Why are these guys still working for Cersei? She has no money

GRRM being a hack

nigga who gives a fuck, that's a shitty show

>>83312433
Feudal obligations and the chance of fat loot my nigga.

>>83312433
Same reason Bush got a second term.

why is every thread being ruined by posters using hip hop slang

>>83312503
Lay off the heat bro.
It 2017.

>>83312433
Power lies where people believe it lies friendo

>>83312433
free booty, of both varieties.

>>83312553
But Cersei's a woman who everyone believes is an incestuous whore. That doesn't inspire power. She might have blown up the Sept, but that's just gonna make people think she's another Aegon and hightail out of her forces.

Who is running their affairs in the Westerlands anyway?

>>83312679
Vassals? Given the nature of their Lord's death, Casterly Rock should either be pissed off or completely shattered by now.

>>83312679
Lannister cousin #234

There's like a million Lannisters running about so it's not a big deal.

>>83312650
The people and lords of the Westerlands probably don't care for the most part. They haven't suffered too much from the war and are loyal to house Lannister. Also the nobility still remember what happened to House Reyne when they rebelled against Tywin so they're probably not too motivated to try an rebel against the Lannisters any time soon.

>>83312650
What other choice do they have really? Desert and become roaming bands of thieves and mercenaries like so many others already are and then get slaughtered by the invading Dothraki hordes anyway?

>>83312759
But that was Tywin, and he's dead. Cersei doesn't carry that kind of presence that he did. Plus, kinslaying should raise at least a few of their eyebrows.

>>83312833
>But that was Tywin, and he's dead. Cersei doesn't carry that kind of presence that he did.
In the long run yes but short term people will still be under the influence of fearing Tywin despite him being dead. Considering Tywin hasn't been dead for even half a year it's not surprising open dissent hasn't set in yet.

>>83312833

Bro, Cersei seems far less forgiving and far more dangerous than Tywin was.
It's far more prudent to stay on her good side until she inevitably crashes and burns.

>>83312433
shit writing

>>83312956
So she blew a building up? Anyone can blow things up. But Tywin managed to take his weakened House and turn in into a powerful family. He didn't just command fear, he commanded respect too. How has Cersei commanded respect?

>>83313011

Tiered tax rates and generous capital gains concessions

>>83312433
The lannister name has a pretty consistent track record of coming out on top.

If you're on the wining team of all the wars of the last several hundred years, you tend to stick to it. Also fifedomes.

>>83312503
Shit, jive time turkey.

If I remember right in the books cersei is still in the slammer and Kevan is running the westerlands

Show plot makes absolutely zero fucking sense but we're used to that

>>83312433
They're not mercenaries, she's their Lady. The wastelands, under a feudal system, would be required to provide men for an army in times of war without the expectation of being paid.

>>83313976

And if you refused you would be killed as a deserter.

>>83312433
In general medieval societies require a rival claimant in the near area in order to rebel, who is there to support for the position?

>>83312490
She is better than all the alternatives?

>>83312433
It won't be long until another House or a lesser Lannister move in an try to take over. The money matter could easily be countered by paying them in unminted gold and silver instead of coins, it'll bleed the Westerland dry but this is something that can be done. Doing that will bleed the Westerland dry and this is something a savy enough character will bank on Cersei doing.

>>83312433
>bunch of savage sandnigger horsefuckers coming from overseas to pillage and rape your people
they're fighting for their lives, you think the khaalasar or whatever the fuck is not going to kill every westerosi man and boy they find and enslave, rape every woman and girl
besides with the baratheons dead cersei is the true heir regardless of her dead bastard prodigny
i would fight for cersei to desu

>>83316977
I actually cant remember the show mentioning any other vassal houses of the lannister (or in the westerlands) except maybe clegane. I only learnt from asoiaf game mods

>>83313976
Except by that logic the lannister men have been in the field for like five years none stop. No one is planting crops, no one is doing any work at home, just constant work for the lannisters without getting paid.

Don't try to rationalize this bullshit. The lannister army would be non existent if the show had any interest in presenting a believable reality.

