Why didn't the Enterprise have an escort fleet?

Well isn't its job to explore the universe? The whole go where no one has gone before? It's more of an expedition venture than a combat one.

It's a diacoverer, you doofus.

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Learning that escort vessels were a thing really made me lose my infatuation with the Navy. How can you literally put ships there to serve as a screen to protect other, bigger ships?

>>82959968
A what??

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>>82959802
>but they do that all the time

>>82959980
Different ships have different capabilities and advantages. Think of it as covering the big one's blind spots. The little ones can't carry a host of fighter jets, but they are more maneuverable and generally have better weapons.

>>82959802
Why don't they have a squadron of starfighters? Star Trek's awkward battles between single, monstrous ships are kind of like watching whales have sex.

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>>82959980
One ship can't do everything anon.

>>82960013
I think he meant 'discoverer'

>>82959802
It's pretty stupid that they send ships out solo. Even just pairs of ships would open up countless tactical options. And make solving the challenges in like half the episodes trivial.

>>82959980

Those ships aren't there to 'take one for the team' they are there to literally shoot down incoming missiles and submarines

They have no intention of being blown up, just like infantry screen artillery or fighter jets cover a bomber group

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>tfw you realise 95% of the problems encountered by the Enterprise wouldn't be an issue if ships travelled in a group of 2 or 3

I liked in Enterprise though, when they were being chased by Klingons, they just jumped to the Sol System and the Klingons got btfo by 8-12 starfleet ships

The idea that there were never any ships around Earth earlier or in the recent movie really pissed me off

>>82959802
Comparing the Enterprise to a military vessel shows you didn't understand Star Trek at all

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>>82961492
>8-12

Your memory is a little zanier than reality. It was just 3 ships. One "Intrepid-type" and two "Delta-type" (pic related).

>>82961553
>multiple ships always means a military/hostile force

If you had your way, all Starfleet ships would be unarmed sitting ducks.

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>>82959802

I thought the Enterprise was a research vessel for scientific exploration. It was armed, just as many modern and past historical exploration missions on Earth were.

"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before."

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>>82959802
That is the dumbest analogy I've ever read in my entire life and everyone here is stupider for having read it. Myself included.

>>82959802

A lot of the time the enterprise does not need to interact with a planet as it can stay in orbit or away as they send down an away team. Sometimes the enterprise isn't alone though and that is fine.

>>82959802
The Galaxy class was like putting party banners and balloons on the battleship Iowa and calling it an """"explorer"""".

>>82959940
You don't send the flagship out to explore.
Roddenberry was a hack.

>>82963978
>you don't send your most advanced, powerful and impresive ship with top tier crew to explore
>you should send some shitty ass low class boat with red shirts only m8

>>82964139
You send mid level ships to explore.
You use your big impressive, advanced ship along borders keeping an eye on your enemies.
Wish is what the Enterprise actually did. Sometimes.

>>82961109
fighters aren't necessarily more realistic anyway. if you want realistic space combat it would be two ships firing tungsten rods at each over 10AU. also every ship would be covered in anti-reflective paint so you couldn't even see them. no sound either, to be honest realistic space combat would be pretty boring unless you made it like a submarine battle.

>>82963978
Was the original 1701 Enterprise the flagship or did it become that after it was the only one to survive its 5 year exploration mission.

Which by the way if 11 of your most powerful and advanced ships get destroyed because you keep sending them out on their own maybe they should have more of a "fleet" emphasis in Starfleet.

>>82964412
>Was the original 1701 Enterprise the flagship

No. Enterprise D was the flagship.

>>82959980
You should watch the movie Battleship, it'll get your enthusiasm back up and explain all that.

>>82959940
>le "no federation warships" meme

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>>82964311
That isn't realistic at all.

>firing tungsten rods
Wouldn't be as effective as torpedoes
>over 10AU
You could use impulse engines to dodge those attacks
>anti-reflective paint
Why? Sensors aren't reliant on visual targeting

>>82964593
Tungsten rods are fucking OP against ground targets though.

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Because it's not a Warship retard, it's an exploration ship that primarily stays in Federation territory.

>Deep Space Nine a Galaxy Class Ship is sent through the Wormhole
>It has an escort of smaller ships

>>82964481
I guess that's technically correct but i meant during the TOS ERA

>>82959940
the original yeah but once they encountered hostiles you would think they would send out a fleet

>>82965244
They did, they sent a small force to establish diplomatic contact with the Gorn.

>>82959802
Have fun staying in a formation smaller than several thousand kilometers for more than an hour.

In space speed and distances are pretty wild. Even in low-earth orbit a few m/s difference in velocity will cause orbits to differ greatly and vehicles to drift apart real far.

>>82965402
They have really great computers in Star Trek, I'm sure they can synchronise their engines into parallel trajectories, or at least activate a system that will auto-correct if they drift over time.

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>>82965571
Modern spess ships and satellites do this too, and it's a pain in the ass, and a huge waste of delta-V.

TL;DR: if you want to stay with something, dock with it.

>>82965571
>Computer, match their course and speed
Was said countless times.

>>82965172
The enterprise was never referred to as the flagship in TOS era.
Its just another ship. We don't even know if it was the most technically advanced ship the federation had.

