Film Industry has gone to shit

DAE lewronggeneration?
You're right though.

You're pretty insightful for someone clearly under the age of 25.
Are you going to say something profound like "people use cell phones too much" next?

Yes, it's called the degeneration of culture. Don't believe people who say "everything stays the same! Things have always been this bad"

2014 was a good year but yeah everything besides that has been pretty shitty

We only remember good movies, in 10 years people will be looking back to 2010s with nostalgia for the better films, while ignoring all the stinkers

>>83105310
Almost everyone on this site is under 25, grandpa. Want a Jello?

With the rise of widespread broadband, the Internet has shortened the window for cultural relevancy. Avatar was probably the last truly massive blockbuster.

Culture shifts too fast for films to act as as a cultural milestone now.

Unless you mean there aren't good films being made anymore. In that case you're just being a whiny contrarian.

Went to the movies yesterday, these were the previews

>"the big sick" a heartfelt film about a pakistani man and a white women overcoming racial stereotypes im their relationship

>"megan leavey" a story about a woman marine in afghanistan with her dog

>"three billboards outside ebbing missouri" anti police film

>"atomic blondie" a lesbin spy in east berlin

>"baby driver" jon hamm and kevin spacey with some driving prodigy who is a professional get away driver (most promising of the lot)

The state of kino in 2017 is bad

the business changed. theres no money in film anymore, no dvd sales/rentals, too much pirating. its not worth it to make mid-budget drama films, its either 100 million dollar action/comic book shit or mediocre 1-5 million indie drama.

film is dead

>>83105312
Burgerclaps have no culture, the only thing that's changed is 4chan

>>83105108
All of those films are shit, you just grew up and got better taste.

This thread fucking reeks of "I just saw taxi driver for the first time"

Not even joking, but Get Out will be THE horror movie of the 2010s that will be remembered similar to the shining.

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sturgeon's law, underage

>>83105108
American Gangster was garbage

>>83105594
No, it won't. It'll be forgotten in a few months, like all the other mediocre "OMG horror movies are back and good now" movies of the past few years.

>>83105108
Go watch John Wick 2

>>83105108
>what is The Master, Fury Road, The Hunt, The Social Network, Drive, Inside Llewyn Davis, The Witch

You're just thinking of the past like all the great films happened in a single year.
90% of films are always shit, no matter the time period.

>never again opening this comfy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOYGHAYR_FE

>>83105461
Atomic Blonde actually ruined my movie because I was watching Fate of the Furious and her character was such an ultra-SJW girlpower bitch that I actually began hating Charlize Theron, then I had to watch virtually the exact same character and damn I am lucky that there were no tall blondes on my way out.

>>83105108

Summer blobkbuster movies turned into superhero movies.

Why come up with anything new when you can just ask the le old cartoon guy for some ideas and use any of the pre-existing 200 superheroes in whatever the fuck scenario you come up with and make serious bank with it?

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>>83105108
But Anon, you've got Spider-Man, The Avengers, and Wonder Woman. You don't need cinema anymore. You've got muli-film universes.

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>>83105926
Agree!!!

>>83105108
Hollywood has been dying since the 90s. In the 2000-2010 timeframe, it was already hobbled but still showing occasional signs of life. Now it is in its death throes.

>>83105525
This. All the people pirating stuff are part of the problem. Filmmakers have to be able to make a living. Maybe new business models, like direct sales online, will take the place of the old.

>>83105525
nah sorry retard.
there's plenty of talented people who can make a great movie economically. studios are just mired in corporate politics so that they don't take risks for their own dumb reasons, and some studios like Sony are just run by SJW maniacs like Amy Pascal. Paying them more money wouldn't make it any better, they need to collapse

>>83105108
Movies started going downhill at the start of the 2000s, and have steadily gotten worse since.

Before there was more variation and original ideas, now it's all sequels, prequels and reboots. And most of them are capeshit.

>>83108476
>>83105525
>too much piracy

this is offset by the fact that nowadays you can make an indie feature like Blue Ruin, The Babadook, The Void or It Follows for as little as $500,000 total budget, and it can have the same visual fidelity and better cinematography / pacing than a $100+ million Hollywood blockbuster - as long as you've got the filmmaking prowess and directing talent to do it well. For amateur filmmakers like this, any exposure is good - including piracy. Word of mouth and discussion allows them to sign their movie on services like Netflix, and can propel them into the world of high-budget filmmaking.

