How did the fellowship not know that Moria was taken by orcs?

>>83875602
Gimli was in denial

Did you miss the multiple occasions on which Gandalf advised against going through Moria until all other options were exhausted?

It's not like news spread that fast around a medieval-ish continent.

>>83875602
News travels slowly and perhaps greedy dwarves found some treasure they kept to themselves

>>83875602
Shit was hitting the fan everywhere. Sadman coming back ninety years earlier was a go sign for everything 'dark' getting their murder on. It didn't matter if it was orcs or a daemon or kraken, Gandalf knew something was fucked with the mountain and didn't want to spend the time or energy on a symptom when he was trying to cure the disease.
Until he had to.

Did Gandalf know or did he just have a suspicion?

>>83875817
Had a suspicion

>>83875637

Surely the pass of Caradhras wasn't the only other option available to them other than Moria. I would have thought there would be many more easy passes across the Misty Mountains.

>>83875890
Caradhras was one of the only ways of the mountains and at the time they were being chased by wolves and spies of Saruman. They didn't have time to take another route.

The better question is that why wasn't Moria full of poop? There were dwarves living there for centuries and the obviously had to hide their poo somewhere and the orcs just probably pooped all over the place.

>>83875637
I surely didn't miss it. But suspicion is one thing, knowing is something else. The dwarves knew it was plenty of orcs in the mountains. It would be logical to go on a reconnaissance mission or something at least when they don't hear anything from Moria. Saruman knew (perhaps because of the palantir).

>>83875968
Dwarves probably built a sewage system, and there are enough giant empty holes to shit into. Also, Lotr isnt game of thrones so taxation and pooping isnt mentioned in detail

Why did they even both taking the ring to Mordor? Couldn't they just have sent someone with a bucket to collect some lava then take it back and pour it on the ring?

Seems pretty obvious to me and wasn't Gandalf supposed to be a fucking genius or something?

>>83875968
Lel'd. Anyways, dwarves were brilliant engineers. They probably had a system.

>>83875637
Gandalf was afraid of the Balrog that's why he didn't want to go through Moria.

>>83875640
Fuck you. Gondor called for aid and Rohan knew in an hour.

>>83876038
>a bucket with magma
Fucking genious man. Was Tolkien a fraud all along?

>>83876038
Someone would still have to go to Mordor to fetch the lava in a mithril bucket or something. And how would they heat it up later after it turned back to stone? Furthermore its probably more the location than the lava itself that enables the ring to be destroyed.

>>83875775
>Sadman

>>83875968
>giant chasms
they were really giant toilets built by the dwarfs

>>83875602
they knew it was taken, but they also knew moria was much bigger than the force of orcs that took it, and despite fast orc reproduction its unlikely the emptiness of moria could support a huge orc army that is able to monitor every single part of the dark underground at all times. Plus secret entrance the orcs didnt know about etc.

>>83876054
I dont think he knew about the Balrog specifically, or if he did he had probably forgotten long ago.

>>83876002
Gandalf didn't consider the possibility of having to travel through Moria until they were in Rivendell and even then they were set on either travelling over Caradhras or through the gap of Rohan. They only ruled out the option of the Gap of Rohan well into their journey when they realised Saruman was aware of them. They didn't have time to recon Moria and didn't think it would be necessary.

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>>83876016
this. see the sitting dwarf skeleton in this image? he was taking a shit when he got killed. the bucket was probably filled with rocks to wipe his ass with, because dwarves are tough.

>>83876110
>Someone would still have to go to Mordor to fetch the lava in a mithril bucket or something.
Yes and? Send glorfindel for crying out loud

>And how would they heat it up later after it turned back to stone?
With a furnace

>Furthermore its probably more the location than the lava itself that enables the ring to be destroyed.
Mt. Doom is connected to saurons will but Its the heat that unmade the ring

>>83876065
Because they had an immensely expensive system that was only able to deliver one and only one piece of information?

>>83876175
I believe it. It clearly wasnt a well since there was no water.

>>83875602
gandalf was just pretending to be a wizard

>>83876065
>in an hour
The montage implied it took over 24 hours

>>83876065
Also a set of beacons can't send information in any detail at all.

>>83876209
He did some magic against the goblin king in Hobbit, and I believe he cast a rune of protection or something against the balrog in Moria, but I think thats literally it except for meme magic.

>>83876199
>>And how would they heat it up later after it turned back to stone?
>With a furnace
>>Furthermore its probably more the location than the lava itself that enables the ring to be destroyed.
>Mt. Doom is connected to saurons will but Its the heat that unmade the ring

If the heat unmade the ring, and its only that hot inside mt doom, reheating solidified lava won't magically make it reach the same temp you dummy

>>83876142
Well in the movie Saruman says

>You know what they awoke in the darkness of Khazad-dûm, Shadow and Flame!

>>83876065
I always think about those guys sitting on top of the mountians in the montage. Its implied its never been ised for generations. Like was it a ceremonial position to sit in a tiny hut on top of the mountains and wait to see if you saw a fire on some of the other mountians? Or like did they exile criminals for the position? This whole momtage really made me think and sometimes I still think about it. Maybe it was like a trip all new soldiers have to take for a week or something

>>83876175
Haha, Tanja. I really, really like this image. Mind if I save it?

>>83876282
moria is so wide and deep, there's no way gandalf could've known where the balrog would be

>>83876235

No it didn't. It's just what it was going over different timezones.

>>83876318
but of course. no idea who tanja is, but it's what i got when i googled "moria well"

>>83876342
"No!"

What was Moria's tax policy?
Why was everybody fine with a random ranger becoming king?
Why didn't they just give the ring to the elves who were leaving middle earth?

