound familiar?)
>Iran gets even more enraged
>Iran invents suicide bombing out of a sect loophole in the Shiite religious texts which creates the first Muslim suicide bombers
>USA fucked up triple bad this time
>Iran is now also an ally of Russia
>quadruple fuckup
>all because USA was retarded with Mossadegh
Yeah, nice going USA.

>>84500223
I exactly argued for the opposite, its a complex field in which i couldnt go into any depth into it in one post if i tried.
And pretending thats "its just natural order" or "its human nature" is just idiotic and pisses on the history field as a whole, its the equivalent of saying "why bother, we will all die anyway".

And no, we didnt agree on shit, Roman Greek empires live on in the knowledge they created and values they established even if they dosnt exists on the map anymore in the exact same shape as before, we build on the bones of our ancestors and almost all modern inventions are a direct result of scientific discoveries made in the past.

>>84500400
The fuck is even your point?

>>84489617
>Post modernists are basically running the western universities and indoctrinating political activists. 1 in 5 social scientists identify as Marxist.
Maybe some English Departments, unless you're talking about Continental philosphy. Most Social Sciences are run by Analytics in in the English speaking world. And I don't see how a measly 20% of social scientists being Marxists is a huge tension. What about the other 4/5?

>>84501578
>"its just natural order" or "its human nature" is just idiotic and pisses on the history field as a whole
It isn't, because it is human nature to be diverse (and thus complex with uncountable variables) and it is natural order to always cycle systems (which is also a short term for complexity).

>Roman Greek empires live on in the knowledge they created and values they established
They don't live on at all. They crashed and burned, and their values are constantly crashing and burning and sometimes also working.
>modern inventions are a direct result of scientific discoveries made in the past
Has nothing to do with morality and value systems. Islam used to hoard science, then it banned science, and now it is again adopting science while some are divided about it.
Same with Christianity. Same with any ideology.
Science and technology are the only constants in history because they don't give a shit about values, especially moral values.
Hell, the greatest advancement in modern bio-chemistry came as a result of Japan bombing China in bio-chemical experiments, and the same scientists and war criminals (Unit 731) being given immunity by Americans because they needed their knowledge, which produced a golden age of medicine and bio-chemical research. So much for morals and the idea that good can't come out of bad acts.

>>84491627
>pulled us out of Vietnam
Yeah after it was clear we lost

>>84485857
Well.. yeah. one is clearly better than the other.

>>84486037
Thats retarded, and Superman's killed plenty.

>>84487334
It's all a joke is a pretty good summary for /tv/ tbf

>>84486037
Imagine dying in a nuclear holocaust because Superman didn't want to kill one guy

>>84492455
It is amoral

>>84501845
>It isn't, because it is human nature to be diverse (and thus complex with uncountable variables) and it is natural order to always cycle systems (which is also a short term for complexity).
Why are you stating this idiotic theory as its a fact? No its not the natural order, if there is one i dont know it as i dont claim to be omniscient.
>They don't live on at all. They crashed and burned, and their values are constantly crashing and burning and sometimes also working.
The hell you mean. Greece and Rome, modern Italy still chugging on and last time i checked and half the stuff i learn in school from mathematics to astronomy had deep roots in those 2 countries and others before them.
>Science and technology are the only constants in history because they don't give a shit about values, especially moral values.
>Hell, the greatest advancement in modern bio-chemistry came as a result of Japan bombing China in bio-chemical experiments, and the same scientists and war criminals (Unit 731) being given immunity by Americans because they needed their knowledge, which produced a golden age of medicine and bio-chemical research. So much for morals and the idea that good can't come out of bad acts.
I really have no clue what this has to do with anything or how ist supposed to be an argument for your bizarre know it all theories.

>>84492549
>Slavs got rid of that for good reasons
Pretty sure most people in the USSR didn't want it to fall apart. Capitalism was the worst stage of most Eastern Euroopean countries' history, and most of it was directed by foreign Western Economists who claimed to know all about the wonders of capitalism. Communism was dismantled from the top by opportunists. Why else do you think those oligarchs came from?

