Why did he lose?

>>83006002
He's white.

TINY

That's what happens when you fight Mary Sue.

She released her anger

Melanin is more powerful than midichlorians

he had a gaping wound in his side

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>>83006095
No he didn't.

>>83006002
Bad mental state.

>>83006002
Well he did cop a crossbow bolt from Chewie

>>83006002

Femichlorians.

Basically the next step in the evolution of the Force.

>The Force had learned from it's past mistake trying to balance itself based on midichlorians. Too much interference from testosterone. So the Force evolved and changed to femichlorians.
>These femichlorians allow for a natural armor against the patriarchic midichlorians and give the jedi an extra edge in combat against shitlords

>>83006002
He's the hero, so he has to loose his first big guy, like Luke and Anakin. He's got Skywalker blood in him, why do you think they had him kill his dad Han? Rey will turn evil in the next movie.

>>83006002
For you

>>83006002
Grrl power

>>83006002
He was mortally wounded by both Chewie and Finn. Also he wasn't trying to kill her.

>>83006691
>and Finn
?

>>83006175
>cop

/fa/ gtfo

>>83006702
Finn hurt Kylo when they fought. Are you retarded?

>>83006820
hahahahaha are you?

>>83007011
Well I'm smarter than you, so if I'm retarded I guess that makes you a vegetable.

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>>83007011

>>83007056
>>83007130
Not an argument.

It's either this >>83006052
or this >>83006681

>>83007161
You're right, this isn't an argument. You didn't raise any points. How can one argue against nothing?

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>>83006002

>>83007056
please go and watch the scene again

stop embarrasing yourself

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>>83007367
okay, watched it again. looks like exactly what i said happened happened in exactly the way i remembered it.

your turn to rewatch it now.

There's 0 reason for Ren to be evil. There's 0 reason for him to be a shitty fighter but he was. I hope they do the swerve that makes Rey the final villain and Ren the hero who was an undercover good guy all along.

Rey closed her eyes for 30 seconds and Kylo didn't cunt punt her that's why he lost.

Holy fuck stop making threads on this shit, it's obvious why he lost

>>83007732
So, why did he lose?

>>83007367
YOU go and watch the scene again you feloniously stupid cunt.

>>83007754
>Took a shot from Chewies Bowcaster through the stomach
>Emotionally conflicted from just killing his dad
>Had to hit the wound just to stay conscious due to blood loss
>Had never been in a lightsaber duel before
>His training wasn't complete
>Rey clearly had previous fighting experience and could defend herself quite well with her staff
>He wasn't trying to kill her

Despite all this he had her on the run the entire fight until the very end. He let his guard down to ask her to join him and he fucked up

>>83007976
>feloniously

keep ti to four syllables or less please

>>83006002
I hope that in ep 8 Smoke realizes that mary sue is more powerful, so he casts kylo aside and corrupts mary sue. It would be a good redemption story and would help me accept her legendary abilities if they're uses for evil. But Disney won't do that. Prepare for an ep 5 remake.

From my perspective Kylo won.

>>83006192
>There is no light or dark
>The force is a spectrum

>>83008102
>zhe's bi-forceal

>>83008099
Then you are lost!

>>83008127
>Kylo Ren's redemption arc involves take responsibilty for his micro aggressions towards Rey. Cuts of his own penis and indentifies as a non binary cyan jedi
Really Disney?

>>83008036
/thread

>>83006002
he lost because he secretly regretted killing his father, and as a dark side user, he couldnt use his hate to make himself stronger

>>83006002
Mary Sue and Tyrone Sue was just waaaay much better than him

>>83006022
I thought he was Asian

>>83009413
>>83008036

Let's forget all the impossible nonsense mary sue rey did before including flying the falcon in a dog fight inside an obstacle course only after just flying it for the first time like two minutes before.
And Rey using the Force At All, Ren had Rey legitimately beat. He played around with Finn And Finn injured him and he took Finn out in an instant. Rey had no business using a saber to say nothing of the force. Finn has an excuse. His former comrade called him a traitor and wielded an anti saber weapon which shows at the very least they did combat with sabers and how to counter them. Rey's some ugly contemptible mary sue sand nigger girl power Jar Jar Jew and Dyke Kennedy self insert. She's literally all powerful and can do anything including things that required being taught and practicing. Her going to Luke to train is literally the biggest joke of all time. Mark Literally said it himself that she's more powerful than Obi wan was, more powerful than Luke. He didn't say, "Then why she's coming to me then?" But he sure as shit implied it. J.J. is a piss poor story teller. He has no concept of size, or restraint or anything logical because to him, if it sounds cool in his head, he's doing it. Finn's literally light years away but he could see, in real time as if he's watching lightning in a thunder storm, see the death star destroy an entire solar system. The death star's ten times bigger now and it siphons off the power of a sun. Now that's really fucking ridiculous. Even more ridiculous than maRey Sue. And yet so many people defends The shit awakens. People are dumb.

Star trek 2009 is just as dumb, the Engine room of the Enterprise is literally bigger than the Enterprise and yet no one seems to notice. It's supposed to be maybe the size of a modest auditorium, but what we saw it'd be easily as big as a soccer pitch or a foot ball field in size, and yet the engine room alone is more than that. J.J's a hack.

>>83009877
And rey's a mary sue don't forget that. He wasn't any of those things when she used force telepathy against him and used force suggestion. She's horribly broken at this point.

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>>83010145
He has some native American ancestry from his father side.

>>83006691
>mortally
You don't know what this word means.

>>83010248
Lol holy shit. That effort deserves a you

>>83010248
>The death star's ten times bigger now and it siphons off the power of a sun. Now that's really fucking ridiculous.
If Star Forge could feed on the sun's energy, why can't Starkiller absorb it entirely?

>>83010487
Thank you.

>>83010558
I don't do EU shit. Neither did Lucas. The only EU shit he took was the planet were the senate was.

>>83008127
she's force fluid

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>>83006002
because he's
>borderline
>autistic
>religious
>straight
>white
>male
>fascist
>rapist
>entitled
>born of privilege
>going up against a diverse group of heroes

>>83007056
Had a hearty chuckle at that

>>83006002
the power of feminism

>>83007490
>>83007976
so a wound in the shoulder is fatal now??

hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahha

>>83006002
Sudden crippling autism

>>83011359
He was also shot with a Wookie crossbow, which the film has shown launches/kills people with one shot. He was shot in the torso. I don't know if you ever been in a fight before, but body shots(punches) wind you down, make you slower, especially near the ribs. He wasn't fighting at his peak, this is why someone like Finn was even able to wound his shoulder. Combine that with his mental state being damaged from killing his father, and it is plausible that a competent fighter like MaRey sue can beat him. And before you say his mental state wasn't damaged from killing his father, it states in the book that upon killing Han, Kylo thought he would feel better, but he didn't. He felt worse. His head isn't all there, because there's a part of him that still loves his father. He's trying to use Sith tactics against Rey by beating his own wound but it wasn't working.

