What was his plan for if Batman actually killed Superman and

Hope for a better director in the next film

He still had loads of kryptonite, Batman stole just a chunk.

He was hoping the average capeshit viewer wouldn't think that much.

>>83872504
>implying autistic people have plans

He never believed Batman would be capable. Lex always thought himself superior to others.

>>83872504
He's insane, his plans don't have to make sense.

>>83872504
He's got Darksied's backing (which is some shit we needed to know) so letting doomsday fuck over a couple of cities why he flew around collecting the McGuffins (more shit we needed to know) Would be 'part of the plan'. Then he shows up with kryptonite missles or some shit and enjoys head pats from the guvornmint while secrectly preparing to become Darksied's representative on earth.
Fuck you Snyder stick to music videos you hack.

>>83872504
>yeah well Doomsday is killing us all but that's OK because at least a filthy xeno isn't polluting the earth by trying to save our lives

>>83872504
>Batman kills Superman
>turn off the Doomsday making process
Huh. Really makes me think.

>>83872504
He figured Superman would just kill Batman on the spot since its mother's life was on the line. Pretty simple. Shit thread.

>>83872890
Why did they write Lex Luthor like he was the Joker?

>>83873073
They're both similar characters. One is an insane criminal with mad science tendencies, the other is a mad scientist with insane criminal tendencies.

>>83872504
Retrieve the kryptonite and gather the Justice League himself, saving the world and therefore becoming the Superman

>>83873099

> Implying that Luthor is actually a mad scientist who act like the Joker

Too much Snyder for you buddy

>>83873073
This movie was Lex Luthor's origin story. In previous Superman movies they show Lex Luthor grown up and as a particular character, this movie was just showing you how he gets to that point.

>>83873100

> Gather the justice league

> He Hates metahumans


U fail

>>83873073
because zack snyder is a hack

>>83872947
>He's got Darksied's backing (which is some shit we needed to know) so letting doomsday fuck over a couple of cities why he flew around collecting the McGuffins (more shit we needed to know) Would be 'part of the plan'. Then he shows up with kryptonite missles or some shit and enjoys head pats from the guvornmint while secrectly preparing to become Darksied's representative on earth.
How were we supposed to know this?

It's very easy. In his hubris Lex didn't believe that Batman would be capable of doing his job: killing Superman.

>>83873251
Out of the 3 answers I got, this seems like the most believable one.

>>83873253
Alot of the 'final' draft of the script never made it to production and the few scenes that did, like Lex talking via shady alien tech to a deep ass voice, got cut. You have to watch the God's Only Special Snowflake Director's Extended Edition and sit through a ton of horrible commentary before it gets talked about.
It's not worth it.

>>83873185
To be fair, Lex's hate boner for Superman gets the better of him every other week. And he has a fair bit of crazy in him, too.
https://youtu.be/91IZfMWoQtg

>>83872504
The better question is how did he co-ordinate with Batman to have his "kidnap Martha and release Doomsday" plan on the same night as Batman's "fire up the Batsignal to get Superman to come fight" plan?

Did he text Batman and say, "hey finally got Martha u dun ur weapons and stuff yet? 10PM 2nite work?"

>>83872504
>and then doomsday was released
then he wouldn't be released until Darkseid or one of his minions came here.

>>83873934
Doomsday was released upon his creation. He hatched. Regardless of what happened with everything else Doomsday was gonna come outta that thing.

>>83874019
nope

>>83874078
Yup.

>>83874078
>>83874019
nope, you're correct. My bad.

>>83872504
Clearly Lex assumed he was going to have more control over the creature. He didn't expect it to try to pound his brains out the moment it saw him. Like its creator, Doomsday has serious daddy issues.

>>83874142
>Clearly Lex assumed he was going to have more control over the creature

Why would he assume that when the kryptonian computer decided to create a monster that he would have control over it and what indicates to the viewer that he assumed this?

>>83874188
Blood of my Blood.

>>83874566
>>83874188
Born to destroy Superman, his Doomsday.

And Luthor considers hiiimself the Anti-Superman, and probably thought the creature would have some sort of sentience.

Or maybe it just overreacted when it say Clark near him and tried ot punch Lex.

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>>83873251

>a hack

Snyder is a genius for picking Jesse Eisenberg and portraying Lex as a Google/Facebook hip exec. Eisenberg should have gotten an Oscar for his performance

fuck the haters

>>83872504
Creating the unstoppable rage monster out of spite was the point when he stopped pretending and went full comic book Luthor.

>>83874642
This, senpai

>>83874642
>dude let's create a monster and let it kill people to show the people why it's all Superman's fault
ayy lmao

>>83874842

it's sad this people who unironically call this garbage a masterpiece

>>83874842
>>83874942

Neither of you understand the movie, kill yourselves.

>>83874642
Snyder is a hack. He's trying to force a philosophical debate that doesn't fit into this movie. You could try to argue that superman is all good but he's nowhere near all powerful. So this little speech of Lex is right. Which is a problem because you're supposed to disagree with him. Now maybe you could say that the critical flaw Lex is making is making superman out to be a god when he isn't but that's literally the same thing Snyder has done with both films.

>>83875425
jfc. he isn't a god he is perceived as a god by humans.

sometimes i ask myself why i even bother explaining BvS when its been countlessly discussed here several times. it really gets tiring doing this

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>AHHHHHHHHHHHHH MUMMY THE RED CAPES ARE FALLING!!!!!!!! YARRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

>>83872664
>He still had loads of kryptonite
No he doesn't.

>>83872992
he was already fully formed, how are you going to pull the plug when he comes out the same minute the time limit ends? that's like trying to abort a pregnancy when the baby is halfway through the vagina

>>83875409
ebin response

>>83873746
that bugged the hell out of me. He had to have saw the symbol in the sky, told his goons to fly to Kansas which takes 3hrs. kidnap her and take another 3hrs to get back. This excludes all the time to and from the airport in a car or helicopter so total maybe 7 & half hrs to set this whole thing up. Was Batman standing in the rain for 7hrs waiting for Superman to show up? that's gotta be some commitment

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>>83875409

s-sorry Anon

Why did Batman waste all that time and energy fighting all 30 of the goons in charge of guarding MARTHA, when he could have just broken the window and snatched MARTHA from the 2 guys in the back room and then left before anyone had noticed?

Superman is not a god. Superman is not all good. Superman is not all powerful.

He is clearly depicted as flawed. I am not even sure what lex was trying to accomplish. The movie might as well been about him being upset at usain bolt because he runs faster than most.

>>83872504
>DARKSEID HELP ME

>>83872504
He simply wouldn't have released doomsda..

>>83875481
>sometimes i ask myself why i even bother explaining BvS when its been countlessly discussed here several times. it really gets tiring doing this
This answer doesn't work when Snyder can't go 5 minutes without making religious parallels. Sorry buddy but you don't spend half your time trying to create visual links between superman and jesus and then say "oh but he's not god, he's just perceived as a god by humans".

>>83872504
Good question

>>83875554
>10 seconds to animation
>if man wont kill god, the devil will do it
>"3 large lances jab into the sac containing doomsday, electrical arcs reminicent of frankenstiens monster light the room and flood out of the ship"
The simile of human abortion does not really hold water here, as an embryo is animated (read alive) long before the birth.

You think he ever entertained the idea of Doomsday, a creature that he personally created, not obeying him? I kinda doubt that even occured to him. He wasn't exactly the most mentally stable guy around, you see.

On some level it takes a genius to write a script where the villains plan is this fucking stupid.

>>83875481
no fucking shit, how far behind are bvs fag?

>>83872504

He knew about the flash, aqua man, wonder woman and the kryptonite spear.

Not to mention his connections to apocalypse.

>>83877285
>On some level it takes a genius to write a script where the villains plan is this fucking stupid
>On some level
>Where the villains plan is this fucking stupid.
>Where the villains plan is
>It takes a genius to write
>On some level it takes
>A script
>Where the villains plan is this
>On some level it takes a genius
>Is this fucking stupid

>>83877339
>enter thread
>ctrl+f "Diana"
>nothing
>ctr+f "Wonder"
>One hit. One fucking hit.
>took over four hours for it to get mentioned

The DChads are right. This movie really is too smart for you brain dead fucks.

>>83877238
doting over zods body quoting Icarus, and later refering to him as "blood of my blood" really played to his daddy issues
if Clark had died, im not sure if Lex would have stopped the procedure, or let doomsday run amok to garner defence and rebuilding contracts. He was definately surprised when doomsday tried to strike him.

