Why did hand draw animation die? Why do Americans hate is so much?

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look at thim

>>84330861
Do you have any idea how long it takes to hand-draw a 10 second scene? Days, anon. Maybe weeks. Those movies take years to complete and require an art degree.

Nowadays any old cunt can make an animated movie on their pc in hours.

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>>84331321
But it's worth it.

>>84330897
sauce?

Why don't you ask on /co/ you cowardly numale

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>>84331361
Jin-Roh

>>84330897

Rightwingdeathsquads.webm

>>84330861
sauce??

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>>84331410

I would imagine computer animation is cheaper

>>84331410

Memories (1995 ?) - Katsuhiro Otomo

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>>84331437

>>84330897
Why is it whenever I see shit like people getting shot to shit, it always makes me go "ABUBUBUBUBUBUBUBUBUBUBUBUB!!" ?

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>>84331458
But Tangled was 260 million dollars

>>84331347
Not to investors. They just want a product that sells.

Same with music. Why spend hours/days in a studio trying to perfect a sound when you can just boot up an audio studio program and do it in seconds.

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>>84331481
You have a nervous colon.

>>84331361
Can you imagine being this new ?

>>84331347
For your plebe tumblr account to make some ebin gifs?

>>84331491

Whassis now?

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>>84331559
then why are cgi movies so expensive

>>84331437
Top kek

>>84331027
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd_tqUJZGAs

>>84331623
depends how good it is anon. some aren't

>>84330861
because it doesn't sell in the overseas market outside of the small niches. its both a cultural and economic difference

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>>84331584
stop eating the poo
>>84331593
literally perv robot on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaL9mk8dwYQ
>>84331665
the succesful ones tend to be expensive

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>>84330861

So we could replace it with something better.

>>84331624
t. subhuman chink

>>84331793
berserk 2017 was ahead of its time

>>84331623
not him but render farms aint cheap

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2017 marks the second time that TRIGGER saved hand drawn animation though

>>84330897
Too bad 90% of the movie is a anime romance story and this only makes up about 3 scenes in the movie.

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too expensive

>>84331848
nah bait

>>84331848
LWA isn't as good as KLK though

>>84331491
Those disney and pixar movies fund a lot of R&D for the studio itself.

>>84331730
>stop eating the poo
Answer the question. Is it worth it simply for your plebe tumblr account to make some ebin gifs or what

>>84331730
>>84330861
sauce?

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>>84331907
So? They will never be finished with that which means those movies will always be expensive

>>84330897
Where is this from

>>84331914
Jesus fucking christ sauce for OP is in the thread, and hes giving you sauce in that post you fucking dingaling.

>>84331979
Read the thread you fucking retard

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>>84331979
Jin The Wolf

>>84332093
how dare you post a webm without best girl on it
shame on you

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>>84331027
that movie was fucking fantastic, I regret I waited so long to see it

excellent soundtrack aswell, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueIxFXQdBeA

>>84332146
good that you saw it at all

Dragon Ball Super has terrible animation because Toei puts all their money into One Piece and Precure. Children will watch anything visually stimulating. Fanboys will watch anything with Goku in it. So who needs things like good writing and art?

>>84331959
It's building a foundation though. Moana, for instance, was them perfecting how to animate water, brave and rapunzel were about hair.
They build up new assets to reuse in the next iteration.
Rogue one utilized all of that shit to try and make photoreal CGI versions of dead actors, and if they weren't soo fucking close people wouldn't be complaining about the uncanny valley.

>>84332196
One Piece looks like shit. Even Naruto was better animated

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>>84331027
>>84332146
Yeah something about GiTS just works so well, I know the philosophical stuff is pretty hamfisted but the animation is just so cool.
I miss that early/mid-90's aesthetic.

>>84331801
Its just a dog you cunt

>>84332230
>Moana, for instance, was them perfecting how to animate water
They already said that about Finding Nemo 15 years earlier

>>84332252
t. subhuman chink

>>84332248
>the philosophical stuff is pretty hamfisted
I blame a lot of that on a lot of the subtlety being lost in translation.

>>84332300
t. beta cuck

>>84332339
t. subhuman chink

>>84332339
t. subhuman chink

>>84332339
t. subhuman chink

>>84330861
>Memories
Fuck I should really start watching Anime but have no idea what to watch

>>84331959
Whwt movie is that from?

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>>84332192
is the sequel worth watching?

>>84332402
Nardo, the last prophecy

>>84332339
t. subhuman chink

>no one posted Patlabor yet
Plebs

that one weird anime with tiny robots has good animation

>>84332455
the sequel is better

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>>84332196
One of DBS many problems is the lack of half decent story board.

>>84332292
Surely there's no reason to think computing technology and power has changed in those 15 years?
Meanwhile it makes it cheaper than ever for everyone else to animate higher quality shit if thats what they're into.
Think about how much time and effort went into the first pixar short, now some asshole could shit out something higher quality in an afternoon without leaving his mom's basement.
The other option is stop innovating and let other people take the lead.

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>>84332196
>One Piece

not the anime

>>84330861
>Why did hand draw animation die?

it doesn't sell

disney tried to keep making them but 3D animated movies consistently did great and 2D ones consistently underperformed. don't ask me why.

it has nothing to do with cost by the way. 3D animation don't come cheap. "the princess and the frog" (2D) had a budget of $105 million while "tangled" (3D) had a budget of $260 million. same studio, released one year apart.

the commercial success of "your name" in asia proves that hand-drawn animation isn't totally dead. on the other hand, shitty 3D movies like "the boss baby" and "sing" did great too. it's generally a much better bet to churn out some 3D shit with talking animals or babies than work on 2D animation that is hit-or-miss at the box office.