>>83011760
>I don't know if you ever been in a fight before, but body shots(punches) wind you down, make you slower, especially near the ribs. He wasn't fighting at his peak, this is why someone like Finn was even able to wound his shoulder.
hahahahahahaha please can you go and rewatch the movie, he was playing with Finn, he understimated Finn like aaaaaaaaall fucking siths have done ever in star wars, they think they are so much superior that they are overconfident and that is their principal flaw...

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>>83009877
This. Dudes obviously going to flip sides to the light. Disney thinks they're clever with that plot hook, and honestly its better than most of the trite they put out so it'll be eaten up as "kino".

EVERY FUCKING DAY THE SAME EXACT THREAD WITH THE SAME EXACT POSTS AGAIN AND AGAIN, HOW THE FUCK AREN'T YOU AUTISTS TIRED OF MAKING THE SAME GAY ASS POINTS FOR 2 YEARS NOW LIKE ANYONE WILL CHANGE HIS OPINION SUDDENLY

JUST STOP BUMPING THIS DEGENERATE FUCKING "DISCUSSION" ALREADY please I beg you

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>>83011512
I could believe this.

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>>83010388
Yes I do? He literally had to punch himself so he wouldn't pass out from the blood loss.

>>83009877
This. Kylo lost because of his emotions whereas Rey won because of hers.

>>83006117

For some reason I have a feeling that Rey and Kylo are going to flip places with Rey going Dark and Kylo going through a redemption arc. Part of me hopes I'm wrong since that's a LOT to squeeze into three films but Kylo is already showing that he is a good person at heart and Rey was filled with rage during her duel with Kylo. I even thought her fighting style reminded me of Palatine's during that fight.

>>83012059
>83008127
Not until Disney give Star Wars back to George. Everyone must see the shit awakens for what it is and until they do there is no stopping, there is no let up, there is no desist.

>>83010281
I thought it was pretty obvious in that scene that Kylo indirectly taught her/awakened her powers when he tries to mind rape her

>>83011359
>so a wound in the shoulder is fatal now??
The mortal wound was from Chewie you stupid fuck.

>>83012493
This is all George's fault. Not JJ, not Disney, it's his fault.

He's just an old spineless weak pussy who was afraid to get shat on by critics yet again so he sold his life's work to a children toy manufacturing franchise fully knowing what they are going to do with it in hope that everyone would stop blaming him.
Fuck him.

>>83012493
>give Star Wars back to George
Fuck no. TFA being bad/medicore doesn't redeem Lucas's fuckups or turn the prequels into a hidden master piece

>>83006002
he was injured and mentally not all there at the time

>>83012475

Rey specifically fought with rage during that fight, kylo was on the full defensive.

>>83012529
Like how the Jedi Council indirectly taught Anakin when they all probed his mind and read his thoughts? Rey's broken beyond all repair. She's surpassed any other mary sue instance that was ever seen before. She's literally a self insert as dreamed up by a 12 year old boy who knows nothing about logical characterizations and the transition of a hero on the hero's journey.

>>83012597
Because when you give a President the White House it's awesome to blame his errors on the previous administration and not his own incompetence.
Lucas had learned from his mistakes and had wrote a bible of where to take the series and how to expand on what he established. As Lucas himself said, Star Wars was always about Father and Sons, and I thought they could have learned from my mistakes and surpass what I did but they were not interested in any of that. I want the Based Hacker to Release The Last Jedi so it could be spoiled and reviewed and spat upon so that when it's officially released it bombs leaving no survivors.

>>83012769
When Luke used Rage against Vader it worked so well for him in ESB and here's the kicker though, Luke was taught and practiced to get good and still lost. Rey's some no named sand nigger who could into everything and is instantly loved and trusted by everyone including people she just met. Say it with me, Rey's a Mary Sue!

>>83012917
>Like how the Jedi Council indirectly taught Anakin when they all probed his mind and read his thoughts?
No, not like that at all. There's a pretty clear difference between what the Jedi Council was doing than what Kylo was doing lmao.

>>83012769
I like to think that the film is trying to imply at first that she channeling the light side, but when she beats kylo it becomes more clear that she was challenging the dark side. Kind of reinforcing the idea of the "balance"
>PT was the journey to the dark side
>OT was the journey to the light side
>ST is finding the balance
That also makes me think that Rey won't fully go evil, which would actually be neat. The kylo redemption arc will definitely happen though

>>83012958
Are you high. To learn the force you have to be taught the force. NO one can implant the force into your mind. It doesn't work that way. It never worked that way. Luke had to taught, Anakin had to be taught, Obi Wan had to be taught. Stop retconning for Disney and Jar Jar Jew!

>>83006590
I wish this was actually the story.

>>83013104
The Force Awakens is an illogical shit fest. It literally makes no sense. If it actually had a believable story maybe, but stuff is there because to J.J. it sounded cool in his bloody head.

>>83006002
Because rey is lukes daughter and trained with them until kylo went anakin on the younglings, so luke mindfucked rey and dumped her on tattoine 2.

How is this not blatantly obvious to everyone?

Hur dur how do rey know how to be jedi with no training? Because she had training, idiots.

>>83006002
>feeling sad about killing your dad moments earlier
>no formal training in the force or swordplay
>angry as fuck that a bunch of upstarts are ruining your day
>just had your left kidney blown away
>opponent is literal mary sue

>>83013225
At age 4? Tell me, How well did those kids do against Anakin Skywalker when he killed 12 of them? Oh Yeah, they all jobbed. And yet here you are defending some Mary Sue who uses what essentially is beyond her from the beginning of the film. Good luck with that.

>>83012917
>Lucas had learned from his mistakes

lmao where did you get that precious information from?
To this day he didn’t acknowledge a single criticism about the prequels, he became a completely delusional out of touch old fart uncapable of anything but showing up on those Disney circlejerk conventions to make awkward interviews just to get his next check and that's it

>>83013070
>To learn the force you have to be taught the force.
According to what? You realize this is a fictonal universe, right?
>NO one can implant the force into your mind.
Correct. Nobody implanted the force into anyone's mind, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
>It doesn't work that way. It never worked that way.
Wow, it's almost like they're adding new elements to the universe. What a strange concept that's never been seen before in fantasy.

Clearly there is going to be an explanation for Rey's "awakening." Sorry that you're autistically triggered that they slightly deviated from a loose concept of abstract children's space magic that was completely ridiculous from the start.

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>>83013225
>the younglings

>>83013053
But then what will Disneys next 5 trilogies be about?

>>83013225
Its why she knows how to use a lightsaber. Its why kylo recognizes her. Its why luke is stunned to see her. Its why she has "amnesia" of everything before being left.