>>83877389
I stand by my statement tripfag, there's too many problems with Luthors plan for a normal person to have come up with it. Average guy might have come up with a plan with one or two flaws, takes a genius to come up with the dozens of problems with Luthors plan.

>>83877574

The thing about Luthor in the movie is that he wanted power and before the appearance of Superman power for him was knowledge. That's why in the movie Lexcorp is essentially Google/Facebook on steroids.

But after the appearance of Superman, though? Being the smartest and most knowledgeable guy in the room didn't cut anymore. Lex felt small and inadequate. There's a reason he's a skinny and awkward fuckboy in comparison to Superman and Batman.

So the whole movie is Lex trying to drag Superman through the mud so Superman can be seen as a fuck-up and trying to find something, ANYTHING that can give Lex the feel of true power. When he gets his hands on the alien ship with all the cool information he pretty much goes nuts. The kryptonite wasn't essential anymore. He could create his own Superman, made out of his blood, a part of himself. He could be essentially a god. And later he pretty much sells the world in exchange of revenge/escape/more power.

So I've come to the conclusion that BvS had some interesting ideas but did such a profoundly awful job at conveying them that they may as well not have been present at all, and that the film would basically have to be remade from the ground up to properly represent them properly.

>>83877804
I want to hear what concepts and ideas you see in it. I want to see how well they match up with mine.

>>83872504
The way they shoved in Doomsday in order to have some big bad guy to fight together was fucking awful. You can tell the script was midway through rewrites and they decided to shoot it anyway.

>>83877739
I think you know that's bullshit so fuck you

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>>83877804

The actual problem is that people were accustomed with characters doing exposition on their real motives and shit, thanks to the MCU movies, where everything is made clear.

MoS and BvS, though, have the characters mostly lying to themselves and others. You can only really understand them by seeing what they do or show in comparison to what they say. You've to piece things together.

This is something that modern audiences accustomed with much more simpler cape movies couldn't deal with.

Take for example Superman in BvS. He tells Lois that he doesn't care what others say about him because it's a bunch of lie, but every time you see him he's glued to the TV watching news about him or feeling frustrated at his job because his newspaper is more worried about chasing dirt on Superman because it is a hot issue instead of paying attention to the awful shit Batman has been doing in Gotham, a neighboring city.

So you can't really take Clark's words at face value. He's lying to Lois and to himself. He's extremely bothered by everything people has been saying about him. But most people would take his words at face value and be confused by his actions.

Basically this movie being a capeshit, specially with such known characters, was a mistake. Maybe if they had created OCs kinda like Watchmen people would be more lenient with it.

>>83877937

How it is bullshit. Explain to me, please.

>>83875837
People perceived him as a god so being killed by some vigilante with a robot armor and a spear and then not being there to prevent the destruction of Metropolis by a kryptonian monster should be enough to make it clear for everybody

Guess who has access to kryptonite and has been warning the politicians to get a weapon against alien monsters the whole movie. Seriously, I think BvS has fatal flaws but you guys didn't get it for real

>>83878018
> the whole movie is Lex trying to drag Superman through the mud

How exactly does creating Doomsday help him slander Superman?

>>83877992
deliberately making character motivations hard to understand is not good storytelling. Even if the plot is complex and full of intricacy, the viewer should not be left wondering why characters do what they do. It's the filmmaking equivalent of going
>here's your test booklet. It's padlocked. Opening the test is a part of the test, and the test actually began 5 minutes ago :^)

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>>83872504
bad scriptwriting was his plan

>>83878060

I just fucking told you that once he got access to the alien ship and found all the wondrous things he decided that playing god was much more fun?

>>83878060
By laying that on him, too. He was pretty much the only person alive who understood the Kryptonian tech well enough to use it, so if he said Supes broke in and made a monster, there's no one who could dispute that but Supes, unfortunately he's also the same guy that just ripped a crazy billionair's head off for no apparent reason.

>>83878133
That was shit the first time you posted it and it's still shit today.

>>83872504
>tax relief for the 1%

>>83878137
Contradicted by the timeline of events as shown in the film

>>83873099
No they don't.

This luthur is literally nothing like the real luthur

>>83878191
still relevant as ever

>>83878229
The film isn't presented chronologically, most especially Lex's scenes.

>>83878145
You think he created Doomsday to fucking frame Superman?

>>83878229

Nope.

The Nairomi massacre is what gave him access to the ship and Lex wasn't even after the ship, but the kryptonite and the body. The ship was just a perk. Once he got the ship and got inside, that's when he decided to play god. By then his previous plans were already getting fucked.

>>83878246

There's no real Luthor, sweet-heart.

>>83878254
Not when you ignore every response that's ever been made to it and never alter it in any way.

It's shit, and you're a fucking dumbass to think otherwise.

>>83878269
Except the film shows him playing God before he gets Superman to fight with Batman

>>83878331

Superman fight with Batman had nothing to do about dragging Superman to the mud, but all about him proving that Superman is not a good man. It was all about him proving that Superman was a selfish cunt that could kill someone else for his own personal gain, which was keep his mother safe, and that Lex was the one forcing him do it. Lex had power over him.

Good God, man. Think. He had already dragged Superman through the mud way before that confrontation.

>>83872504
Didn't you watch the movie? He thought Doomsday was gonna suck his cock or something

>>83878396
>kill someone who is threatening your family
>selfish cunt
??????????

>>83878396
Okay and what happens after the fight with Batman? Lex creates Doomsday explicitly stating that he's making Doomsday because Batman failed to kill Superman. Which shows that the point of having Superman fight Batman was not to "prove Superman isn't good" but to kill Superman.

>>83878396
I disagree. Lex never asks anyone for anything that it's not in their power to give him. He asked Clark for one thing: Bruce's head, and he expected him to deliver.

That does more than just drag his name through the mud. It's the culmination of the smear campaign - making him a cold-blooded murderer.

>wants to prove Superman is a fraud
>creates a monster capable of killing Superman
>spends the entire movie giving shit to that senator so they start building some antialien weapons
>he's the only one with the tools to stop the alien monster therefore proving himself right
Stick to baby groot friends

>>83878462
>It's the culmination of the smear campaign - making him a cold-blooded murderer.
Sounds like Marvel marketing department at work

>>83878293
Wrong faggot

>>83878440

Batman was no threatening Superman's family, Lex was. Superman was going to kill an "innocent" to keep his mother safe. Superman was going to do a bad thing for his own sake, not for the good of the world.

>>83878447

Lex never had faith in Batman. He thought Superman would come back with Batman's head in hands doing exactly what he was told.

Basically, by forcing Superman to kill Batman, he'd prove that Superman is not all good like people believed him to be. And by having Superman be killed by Lex's Doomsday, he'd prove that Superman is not all powerful like people also believed him to be,

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>>83878492
Now you're getting it. Remember - Lex is the same guy already looking to "brand" the "Justice League." Notice any icons missing?

>a scene where he talks to the senator about how he hasn't changed a single thing in his father's room
>refers to doomsday as blood of my blood

Wow that was hard. Maybe he should have quiped about it when talking to Supes.

>marvelcucks literally didn't understand BvS
Ok that's embarrassing

>>83878520
But Superman went up to Batman to ask for help and Batman instigated the fight by responding with gunfire

>>83878667

What that has to do with anything as far as Lex is concerned?

>>83872565
kek

>>83878520
So what you're saying is Lex got Batman to try to kill Superman even though he knew he'd fail?

>>83878691
Well it disproves the idea that Superman was going off to murder an innocent to protect his mom, because he went off to beg for assistance instead of violence. Honestly choosing Batman as the murder test was stupid because Batman was probably the one guy on Earth that Superman could turn to in such a pinch for help, and Lex's master keikaku brought them together right when Superman needed him most. He should have grabbed a homeless guy off the street, or something.

>>83878732

Yes. He could ask Superman to go kill the president, for all it was worth, but there was a big chance Superman and the president could work something together since they had no ill blood between them. By asking him to kill Batman, someone that already had an issue and was looking for a fight with Superman, Superman would had a bigger trouble trying to find a solution. Also, by asking him to kill Batman, a guy that hated Superman for the Metropolis attack, he was also forcing Superman to go face one of his many "sins".

>>83878771
>>83878827

Batman also had been investigating Lex shit and could tie him to the kryptonite bullshit. Batman was a liability.

>>83874642
i felt wierd for being sexually attracted to lex in this film

whats wrong with me bros?