>>84331996
t. triggered snowflake

>>84332404
Innocence?
Its gorgeous but if you're looking for a traditional sequel you might be let down.
But you can always watch the two fantastic stand alone complex seasons, and the stand alone complex movie is good too.
I still don't know how to feel about arise.

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we've evolved

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>>84332710

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>>84332770
heh, try this on for size

>>84331027
how come the invisibitch doesnt make splashes in the water as she manhandles this guy?

>>84332823
tell me this isn't on the actual show please

>>84332710
I find this terrible cgi with lazy shell shading to be the worst. The only time I think its ever worked for me was the tron cartoon. It's just advertising how hard you didn't want to try, harder than you tried trying to not try.

>>84331437
How did the midget get into the bottle?

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>>84332857
it is

>>84332581
>it doesn't sell

When have you heard someone say they won't watch an animated movie because it's hand-drawn? Outside of a niche market, most people just don't care. They want a product that looks good and the studios want to do that as easily as possible.

>>84331027
this looks much better than anything released in the last 17 years
i don't get it, isn't technology suppose to make things better

>>84332857
A-anon I...

>>84332868
To add insult to injury, there are parts that are hand drawn and look fine sprinkled about sparingly

>>84332582
not him, but really, you're retarded, anon.

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>>84332848

>>84332902
>>84332912
how can they even release this?
why do they even sell the right to whatever shitty animation company did this job
i want people to love berserk but fuck this is shit

>>84332930
I meant at the beginning when she's totally invisible.

>>84332196

>puts all the money into One Piece

Where can I find this quality anime you're talking about?

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>>84332977

>>84332915
>Ghost in the Shell 1.5
>how you want your special edition senpai?
The worst part is that version is one that introduced a shitload of people to the franchise.

>>84331101
Thats not good animation

>>84330897

The good old days of true animated kino

>>84330861
Too much effort to make it look good.
Also the fact that nothing has still topped 40-50s era Disney animation is sad

>>84332196
DBS has actually decent animation now, sometimes at least.

>>84332954
People who love Berserk are going to watch it regardless of the quality, so they can just butcher it as much as they want.

It's either this shit or it doesn't get made at all though, take your pick.

>>84332699
the interquel novel 'after the long goodbye' is great too imo, definitely worth reading if you like innocence

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>>84333029

How about this

>>84333019

I fucking hate Toei.

The best selling manga of all time deserves better than this shit.

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None of these can even compete with picture related

>>84333074
berserk also isn't a big enough name anymore (or arguably ever) to really pull people in and justify an extravagant adaption

>>84333141
>posts still images
cool

>>84331380
I saw this movie and it was really really really gay

>>84333242
no wonder you saw it

>>84333274
>implying "gay" is a negative in the year of our lord 2017

>>84332954
>why do they even sell the right to whatever shitty animation company did this job
I don't know how nip copyrights and licensing work but this shit may have been up in the air since the first berserk anime.
Art police aren't a thing, so if it sells and everyone has the paperwork signed, and people buy it, then what?

>>84330861
there's 2-3 boards for anime

>>84330949
That shit blew my mind as a kid. The soundtrack was great too.

>>84333141

Pretty looking, but shit compared to Secret of Kells.

>>84333242
what's it called?

>>84333316
We're taking it back. Homos are cool as fuck, buy gay and fag are words too good to let go.

>>84331356
Awesome

what

>>84331027
they made an anime version of the ScarJo movie?

>>84333354
I'm sorry, but I can't remember.
Something about rain, maybe?

It's about a student who likes to draw shoes a lot who goes to sit in the park when it rains so he can draw more shoes
He meets a woman who also likes to chill about this pavilion thing when it rains

There's some nice summer rain and he draws her feet

Actually I just googled "anime shoes rain romance" before sending the post and figured out it's called The Garden of Words

>>84332710
Muria will probably kill himself after seeing this

>>84330861
Same as everything in every domain: more money (margin) for less work. Fuck quality and shit, all that matters is MONEY MONEY MONEY. Who cares that everything from food to fucking water to entertainment of all kinds is almost unredeemably shit nowadays? MONEY MONEY!

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>>84331982
That is filler

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>>84330861
WHATS WRONG WITH WESTERN ANIMATION?

>>84333105
Why did you post such shitty quality animation?

>>84333440
>muria

>>84331437
What is this from? It looks so familiar it's killing me

>>84333571
looks like jino iro or whatever that man's name is

the "this hole is made for me" horror manga man

>>84333564
fantastic

>>84333471
is what you posted filler too? it looks terrible.

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We QUALITY now?

>>84333743
Not filler. Doesn't look bad for a modern shonen.

>>84333571
Shoujo Tsubaki

>>84332339
t. subhuman chink

>>84333801
What is that from?

>>84330949
He's a big guy

>>84333795
it's still bad though

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https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/06/23/anime-craft-weekly-41-i-cant-believe-its-2017-and-i-have-to-write-that-anime-is-hand-drawn/

>>84333832
I know it's GT, but hell how can you not recognize the fucking fusion dance from DBZ.

>>84333801
>>84333814
Is this fanmade done in flash? something seems off about it, especially the second one

>>84331437
How did she change her shoes so quickly?

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>>84333893
it's from a professional studio

>>84333564
>gomu gomu no rifle

>>84333929
You don't want to be stomping puppies in your sunday shoes do you?

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>>84332385
What kind of things do you enjoy?

If you're just looking for suggestions, I highly recommend Tatami Galaxy.

>Why did hand draw animation die?
Simply put, there's no skill enough for it to be worth it anymore. It's a lost art

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try finding an anime with better animation than ninja slayer

pro tip: you can't

>>84334134
Aqua teen has ruined that explosion graphic for me.
Every now and then some shitty movie or show tries to sneak it in and I notice every fucking time.