>>82965086
>two runabouts
>escorts

hurr

>>82965719
>>82965402

Proven on countless occasions to not be a problem.

>>82965922
I think it became the flagship after Starfleet adopted its emblem as the Federation symbol.

Std is spitting on that but I don't think anyone cares about std at this point.

>>82965882
>Computer, match their course and speed
Literally did nothing, if they're in orbit.

>Computer, set up a rendezvous course and kill velocity near the closest point
This is what you should to.

People think ST is MUH SERIOUS SCI-FI but they mostly ignore orbital physics.

>>82966043
Trek was never hard sci-fi and never claimed to be such. They have magical beings and space combat is like in atmospheric combat.

Babylon 5 is the only one to get zero G right in that regard.

>>82966043
>>Computer, match their course and speed
>Literally did nothing, if they're in orbit.
Yes it did, it put them into the same orbital path and speed. I'm sure I remember it being used to hide at the other side of a planet to someone a few times.

>>>Computer, set up a rendezvous course and kill velocity near the closest point
>This is what you should to.
If you want to trigger their planetary defences, sure

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>>82966161
>this whole post
What the fuck retard.

>>82959802
Why does the flagship of the Federation have 1000 civilians on board? Then act surprised when aggressive races feel no remorse in attacking them despite this fact

>>82966208
I'm certain there's at least one international law irl that makes riding into combat loaded with civilians a war crime. Human shields and all that.

>>82959802

The Federation just doesn't do that sort of thing, their ships almost always operate solo. No, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but that's what they do.

>>82964412
>it was the only one to survive its 5 year exploration mission.

I never liked that bit of lore they created post-TOS. It's one of those things they think up to sound dramatic but actually makes it seem terrible if you think about it for more than a second. If you lose 11/12 ships (and over 4000 people), it wasn't a successful class.

>>82964204
The Enterprise never seemed to be more than a few hours warp away from the Neutral Zone.

What is the naval equivalent of mortars? Why not just lob those at the carrier's parked planes.

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>>82966380
The Federation is never more than a few hours warp away from the Neutral Zone.

>>82966208
Picard was an Ambassador basically. What they meant by "Flagship" wasn't the military sense of the ship that the commander of a fleet would use, but some kind of mobile advert for why you want to join The Federation (look how smart and advanced we are, look at this luxury, you can have this too if you just let us be your bosses forever). And Picard was the chief salesman of the USS Propaganda.

>>82959802
Federation aren't easily startled cucks like the USA.

>>82966418
Because even if you get close enough, the SeaWhizz will shoot it down no problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt6TbAZGgYw#t=36s

>>82961109
Because phasers are ridiculously accurate, they're capital-ship grade weapons with the accuracy of point defence systems. Starfighters wouldn't do shit since they'd be too small to mount proper shielding onto, maneuverability is of limited use in Trek, you're not going to dodge weapons with any reliability.

Star Trek weaponry also draws power from the ship's warp core a lot, so smaller ship means smaller warp core means weaker weapons.

>>82966511
Wow.

>>82966511
Unless it's a Chinese hypersonic cruise missile.

>>82960013
it covers dias

sorry

Enterprise is not supposed to be an aircraft carrier more like a shop of the line.

The GOAT Trek scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Visl7cK0g

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Never seen the show here.
Are all these required viewing or do people usually skip some of them?

This thread sucks. It was started by an ignorant normie. Learn about Star Trek before posting, Chadlet. Why are you even here?

>>82967231
Yes. But watch the original series and ONLY the original series.
Everything afterwards is pretty shit with very very few exceptions.

>>82966040
Is std out? Also great acronym

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>>82967231
Watch every episode of whatever you pick. I can't say whether to watch the remastered or original versions of TOS because there are a few different remasters and some are better, some are worse. There's no point watching 2 versions of each on your first go though.

>>82967567
The trailer dropped the other day and boy is it bad. Jj lenseflare, Dutch angles and barely any lighting. Massive contradictions to established canon. Awful set design. They ruined the Klingons and the plot is the cliche old an ancient evil awakens.

Just forget it exists.

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What's the smallest change you can make to Voyager to make it great?

>>82959980
Big ships are an really easy target. And big trophy for the enemy. Just look the Bismack or the Yamato at World War II.

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>>82969379
Remove Braga

>>82969379
have it run on syndication not upn

>>82961109
>>82966516

Didn't the Federation have fighters/corvettes during the Dominion War?

>>82959802
Starfleet ships have shields. Escorts are kinda the shields of the carrier. So if the carrier had shields it wouldn't need escorts and could go alone.

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>>82969498

or the Titanic

Icebergs 1
Titanic 0

>>82970149
They did. The ships that Wesley and his cadet buddies also looked like fighters, and I think it's unlikely they'd manufacture some just for cadet display groups to use and nobody else.

Did you miss the entire point of the show? Starfleet are explorers, not military conquistadores. They have weapons for self-defense, not for destroying anyone they see.

>>82970430

Ironically enterprise was/is the most powerful-est ships in the entire show

>>82959802
Because the navy commanders in Star Trek are crazy nut jobs that can't organize shit.
That's the canon explanation.