>>83872504
nobody thought this shit through not the writers not the directors not the characters themselves

>>83878732

Lex used the wheelchair dude as a witness in the Superman hearing despite knowing the guy would blow himself up.

>>83878107
>Everything should pander to the lowest denominator because I said so

>>83878855
yeah well when it's a good idea to not give your targets the opportunity to assist each other. Batman was a liability but he was also a bit of a wild card, and if he chose to help Superman instead of kill him (which he did), Luthor's whole plan comes crashing down

>>83878945
>strawman arguments
As expected of Snyderfags

>>83878961

But Lex didn't think of that. He thought Batman would go loco on Superman and that Superman, who he thinks is no better than himself, would off Batman for his mother's sake. He didn't think they would patch up and be friends.

>>83878985
I actually hated the movie but your post was too retarded not to be called out

Big hint to you: if you don't have to fucking stop and think about something it isn't complex

>>83878992
Why would he be confident in his ability to predict Batman's actions when he was scared of Batman in the first place because he didn't know what Batman was capable of/thinking?

>>83879088

Lex had been able to play Batman up to that confrontation, though. Lex thinks nobody is better than him. That he's the smartest person ever and he can control everyone. Superman is thought of as a good man? LIES! Superman's just faking it. Superman is thought of as powerful? Well, Lex will find a way to bring him down.

Lex has a huge ego. And everyone that dares to slight him are disposed off in petty ways. Look at what he did to the senator lady.

>>83879077
Complexity =/= obscurity you dumb faggot. Complexity with clarity is a well-constructed symphony. One can spend days, or even years, deconstructing every last nuance and minor element in the work, but when viewed as a whole it makes sense, it tells a coherent story, and the audience can clearly perceive the melodies and supporting rhythms at every stage. This is not what BvS is. BvS is complexity, without clarity. It is the equivalent of a whole orchestra's worth of instruments just doing whatever the fuck they want while a few people try to play the proper notes in the background.

>>83879169
2bh having Superman kill somebody "innocent" as a means of protecting his family is a terrible way to prove to the people that Superman isn't a good guy. I bet a ton of people would sympathize with him.

>>83879180

>This is not what BvS is. BvS is complexity, without clarity. It is the equivalent of a whole orchestra's worth of instruments just doing whatever the fuck they want while a few people try to play the proper notes in the background.

You know, it's funny.

You guys complain that BvS wasn't clear enough and purposely obscured it shitty plot, but when people explain what was plainly in the movie you guys quickly change the tune to complain that BvS had no subtlety and was loud and obnoxious, thus a bad movie.

It's either one or the other anon.

>>83879258
>my only defense is to pretend that the guy I'm responding to is a person that I've made up in my head, and attributing the complaints from several different posters all to this same strawman
good job?

>>83879258
Or a third option, your a deluded shitposting DCcuck?

>>83879233

Well, kinda, but that was the way Lex found to show to Superman and the world how Superman was no better than him or anyone else. That Superman is as selfish as any other man, placing his life and those of his loved ones above the people he swore or is supposed to protect.

That's what all that speech about godhood on the rooftop was about. Lex wasn't calling Superman a god, like some people here believe. Lex doesn't believe in a God or gods or whatever. He just said all that shit to prove that the very concept of a god is a tribal thing. Shit people made up to justify their own self-importance and hate for their neighbors. That humans are tribal by nature. We only care for our shit, fuck everyone else. And that Superman is like that as well. He only cares for Lois. That's how Lex found Superman's secret identity. That's how Lex managed to bait Superman to that African massacre. Lex knew he would find out and he did find out that one special lady Superman cared more above everyone else. Because Superman's selfish like everyone in the world. And now Superman again would prove his selfishness by offing someone to protect his shit on Lex say so. Lex would have a false god bend to his will and Superman would do it. Because he's not better than anyone else.

>>83879466

Such an awesome scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS3uXgGGPPE

>>83879466
>That's what all that speech about godhood on the rooftop was about. Lex wasn't calling Superman a god, like some people here believe. Lex doesn't believe in a God or gods or whatever. He just said all that shit to prove that the very concept of a god is a tribal thing. Shit people made up to justify their own self-importance and hate for their neighbors. That humans are tribal by nature. We only care for our shit, fuck everyone else. And that Superman is like that as well. He only cares for Lois. That's how Lex found Superman's secret identity. That's how Lex managed to bait Superman to that African massacre. Lex knew he would find out and he did find out that one special lady Superman cared more above everyone else. Because Superman's selfish like everyone in the world. And now Superman again would prove his selfishness by offing someone to protect his shit on Lex say so. Lex would have a false god bend to his will and Superman would do it. Because he's not better than anyone else.
This is a way better speech than the one Lex actually gave.

>>83874642
um... his acting is goat, but it's not the Lex we
know from comics

>tfw they could have just remade The dark Knight returns with just a few minor adjustments and it would have been a hit

>>83879466
GOOD POST

I'll admit i never made that connection

>>83878447
So you're willing to believe that the guy that's been lying to and manipulating everyone the entire movie chooses to be truthful at that point because . . .

>>83879493
this is my only real argument against eisenjew lex... it doesn't quite seem right

Lex is an intellectual powerhouse who doesn't physically intimidate but is capable of making superman shit his pants. Someone who is neurotic but calm and charismatic and charming as fuck

I dont care what you cucls say, he simply isn't my lex

>>83879466
I can see how this would be completely spot on however it breaks down when you again take a step back and look at how snyder is casting superman in both films as a god. What's the point of all the religious symbolism in the movie if this interpretation is right?

>>83879592
Isn't lex literally talking to himself in that scene? Not much reason for him to lie about his intentions in that scene.

>>83878855
Not only that, a "woke" Bruce would be the only other guy on the planet capable of filling the role that Lex envisioned for himself - the founder and financial backer of the League.

>>83878917
>Nobody thought this through

Certainly not you.

>>83879558

Yes, Lex problem in the movie is how the people believed Superman to be a god or guardian angel.

Lex himself in the movie try to pass off an image of one of those new age Silicon Valley type tycoons that try to fool the public that they care for them, social justice, the world, all that shit, so you'll buy their products. His father and himself made out a life of fooling the suckers that they care about them or the world. So Lex deep down believe that there's no good or altruistic man in the world. No man is good. The only ones that are believed to be good by the public are the ones that managed to suck the fools because it suits them. Like Lex.

So Superman being held up by the public as this guardian angel, as this being that came from another world to save us, as this benevolent God... well, that just fucking piss Lex off. So throughout the whole movie he wants to portray Superman as callous and uncaring being that only cares about his shit. He killed a bunch of niggers because they dared to touch his woman. He let a room full of people go up in flames and did nothing all because they dared to call him out. And finally Lex was going to Superman himself what a fraud he really was. He was also going to prove who was the real master of the gym by forcing Superman bend to his will.

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>>83872664
Wrong.

>>83872947
>He's got Darksied's backing
So?

>>83878107
It's not all that hard to understand. It was just unexpected is all. I've used this analogy before, but if you watched a horror movie under the impression that it was a romantic comedy, it's not the film's fault if you stubbornly refuse to look at it from a more appropriate angle.

This isn't a dumb blockbuster. It's an honest-to-God love letter to long-time fans of these characters where their personalities aren't just painted on. They're more like characters from a drama or a thriller or even a sci-fi film. In other words, they're not treating the character or the plot like it's some nonexistent genre called "capeshit."

In all honesty, that's the *real* genre, in my opinion - blockbuster, something designed to appeal to the broadest possible audience with the simplest, most straight-forward of character motivations and plots, and borrowing from the tropes and conventions of other actual genres like fantasy, action, sci-fi, etc.

Independence Day is a fun movie, but I would never in my wildest dreams think of it as anything other than just pure blockbuster.

>>83879638

That's where the misconception comes from. Snyder doesn't try to portray Superman as a god in the movies because his Superman is constantly riddled with self-doubt and can't do everything by himself. He fails many times too.

What Snyder tried to do was portray how the WORLD and its PEOPLE saw and held up Superman as a GOD. Because that's what would happen if a being like Superman existed in our world. That's were all the problems in the movie start. People either worship, demonize or deny Superman for his apparent godhood. And Superman himself have a hard time dealing with all of this.

This is why people only started to respect Superman after his death. Because now he's not anymore this other being, this weird creature of speculation, this out of world shit that people have a hard time understanding or connecting with. Now Superman is real thing, a human thing. Superman has been humanized.