>>84334134
Inferno Cop, but that's by the same folks.

>>84332093
Would that work

>>84334267
yes

>>84334267
works with red lasers like that because of their high speed

>>84332252
I bet you'd eat your own mother if they skinned and boiled her alive

>>84332852
Kek

>>84333931
>filler saga

>>84333092
Garden of Sinners is fucking awful.
People jerk it off to no end for having worthwhile animation, not realizing that animation compromises about 5 minutes of each OVA, at best.

It's trash, written by a literal highschooler.

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>>84332710
>>84332823
>>84332902
what the fuck is this

>>84332975
what the FUCK is this

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>>84334267
Do you think totally spies is anything but accurate in the science department?

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It's difficult and takes a longer than CGI puppeteering
Baka gaijin don't have the patience for it anymore

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>>84333571
a lot of horror & guro artists have similar aesthetics. that's an adaption of a maruo suehiro work but shintaro kago and takato yamamoto's art is reminiscent of it

>>84331848
>over-stylized is good hand drawn animation

yeah nah

>>84335151
>a maruo suehiro work but shintaro kago and takato yamamoto's

and a happy ching chong to you

>>84330861
>Why did hand draw animation die?
Shekels. It's cheaper and faster to do models and shit.

>>84333524
>T-Rex eating the fucking salad
every time

ITT: people who know fuck all about animation

>>84335294
We can all thank post-modernism for that. Going balls-to-the-wall with subjectivity sure did wonders for our culture. When everything is art nothing is.

>>84333074
i watched 2 episodes of this shit before i noped out
the golden age movies may have shitty cgi but they're masterworks compared to the new anime

>>84331437
EDGY

>>84331560
>Can I play the piano anymore?

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Good animation is far too difficult and never worth it in terms on money. And money is all that matters anon.

>>84334334
>Justifying manpower spent making terribly animated filler, when their main episodes are still lacking.

>>84333066
everyday-im-shuffling.webm

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>>84335644
Angel's Egg is such a beautiful movie.

>>84335294
>this shit again

Fine Arts majors are not animators.

Fine Arts has been a shit major since before animation was an industry. People were bitching about shitty trendster art in the fucking 1800s

>>84333849
Pointless talking to these rubes.

>>84335786
>>84335644
Boring ass movie

>>84335774
It's more like
>1000 ping

Because there are easier ways now to animate and people in charge of money will always choose the cheapest easiest way to maximize profits

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>>84335854

>>84335854
Then I recommend to you sir, the newest film in the Transformers franchise and Baywatch.

>>84335916
Except the vast majority of anime is still hand drawn. Like 99% of all new anime series are hand drawn. Even in the west, most cartoons still in syndication are hand drawn, though a larger percentage of them are 3DCG now.

>>84331793
Fucking Miura that greedy cunt selling out the franchise to the lowest fucking bidder and only releasing a chapter when his trashy anime airs.

THE FUCKING SLEEVES OF HIS HAND DON'T EVEN DROOP DOWN IN THE HEAVY RAIN WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS TRASHY LAZYNESS

>>84331356
How is it some episode were animated poorly?
Even the drawing looks different

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>>84335982
>talking shit about /littycore/
Can you actually not? Not in the mood to deal with 'critics'.

>>84336066
>only drawing face and hands

talk about laziness, someone should have whipped those hacks into shape and taught them how to work

>>84336015
Because you have an animation budget that you dont want to blow it on 20 episodes of filler. So you save money by reusing cells and doing quick shitty work.
The original dragon ball would sneak some incredible shit in there, the first time goku and tien fight comes to mind.

>>84333557
>aveeeeeeee muuuuuuuurrrrriiiiiaaaaaaaa

>>84336015
Because TV productions operate on a strict time limit and they have only so many people? And those people are people and not robots so they have different levels of skill and different artistic styles? It's like you people forget animation is an art form, so much of it depends on the effort and skill of the people doing it.

For TV productions episodes are given to different directors and have different key animators and story-boarders assigned to them, so episodes will look and feel different depending on which staff are assigned. And what ultimately makes some episodes look very nice is not only which staff is there (i.e if you assigned your most talented and experienced animator) but also how long you give them to work on it and how much manpower you assign to support the key animator.

The more resources you dump into one episode to make it look better the less you have to spend on other episodes, because the time and money you have for a series is finite (budget + broadcast date). It's not like a movie, you can't just go over budget and push back the deadline a bit so you can get it just right. They have to purchase airtime and if its not ready by then they miss their air date and delay the entire broadcast by 1 week, which in the business is unacceptable barring an emergency situation. So to meet deadlines they will crank out some episodes quickly, reuse assets and lower the number of key frames. Padding episodes with lots of flashbacks and long still panning scenes is typically how studios like Toei do this. They can turn out a high number of undemanding episodes like that and then that gives them more time and man power to budget on the important episodes with lots of high quality action.

>>84333119
fuck I choked on my drink

>>84336351
god, that gave me such a huge boner when I saw it for the first time.

Surprised no one's posted the true eastern kino yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO-aVyKMCsY

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>>84330861
Takes too long and too expensive but westerners love their live action/CGI shit better anyway.

>>84333524
god i loved gi joe and transformers as a kid, so many mistakes like this in both shows. so comfy

>>84333564
wow thats amazing

>>84336066
rip

>>84336324
Sauce?

>>84336743
Hashire Melos

>>84335982
gon' get litty

>>84333564
Popeye was the fucking shit, watched so much of it as a kid

>>84336823
Thank you.

>>84330897
fuseeeeee!!!

>>84334777
the west has the talent, but not the discipline and respect to ever match 90s japanese animation. the japanese have also peaked. sad.