>>83876265

It's not the only place where lava is that hot. It's the only volcano within walking distance.

>won't magically make it it reach the same temp

Yeah, but it will scientifically make it reach the same temp.

>>83876416
>applying science to tolkien fantasy universe

bruh, don't be this dumb

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>>83876416
how does your "science" explain THIS

>>83875602
They had a good idea that it had, that's why they only went through as last resort.
What they didn't know about was the Balrog.

>>83876411

>What was Moria's tax policy?
Feudal

>Why was everybody fine with a random ranger becoming king?
They werent but they came around when he proved himself

>Why didn't they just give the ring to the elves who were leaving middle earth?
The valar would never allow the ring to reach their shores

>>83876110
>>83876265
>>83876445
Stop replying to obvious bait

>>83876471

Everything on the left is made up by the Japanese and we all know they're a really small species. So the thing on the right isn't really that big, it just looks big by comparison.

>>83876282
The movie is wrong.

>>83876489
How did he prove himself? As far as we know we never see Aragorn govern anything.
Also, what if they just put the ring in a box, gave the box to some elf without telling him what's inside?

>>83876507
Nah Ill keep doing it. Its fun to speculate even if its joke posts.

>>83875890
You'd have thought there'd be other mountain passes in this fictional range created by an author for a fantasy novel? You retarded fucking sperg.

>>83876549
Because destroying the ring was the only way to stop Sauron. Hiding it would delay him from finding it for however many years, but it's academic if he's conquered all of Middle Earth in the meantime.

>>83876411
Why does this meme exsist? Why do people give Martin shit for having a fully thought/fleshed out world?

>>83876312
I imagine many of them probably had houses built their and a family. Or they were already located near villages

>>83875637
This. Gandalf openly said no to going through moria but saruman gave them no other option. They were being hunted remember

>>83876471
BIG BLACK DRAGON

>>83876411
>hide ring
>Men get wiped the fuck out as Sauron conquers middle earth

>>83875602
Someone should have noticed that the dwarves weren't paying their taxes and contributing to the economy, Tolkien is a hack.

>>83876589
Because it isn't that well fleshed out or detailed. Politics in ASOIAF are not particularly deeply explained at all, in particular tax policy.

>>83875890
There was, they could have gone through High Pass, where Bilbo and the Dwarves went and got caught in Goblin Town. You can understand why Gandalf would be reluctant to make that same mistake twice.

>>83876471
How would a dragon that size find enough food to sustain itself?

>>83876312

It was probaby like "that job" that gets thown on the lap of the new guy or that other guy nobody wants around.

>>83876589
Their worlds are based on two enturely different contrasts. Tolkien brings you away from reality and into fantasy while GRRM tries to tie reality with fantasy.

>>83876680
>implying dragons eat

That wouldnt be very cost effective. Morgoth probably used magic to make them subsist solely on their massive ego.

>>83876589
Martin never goes into detail about anyone's tax policies in Game of Thrones, and he shouldn't, because it's completely fucking pointless to do so. He also shows a pretty fundamental understanding of LOTR as a fantasy epic that serves as a mythology rather than a gritty realistic pseudo-medieval world. He also seems to think moral ambiguity is the be-all and end-all of writing.

>>83876411
>random ranger
Aragorn is a distant relative of elrond, the elves knew that Gondor needed a king once more. Aragorn himself was the only person who didn't want him to be king

>>83876696
>enturely different contrasts
Two contrasting fantasy worlds*

>>83876411
Aragorn was the heir of Gondor.

>>83876712
>i'm hungry, better go suck myself off

kek

not sure how else dragons survive sleeping on giant piles of treasure for hundreds or thousands of years

>any plot hole or awkward question you can ask about LOTR
>Dude it's magic lmao

Tolkein was a hack

>>83876752
just like bears in winter

>>83876772
You're pretty stupid

>>83875890
the misty mountains are cock full of gobbos and other orc scum

>>83875968
Dwarves are small. Probrably not much build up over time.

The real quesion is what did the elves do? Never seen an elf outhouse. Did they just shit off the side of their tree forts like ewaks?

>>83876167
But that was what? A matter of days?

Morria looked like it was taken MONTHS ago. Was there absolutely no trade in or out of one of the dwarves major cities? How did no one in any of the kingdoms represented in Riverdale know?

How the fuck did Gollum get into Moria after the entrance had been collapsed. Or had he just been waiting inside already?


On a side note, this is the only mistake i've ever found Tolkien to have made: On the Doors of Durin it uses the name Moria. Moria was only ever called that after it fell into darkness. It was derogative (it meant Black Chasm.) and would not have been used as an official title


Wtf tolkien

>>83876990
Moria was taken by the orcs for a couple hundred years before balin tried to reclaim it, and the balrog was alone in moria for nearly 500 years before that.

everyone knew the orcs occupied it, but it was still possible to maybe get through because it what was said here>>83876133

>>83876990
All kingdoms during the lotr time are past theit glory days and have no real infrastructure. They are all fallen roman empires.

>>83876990
>Morria looked like it was taken MONTHS ago

It looked like it was taken DECADES before. There were skeletons and everything.

>>83876990
>A matter of days?
No, a matter of weeks if not months. Moria is unfathomably huge and very few people would be able to navigate through it without being lost. No one has set foot inside for years. It also takes about three weeks to get there from Rivendell.
>Was there absolutely no trade in or out of one of the dwarves major cities?
Obviously not from Moria. Rivendell didn't need trade with dwarves and Moria was in the middle of nowhere anyway.
>How did no one in any of the kingdoms represented in Riverdale know?
Because the dwarves present at the council of Elrond came from the Lonely Mountain.

