Anyone else agree?

>>84315827
No because it followed the marvel fun+childish formula perfectly.

>>84315827
Childhood is when you idolize Marvel
Adulthood is when you realize that DC makes more sense.

>>84315827
This is accurate.

>>84315827
I actually do. I didn't at first, but now I do.

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You can't deny this.

>>84316082
Haha DC are so edgy I like it xD

>>84315827
And if you're an actual fan of film, it's shit.

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>>84316082
>Implying Joker was even vaguely scary in Suicide Squad
>Implying Joker was anything other than a glorified cameo in Suicide Squad

Will 4chan ever learn that ironically pretending to like or something will within a couple years lead to a generation that unironically defends it and doesn't understand it was a joke?

>>84316082
I have just checked and my mother is, in fact, freaking.

Someone needs to stop this clearly unstable individual.

>>84315827
But it sucks for comic readers. Batman should not kill or use a gun. That's not Doomsday's origin at all and he looks like shit. Lex Luthor acts more like the Joker rather than how he is supposed to act, and isn't even bald until the end.

>>84316193
You think they actually think ahead at all? Or even care for that matter?

>>84315827
Comic readers is a very broad term.
You could be an advent Casper the fucking ghost comic reader, but that doesn't mean you'll think BvS is a damn great awesome movie.

>>84316193
this is what happened with avatar, correct?

>>84316193
>>84316237
>They think people loving BvS is ironic
back to r/mcu faggots

>>84316253
its a shill image to try to create an "us vs them" conflict to avoid having to defend any aspect of the DCEU by creating a criteria for dismissal of all dissenting opinion.

>>84316333
>m-muh s-s-shills
/pol/ is thataway, Trumpflake

>>84316253
As someone who's read comics for most of my life, I see what they're doing and appreciate it. I think it's a fantastic movie, among the best comics films ever made.

>>84316082
wow so edgy amirite!

>>84316317
Meh. I've liked Avatar since I saw it in theatres. Watched it five times.

/co/ here. It's trash. I'll gladly watch Batman & Robin before I watch this again.

DC has really grown on my. I really enjoyed Man of Steel. My only issue with it was how no one seemed to care that he basically wrecked everything and killed shit tons of people. Then we got this which explains that yeah, not everyone was OK with it.

I thoroughly enjoyed both flicks. The first even more so after seeing this.

They are VERY different from marvel though. Marvel wants to make you laugh. That is fine! I love marvel movies. But its hard to compare the two because outside of being capeshit they both have different focuses. When DC tries to capture the marvel funny shit you end up with suicide squad which while ok, just comes off as tryhard. They need to focus on what works like BvS and WW.

>>84316180
Just wait for the ultimate cut, comrade

>>84317267
>/co/ here.
Thanks for writing that so I don't have to read the rest of the post.

>>84317267
>/co/ here
/lit/ here
no one cares.

>>84316193
you lost marvelpajeet. now stfu.

>>84315827
No, as it just is a poorly written, edited an directed movie that doesn't hold up together because it takes itself too seriously despite being one of the stupidest comic book movies around.

I actually cant watch either. both follow such a similar, dried up formula which is nauseating to taste.

>>84317547
Sure. The Ultimate Cut for BvS was suppose to save that movie too.

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>>84316392
>viral marketing doesnt exist on 4chan
umm... sweety...

>>84316082
CUT MY WRISTS AND BLACK MY EYES

Why was WW shoehorned into BvS?

>>84317639
Wish I had the picture of the shitskin talking about how BvS was "capekino" and praising "based zaddy" on twitter

>>84316013
>Childhood is when you like to have fun
>Adulthood is when you realize that your mother is going to die in her sleep tonight.

>>84317810
because they realized there wasn't anything good in it otherwise?

>>84317810

Setup. She wasn't shoehorned, she was just introduced. They did the same this in marvel movies with their characters.

Things you gotta do in shared universes.
Everything aside, as much as I loved MoS, BvS, and WW I am REALLY not looking forward to Justice League. Every trailer I have seen just looks fucking baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

>>84317945
>She wasn't shoehorned

I was going to try to argue this, but then I realized BvS was, first and foremost, a trailer for the DCEU.

>>84317945
but it was a batman and superman movie, I don't give a fuck about some random harlot who just happens to be there and is made a big deal out of

I'm a 'comic book reader' and didn't think it was a very good movie. The term 'comic book reader' is disingenuous though. Do they mean like, wacky silver age antics? edgey 80s/90s, faux high concept shit of the early 2000s or like, modern comics?

>>84318080
I think its just supposed to generate response.

>>84316193
That's just a correlation. There's no causation there.

Whats really happening is when shit is released, people with taste will see shit, dismiss/mock it as shit, then forget about it. Then a few years later people who were 12 (give or take) when shit was released will turn 18 (or be old enough to know not to say "HAY GUISE 16 YEAR OLD HERE") will end up on 4chan defending it. Implying people are going on 4chan and reading ironic praise and interpreting it as honest opinion is pretty stupid.

This is ignoring the fact WB has dropped over a billion on marketing the DCEU, independent of each entry's marketing budget.

>>84318336
>Implying people are going on 4chan and reading ironic praise and interpreting it as honest opinion is pretty stupid.

well, this happens, but 12 year olds aren't doing it.

>>84315827
Almost, except one error
>if you're a comic book reader, you're a fucking loser nerd

>>84315827
>if you're a comic reader it's a damn great awesome movie
Okay, not only does that sentence read like it was written by a child like retard, but it's 100% wrong. Classic Superman isn't a mopy guy that thinks of saving people as a curse or a punishment and doesn't destroy the city he's saving like the Ayn Rand-esque Snyder version. Classic Batman DOES NOT KILL and DOES NOT USE GUNS. Sure the first comics he did, but he has not since the fifties except in weirdo alternate versions.
I don't hate DC movies though, Dark Knight trilogy and Reeves Superman are cape kino.

>>84315827
Comic fans raged harder than anyone else.

They raged at MoS (superman snapping a neck, and superman taking the fight from the countryside into a metro area just so that more sponsors could appear on screen). That was far too out of character for him.

They raged even harder at batman's branding criminals and sending them to their death, and his willingness to kill superman. They also hated lex for having petty motives instead of being a criminal genius.

most of all they seem to have hated the fact that Lex Luther created all of their super hero logos.

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>>84318667
>Classic Superman isn't
What makes you think this is classic Superman? DCEU Superman shares most character traits with Peace on Earth/Kingdom Come Superman. You know, the actual good Superman comics and not the corny shit.

What's funny though is that Nolan Batman isn't "classic" Batman either but you won't bitch about that. It's only a problem now is it?

>>84316082
AH AH AH AHHHHHHH.

Fuck you.

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>>84319089
>They
Not they. You. All this imaginary shit you're making up making problems out of things the film explicitly makes itself aware of and even points out. Yes Batman is broken. That's the fucking story. It's his redemption story. He is supposed to be broken down and lost. It's what the story of the film is about. It's Superman rekindling his lost ideology.

This isn't about comic book fans hating BvS, this is about a select obnoxious loud Marvel fanboys who are mad that Snyder portrayed a world with actual consequences.

>>84319092
WHAT THE FUCK ALEX ROSS CHILL WITH THE JESUS SYMBOLISM HOLY SHIT THIS IS NOTHING LIKE MUH COMICS

>>84319163
But DC fans compalined the loudest with each film. I am talkign actual comic fans who buy the books monthly for the past few decades, not the casual DC fags who buy joker shirts at hot topic. They were fucking pissed and at my theater on opening night many left the theater angry.