>>82970520
Not even close though, any Breen ship could destroy it, and I'd put bets on a Romulan Warbird over a Galaxy class. Then there's all those mega-powerful alien ships that Picard talked down

why did they send a single ship in VOY to capture the Maquis?

>>82970739
They had a man on the inside, and the Intrepid class was very powerful even compared to Federation ships, nevermind a shitty Maquis runabout that it could store in its hold.

>>82959802
Because Star Trek is retarded, that's why.

>>82970276
>So if the carrier had shields it wouldn't need escorts and could go alone.

You know nothing about maritime warfare.

>>82970430
>exploratory ships can't travel in groups

>>82970520

the defiant was supposed to have all its power and was faster and more agile becuz no science labs and families and luxuries

>>82971128
but space is big, by sending single ships in more directions they can cover more ground
also this way when they meet the god alien of the week only one ship is potentially lost

>>82966351
>but actually makes it seem terrible

I think its just to show how dangerous space is especially when a very small fraction of the local galaxy has been explored.

>>82970276
This is so painfully stupid I really don't know where to begin

>>82959980

it's not like guided missile destroyers are just cannon fodder, they'll blow you the fuck out long before you ever reach them either..

>>82971265
You should begin by stop being stupid and realising he's right

>>82971300
Escort vessels serve a variety of functions, strategic, tactical, and otherwise. Shields just let you tank damage. You're retarded, anon.

>he
"He" huh?

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>>82970343

>think it's unlikely they'd manufacture some just for cadet display groups to use and nobody else.

ahem

>>82971370
>a variety of functions, strategic, tactical, and otherwise
Well, they're not a military so they don't need the one function you mentioned here, got any others?

>You're a mongoloid idiot poopoo head
Do I win now?

Space combat in TV and film is basically retarded in any real sense, so who cares how it's portrayed.

>>82971444
>Starfleet isn't a military
Yeah, we're done I guess. Koolaid can't be undrank.

>>82971462
nuBSG did a good job with it

>>82971393
>>82970343
>just for cadet display groups to use and nobody else.

>Beechcraft T-6 Texan II
>2 Operational history
>2.1 United States
>2.2 Canada
>2.3 Greece
>2.4 Israel
>2.5 Iraq
>2.6 Mexico
>2.7 Morocco
>2.8 New Zealand
>2.9 United Kingdom
So no. Furthermore, that's used for training pilots for similar aircraft, why would they train people in Starfleet to use fighters if there aren't any in real use?

>>82964204
The Federation's goal is exploration, not war. Besides, there were plenty of other Galaxy-class starships in the fleet, the Enterprise was just the first. Also, was the Galaxy-class really their most powerful ship in terms of weaponry? Kirk's Constitution class was the flagship, but I'm pretty sure it was outgunned by the Miranda class.

And if you didn't notice, Picard wasn't much of a combat tactician. They put him in charge for diplomacy and exploration.

>>82971624
Armed explorers who have military rank and hierarchy, and who engage in combat operations against governments hostile to the Federation.

>>82967711
Enterprise is comfy as fuck if you don't like Scott Bakula you're a fag.

>>82971570

>similar aircraft


what are you smoking, there's no prop plane fighters anymore

>>82971772
First your learn in a prop trainer, then you learn in a jet trainer, then you learn in a big boy jet. This is not difficult anon.

>>82971822

lrn2 read a thread, the original argument was wesleys cadet trainer would be used in combat because they wouldn't design craft just for cadets

>>82971181
The Defiant has less power than the Enterprise. Heck, even an Excelsior-class ship (with proper upgrades) can stand up to the Defiant.

The strength of the Defiant is that it's much easier to manufacture 100 Defiant-class ships than 100 Galaxy-class ships. Which makes it infuriating that they never did.

>>82971570
it was the artistic team or whatever is called
it was just for show

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>>82971870
You learn to read, I'm >>82970343, and >>82971822 is right, I was saying they wouldn't have fighters only for cadet display teams to use and not have any other form of jets in the fleet. And did you miss the original part where I mentioned that the person I was replying to was also correct, and we know they do and have seen fighters used in Star Trek? webm related.

>>82971938
because they actually sucked

>>82971232
The safety of the ship and crew should come first. Like was already mentioned, there were several problems faced by the Enterprise that could've been better handled by just having one or two more ships assisting.

>>82971938

Defiant vs Lakota was a battle of pulling punches

(also Defiant had 2 dead, Lakota had 24)

>>82972210

One could just as easily argue putting smaller ships out there puts the people on those in more danger

>>82959980

Ships are shit at direct combat. They're transports, portable landing strips and bombardment platforms.

A fleet, even with carriers, stands no chance against a decent airforce.

>Federation has had constant hostilities with neighbours for a gorillion years
>only started to design and build warships during the dominian war

>>82972504
Wrong

>>82972533
Right

The defiant was only built because of the borg threat

>>82959802
Starships are more like submarines than carriers
Subs usually go out on their own unless they're protecting a carrier

>>82972391

that's why murrica has its 11 floating penises

it fields a navy air group bigger than most countries entire airforce (fighter wise anyways the bombers and awacs can just circumnavigate the globe from home)

>>82966511

Those things are absolute last resorts, they won't work against sustained fire as they run out of ammo after about 30 seconds.