>>83876489
>The valar would never allow the ring to reach their shores
So then let the Valar destroy it if they are that powerful

>>83877024
if you read the mangas you would've known that gollum mastered teleportation by the time they came to moria

>>83877248
Did he learn that from Ramsay's dogs?

>>83877024
Gandalf was clearly translating for the benefit of the non-Dwarf speakers in the party. It would be like the convention of calling Bayern 'Bavaria' in English.

>>83876990
Moria was reoccupied by Balin's expedition, but by no means was it reclaimed. It was still in a highly contested state and in the book it said the Dwarves ceased trading with nearby kingdoms centuries ago.

>>83877235
>sinking a ship is equitable to destroying the one ring

lol

>>83877219
>came from the Lonely Mountain
Wtf? Smaug is there...

>>83877024
Gandalf translated it. Tolkien also spent years fixing mistakes and changing details in his works.

>>83876990
moria fell in TA 1980
gandalf visited it in TA 2850 or so (870 years later)
balin tried to reclaim it in TA 2989 (1009 years later)
they all died in TA 2994 (1014 years later)
the fellowship entered moria in TA 3018 (1038 years later)

>>83877269
>Moria was reoccupied by Balin's expedition, but by no means was it reclaimed.

Gimli spoke as if they had an elaborate kingdom there, not just a military outpost.

>>83877235
The Valar couldn't intervene

>>83877332
hackson spoke

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>>83877304

>>83877268
yeah same universe

>>83877332
Gimli was clearly talking out of his ass. He'd never even been there.

>>83877269
>>83877313
But in The Fellowship Of The Ring there is a drawing by Tolkien of the doors of Durin.
The text on them is in Sindarin and if you transcribe it to latin letters you get:

"Ennyn Durin Aran Moria. Pedo Mellon a Minno. Im Narvi hain echant. Celebrimbor o Eregion teithant i thiw hin."

Clearly the word Moria is there.

wtf hackien....

>>83877332
He was bullshitting because he's a proud motherfucker and also that line isn't in the books. It's like how Americans will talk about how amazing New York or LA is, even though they're Midwesterners who have never been anywhere near it.

>>83877403
He wouldn't talk out of his ass in a situation like this.

>>83877323
the fellowship entered moria in TA 3018 (1038 years later)

38 you mean

>>83877427
>It's like how Americans will talk about how amazing New York or LA is, even though they're Midwesterners who have never been anywhere near it.

Lol do Amerifats actually do that?

>>83877433

He spends the entire trilogy talking out his ass.

>>83877466
Yeah go to /int/ and start a shitposting war about world's greatest cities. Every country does it, but Americans are more likely to have never visited the cities they boast about (not many English people have never visited London, but a majority of Americans have never been to DC).

>>83877425
He was talking about the greatest shitposters on /tv/, as you can see in "Pedo" and "Moria" (blacked chasm).

>>83877024
>Moria was only ever called that after it fell into darkness
Source? I was under the impression that the city was always known as Moria.

>>83876312
I figured it was like lighthouse keepers without having to keep the light on. The more dangerous parts probably had military squads watching it, while the safer ones had some dude with his family just getting paid in food to keep a look out. Beats farming.

>>83877425
>"The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria. Speak friend and enter. I Narvi made them. Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs."
>implying that wasn't celebrimchad trollind the dwarves

Who would win in a fight between a Balrog and a Dragon?

>>83877433
He did though

>>83876471
how can other dragons even compete?

>>83877024
The Dwarves only started calling it Moria when it fell but that doesn't mean the elves never called it Moria before that. In fact, that's probably where the word Moria from, since it's a Sindarin word.

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>>83877332
Gimli is basically this little fucker, always showing off about how great Dwarves are, except for that one time where he was amazed about that cave.

>>83877527
"After millennia as one of the richest cities in Middle-earth, Khazad-dûm stood dark and empty, but for the brooding menace the Dwarves had released. In that time it was given a new name, Moria, the Black Pit. "

It was known as Khazad-dûm or Dwarrowdelf
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Moria

Who would win in a fight, 100 Brock Lesners or Balrog?

>>83877548
>celebrimchad
is that the same celebrim"chad" that got cucked by sauron, who betrayed his friends and who's body was used as a banner by the orcs?

>>83877659
>>83877527
>"The name Moria means "Black Chasm" and was a derogatory description of the place which the Dwarves did not like, and was given after Durin's Bane took over the city in the Third Age. It is therefore a mystery why that name appears on an inscription made in the Second Age, and made in consent with the Dwarves. "

>>83877694
he...had a hard life...

>dug too deep and release d balrog

how does that happen

>>83877745
Never dig straight down.

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>>83877665
>>83877700
Here's a decent explanation

>>83877759
yea but where did he come from

7

>>83877745
The Balrogs are Australians

>>83876549
Because to the Gondorans Aragorn went out on a suicide mission to save them when they themselves gave into their fear and terror. Then he came back to tell the tale.

And it was his divine writ.

so what did aragorn do with the baby orcs?

>>83877786
the inner earth

>>83877786
After the war of the wrath the surviving Balrogs went underground and chilled for a few thousand years

>>83877663
Whose the tits on the right?

>>83877745
IIRC in teh earlier eras there were great wars and balrogs are some of the survivors of the wars that shook the earth and caused tectonic shifts that trapped the balrogs under the earth.

>>83877824
he did what had to be done to secure the existence of his people and a future for gondorian children
eru wills it

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>>83877797
WHOA...

So the Lotr world is basically based a lot on norse mithology right? all that stuff about the world being on top of a tree and all

because when gandalf falls down the hole with the balrog and then he falls into a bigger role and ends up in a mountain, he basically fell down to another world in the tree right?