That week at the comic shop there was nothing but pissing and moaning. Not a single comic fan came to defend the film except one marvel guy who "thought it was alright".

>>84319089
>and superman taking the fight from the countryside into a metro area just so that more sponsors could appear on screen
All the obnoxious product placement was in smallville. Metropolis was just so we could have 9/11x1,000,000 so actionbabbies could cum over all the destruction.

>>84319240
Yes "not a single person". Yes. You're perfectly right. It's exactly as you say. Truly an amazing and honest insight from our resident Marvel shills.

>>84316082

>marvel: our villains should have a clearly defined character whose motivations are clear

>DC: fuck characters and motivations, his mom has the same name so now they're friends.

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>>84319314
>Marvel
Our villains should be copypaste evil guys with no memorable traits and all and also a quip kills them in the end!

Bravo Feige!

>>84319312
It was the marvel guy who liked BvS. The DC fans were the ones who felt betrayed.

>>84319312
You really need to get a new PR packet from WB guy. You're in here every day samefagging crying about muh pajeets whenever someone doesn't agree with you.
Did you ever stop to think maybe you're the no taste shill shitposter?

>>84319364
The "real" DC fan that constantly whine about there not being enough Marvel quips and cartoon characters? Yeah you can stop with the concern trolling. It's as predictable as your shitty Marvels.

>>84315827

As much as its the typical 9gag normie bullshit, its 100% accurate.

Its not a film for people expecting a quipfest.

>>84319092
Marvelfag status: Ousted

Let's see how he worms his way out of this embarrassment.

>>84319416
>I'm the only REAL DC fan because I shill for their shittiest movies

>>84316204
Autistic retard

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>>84319478
>I'm the ONLY real DC fan because I spend my free time leaking shit over a film I didn't like and then whine it wasn't as quippy and kids-oriented like my Marvels

>>84316082
That's illegal DC.

I think we have WB shill who pretends to be a DC supporter. He has probably never even read a comic in his life and yet he defends DCEU as a brand rather than love for the characters. When a DC fan expresses criticism for out of character moments on film, the WB shill lashes out and calls them marvel cucks.

>>84316204
How is Lex "supposed to act"? A mere copypaste of the Donner Lex? Would that be exciting film? How about the fact that Donner Lex acts nothing like the real classic Lex? Did you also complain that Donner Lex isn't acting "as Lex is supposed to act"?

>>84315827
This has to be straight from reddit

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>>84316204
>claims to be a comic book reader
>hates Elseworld stories
fuck off

>>84317945
>Setup. She wasn't shoehorned, she was just introduced. They did the same this in marvel movies with their characters.
But they don't marvel characters are introduced closer to what they did with the other DCEU characters, only character I can think that straight up appeared as a character in another characters movie before their own was black panther and spiderman in civil war,

>>84317267
What's your favorite episode of Steven Universe?

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>>84319528
Imagine being this concern trolling Marvel Pajeet getting absolutely wrecked when called out on his fake DC interest. Reminder, he still hasn't recovered after >>84319092 ousting his ass so hard.

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Marvelfags have now reached a status of BTFO so hard they don't even dare say they like Marvel anymore because their shit is so embarrassing.

KINO thread
needs more BASED black men
#MAGA

>>84319314
I thought the whole scene was about Bruce realizing that Superman has his own Martha and people he wants to protect. And unlike Bruce, he hadn't lost them yet. But then batsy kept on going about WHY DID YOU SAY HER NAME which kind of didn't make sense anymore. It was almost a good scene but then it wasn't

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>>84316082
im pretty sure thousands of edgy kids liked the hot topic joker.

ever notice how when someone points out indefensible flaws with the DCEU, the threads turn into nothing but accusations about south asain shilling?

really gets the noggin joggin

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>>84319626
DCEU:
>Budget Total (4 films): $799 million
>Box office Total (4 films): $2.939 billion

MCU:
>Budget Total (15 films): $2.83 billion (gross)
$2.71 billion (net)
>Box office Total (15 films): $11.759 billion

How will DCEU fags ever recover? You fucks are stuck with worshipping the non theatrical versions of your shitty movies that barely anyone will ever see.

>>84316082
I unironically love this image.

>>84318080
The only thing I'm out of touch with are "modern" comics, as in the last decade or so. I've got collections of titles from both big companies that span the late 60s through the early 00s, and lots from the smaller companies as well.

Someone currently writing for the DC films seems to be quite taken with a lot of the concepts and themes explored in "Planetary."

>>84319925
Yeah the "indefensible" flaws that were debunked >>84319542
>>84319092
And more and yet Marvel shitposters keep turn around and make new shitposts because they know actually replying embarrasses them so hard. You are a coward and a faggot.

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>>84316082
>moms gonna freak

>>84319935
Atleast you removed your mask. That's progress! You pretending to be oh so concerned for DC was getting very tiresome.

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>>84315827
>DCcucks fedora tippers are so insecure they make the same bread every day to feed their high ego.

>>84315827
ITS A DUDE DRESSED AS A BAT AND FLYING ALIEN LAZOR EYED MAN

IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN AND CHILDISH AND IT WILL ONLY LOOK FUNNY INSTEAD OF FUN IF YOU TRY TO MAKE IT IN SOME KIND OF NOIR

>>84320226
>Marvel fanboy is fat manchild while DCbro is a cool guy just wanting to chill and enjoy his kinographique
Looks accurate

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>>84320117
>Planetary
That crossover when they fought batman was a wonderful tribute to the various versions of him over the years.

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>>84320226
>Saying Marvel is for kiddies
At this rate, not even Marvel fanboys are disagreeing. Their enjoyment of Marvel films basically derive from "sarcastically" enjoying them because they're supposed to be dumb and shallow.

>>84320226
>dat fuckin irony

Someone cared, and I bet it was you. The only thing I can't wrap my head around is "why?" Is it jealousy?

>>84320278
>Flaseflagging
<arvel Fanboy is man just enjoying his own konography, and DCcuck is sad edgy chidlren criticizing movies he didnt even see.

State of /tv/

>>84320307
That was so damn good.

>>84316013
>Childhood is when you watch and enjoy capeshit
>Adulthood is when you shitpost in /tv/ about capeshit you don't actually watch

Fix'd.

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>>84320363
Marvel isn't even only for kids, it's for a widder audience. It's not that they are more "Kid friendly", It's that they are not gritty sad pieces of shit trying the 2deep4u formula, and failing miserably.

>>84316082

I saw this image months ago and just dismissed it as normie bullshit. But now the more I look at this image, the funnier it gets.

>>84320478
>left panel
Holy shit that's awful. I bet the tumblrinas were fingerbanging themselves hard at the gay undertones.

>>84315827
so right

>>84316193

>they think we're pretending to like BvS

Plebs will be the first to hang on the day of the rope.

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>>84320439
>That was so damn good.
It starts out with batman as a comic relief character and then reality shifts and they are suddenly face to face with pic related.

I am a DC comics fanboy who couldn't ever give a fuck about Marvel, and one that thoroughly enjoyed Man of Steel.

No, from that "comic reader" angly I simply can't approve BvS. Snyder claims that he was deeply inspired by The Dark Knight Returns to make BvS, but it is painfully obvious to me that he only looked at the pics and went "oh cool, Batman with a power armor beating the shit out of Superman" but didn't actually read the damn comic.