>>83105108
Nah. There are always way more shitty movies coming out than there are gems. We just forget about all the shitty movies from the past and only remember the gems. The same is going to be true about movies made today, when we look back at 2017 from 20 years in the future

>>83109719
>Nah. There are always way more shitty movies coming out than there are gems. We just forget about all the shitty movies from the past and only remember the gems. The same is going to be true about movies made today, when we look back at 2017 from 20 years in the future
I really think you are wrong about this. I watch alot of movies and there is definitely a decline in overall quality in favor of mass appeal.

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>>83110228
my grandpa feels the same way about movies from the 1930's and 40's; he says movies have all steadily been going downhill since then as he blissfully watches corny shit like Mr Smith Goes to Washington. Just because you personally prefer older movies doesn't mean the newer ones are actually bad. You probably just have a predisposition to dislike things that aren't nostalgic to you or that remind you of present day society

>>83105392
no, people are already aware this decade is trash in all areas.

>>83105108
those are garbage films no better than garbage films that get praised today like interstellar and mad max 4

>we will never ever see a film made like Apocalypse Now ever again

Honestly can you imagine Nolan slowly losing his fucking mind in the middle of a rain forest with his cast suffering heart attacks and storms destroying his set

>>83105108
YOU GONNA SHOOT ME FRANK?

>>83110653
modenr filmmakers are too numale for that.

>>83110556
But that's a dumb copout answer. Have not noticed how many capeshit movies are made these day? Are the others that much better? How memorable movies has Hollywood made in the last few years? Face it, movies are simply bad right now.

a lot of the time, your experience watching a new movie is ruined by the hype surrounding it and its annoying fanbase championing it as the best thing ever. With old movies, nobody ever talks about them anymore so you very rarely are going to have expectations set too high. Most of the time, in fact, people's expectations of older movies are automatically lowered just because they are old

>>83110688
20%

>>83105108
What are you gonna do? Huh, /tv/? Stop watching movies? Yeah go ahead and stop watching movies in front of all these people. You ass aint gonna have anything to post about, /tv/. Go ahead.

>>83110854
I watch non-US cinema and tv-series.

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>>83110556
the amount of shit produced and gaining exposure compared to gems has increased objectively. i think people go to movies nowadays to watch vfx badaboom and most thriller-drama transitioned to tv format ie westworld, got, mr robot, etc.

previously vfx weren't cheap and abundant so they had to come up with interesting plot. now they throw in a bunch of 3d, make money and be done with it.

also top directors like cameron, scorcese, fincher, boyle etc are getting old with no replacement, same with actors and screenwriters

>>83110731
>Have not noticed how many capeshit movies are made these day?
I just said that movies released today are like 95% shit and 5% gems, just like how it's been since the beginning.

>Are the others that much better?
there are some really good ones. I gotta take an online final exam right now but this anon posted a few >>83105926

Art isn't profitable anymore. I hope you enjoyed the Minions and Baby Groot because the future of movies will have a lot of that!

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>muh capeshit
>muh baby groot
>it didn't used to be this way, blockbusters used to mean something!!!

>>83105926
Literally every single movie you mentioned flopped. Hollywood is dead kiddos, better sell it to the chinks before they get wiser

>>83111107
>Fury Road
>flopped
pahahahahahahahaahhahaahahahhahahahahahahahah
citation needed

>>83110916
>I just said that movies released today are like 95% shit and 5% gems, just like how it's been since the beginning.
You're wrong.

>there are some really good ones. I gotta take an online final exam right now but this anon posted a few >>83105926
None of those movies will be remembered as great, and none of them will be seen/studied as exemplary pieces of cinema in the future.

>>83111058
>Cherrypicking
Now pick a film made in the last 5 years that people will watch in 20 years and say "Wow, this is one of the greats". There are none.

>>83111139
Look it up son, it's not pretty

>>83111270
I watch a lot of movies. Again. there has been an obvious decline in quality in favor of mass appeal.

>>83111142

>shittalking The Master

PIG FUCK

>>83105525
>the business changed.

And the Jews refuse to adapt.

They refuse to accept the fact that technology destroyed the monopoly they once had on film distribution, and instead of adapting by adopting a new business model, they're sticking with the same shit that died along with the last century.