>>84502268
>No its not the natural order
It is, history pretty much proves it. History is by very definition, a field documenting constant change. Biology is as well.
If you think documented history and biology are idiotic theories, then i can only say your brain is subpar.

>Greece and Rome, modern Italy still chugging on
Modern Greeks have nothing to do with Classical Greeks.
Modern Italians are Lombards and various other tribes, including Muslim invasion from the south, nothing to do with the Romans from the Roman Empire.

We are discussing morality, not astronomy and mathematics. Stick to the topic at hand monkey.
Science has nothing to do with morality.

>>84502372
Yeah, i'm sure most people in the former USSR nations are waiting for bread lines and degeneracy again.
They sure love it so much that no single country's commie party has any support.

>>84502427
This is fucking pointless, you argue correlation as causation, one of the basic logical mistakes one can make.
>Modern Greeks have nothing to do with Classical Greeks.
Oh yeah, the no true Scotsman fallacy.
Then let me ask you what made the "classical Greeks" the "classical Greeks"? I bet no immigration or conquest of foreign lands existed back them, right?
Sorry but im done, this discussion is just one step from shitposting.

>>84501868
>Yeah after it was clear we lost

Vietcong got curbstomped in every major engagement. Communism was an inevitability because of China's proximity. The only way to have won Vietnam was to colonize it.

>>84502490
>bread lines
Better than starving in the streets, committing suicide or having to prostitute yourself to survive

>>84500223
>KEK. Society is collapsing because children like yourself believe in absolutes
Meanwhile
>all humans grow tired of one system and inevitably seek another.
So the reason civilizations fall is because people believe in absolutes, but they also fall because people DON'T believe in absolutes or else they'd never change these things in the first place.

>>84502777
Classical Greeks were a mix of Dorian people and native Illyrians and other such mixes including Mycenaean tribes.
All of those died out, with Persians, Semites, Turks, Romans, Barbarians, and others mixing there over time and weeding out the Classical Greeks.
You don't know shit about history yet you are attempting to talk the talk.
What comedy.

You stated that all societies fall is arguable.
You are proven wrong by history books themselves.
You say all societies fall when their values change.
Again, Alexander and even China who always had the same values while falls between kingdoms and to foreign forces were strictly due to political fuckups.
At least learn history before you shit about it.
Now you feign confusion and start diverting the original topic on morality into sciences and astronomy and irrelevant off-topic shit.
The only thing confusing here is your lack of self-awareness where you think you are tricking anyone with your idiocy.

>>84502833
It might be if there actually was any bread in said bread line

>>84502833
>Better than starving in the streets, committing suicide or having to prostitute yourself to survive
Oh lookie, the shit that was most prevalent during Commie rule and came out as an effect of Commie rule as well.

Communism and Socialism killed everything it could.
The Slavs learned that multiculturalism doesn't work, Yugoslavia was an example.
Slavs learned that family is the most important and that feminism and fag worship are degenerate shit, which is why they are impervious to this shit now.
They have learned to suspect any governments trying to rule by self-professed ethics and morals, which is why their governments are unstable now, no thanks to Communism trying to push progressive ideals and fucking everything up.

And now because the economy was fucked by Communism/Socialism and Slavs can't cope with materialism, they are trying to figure out how to bring back their fertility rates which were also ruined by Socialism and Communism.

Socialism and Communism ironically killed more people than WW2, that's over 70 million people, way over.

Fuck your Communism and Socialism. It was burned to the ground and is now know to be a mistake. A cancer.

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>millions will die today but billions will stay alive.
or
>millions will die tomorrow..... along with billions.
hmmmmmm

>>84492841
>Aliens don't exist in the setting and never have

Are there any credible scientists out there who have stated definitively that aliens do not and cannot exist? How do they know this? There is life on Earth, that is an irrefutable fact. If life can exist here under the right conditions, what leads you to believe that it cannot exist elsewhere under similar conditions?

>Imagine if, in real life, someone says their friend was murdered by an alien who just appeared out of nowhere then started blowing up. You'd find it hard to believe, even if other people saw it, even if there was a video of it.

If thousands of people were killed in the middle of New York City by an enormous exploding squid monster and all the world's governments put aside their quibbling to defend against it, I would be hugely surprised, but I would probably accept it as reality. Especially if there was an enormous amount of evidence that it happened.