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>Be Marvel fanboy
>Have to be in BvS threads 24/7
>Have to falseflag, lie and make up nonsense arguments that gets debunked after two minutes for months on end

What is he actually afraid of? That narrative will spin out of his control?

>>84320520
Why is it so awful? I dont get it. Can you explain without using memes, or refering to other websites you clearly frecuent but are too afraid to accept?

>>84320651
>Be DCcuck
>Make the same bread every day, because he is too insecure to like a movie and be the only one doing so
>Project insecurities onto Marvel Fans to avoid facing them
shaking my head desu

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>>84320601
The Dark Knight Returns only serve as the core basis of the story. There are a multitude of other DC comics that BvS takes its influences from aswell, creating its own whole. That's the charm. It's not just an adaption. It's a gathering of various comics creating a new one. What's the appeal of just having the same story told in another medium when you can go so much further?

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>>84320503
Leto's Joker is a lot like that old quote from Lon Chaney:

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight."

>>84319935
2.939 / 4 = 0,734

11.759 / 15 = 0,783

But every movie winds up another so...

>>84320601
The story basically *is* TDKR, only the roles are reversed. I mean that in a surprising number of ways.

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>>84320744
Proving my point. Literally too afraid that narrative will spin out of your control. A narrative you've spent months on nurturing, all crashing down in a matter of days. All it took was for people to actually see the film.

>>84320745
>The Dark Knight Returns only serve as the core basis of the story.

And gets it all wrong. Batman in that comic went super-edgy and angry, but the point is that he never could kill anybody. Not even the Joker, as much as he wanted to.

>>84320899
>gets it wrong
Did you even read what I wrote you dumb fuck? It was never a 1:1 adaption of TDKR but rather its own take while also infusing elements of ther DC comic books. But yes thank you for pointing out that Superman isn't a Reagan tool in BvS. I would never have noticed otherwise.

>>84320826
reversing the roles in TDKR renders both entirely nonsensical

>>84320899
See >>84320826.

Turn off your cognitive dissonance vision and embrace the truth.

>>84320843
>"I refuse to acknowledge your point"
>"Instead I'll just say you are proving a point i didnt make"
W.e.W. farn. You are only admitting your narrative is a mess.

>>84320970
Except, Snyder himself uses TDKR to justify Batman being an insane, murderous asshole in the movie, which is totally not the case in that comic.

But you obviously know more of Snyder's intention with the movie than Snyder himself.

>9gag

Ever notice how some DCcucks still use the "TDK was a great movie, and BvS was based on it, so it's a great movie as well" formula?
It's either sad or stupid. I cant tell

>>84316082
Jesus Christ

What did you mean by this, pablo?
https://archive.4plebs.org/tv/search/image/XuvP8-dgiVY0FRFuBhRp4g/

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>>84321118
You obviously know more of BvS than BvS itself. The film never attempts to glorify or justify his killings. In fact, BvS Batman is the ONLY Batman where his methods are called into questioning.

I know for certain you didn't give a single shit about the people he killed in the Burton/Nolan films. It's only now a problem when Snyder is doing it, despite Snyder being the only one actually portraying it a problem. So by your line of thought, you should be PRAISING Snyder but you're too dumb to even follow a consistent line of thinking.

>>84321134
okay.
this HAS to be bait.

but in case this isn't, they're not talking about the Dark Knight movie, but the comic books.

>>84317482
Suicide Squad won an oscar though.

>>84321244
>a grand total of one person is killed by batman in the nolan films
>a big deal is made of it

vs

>they might be evil so we need to kill them all!

>>84321001
How?

>In TDKR
Batman is harried, dark, troubled, and grim but hasn't abandoned his principles. The media is all abuzz with his one-man campaign against crime, talking heads debate his importance and societal impact. Superman has sold out to the government entirely, he cripples, he maims, he goes to war as our secret weapon, and he confronts Bruce in his role as a pawn of the government, loses both physically and philosophically, witnesses Bruce "die" and has a graveside reveal of just how big a change of heart he's really had.

>In BvS
Superman is harried, reticent, and troubled by what he's seeing in the world, but he hasn't yet abandoned his principles. The media is all abuzz with heroism and talking heads debate his societal, political, and metaphysical impact on the world. Batman has bought into the narrative that Clark is a dangerous, perhaps existential threat. In pursuit of his own personal war campaign against Supes, he cripples, he maims, he kills, and he confronts Clark as a pawn of the elite, and wins the physical confrontation but loses the philosophical one, witnesses Clark's "death," and has a graveside reveal of just how big a change of heart he's really had.

And what's more, it makes more sense in virtually every direction for the world to debate the impact of Superman and for Bruce's twenty-year crusade to have taken a toll on him.

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>>84321244
>I know for certain you didn't give a single shit about the people he killed in the Burton/Nolan films
He never killed anyone int hose films.

Batman risked his own life and crashed his motorcycle to avoid running over the joker. He would rather bring harm to himself than kill someone. The entire point of the film was the joker pushing batman to kill and batman refusing to do so.

In DKR the joker goes as far as breaking his own neck to kill himself just to fuck with batman's "no killing" rule.

>>84320520
>Being bros is gay

news to me

>>84321300
In all likelihood, it's a kid that doesn't even realize TDKR existed as anything but an animated film.

>>84316082
FLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR

>>84321474
>He never killed anyone in those films.
Oh boy why do I even bother engaging in these discussions? Burton Batman literally straps bombs on henchmen just because it makes him feel good. Not even BvS Batman is that brutal despite the film portraying a worn down and lost Batman.

>>84321474
Just to clarify that Burton batman really did kill people.
Nolan batman was the "no killing" one but he still allowed criminals die by not saving them.

>>84316082
>@comicwebhead

>>84321577
Marvel is filled with slightly gay undertones because its most vocal fanbase are generally overweight tumblrinas writing fanfic shipping stories.

>>84321474
He didn't directly kill people intentionally. One of the last scenes in Batman Begins has Raz getting killed with Batman not helping him. Batman knew what would happen, he didn't directly cause the situation, but he didn't save Raz either and even told him he wouldn't save him.

Not going one way or the other in this discussion. Just pointing it out.

>>84321459
This makes sense. Batman has always had to battle way more insane enemies, and with him doing it much longer than Supes, Batman has had mental issues crop up. He probably gets less sleep as well.

>>84321438
Nolan Batman killed

>Ninjas in a fire
>Ra's al Ghul (yes, abandoning someone to their fate is killing them as surely as putting a bullet in their skull)
>Harvey Dent

And that's just off the top of my head. What's worse, it's over the course of his entire career. BvS Bruce's killing was limited specifically to his vendetta campaign against Superman.

>>84321805
yes anon, of the 1.2 billon Avengers made, 600+ was made because of "tumblrinas".
>This is what all DCcucks think

>>84315827
I agree with it, I hated mos but enjoyed bvs quite a bit. Felt like I was watching a justice league comic the entire time. Though to be homest I dont tend to enjoy comicbook movies as a whole so go figure.

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>>84321459
Nice post. I agree that BvS makes more sense than TDKR. Maybe it's the optimist in me tired of all the Batman jerking in media. Superman IS the greater man. I'm glad Snyder didn't back out on that. Superman is the fucking alpha ubermenschen of DC. It makes sense that Batman would break before he did.

>>84321963
Batmen, Dent and the kid all went over the side. The kid was saved but batman and dent both fell and were laying side by side at the bottom. Batman survived, Dent didn't.