>>82959802
clearly it didn't need an escort fleet

>>82972504

TNG started during an entire generation of peace

inb4 cardassian war that was more of a police action

>>82970343
Nova Squadron was an aerobatic team

Reminder that if you get rid of the english guy, the pilot and the engineer Enterprise would have been kino

>>82972548
>Right
No, you weren't.

>The defiant was only built because of the borg threat
So now you admit that it was built 5+ years before the Dominion War rather than designed during it?

>>82972687
Which always struck me as naive

>>82972772

>eh doesn't like Trip

yankee detected

>>82959802
The Federation is big man, and they're pushing the borders on all sides at the same time

Gotta spread the resources

>>82966108
You are forgetting the Expanse fampai. I will forgive you this time.

>>82972504
why build warships when their normal ships do the job just fine and when the war is over can be used for other things
defiant is totally useless in peace time since it has no space for anything else

>>82966043
>People think ST is MUH SERIOUS SCI-FI

Literally nobody thinks this.

>>82972647

Carriers are hopelessly vulnerable, P700s and equivalents take them out with ease.

>>82972894
>Expanse
>hard scifi
I sure am loving that magical alien infestation, hoo boy.

>we never got to see the Scimitar in the firefight with that federation squadron on the other side of the nebulat

>>82972951

to be fair, at the time of TOS other scifi shows were all wacky, like lost in space, dr who, time tunnel etc.

the TOS movies got much more "hard"

this fruity stuff only started with TNG

>>82966421
Hey cool ap-

>dat Betazed

wrong

>>82972973

nobody really knows the carrier battle groups ability to intercept them because it's never happened.

>>82973095
>the TOS movies got much more "hard"
Like when a man and a machine merged together to become a higher, non-physical form of life. Or when they terraformed a planet in seconds. or when they resurrected a dead man who de-aged to a boy and then re-aged to a man. Or when they traveled through time. Or when an energy monster at the center of the galaxy sent psychic visions to Spock's brother. Or when Kirk kissed Kirk.

>>82973095
TOS is wacky too

>>82973105

why it makes sense, they'd be close to cardie space, they were the only major fed world captured by the dominion

>>82972504
dumbass

>>82972931
Uh, patrols n sheit?

>>82973226

I'm saying hard scifi is more of a modern concept

You can't blame trek its roots come before it

>>82972931
Warships wouldn't have as much overhead as they don't have all the extra science and life support shit. They can be crewed by fewer people, and are less expensive to build than the giant multitasker behemoths the Fed loves.

>>82974036
The Federation is a peaceful coalition of planets. Starfleet's job is to explore and transport and defend, not attack. Warships are inefficient when your goals aren't war

>ITT butthurt Trekies

>>82974069
>Warships are inefficient when your goals aren't war

Again, total naivety

>>82974069
>Warships are inefficient when your goals aren't war
Fuck, you're stupid. Warships do more than make war, they handle security. They ensure that shipping and transit lanes are safe. They handle a myriad of other tasks that don't make sense for giant overdesigned superships.

Seriously, there's a reason that nations dump so much cash into peacetime navies and typically the strongest power, economically or otherwise, has the best navy

>>82974144
>They handle a myriad of other tasks that don't make sense for giant overdesigned superships.

What, besides combat, can the defiant do better than the Enterprise?

>>82974144
>They aren't just good for wars, what about battles, skirmishes and fisticuffs?
Those are just smaller wars which is why warships are good for them.

>>82974117
>Again, total naivety
>>82974144
>Fuck, you're stupid
Not an argument.

>>82974117
Yeah well, that's part of the charm of Star Trek.

>>82974167
>What, besides combat, can the defiant do better than the Enterprise?

https://youtu.be/Dyttwwrbdyk?t=228

>>82974117
>be """peaceful""" conglomeration of planets
>goal is """exploration""" and """discovery"""
>your starfleet """isn't a military organization"""
>build """science""" and """exploration""" vessels
>said vessels can go toe-to-toe with alien vessels of the same size
>put civilians in your """ships of peace""" for good measure
>federation dindunuffin we wuz juz exploran and shiet
>alien shitlords can't claim right to preemptive attack because federation vessels were for exploration and has civilians
>the starfleet setup is being naive
>thinking like a klingon
Retard

>Guys Star Trek: Discovery is set in the prime universe, it's not related in any way to the JJ Abrams movies.
>looks just like the JJ Abrams movies

>>82974265
Galaxy weenies BTFO

>>82974144
>Warships do more than make war, they handle security. They ensure that shipping and transit lanes are safe

other smaller ships already do that, planets have planetary defenses a police and there are other things patrolling the internal space
there's no need of something like a Defiant patrolling internal federation space

>>82974265
That looks an awful lot like combat

>>82974167
>what, besides being food, can a banana do?

>>82971393
Why did you post a T-6?
I'm an instructor on a military base that flies these. For what purpose did you post this?

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It was an exploration/survey vessel.
Like HMS Endeavour/Captain Cook.

>>82974265
>attack ship with shield disabled

Woah, impressive.