>>83013148
>The Force Awakens is an illogical shit fest. It literally makes no sense.
Are you new to Star Wars?

>>83012917
>Because when you give a President the White House it's awesome to blame his errors on the previous administration and not his own incompetence.

But the difference here is that the former president (George) had the option to choose who will be the next president (Disney) and get a fuckload of money for it, so yes it's entirety his fault.

If he cared about Star Wars he would choose better who to sell/give it to.
If you work on a mountain your whole life you sure as fuck wouldn't go and sell it to some big corporation fully knowing they would make a parking lot out of it.
Better sell it to no one then and let the mountain stay as it is to your grave if fucking Disney is your only other option.

At least Anakin had a reason to become evil. Kylo was just "dude evil is sexy xDDDD" and became and edgelord murderer for no reason.

Unless the next movie reveals he's an undercover agent all along of course.

Because the movie sucks

>>83013278
Rey got dumped on that planet at 13 or14. She has a block on her memory of before. Or do you really think a 4 year old defended herself?

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>>83010322
He looks French.

>>83012917
>willingly letting a group of monks probe your mind/emotional balance to see if you'll make the cut and can join the official space wizard academy
vs
>Darth Edge Lord literally forcing his way into your thoughts and goes to far
Really nigga?

Rey's entire arc is accepting the hero's call to action after rejecting it because of
>muh family
>muh jakku
In a movie called "The Force Awakens," you're seriously gonna nitpick what the hero can and can not do? In a film series with space magic and a tiny green man who can do backflips and spits out philosophy?

>She's literally a self insert as dreamed up by a 12 year old boy
That's funny, you could literally say the same for Anakin in TPM.

>>83008036
I thought if plebs tried to wield light sabers they would just kill themselves. Doesn't it take many years for Jedi younglings to master the skill of even waving the thing to around?

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>>83013278
>How well did those kids do against Anakin Skywalker when he killed 12 of them?
He won because he was a significantly more powerful force user. Kylo isn't nearly as powerful as Vader was, let alone Anakin at his prime.

>>83006002
because lightsaber battles are more about precognition through the force than 'sword skill' and rey was more focused on the light side through her desire to protect finn while renn was distracted and not focused on killing her, which made his connection to the dark side weak (why he kept hitting his wound; pain brings stronger connection to the dark side)

wait i mean sjws xd

>>83013419
but they haven't revealed anything about why he chose the dark side at all

how can you criticize it for being weak if they haven't even explained it

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>>83013525
She is hot af, get out of here.

>>83013515
>I thought if plebs tried to wield light sabers they would just kill themselves.
Did you not watch A New Hope?

>>83013286
ReRead his interview of where he sees the series going and what he felt worked and what didn't work and where to go to next.

>>83013329
According to Lucas. The god of this series. Fuck the fanficton Disney vomited up.

You said obviously Ren did something that changed Rey, that's not how it works. The movie never showed Rey training, so you only could have meant that Ren did something to her.

You're given facts, to add to those facts your version of the truth, or lies does not in anyway establish the actual facts, it just makes you a liar.

That's not how movies work. You see, the other Jews, the Warchowski BROTHERS, knew how story telling worked. You're saying that there's nothing wrong with Neo, in the first act of the first movie having all the powers he had by the final act of the third movie. You're as shitty of a story teller as Jar Jar Jew is.


>>83013408
Are you?
>>83013414
The Shit Awakens was not at all the reason why it made money. Were it about Wookies, Droids and fucking Ewoks it would have made billions. It was the most anticipated sequel film history. The prequels were of no concern because they were Prequels. Disney literally had the keys to the Bugatti and they sliced it up into a sand buggy to use on the beach.

>>83013443
Unless it is seen on screen, as in, explicitly stated or shown, then it never happened.

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>>83013414
>If you work on a mountain your whole life you sure as fuck wouldn't go and sell it to some big corporation fully knowing they would make a parking lot out of it.

>implying the mountain wasn't already a parking lot before disney bought it

>>83013419
If theydo it right, kylo is at lukes jedi indoctrination camp on yavin 4 and stumbles into the wrong temple, and is corrupted by the sentient force of exar kun. Literaly the most powerful being in the star wars universe.

But yea they will half ass it and just make kylo a drama bitch.

>>83013611
Because there's nothing in the entire universe that would be worth creating solar system exploding weapons over. We know Kylo is a foreveralone permavirgin so it's not an Anakin situation. He would also know through Leia and Han that Anakin was misguided and that evil forces never would've brought Padme back to life so there's zero motivation for him to be evil for something like that.

Considering Leia still exists on the side of good there's zero reason to suspect that the side of good is doing some great evil in the universe that Kylo is trying to erase. Kylo is just a poorly written edgelord white male for the diverse female/trans cast to heroically defeat.

>>83013674
>Unless it is seen on screen, as in, explicitly stated or shown, then it never happened.
There are still 2 more movies to go you fucking sperg. The story isn't over.

>>83013674
It's extremely obvious that there's something that makes Rey different from other force users. Pointing out that "that's not how it works" is redundant. Sorry that the series that the series isn't going in a direction that fits neatly in your autism canon.

>>83010558
Which Starkiller?

>>83013674
>that's not how it works
that's the point. it's awe inspiring how this flew over all of your heads lmao.

>>83011260
>(((Elsberg)))

>>83013989
Death Star 3

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>>83013770
>kylo ren
>white male

>>83006002
He's all berserker and no focus.

>>83013419
>undercover agent all along
Snape 2.0?

>>83013478
Ren used force Freeze and Force telepathy, surpassing anything Vader did other than long distance choking.

Rey's no hero, she's literally the ancient Chinese gods looking down. There's no way she's a hero. Hero's suffers, and loses and needs the aide of others to even become copable. Rey does all that on her own.

>flies the falcon for the first time and does so expertly and within two minutes, fighting in a dog fight, in an obstacle course, expertly.

>first time firing a gun, expertly kills eight people.

>can speak any language including droid.

>Can use the force expertly, even though Luke took three movies to use suggestion. Rey does so within hours of hearing there is a force

>is loved by everyone and instantly trusted by the Resistance. Trusted on mission to Luke, this no one they just met.

The force was always rooted in logic. Lucas compared the Jedi to Samurai and the Force to martial arts. In each instance you have to be trained and practice and adhere to a code. Rey's a no one who instantly starts doing everything. She can climb a mountain effortlessly, she can speak any language, first time shooting a gun, well look out Luke who missed constantly in a new hope. Every shot of Rey's hits it target even though Luke used a blaster before. Rey hadn't and he's an expert. Everyone loves her. She can expertly fly the falcon.