That one is complicated because batman was unable to save them both. It was a survivable fall but batman still felt responsible.

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>>84322136
>Felt like I was watching a justice league comic the entire time
I think Snyder and Fong deserves more credit for making a comic book film that actually captures the visual power of comic books. A far cry from the glorified TV shows of you know what.

>>84315827
>if you're a tasteless manchild it's a damn great awesome movie!
Really makes you think.

>>84320816
DCEU riding off of success of big name superhero's like Superman and Batman who have all had successful several successful blockbusters before.

MCU builds from the ground up with Iron who? Thor who? and Captain who? And have done much better according to both critic and user reviews across the board. This is why I respect MCU more. The fact that all you contrarian fucks like DCEU is testament to how successful the MCU has been because you just enjoy being the edgy hipster who likes what all the "plebs" and "normies" don't like. In reality you are social pariah and will fail at reproducing.

>>84322222
Quints of pure truth.

>>84322222
I honestly thought the action scenes were pretty great too and did a really good job at showing off the power of each hero. They had a lot of impact to them and were nice to watch.

>>84321667
All the cinematic batmen killed people. Pretty sure adam west even dehydrated someone into dust in the old batman movie.
Nothing beats the stupidity of batman forever though where he stops robin from killing two face just so he can kill him himself.

>>84322323
>fail at reproducing
As far as this DCbro is concerned, you're about twelve years' worth of retroactive BTFO.

>>84322222
QUINTS OF TRUTH

>>84322323
>MCU builds from the ground up with Iron who? Thor who? and Captain who?
They didn't have much choice, marvel licensed the rights to their most popular franchises to film companies long before they were bought by disney.
If disney had the rights you know they would have started with x men and spider man.

>>84316082
holy shit shit shit shit.....

>>84316082
I can't handle that cringe senpai

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Man of Steel Box office $668 million
BVS Box office $873.3 million
Suicide Squad Box office $745.6 million
Wonder Woman Box office $652.9 million

If people really hate dceu so much why do they shell out more money for it?

Fans LOVE the movies. Critics HATE it. What a glaring disconnect. People just want to laugh & have fun.

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>148 replies and counting

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>>84321963
>killing people is the same as letting them die
pleb-tier morality, my dude.

>>84322600
And Justice League teaser trailer has one of the highest trailer views ever. People are excited about it aswell. The anti-DCEU brigade is mostly contained in select areas of the Internet, where there is also huge Marvel dickriding going on.

>>84322524
If that had happened, the cinematic universe trend would have never stared.

>>84322726
The end result is the same.

>They die.

Or is Batman really just concerned with his ego rather than the actual person living or dying?

Whatever, no kill rule is fucking retarded anyways and only exists to milk the comics further. It has no place in cinema.

>>84321459
batman becoming despondent in having to face his extreme limitations makes sense

superman doesn't actually have limits

>>84322726
BvS Batman doesn't directly kill anyone either. They're all guys who got blown up as collateral damage or guys who should have stopped shooting and ducked.

>>84322631
this your first "we have to pretend the DCEU isn't shit every second between each movie in order to put asses in seats for the next movie" thread?

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How many times have you rewatched BvS? I'm reaching my fifth view this Saturday.

>>84322922
>shooting someone isn't directly killing them

that's all folks

>>84322890
That's why he's not despondent. I used the word "troubled" for a reason. You can't punch public perception. Some people see him as a dangerous alien, a lot more people see him as some sort of god, and neither of those are particularly good things.

>>84322969
He doesn't shoot anyone. He shoots *at* equipment, starting all the way back at the car chase.

>>84323052
So shooting at cars and making them explode is not killing?

>>84322962
7 times bro
and my eyes are wet everytime i have to watch clark sacrifice himself for the same humans that hate him

>>84322962
I'm well past a dozen at this point. The music is top-tier comfy.

>>84316082
These threads are great

>>84323081
I want you to understand that these aren't *my* excuses. They're Bruce's. It's him that's splitting hairs, and it's because he's a jacked up psychological mess.

>>84323012
>hes not upset about his limits
>hes upset about his limits
The stupidity in your post is quite astounding.

The general character arc of clark in the DCEU, so far, has been
>do nothing of any real worth of value
>get upset when people aren't sure what to make of you
>"kill" yourself

>>84323179
>I don't have to defend this idiocy because its not my idiocy, its just the idiocy of my headcanon interpretation of a character in a movie

...

>>84323190
>facile oversimplification is facile

I never said he didn't have limits. You did. I just said he's not despondent.

>>84323240
>DCEU clark
>not despondent

...

I also like how you completely missed the part about how you, yourself, said clark was upset that he didn't have much control over what people thought of him. This, would be, in effect, a limit, that is making him upset.

>>84315827
anyone has the one claiming BvS was going to make over 2b$?

>>84317945
>Every trailer I have seen just looks fucking baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

There's only one trailer released you retard

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>>84323223
It's not headcanon. Why do you think he doesn't just pack heat and go to town on mooks in full-on Punisher mode instead of relying on his traditional weaponry or why he shoots KGBeast's flamethrower instead of the man himself? It's because he can't.

He can't kill anyone in a way he can't justify as self-defense and even then not without something to distance himself from the act. You probably think he made a kryptonite spear instead of a bullet just because it's "cool."

Pic actually related, believe it or not. If you don't think comics don't do things like this all the time, you either haven't read many comics or just haven't been paying much attention.

>>84316082
>fuck the kids

if you insist :3

>>84323496
Because WB checklist demanded batman, not punisher. It demanded batman, but badass, which means he has to kill people in creative and special effects laden ways. Just shooting someone wouldn't be "batman."

There is no real underlying motivations or characterization for anything that happens in the DCEU beyond mindless checklist fulfillment.

>>84323322
So you're saying he doesn't have limits? Is that what you're saying? And you're disagreeing with me for pointing out that his limitations are so nigh-on nonexistent that you have to move into the realm of the perceptual, moral, or even metaphysical before you find some?

Stop being such a fine-parsing dipshit. It only makes you come off as small, petty, and massively butthurt.

>>84323631
You cynical enough to write actual blockbusters. Too bad it doesn't provide you with the barest of insights into something with actual depth and care put into it.

>>84323666
The point I've made, that you can't actually touch, is clark hasn't done much at all in the DCEU and is upset, for no good reason, that people aren't sure what to make of him.

this is absolutely inarguable.

Attempting to claim hes upset because he can't control what people think of him is completely inane because, yes, he can, as he doesn't actually have any limits

>>84323727
Son, all depth you've come to see in the DCEU is just a reflection of your own asshole. As that's where all of this is coming from.

>>84323754
I think you're an asshole. Change my mind.

Pro tip:you can't.

Patrician tip:neither can Superman

>>84323788
Condescend away, dipshit. You'll be here in six months insisting that no one ever told you why Clark's likely going to come back thinking Bruce is some kind of mind-reader.

>>84315827
No even if you read comics you should be expecting better. I know I did. Their superman sucks, their cinematography sucks, their pacing sucks, their climax sucks, their visuals suck, their acting sucks.

overall i rate it a snyderfilm/10

>>84316333
This guy gets it

>>84315827
Fuck no
Reading comics makes the film even worse. Just accept it /tv/, your opinions are trash. No one remembers MoS and BvS is mocked as a joke. On the otherhand WW is heralded as the first good DC film and SS won a fucking oscar.

>>84323954
I rate your post butthurt marvelfag/10

It's ok there'll always be the next Kevin Feige masterpiece to clap away at!