>>84330861
It's funny that people keep asking this when the world's biggest animation industry is almost entirely driven by hand-drawn animation.

>>84335994
Yea, 99% of new anime is hand drawn, and it all is HORRIBLY ANIMATED with 20 minutes of people just standing still and no animation taking place while characters spout generic cringe dialogue, followed by one quick gesture that isn't fully animated, cue funny face, angry face, people walking slowly, more people standing still

way to prove me wrong

>>84337113
>muh 90s
Nearly every talented animator working in the 90s entered the industry in the 80s. The 90s are not somehow more amazing than the 80s in that respect and I would argue the 2000s are only worse because of the transition to digital coloring in the early 00s that resulted in many subpar looking shows due to the technology still being too new to have much finesse. In terms of technical skill the industry has not deteriorated at all. Most of those legendary animators from the 80s and 90s are still alive and still working in the industry.

>>84337235
>and it all is HORRIBLY ANIMATED with 20 minutes of people just standing still and no animation taking place
Yeah the 80s and 90s sure was terrible. Oh wait you're talking about now?

>>84332196
Precure is also for children, so kind of defeating your own point there.

>>84337113
Where is the talent? It doesn't just come from the ether, it has to be built up and maintained.

>>84337235
This is a myth.

>>84337275
Enjoy your denial, fuckface

>>84337235
>20 minutes of people just standing still and no animation taking place while characters spout generic cringe dialogue
You realize this applies to pretty much any cheaply made for-TV cartoon from the last 40 or so years right? The only difference is now there are dozens of times more anime being made than in the 70s and 80s. Your typical anime seasonal chart from the 80s had maybe 8 titles on it, the entire year would have fewer anime premiers than a single season from the last 10 years. Tons of OVAs, but very few TV productions. Because cel animation is hard and extremely time consuming, so making that shit for TV was impractical without serious funding and even then they had to cut all kinds of corners to make it work.

In fact I would say TV anime in general didn't get good until the 80s, which had this HUGE influx of talent into the industry. There were good examples of animation from the 60s and 70s, don't get me wrong, but the vast majority of TV anime before the 80s was cheap mass produced garbage exactly like what you described.

Actually, comparing the average TV anime today against the average TV anime from 30+ years ago, the production values are much, much higher.

>>84337248
sure, but shift in culture and financial goals as well as the changing audience and the broadening market all affect the substance and quality of the final product. i'm not very well versed in japanese animation but 90s are easily my favorite period, and i believe it's because it had the perfect combination of talent, investment, audience and subject. things don't necessarily get better when it becomes easier or cheaper. i also think having industries that serve somewhat niche audiences will always produce superior products to a mass serving one. the current international anime-identity culture can't be helping either.

>>84332248
Kawamori did the mechanical design. Every time you see a door, cyborg parts, tools on a table you name it, you had that guy involved there. And he wasn't the only talented dude working there.
Backdrops, character design, key animation, just check and check what all those guys worked before or after.
It's like an all-star team.

>>84337370
You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, I doubt you've even watched more than 10 anime made in the last 20 years. What you're talking about only really applies to long running daytime shows that have to crank out 1 episode a week every week until the heat death of the universe. Your typical 1/2 cour anime that makes up the bulk of seasonal premiers is nothing like that.

>>84337375
Who gives a fuck what it applies to? I don't actively look for anime cause they all feel the same but my brother watches a lot and I always see the same shit. Reccomend me ANY anime and it'll be the same shit, a well animated 1 minute of action, 20 minutes of inaction and people standing still cause its easier to animate. Go ahead, prove me wrong with actual examples. I don't give a fuck about seasons, I care about good animation that isn't boring

>>84337417
No I don't actively search for anime cause it's all boring shit. There are exceptions like Champloo and bebop but doesn't mean the vast majority isn't boring trash. If you wanna reccomend me good shit fine but don't expect me to actively search for shit when everything I see is the same boring trash.

>>84337345
i guess it depends on how you define talent, by talent i meant the technical capabilities to draw beautiful looking animation, but if you include the ability to be as disciplines and i guess nitpicky in a broader sense of the word talent it gets murkier. western art schools are unfortunately not as much about technique as they are about half-understood philosophy and circlejerkery. i witnessed many of my friends waste their considerable talents becoming generic modern/post-modern artists, or being disillusioned with the industry altogether.

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>>84332962
Well, the "camera" doesn't really show the water. so it seems to me that the guy traced her position based on shadows.
If you have the movie, i suggest you to rewatch the scene, it's actually very interesting because you can hear her footsteps when the guy reaches the water.

>>84337378
I find people tend to conflate OVAs with TV productions, they are not the same. When people talk about how great the 80s and 90s are, they invariably bring up OVA titles and not TV productions. OVAs have a different model for how they get made and how they are funded, TV productions are ALWAYS crunched for time and money and have always had to cut corners, going back to Tezuka himself.

>>84335120
every single time I see this image I just want to fuck that intern up. I honestly would make him eat his own shit after I kick his head.

>>84337375
In the 80s the people who had grown up watching anime joined the industry, and thanks to the then-recent invention of home video it was easier for people to learn on their own and there were more opportunities for them to develop anime.

>>84337496
It's funny how people keep saying all anime feels the same when it's a more diverse medium than live action television, which people rarely if ever accuse of being all the same.

If you always see the same shit when your brother is watching something then that just might mean your brother is always watching the same shit.

>Reccomend me ANY anime and it'll be the same shit, a well animated 1 minute of action, 20 minutes of inaction and people standing still cause its easier to animate.
Myth

>>84337542
again, don't really actively watch anime, so i'm making all my observations based on a fairly small pool with movies ovas and tv shows. is there a place where i can browse top tier anime movies from the last decade or so?