>>83877915
No the balrog ran away and hid as deep down as he could because he was scared shitless of the wrath of the gods.

The cataclysm came after

>>83877984
he fell to the bottom of a gigantic staircase and climb-fought his way back up with durin's bane

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>>83877984

>>83876696
GRRM is very fat

>>83876822
Goblins and Orcs are the same thing in the books. Sort of.

>>83877984
In norse mythology if you live a honorable life, and die a honorable death, you might get chosen for reincarnation.
So a valkyr carries your soul to valhalla, where you are sent back to the world of living in a different body and wiped memory.

>>83877984
No
>We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin's folk, Gimli son of Gloin. Far, far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day. In that despair my enemy was my only hope, and I pursued him, clutching at his heel. Thus he brought me back at last to the secret ways of Khazad-dum: too well he knew them all. Ever up now we went, until we came to the Endless Stair.'
'Long has that been lost,' said Gimli. 'Many have said that it was never made save in legend, but others say that it was destroyed.'
'It was made, and it had not been destroyed,' said Gandalf. 'From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak it climbed, ascending in unbroken spiral in many thousand steps, until it issued at last in Durin's Tower carved in the living rock of Zirak-zigil, the pinnacle of the Silvertine.
'There upon Celebdil was a lonely window in the snow, and before it lay a narrow space, a dizzy eyrie above the mists of the world. The sun shone fiercely there, but all below was wrapped in cloud. Out he sprang, and even as I came behind, he burst into new flame.

>>83878066
no they're not how many fucking times do we need to go through this

orcs are biggers, goblins smaller, there are several orc races they're not the same shit

>>83878070
No you are sent to valhalla were you are allowed to fight and die forever, while partying in the evenings. No reincarnation.

>>83876680
It's probably stuffed full of fissioning uranium

>>83878110
They are the same thing anon. Don't be a retard

>>83878081
Wait, someone claimed gandalf/balrog fought for 7 days and nights while climbing the stair but theres no mention of it here

>>83878142
RACE IS ONLY SKIN DEEP

>>83878110
You know you could just google this and realise how wrong you are in about twenty seconds, right?

>>83877342
Why? Why couldnt their god dude just smack Sauron's ass and un-create Morgoth?

>>83878110
You're confusing black uruks/ uruk hais with orcs

>>83878142
>>83878165
>hurrrr just google it dude
>youll get those epiccc reddit replies xD

fuck off goblin retard

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>>83878164
AMEN

>>83878186
uruks are orcs you fucking idiot

>>83878161
The appendices lists the dates of the events and suggests Gandalf fought the Balrog for ten days

>>83876587
They could have the elves drop it into the middle of the ocean. How would he get it then?

>>83878164
>>83878190
>>83878110
>Orc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places [in The Hobbit] but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds). Goblins are what Tolkien called the Orcs that Thorin and Company encountered in the book The Hobbit.

>>83876661
Taxes are collected in the spring. It was clearly winter/snowing at the time.

>>83878232
the ring has a way to influence things around it,
it would have probably been eaten by some fish that would then mysteriously happen to get caught by an orc fisherman

>>83877864
Tisha Swornheart.

>>83878259
Oh look, it's the /pol/fag again

are you gonna go on another autism spree about how orcs are not elves at all and there's only one orc race?

>>83876520
>the liberty statue was made by the japanese
american education

>>83878168
Eru is the bad guy. Not even memeing.

>can wipe clean the corrupted song with a wave of his hand
>can erase morgoth from existence with a blink
>knows all the suffering and heartache men (through no fault of their own) will suffer
>willingly becomes a cuck to morgoth by allowing him to subvert his greatest creation (earth)
>allows it all to happen because dude spice up your life lol

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>>83878306
>Oh look, it's the /pol/fag again
I have no idea what you're talking about. Orcs and goblins are the same thing in LOTR.

>>83878232
>implying it'd be the first or last time a magic ring was eaten by a fish that gets caught by a fisherman who terrorises his wife and village with it before getting robbed by some rogue or gutted by an orc

That's what fish are for, anon. Eating magic objects thrown in the sea.

>>83878259
Goblin was used to refer to the Orcs that spent their time underground. Hobgoblin were those who could come into the light and not be irritated by it.

In the films, this changed to Goblin and Orc.

>>83878209
Never said they weren't. They are a different larger breed of orcs

>>83878340
Normal Orcs didn't like sunlight either in LOTR. It's mentioned that Uruk-Hai can travel in sunlight, which sets them apart from regular Orcs.

>>83877235
The vakar intervened before. That didn't end well.

>>83878394
No, I know, but it's more of an irritating rather than outright problem. The Uruk-Hai were fixed in that regard so they could march during daytime rather than just night. Point being, getting Goblins to march at night is one thing, but they'd not be able to stand camping during day, even if they found holes or shade. Orcs could. Uruk-Hai could do either.

Hobgoblin became Orc because goblin and hobgoblin were too similar. Or it could simply be that Tolkien wanted a new word for Hobgoblins in LOTR.

>>83878266
Do orcs actually collect food by fishing and such? Also, how do orcs reproduce? Not memeing.

>>83878360
Naw. Badur Orcs were larger breed of Orcs, but not Uruk-Hai.

>>83878542
They hunt and steal iirc. As for reproducing, I believe they reproduce with any humanoid female. Uruk-Hai were produced with magic and alchemy.

>>83878542
>Do orcs actually collect food by fishing and such?

Orcs are culinary powerhouses. They have famous detailed menus and a taste for rare meats.

>>83878597
>As for reproducing, I believe they reproduce with any humanoid female
So orcs are actually all mostly human/dwarf/elf? Was Tolkien a proponent of the one drop rule?