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>>84324101
You know why Lex has hair for most of the film?

Because having a bald guy more interested in branding superheroes than letting them *be* superheroes would have been a little bit too on the nose.

>>84324250
They tell me the real one was sold in '98. This one is just a fake copy.

>>84324101
>I rate your post butthurt marvelfag/10
>
>It's ok there'll always be the next Kevin Feige masterpiece to clap away at!

Its ok If hate them both for being awful right? I liked Man of Steel personally just not this garbage.

>>84324555
You come across any other sly references in that particular vein?

>>84315827
How is it a great movie for comic book readers? It completely misunderstands and misinterprets its two tentpole characters.

>>84315827
>it's a damn great awesome movie
lol stupid people who think they're above other stupid people are fun

>>84325565
Not really. A quiet farm boy from Kansas is learning that you can't be quiet farm boy as Superman, sometimes letting your actions do the talking isn't enough.

Bruce has said for years that one of the biggest reasons he doesn't kill is because he was afraid if he ever started, he might not be able to stop. Turns out he was right. It took the Superman to stop him.

I really don't see the problem here.

>>84323838
If I were superman I'd go all around the world doing awesome shit for no personal gain (because the world has nothing to offer me) until you have no choice but to just deal with the fact I'm not an asshole.

>>84325889
Because you don't read the comics.You've read Millar's stupid versions of those characters.

Start with All-Star Superman. Then work backwards.

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>>84325565
How does it misunderstand any of them in the context they are presented in?

If you completely ignore everything about the world these characters are thrust in, then you MIGHT have an argument, even then a very loose one as Superman still adheres to his true beliefs and vanquishes great evil from Earth saving Batman from his lost way. You see, his way being lost and a central story of the film bringing Batman back into the light.

It's honestly rich seeing these shitposters try to turn this into an argument when TDKR Superman was a fucking Reagan puppet and nothing more. You can atleast argue for why Batman goes south eventually. He's just a man who has endured the loss of close friends and family. Superman is more than that. He is the light that guides the rest. Which is exactly why BvS puts him in his rightful place.

>>84325889
that's either a shitty read on the DCEU or a valid read of some comic arcs that the DCEU has vaguely resembled.

as the nothing in the DCEU indicates clark wants to be a quiet farm boy and utterly fails to establish a compelling reason for batman gettin his murder on

>>84315827
If you're over the age of fifteen, it's not the movie for you.

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I'm about to red pill you pieces of shit once and for all.

Canon Batman does not kill, so from a die-hard comic reader perspective Batfleck goes against much of what Batman stands for when comparing the two. Yes Batman killed people when the comics cost a nickel and the stories were written on speakeasy napkins, but the modern canon of Batman has nixed much of that history (reshaping those Batmen into seperate universes) and reshaped and rebranded Batman for more than half a century, turning him from vengeance driven killer to an idealogue of hope, justice, and human idealist perfection. He stands for something, and the idea that he can stop another Joe Chill from happening rather than stomping the next Joe Chill out and budding another few killers is so pertinent and so profound that people fail to realize Batman goes beyond cool gadgets and beat em up scenarios. Look at pic related and tell me than even a glimmer of the heart of that panel made it into the DCeU movies.

Yes Batfleck is cool, he's jacked, and Ben Affleck looks right out of the comics. But he's not Batman, just like Nolans Batman wasn't Batman. They're Elseworlds Tales, what if scenarios, of the many Batmen that exist across the multiverse of DC. And just to cover every base, there's literally nothing wrong from a story telling perspective to have Batman kill when it has a lore/in-universe explanation. It's just not canon, and while even the most true to form adaptations like Batman Long Halloween or Batman Noel aren't technically canon, they ring true because the values and ideals behind the mythos of the character are there.

Batfleck fans like the flashy action, Ben in the suit, etc. Tonally the character is all over the place, going from killer to quipper in the span of one movie, but it looks cool so people will love it. Saying that die hard Batman fans HAVE TO LOVE this interpretation is retarded. Theres nothing wrong with different interpretations, but not all interpretations are good.

>>84326163
I see you're making the classic mistake of putting the DCEU in the context of comic continuity rather than expecting it to stand on it's own, without outside support.

A mistake that is easy to make, as without the comics, the DCEU doesn't stand on it's own at all. It relies completely and totally on outside continuity elements in order to have a functional narrative structure at all. One almost can't help but fill in the gaps with well established themes and elements that are not actually present or even hinted at in the DCEU.

>>84326209
>Canon Batman does not kill
Classic Batman did. Then he stopped because they were running out of villains for the comics.

Cinema Batman has always killed.

In no way does BvS glorify his killings, tge opposite is true.

There. Your post debunked in four sentences.

>>84326293
>as without the comics, the DCEU doesn't stand on it's own at all.
That is complete bullshit. DCEU works just fine without the comics.

Now you're reversing your argument by the way. I guess whatever to keep up this parade.

>>84326386
what, in the DCEU, makes clark decide to try to be superman?

>>84326326
Classic Batman is not canon. Modern Batman may as well be a totally new character. And even then, Classic bats never killed the big villains like the Joker.

Point 1 debunked.

Cinema Batman is not Canon Batman. See my point about then being Elseworlds Tales. You need to read better.

Point 2 debunked.

No one said anything about glorifying the killing, in fact I defended it. You're double retarded. Read my post again.

>>84315827
No. I'm a comic book reader and so are my friends and we all thought it was a below average flick. One of my friends even loved MoS and thought this movie wasn't that good.

>>84326425
As seen from early childhood, Clark possesses a strong sense of wanting to save people, even if it may end up hurting him.

>>84326326
Is this the new thing to do? Just spew something that has nothing to do with what was said and act like you won an argument? Jesus Christ

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>>84315827
devoted comic reader for 40+yrs

BvS is not TDKR bad but it is bad. very bad

I don't hate/prefer either co.
just want good capekino
DC warriors seem more unhinged and whiny. why?

>>84326440
So your argument isn't about Batfleck then is it? It's about Cinema Batman as whole. Why you chose to attack BvS Batman, the ONLY Batman film where his killings are negatively portrayed says something very revealing about you, not Snyder. I think it's cute you're still playing the concerned fan card when you keep ousting yourself with very selective reasoning and sheer ignorance and self-imposed stupidity.

>>84326605
Huge Marvel fan here.

MCU is an insult towards life and its false flagging fanboys doubly so.

>>84326487
And where did that come from?

>>84326595
It's ok you'll have a better shitpost tomorrow I'm sure.

>>84326606
Look at the OP picture you fucking mongoloid. And then read my argument again. People who say COMIC FANS LOVE THIS are lumping people together wrongly. Batfleck is nothing like comic Batman outside of the suit. Nowhere did I say that was a bad thing, just that I don't fully agree when people say its true to the CANON comics.

You totally outed yourself as a butthurt Snyder fanboy. All I was saying was that theres nothing wrog with Elseworlds Batmen, but not all adaptations are sterling silver. It's a fact that this Batman is incredibly tonally uneven.

Cry more please

>>84326689
Where does good come from?

>>84326755
proper upbringing

>>84326801
oh fuck you. sanctimonious little shit.

>>84326715
Yeah because you were definitely leaking this much butthurt shit from the Nolan/Burton films where he's far worse. Again you sad fucks keep up this charade of actually caring but when tested your hypocrisy is revealed.

Now fuck off and go cry in the corner about Burton Batman strapping bombs on people next time you pathetic faggot.

>>84326801
And where does their good come from?