>>82974345
dildo, but arguably a cucumber or any other harder and smoother vegetable or fruit would do

>>82974345
>Claim it has lots of functions other than war
>Get asked what they are
>What? You want some functions other than war? LMAO

>>82965043
Torpedoes are megaton yield weapons. You could wipe out a city with a few.

>>82972808
They were naive. Picard even says they were complacent after they first encounter the Borg.

>>82966733
>not this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VhSm6G7cVk

>>82975985
I'd call it more negligent than naive, but at least Picard has that moment where he understands Starfleet, and by extension the Federation, fucked up.

>>82976607
hi 'dit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5J_qn93Nkc

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>>82964593
>shaky cam and snap zooms

>>82976847
Galactica had some pretty dope battle scenes. The liberation of New Capirca, the destruction of the Resurrection Ship, and even the battle at the Armory from the pilot trilogy are GOAT.

A big reason why the show started to really suck near the end is cause they stopped showing any big fleet battles

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>>82976935
>The liberation of New Capirca
Still gets me wet

>>82965086
>flag ship
>not being decked out with latest technology including weaponry.

>>82977188
>latest technology

Never got a holo-doctor

>>82977296
It may have had one, Beverly said she swore she'd never use it and Pulaski wouldn't have wanted it activated either.

>>82977296
>never got a liability
because they were smart

>>82963610
>battleship
>luxury crew quarters with family on board

>>82977400
It had a Battle Bridge anon

Just because Picard was too much of a sociopath to use it, doesn't negate the fact that the Galaxy class was designed to be a lady on the street and a freak in bed

>>82977456
>red alert everyone, drop your things and let's move to the battle bridge which is in the lower section of the ship, hopefully nothing happens in the several minutes it would require

honestly those ships are badly designed

>>82977578
it's accessed by a turbo lift

Key word - turbo

because the Federation likes to pretend that Star Fleet is not a military organization. Until some alien empire starts pushing their commnist asses in.

>>82965719
Advanced civilizations, including the Federation, in Star Trek have long stopped caring about the most efficient way to travel in space, at least for sub-light speeds. No need to think about delta-v when you have the energy to power up replicators and warp engines.

>>82971370
Arleighs are practically a carrier's shields as they serve as missile and submarine defence. If a carrier had actual shields there would be no need for separate ships. You wouldn't even need planes if the horizon wouldn't block your sensors and weapons.

When the fuck was O'Brien in a war with the Cardies?

Before he was on the Enterprise getting bantered by Riker?

>>82961109
>Why don't they have a squadron of starfighters?

In one episode, where they were all being brainwashed to do some aliens bidding, they went up against an alien race that used squadrons of starfighters. They completely annihilated them, because a tiny starfighter would have extremely limited shields, and the enterprises lasers/phasers are 100% accurate.

If they were only using projectile-type weapons, it would make sense, but not against Sci-Fi grade lasers/phasers that just swat fighters like bugs.

Enterprise D was a luxury hotel because the original concept was about enlightened human beings exploring the unknown with weapons and defense tech that make any threat a non-issue for the plot.

Later they added military situations to spice up the series but kept the luxury and the families because they were already established.

>>82977727
Before he was on the Enterprise as warrant officer running the teleporters.

O'Brien was an enlisted man and what passes for a Marine in Star Fleet. Then he fought a war against the Cardassians. Got tired of crawling around with a phaser rifle. So he become a warrant officer engineer. Then he was on the USS Phoenix as transporter chief/engineer. Then the Enterprise.

>>82977885
Wasn't everyone in Starfleet an officer? You have to go through the Academy right?

>>82977052
>>82976935
Fuck, I love that show so much, but I can't rewatch it with that shitty fucking ending fire-branded into my retina.

>>82971976
god what a cluster fuck star trek battles are.

star trek writers and directors need to understand that space battles should be taking place at light seconds/minutes of distance. Not knife fighting ranges.

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>>82977727
Yeah, back on the USS Rutledge with Maxwell

>>82959802
Flagship is literally a meaningless word in Star Trek it does have a meaning IRL but since it's not being met (no flag officer on board) it doesn't mean the same in Trek

>>82977879
>but kept the luxury and the families because they were already established.

With the constant near-death experiences, you'd have to be a Class A psycho to have your family on that ship.

Didn't help that Enterprise got its ass kicked all the time, and only got saved by some act of God.

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>>82977951
But the ending was perfect, and it was clear from day 1 that religion was an important part of the show.

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>>82977963
Reminder that when O'Brien joined the Enterprise he was a helm officer, before being demoted to Transporter Chief

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Because the Federation is a bunch of benevolent conquerers, unlike the Romulans, Klingons, and Cardassians who are direct malevolent conquerors. Conquering is easy; its occupying the territory that is the challenge. Romulans learned that the hard way with the Remans; Klingons with Kriossians, and Cardassians famously with the Bajorans. The Federation has never had to occupy anyone. They play the explorer, tell them about the "paradise" the Federation is, the dangers that lye at their borders, and "suggest" with a bunch of diplomats and ambassadors how beneficial with would be for them to join. They will even tactfully wait and let entire planets suffer under occupation like Bajor only to excuse themselves with "Muh Prime Directive." THEN when the Bajorans finally kick the Cardassians off here comes the Federation with "missions of mercy."