And lastly numb nuts, nothing Anakin did in the TPM even comes close to Rey. Anakin used force Prescience. The same thing Luke used in ANH. He was a slave and wattoo used in to race a pod when he was young. He had never finished a race though and was only able to not die. That's why wattoo used him. Other humans died. Anakin was the first not to. His danger avoidance ability never made him superior to anyone. To get good he had to practice and fail. Every Entry level Force user can use Prescience. Rey uses master level abilities. The only equivalent would be for Anakin to have killed Maul in TPM and Luke Vader.

>>83010248
>The death star's ten times bigger now and it siphons off the power of a sun. Now that's really fucking ridiculous.

It's space fantasy, not science fiction. Starkiller is dumb in the same way the 2nd death star was dumb in ROTJ. You just sorta see it and roll your eyes
>Really? Another Death Star?
I agree on JJ being a hack though

>>83013611
that is why it's weak, you can't just introduce an important character, who happens to be playing the role of a villain in the first movie, without explaining all that shit. That's why TFA doesn't make any fucking sense, they start it "in medias res" just so they could have it mirror episode IV. Which fucking left a bunch of shit unexplained and made TFA a shit movie overall because of its pure copycat nature.

>>83006002
Because he was physically very injured, canonically mentally messed up from killing his father, didn't want to kill Rey, and his trajectory is to turn away from being a bad guy starting in TLJ. That's about it.

He's Zuko. He's an antagonist that challenges the protagonist but often fails because even if he doesn't realize it yet, he's fighting for the wrong team and will only come into himself when he switches sides.

>>83013653
...OKAY ahahahahahahahahahahahahah even the picture you posted she looks average AF bruh. the reason why she's been memed on so hard (and it stuck) because people can tell she's a bit funny looking. not ugly, but just weird. she's probs a repitlian desu famicom

>>83013419
It's obvious that we don't know why he turned yet. We do know that Snoke has been influencing him for years but whatever else turned him probably has to do with what Luke may have discovered about the Jedi.

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>>83014209
>The force was always rooted in logic.

>>83013225
This is confirmed false. The Jedi massacre didn't happen until just 6 years before TFA. Rey was long since on Jakku. She had nothing to do with any of that.

>>83013770
He didn't create nor operate Starkiller. In fact, he makes it pretty clear that he wants basically nothing to do with the First Order or their weapons. His goal is something else that he's cooked up with or without Snoke.

Also, it's canon that Luke, Leia and Han never told Kylo the real truth about Vader. Kylo didn't even know he was related to Vader until 6 years before TFA, when it came out against Leia's will to the public. That probably fueled some anger.

>>83013560
And Ren was more significantly powerful than him. Using the force, says Lucas, is like martial arts. It's like playing an instrument. The more complicated the move you use or piece of music you write, you have to be more intoned with the force. That's why meditation is a must. You have to get intoned with the force to never lose. Lucas said Sheev didn't sleep because he was That intoned with the dark side. Sheev never slept and his Prescience was superior to everyone's including Yoda. That's why you could never sneak up on him because he could see you coming. Yes he lost against Mace but that was okay because he also foresaw Anakin helping him. In fact he foresaw Anakin helping from when Anakin was a small child. Remember him congratulating Anakin in TPM?

>>83013798
That's not how movies work. If you're not called a god like one in the first movie, being a god in the first does not in any way lessen your mary sue'd ness if it's explained as to how and why you're a god in successive movies because you're just retconnign at this point, covering up your failure at story telling.

>>83013896
No it's not obvious because that's not how movies work. Here's a way, "I Luke sky walker left the order as a disgrace, for I have done something unmentionable, I used the force to create a life, something out of thin air and when I did, i felt the force abandon me out of revulsion. I have broken the natural order of the universe. I have created life void of life, so I hid my error on a back water planet and told some one how to find me if ever my creation causes shit. I want to kill it, but I'm ashamed. Maybe it could live out its life in peace without ever knowing about the force, or its true nature. For I fear it can be the end of us all if it understands what it is. It is the force personified."

>>83014000
Lucas as the father decides how it works, Not Disney.

>>83014432
Please confirm it for me. Because for years disney shills were claiming all of the eu is false, but it looks like they are straight up ripping of the eu, just without mara jade.

In the eu lukes daughter is the new chosen one, hans son awakens exar kun and becomea a sith, ect.

>>83006002
Because he chose not to use his freeze-force-cheat, even though he was weakened and up against 2 opponents.
While it's the one unique force power he has that he performs multiple times, effortlessly, in the movie.
While he still uses other force abilities in the fight.

>>83014276
The Force was based on being taught and then practicing to get good. If you can't do as much then you're a lazy story teller. And J.J's a lazy story teller. Just look at Super 8, and Star Trek 2009. Both are examples of his lazy story telling.
Especially super 8.

>>83014430
Yeah, it's rooted in logic. It's not say the magic words or believe in yourself bullshit. You have a piano and the force is a piano but to play mozart,you have to sit down and practice repetitively to get good.

>>83014575
The timeline is made clear in the new canon novel Bloodline, which had its basic big plotpoints supplied by Rian Johnson himself.

6 years before TFA, Leia thought Kylo and Luke were still out training and nothing bad had happened. Because it hadn't yet. Then at this same time, it was finally revealed to the public that Vader was Leia and Luke's father, since they'd been hiding it. The public briefly turned on her and it probably didn't turn out so well on Luke and Kylo's end either, considering Leia was devastated at the idea of her son finding out that way.

The massacre happened at some point after that. Rey had been on Jakku for at least a good 5 - 7 years before any of this was happening.

>>83014682
Ok fair enough i havent read a starwars eu book in over 10 years. If thats true then my whole theory is garbage.

But i used to read them all and i was really hoping i was right.

>>83014682
So basically, They've retconned it to fight their mary sue bullshit. that's shit. They thoroughly screwed the pooch with the shit awakens and now they're trying to cauterized the wound. They should have said it in the movie. They should have showed Rey being fourteen and being dropped off on the planet. But to now say, it was just five years ago is pure bullshit and you know it. It's called Retconning and sadly for you people, that ship of believability sailed a long time ago.

>>83014345
>I'm a girl btw

>>83006002
he was a cis white male who revered his grandfather, the plot demanded his humiliation at the hands of a POC and a fearless woman

>>83014944
They actually did show her getting dropped off. You can barely see her, its a shot of the ship.

>>83014977
But she is average but when she smiles my dick literally curls up like a spring and tries to crawl up into my pelvis. She's kinda ghastly when smiling.

>>83015050
yes, they drop off a child and then we have Rey years later. So she's not fourteen then. Their little retconn years later won't save their abysmal failure of a movie.

>>83014521
>That's not how movies work. If you're not called a god like one in the first movie, being a god in the first does not in any way lessen your mary sue'd ness if it's explained as to how and why you're a god in successive movies because you're just retconnign at this point, covering up your failure at story telling.
When Rey begins to use her force powers, Kylo mentions that there's been "an awakening." The movie is literally called "The Force Awakens". None of this is difficult to understand. Children understand it. Which part of this is lost on you?