>>84331321
Oshii doesn't do cell animation anymore because it's so labour intensive and he can't get the right people to do it

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>>84331959
Some people love to hate the "slippery" animation style of certain Naruto fights, but I personally love it.

>>84336006
>THE FUCKING SLEEVES OF HIS HAND DON'T EVEN DROOP DOWN IN THE HEAVY RAIN

Really.

They literally don't even have him move an inch when he's talking, not even tilting his head, and you thought they'd put cloth physics in? They literally could have used a basic rig that moves his whole body as he talks and they skimped out, but yeah, I'm sure they'd render the important part, like his shirt.

>>84337345
Talent does come out of the aether, or genetics.

As all of my family were artists, and I took upon the trade.

My brothers aren't artists though, but had natural affinity with drawing and creativity. If they had trained they would have become as good as I have.

But the thing with truly talented people, all you need to do is process the information and copy it and you would be able to retain that information and build it into your own style.

Talent doesn't diminish either, you pretty much pick up where you left off and don't get any worse.

I have been out of practice for about 12 years often not drawing/painting for years and I still am just as good as I was back then. I could even get better as well, but there comes other issues that talent itself just straight up can't overcome.

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>>84337496
>No I don't actively search for anime cause it's all boring shit. There are exceptions like Champloo and bebop
A title from 13 years ago and a title from 19 years ago are your examples. And you just freely admit you don't actually watch anything but are acting like some kind of expert. You know absolutely nothing about this topic, you should be quiet and listen to people who do know what they are talking about.

Pic related is all of the anime released in 1983, this is pretty typical for anime at the time. How many of those have you seen? How many have you even heard of? I've seen hundreds of anime and I can only claim to have seen 1 of these. I doubt you could even find releases for all of these, let alone subs or dubs. Your exposure to anime and what you think of as the evolution of anime is an incredibly narrow slice of the industry. The reality is: it's always been a tiny number of shows from any given year that people remember. The 80s and 90s are not somehow exceptions to this, and the industry has not "gotten worse" just because you refuse to watch anything more recent than a show from 2004.

>>84337653
nobody uses cels anymore, why would they

>>84331559
I get where you're coming from but you have a skewed view of music production if you think this is true. Electronic sound design is a skill in itself.

>>84337751
*1982 meant to say

>>84337751
You got any more pics like that but with some more general recommendations? It feels like I've seen most of the "mainstream" critically acclaimed anime (Akira, GitS, Ghibli, Berserk, SotS, Angel's Egg etc etc etc) but every time I try to dig deeper it's just awful. I'm truly at a loss.

>>84337649
Top tier according to who? It's entertainment, it's all about what you find interesting and fun. Go to sakugabooru if you want anime with impressive technical animation since that's all they wank over there, but impressive technical animation =/= fun or interesting shows. The most popular anime bar none in the west is DBZ and it has terrible production values with absolute shit animation in most of its episodes. Great story-boarding (usually) where they follow Toriyama's paneling the manga, since the man was a god of choreography and panel flow, but the actual animation chops was garbage most of the time.

If you can't be assed to just watch what you think looks good find a reviewer you trust and watch what he tells you to.

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>>84337751
man dezaki was the GOAT

>>84333597
Junji Ito

>>84337345
Talent is just the natural ability to take in information and apply it at a much more rapid rate.

Like, for example there are some people that take a lifetime to master an art, when a talented person could master it in just a few years.

There are tons of examples of this not just relating to art but in all subjects.

Life isn't fair and most of the outcome of your life is predetermined by birth.

>>84337852
i was indeed looking for a pool of technically impressive anime to choose from, i'll check sakugabooru out, thanks.

>>84337721
>>84337907
I mean people can't just pick up pens or tablets and start shitting out top-tier animation, like there's some mana pool of talent they're drawing from and all they need is discipline. Hand-drawn animation was phased out in America many years ago, and television animation started being heavily outsourced in the 80s with very little being done domestically anymore. And even then the animation is mostly low quality. Their animation education (in universities and whatnot), by all appearances, is weak. Even at its prime, American animation never reached the same level as anime. So where is all this "talent" supposed to materialize from?

Europe is a slightly different story.

>>84337993
that's impossible

>>84333380
this guy gets it

>>84337999
>Even at its prime, American animation never reached the same level as anime.
Classic Disney movies and Looney Tunes shorts have animation that shits all over anime.

>>84332770

fucking kek

>>84337751
a good year for /m/

>>84338027
How can it be impossible if I'm looking right at it?

>>84338047
They have more animation, not better animation. And it's also not just animation that goes into making an animated movie or show.

>>84336351
Still looks incredible

>>84337999
Yeah mainly because of money. Even if you are a good animator chances are your work is going to be stolen or you are going to be undersold for the work.

Like, as an animator I was making roughly $10 an hour when you rounded it up, so there was no way I could keep it up. I loved the work but to be paid so little for so much work was disheartening, and it isn't the kind of hobby where you can just do on the side either as it is so time consuming.

That is were you get these animating styles that cut corners because the shorter time you animate the more money you get. As the end product isn't as highly expected as you imagined, also diminishing your artistic integrity in the progress.

Japan the art is respected and it pays well, thing is I am not japanese and the people are highly xenophobic against anyone not japanese in the professional world.

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>>84338070

>>84338047
I kek'd healthily

>>84338163
>Japan the art is respected and it pays well
Fuck no, Japanese animators get paid utterly abysmal wages and have stupidly long working hours.