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>Doomsday was Lex ALEXANDER Luthor cutting the Gordian Knot

>>83878827
He'd also set Clark up to look like he was pursuing a personal beef against the Batman. When the authorities would have come around questioning people as to why they thought Clark might have ripped Bruce's head off, his acquaintances would have been pretty much forced to say, "Well, he kept wanting to publish articles calling Wayne out for his brutality and vigilantism, so yeah, you could say he harbored some ill will against the guy,"

Makes him look even worse, like some kind of sore loser who got pissed off when he didn't get his way and went postal on a guy for it.

>>83879491

I just made what Lex rambled about more explicit. Lex was just being a verbose little shit.

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>>83879169
This.

Lex made two miscalculations - he underestimated Clark's humanity and compassion and he overestimated Bruce's obsession with vengeance.

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>>83880002
>>83879907
>>83879875
>>83879770

>>83879907
I think that the film's biggest problem was how cluttered it was. Lex vs Supes against the backdrop of humanity beginning to worship him against Superman's own wishes would have been a solid film. A film about Batman (partially) recovering his lost smile and sense of justice as he investigates Lex would have been a solid film. Trying to mix the two plotlines together left everything feeling very cluttered, especially when also trying to integrate in WW, Darkseid, the Flash, and the whole greater DCEU at once. Too much going on for one film.

Plus, they really should have toned it down with the god damned explicit bibilical references in the dialogue. Literally everyone understands that Superman is a Jesus allegory. No need to keep browbeating the audience with it. Furthermore, making every other sentence a reference to Revelations or some shit actually hurt the clarity of a lot of the film's messages -- like trying to understand what the fuck a kid who's got his eye permanently glued to a thesaurus is trying to say. It's an odd case of the writing trying so hard to say DO YOU GET THESE REFERENCES YET, GUYS?? that the actual point of making those references becomes lost in the effort.

>>83879907

Fuck, when Superman goes to fight Doomsday knowing very well he could die and making peace of it, he said to Lois that our world was his world, that she was his world. Superman was making obvious the feeling that he finally was one of us by doing just that.

>>83872504
Let Banesday crush the planet with no survivors, that's his plan.

He wouldn't have released Doomsday then.

>>83880104
DAMMIT! now i gotta go fap.

>>83880104
Is Cavill a good Superman?

>>83872504
>Complains about daddies fist and abomination
>Gets saved by Superman from a fist of an abominaition

>>83879486
It really is. I smile whenever I hear Lex's theme crescendo, because I know that the kino is coming.

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>>83880002
>>83879907
>>83879875
Absolute kinoposts.

>>83880163
if by good you mean do most guys wanna suck his dick dry then yes, he is.

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>>83874642
So much fucking this.

>>83879933
why are DCucks so fucking full of themselves?

just because your capeshit references history or mythology doesn't mean it's deep or well-written

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>>83880238
Pictured; the actual state of marlels

>>83880109

>I think that the film's biggest problem was how cluttered it was. Lex vs Supes against the backdrop of humanity beginning to worship him against Superman's own wishes would have been a solid film.

The movie was actually going to be about that at first. It was going to be MoS 2. Then WB started to push for Batman to be in it. Snyder OK'd, but asked to make the movie bigger. Then WB started to push for Justice League bait. Snyder OK'd if he could at least had the final say on the movie length.

Then WB forced the movie to go down to a normal movie length because otherwise they'd lose ticket sales, when previously they had promised Snyder a 3 hours and half long movie. They even had an editor behind Snyder's back edit the movie.

Not even the Ultimate Edition is as big as Snyder hoped it to be.

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>>83880238
religion and mythology are the entire basis of existence, art that emphasizes that should be celebrated

>MARTHA was such a retarded asspull that even super genius Lex couldn't anticipate it

>>83879907
So all of the religious symbolism was supposed to show us how the general population sees him? I have to say i'm kind of skeptical that this is intentional on Snyders part in both man of steel and BVS. Don't get me wrong, Watchmen proved to me that Snyder can have an eye for detail but the rest of his movies make me question if it was anything other than a fluke.

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>>83879466
This really is a great post. Bravo, DCbro.

I do take issue with one thing, though: I think that Lex might have actually found out that "gods" really are a thing, but that they're just as tribal as he says they are. I think that's part of what he found out from the Kryptonian database - that all the things the modern day takes as being just myths and legends are actually real, that metahumans didn't inspire the "myths," they are echoes of them.

Time will tell, though, I'm excited to find out either way.

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>>83880383
the point of the religious symbolism, among many other things, is to establish the idea of superheroes as modern mythology. i think snyder and terrio are basically saying, "hey, these guys are the modern equivalent of the Greek pantheon, it's time we take them a little more seriously."

>>83875683
>Was Batman standing in the rain for 7hrs waiting for Superman to show up? that's gotta be some commitment

That does fit his character tbf

>>83879662
He's looking directly at Clark when he says that. "If man won't kill God, then the Devil will do it."

>>83880314
It's just that whenever posts like

>>83880002
>>83879907
>>83879875
>>83879770

try to summarize BvS they make it sound really good, but when you actually watch the film it's shit. So I have to conclude that they had some solid ideas in making the film, but utterly failed at presenting them. Part of that is executive meddling in trying to force too much into the movie, and my personal feeling is that another big part of it is that the dialogue (particularly Lex's dialogue) is total garbage.

>>83880314
Actually Snyder wanted to hint at Batman v Superman with MoS' ending teasing Wayne Manor receiving Kryptonite. I think it's something he wanted to do for some time.

But it's true that the studios wanted their cake and eat it too. They asked Snyder to make it the start to Justice League and include all the members and Snyder complied with the intention of making it a three-hour film. And then the studio decided to cut ton of crucial scenes, leaving the Justice League material for sequels but cutting essential establishing shots and exposition instead. The Ultimate Cut is definitely the standard intended cut of BvS.

And of course, it was Snyder that took all fire, not the suits that basically backstabbed him. I honestly don't understand how the poor guy can even cope with all this. He's stronger than most.

>>83880320
>trees in a graveyard? it's SYMBOLISM

>>83880487
You are not writing anything. Past expressing an opinion, your post is empty. Whereas the posts you reply to are convincingly building arguments to their feelings. This is why you're considered second-rate shitposter. It's actually much, much harder to defend a film than it is to attack it and you're still coming short every time.

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>>83880383

Every time Superman is seen in a Jesus pose or whatever you can see that he's not alone. Someone else is watching Superman.

For example in MoS. Remember this scene? This is the scene that people often complain about when they talk about the forced Christian allegories in the movie.

Well, in this scene Superman was in a church talking with a priest about what he should do. The camera is showing Superman from the POV of the priest. It is the priest seeing Superman as a Christ-like figure after convincing Superman to do a leap of faith and trust in humanity unconditionally.

You can see the scene again bellow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4teJPCcJSQ0

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>>83879907
I am so proud of you.

The Lord's light shineth upon thee.

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>>83879933

>>83880426
But then there's a disconnect. On one hand you're saying that Snyder is trying to portray a world where batman isn't a god among men. On the other hand you're saying that these characters are equivalent to the Greek pantheon which started as literal gods in a real religion.

You can't have it both ways where you say "Of course superman isn't a god" and then say "but he should be culturally treated as seriously as the gods of old religions."

>>83880629

You're talking with different anons, anon.

>>83880629
>On one hand you're saying that Snyder is trying to portray a world where superman***** isn't a god among men.

>>83880544
My argument is that the dialogue in BvS spends so much time making references to external material that it fails to explain itself properly. Sure, after you go home and look up all the shit it was referencing it makes sense, but that doesn't change the fact that unless you had one of those fancy Google Glasses rigs running searches in real time to supply you the meaning of these references on your HUD as you watch the film, a whole lot will remain mysterious. Again, it's the difference between stating an argument in your own words, and making the entirety of your argument be references to the hot new philosophy textbook your english teacher told you to read. The latter is babby's first argumentative error, by the way.

>>83880612
tally up another quality /tv/ post.

i seriously hope you get permabanned

>>83880666
Well fuck me then.

>>83880619
>Alexander was a psychopathic killer
lol

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>>83880116
And it was fucking beautiful.

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>>83880550
Snyder puts the most vilified religion in media and glorifies it. People can't cope seeing these images because they've been conditioned by media to reject Christianity. See how in the ending of Logan, she twists the cross into an X instead. This is what people have been conditioned to clap to. Not the vice versa. Not when the X is tilted into a cross. They don't mind when Superman is likened to Helios or Ra. But when it's Jesus, then God save us all.