Why do you think so many episodes of TNG and TOS were about escorting ambassadors to planets? It was to offer them membership or prepare them for future membership if they showed potential. With this strategy you get pic related.

The only others who did something like this were the Ferengi Alliance only instead of peace offered entire planets the promises of profits.

>>82978060
Worf was a helm officer too. So was Geordi.

>>82959802
>Why didn't the Enterprise have an escort fleet?

Because apart from the Romulan's everyone else is like Somalian pirates compared to the Federation with the exception of the Borg who is a retard anyway.

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>>82977922
no. O'Brien, and the Maque on Voyger, were all Warrants.

the shows just did a poor job of showing enlisted and warrants because the story is focused on the senior officers.

this is from Undiscovered Country. the ones in the jump suits with the tan shoulders are the enslited.

>>82978096
Was anyone but Troi ever promoted on the Enterprise?

Is that where careers go to die?

>>82978031
>dude lets send all our space-age tech into the fucking Sun, because technology is dangerous
>nevermind the fact it wouldn't fucking matter, as history clearly proved.
>also lets breed with these neanderthals and completely forget every single lesson that we learned
>also here's a clip of God just trolling humanity for the lulz

>>82978117
DEM ENLISTED TIDDIES

>>82978121
Worf started out a junior lieutenant and ended as a lieutenant commander in Generations. Geordi started out a junior lieutenant too and was a lieutenant commander mid TNG.

>>82978117
Like damn near everything, the was a legacy of Gene Roddenberry who constantly fought for everyone in Star Fleet to be an officer.

>>82959980
>How can you literally put men there to serve as a screen to protect other, more important men?

Welcome to military 101.

>>82978121
there was one episode where the side arc was about troi taking a promotion test to become a command officer. she kept failing until she realized she had to order people to their deaths to save the ship.

>>82978114
That's bullshit though. The Enterprise got its ass kicked all the time. Remember when a bunch of Ferengi with 2 old Bird of Preys they bought second hand defeated them?

>>82978263
i know, that's what I meant

Do you think ever commander in Starfleet had to order Geordi to his death to get the rank? Who the hell did he piss off

>>82978263
>Did anyone BUT TROI get promoted
>Well there was that one episode about Troi getting promoted
u wot m8

>>82978114
Klingons are uncharastically competent, considering their caveman dogma. They seem to outclass the Federation at every turn, and in a parallel universe, they were about to win a war with them.

No way in hell a race like that would ever develop space flight, let alone flight.

>>82978274
>they don't use shields 24/7 when their enemies have access to cloaking tech

that's how they got fucked every time by klingon or romulan ships. They were completely outclassed.

>>82978296
On other ships the role of Geordi is substituted for the highest ranking black officer. Doesn't matter if it's the ship's doctor, he's the one who has to be sent to his death first. The programmer was a fan of 20th century horror movie cliches.

>>82978319
Klingons have a caste/feudal society. All we ever see really are the warrior caste and the houses that have the most military power. There are klingon scientists and businessmen. The warriors also only recently became dominant in their history. Sometime after TOS, during the movies.

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>>82978319
>No way in hell a race like that would ever develop space flight, let alone flight.

>>82978319
Klingons in TNG are at the end of their empire, it's like compare prime roman empire to the one right before the fall

>>82978379
Federation signs a treaty where they promise not to develop their own cloaking tech.

They still did, once, anyways. Which ends up making something far better than cloaking tech. Riker bitches out, and he and picard reveal it to the Romulans.

>>82978478
Only space niggers need cloaking tech

>>82978478
Didn't that super-ultra high-tech spaceship in DS9, that Sisko piloted, have cloaking tech?

>>82978478
Romulans were already on it that's why they were following them. Also considering Federation security and counter intelligence it's better to destroy it otherwise everyone from Romulans to Cardassians would have it in the span of a month.

>>82978535
Which they borrowed from the Romulans, once the pointy eared fags realised the Founders might actually be a bigger threat

>>82978559
and the romulans told them to only use it in the Gamma Quadrant. until the war really got going anyways.

Did they ever explain why Romulans had fucked up foreheads, while Vulcans looked normal besides eyebrows?

>>82978625
Inbreeding

>>82978546
>considering Federation security and counter intelligence
Outside of that one black bag group in DS9, Starfleet intel and CI was just horrible. It'd be interesting to see a show about that black bag group though.

>>82963978
What if it's the flagship of the exploration fleet?

>>82978060

Under Captain Maxwell he mentioned he was tactical officer on the Rutledge

I sware potato niggers career went backwards

>>82978319
yeah, war doesn't drive technological advancement or anything

>>82979831
It really doesn't. At best, your weapons tech gets more funding and improves. For everything else, war slows it down massively because all the people who would be leading normal lives buying things that drive advancement are now in the army or having to deal with rations.

>>82978605
>>82978559

Then they also demanded a Romulan officer was on the ship, but she just disappeared without explanation the next episode

>>82979958
Worf """accidentally""" shot him out of an airloc

>>82979292
>I sware potato niggers career went backwards
Japanese. Hate. Ghost.

>>82979958
she was qt

>>82980033
>Him

>>82979957
That's some quality berninomics, friendo. How is your Something Studies degree coming along?