>>84337828
Go to /wsr/ and ask for anime recs, they post lots of charts there. You should probably have realized, but stuff that floats up to the mainstream does so because it's high quality and has broad appeal. Anime that's not in that elite grouping is either cheaply produced advertisements for toys aimed at kids or its extremely niche entertainment/advertisements aimed at teenagers and adults. This is actually one of the things I love about anime: it's able to cater to such a wide variety of niche interests due to the sheer plurality and diversity of artists in the industry. You have new anime studios being founded every single year, new manga getting serialized and then adapted into anime every year.

If you want to dig past the cream of the crop you're gonna have to get through a lot of mediocre tripe and encounter stuff that is not trying to appeal to the mainstream. You have to realize this right now: the majority of anime is not made for you, so if you're expecting to unearth an hitherto undiscovered trove of amazing titles you can give up. Your choices are to either not watch anime or acquire a taste for otaku culture if you really want to get into anime.

>>84331356
anyone got that .webm of Super's QUALITY """"""""animation""""""""?

>>84338163
It's famously known that animators are paid very little in Japan, and the attrition rate is high because a lot of people can't deal with the long hours and low pay (although with experience they become able to earn more). It's a problem for the industry.

There are foreigners working as animators in Japan and just recently Sunrise announced they're starting an animation training program that's also open to foreigners. Of course they have to speak Japanese well enough.

>>84338278
You can blame china and korea for this.

As they will accept any pay as good as there mechanical skill is unmatched.

>>84338083
Come on, anime has nothing on the expressive character animation of Golden Age Disney for instance.

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>>84332902
>>84332823
>>84332710

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>>84338312
The problem is that every now and then I find something that's exactly suited to my tastes, yet not exactly mainstream. Angel's Egg is one exemple, Mushishi (while pretty popular) is another. Otaku culture is totally incomprehensible to me and I don't think that's where I want to look, however, I do like stupid fighting animes like pic related, the problem here is that those require some real production values to be any good.

>>84335120
jesus fucking christ

>>84333564
I still don't know why they keep fighting

>>84332506
I agree

Half of what made DBZ fights interesting is they were basically bring the great fight panels from the manga to life

DBS is just not put together properly, you just always have this panning far away views as they punch at each other. You don't have the zoomed in gut punches and unique ways of throwing energy anymore. Each character in dbz often did the same moves but with their own flare and personality, in DBS they just come up with gimmicks and weird powers that force the animators to make them fight differently.

>>84338422
>>84332902
>>84332902

Where can I watch this shit. This is amazing.

>>84338443
check out oshii's live action stuff if you haven't already

>>84338343
>>84338278

>japanese animators get paid shit

They are fucking millionares man, on average they make ONE FUCKING MILLION a year where they are at. Fucking assclowns in this thread not knowing that the AVERAGE japanese animator gets paid stupidly high.

>>84337751
I'm acting like someone who lives in the 21st century where anime has exploded in popularity and is everywhere. And it's still all so fucking cliche.
Its so funny how you think your status as an anime nerd gives you some authority or respectability? Do you know what type of people fit into the category of anime nerd?
Heard of Doraemon, Dr. Slump and Gundam obviously.
What is that supposed to prove? That there's a lot of anime over the course of decades like I don't know that? Let me ask you a question? How many of those anime do you think have really good animation?

Just because I don't actively search for anime doesn't mean I haven't seen recent shit. That's such a stupid assumption. I've seen new anime, they look even worse than the old shit. The old shit had style and character, all modern anime has the exact same look to it, super sterilized, with again, terrible animation and cringe plot lines, jokes, developments, etc.

There's already a ton of shit I wanna watch that I do know of, am I expected to suddenly immerse myself in the world of anime and watch every fucking show under the son so I can flex my anime skills on fucking 4chan?

I know there are good shows with beautiful examples of animation but they're so far and few in between that I'm not gonna bother going through the slog when I'd be happy just watching the exceptional greats like what's being posted in this thread.
Maybe if you reccomended me good recent shows with excellent animation you could change my mind but instead you posted a pic of a bunch of obscure shows from the 80s as if that proves that anime nowadays isn't all horribly boring and cookie cutter. Way to go.

I love the style of anime. The potential. The way it captures real life in such a different, comfy way. The level of potential detail. I don't like static characters and stiff movements which I unfortunately see a ton of, and you trying to tell me I'm wrong when all. I'm describing is what I see is not helping.

>>84338577
Yeah I have no idea how people with such high mechanical skill get fucked with getting paid roughly $5 an hour doing this amazing animation

Meanwhile 3d animators, conceptual artists, and visual effects artists at RIOT games make on average of 100k a year.

>>84338443
If you like well-animated action try Yozakura Quartet, One Punch Man, and Mob Psycho. They're all relatively recent shows that showcase the works of young talented animators.

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>>84338647
jesus fucking christ

>>84338686

>software engineer

>>84334416
maybe I'm a retard but why wouldn't this work?

>>84335729
They had already made the movie. Those episodes were there just to fill the gap.

>>84338635
>Just because I don't actively search for anime doesn't mean I haven't seen recent shit
You freely admitted you don't watch anime and your only examples of "recent" anime were more than a decade old, in one case almost 2 decades old.

>I've seen new anime, they look even worse than the old shit
And it's statements like this that prove you don't actually watch anime or know what you're talking about.

>The old shit had style and character, all modern anime has the exact same look to it
And here you just compound the issue and show you probably have a working pool of shows that's maybe 10 titles, all from the same studio probably.

It's just not even worth talking to people like you because you are both ignorant and totally unwilling to admit you are ignorant and insist you know everything despite knowing barely anything at all and actively perpetuating blatant falsehoods and myths as fact.

>>84338647
>average of 100k a year
Man, that's what only a handful of the very top animators in Japan make and those guys are the industry legends.