>>83872504
He already knew that Batman wouldn't kill Superman because he was aware that their mothers had the same name.

>>83880735
>christianity
>most vilified religion in the media
ebin

>>83880734
The writing and acting in this scene were so bad that I burst out laughing in the theater.

>>83880685
>that it fails to explain itself properly.
This is where you're completely wrong because as you can see by this thread, ton of people understood it.

And also, you're basically trying to downplay the meaning of repeat viewings, something kings like Kubrick were huge supporters of. You don't need to look at "external material" (whatever that means). You merely need to possess a sense of thinking. It's hard for some. Especially hard for the audience conditioned into accepting Avengers as a good film. But it can still happen.

>>83880735
>See how in the ending of Logan, she twists the cross into an X instead. This is what people have been conditioned to clap to. Not the vice versa. Not when the X is tilted into a cross
I don't think you got the point of the scene. It wasn't supposed to be some "fuck you" to Christianity. It was about showing that in spite of everything Wolverine never stopped being an x-man fighting to help mutants.

>>83880698
>>83880666

Yeah. I believe that the movie only showed Superman in a Christ-like way when interacting with "normal people" to purposely confuse the audience. Kinda wanting to make you see him the way the people in the movies universe sees him. While the story itself, at leas Clark struggle, show you that he's far from anything of a god.

That anon think that the movie showed Superman in Christ-like manners and in other mythical ways, along with maybe other heroes, to show these beings are the myths made real. Or something like that.

I don't know if i agree. If that were the case you could make an argument that Lex is really the modern day Prometheus.

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>>83880163
He is.

When he lands next to Bruce and says "Did you find the spear?" his accent is perfect. I had zero problem believing this Brit was a Midwestern farm boy. It's flawless. It doesn't hurt that he looks like a living god, either.

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>>83880210
His faithful will never desert him.

>>83874642
shitty acting and shitty philosophy.

>>83880800
>tons of people understand the film over a year after it was released and after people have had the time to deconstruct it to their heart's content
Huh, you don't say? What a shocker.

>whatever "external material" means
You must be joking. Furthermore, repeat viewings are not meant to be required to be able to understand basic character motivations or other fundamental components of the film. Repeat viewings are meant to capture subtleties like pic in >>83880320. If your argument is "dude BvS is a great movie! I had to watch it 3 times until I understood why Lex was so asshurt!" the movie failed to convey Lex's motivations properly.

Snyder is the Hollywood version of That Guy who thinks that the amount of syllables in your words directly corresponds to how intelligent your argument is, and so he and all the other similarly shallow people jerk each other off over their word count because they think that it's an adequate substitute for substance. In much a similar way, making every 3rd line of your dialogue DUDE NEW TESTAMENT LMAO or DUDE FAUST LMAO is not a replacement for clearly-explained character motivations.

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>>83873746
>>83875683
Not to mention HOW DID HE EVEN KNOW THE BATSIGNAL WAS BATMAN CHALLENGING SUPERMAN TO A FIGHT?!

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A movie that reminds me a lot of MoS and BvS, was the Hercules movie with The Rock. It pretty much tried to do the same thing.

It had Hercules being worshiped as a mythical hero and when it truth Hercules was just a normal guy banking on his infamous popularity as a demigod and hero, this up to the very moment where he started to believe his own hype in order to save the day.

Cool movie.

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>>83880383
Here's one of the more subtle ones, or maybe subtle is the wrong word - less familiar.

There's tons of iconography associated with Superman that's not specifically Christian in nature.

God-making, worship, and false gods are running motifs that stretch all the way back to the opening scenes of Man of Steel, where we find out via Zod that their genetics program has become more than mere science to the Kryptonians.

>>83880883
>his acting is good because his accent convinced me
fucking lmao

>I had zero problem believing this Brit was a Midwestern farm boy
His accent wasn't convincing at all. It was barely better than Christian Bale's in the Dark Knight films.

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>>83878133
great master plan or the greatest master plan?

>>83881080

Yup, In Krypton their science and culture, which was entirely based on their science, had basically become a religion. Zod called Jor's baby an abomination, all because Kal had been made the old way, as in dick in the vag, and not through their weird eugenics program. Hell, the very fact that Jor had dicked and cummed inside his wife was sacrilegious to Zod.

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>>83880829
yeah I don't know, but if you read this interview

https://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016/03/11/inside-chris-terrios-vision-for-batman-superman-and-justice-league/

you get the idea that they're at least in some aspect trying to argue the superheroes-as-gods idea.

my own view of the christ symbolism is to show clark trying to actively live up to the expectations humanity has thrust upon him. so it's not so simple as "superman = jesus," it's more like clark kent struggling to fulfill the role the world as thrust upon him as a savior. and to some extent the film is critical of humanity for trying to push that role onto superman, while still showing that as a good and noble person, clark tries to live up to it.

https://youtu.be/7p5-14rjWUM?t=31m45s

at 31:45 this guy explains the symbolism, at least how he sees it. i'm not sure which answer is right.

>>83878203
kek

>>83880810
You're closer than the other guy but wolverine definitely wasn't an Xman. It was more about the girl acknowledging the xmen as a concept and ideal.

wait what the fuck this board actually unironically likes this movie lmao what

>>83881199
Mouseshill SEETHING

>>83881137
>when you use an obnoxious ugly font that makes your message unreadable
But it's unique, just like Snyder's movies!

>>83878269
Except he is shown explicitly raping the unnamed Senator with candy, and we cut to him happily getting access to the ship in like his 3 scene in the movie. All we'd seen of him was a monologue about why we need to be prepared to kill monsters, then candy rape, then he's hacking the ship. Then he's back to talking about space monsters and everything else.

It's all fucked. There's little support in the theatrical cut that would put forth the idea that getting access to the ship wasn't his primary objective in the first act.

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>>83880629
That's not really what I believe.

The imagery is specifically there to tell the audience when the people of their world are looking at Superman and seeing something more than just a hero. Furthermore, I think that it's actually a building plot point that mankind's beliefs can actually be harnessed by those with the technology or nature to do so.

Clark isn't a god. Worship means zero to him. That's not true of all the players on the stage, though. I personally believe that that's part of why Ares, an actual god, is content to manipulate mankind from the shadows. It may be that becoming a focal point for mankind's beliefs is actually dangerous, like maybe it gets you noticed.

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>>83881137
>that pic
>comic sans
>bvs is a good example of good "visual aspects of a visual medium"
>people didn't like bvs because it didn't have quips
>muh storytelling through symbols
>"people who watch films as a hobby don't know what they're talking about"
I can't stop laughing

>>83881199
Snydershills are the most advanced of internet trolls

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>>83878538
Yeah I'm sure the Snyders where totally considering this shit. And that whole sequence wasn't just a fucking half-thought tease that they added at the last minute. It was Lex that thought it'd be cool for them to have dope logos. Definitely not Zack.

>>83881236
>>83881282
go back to NYTimes

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>>83881080
the religious themes are REALLY FUCKING OBVIOUS in MoS and BvS and aren't appropriate at all

>>83881235
>bvs is good because marvel is bad
not an argument

>>83881282
I'm sure you're laughing. After all, why wouldn't you after spending 10 hours getting shut the fuck down only to back track each time into a reaction image.

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>>83881080
>Here's one of the more subtle ones

holy fuck summer is here

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>>83881264
>But will they be coming for you... or you... OR YOU?

>>83872969
This would be a victory in his mind.

>>83881357
>after spending 10 hours getting shut the fuck down
lolwut

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>>83881039
He was spying on Bruce, too.

Mouseshills make bait thread that backfire immensely and now they're trying to shitpost the thread to death with one word reaction image posts.

THIS HAPPENS EVERY TIME. EXACT SAME SHITPOSTERS EVERY TIME.

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>>83880320
>when corporate pandering to religious plebs actually works because christianfags are so unbelievably stupid

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/superman-or-jesus-u-s-megachurches-fuel-box-office-success-by-sending-congregations-to-man-of-steel

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>>83881235
>implying i like marvel
you're an idiot if you think any superhero movie is anything more than blockbuster entertaining

>>83880829
>>83881042
>>83881080
>>83881137
>>83881135

Basically all of that. The argument the movies try to make is that all that religious and mythical shit that humanity came to believe over time and still hold in some way or another used to be mundane shit. Take Wonder Woman. She's a demigoddess in way. She existed. She's mundane as you and me. Not really, but you understand what i'm trying to get at. She's real and thus an everyday occurrence. What can make her special, what can make her mythical, legendary, is how people regard her.