Why not develop company computer servers and launch your films directly to the customer on-line? Why not stop wasting money delivering individual film stock to individual theaters and just send it to them digitally on-line? Why not develop a studio server system that allows the customer to stream ANY of a studio's films ever made, including behind the scenes shit?

Nah, fuck that. Let's just stick with what worked the last century and bitch about "pirates".

Fuck those Jew motherfuckers, and their shitty films.

>>83111142
>You're wrong.
not an argument

>None of those movies will be remembered as great, and none of them will be seen/studied as exemplary pieces of cinema in the future.
you find that out from your crystal ball? You have no idea what the kids of today will be like as adults in the future, or even what the adults of today will be like when they're 20 years older.

People are always nostalgic about the past. In 2037, people will probably be having this exact same discussion, only they'll be asking why nobody makes movies like No Country for Old Men, Whiplash or even Interstellar anymore

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>Every warrior hopes a good death will find him. But Tristan couldn't wait, he went looking for his.

>>83111345
But good movies with a little mass appeal used to make money too. Lord of the Rings was a hit, Gladiator too, Lynch made money with Blue Velvet and so on. Now everything that doesn't appeal to kids and manchildren a la baby groot bombs, and therefore every year less people try to make these kind of movies

>>83111270
I liked it better when I didn't know. I honestly thought normies loved it.

wow

>>83111058
holy fuck, ID4 made bank

>>83111463
There is actually a system they're developing where you would get access to new release movies (in theaters) 3 weeks from release for like $50 rental. Pretty high unless it's a movie you're going to invites friends over to watch one night instead of going to the theaters.

You are aware that there's more to film than mainstream Hollywood movies right?

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>>83105461
Uhh, no hun.

Same arguments every fucking board. Doesn't matter what the medium is, nostalgiafags are certain that things just aren't as good as they used to be, and they're always btfo.

>>83111836
You say that but you know we are never going to get anything on the scale of Apocalypse Now ever again.
It's been 40 years an nothing like it will ever be made again. I'm 20 so I'm not even a nostalgiafag it's just that it will literally never happen.

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miss citizen dildo yet?

>>83105392
I used to think this, but then I watched consumer standards continue to plummet as people are more willing by the day to pay for the ever advancing Jewery in every single industry. It's no wonder the quality of the average product continues to drop. That's not to say there aren't still gems.

>>83111836
I was alive in the middle of the 90s and it was worse than it is today. But there was room for improvement back then, studios took risks and movies with medium budgets still existed. A couple of years later the made Matrix, for instance. That will.never happen again and you're delusional to think otherwise

>>83105392
I agree but the last couple of years have been exceptionally bad for cinema.
Just look at summer release dates, it's all sequels, prequels and capeshit.

>>83105108
Well over 90% of films have been shit after the late 2000s. Well over 90% of films were shit before the late 2000s as well. The film industry has always been a huge swamp of shit where you'd have to wade through the swamp to find the occasional nugget of gold, and the only difference between then and now is that now you're experiencing them coming out in real-time and having to wade through the swamp yourself instead of only seeing the gold other people had already found for you.

Compare Alien to Alien Covenant and you can see just how far the film industry has fallen.

Pirates of the Caribbean 9 is out next week though, it could be the saviour of cinema that we need.

>>83110653
revenant was kind of like that

>>83105324
what were the good movies from 2014?

>>83109719

uhh, someone has to put up the money for the film to get made. you can cherry pick examples where a successful indie film made a profit, the point is, back before mass pirating, there was a profit motive for filmmaking because you had theatrical run, rental run, then purchase run. so more films were being made. and there was a mid level, where you could take a risk on a 10 million - 50 million budget film. which is where a lot of great films from the past 30 years existed. now there is no mid level, its either super high budget, or low budget, 5 million or lower.

>>83112369
the fuck

its 2017. you don't need to wade through anything. just go look it up on social media and see if it sounds alright.

>>83105461
Three Billboards looks great you pleb

>>83112420
Compare the Handmaiden to Pink Flamingos and you can see just how far the film industry has come, hurrrrr

>>83110750
This. A lot of people think the gems of today are "shit" simply because they were over-hyped for them when they saw them, or because they hate the movie's fanbase

>>83112462
low budget today is as good as mid budget used to be. The barrier to entry has been utterly destroyed

>>83112510
>Comparing two films in the same series made by the same director is the same as comparing two completely different films made by different people

nice try anon you fuckwit

>>83112494
>Trusting reviews
>Trusting social media plebs

Sure Anon, let's all watch Civil War and jerk each other off, that'll show 'em.