The thing about 3D artists is that their skills have more demand across multiple industries so naturally they can command a higher salary. 2D animation is such a niche.

>>84331178
whats this from?

>>84338577
That's called consistency and they would have done the same thing if they could back in the cel days. Cels contained errors and imperfections, those were not an intended effect they were a side effect of the limitations of their medium. Digitizing the process has helped removed such imperfections and errors. People who grew up with them though still usually prefer cel errors for the same reason people prefer hand drawn animation to 3DCG art, which is just the same thing taken to an even greater extreme.

>>84338663
I've been recommended One Punch man before but I just can't. I'm aware I'm not 'getting it' or whatever, but I really like my overly serious, larger than life battles with all their twists and turns, and I can't get into the mood when the whole gimmick is that one guy will always win with one punch. Mob Psycho seems pretty cool though.

>>84338385
Anime is weaker in that kind of animation, but there are many other kinds of animation and many other things that go into animation.

>>84338579
I don't know where you're getting this from, but it's completely false. Animators are poorly paid. Very few people in the industry can expect to become rich. The average television anime episode budget some years ago was determined to be $150,000.

>>84338635
>I've seen new anime, they look even worse than the old shit.
Because you're comparing them against high-end movies and OVAs.

>The old shit had style and character, all modern anime has the exact same look to it, super sterilized, with again, terrible animation and cringe plot lines, jokes, developments, etc.
Myth.

>>84338811

They make on fucking average a fucking MILLION yen a year man.

>>84338647
>I have no idea how people with such high mechanical skill get fucked with getting paid roughly $5 an hour doing this amazing animation
They don't. That's what you get paid at the bottom level, as an inbetweener or other entry-level animator job. Key animators make considerably more. They don't make a lot of money by any means and are severely underpaid for their level of skill and expertise, but they're at least paid a decent, livable wage. They have to be, because skills like theirs are so high in demand. One of the main reasons in-betweeners and other entry level animators are paid basically nothing is because they are easily replaceable. Despite the shit working conditions there's a line out the door at any anime studio for people who want to draw anime.

>>84338785
Did you watch Birdy Decode?It's more of a serious sci-fi show. It's also quite well-animated, featuring the then-young animators of the late 2000s. Some of the animation was controversial among viewers due to the director letting the young animators do as they please, but personally I liked the unique styles they brought onto the show.

>>84338735
I don't watch anime but I've tried to here and there and always get too bored and it's always too familiar, I watched so much more when I was still a young Naruto fag
You're so dumb that you assume I've literally not seen ANY recent anime at all just because I don't regularly watch anime

Way to prove me wrong with your second point

You're not worth talking to because when I already suggest you could enlighten me with good shows you go with the same "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT YOU DON'T FREQUENT /a/

Kys

>>84338811
Not even, I rather watch fucking yu yu Hakusho over any garbage being put out on toonami nowadays

>EVERYTHING U SEE IS A MYTH
And you're a condescending anime fag, enjoy that virginity

>>84338851

I would ask why don't they just set up patreons and draw porn?

Then I realized people would just steal it and put it on some porn website and try and make money off it themselves.

>>84331356
Sauce?

>>84337673
is this just GIF or is it really that much of a slideshow in the show itself

>>84332904
>When have you heard someone say they won't watch an animated movie because it's hand-drawn?
Many parents have told me that their kids refuse to watch hand-drawn animation.

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>>84338486
I hated that vegetto was shown more

>>84338944
The gif is choppier than the show but it has the characteristics of a slide show to simulate the extreme speeds at which the guy mows down half an army hand-to-hand. It's ep 322 of Naruto shippuden if you want to check it out for yourself.

>>84338851
NOPE!

Thing is the top animators are getting fucked in the ass by Koreans and Chinese with fucking insane mechanical skill that accept complete shit wages for their services.

I MEAN SHIT!

The only way they can compete with people is by shoveling shit paychecks with superior artists and FUCK it still isn't cutting it.

Eventually you are only going to see Korean and Chinese animators because they will draw FUCKING MONA LISA and animate it and go back to their dirt hut after getting paid with two FUCKING pork buns.

>>84331560
Dr Zaius Dr Zaius

>>84338847
>>84338851
According to an industry report, a key animator averages 2.82 million yen a year which is $25,000.

Key animators are in high demand because the industry is producing so much and there's not enough people to animate it all. There's no line out the door, there's a shortage of animators.

>>84338912
>EVERYTHING U SEE IS A MYTH
Well I'm sorry but that's just how it is.

>>84339009
>Thing is the top animators are getting fucked in the ass by Koreans and Chinese with fucking insane mechanical skill that accept complete shit wages for their services.
This is not actually happening.

>>84339009
Thing with Chinese and Koreans is yeah they can fucking carve mount rushmore in a few months but they can't make anything new. They lack creativity with their muh honor being copying people. It is accepted as the norm as it should be, because when you actually get a billion thinking individuals rather than indoctrinated worker bees you have a problem.

>>84339065
Whaaaaat did you just say you little bitch?

$25k is NOT a livable wage in mother fucking japan. The reason they are getting fucked like this is because they can CREATE while making superior animation to the KOREANS and CHINESE!

FAMILY GUY was outsourced to MOTHERFUCKING koreans biiiiiiiittch! I am sure there is many more too!

They have to pay them slave wages because those fucking fucks can copy MOTHER FUCKING ANYTHING (varying in quality) and accept fucking DIRT as pay!

>>84338912
>I don't watch anime but I've tried to here and there
List some titles. I'd be surprised if there's more than 5 and they aren't all in the same genre and from the same studio. Again: you know jack shit. You've seen basically nothing and your knowledge is based off a very, very small sliver of the anime out there yet you're trying to act like some kind of authority. Anyone who has watched a decent number of shows (>100) knows you're full of shit and are just another dumb ass who's watched less than 20 anime crying about how he can't find another Cowboy Bebop.