Just like Superman. Superman is a real person with problems and doubts as real and mundane as yours and mine. Buuut people regard him to be a guardian angel, or a benevolent god, or a demon, or whatever the fuck else, and so that's how he's viewed by them. Batman believed Superman to be an uncaring alien and that's how he viewed him and that's the kind of view he absorbed by the news.

Take Batman. Batman himself is thought of to be a demon, or a monster, so that's how he's presented in the movie when interacting with the normal people of Gotham. The movie show him being creepy as fuck when interacting with others.

Basically, the movie plays with how the people of the world see these characters. They attribute these characters with divine qualities or demonic qualities, or none of it in some cases. It all depends on the eye of the beholder. Even Lex can be seen as a modern day Prometheus or as the Frankenstein's Doctor who... is Frankenstein, but whatever. You got it.

>>83881419
see >>83881335

>>83881419
>stop criticizing DC! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>83881306
How's your edit coming along?

>>83881392
Yeah nah
>He is the most smart man on earth and want to be seen as such
>Except now he's acting stupid

>>83881441
Attempt to reduce a genre into MCU's low standards is classic MCUck tactics.

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>>83881404
>HE WAS ONLY AIMING AT THE SUSPENSION YOU GUYS. IT WAS AN ACCIDENT THAT HE SHOT THEM ALL WITH THE MACHINE GUN AND EXPLODED THEM. IT'S NOT BAD BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS BATMAN IS ALL ABOUT ACCIDENTALLY KILLING PEOPLE WITH MACHINE GUNS.

>>83875425

Superman is a god considering all his powers.

Lex states that he cannot be all powerful if he is all good. He dies to doomsday trying to ultimately do what is right, showing to Lex Luthor and the rest of the world that Superman is not an all powerful god.

>>83881137
this image is unironically the worst thing ive ever seen and you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself for posting it

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>>83881445
Here's Bruce sort of coming into focus as Hades. There's an even more overt one in the JL trailer.

>>83881318

>and aren't appropriate at all

Why?

>>83881456
It isn't. Likely never happen unless there's some useable shit in Justice League. Otherwise it'd just be like a 22 minute short.

>>83872504
"This is how it all caves in, civilization on the wane, manners out the window."

Lex knows that Bruce is Batman. Mindblowing innit?

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>>83879835
That's a fucking cop out you know very well Darkseid is more powerful than Doomsday in most iterations and has feats Doomsday can't even dream of touching, DC just has 70 writers all on different pages

>>83881478
reading comprehension
also
>MCUck
underage, leave immediately

>>83881460
Considering his beef with Superman, someone who just wants to help, and that he thinks he's justified in his distrust of him while believing he's the good guy in the scenario, doesn't make him seem intelligent though.

At least General Ross has a reason to be distrustful of Bruce Banner.

>>83881445
>What can make her special, what can make her mythical, legendary, is how people regard her.
wew, what a retard

A person's action matter far more than what people think of them. People remember Alexander the Great today but everyone who wasn't Macedonian hated him when he was alive.

Snyder Superman is shit because he hasn't done anything except genocide an entire city stopping an attack that he brought upon Earth himself. Every time he "saves" someone (in one of those scenes in BvS put there specifically to allay complaints from Mos) it looks like he's passing a kidney stone

He's unironically the worst written hero in the last 20 years of comic book flicks. He's even worse than fucking green lantern

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>>83881516
What a tragic loss to the art world. Shame to see you pussy out like that. We had such faith in you.

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>>83881487
This pic never fails to make me laugh.

Of all the cancer that's come out of this website, the furries, the pedos, the stormfrontfags and trump supporters, etc. The Snyder defense force is the most heinous.

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>every single thread

>>83881092
>obvious bait

>>83881571
>Superman is shit because he hasn't done anything except genocide an entire city
Damn imagine being so buttblasted you still spout this horse shit with a straight face

>>83881531
as if it wasn't perfectly obvious during that party scene when all three of them are there

>>83881571

Shut up, man. If you're just complain about NOT MUH instead of contributing something to discussion just keep it to yourself. We're tried of the same cry over and over again.

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MCUcks are out in full force today

Sorry guys, hating Snyder won't make MCU movies goods, God not exist, or Hillary Clinton president

>>83881647
Most people literally didn't pick that up.

>>83881626
Why didn't he grab the machine and throw it into space?

Why didn't he grab Zod and throw him into space?

Why didn't he just keep punching Doomsday into space forever?

>>83881507
it's capeshit schlock with renaissance religious imagery 101 awkwardly shoved into as many frames as possible. Because Zack is only capable of ripping off images, and couldn't be fucked to read anything other than the cover of TDKReturns.

The only people that are impressed by belligerent religious """"subtext"""" in a fucking near-incomprehensible movie about Superman pouting are edgy faggot kids. It's self-important, iamverysmart, lacking in basic self-awareness, and fucking dumb and obvious and cliched.

>>83881613
find one good reason to defend Cavil's acting in these films

I'll wait

>>83881663
lol what a coincidence that Trump cultists and Snyder apologists are the same people.

What is it about idiot narcissists that you find so appealing?

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>>83881680

>and fucking dumb and obvious and cliched.

But before people were saying the movie wasn't clear enough.

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Is he laughing about the death of Superman or the death of Heath Ledger?

>>83881626
Day in and day out, no less. Never altering - perfectly stagnant.

The fans opinions and perceptions have changed as they understood more and more about what they were seeing and what the themes really are. Buttblasted pajeets and pakis still clinging onto their scripts like grim death.

I hope that's what it is - a script, that is, because if there really are people this dense in the world, I weep for the future.

>>83881677
This is the power of Marvel Pajeet brainpower

>>83881658
Do you have any actual rebuttals or are you going to just continue crying, Snyder shill?

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>>83881730
You tell me.

>>83881663
>they think BvS is bad so they must like marvel
dummy

>>83881782
Where did all the Evansfaces go?

>>83881748
>"I have no answer because deep down I know that these movies are retarded but am too proud to admit it after wasting hundreds of hours of my life defending them"
>"I know! I'll call him a marvel shill, thereby removing the necessity to form a coherent rebuttal!

>>83881567
Well ,considering he's like a child making a psychological regression I can give that

>>83881804
Deleted as penance for being wrong about gal gadot

>>83873099
No.
Luthor is lawful evil when joker its chaotic evil.

Luthor would never do something bad that would fuck him up too, well, unless he is certain of the only way of winning its a tie.

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>>83881723
It isn't "clear enough" m8. Endlessly making religious parallels in a fucking movie about a space alien fighting a billionaire ninja doesn't make the movie well written or coherent. The only thing that was obvious in the movie was the fucking SUBTEXT. The narrative was waffling and retarded. Nothing that any characters did made sense as they did them, and only ever make sense when you apply heavy doses of head canon or deleted scenes. The movie abso fucking lutely was not clear enough.

Snyder can't direct a coherent movie considering the whole gestalt. The movie is a convoluted self important mess and the only thing that was unambiguously clear was that Zack really likes famous religious imagery.

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>>83881711
His conversation with his mom - every last one of them. My personal favorite is the one right after he gets back from the Arctic.

>"I'm not going anywhere, Ma. I promise."

>>83880762
It literally is though. Jews get no flak and every time a muslim blows something up people in the media flock to defend it (from christian criticism) nearly everywhere but some fox news people, one station out of thousands. And then you have netflix making these documentaries about some catholic molesters but have they ever brought up the founder of islam raping a 9 year old girl in any of their shows? Atheism is the default religion, every character in every show now is assumed to be atheist. Sometimes a weird side character might ask the protag if he believes in God, and 9/10 times he just smirks back. Hinduism, Buddhism and other eastern religions are almost always praised whenever they are brought up as some kind of enlightenment thing, never mind all of the conflict in south east asia that comes from their religious problems. If you want to make a show about religion being dumb or evil, you make a show about white christians and their silly family and how unprogressive it is to be against the gays. Also go back to lereddit

>>83881833
>Luthor is lawful evil
canon Luthor is. DCEU Luthor absolutely is not.

>>83881861
Imagine being literally too dumb to understand BvS.

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>>83881721
I hate Trump and love Snyder.

Checkmate, atheists.