>>84326846
Your gracious concession is noted.

>>84326920
see >>84326801

>>84326935
my foot in your ass is graciously noted in my mind to make me feel better about you being allowed to express your awful opinions.

>>84326976
Good upbringing merely explains a continuation of good, not its start.

So I ask again, where does good start?

>>84327057
Morality is relative

you're also proving the point that nothing in the DCEU establishes any sort of reason for clark to try to be superman.

>>84326857
I still don't think you are understanding where I'm coming from. I actually mentioned Nolanbats being nothing like Batman right alongside Batfleck. And then defended both of them as interpretations. You seem butt flustered so let me tl;dr it for you you fucking sperglord.

The OP picture said if you like the comics you'll love the movie. This is not true, because the movie is an Elseworlds scenario where Batman is nothing like Batman. Yes you can love both the comics and the movie, but saying you're not a real fan if you dont like the most current movie is fucking retarded, and people like you propogate it by half reading arguments and then spewing vitriol.

The problems with the dceu have next to nothing to do with Batmans killing. Shitty writing and directing and pandering to executives have more of a role to play in that.

Again, Batman killing is fine because its an interpretation. But not all interpretations are good. Burton Batman = fun, Batfleck = tonally uneven mess

I would love for some other anon to step in here and tell me where I'm going wrong

>>84327092
>Morality is relative
yeah, if you're a fucking psycho

>>84327048
we kinda ventured into the realm of fact with this exchange about the source of good.

>>84327116
>anyone who doesn't agree with my arbitrarily defined, by my own admission, concepts of good and bad is psychotic

thanks for proving my point

>>84327092
Now you're changing subject. I didn't ask you if good exists, I asked you where does good come from. Your first reply was parents which isn't its start. Your second isn't an answer. And your third?

Where does good start?

>>84327177
>i don't understand what it means to be good or kind, therefore i will try to undermine people who understand this on a basic level

you're not making a point, you're not even making sense.

>>84323086
>sacrifice himself for the same humans that hate him
dude jesus lmao

>>84327192
"good" starts in an individual's mind from whatever source originally defines it

Universally, it doesn't exist, as morality is relative and entirely a creation of humanity to rationalize it's actions.

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>DUDE MARTHA
Its your prerogative to like/dislike movies, but anyone unironically citing the Martha scene as some sort of magical 'best friends' scene just because the name was said...

You belong in North Korea sucking off Jung Un while he watches teletubies.

>>84327236
Define good, objectively.

You can't

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Sony, Columbia, Disney Marvel is shit.
DCEU except WW is shit.

Fox Marvel Xmen is best, fuck the rest.

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>>84326639
Marvel has a few good films. I'll give you that. DC too.

I just can't understand the seething hate from one side or another. Why wouldn't you want DC or Marvel to make better movies?

The cape-hate crowd really come of as wanna-be tough guys with fawkes mask in closet. The DC ones are worse.

I have loved DC comics for a very long time (other than nu52 shit) but that doesn't make me automatically like the movies.

Translate a DC cartoon EXACTLY into live action and watch DC dominate the movies. Maybe the Marvel haters will then become the more annoying ones.

>>84327252
>"good" starts in an individual's mind from whatever source originally defines it
Yes precisely. And thus we can agree that good starts in Clark's mind. That's where good is made. From within. Independent and even because of outside evil.

>>84316082
MOMS
GONNA
FREAK

>>84327289
good is considering others before you act.

>>84327346
Nice try, but, empathy is learned/taught, and the snyder kents failed completely at this.

You might've had a better argument if you tried to go the route that the fictional kryptonians, as defined by the snyderverse, have strong behavioral predispositions that go all the way to the genetic level and clark being the natural birth between two extremely empathetic people became the source of his desire to help others. But the fact he lets pa kent's idiotic ideas govern his behavior so long throw a wrench in this theory as well.

>>84327377
this rational can be used to justify literally any act

>>84327447
So you're saying that kid Clark saving those kids on the bus didn't happen? I'm pretty sure I saw it happen. Didn't you? Is that not demonstrating his good?

>>84327488
not if you have empathy
>>84327447
>empathy is learned/taught
no it's not. the more people you meet in life the more you'll realize this.

>>84327522
I see you've already forgotten what this exchange is about (or didn't bother to go back up the reply chain).

I'm asking where that came from. As the DCEU fails to define a source for clark's behavior.

>>84327562
I see you are illiterate. I said it came from within Clark. That's where good starts. Within us. Good upbringing continues it but it STARTS from within. This is something you for some reason cannot comprehend. If all good or evil were simply a matter of externals, nothing in this world would change. It would be a constant. Clark IS that change.

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>>84327551
>he thinks empathy is intrinsic

Just about the whole of human history disproves this childish assertion.

>>84327769
Explain autism using only external factors.

>>84327708
>good starts within people
>its continued by good upbringing

... negro this is so backwards its not even funny anymore.

Seriously, you were given an out, just claim kryptonians write empathy to the genetic level and bow out. The problem is, of course, the DCEU fails to really establish this.

>>84327769
Empathy is intrinsic, you have it backwards. Religion/ideology has historically conditioned people to disregard empathy and devalue lives. Learn some evolutionary psychology you ignorant fucktard.

>>84327845
No YOU have it backwards you idiot. If good doesn't arise from within man then there can be no good to pass on. It has to start somewhere.

>>84327846
evolutionary psychology is a series of backwards after-the-fact rationalizations for theoretical behavior based in contemporary values.

The idea you take evolutionary psychology seriously would explain why you have a completely backwards interpretation of the source of good/empathy.

>>84327769
look, you either have the capacity for it or you don't, then your experiences shape you further, this is life. i'm sure you've googled all sorts of philosophies to back up your personal feelings, that's what people do, they seek out what makes sense to them. you're not special.

i can't count how many people i know who wouldn't fit into your idea of what makes a human being, so i can't even argue with you, you're just wrong.

>>84321963
>Harvey Dent

Literally the ENTIRE MOVIE is about that Batman doesn't want to cross the line, and kill the Joker, even when he has multiply chances. In the minute he thought he won, he was able to save Gotham without blood on his hands, he gets the call from Gordon as the final joke from the Joker, and he is forced to kill Dent, the "white knight", who some weeks ago was one of the best people in the city

The kill marks an important point in the story, its the final twist, the climax of the movie

Batman doesn't just slaughter hanchmen because it looks cool

>>84327948
You realize the hypocrisy in shifting to personal attacks in your failure to prove empathy isn't an intrinsic facet of humanity, right?

>>84328016
what the fuck are you talking about

>>84327908
"good" as it is currently defined started with reasoned introspection and is passed on to children by proper parenting.

Which means it was entirely the responsibility of the kents to recognize the good clark could do in the world and pass on to him the desire to be the best he could be. Because children are not capable of reasoned introspection.

let's all just enjoy some great trailers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6DJcgm3wNY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WWzgGyAH6Y

>>84320759
"Do you ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?"

>>84316013
The last DC comics I read were a four part Flash series. None of it made any sense. It was total dream logic and cuts between one scene of stylized action and another.