>>84339065
>According to an industry report, a key animator averages 2.82 million yen a year which is $25,000
Care to post that report? Cause I've seen glass door posts where character animators from two different studios claim to be making on average ~30k/y. And those guys are not even senior staff.

>>84339149
>$25k is NOT a livable wage in mother fucking japan.
I guess it isn't. And that's exactly the problem. Animators are paid little in Japan.

>the reason they are getting fucked like this is because they can CREATE while making superior animation to the KOREANS and CHINESE!
Wages have always been low in the anime industry, and it has nothing to do with Korea or China.

>FAMILY GUY was outsourced to MOTHERFUCKING koreans biiiiiiiittch! I am sure there is many more too!
There are many more, because almost all American animation gets outsourced to Korea. But so what?

>>84339182
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2016/11/08/anime-craft-weekly-18-pa-worls-but-not-really/

>>84339076
Not really related to this thread but I saw a documentary about chinese Van Gogh imitators. The technical skill level was amazing for a bunch of random workers but as you say, they only did this one thing - copied work.

>>84339065
>>84339182
Actually just double checked my math: the salaries run the gamut from ~27k/y to ~38k/y for character animators, can't find anything as low as 25k or less.

>>84339242
>https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2016/11/08/anime-craft-weekly-18-pa-worls-but-not-really/
Those are some mighty low salaries from PA Works. Might be the ones I found were exceptional for the industry, I recall one of the studios was Polygon, which is a bit unusual and I know they are very highly regarded in the anime industry, so that's probably why.

>>84339242

Then why the FUCK do they get paid so little boyo? You just think the Japanese love to fuck their own japanese over?

Nope, they don't do any fucking their birthrates are so low the whole japanese race may go motherfuckin extinct!

>>84339258
There's no character animators, there's just animators. Animators are paid per drawing regardless of what they draw. The same report gives in-between animators an average yearly pay of just under $10,000.

Something that probably messes with the statistics is that key animators aren't just animators, they can also work as animation directors and character designers which apparently pays more.

>>84339364
As the post states PA Works pays above industry averages. And they provide living facilities.

Polygon works differently from normal anime studios because it's a 3D animation studio.

>>84339387
They get paid little. That's just the reality of the industry. End of story.

>>84339512

A fucking call center team lead here in the states makes more than a professional japanese animator.

Why the fuck do they still continue to animate for that cost when they could just do a desk job and get paid more for it.

>>84333354
Garden of Words.

>>84339705
They want to be animators. It's a passion for them, not a job. Even some foreign animators go to work in Japan. Bahi JD is a famous example.

Animators earn more over time as they become faster, and if they're good enough they'll get to work on projects that might pay better, like movies. Animation direction and character design duties also pay more but require experience.

>>84331856
>anime romance

Holy fuck you're missing a MASSIVE part of Jin-Roh if you think 90 percent of its romance. A bulk of the movie is about political intrigue

Problem with anime as a medium today is that the subject matter has turned to shit and nobody is willing to animate anything remotely risque because the already low proft margins would dwindle further as the devoted fanbase (otaku) aren't pandered to.
Go on /a/ and marvel as how they circlejerk over popular anime shows having any DVD/BD pre-orders number above 16,000.

80's-90's anime had a lot of good sci-fi shit because Japan had a hardon for robots and the future but as a whole the industry had much more variety even if quantifiably they pumped out 1/4th of the shows they do today.

Back then anime had prime-time evening TV show slots (as well as late-night and Saturday morning slots like they still do today).


*****The important fucking thing to realize is that one of the reasons why anime has become so mundane is because there was a TV censorship law passed in the late 90s as concern spread over young children watching animation shows with sexual themes and violence because they were much more predisposed for that content because children as a demographic watched more cartoons than adults. But you won't fucking hear/know about this unless you actively are old enough to remember or speak Japanese*****

>>84335438
Please enlighten us, anon.

>>84340292
>Problem with anime as a medium today is that the subject matter has turned to shit and nobody is willing to animate anything remotely risque because the already low proft margins would dwindle further as the devoted fanbase (otaku) aren't pandered to.
Myth. Again.

>80's-90's anime had a lot of good sci-fi shit because Japan had a hardon for robots and the future but as a whole the industry had much more variety even if quantifiably they pumped out 1/4th of the shows they do today.
There was actually less variety than today.

>The important fucking thing to realize is that one of the reasons why anime has become so mundane is because there was a TV censorship law passed in the late 90s
TV anime in the 20th century was tamer than it is today.

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Can we just post more nice animation, please?

>>84340446
>Myth. Again.
Look at the sales number of OPM today, and old Production I.G shows like Seirei no Moribito. Actually, look up most shows of that year (2007) and look up the sales figures of what non highschool trash had. You'd be pretty disappointed to find out how many shows had barely any sales.

>There was actually less variety than today.
There's plenty of sources out there that list anime shows by season and year. I only ask you for a cursory google to see how wrong you are

>TV anime in the 20th century was tamer than it is today.
That's why they regularly censor old reruns of Doraemon, huh.

>>84340622
Disc sales have been declining, but the industry's profits have gone up. Disc sales aren't everything.

>There's plenty of sources out there that list anime shows by season and year. I only ask you for a cursory google to see how wrong you are.
Take your own advice.

>That's why they regularly censor old reruns of Doraemon, huh.
The standards for children's/daytime TV may have tightened, but I'm talking about all TV anime here.

>>84340669
And also the more shows there are released (there are tons now) the less sales there will be to go around. People only have so much money they can spend on anime.