>>83876471
Not cannon

>>83878657
learn English retard

>>83878657
Yeah, canon size is actually larger

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>>83875775
>Sadman

>>83876206
It had all dried up like your mum

>>83878633
I dunno. I can't remember. The original Orcs, I believe, were corrupted Elves. Their numbers reproduced using humanoids as breeders. With a small incubation period. Though I could be wrong, it's obviously not touched upon much in either the book or the film.

>>83878698
We don't know how big he was. All we know is he was bigger that the summit of that mountain I forgot the name of. Since that mountain doesn't have a stated height, we have to fucking guess. This is the same shit Orkfags in 40k threads saying that The Beast was the size of a Titan when the only measurement we have is 'big as a Hab-Bloc' but that has no stated size anywhere, so we assume it's the size of a apartment block. Etc.

>>83878597
>The Uruk-hai of Isengard were the tallest of these orcs, and had large hands and thick, straight legs, while the orcs of Mordor are described as bow-legged.

They were most likely average man height

>>83878657
A cannon that size would be impractical

>>83878777
pretty sure thangorodrim was 3 mountains (volcanoes) and that they were described as the highest peaks in all of middle earth

>>83878597
Barad-Dur Orcs are referred to as Uruks or Black Uruks

>>83878777
>Since that mountain doesn't have a stated height, we have to fucking guess.
It does... 35,000ft and there were three of them

>>83878877
Oh it does? I can't remember lad, sorry.

>>83878839
Oh right. My mistake.

>>83876919
Elves don't shit. They absorb everything they eat with their perfect digestive systems.

>>83878860
Really? I thought Uruks were bigger than Barad-Dur Orcs. I'll have to recheck. I thought they were just Orcs who grew to that size due to the proximity to Sauron?

>>83878952
But not everything they eat is stuff that can be broken down chemically for an energy gain. What do they do with, for example, any sand that gets into their food? All the water that it contains when there is no requirement for sweating? Etc

>>83876258
They could technically send any possible information.Say if they were to add another furnace or enlarge the flame and bifurcate it into two parts.This way they can do a binary encoding of any message within the constraints of a simple system.

>>83878777
Does Tolkien ever actually describe the Orcs' reproductive cycle? We all know GRRM would have.

>>83879029
elves only eat perfect food you dumb human

>>83879094
So they eat pure sugar and chemically pre-produced vitamins and shit?

>>83876065
Absolute spakker

>>83879055
At that point it would probably be quicker to just ride to wherever your message needs to go.

>>83879120
fuck off you fat fuck go finish your shitty book

>>83879029
>elves
>eating food tainted with sand

Why would they do that? They're not some stupid human eating bread filled with ground stone from the mill. They only eat the finest elven-crafted bread made by an elf who crafts bread like any other elven craftmen would: with perfection in mind.

>>83878976
Black uruks are just mentioned in passing and not much is known other than they are an elite fighting force for mordor. In truth they can be bigger or smaller, no one knows.

I did read somewhere that the black uruks were just a troll hybrid

>>83879060
Yes. They "had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar". tl;dr they fucked to reproduce.

Now, the problem is, nobody knows exactly how they reproduce. Tolkien never decided. He had 5 or so explanations. One was there were Orc Women and they reproduced through them. The other is they were corrupted Elves. Another they were East Elves. Another they were corrupted Elves and Men. Another they were sentient beasts. Another they were Fallen Maiar. Finally the other one was they were a cross-breed of Orcs and Men.

People go with the cross-breed example as that's actually mentioned in LOTR, rather than being a potential explanation.

>>83879060
>they are either rape babbies

>or they are sterile tortured elves mass produced by morgoth and the remaining orcs in lotr are the leftovers of the great wars

>>83876133
>they were really giant toilets built by the dwarfs

Maybe that's how Gandalf and the balrog survived the fall from the bridge, by landing in a giantic pile of dwarf turds?

>>83876312
Sound like the best life a medieval NEET can ask for

>>83879251
Err, their original, not how they reproduce. They fuck to reproduce, but their origin is not known. What is known is that there was cross-breeds in LOTR. Whether that's all Orcs or just that type, nobody knows.

>>83879306
It would be petrified turd given the length of time since it was last occupied which means death for gandalf

>>83879306
Is that why Gandalf became Gandalf the White? he had to really wash himself with some bleach after that

>>83878334
As someone who has actually read the books, they are literally objectively factually not the same thing.

>>83879372
As someone who has actually read the books, they are.

>>83879356
maybe the orcs and goblins used it too

does moria being wrecked by orcs mean that dwarves are like near extinct now? do they have other mines or cities where a bunch of them live?

>>83879358
Yeah in the first draft he became Gandalf the Brown but Tolkien was afraid people would mistake him for a nigger

>>83879531
The Blue Mountains and Iron Hills are well populated with Dwarves

>>83876054
>afraid of the Balrog
>could solo it
Yeah, sure.

>>83876110
>And how would they heat it up later after it turned back to stone?
In a microwave.
For self-entitled know-it-alls, you guys are pretty dumb.

>>83879653
Read the books

>>83879206
Aren't black uruks shown in rotk?

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>>83875602

>>83875602


He hasn't concerned about the orcs.

He was worried about the Balrog the dwarves dug up.

He warned everyone specifically about it.

They were forced to go through Moria.

>>83879151
not if they had a capable binary message reader/sender.Its exactly like morse,infact this would be faster because its light.Remember they dont have to decipher at runtime.They can decipher once the complete message has been sent.Also this eliminates the risk of messenger dying wjile travellimg or getting ambushed or basically any loss of info based on the messengers part.

>>83879852
At that point you might as well say "why didn't they just invent telegraph?".

>>83878314

Implying there weren't Japs in France.