>>84328099
>Because children are not capable of reasoned introspection.
Exactly, which is why Jonathan didn't want Clark using his powers. He wanted to give him the CHANCE of a normal life if he would want it. Therefore preserve his normal life until he can reach a mature age where he can make his own rational decision out of his OWN free will, as first desired by Jor-El then passing unto Jonathan. The choice of becoming Superman must be Clark's. No one elses. And it should preferrably occur at an adult age where he can make a rational decision, not as a kid.

after i watched that movie, my IQ legit rose two points
unreal
>tfw to smart to enjoy non DC capeshit

>>84328237
and that makes pa kent a moron because in order to think clark could have a normal life, he'd have to completely ignore the fact hes a literal god.

but seriously, trying to argue pa kent did anything right at any point in the DCEU is utterly ridiculous. Especially when you have a perfect out, clark is genetically predisposed by the genetic wizardry of the kryptonians to be superman.

>>84327922
Evolutionary psychology is merely an acknowledgement that the brain evolved along with every other biological thing on this planet, you dimwitted fuck. It is the only legitimate way to explain fundamental human behavior, until neuroscience and technology develop to the point of quantifying and predicting all behavior.

>>84328405
that's your opinion.

>>84327922
This isn't even an argument, it's an objective scientific fact that empathy is intrinsic. Humans are hard-wired to identify with the pain of others, so are other non-human animals.

>>84315827
This is more correct:
If you're a casual comic fan, it's a fine movie.

If you're a hardcore comic book fan, they're unbelievably disappointing.

If you're a super fanboy of everything DC, then it's the best movies ever made.

If you're critical of movies in general, there's too much going wrong in these movies for you to enjoy them.

>>84328197
Flash hasn't been good for 15 years

>>84328546
This
>painful truth triggers DC rebuttles

>>84328437
evolutionary psychology is a load of absolute unfalsifiable bullshit that only absolute idiots take as anything other than pure comedy.

but you're defending the DCEU, so ipso facto.

>>84328501
would you say empathy is natural in dogs?

>>84327846
Empathy and violence are BOTH intrinsic. Just look at the behavior of any hominim species. Emotionally we aren't much different. We just have a large prefrontal cortex that can subordinate emotional impulses to a degree.

The key you're missing is that all social species have two sets of behaviors: one for ingroups and another for outgroups. Chimps troops will make total war on rival groups, tear them apart, and eat them. But between each other the winning group will altruistically share the meat. Even the "peaceful" bonobos have recently been observed doing this.

No ideology or religion conditioned lower primates to behave this way. They don't even have language.

Humans behave much the same. Warriors and soldiers will adore and protect their families, and swear fealty to a beloved leader. And out of love for their own people they will savagely slaughter others.

I think MOS Pa Kent was fucking great. He's a true farm hand teaching his son teaching his son to value hard work and protect himself, because Clark was never going to protect himself unless his parents taught him the way the world was. He would just use his powers to save everyone he could without considering the consequences to himself.

The Jonathan sacrificed himself to protect his son from revealing his powers, his last gift to his son. Teaching him when to let go and when to stand up for what's right. He had to be ready and he wasn't yet but Martha got him there.

I love Man of Steel.

>>84328679
Empathy in dogs has been selected for through millennia of human-driven breeding. If you don't exclude human behavior from nature, then yes.

>>84328799
Wow. You actually walked into it.

The idea that empathy is intrinsic in dogs has been proven false. Completely and totally.

Empathy is entirely a learned behavior in dogs. They learn it as puppies. As they'll play-bite each other, and if they bite too hard, the yelping will hurt the ears of the biting dog, teaching it to not bite too hard. Puppies that are separated from their litter too early never learn how to not bite too hard and will always bite with full force.

>>84316013
>Adulthood is
Adultnood is not whining about kids movies on the intranettes m8.

Doesn't matter how old you are, if you're defending poorly produced capeshit schlock, you're not a fucking adult.

>>84328644

Evolutionary psychology is fascinating and useful, even if not entirely scientific due to the lack of hard evidence. Then again, to understand this you have to see the human mind as an organ, not magical fairy dust as is the case with double digit IQ religious mongs.

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>>84328780

>>84328914
evolutionary psychology is a trap for liberal arts and sociology majors who can't think in terms not defined by contemporary values.

Also teenagers. Teenagers are extremely susceptible to the simplistic and easily digested "truths" of evolutionary psychology.

>>84328961
anon I love it.

>>84328976
>the human mind evolved along with the human body

Is this statement controversial to you? If not, then you accept the usefulness of evolutionary psychology. It explains diseases like depression and anxiety, explains why neurotic people exist (who would have been superior survivors around the time humans mostly stopped evolving biologically), it explains why we have empathy, and countless other behaviors and tendencies. A person who understands evolutionary psychology will have greater understanding of the inner workings of their own mind. Many mental disorders are a result of a disconnect between modern civilization and the civilization (or lack thereof) that humans evolved to exist in. Recognizing the merits of evolutionary psychology is a matter of very simple logic. Sorry for your brain damage.

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>>84315827
BVS IS A BAD MOVIE M8

YOU'RE NOT A "COMIC BOOK READER" IF YOU LIKE IT. YOU'RE FUCKING RETARDED.

YOU'RE NOT TOO SMART. YOU DIDN'T SOMEHOW "GET IT" MORE THAN THE REST OF THE AUDIENCE THAT HAD THE IDIOT SUBTEXT SPELLED OUT TO THEM AUTISTICALLY.

YOU'RE NOT SPECIAL.

YOU'RE A FUCKING CHILD THAT DEFENDS BAD ENTERTAINMENT.

>>84329109
assimilated mouth piece

>>84329131
I love it anon.

>>84329183
What's the relationship between evolutionary psychology and politics, you alt right chimp? You /pol/ shitposters are truly the scum of the fucking earth.

>>84328890
Who taught them to play bite each other? Who taught them to yelp when in pain?

You can separate learning behaviors from biological development only through carefully controlled experiment. Or philosophically through sophistry.

Also, there's a distinction between empathy other canines and empathy for humans. Wolves raised by people will never reach the level of apparent empathy for their owners that a beagle will. A greater capacity for empathy with humans is one of the primary traits we bred them for. We shaped their innate capacity for intro-species empathy into empathy for us as well.

You can argue that there is no innate nature to these animals all you like, but evidence does not bear this out. To take it to its extreme, try teaching a lizard to have empathy through play. Or a praying mantis.

gotcha argumentation doesn't become you, anon

>>84329109
human consciousness is an emergent function of the layering of multiple conflicting neurological systems upon one another. Depression, anxiety, neuroses, and empathy are all conditioned responses. Emotions are conditioned responses.

Just the concept of neuroplasticity (and the fact it is a proven phenomena) utterly annihilates every single tenant of psychology in general and makes evolutionary psychology look absolutely ridiculous.

Psychology was completely obsolete before evolutionary psychology was even dreamed up. As such evolutionary psychology is nothing but utterly laughable hogwash.

>>84329297
"intro-species" should be "intra-species"

>>84329297
You realize that entire post is meaningless as it does not require any sort of complex or even intentional action to prevent a puppy from learning empathy, right?

Another example is if the puppy is born deaf, it will never learn empathy.

You're also conflating complex behaviors (empathy) with instinctual pain responses.

>>84320478
>He said it before and now he's gone and said it again!

>>84315827
someone post that Mexican posting about BvS on his facebook

>>84329307
The predictive power of psychology and its ability to treat illness in peoples' minds proves otherwise. It's a stepping stone that will become obsolete once computer processors can quantify everything occurring in the brain, but until that point it has obviously proven its worth many times over.

>>84328976
There's a lot to evolutionary psychology, but you have to have a rational attitude towards it, coupled with in depth knowledge. Which if course you won't get from liberal arts types who are just EP rhetoric to make ideological points.