>>83317228
>Cersei
>True heir

What the fuck are you talking about? She's a crazy bitch who blew up the most prominent place of worship in all the seven kingdoms, killing not just the Tyrells but also the equivalent of the pope and her own uncle.

No one would be following her. Remember back in season 2 when Tyrion and Varys talked about where power comes from? Well the show has tossed that out the fucking window.

>>83312455
Are there really people who are this retarded?

>>83317332
cersei is the queen mother of robert baratheons "children" and by rules of succesion she is the queen since stannis and renly are dead
it doenst matter if no one likes her the lannister men arn't fighting for her they're fighting for their lives

>>83317251
It really doesn't make sense to me that the Westerlands, with more people in it that the North, would have fewer vassal houses than the Starks have. Sansa and Jon spend ages failing to get lords to join them, and they actually have a decent call to arms with he removal of the Boltons. Cersei acts like a psycho and no one bats an eye lid. I'm sure that if the show had bothered to include Lannister bannermen, every single one of them would have abandoned Cersei by now. As is, Cersei's men might as well be stormtroopers or orcs for all the difference it makes.

>>83317397
>>83317397
The throne does not revert to the dead King's wife in the event that he doesn't have heirs. Primogeniture has very strict rules. If anyone is still paying attention to these rules, then Dany is the one they would support.

And if her men think she might blow them up on a whim (why not? She killed her own uncle after all) then they are not fighting for their lives at all. This also precludes the possibility that anyone else will lead a defense against Dany, or that Dany won't be controlling the invasion tightly, or that there aren't many who would support a Targ. There is no reason to think that anyone would rally to Cersei for anything.

>>83317528
>There is no reason to think that anyone would rally to Cersei for anything
yes there is!
the sandnigger army, you seriously think the men of westeros are gonna be like hey just kill me senpai and please help your self to our women too
your fucking delusional

>>83317613
I'm sure it will be a concern for them.

But that's not the same thing as saying that everyone will rally will Cersei. More likely they would be rushing home to protect their own land. This isn't a professional army after all. There's no reason why she in particular should be Queen or in charge. Her vassals would be abandoning her. The people of KL would be running away from the city as fast as they could. In any kind of reality which the people and soldiers are actually human beings instead of faceless armies for battles sequences, Cersei would be stuck in the red keep with Jaime, Qyburn and the mountain for company. That's it.

>>83317701
if they split up their army they have allready lost

>>83317804
Which might be true, but it's also a very believable response - every lord takes his men away and tries to defend his own patch, made doubly likely by the fact that Cersei is such a bad person to get people to rally around. I'm imagining that some of the surviving lords like Tarly might try to strike a deal with a junior lannister and cut Cersei out of the loop. But more likely, Cersei's actions would have made Dany's invasion a total rollover by removing any kind of legitimacy for people to rally around.
What you don't seem to be getting is that just because the Seven kingdoms is in danger, doesn't mean that everyone will just do whatever Cerei says. She has no more claim to being in charge than any other powerful lord, so why would anyone follow her lead when the people of Westeros would see her as a crazy tyrant?.
Incidentally, the show's logic for Cersei becoming Queen was that she blew up the sept - Dany hasn't actually invaded yet.

>>83312833
Cersei blew up the Sept and took out all of her political enemies in one move. I'm pretty sure that is keep everybody pacified for the time-being. I certainly wouldn't want to be the first guy to voice his criticisms.

>>83317422
The north is bigger than all of the other territories, so people are more spread out and require more autonomy to function. So more houses with greater independence.

>>83312763
How do they know about the dothraki, and steppe nomads never unite people's
Just look at saxons fighting on both sides of Atilla, the mongols and Turks breaking up Arabic empires into statelets

>>83317337
Are there really people who don't think he is the definition of a hack?

>>83312433
What matters in GoT (and in history really, you'll see this over and over again Shakespeare also) is perceived legitimacy.
It doesn't really matter if you are any good or not, its the nature of your claim that matters.

The reason it matters is because in a feudal society, everyone else's legitimacy derives from the king's.

Its basically the underlying concept/plotline to the entire show.

>>83317528
She might not actually be the Queen (e.g., Queen Regent rather than Queen Consort, like show was, or Regnant like we are discussing).