>>82980055
>Japanese Hate Ghost
>Hate Ghost
>Ha-Gho
>Keiko

how deep does this go?

>>82978091
Hence >>82974274
The UFP scam was brilliant

>>82980116
>Believing in free market capitalism is now bernienomics

'no'

>the saucer section could be separated to allow civilians to escape
>it didn't have warpdrive
>didn't have real weapons

so was it just to bait the enemy into attacking it while the section with real weapons and engines took advantage of the situation?

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>>82959802
Star Trek was, is, and will always be fucking retarded. Even Star Wars which is supposed to be a complete fantasy and does not take itself half as seriously happens to be more realistic in terms of battle tactics, engineering specs, and warfare.

I outgrew Star Trek when I turned 13 and so should you.

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>>82979958
She got what she thought would be a better job as Seska on Voyager, I'm not sure why they didn't replace her with another Romulan though

>>82980248

oh look star destroyers! lets just push them into eachother!

>>82980234
It had the main phaser array, and if you separate at warp the saucer will continue at warp which is better than nothing.

>>82980234
Yes, that's what the civilians were there for. Bonus diplomatic clout if the enemy actually fires on the saucer with the civilians

>>82980318
That scene was awesome and the tactics were flawless

>>82980358
phasers are toys, the torpedos were the real weapons

>>82980248
>more realistic in terms of battle tactics
>capital ships launching tiny fighters with weapon yields that can't even hurt the other capital ships
>oh wait tiny fighter can ram capital ship and blow it up

>>82961492
>The idea that there were never any ships around Earth earlier
There were until the plot demanded the Enterprise do something it normally woudn't. They had that big mushroom shaped station that could dock a dozen or so ships plus the Mars shipyards that had dozens more floating around every time they were shown.

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>>82980420
>capital ships launching tiny fighters with weapon yields that can't even hurt the other capital ships
That's what bombers and torpedoes are for.
Fighters are just the escort for the bombers, as the name indicates.

>>82978478
Ah yes the vastly superior Federation cloaking tech buried inside an asteroid. That's the episode where Riker dicks about on the NX-01 with Captain Archer.

>>82980666

>"chef" was referred to offscreen for four seasons

you are now aware that the entirety of enterprise was Riker's holonovel

>>82980599
>bombers
We're talking about space combat here. The kinds of torpedoes that can damage a ship in Star Trek are big enough that they can use them as coffins, small ships can't fire them and you can't drop bombs in space.

>>82980584
The mushroom must have been demolished by the time of DS9. Remember when the cadets blew up the entire Earth power grid? Sisko had to use the single ship near Earth to transport around all troops on Earth.

>>82980666
>watching the adventures of a crew guilty of genocide and other crimes while trying to decide which course of action to take

>>82980884
So that explains the decon shower rubbing lotion scenes.

>>82980884
Yeah, the final episode confirmed that

>>82980911
Then how did that shuttle Data flew in Insurrection fire torpedoes at the Soma ship?

>>82981108
it wasn't a shuttle, it was the Admiral's ship

>>82980911
>he thinks a coffin is big relative to a strategic bomber
Why are you so shit, anon?

>>82981175
>Y-Wing
>not small as fuck
the engines are what takes most of the space

>>82981175
We're talking about space combat here. What class of starship is this bomber you keep bringing up?

>>82981108
see >>82981166 and shuttles don't have torpedoes, the smallest class of vessel that does is runabout class, and those are clearly lower yield than the kinds on starships.

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>>82981284
Y-Wing - Bomber / A-10 Warthog
X-Wing . Multirole Fighter-Bomber (Escort) / F-16; F-35
A-Wing - Fighter (Escort) / F-15; F-18; F-22

In the original movies Luke destroys the Death Star on his X-Wing as a last resort, the bombing run had basically failed at that point.

>>82981445
a-wing was pure interceptor, do you even star wars

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>>82981506
>>82981445
You're in the wrong quadrant, nigga

>>82961168
diamonds

Best Trekthread in a long while.

>>82981166
>>82981284
It was literally a shuttle, the scout ship from Star Trek Armada. We see it flying around as it attacks the Soma and Picard docks with it later while singing a British Tar.

Yes the admirals ship was a shuttle that could fire torpedoes.

>It's a Quark cucks Worf episode

>>82982345
what is "cuck" ?

>>82966418
>What is the naval equivalent of mortars?
bomb ketch, they stopped using those over 100 years ago.

>>82983484
You

>>82966418
Because high angle artillery doesn't have the range necessary to engage a carrier

>>82983610
>high angle indirect fire
Fix't

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>>82981506
>Y-Wing - Bomber / A-10 Warthog
Tired of this meme.

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Science ships travel alone because they're science ships, not military ships. By OPS logic we should cover real science vessels with escort ships.

>>82977954
Yeah they should be realistic!

>>82977954
>star trek writers and directors need to understand that space battles should be taking place at light seconds/minutes of distance
Did you know, Star Trek ships can move faster than that?

>>82985477
That's some quality false equivalence you've got going on there friend. Did it come with your vulcan ears or did you buy it separately?