>>83875890
Remember, they were crossing the mountains during winter, which means that it's not so unrealistic that their options would be limited.

>>83879847
That's fucking obvious. He still just seemed suspicious, not certain. So nobody else in ME knew anything about what happened to Moria, which is something I find strange. And it's primarily about the orcs that I don't get.

>>83875615
Isn't that in Africa?

>>83879959
You're thinking of Jackie Chan, he's Chinese.

>>83879682
Irony, thy name is anon.
Gandalf did solo the Balrog, him dying while doing so doesn't change that fact.

>>83880401
Him soloing the Balrog doesn't change the fact that he was scared of it.

>>83880401
Dude he got lucky with an environmental kill. Not the same a soloing.

>>83880512
u wot
he fought it for 10 days and killed it on top of the mountain

>>83880401
Anon, being able to do something, having a chance, does not mean that he considered the automatic. A Balrog is a being on the same order of magnitude as Gandalf.
In addition, you don't want that fucking thing close the the One Ring, for the same reasons you don't rub it in the face of Galadriel or Glorfindel.

>>83880512
>luck plays no part in battle
el oh el
Durin's Bane should've watched his footing, desu

>>83880571
>A Balrog is a being on the same order of magnitude as Gandalf.
>Balrog and Gandalf are the same level
>hurr durr he was totally scared of it.
Gandalf knew he could solo the Balrog, he was just afraid the other members of the Fellowship would get it in his way.

>>83880103
silly

>>83878081
gotta love Tolkien's vague descriptions of fighting. so how exactly does an elderly man fight a giant made out of flame?
>"Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels"
oh, thanks for clearing that up J.R.R.

>>83880603
They are both maia. Fuck, he DIES because of the fight and is resurrected.
What the fuck are you even talking about.

Also,
>In addition, you don't want that fucking thing close the the One Ring
I stated this, too.

>>83880775
>an elderly man
a literal demigod

>>83876772

fuck off back to game of thrones, martinfag

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>>83880775
>an elderly man

>>83880775
BTW, PJ got the fight wrong. Too much clutching and not enough hewing.
What an hack.

>>83880812
>>In addition, you don't want that fucking thing close the the One Ring
The Balrog can't wear the Ring, silly, it's too small.

>>83880775
It means Gandalf tried to turn the Balrog into lumber but the Balrog wouldn't let him.

>>83876038
kek

>>83877663
Wait, lotor has sucubi?

>>83877508
>but a majority of Americans have never been to DC

You don't know Americans. We travel quite a bit. I've lived on both coasts

How did the Orcs know what a menu is?

>>83881011
Mordor is known for its many high quality restaurants.
The best chef schools are in Mordor.

Anyone ever had the feeling, the dwarves could have avoid a large portion of their demise. Had they not built giant pointless halls, that allowed for giant creatures to roam their cities?

>>83877304
Smaug is dead since decades, idiot.

>>83878209
Urujs are elf orc hybrids. Magical gene splicing.

>>83876696
>GRRM tries to tie reality with fantasy.

Ha

>>83881181
Key word being "tries".

>>83878394
Think of orcs as drow or dark elves. They are thesame speciese, just a variation of expressed charecteristics. Sort of like vulkuns and romuluns.

>>83877586
Probably the Balrog, he's immune to the dragon's fire and he can't be killed with claws or teeths. A dragon is very powerful indeed but can be killed (like Smaug with the giant arrow). Would be a tough fight tho.

>>83881261
Vulkans and romulans are the same species with different ideologies

>>83877785
> Elves found the idea of in such a place aesthetically distasteful.

what is Menegroth, what is Nargothrond?

>>83881261
except drow are just as advanced as elves, just with a different ideology while orcs are on the level of african tribesmen

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>>83877924

>>83881310
What are anecdotes?

>>83878542
Orc/goblin reproduction takes place between male orc/gob (as they all are) and female humans, elves, hobbits and dwarves. That is why orcs and goblins vary so much in stature and apperance. Orc/elf vs gob/elf or even orc/hobit.

Many combinations.

>>83878168
Eru is true neutral. With some exceptions.

>>83878330
Eru said that Melkor couldn't come up with anything that did not have its ultimate origin in Himself, so yeah, Tolkien's answer to the Problem of Evil is that God isn't purely good.

>>83881370
>making shit up: the post

>>83879094
I read somewhere that you can't rape elves, they just vanish/die or something

What exactly would happen if Sauron got hold of the ring? I mean last time he had it all we saw him doing was that one AoE attack that killed like six duded per swing but in the end he was defeated by a normal human with a regular sword. I mean sure that's cool and all but why didn't he just use his power to do something more efficient than killing enemy armies six people at a time?

>>83880552
Where he had the advantage since the thing was a being of fire on a Fucking snow capped fucking mountain. The blizzard probrably did more dps than the arthritic flailing of Gandolfs staff.

>>83875938
Why gandalf is such a shitty wizard?
>can't cast fireballs
>can't cast invisibility
>can't even cast a fucking illusion

All he can do, can be done by a 75W lightbulb

>>83881523
>normal human
>regular sword
That's where you're wrong

>>83881067
Yeah, of they had built sensibly only goblins would be an issue since orcs or even elves or humans would be too large.

>>83881579
yeah maybe he was weaker than a normal human since he got killed later by random orcs

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>>83877425
>Pedo Mellon, Im Narvi

>>83881366
Okay, maybe I should have realized that since the word 'moria' is Sindarian that it would be some Morquendi / teleri plebs naming it.

How did the Dwarves get their vitamin D in those caves

>>83881625
You mean ambushed.