>>84492841
>imagine if Bush said aliens did 9/11 but offered no proof of actual aliens

But there WAS proof that something the world had never seen attacked New York. There were pictures of it. There were thousands killed by it. And this is also a handful of years after the world had seen a man be vaporized, then put his molecules back together by the sheer force of his own will. He had the ability to change size, make endless copies of himself, see the past and future as if he was living it at once. He could teleport across interplanetary distances in an instant. If I lived in THAT world, I think I would find the idea of a giant exploding squid to be a bit easier to digest than if George Bush has said aliens did 9/11.

>>84491389
>I wouldn't have written myself in a corner where I had to make Superman kill someone.
So your answer is "plot armor"?
Amazing.

good writers put their charters in situation where they have to make hard choices and make their morals and characterization dictate their actions.
Dunno who so many comic autists have problems with necksnapper, the movie problems lied elsewhere.

>>84485857
No. For the 'smartest man alive' it was a fucking stupid plan

Well it worked didn't it?

>>84503086
You're thinking of complex issues in simple terms so you'll never have to increase your understanding.

>>84485857
But he still lost since Rorschach taped everything

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>>84485977
Quentin was the hero we needed t b h

>>84502427
You're a fucking idiot, of course modern italians and greeks are descended from ancient ones

>>84487680
The attack was against America dumb fuck

>>84485857
no because the billions he saved were hypothetical. In the comic in implies there is still good in humanity and there was a chance that people will still do the right thing and avoid war

>>84500167
>Viewing the world as a place with fallible, subjective morality might as well be the fucking same as communist morals, you kike.
>I'll admit that people have different views on morality than me but this does not constitute subjective morality
nigger you retarded?

>>84507352
>In the comic in implies there is still good in humanity and there was a chance that people will still do the right thing and avoid war

An Alan Moore comic get adapted and some complex and interesting stuff are left to rot to make a plain and dull movie? Who would have tought ?!

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>>84502372
>>84502833
You're a moron.

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>>84494136
t. raskolnikov

Could Batman have beaten Ozymandias?

>>84491757
except there is because certain ways of being over time benefit societies, and they in turn thrive. And those ways of being happen to be moral.

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>>84488044

>>84510221
If Batman remembers to prep the bull or whatever that thing that people always say about him is

>>84508995
So? Atleast people got electricity, education and some infrastructure was built. Before USSR 92% of Russia were illiterate serfs. And to travel to other side of Russia would take half a year. You can even compare some country that was part of USSR like Kazakhstan and Afghanistan that never was part of USSR. The difference in culture and IQ is huge.

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>>84485857
>Ozzy: Bentham
>Rorschach: Kant
>Comedian: Nietzsche
>Nite Owl, Silk Spectre, assorted Minutemen and other vigilantes: various degress of pragmatism

Seems all pretty straightforward to me. All the characters have a more or less consistent outlook and their actions seem legitimate from their points of view. This conflict of philosophies is not resolved except if you want to attribute considerable weight to Manhattan's verdict due to his elevated position of power (which I'd find to be unreasonable within the context of the stroy).

>>84492549

Never said I have the better alternative.

Maybe there isn't, at the current state of humanity. I'm pretty sure there would be if the majority had a higher state of consciousness.

I think we are at the verge of a major change. It will be the real test of mankind.
With AI and machinery taking over slowly, and the life span of an average person expanding, we'll have to make some compromises to deal with the growing population.
Because clearly we won't be needing as many blue colars as we do know in 20 or 30 years, so alot of people(billions) will lose their jobs and get to the brink of starvation.

Countries like china and india who dwell on workload through cheap workers will have it the worst.

If we make it through this century, I think by 2100 we'll have less humans on earth than we do now. And the number will decrease. The fewer we are, the better conditions will be for each person. Thus every individual will have a higher level of consciousness.
Then capitalism won't hold anymore.

>>84486037

Whats the context of this?

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>>84492151
me too man.

>>84501868
Why do you Americans have such a defeatist attitude over that war? It was clear you were winning on the battlefield but lost the war back home with protesters that forced your politicians to give up.