>>83879933

In the movie we see the museum curator talking to Diana and he says this "Perfectly in keeping with a king who is also a psychopathic killer...it's the sword of Alexander, it's the blade that cut the gordian knot". Now we can tie this to Lex in many ways first is that Alexander is his first name just like King Alexander who owned the sword. Second is that Lex is also a king, the king of metropolis, their golden boy who revived an old company into a tech giant and is now one of the most powerful men in the world, all this alongside the fact that he too is a psychopathic killer, he probably killed his dad and many others throughout BvS.

The gordian knot was an intricate knot that tied an ox-cart to a post and Alexander the Great tried to untie the knot one day but could not figure out the intricate knot so using his sword he cut the knot. This is a metaphor for an almost insolvable problem that can be solved by "thinking outside the box".
If you view Superman as Lex's own gordian knot you can draw even more comparisons. He is Lex's own insolvable problem that is causing him a complete existential crisis simply by existing. So Lex tries to untie the knot by setting up Africa and making it seem like Superman killed those people and also to show Superman's actions caused harm to the region once the government of Nairomi slaughtered the villagers.

>>83875724
Because criminals deserve to feel fear.

>>83881861

>The narrative was waffling and retarded. Nothing that any characters did made sense as they did them, and only ever make sense when you apply heavy doses of head canon or deleted scenes. The movie abso fucking lutely was not clear enough.

This thread proves that the movie was clear enough for some and that the characters actions made plenty of sense.

Maybe the problem is you, not the movie.

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>>83880320
I couldn't give a fuck how meaningful or metaphorical Zack went with the film he still fucked up by completely betraying how these characters should be portrayed.

>>83881898
Imagine being literally too dumb to think that corny bible symbolism salvages an utter train wreck excuse for a film

>>83881919

CONT

Lex also hired the actress to shift the narrative to Superman rather than the USA's own involvement in the region seeing as they support the government that slaughtered villagers and also to shift the blame for the burnt people on him. Then with the kryptonite if Lex could get the government to give him an import license then he had won because the government has now agreed on a Kryptonian deterrent meaning that they will keep Superman under their ruling and the public would know A that Superman is not all powerful as the government is now bearing kryptonite and B that there is reason to be wary of Superman because the government made an anti-Supes weapon. After this failed Lex tried to use batman to kill Superman to send the message that A supes isn't all powerful as he was killed and B to send the message to all the other metahumans that if they come out of the shadows humanity will reject them and kill them. All of this was Lex's honest try at untying the knot but this all changed when he entered the Kryptonian ship.

Inside the scout ship Lex found this very own sword of Alexander, in the form of Doomsday now Lex could cut the knot. Doomsday simply by existing can give the message to the world that power is not innocent and doomsday represents true power not superman. Doomsday killing Superman was Lex's cutting of the knot because he found a shortcut that was "outside of the box" and achieved the desired outcome

>>83881571
You have no argument. You never have.

You are an actual shitstain of a human being. That is all the argument I or anyone else will ever need.

Can somebody please explain to me why doesn't Superman take away Batman's Kryptonite Grenade Launcher and throw it away after almost succumbing to a single kryptonite gas grenade?

He thought Bats only had one grenade?

>>83881919
see >>83880717

>>83881927
Stick to poop jokes and PacMan references you overgrown child.

>>83879933
>>83881919
>>83881950

Also don't forget what Bruce says to Diana about the sword - it was a forgery and the real one was hanging in the bed of sultan

Much like Doomsday, They are both copies, forgeries, fakes, CLONES.

>>83881898
kek. I remember being a teenager.

Nobody doesn't understand the """subtext""""

They don't understand how this expensive of a movie was so poorly put together.

>>83881959
see >>83881758

>>83881927

>he still fucked up by completely betraying how these characters should be portrayed.

Is there a should? I didn't knew that. Someone should tell DC with all its reboots and retcons that they're damaging their own characters by constantly changing them.

>>83881890
I'd say Neutral Evil. Luthor acts in the best interests of no one but himself. Ever.

>>83881867
>If you want to make a show about religion being dumb or evil, you make a show about white christians and their silly family and how unprogressive it is to be against the gays. Also go back to lereddit

What show is that?

>>83881996
>Stick to poop jokes
But what about piss jokes? Those are the true kino, after all.

>>83881922
>This thread proves that the movie was clear enough for some and that the characters actions made plenty of sense.
So? There are people who extrapolate pages and pages of meaning from a painting of a black square on a white background. Just because everybody's shoehorning in their own theories about the nuanced themes of this movie doesn't mean that it has a deep meaning.

>>83881977
Why were neither of them serious about killing each other throughout the fight?

If Superman really wanted Batman's help to find his mother, why did he lose control after just two hits from Batman and fight him anyways?

>>83882007
doomsday isn't a clone, it's a reincarnated mutation of a dead old kryptonian

you clearly have no idea what they fuck you're talking about

>>83882063
It wasn't a joke. But seriously if you thought that, then marvel is perfect for you. Tons of poopy jokes and meme offs for you to clap your shitstained hands at.

>>83882069
No anon it's just you being a fucking retard outsmarted by fucking BvS.

>>83881935
Imagine talking big about your own "fan" edit of a film but lacking the skill, creativity, or drive to even see *that* project through.

>>83882069
What I don't understand is even if all the "meaningful subtext" was real, how does it make the film good? The acting, writing, story, characters, visuals, direction, pretty much everything was dogshit.

>>83882098
>why did he lose control after just two hits from Batman and fight him anyways
That bothered me too, but that can be explained as Supes showing his humanity by being a massively flawed guy. But the part with the grenade launcher is the one that seems outright stupid.

>>83881898
there's a difference between not getting a film and the film just being actually bad. BvS can cram as much muh christian symbolism into the film as it wants, that doesn't automatically make the film good.

>>83882167
>Imagine talking big about your own "fan" edit of a film
the fuck are you even talking about m8?
did you reply to the wrong post?

>>83879466
>We only care for our shit, fuck everyone else. And that Superman is like that as well. He only cares for Lois.
See that's the problem with Superman in these movies, he's supposed to be an example to humanity, yes he loves Lois but Superman should be portrayal as a selfless hero who wants to help others for the greater good. Clark doesn't seem to want to a hero in BvS.

Man of Steel should be Clark's journey to realising what he wants to do with his gifts; be a hero. In BvS he shouldn't be moping around caring what people think of him. Batman and Lex should both hate Superman at the start cos they believe someone all powerful can't be all good. The difference between them though is Batman realises Clark is good while Lex never accepts it and stays a villain.

>>83882010
This thread is rife with my rebuttals, shitstain, just like every thread before it stretching back for more than a year.

Go work on your fan edit. It will make you feel less impotent, at least in a figurative sense.

>>83882098

>why did he lose control after just two hits from Batman and fight him anyways?

Because Superman started to fear for his life.

Remember how when Clark was investigating Batman that woman said that man like Batman wouldn't listen to words, only fists? Superman's plan to stop Batman and make him listen was to first show Batman that he was stronger. If Superman could prove to Batman that his fists were more powerful, maybe Batman would back down and listen to reason. He had to take down Batman a peg down first.

When Batman did the very opposite by managing to make Superman weaker, Superman got scared and tried to do his hardest to show he was still stronger.

>>83873099
No. No they are not.

>>83882242
>Superman got scared and tried to do his hardest to show he was still stronger
why didn't he take away the only thing that could hurt him, grenade launcher?

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>>83882236
>ive been shilling garbage for over a year, let me tell you why you're a loser
cringe

>>83882179

You only seem to see the Christian subtext, when there are a lot more things in the movie and the Christian subtext is pretty much bait-and-switch, and ignore everything else while calling the movie bad for only being able to see the most basic thing about it.

>>83882260
Because once he got hit with the first one, it was too even a fight for him to "just" do anything?

>>83882242
>Because Superman started to fear for his life.
he lost control and started fighting long before Batman actually hurt him or used any kryptonite shit

he's like a toddler that got set off by loud noises
completely out of character for superman

>>83881922
>This thread proves that the movie was clear enough for some
Nigger I've been shitposting in BvS threads since it came out. This thread "proves" that the Snyder shills have had a year to get their messaging strategy in order.
>and that the characters actions made plenty of sense.
lol k.
>Maybe the problem is you, not the movie.
I'm not the one impotently defending a movie that, by all measurable standards, is not good. I'm not the one resorting to textbook ad hominem as a way to somehow imply that this makes the movie good.