>>83880775

I don't think the balrog's height was ever described in the books. In fact do you remember the scene in the movie where the fellowship is holed up in that little room before they were discovered by orcs? Well in the books if I remember correctly the balrog was able to walk inside of that room so he couldn't have been as tall as the movie depicted him.

>>83881523
the one ring was created to control the rings of power so it wouldn't do much. gandalf, elrond, and galadriel are the only characters left with rings of power, but the last time sauron put the ring on the elves took their rings off....so they'd probably just do that again. the nazgul are already under his control.

so yea it's kind of worthless other than his life force being bound to it.

>>83875602
Let's be real here for a minnute. Let's have a real frank discussion right? The fellowship as you would call it, they were not the brightest stars in the sky. They weren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed. This is the same fellowship that thought it would be a good idea to give the most powerful ring in the world to a hobbit. Oh what's that? Sauron is inevitably going to take over the entire world? The only way to stop him is to destroy this ring? Hmm, Frodo, you take it. I mean let's think about that for just a second huh? Is there really no other better candidate? I mean even Gandalf was like it's only a last ditch hope. The wizard himself thought there was a very slim chance Frodo was going to actually do it. So just because Frodo was the one who got the ring passed down to him, suddenly he's the best candidate for it? Like, oh, we can't morally put this task on anyone, not even Frodo, but because Frodo volunteered for the job because Bilbo gave it to him, we're just going to let him do it. These are not the actions of a bright fellowship or council.

>>83881836
if they gave to anyone with even a little bit of power they would have been too tempted to use it.

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>>83881801
>mfw Sauron is like Bart in that episode of Simpsons where he sells his soul

poor guy just wanted to be whole again

>>83881963
But why didn't they give the ring to a more adventurous action hobbit like Tom Cruise instead of to a teenager (or whatever the hobbit equivalence of a teenager is)?

>>83881963
frodo used it a bunch and almost got them killed, plus didn't even destroy it at the end. should've given it to sam who didn't give a fuck.

>>83881836
Gandalf would have been drawn to the rings power. He also thought hobbits were a good candidate to carry the ring since they enjoyed the simple life.

>>83881979
This is accurate.

>>83881979
i guess. if he did get the ring back i don't really know what would be different. it's supposed to be 'bend the will of others' but when he had the ring 2,000 years ago men and elves resisted him. which is... the same thing that happened in LoTR.

in LoTR he doesn't have the ring yet amasses a giant army of orcs and the southern people. doesn't really make any sense tbqh.

I think his ultimate goal (Sauron) is to get back Melkor. Same thing he tried in Numenor, if he can get Melkor from beyond the edges of the world and free him all of a sudden things change...

>>83881625
Woah....so sauron.... is weaker than a..... weak human....rmyt

>>83882146
>>83881801
>>83881523
The ring itself represents a bit of a hedge on Sauron's part. With the ring still in existence, he could not be completely killed, but he did sacrifice some of his power to it. With the ring in his possession, Sauron would no longer need to concern himself with scouring for his only weakness. Eliminating this vulnerability and tapping the power he instilled within the One Ring would allow him to overrun Middle-Earth with his hordes of fell beasts and corrupted men.

BTW, it's important to note that all powers, good and bad are in progressive decline through the ages of Middle-Earth. By the Lord of the Rings, Sauron is returning to power but still a pale shadow of the malevolent being that Gil-Gilad and Elendil (near gods in terms of might and power compared to their descendents) could not defeat. While Sauron was perhaps literally but a shadow of his former self, both the Elves and High Men had also faded in power in the Third Age too. However, the One Ring is a relic of the Second Age. As such, it would offer a profound amount of power for Sauron to wield in a world where magic has waned.

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>entire world is fucked because two evil wizards are invading with fuckhuge armies
>ragtag gang of heroes still manage to utterly wipe out the enemy and bring about a new golden age
>"lol wtf why didnt they use the eagles? all of my ideas are better than theirs lol"

>>83882335
>gets crowned king
>starts singing

>>83882374
>immediately begins his reign by singing in Elvish and bowing to Hobbits
>immediately declares Rohan a rebel kingdom and has Eomer and Eowyn impaled on stakes
>collects taxes twice a year instead of once

wtf was he thinking??

>>83882335
It's important to note that God literally had to step in because Frodo blew it.

>>83882445
Pretty much anyone else would have blew it five minutes after coming into possession of the ring though.

>>83875602
Gandalf pretty much knew but he was desperate.
And Gimli was in denial like >>83875615
said

>>83882476
Not sam. Maybe the Eagles would've been cool too, who knows, they don't want to have anything to do with anybody.

>>83876312
they probably took it in turns

>>83876549
>Also, what if they just put the ring in a box, gave the box to some elf without telling him what's inside?
The ring would call out to the elf, urging him to open the box.

>>83876566
FUCKING LOL

>>83882419
Is this your interpretstion of how grrm would have written it?

What happened to ME during Aragorn's reign and his descendants? Did it further decay or did it flourish? Did it reach the height of 2nd age civilisations or did it just remain as small kingdoms in the shadow of its former self?

>>83883010
what's ME lad

>>83883010
they changed the tax policy a lot

>>83883027

it's a Middle Earth, you dip

>>83883010
Read the appendices.

>>83875890
Wilderland is dangerous country and a lot of the passes are deadly, Caradhras was possibly safer since the weather would deter orcs and prevent them being spied upon. Also they didn't want to pass close to Isengard or Dunland.There are lots of passes like azanulbizar, high pass and some northern ones.

In the books the reason why Gimli and the dwarves are in Rivendell is that they're going to investigate what happened in Moria. It isn't stated in the movie, but it isn't retconned.

Anyway the fellowship had no other choice. It's either Moria, Gap of Rohan, mountain pass or Gundabad.