>>83105108
>It is me or

It is both of us evidently. We are getting old and everything new looks like shit just like how all the old folk would gripe about when we were young.

There Will Be Blood
No Country for Old Men
The Raid
Get Out
The Place Beyond the Pines

Off the top of my head in 30 seconds, there you have a bunch of exceptionally good films. Your problem is that you're stacking ~10 years of cinema against ~40 years of cinema.

>>83105108
Scarface was a meme movie and not good b an means.

>muh latino culture

Only reason it got a cult following. I only liked it because I was a 13 year old wigger. It's overall a pretty bad movie but still fun to collect I guess. Titanic and 5th element are actuall good movies.

>>83112563
When judging the state of the film industry as a whole it is exactly the same, because the state of the film industry as a whole has nothing to do with Ridley Scott growing old, growing arrogant, and completely losing his touch. Your original point was retarded to begin with you fucking double nigger.

>>83105108
Even the worst movies weren't impossible to watch. Writers actually had to make decent stories, nowadays however just add more cgi explosions.

>>83110731
Do you know how many 14 year olds fucking love that shit and think you are and old fuddy duddy for saying that?

>boo hoo i can't remember, they are not memerable

You're old.

>boo hoo movies are getting worse and worse all the time

You're old.

>boo hoo nothing is ever good like these movies i watched when i was 14yo

You're old.

>>83112059
90s nostalgia is the worst. The 90s was absolute trash culturally.

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>tfw the current Doctor Who season is completely unwatchable to me because of the abhorrent degeneracy that's been injected into it as part of policy now

>>83112774
Agreed. I lived through it and everything was laughably terrible. Like literally the only thing you could do was shake your head and laugh because everything was just fucking dumb.

>>83112774
Agree, it was shit in all fields. The 2010s remind me of that time

>>83112591

If it was just us not appreciating modern shit they wouldnt be remaking/rebooting/prequeling everything from a superior era.

I think the most modern film I liked was Bone Tomahawk and it certainly has its faults.

>>83112835
I was born in 94, but I still remember the cultural output along with early 2000s. It was TRASH. The only people I agree with are the gamers, gaming was prime in the early 2000s. But film was utter shit. The main films I remember from the early 2000s were Tokyo Drift and the Matrix. That tells you how bad things were.

>>83112946
Yeah, gaming was actually really good for about 15 years back then.

>>83112900
Yeah, almost everything is trash, but don't be blinded, there are some gems as I pointed out here:

>>83112615

>>83105324
Edge of Tomorrow, Planet of the apes, godzilla

>>83112615
>The Place beyond the Pines
It's shit.

>>83112711
>unable to think of an original idea to save their lives and have to plunder established IP after established IP to make a buck
>hurr you're just old an out of touch!

Stop remaking old movies then faggot if they're just a bunch of "fuddy duddy" shit and not actually superior.

I think the Internet has fucked up everyones attention spans and lowered the quality movies

>>83111603
Of course the Jews will try to charge too much, making sure that nobody will buy into their shit.

Fuck em'.

Let the bastards go the way of the horse buggy manufacturers.

>>83113260
>t. fuddy duddy

>>83105108
Pop culture as a whole has been dying for years. Its not about being creative or different. Its about how much money can we squeeze out of the consumer. Hence why the majority of tv and movies are lowest common denominator garbage. And why music as a whole is the worst its ever been.

>>83112615

>Get Out

Get out.

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>>83113378
Smart phones with internet access in particular. You can't hold a proper conversation with someone now without them stopping every few moments to check their phone, text, or show you something funny they found.

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>>83105525
>pirates are the problem

Yes Mr. Goldberg its the damn pirates fault.

>>83112711

>you can't be old and still enjoy movies

Yes, how could we have been so blind. WE are to blame

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>>83113499
>And why music as a whole is the worst its ever been.