Nobody is saying you're not allowed to enjoy bad movies. I loved Jurassic World and I fully appreciate how much of a stupid careless piece of shit movie it was. It's was like an entertaining idiot jock of a movie. I loved BvS because it's basically neckbeard: the movie. It's so clear that Zack (and the people that are impressed by his shit) was so self-satisfied about all muh religious imagery and themes in a capeshit movie. While it was also obvious that he doesn't give a wet shit about meaningful dialogue or editing.

The movie isn't bad because of the religious shit and the subtext. The movie is bad because it fails at the basic elements of filmmaking. It is incoherently edited, has no fluid pacing, wastes so much time on go nowhere plots, there are multiple plot redundancies and a cartoonish amount of blatant plot holes. The tone is so shit that they literally have to randomly edit in jump scares to keep the audience awake in the first half.

>>83878929
He was the one that blew him up. Wally had no idea he was going to die...

>>83882290
So no actual rebuttal? You're all done then?

>>83882235

>Batman and Lex should both hate Superman at the start cos they believe someone all powerful can't be all good. The difference between them though is Batman realises Clark is good while Lex never accepts it and stays a villain.

That... that's actually what happens. You aren't supposed to agree with Lex. The fuck? Lex is wrong.

>>83882236
Why would I make a "fan edit" of this retarded ass film?

Do you have genuine paranoia and think every anonymous person you talk to is the same dude out to get you or something?

>>83882339
not the same guy you were arguing with. just popping in to make some epic memes about you!

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>306 replies
>Snyder shills have yet to answer the OP's question

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>>83882354
lol he thinks everyone that shitposts BvS is me.

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>>83882318
FAN EDIT

Tell us that good one again about how Superman's "LITERALLY ALWAYS BEEN JESUS."

Or that other old chestnut about how Bruce is deliberately firing into the passenger compartments of the other cars in the chase. Oh wait, I forgot, that's irrelevant because you're cutting it from your FAN EDIT.

You're such a fucking sad excuse for a human being.

>>83882311
>Because once he got hit with the first one, it was too even a fight
But it wasn't, there's a moment where he clearly shrugs off the effects of the grenade, Bats even does the "oh shit" look. I think Clark throws him through a wall or something, it's clear at that moment he has the upper hand. Then after some one-sided beatdown Bats loads another grenade, Clark realizes "oh shit I fucked up" but he fails to do anything to stop Batman at that point.

But there's a moment in the fight where Bats is powerless and Clark is aware of the grenades. And he doesn't act. It's a bit stupid.

>>83879486
>MOTHER OF GOD
Is this the most accurate portrayal of sperg humor in kino yet?

>>83882345
I get that but they go about it in such a shit way. How the fight actually starts and how Batman's and Superman's differences are resolved is fucking retarded.

>>83882318

>a cartoonish amount of blatant plot holes.

Point them out, please.

Also, what the subtexts were? You know, since you seem to have easily understood the movie.

>>83882408
Yeah, he does do that. Flies them through the floor, then throws Bruce through the wall, then tries to fly again but discovers he can't.

>>83882439
see >>83878133

>>83882471

Things that have been answered many times before and aren't plotholes at all? Yeah.

>>83882471
see
>>83878191
>>83878297

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>>83882398
>Tell us that good one again about how Superman's "LITERALLY ALWAYS BEEN JESUS."
I think it's funny that you remember thinks I've said better than I do. Why don't you tell me?
>Or that other old chestnut about how Bruce is deliberately firing into the passenger compartments of the other cars in the chase. Oh wait, I forgot, that's irrelevant because you're cutting it from your FAN EDIT.
Wouldn't call it a fan edit. Also wouldn't call it something that I'm doing. Did it last summer as a project to get better at writing paper edits, and to study an overwhelmingly flawed movie so as to better understand what makes good movies good.

Sorry that the movie you shill for is so bad it merits study. Not sure how you think that hurts me though, or how you're supporting your argument that BvS isn't a bad movie. Seems pretty clear to me that desperately making personal attacks is something a person would do when they don't have an argument.
>You're such a fucking sad excuse for a human being.
I think you're ok :)

>>83882456
>throws Bruce through the wall
instead of doing that he should've taken away the grenades

they're right there! just rip them off and throw them far away! you can do it Supes! they're the only thing that can hurt you!

>>83882527
that's not even my post or image so if you've got some answers to it I'd love to see them

then again I doubt you do

>>83882045
Impastor, The Keepers, The Handmaid's Tale, Lucifer, Rick and Morty, Bojak Horseman and all of those degenerate animated filth, The Colbert Report, The Tonight Show, The Daily Show, All in the Family, The Goldbergs, The New Normal, Sens8, Orange is the New Black, The Real O'Neals, Bill Mayer Real Time, GCB, Salem, to name some recent examples.

>>83882544
I get where you're coming from, but I'm willing to chalk that up to overconfidence.

Out of curiosity rate let see your guys ratings for BvS

5.5/10

>>83882581
I don't know, how can you get overconfident when literally less than a minute away you were getting the shit kicked out of you because your enemy possesses one single thing that can render you completely harmless, worse than that, that can kill you?

I'm willing to chalk that up to bad writing, and only that.

>>83882666
I don't watch movies that I already know I won't like. I can't believe there are actually people on this board who watch shit even when they are aware of their own taste. If you spend that 2 hours of this movie and every other shit movie you've watched and read a book or learned something you would be a lot happier.

>>83882789
>>83882789
>>83882789

>>83882789

>>83882789

>>83882789

>>83882789
>>83882789
>>83882789

>>83882789

>>83882789

>>83882789

>>83882679
Well, I think he overestimated how much he'd recovered. He threw Bruce through the wall and then discovered he didn't have the strength to fly through after him.

>>83882568
I haven't seen anything of that media and I am still an atheist

>all of those degenerate animated filth
Well I see from where are you coming from

I think media make recently fun of Christianism simply because it the most spread in the western, its the guinea pig of religion,don't make it personal, the presidents still say "god bless america"

>>83882840
Even if he'd recovered fully, another grenade would throw him back into "curling on the floor" state again.

>>83882564

Sure.

Lex Luthor knowing Superman and Batman's secret identities isn't a plot-hole. Lex own the equivalent of Google/Facebook, have dealings with the military (in Suicide Squad Amanda Waller was aware that Bruce was Batman) and suspected that Superman would be selfish enough to prioritize his loved ones above all others and that through that person he could find more about Superman.

Lex's militia left no evidence of their involvement of the massacre other than the bullet that was left encased in Lois' laptop or whatever. His militia had dug the bullets out of the bodies and burned them. Even then Lois couldn't use the bullet she had as proof of anything because it would implicate the military involvement in the region's conflict.

Lex got information on the meta-humans because he owns the equivalent of Google/Facebook.

His schemes to exacerbate Batman and Superman problems with one another worked somewhat even if he had to progressively push them more and more. It specially worked in regards to Batman.

Lex managed to conceal and time the explosion just right so Superman was unable to stop it. He even banked on Superman's psychology to take advantage of the fact that Superman would do his hardest to ignore the guy out of shame and guilt.

Lex knew Lois had no proof against him otherwise she wouldn't confront him directly, but ultimately his hubris fucked him in the end because he couldn't believe in Superman and Batman good-nature winning out. Or that Doomsday would turn against him. That's why he ran to secure a deal with Darkseid's lackey for some kind of power in exchange for the world.

So where are the plot-holes?

>>83882533
Not you, I assume?

https://4archive.org/board/tv/thread/69227738
>>69237254

Found it by googling "Literally always been Jesus."

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>>83882985
>His militia had dug the bullets out of the bodies and burned them

>>83883042
yeah I don't really understand what the issue is.

I said Superman has always been Jesus. He was made by WASPs as an Ubermensch character. Parallels between Superman and jesus have been drawn since his inception.

And it looks like the larger point being made was that filling a fucking Superman movie with Jesus imagery isn't some novel or innovative idea.


but yeah we can cherry pick shit from 13 months ago. My argument in that thread still stands.

>>83882985
But what's the point of giving people identifiable bullets and shells in what's supposed to be a clandestine operation?

Btw it's really easy to identify the reason of death being fire or gunshot. That's something forensic scientists are pretty good at doing. But I'm willing to let that pass, it's just a cape movie, after all.

>>83883170
>Siegel and Schuster.
>WASPs

>me ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~my fucking sides

>>83883160

They did.

>>83883226

They weren't exactly identifiable bullets, they were just new bullets on the market. Even then Lois couldn't use them as proof of Lex involvement anywhere because she could implicate the US in that shit.