>>83319744
This is clearly the fucking show writers, if you'd read the books you'd know that the show is weird fantasy tangent. There are characters that are still alive in the show that should have been dead before the end of the 3rd book.

>>83319829
And? I was talking about the books and show. Both are Horseshit and clearly written in the moment with no foresight or direction whatsoever.

>>83317992
There are innumerable historical examples of the army up and deserting if not outright revolting as soon as the money ran out. In fact, only a few awe-inspiring leaders (not fear-inspiring ones) were able to keep an army together without pay, like Henry V. Stop defending GRRM's historical illiteracy and Hackett for the sake of plot. If Cersei couldn't pay these troops, they'd riot in a week.

>>83319906
The OP is about an event which happens exclusively in the show though.

GRRM may be a hack, but he hasn't written anything in the books nearly as retarded (yet). I'd take a thousand food descriptions or sunsets over this trash.

>>83312759
>They haven't suffered too much from the war and are loyal to house Lannister.
This is why show watchers are retards. The westerlands have suffered plenty and in the books are a spent force. In order of fuckedness North, Riverlands, then Westerlands.

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>>83319756
It's more than the creators don't understand medieval society at all.

Even kings had to pay their troops, feudal retainers only counted for a tiny portion of their armies.

The only way around that was to levy peasants which not only generally provided shit-tier soldiers but also made the peasantry unhappy (since you were breaching your feudal obligation), leading to mass desertion, particulary during the spring and autumn, and because you'd just armed them, potentially revolt, something that your fellow nobles would be extremely unhappy about.

Arming peasantry to pad out your army because you've run out of money to pay proper troops would go down in a feudal society about as well as a politician today announcing they were going to disband the armed forces and start issuing assault rifles to off-the-boat immigrants in exchange for them defending the country.

Realistically, if Cersei has no money, she has no army, particularly since GRRM based the whole thing on the War of the Roses, where unlike earlier centuries where soldiers were executed or enslaved and nobles ransomed, rival noble families would recruit defeated enemy troops directly off the battlefield to bolster their own armies whilst executing the rival nobles. Loyalty to a particular noble family and/or the king amongst the common soldiery only extended as far as honouring your contract with them, there was no expectation for you to maintain loyalty if they weren't paying or couldn't pay (having been defeated).

He's a good fantasy writer but given his desire for 'realism' and fixing the fantasy to 'real history', he really should have at least read a book or two prior to writing.

>>83319906
so you are retarded!

>>83320162
HEY! You are too!

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>>83312490
Cersei is a war criminal - impeach now!

>>83320162
>defending a hack

>>83312763
>invading Dothraki hordes
why that alt x guy or something kind of cheered up this? And how can their terrible weapons fare against plate armour?

>>83312455
In the book Cersei is fun. Dumb and insane and gets constantly BTFO'd.
It's just the show that made her into a STRONK WOMYN.

>>83320101

>sword penetrating plate armor, chainmail, padded leather, human body and comes out from the other side

wew

>>83313970
Wow the books have been out forever and you are still behind

In the books, Cersei is out of prison and Kevan got murdered by Varys and a group of his children informants

"too many good men in service of bad causes"

>>83320101
Your knowledge on the matter is pretty limited as well. The only professional soldiers in a feudal system were the knights, men at arms and mercenaries. Standing armies became a thing only at a much, much later date.

>>83320439
>>83312763
I also don't understand where the hype for Dothraki come from.

>>83317701
Nothing unites better then an putside force

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>>83320596
>The only professional soldiers in a feudal system were the knights, men at arms and mercenaries.

Yeah, with the last two making up the bulk of medieval armies, even before the larger standing armies of the late 14th century appeared. Men-at-Arms were permenant retainers (usually) but still worked for pay, and mercenaries were mercenaries. Only the nobility fought by obligation, and even then, usually had to be lured with promise of personal enrichment via plunder or ransoms, or alternatively, viable threats to their station for failure to show up.

Both the English and French armies were predominantly made of mercenaries hired for a single campaign during the Hundred Years War, the English recruiting mainly domestically from yeomen but still on a 'fight for pay 'n' plunder' model and the French recruiting mercenaries from all over Europe.