I can't even turn on the radio anymore. 1, I don't want to listen to shit I listened to when I was growing up. 2, everything new sounds exactly the same as everything old. Radio is dead to me in my area as a result. I have to rely on the internet to find new indie music that isn't mainstream at all. Fuck, I've been forced into hipsterism by the Jews.

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>>83105926
>social network

Hands down one of the most overrated movies ever made. Why people put it so high is beyond me.

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>>83112946
>I was born in 94, but I still remember the cultural output

>>83105108
you just grew up.

Films have always been shit.

>>83113614
Adults are always to blame. The older the more responsibility for what is occurring rests on their shoulders. THEY let it get this way. Every year you allow shit like this to go on is another year that it is your fault.

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>People complaining about films nowadays lacking originality when out of the three films mentioned by OP as the pinnacles of their age one was ripped from reality and another was a remake

>>83110704
This. It would conflict with putting in as much political overtones as possible

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>>83113727

95% of all art is TRASH that will be forgotten with time
this is true and has always been true for all artforms in all periods of time
we don't live in particularly awful times. you're just biased because you analyze the quality of past works by those few that survived the test of time
you'll never experience the Saw IX of 1941, you'll watch Citizen Kane instead

>>83111568
Underrated post. Hollywood just follows the money.

>>83113561
film makers realize in order to earn money the movie has to cater to that audience so we end up with capeshit

>>83113781
All that image proves is that the American public has awful taste. Make one that accounts for all films made and it might hold some relevance.

>>83113781
>The Fast and the Furious was released in 2001
>it is 2017 right now

>>83113718

What do you want me to do, genius? Put on a lyceum at the local school and tell all the kids to stop liking stupid shit?

>>83105392
The only good movie to come out in the 2010's are Mad Max Fury Road and The Hobbit (first one).

>>83112037
Problem is the gems get buried by the jew studios rather you see cool popular movie starring cool popular actor or actress as opposed to something different and creatively interesting.

>>83113791
/thread

>>83105108
>says film is shit now
>proceeds to name a shit movie, a good REMAKE, and a fun popcorn flick
You're an idiot

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>>83113943
As a matter of fact, yes.

Lobby for a critical thinking class. Become a teacher. Teach other teaches how to teach children to be critical thinkers who stay away from trash like this that just rots their brains and takes time off their life with no productivity.

>>83113932
10 movies in 20 years

>>83105461
>three billboards outside ebbing missouri
hey this shit looks pretty good though, Martin McDonagh is a phenomenal director

>>83113791
are you retarded? we still talk about mozart and duchamp. Of course nobody is likely to watch "nine lives" with kevin spacey on 2590, but that doesn't mean you'll only listen to a limited bunch, moreso because now we have a little something called THE INTERNET where everything is everywhere and shit hardly gets lost forever. You might end up with an awful digital reproduction of something that looked amazing and pristine on film, but i doubt movies worth saving will be lost in time, at least not for a few centuries. After that, humanity itself might go to the gutter and nobody will care about movies or music anyways

>>83114093

When society collapses there won't be internet.

>>83112711
Here's the other problem. Most kids these days view anything and everything before 2000 as old and not ever worth a look. Which is odd because when I was younger I don't remember there being a stigma around what year a movie came out. I was 10 in 95 and would watch films like Indiana Jones and back to the future all the time. I never stopped and said "ewww this is old no thanks" but most kids and teens feel that way.

>>83105108
100% agree with you OP.
This year has to be the worst by far.
Nothing I've seen has been memorable and I've been quite picky. Nothing on the menu for the rest of the year looks worthy of viewing. I terminated my movie-going for the remainder of the year after seeing : Covenant.

Seems like the whole year is packed with SJWism, empty female leads, social commentary, empty plots, and propaganda. Nothing inspiring/deep/forward thinking. Even Blade Runner looks cringe worthy with dindu looking Ryan Gosling... Complete garbage.

I'd argue we are actually seeing a mass resurgence to TV.

Major pay to watch stations are basically leading the fray when it comes to thrillers/mysteries. Hell Game of Thrones is basically defining the sword and sorcery genre as part of TV.

Moving from 26 episode seasons to 10 max is also meaning far tighter narratives and better pacing controls.

>>83113561
This video reminds me of a group of early 20s women that sat next to my family at a restaurant few months back. I shit you not for an hour straight they took photos of each other, their food, then passed their phones around so their friends could take photos of them and there food. For AN HOUR and the kicker?? They said maybe 3 to 4 words to each other the entire time.