>>84511184

It proved that it was possible for the USA to conquer and occupy any country on planet Earth, and that this power meant nothing. Of course they're salty.

>>84492087
America didn't create Dr. Manhattan, they just used him. Once he sees the world as a threat to be extinguished, it becomes the world's problem. Pussy America is still America, you can't just sanction us

>>84485931
t. Kant

>>84485931
Nietzsche would like to have a word with you

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>>84507337
>>84489301
Watch the movie again, dumbfucks.

First post in the thread. I just wanted to call out all the retards who said it was only America that got attacked.

See the fucking screenshot.

>>84486222
>>84486281
>I'm too retarded about trickle theories and education
We still have more resources to scavange from even if we got nuked. Cars, generators, etc. We also have brilliant minds that would still know science, mathematics, common survival skills, etc.

Aqua'nda in the middle of nowhere would still know how to farm, but they wouldn't get their Red Cross deliveries of food or medication (vaccines, penicillin, other antivirals or antibiotics, etc).

Please shut your mouth and think before you type/speak.

>>84511184
Because it was the first time we were in a war we didn't give a shit about winning, where killing ten times as many enemies as they killed of ours felt depressing

>>84485891
Wait... are you serious?

>>84512538
>SQUID ENERGIZING

fucking Snyder you've done it again
truly a genius beyond our time

>>84485857
ive watched this movie already a few times now and i still have no clue what his plan is

>>84512960
I never noticed this, that's pretty cheeky.

>>84512987
Nuke major capitals and make it seem like Dr. Manhattan did it to unite the world against one threat rather than risk a nuclear war between nations.

>>84512960
yet people still bitched about "muh squids"

well he gave a nod to it and the autists never noticed shit like this
i dont defend this movie, it has flaws, but people don't really rewatch it to notice the small things that snyders do (like MoS, and the 'bad but good in some parts' BvS)

>>84485857
Why didn't he just nuke bumfuck nowhere and create the same panic for less deaths?

>>84514490
Because that wouldn't make sense, and could even be written off as an accident. It needed to be clear that it was a deliberate attack.

>>84486061
Its not 'letting' them die. The moral course of action is preventing deaths without causing them

>>84486300
agreed. I also heard Wonder Woman was great. That Snyder sure does make good films

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>>84491911
>one episode = one episode

>>84492151
dunno why but I laughed out loud upon reading that

image of fat neckbeard in front of his computer poped into my mind and I just couldn't help it

>>84504054
Fallen Angels cunt

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>>84485931
>meanwhile, post on a degenerate site
>could be volunteering to save the 20,000 kids who die of starvation each day

Jesus help us.

>>84485857
> good plan?

in the comic, yes. It brings the world together to gather scientific resources for space exploration as a necessary defensive response, plus psychic research would have been taken more seriously (of course in Alan Moore's Watchmen universe, apparently psychic powers are real). Also, presumably, the people of earth and their culture would be more inclusive and xenophobia would be more directed to cosmic horrors instead of each other. There was a lot of racism and nationalism before (the whole knott head phenomenon) and the alien mind presence would have shown the world a 'true' threat to humanity.

in the movie? No. That was some dumb fucking shit. The governments would have tried to keep the peace but it would be nothing but despair and waiting for Jon to destroy the world whenever he whimed to. A really dumb plan by Adrian. I could even see Nixon or the USSR dropping the bombs for the fuck of it.

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>>84500640
It's a sub-story to reflect the paths of Ozzy/rorshach/comedian a bit

They became horrors while trying to prevent horrors in their own way.

Goes along the line of "you stare into the abyss long enough, it stares back at you", "You have to become a monster to defeat a monster" blah blah blah
The point is you lose your humanity.

>>84485857
Given that a nuclear holocaust would have killed billions it was probably the better call

>>84485931
>Morality is absolute
No it's not, but let me guess, muh holy book says so?

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>>84487104
Why are you such a raging spaz? Pick a point and argue for it. Your retarded rhetoric makes it impossible to read your post.

>>84502821
WAaah WAaah us lost in vietnam

>>84485931
tell me we can live this way

>>84507218
>not the citizen bane version
>no avatar
trash.