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>>82972669
True but ships usually have more than one CIWS, and sustained fire may be interrupted when they figure out where you're shooting from. Also there is the SeaRAM which uses the Phalanx radar and swaps the cannon for guided missiles.

Then you've got the Russian Kashtan system which has both guns and missiles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZWE8iHdSqA

the biggest problem with Into Darkness.

>kirk is dead
>have 72 frozen augmented humans in the sick bay
>take one of the augments out of a tube and put kirk in
>have to get Khan alive to save kirk
>didn't use the blood from any one of the other 72 augments.

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>>82985477
Only after nations established protocols for oceanic exploration, conventions and the Law of the Sea.

Early exploration vessels were always military vessels and travelled in groups. Darwin's HMS Beagle travelled as escort to the HMS Adventure, both were military vessels.

Likewise, Christopher Columbus discovered the Americas in three military ships: La Niña, La Pinta and the Santa María.

Zheng He's Expeditions to the Indian Ocean were done by entire military fleets comprising dozens of ships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_voyages

Nations only sent single unarmed vessels to territories known to be completely safe, never to unexplored lands.

You don't know shit.

>>82986079
>inb4 lol water isn't space

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>>82981020

yes, and Riker's bisexuality

>>82985477
>>82986079
BTFO
Just stop trying and kys

>>82985572
If we're talking about TNG and onwards, Star Trek ships do not move at warp speed while fighting, except for when they get into chases. The scene webm takes place all at sublight speeds (and as can be seen plainly, extremely slow speeds at that).

>>82965043
Well, yeah. A planet isn't just gonna dodge it.

>>82986934
>Star Trek ships do not move at warp speed while fighting
Sure they do
>except for when they get into chases
Oh, except for every time they do, right.

>The scene webm takes place all at sublight speeds
That's because they engaged at close range. If someone took a shot at them that would take more time to hit than it would to move, then they'd move.

>>82977954
>space battles should be taking place at light seconds/minutes of distance

and how are you going to visually represent that

>>82987069
By filming it as a long range duel that requires thought and planning, and not some retarded bar fight

>>82987105

>a lot of shots where you never see both ships at once

everyones gonna say it looks like shit

>>82987176
>I can't imagine it and its different so its bad
Faggot

>>82959802
because they didn't want to spook any ayy lmaos that haven't heard of the federation yet
>hey guise, we come in peace
>nevermind the mind-bogglingly huge flotilla of ships that are three times more advanced than yours

>>82987431
Yeah, it really worked out well for all parties involved when Mad About You had the space marines give up all their ammo. You always make your security part of the mission.

>>82969938
This x100. Having it on Unlimited Nigger Programs really hurt it. Same with Enterprise. Couldn't watch most of the original airings, because it was preempted by ape hoop.

because Star Trek never really focused on the battles

>>82987023
The Enterprise D gets into dozens of fights. The number that occur at warp speed is less than five.

>If someone took a shot at them that would take more time to hit than it would to move, then they'd move.
Never mind, you're just a lying worthless troll. There are plenty of examples I could give of them engaging at tens or hundreds of thousands of kilometers while at sublight speeds, but you'd already know that if you had any idea WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT so this is the last response you get worthless lying fuck.

>>82987713
>There are plenty of examples I could give
Wow I surely believe you

>>82987537
>You always make your security part of the mission.
and that's why federation exploration vessels are configured to smash equally-sized vessels most of the time

>>82972504
>non-warship fleet is more than enough to keep the peace/stalemate between hostile factions
>only threats that have greater capabilities come from the other side of the galaxy
Its like calling the Native Americans naive for not teching up to deal with the Europeans years before they even met them.

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>>82965719
> if you want to stay with something, dock with it.

Honestly you have to blame people like Kirk, Picard, Siko and Janeway for this. When you see that a single ship can do all that stuff you just assume one is enough.

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what is this pose trying to convey?

>>82989033
Look. At. Muh. Dick.

>>82989033
Uh, you don't get to wear boots

>>82966351
>actually makes it seem terrible if you think about it for more than a second.
Just like TOS where space was regularly shown to be full of nightmares and existential twighlight zone phenomenon?

>>82960040
https://youtu.be/6filPCtrt0c

>>82989033

homosex

>>82959802

I still to this day have no idea which weapon is stronger, phasers or photon torpedoes. And why the Enterprise almost never fires both at once.

OP pic is a rare exception.

>>82989033
Thanks for the thumbnail, you brainless faggot.

>>82972504
>only started to design and build warships during the dominian war
Way to not know what you're talking about guy. The defiant was a prototype anti-borg ship. After Wolf 359 starfleet started creating combat vessels like the Akira class to fight the borg.

>>82972391
>Ships are shit at direct combat.
Which has been irrelevant as fuck since WWI.

>>82991056
Torpedoes are stronger and they have a variable yield. Phasers are more precise, don't use amunition, but dont pack the same punch.

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>>82980884

>>82959802
only ship in the quadrant senpai.

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>>82977954

This isn't actually the writer's fault. Maybe the director, but almost certainly the effects team. From what I understand, the effects team often just made shit up on the spot, such as D'deridex warbirds shooting giant fuckoff beams from the deflector. Pic related.

>>82980248

That's funny, because the reverse happened with me. Spinning sure is a good trick.