>>83111270
150 mil budget, 379 mil box office

what's the problem?

>>83105312
Why can't they comprehend that there points in cultures where things go up, and also where things go down

We are currently going down hard
(because of jews and leftists)

>>83105108
I think movies are a dying art form and VR is just about to explode. Once all the creatives jump on to this brave new world, there WILL be original and fresh properties again because the old fuddy duddies will fail at adapting all the old crap to VR so we'll need all new stuff.

>>83105525
This, the industry has kept growing and evolved into its final form, the mid budget flick is dead and so is innovation

http://flavorwire.com/492985/how-the-death-of-mid-budget-cinema-left-a-generation-of-iconic-filmmakers-mia

>>83114294
Yeah, the saving grace has been a number of quality tv shows.

>>83114374
I can understand it and I see it.
What would you say ends up being the focus of the intelligent people during these times?

>>83114116
but by then we all will have thousands of movies saved somewhere and, in case we still have computers, we could trade YIFYes, or meet at some dystopian garage where some priviledged person who still owns a computer screens whatever movies they have left.. scenarios are more complex than you'd asume, and i hardly see movies being "gone forever". If they were, people would find a way to keep them alive, like.. stage actors playing "terminator 2" for future generations.

>>83114127
>Most kids these days view anything and everything before 2000 as old and not ever worth a look.
[citation needed]

>>83105525
blaming anything on piracy is a red flag that shows everyone else you have no idea what you're talking about btw

>>83113781
>totally not biased image
People were pissed off about sequels in the 80s and 90s. I like how it left out Aliens and the Empire Strikes back. Or Chinatown 2

>>83114018

>"In other news, a local high school teacher was fired today for allegedly beginning a class with a number of anti-semetic remarks, and later claiming that 'Islam was God's punishment for miscegenation'"

Yeah, good luck spreading the real knowledge in this environment.

>>83112774
Everyone says this about every decade; shitting on the 90's is no different. Boomers are always looking back at pictures of themselves wearing bell bottoms and disco suits in the 70's and going "WTF were we thinking?"

Gen-Xers do the same with the 80s and their poofy hair / clashing colors, and now millennials are trashing the 90's

>>83105525
agree

Fuck all of you delusional nostalgiafags, 2007 was the most kino filled year of them all

>No Country for Old Men
>There Will Be Blood
>The Assassination of Jesse James
>Zodiac
>Eastern Promises
>Before the Devil Knows You're Dead

>>83105525
the exact same thing has already happened to the music industry, and music certainly is not dead.

>its not worth it to make mid-budget drama films, its either 100 million dollar action/comic book shit or mediocre 1-5 million indie drama.
You seriously think all indie drama is mediocre? So only people hired by big Hollywood studios - who've been granted budgetary permission by the Jews who run the show there - can possibly make good dramas? fuck outta here with that shit.

There are tons of would-be filmmakers who could've made fantastic directors in the past if it weren't so hard to just get the right Hollywood connections to get noticed. Nowadays you hardly even need Hollywood to make a good drama, because the barrier to entry for making a film is so much lower than it used to be.

>>83105108
>after late 2000s
what were some good movies from the early 2000s? LOTR is extremely overrated

>>83105108
Hollywood fell off a cliff after 2004 and its death rattle ended in 2008. The 2010s have been shit compared to the 2000s and the 90s.

>>83115112
you have to admit that since then it's been pretty flat. 2008 happened. Studios greenlit more and more adaptations of established franchises (comics, video games, tv series, etc) to try to maximize profits. A movie's box office performance is now measured in weeks, not even months. All is going faster now.
I miss the nineties.

>>83105108
stop watching exclusively Hollywood

>>83114374
Because we know it doesn't happen that fast and it isn't going down.

>jews and leftists
Two things never associated with movies.
>>83105312
>why don't people buy our scare tactics?

>>83112797
faggot sperg bait show is just faggotier now. didnt the blond bitch have a nigger boyfriend like in the 2006 show

>>83112508
>>83114079
But but but, my Ferguson

>>83112615
>There Will Be Blood
Abos-
>Get Out
ugh, faggot

>>83105441
kek

>>83112457
whiplash, birdman, boyhood, grand budapest hotel, nightcrawler
correct me if Im missing any