People can make any discipline look bad by making sophistic arguments with it. Just think if you judged quantum physics by every hippie that used it to support their mysticism.

Yes yes I know hard sciences have better quantifiability. But animal behavior is also quantifiable to a degree.

>>84329307
Neuroplasticity only goes so far. It is not an unbounded domain. You can't condition a human to track prey with utltraviolet light, or to fly to preferable aeries. You can't condition a human to have emotions far outside the scope of other humans they interact with.

To put it another way, you can put a watermellon in a box to make it grow into a cube. But you can't make it grow into an apple.

>>84329608
>>84329567
the problem with classical/evolutionary psychology comes from the attempt to quantify and predict behaviors without addressing any sort of physiological roots or causes. Not to mention treating behaviors that have been confirmed to have physiological roots/causes as entirely behavioral.

The fact it can predict some behavioral trajectories has more to do with the limitations of human biology rather than any sort of value inherent to the fields.

Not to mention the tendency of psychologists to ascribe as intrinsic any behavior that seems to be common and the absence of said behaviors as aberrant. Which it is better served to identify the causes of aberrant behavior and then use that knowledge to define causes of non-aberrant behavior.

>>84329803
Paging doctors Dunning and Kruger.

You're claiming neuroplasticity is not unbounded because of the bounds of non-neural physiology. This is practically a tautology.

>>84329608
Exactly, as long as you don't think "This behavior could possibly be explained by this bit of natural selection" means you're automatically right about any claim, it's a useful tool. I can't believe anyone would dismiss it entirely. There's something so satisfying and obviously logically consistent about exploring our behaviors through a lens of what purpose they originally evolved to fulfill.

Our pervasive, intense fear of insects is blatantly from a time when a spider bite would mean certain unavoidable death. Our fear of the dark even when we know our environment is safe, obviously a result of the fact that our minds evolved for an environment where darkness meant an opportunity for predators to approach unseen.

>>84329387
>it does not require any sort of complex or even intentional action to prevent a puppy from learning empathy, right?
That is exactly my point. They learn empathy, but the learning itself is innate, and not something beyond their intrinsic nature. Using the example of disabled animals to argue against the existence of a trait is disingenuous.

Let's use a human corollary to your argument. Infants must learn to walk. A person born without legs can never learn the behavior of walking. Would you use this to argue that bipedal locomotion is not an inherited trait of homo sapiens?

>>84329928
the problem is you're interpreting evolution backwards. Behaviors did not develop for an intended purpose. Behaviors developed, they served a purpose, and that purpose was either beneficial or detrimental. Attempting to rationalize depression as some sort of hunter-gatherer defense mechanism is total balderdash, as there's no evidence of depression before recorded history.

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>>84315827
Two grown ass men getting into a sissy schoolyard fight for "reasons?" Yeah, I don't think so.

Wonder Woman is better.

>>84329838
>without addressing any sort of physiological roots or causes.
Actual behavioral scientists don't ignore this.

>>84329915
But also because of the bounds of neural physiology. My example of ultraviolet-vision related behaviors was exclusively neural.

>>84330103
By better do you just mean prettier?

>>84330062
Behaviors developed through natural selection, like everything else. Natural selection more or less stopped occurring in humans at key points over the past several thousand years. Today, you're actually more likely to reproduce and pass on your genes if you're fat and stupid. If you actually believe no discrepancies would be created by the massive difference between our modern environment and the environments we were naturally selected to exist in, then I don't know what to tell you. If you actually believe that there's no wisdom to be gleaned from exploring that difference, then you must think the human mind is made of magical souls.

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>You know it's true what they say about little boys. Born with no natural inclination to share.

Batman and Superman BTFO! How will they ever recover?

>>84330017
You are, again, all over the place.

A proper corollary example would be the blind learning to walk without seeing others walk. Which they can, as the mind, the legs, and the inner ear are all that are necessary to learn to walk. Or the deaf learning to read without knowing what sounds are. Or even how to kind of speak, without being able to hear themselves or others.

The puppy scenario is a situation where the information necessary to learn empathy is either blocked (by naturally occurring disability) or removed by lack of contact with other puppies. And thus, said complex behavior is never learned.

As such, you remove the legs, a person will still learn ambulation with their hands/arms. As they still have the necessary faculties to figure out how to move around their areas. But if you remove the sense of balance granted by the inner ear, they'll never learn to walk, ever.

>>84330225
>My example of ultraviolet-vision related behaviors was exclusively neural.
>the eye is neural

Doctors Dunning and Kruger, code red. I repeat, code red.

>>84330290
>Natural selection more or less stopped occurring in humans at key points over the past several thousand years.
It never stopped. Behaviors are still selected for. It's just that the environmental pressures are radically different, and part of the novel feedback loop we call civilization.

For example, being fat, stupid, and r-selected is now incentivized by our "unnatural" environment.

The phrase "state of nature" and the word "natural" is so poorly defined that arguments made from it quickly descend into semantics.

>when a DCEU defender would rather argue from a weak position in a glorified nature vs nurture debate because he can't answer how the DCEU defines the source of clark's desire to be superman

>>84330491
You didn't have to bring it to semantics though because you knew exactly what I meant.

>>84330372
>eyes aren't neural tissue
Being a cunt doesn't make you right, and your projection is self-parody.

>>84330530
I was just thinking out loud about it.

>>84330556
I never like citing the dunning kruger effect because its too easy for people to try to project it outward.

But attempting to define the eyes as part of the brain is fundamentally idiotic in this case.

Yes, neuroplasticity is bound by the biology surrounding it. This practically means nothing.

>>84330605
The eyes are arguably as much a part of the brain as the brainstem, and they are absolutely neural.

You're also ignoring my statements about the bounded nature of human/canine/mamalian neurology. We can't just declare the dural sac the border between bounded biology and an unbounded potential. That's ideology.

Not everyone you disagree with is stupider than you. Try not insulting people every time it happens.

The challenge:
>>84326425

The response:
>two hours of a half-literate teen spewing cliffnotes on evolutionary psychology

The result:
>The DCEU does not define why clark decides to try to be superman

>>84330868
Because you're attempting to claim the static construction of the human eye as a limit on neuroplasticity. You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>84330929
I'm not claiming anything is static. Just that all organs and traits have biologically determined potentials and limits.

Again, insults don't lend your arguments any extra merit.

>>84316013
Childhood is watching Marvel
Adolescence is watching DC
Adulthood is not watching capeshit

>>84331056
There are times when saying "you have no idea what you're talking about" is not an insult, but a statement of fact.

This is one such time.

You're basically saying because the brain can't plastic it's way into cleaning poisons from the bloodstream, then neuroplasticity has bounds. This is completely and totally meaningless.

>>84331185
adulthood is not thinking in MAYMAYS

>>84315827
Accurate but I'd just add that if you're a film fan maybe it ain't for you.

>>84331284
No. I'm talking specifically about behaviors that our brains are set up for.

We both know this argument is about your desire to demonstrate that violence isn't innate to human biology or nature, and is entirely conditioned. So you're doing your level best to separate behavior from biology, and assuming neuroplasticity is an out for the claim that agression is an innate human trait.

But let's be honest with ourselves. Violence has been a potent evolutionary force since the inception of life. When it comes to our species, the historical, palentological, and primatological records bear this out.

It's my belief that arguments against violent behavior as an innate human trait are sophistry born of ideology. Your desperate defense of this idea, and your inability to argue for it without throwing rhetorical jabs, merely confirms my bias.