>>83010322
In that case why is this movie not being protested for the white girl beating the biracial guy? Seems racist.

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>>83006002
A FUCKING WHITE MALE

>>83014209
>Hero's suffers
For the first time in Rey's life, she is forming meaningful connections with people (Han, Chewie, Finn) and then watches these people get killed/maimed. Her entire arc involves accepting that her family (the one thing that she held on to her entire life) wasn't gonna come back for her. She definitely suffers

>needs the aide of others
Your right, like that time she flew the falcon and Finn was on the turret shooting down the First Order pilots.

Almost of your complaints come of as autistic nitpicking and reeks of typical internet contrarianism. Since you missed my original point, I guess i'll just say it again:
>In a movie called "The Force Awakens," you're seriously gonna nitpick what the hero can and can not do? In a film series with space magic and a tiny green man who can do backflips and spits out philosophy?

>He had never finished a race though and was only able to not die
>Other humans died
>Anakin was the first not to
>a fucking six year old
>not a mary sue

Also, the force isn't some video game skill tree you nerd

>>83015136
Rey is most definitely 12-14 in that shot. How the fuck is a 6 year old gonna survive?

>>83014521
>Lucas as the father decides how it works, Not Disney.
Disney owns the franchise, they can write it however they want to. You keep using phrases like "that's not how movies work" when you don't seem to have even the most basic grasp of what "fiction" means.

>>83014644
>You have a piano and the force is a piano but to play mozart,you have to sit down and practice repetitively to get good.
Mozart was writing symphonies when he was 5 years old.

It's almost like he's a gifted musician.

Or maybe a Mary Sue.

>>83015217
>12-14
I want to see the shot she looks this age, btw the actress for little reys was 8 years old

>>83011760
Explain why Rey was able to out-force him when it came to grabbing that lightsaber though. I could be convinced by everything else in the fight but I don't buy that for a second.

>>83014644
> J.J's a lazy story teller
Ya, most of my issues with TFA kinda stem from this. I thought the first half of TFA was pretty good but the second half was bad (once Rey and Finn meet the entire film turns into a roller coaster, no time to let things set in or give some exposition, etc.). I have faith in Rian though

>>83014682
My theory for how it went down:
>Ben is born. Snoke starts targeting him
>"Hey kid, your family are liars and don't really care about you. The dark you feel around you is inherent to you and good."
>Ben tells him to fuck off
>Years of this
>"Hey kid, your parents don't care about you. See how they're always gone? You don't even want to tell them about me, do you? They're lying to you, I'm telling you the truth."
>Ben is still trying not to listen
>Gets sent to Luke
>"See, your parents don't care about you. They sent you away. Also they're all liars and the Jedi were bad. And you're related to Darth Vader."
>Ben still thinks it's lies, ignores
>Years later, Luke and Ben on their travels come across something that sheds a questionable light on the Jedi. Luke is disturbed but ultimately brushes it off. The Jedi are different now.
>"See, Ben. I was right about the Jedi. I'm right about everything else too. Your family are liars and don't care about you. You're related to Vader and they won't tell you."
>Ben starts to think about this now that it's been years of Snoke whispering in his ear and breaking him down. Snoke was right about this, what about the other things?
>Bloodline happens, Leia and Luke's relation to Vader comes out
>Ben finds out when, while Luke is gone, some of the apprentices approach him about it aggressively.
>Holy shit, Snoke was right about everything. My family are all liars, the Jedi suck, and the darkness is in my blood
>These few apprentices start attacking him
>Kylo goes apeshit and blows the entire temple and kills everyone in it.
>Luke also decides the Jedi should probably end and goes into exile.

>>83015217
No she isn't, she's a little kid. Ridley even calls her five.

She was dropped on Jakku around age 5 and was "cared for" by Unkar Plutt. It had nothing to do with Luke or the Jedi Massacre.

>>83015148
The Force has never worked that way before in Six movies. The Chosen one, Anakin Skywalker was only ever able to do Force Danger sense. He could not lift a ship or call a saber to his hand. He could not use force suggestion or force telepathy or any of it. He could not see people only things, be they ships or otherwise. His powers were literally entry level. And the force Created him. The Force Awakens came out of J.J's retarded mind because he wanted to one up George with the chosen one bit. Go watch Super 8 again, and see for yourself how J.J's mind works. He takes the ideas and works of superior story tellers and then tries to make it his own but it doesn't work because he's an illogical hack. It's why the engine room in Enterprise is literally huger than the ship is supposed to be. It makes no sense but in Jar Jar Jew's mind, it's all cool. Super 8 suffers because of this.

>>83015196
She doesn't know Han, she doesn't know Chewie. She makes meaningful connections with people she's just met? Luke and Han wasn't at all close until the End of ANH, so how could she make meaningful connections with them?

>>83015196
And go and watch the Phantom Menace behind the scenes. George Lucas is the only and final authority on how the force works. Anything thereafter is fanfiction. And don't call it a video game, you incorrigible dummy. Video games takes skill, and to get good you have to know which controls does what. Rey can literally do anything including fly the falcon in a dog fight although she never flew it before and she did so in a dog fight against from birth trained pilots inside a dynamic ever changing obstacle course reminiscent of Lando's run inside the death star during the last battle in Return of the Jedi.
J.J Abrams is a hack, he takes other people's superior ideas and puts them together into some fucked up Frankenstein monster where a mouth is where an asshole should be.

>>83015271
From a baby his father taught him Music though

>>83015662
>From a baby his father taught him Music though
THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS!!!! *AUTISTIC SCREECHING*

ALL KINDS OF DADS TEACH THEIR BABBIES MUSIC FROM A YOUNG AGE BUT THEY ARENT WRITING SYMPHONIES. NOT HOW IT WORKS! MARY SUE MARY SUE!!!!

>>83014507
Kylo literally argued against firing Starkiller and then watched all pensive as it wreaked its destruction.

Then there's also that random plot point of someone leaking information to Leia about an attack. It was never touched upon who did that, but some people theorize that it may have been Kylo in order to protect her specifically. Not sure I buy that but it's possible.

>>83015662
>George Lucas is the only and final authority on how the force works.
George Lucas personally appointed Disney as the new authority on how the force works. What fucking rock do you live under?

>>83015271
And to add, his childhood accomplishments, were they as good as his adult accomplishments? Of course they were not. But, again, At the very least his father taught him music the very same time he taught him words. We saw none of those things. We only saw a child left on a planet and suddenly she's loved by everyone, can fly anything including Custom built craft that only the owners would know which control does what, can shoot any gun, can climb any rock surface, can use advanced force abilities, and is trusted by everyone she meets. Even One Punch Man is hated and distrusted by everyone so he's not even that big of a mary sue himself.