Gap of Rohan = Going right through Saruman's territory, extremely close to Isengard. And at this point, Rohan is controlled by Saruman through Theoden. So instant death and the ring is lost.

Mountains = Instant death by avalanche.

Gundabad and the surrounding area = filled with orcs, certain death.

Moria = not sure, might be dangerous might even not be. The only place near enough so that the party isn't killed by pursuers.

>>83883196
Wow, someone who actually read the book. Take a lesson, punk faggots.

>>83883196
>Gap of Rohan = Going right through Saruman's territory, extremely close to Isengard. And at this point, Rohan is controlled by Saruman through Theoden

>Have thousands of knights sick of theoden's shit
>Ents are also sick of saruman's shit

It was the best choice, go away gandalf.

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>>83883304
All of that is irrelevant. Mustering enough strength to attack Saruman would have taken far too long, and the ents weren't that pissed at this point. Saruman could have easily reached and captured the party before anyone even knew they were in Rohan.

>>83883196
The long way round was also suggested, but that could have taken years, and wolves were already on their trail.

>>83883107
I did a long time ago. As far as I can remember, things went well and Aragorn's heir reigned for a long time. I can't remember what happened to Rohan though.

>>83883362
Also Dunland is allied with Saruman (the blood knife guy in the movies is a Dunlending) so they'd probably get captured there.

>>83883362
>>83883304
Gandalf still fucked up by telling Saruman about the ring.

>>83883196
Is this stated in the book? Man, I gotta read it again.

>>83883304
>implying rohan knights would ever disobey the orders of their king
doesn't sound plausible in the least in tolkien's world where loyalty, duty and honour are prized above all

>>83876369
>being this new

>>83883408
They were there for two purposes: To ask guidance in the matter of the ambassador from Sauron, who had come to Erebor to ask the dwarves to join Sauron and they were to find out what happened to Balin

>>83883486
did you just read it? that is some nice memory

>>83876680

dragons need food?

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>>83883516
Just remember it. Found it in the book, it isn't really that significant or highlighted. Just an off the cuff mention.

>>83883430
Uglúk was loyal to Saruman, and Beregond was disloyal to Denethor. Tolkien isn't black and white.

>>83883544
uuuuuhm yeah?

don't you fucking watch game of thrones?

so was LOTR a metaphor for world war and are orcs = russians?

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Would any of the stories in Silmarillion or The Book of Lost Tales translate well into the big screen? Of course, this is just fantasizing, they would be most likely bastardized, but still...
Maybe short movies?
I can't remember the specifics of the stories anymore, it's been such a long time since I've read them. I remember one story about a man raised by the Northern elves or something along those lines.
Him leaving the elves (or was he banished?) and growing up, then later to return and slay a dragon or a serpent near a chasm.
I can't remember how the story ended though.
Does anyone here know what I'm talking about?
Another one was about a King of the Seas or a Captain King. He couldn't be at ease when on shore, abandoning his duties as a leader, as a father and as a husband.

>>83883822
Negro rights movement.

>>83883865
Perhaps as a short series based on the history of ME. But it would be really difficult because each episode would have new characters to relate to so ME in itself or perhaps the civilisations would be the characters the audience would be able to relate to.

>tolkienfag posts are very pleasant to read
>but then meme spouting overspill from capeshit threads starts acting like kids.

tolkienthreads are the best

>>83883822
Literally yes, Tolkein is just that boring.

>>83883822
why would a brit fighting against krauts in french trenches make a metaphor about WW1 with the enemies as russians

>>83883822
>>83883971
I don't think it was Russians.
Tolkien fought in WW1 and the russian empire was part of Entente just like Britain. If it was a propaganda piece, would you shit on your allies?

Tolkien was a fierce Catholic. You have to look in biblical metaphors.

>>83883822
I don't know if this is bait, but Tolkien himself stated multiple times that his stories shouldn't be compared at all to the Great War or the Second World War. It was just an universe he created for himself. Take that as you will.

>>83883994
Because the poster you're responding to is actually clinically retarded.

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Is this a orc or an goblin?

>>83884080
Aren't they the same thing?

>>83884080
All I see is a citizen of middle earth you fucking racist

>>83883822
Stop. Tolkien's works reflect on timeless themes about basic human emotions, not nuanced political movements. You can see parallels, metaphors and allegories for pretty much anything.

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>>83883865
kino right here

>>83884105
but steel's heavier than feathers

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>>83884198
They are all monsters to me, I don't discriminate.

>>83884154
>only one POC
>he's the bad guy

What did you mean by this?

>>83884057
it's something my literature teacher asked me to write an essay about

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>>83884154
For the Silmarilion movie they should hire all the female Silmarilion artists who love the concept of twinky elves and men having homosex with each other for art direction. Like Jackson hired Howe and such.

>>83884308
Then you can write that your teacher is retarded for asking you to write such a thing.
You can actually mention that very thing I did and then try to find parallels.

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>>83884308
>literature teachers

>>83884422
Three dubs.

>>83884378
>>83884057
Tolkien statement is true but it's also true that this creation of his is based off his personal experiences whenever he did so consciously or not.

>>83884378
it was couple years ago, i didn't submit an essay back then because fuck school and it still haunts me to this day
t. ivan

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>>83884311
>tfw no gf obsessed with Tolkien

>>83884478
>muh unconscious bias
Yeah, fuck off.

>>83883865
Children of Hurin is the first story. Amazing book.
The second sounds like the tale of Aldarion and Erendis.

>>83884757
Thanks, I guess I could re-read those at some point.

>>83884820
CoH is really one of Tolkien's finest works, I think. Really worth a read.

>>83884907
Oh really wow okay i'll have to do that thanks!