Your average medieval soldier was far closer to what we'd describe as a private military contractor than the vocational soldier we think of in modern armies who might conceivably accept poor/irregular pay out of a belief in patriotism or loyalty to the state.

>>83317992
You're thinking of the "you keep what you kill" rule from the chronicles of Riddick.

In reality, the people of KL and even Cersei's own soldiers would be abandoning her for fear of this crazed woman who blows people up, including her own uncle.

And who's to say Cersei didn't murder Tommen and steal the throne? Everyone would be against her. This scenario is bullshit.

>>83320879
Either way, what does it matter?

If Cersei is using a professional army then they would have abandoned her long ago for non payment.

If Cersei is using a levied army then they would have abandoned her long ago to return to the fields and sew crops before winter comes.

It doesn't make sense however you look at it, and that's ignoring how everyone would react to Cersei blowing up the sept.

>>83321091
Yeah, that's what I said in my original post.

>>83319995
I didn't mention anything about pay. Just the perceived fear and presence of Cersei. These people don't see explosions at all because they don't have the technology. Cersei destroying all of the existing power structure with green fire would be pretty terrifying to the average joe and they certainly aren't going to fuck with her for a while. As for obedience, you are right of course. It only lasts for as long as their leader is providing food and money.

>>83317256
The "all the soldiers are farmers" but us what's not believable.

There are more than enough men to put a few thousand in the field *and* farm.

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>>83320101
>>83320879
>knows nothing on the subject
>rants on it anyway
like being on /pol/ or /his/

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>>83312503
i have to resort to non-English internet forums to escape the nigger slang and even then it seeps through

Bad writing. There are explanations, sure, but they take absurd levels of abstraction, which you can see in this thread.

>>83321987
he's right though.

>>83312455
In the books the Lannisters still have their wealth, them being broke is a show only invention

In the books the Westerlands are being governed by Kevan Lannister, who is actually competent, he just got assassinated in the books so we don't know how that will affect the Lannister lands, but most likely Jaime will take over, who is actually competent himself, and has actually drifted away from Cersei in the books

In the books Cersei is barely holding things together and her list of allies are growing thinner by the day, it seems unlikely that she will hold any real power anymore in the books

So personally I'm blaming the hack job mostly on the jew bros writing the show

>>83321987
who's this whore ?

>>83312907
Nah, this is medieval people, when you see blood in someone you hate you go for the neck, because life is short and brutal so you may as well go down with your enemies.

>>83321987
>is a faggot
>is a faggot
I like reading what he has to say because he has something to say, if you know better then post your shit and dominate the conversation, fag. Otherwise, kys.

>>83312433
because you're a faggot?

>>83323260
you

>>83313011
Because she da queen, yaaaa
Seriously though, hardly anybody can blow so ring up in Westeros, r u dum?

>>83313976
They get paid in food, pussy, loot, and sick Lannister gear
The bonus situation is probably pretty sweet as well

>>83312433
For the same reason Khalesi thinks the Unsullied are actually useful when they get blown the fuck out by a couple of dude with masks and knifes.
The show has shit writing.
That being said, who would win? 30 Unsullied with full gear, 10 half starved peasants with knifes and masks, the fookin' legend dual wielding two sharpened sticks or shirtless Ramsay with a puppy in his arms.

>>83312503
you buster-ass honkey

>>83323212
>So personally I'm blaming the hack job mostly on the jew bros writing the show
surprise surprise

>>83325131
Get back to work, d&d.

>>83327307
according to show cannon

Shirtless Ramsey>Fookin Legend>30 Unsullied>Masked Peasants.

the masked peasants only kill people when they surprise soldiers with their pants down. They represent an insurrection not a conventional fighting force

>>83327307
Show Unsullied are an accurate portrayal of a dickless army. The Fookin Legend and 20 good men would beat the entire Unsullied army.

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Cersei is our girl and anyone who disagrees needs to fuck off back to Red*it.

Cersei is for patricians.

Everyone is else is Red*it.

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>>83312490
>Diebold "voting machines" in key Ohio districts and the largest swing between exit polls and official results since polling began.

Freedumb!