>>83015529
Rian can't fix a dead horse. The Force Awakens cheapened the force and lessened the character of Rey. What can't she do, is a better question? It'd be like watching Fast and Furious 12 doing a across the desert race, less the fun, crazy cast, and beautiful shots and cars. it'd just be card board boxes and no faces driving them at break neck speeds and that's the Last Jedi. Rey literally defeated the main Protagonist. In ESB Vader was shown to have a boss, still was menacing and still jobbed Luke, and that's after Luke trained with Yoda for days and knew about the force and trained with his saber for the better part of three years since ANH. Rey does it all in the first movie, so why wait around for the second, what hurtles must she overcome? Everyone accepts her. She can do anything. She's literally the most powerful force user ever seen on screen.

>>83015785
He had to be taught. He did not magically knew which keys went with which notes and then wrote music. I feel bad for you. the force awakens has made you retarded.

>>83015849
Listen. George Lucas never said that. He sold them the rights to his stories. If they decide to change 40 years of established mechanics then they'd better batter down the hatches for the inevitable shit storm. This is just a spry, at the moment, a little spittle of shit, Torrents of shit's about to fall.

>>83016013
>George Lucas never said that.
Yes he did. When you sell your franchise, you're selling the authority to decide how elements of the franchise work.

Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a 6 year old.

>>83016094
No he didn't. George Lucas sold them his stories, to make profit off of them. Not turn Jedi into vampires because it sounded cool in Jar Jar Jew's head.

>>83015930
>>83015662
>>83014209
>>83013674
>>83012917
now this is a special, thick, syrupy kind of autism.

>>83014209
>>83015930
I come into these threads just to watch you sperg out every time. You are seriously my favorite autist.

>>83016173
that's not how intellectual property works, little guy. you'll learn when you're older.

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Because Chewbacca shot him for reasons unexplained.

And the force willed it or something, who cares? If he had won it wouldn't make his and Rey's character any better/worse. Shit movie written by shitlords for retards.

>>83012475
Shit man, they shoved Vader's inexplicable redemption into one half of one film, and it sort of worked. Well, not really.

Fuck it.

mary sue, mary sue
who's gonna kill mary sue?
maybe you, maybe me?
she will live for eternity
because it's a true, she's mary sue

>>83016371
>for reasons unexplained.
Are you joking or are you a retard?

>>83015271
Mozart was only really good at music though, so he wasn't a Mary Sue.

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>>83016469
I know WHY he shot him, I just disagree with the writing in that regard. Understand that I don't even give a fuck about Han or Chewie as characters, but the way he is written in TFA is stupid.

They turned him into a mindless bipedal dog because to compensate for what can only be assumed as acknowledged bad writing. They knew they had fuck all to go on with Finn/Rey, so they threw in the wound as a failsafe in case anybody asked them at a panel.

And then they fucking had Leia hug Rey anyway. Christ, J.J.

>>83014521
>'No it's not obvious because that's not how movies work. Here's a way, "I Luke sky walker left the order as a disgrace, for I have done something unmentionable, I used the force to create a life, something out of thin air and when I did, i felt the force abandon me out of revulsion. I have broken the natural order of the universe. I have created life void of life, so I hid my error on a back water planet and told some one how to find me if ever my creation causes shit. I want to kill it, but I'm ashamed. Maybe it could live out its life in peace without ever knowing about the force, or its true nature. For I fear it can be the end of us all if it understands what it is. It is the force personified."'

That's actually a cool idea, anon. Hope it's something like that actually.

>>83016231
But it is correct. All of it. If I do say so myself.

>>83016239
We all need a hobby. Mine is seeing to it that the force awakens is seen for what it is. It's not my only hobby but it is one of the more satisfying one that I can put all my hate and angst into and it's not at all destructive in anyway.

>>83016283
I'm almost 50, so I'm a bit older than all of you probably. If you buy kentucky and decide to sell raisin bean paste, sure people who love burritos will love you. People who love chicken will attack you at every opportunity.

>>83016456
She literally has no flaws. Maybe even death will flee from her. And Snoke, the Coke Bloke will job before her all powerful vaginal might just like Ren did.

>>83016717
>But it is correct. All of it.
no it's not.
>I'm almost 50
holy fuck lmao

i hope Luke gonna say Fuck Off to her in next movie

>>83016709
If only it were. Yes I am autistic but i've spent a lifetime imaging the events of the sequel and nothing i imagined was even as shitty as what we got. I even imagined a small terrorist group using a virus to wipe out all sentient life across the galaxy and only those imbued with hate, and suffering and the dark side could survive the onslaught. So even as the newly minted Jedi's is out and about preaching peace and the way of the force, death is coming and only those in love with the ways of the sith can hope to survive. I know i'm not that smart. And I know I'm autistic, but damnit man, I was so hurt when I saw TFA. I threw all my star wars everything in the trash.

>>83016825
Of course i'm correct.


>>83016826
What can Luke teach her though? She's proven to be more powerful than everyone was in six movies. Even Yoda and Sheev would job against her. Luke literally has nothing to show her.

>>83016905
>Of course i'm correct.
no. you are delusional, though. and autistic. and shockingly childish for the age you're pretending to be. numerous people have explained very clearly and concisely why you're wrong. you're just too thick to wrap your head around it. i mean, you still haven't learned proper spelling and grammar, so it's not surprising that you can't understand basic argumentation.

>>83016905
>She's proven to be more powerful than everyone was in six movies. Even Yoda and Sheev would job against her.
She's less powerful than Kylo, who is less powerful than Vader, who is less powerful than Luke. So that's why she's going to see Luke. You need to pay more attention when you watch movies, anon.

>>83017146
>She's less powerful than Kylo
No.

>>83017083
you've biasedly convinced yourself that the force awakens is a great film even though it's not even though normal people has made videos citing how and has shown superlative examples as to how and why it's damaged. Yet you're still defending it and seemingly will continue to do su up until your last breath if need be, which is fine for those out of touch with reality. Cognitive dissonance much?


>>83017146
That's like saying a novice who just picked up a guitar isn't as good as Jimmy Page but should be as good as Eddie Van Halen. That's not how the force works. And the Force Awakens showed Kylo to be stronger than Vader ever was which is fine because he was taught by Luke and is Vader's grandson. Rey's a no one who just was there and could do everything.

>>83017385
>And the Force Awakens showed Kylo to be stronger than Vader ever was
?????

when

i don't like the fight scene but my understanding is that kylo is fairly untrained as well. snoke says this

>>83017385
>you've biasedly convinced yourself that the force awakens is a great film
no i haven't. you don't just get to make things up when you think they'll discredit someone who disagrees with you.

>>83017385
>the Force Awakens showed Kylo to be stronger than Vader
TFA literally spoon feeds it to you that Kylo is less powerful than Vader. How could you possibly have missed such an obvious part of his character?

>>83017220
>No.
Yes. And considerably so. She couldn't even kill him in a fight after he'd been injured twice, once mortally.

>le wounded meme

>>83017475
This is where J.J. fails as a story teller. He says Kylo is untrained yet Kylo uses master level abilities that surpasses anything seen in six movies. You see why Super 8 was a large mountain of shit?

>>83017716
Read the above. You can't say, "Subject A is less than Subject B." And then Show subject A using power that surpasses Subject B. IN which way, was Kylo less than Vader? Forget what Snoke said. Because if you bring that up it only expertly shows how J.J is an awful story teller. He says Kylo sucks but then shows him using more Force Awareness than Vader ever showed. So tell me, in which way was he less than Vader?

>>83017385
>And the Force Awakens showed Kylo to be stronger than Vader
Rey to kylo after mindfuck him: "you're afraid that you will never be strong as Darth Vader"

>>83017961
>Show subject A using power that surpasses Subject B.
How did you quantify this?

"Wow that sure """"SEEEMS"""" more powerful to me" doesn't count.

>>83011359
Jesus just ignore this retard, he doesn't deserve any serious replies

>>83017961
Jj is a hack, but you are completely disregarding the movie exposition for some arbitrary power levels. Kylo is not Vader and will never be

>>83017968
Again, don't say what Kylo believes or Snoke says because he's already surpassed Vader in every way. You see, J.J. is such a horrible story teller that he forgets claims. It's kinda when they were shooting the engine room that is supposed to be in Enterprise yet the inside of he engine room is larger than the Enterprise. J.J. only ever does things because it sounds cool in his head. In execution it all turns to shit.

>>83018014
Vader used his robotic arm to block an attack. Ren stops an energy bolt in mid air. Vader uses force push and pull or he attacks you to stop you, Ren Freezes you. He literally uses every ability Vader used and uses those Vader never did. Like Force interrogation. Vader relied on a torture droid to get the location of the rebel base from Leia. If he could do force interrogation he would have. That was an ability that was beyond him. He did the same thing in ESB when interrogating Han.

>>83018124
It's not power levels, it's knowledge of the force. Hence the meditation. The more you feel the force the more of it you can use. This is what Yoda said and what Lucas said.

>>83013225

It would explain why Luke has that "awww..fuck!" look on his face, probably thinking about all the child support he has to cough up now.

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>>83013459
IS THAT COALBURNERT?

>>83018183
Rey was left on jakku way before kylo went crazy. This theory is shit

>>83018169
>Vader used his robotic arm to block an attack. Ren stops an energy bolt in mid air. Vader uses force push and pull or he attacks you to stop you, Ren Freezes you. He literally uses every ability Vader used and uses those Vader never did. Like Force interrogation. Vader relied on a torture droid to get the location of the rebel base from Leia. If he could do force interrogation he would have. That was an ability that was beyond him. He did the same thing in ESB when interrogating Han.
Okay, so Kylo uses some new/different force abilities. Where are the actual numbers that quantify any of this to require more power than Vader has?

You literally did exactly what I said doesn't count. You've decided in your own head based on your own personal head canon that these things equate to a more powerful force user.

>>83013515
>Doesn't it take many years for Jedi younglings to master the skill of even waving the thing to around?

Luke ,never before having even seen a lightsaber, after 2 hours of instruction from a crazy old desert dweller not only learns how to "swing it around" but also how to deflect with it and taps into his precognition sense.

>>83018169
>He did the same thing in ESB when interrogating Han.
He didn't interrogate Han. Han literally says "they didn't even ask any questions." Vader was torturing Luke's friends so that Luke would sense it and come to him.

I'm starting to think you actually know fuck all about Star Wars.

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>>83018169
>J.J. only ever does things because it sounds cool in his head. In execution it all turns to shit
Sounds like a modern day lucas

>>83018389
Once more, to use higher levels of the force requires more knowledge of the force. It's like making a green saber. to Properly attune a green saber requires a greater understanding of the crystal's mechanics. The only way to do that is to be attuned to the force clearer than you were, this signifies your change from a padawan to a Knight. Lucas cut out that scene in Return, the scene of Luke building his saber with a green crystal a feat that requires you to be especially attune with the force, because him using force suggestion showed he was well on the path at becoming as proficient as Obi Wan was.
Those were always the established Rules. And they shall forevermore be the measure we're to use against abominations Shat out by Disney.


>>83018537
At the very least he had to use it against Leia in fact he calls it, An interrogation droid in which, and if memory serves this I am crystal clear of, "We will get the location of the Rebels base." Then it cuts to the interrogation droid. Vader was not even as competent as the Jedi masters in the temple were. He was a knight still.

>>83018659
Don't you fucking ever compare that shit to greater story tellers. The Prequels were poorly done but in no fucking way were they illogical. Poorly done yes, I'll give you as much, but J.J. is leagues below other film makers. to say nothing of Lucas or Spielberg. So fuck off with that shit.

>>83006002
stop posting you fucking assholes

>>83013478
>"just turn off your brain lol"

>>83006002
because Rey is Lukes father

>>83006002
he got shot

>>83018771
Not until the Force Awakens is unmade or until the last jedi Bombs.

>>83018677
You didn't actually address any of my points.
>to use higher levels of the force requires more knowledge of the force.
How do you know that anything Kylo did can be described as a "higher level" of the force?

Having never seen them before does not automatically mean that they're more powerful. You don't just get to decide on your own that they're more powerful.

The fact that Vader never used force interrogation could simply mean that it's a newly developed force ability, or perhaps an ability Snoke knew how to utilize that the Sith didn't.

>>83018919
>perhaps an ability Snoke knew how to utilize that the Sith didn't.
The Sith are the best force users around

>>83016013
>batter down the hatches
Why would they destroy the very things protecting them?

Anakin couldn't use that many abilities because he was crippled

>people defending TFA
Come on even Jar Jar was better than Rey

>>83019106
>The Sith are the best force users around
The Sith are extinct, friendo. They died with Sheev.

How do you know force interrogation wasn't invented after Vader's death?

How do you know Snoke hasn't surpassed the Sith?

>>83018919
Yes it means they're more capable with the force than others were. Who had more time for meditation than Yoda, Sheev and Vader. Or Obi Wan for that matter? If what you say were true, it would make no difference between making a blue or green but as we've learned from Vader and Lucas via commentary, A green light saber can only be made by some one especially attuned to the force. To get attuned you have to sense it. The more of it you sense the clearer the picture of the force becomes in your mind. Don't allow defense over the Force Awakens to make you sillier. J.J. and Dyke Kennedy dropped the ball. You must accept this and see it as a lost opportunity that can never be reclaimed in the present series. This series is broken as is its protagonist.

>>83019138
They already did with the force awakens. The shit storm comes form the genuine fans. They'll turn on it like how they turned on J.J's other abortions namely the Star Trek films and Super 8.

>>83019264
>They died with Sheev
You poor fool

>>83019264
Sheev is the strongest force user. It's been confirmed ages ago.

>>83019348
>it means they're more capable with the force than others were
how do you know? how did you measure this in an objective way?
>Who had more time for meditation than Yoda, Sheev and Vader. Or Obi Wan for that matter?
so force power is 1:1 to time spent meditating?
>If what you say were true, it would make no difference between making a blue or green but as we've learned from Vader and Lucas via commentary, A green light saber can only be made by some one especially attuned to the force.
What in the living fuck does any of this have to do with Kylo being more powerful than Vader?

>>83015540
Kinda reminds of me of palpatine grooming Anakin. Nice senpai

>>83019348
It's batten down the hatches not batter down. Fuck.

>>83019578
that guy is absurdly stupid.

>>83019461
>Sheev is the strongest force user.
so that means nobody can ever surpass him?

why did you ignore my question?

>>83018779
Star Wars is equivalent to capeshit. Only man children get upset

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>>83015154
He's not a biracial. There is no evidence in his biography.

>>83019511
This is what Lucas and Vader said in Return. Lucas said it in commentary. You cannot get around this no matter how hard you try.

>>83019511
Again, when you're composing music the only way to make a truly virtuoso piece is to be able to sit and do thought experiments. Hence why most Physicist were either instrumentalist or hobbyist. While occupying their minds with their hobbies, they could mediate effectively on the sciences. Interestingly some of Einstein's most profound theories came to the fore once he consulted his mathematician colleagues. To get a clearer picture requires a better understanding of what's possible.


You've gotten lost, neighbor. we were addressing how much of a mary sue Rey was. Others tried to lessen Ren's accomplishment in order to justify Rey's mary sue'dness.

>>83019578
>>83019710
I am still right; rey's a mary sue, J.J's an incompetent story teller and all of you are extremely butt hurt because the truth is out and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

>>83019903
Why did you quote my post twice?
>This is what Lucas and Vader said in Return. Lucas said it in commentary. You cannot get around this no matter how hard you try.
Okay. I don't recall disagreeing with the green lightsabers being a measure of power, so thanks for the redundancy I guess. Kylo Ren and Vader both use red lightsabers.

What I'm trying to get you to do now is quantify and substantiate Kylo's superiority with something other than "I feel like he's more powerful."

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>>83006002
Because he's actually the protagonist

>>83020092
If Vader was knowledgeable in the force as you believe him to be then things like Force interrogation should have been easy enough. But it wasn't. Force Freeze would have been easy enough but it wasn't. Yes, you can say he simply didn't think of Force Freeze or interrogation but we've seen Jedi Masters, all of them use Telepathic intrusion. Vader was only ever able to read Luke's mind and that's it. Sidious was able to read Vader's mind. Sidious undoing was he didn't look deep enough. But Vader could not read Sidious mind or anyone else's mind.

>>83019903
I'm making fun of you for not knowing it's batten down you mongoloid.

>>83020276
>If Vader was knowledgeable in the force as you believe him to be then things like Force interrogation should have been easy enough. But it wasn't. Force Freeze would have been easy enough but it wasn't.
The only thing you know about these abilities is that they haven't been seen before. You don't know how much power they require. Maybe Vader didn't know about them. Maybe the Jedi didn't know about them. Maybe there's more to the Force than what has been shown on screen so far. Maybe the writers are attempting to add new elements to the concept of the force. How is this so fucking hard to understand for you?

>>83015662
>She doesn't know Han, she doesn't know Chewie. She makes meaningful connections with people she's just met? Luke and Han wasn't at all close until the End of ANH, so how could she make meaningful connections with them

Han Solo is famous at this point. Just like with Luke, Rey heard about him but didn't think he was real. Its also implied that Rey is a total loner, the fact that she is making any kind of connections with anyone is huge for her. You would have to be a dumbass not to realize that Rey sees Han as a father figure, fucking kylo figures this out

>>83020276
you're making the presupposition that because an ability has never been seen before, it *necessarily* requires more power to execute. surely you can understand or at least learn why that's not a logical way to think.

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>>83018735
This autist holy shit

>>83020828
it really is jawdropping

>>83006002
He never sparred before.

>>83020237
>Because he's actually the protagonist
who killed his protagonist Father. Aoookaaay.

Star Wars died with Sheev

>>83020392
That's fine, but you're still afraid and that's cool too.

>>83020429
Maybe nothing, if he knew them he would have used them. And he never used them. Jedi Masters did, Yoda did, Obi Wan did, Sheev Did, Vader never used Force interrogation or intrusion.

>>83020683
Rey sees Han as a father figure you say. Interesting

>>83020828
Defend JJ until you rot if you wish. He's a piss poor story teller.

>>83020977
Really?

>>83023237
Do dubs lie?

>>83012475

He killed one of the most beloved cinematic characters in an emo-fuelled REEEEing. No-one wants to cheer for this fag.

>>83023877
I do and he's going to get redeemed just like Han and Leia wanted. Best get used to it now

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>>83020237
I doubt they know who the protagonist is... toy sales might be the final arbiter, that would be the democratic route to take.

>>83018516
And Mary Sue, after precisely 0 hours of training, is capable of defeating a sith apprentice

In reality?

Grrl Power Mary Sue

In canon?

injured and sad

>>83019558
A difference is that it's possible Kylo didn't actually throw the first punch. In this case, a couple apprentices attacked him first because Luke wasn't around to defend him and Kylo went overboard by slaughtering literally everybody in the temple. Which sounds like something Kylo would do if amped up.

They set it up as if Vader's reveal had harmful effects on everyone. Imagine if Ben Solo was already showing signs of being weird and dark. I could see why some Jedi students would feel justified in confronting him when given a reason why that is. I could see it being a self-fulfilling prophecy in a way. The "you think I'm a monster? Well fine, I'll be one then" thing.

>>83007490
Wait, why is Kylo hurt an excuse? Rey got hurled into a tree and blacked out... normally that would cripple someone and probably kill them.

Its no excuse.

>>83008036
Again you rancid camel fucking hump licker, Rey got hurled into a god damned tree and blacked out for ages. She should have been crippled or dead! Kylo should have died too yes but a crippled Jedi vs a crippled Human sand lady should be no competition.

>>83029225
Being emotionally conflicted because of murdering his own father and being shot with a bowcaster which sent whole troops flying along with being hit with a lightsaber is not the same as being thrown at a tree.

>>83029294
>She should have been crippled or dead!
But she wasn't crippled. Or dead.
Kylo clearly was crippled in various ways

What's your point

>>83029225
>>83029294
she wasn't injured, though.

Bad writing