Did Prometheus Ruin The Idea of the Space Jockey?

>>82855225

I expected a space jockey to be the monster in Prometheus. A hyper-intelligent, hyper-advanced creator from another world to whom the dreadful aliens are like pet hamsters. Instead they gave us dumb bald jokers who can't store dangerous liquids right.

Who wasn't disappointed?

Backstory should stay in the back. That's why its called backstory

Ridley Scott has done a Lucas and shat on his own legacy

>>82855225
I was never a fan of having the space jockey explained, but the more I think about the less it bothers me, Alien is such a good movie, I can watch it has a standalone movie, besides, the space jockey in alien was way bigger than the one in prometheus.

>>82855225
>>82855704
>>82855773
Go back to plebbit. No brainers should leave /tv/ and never come back.

>>82855225
Not just the Space Jockey but the Alien itself. Better to leave their origins a mystery as it makes them seem scarier

It would be better if left unexplained. Just have aliens out there in space that will rape you.

>>82855865
Yeah, the size of the thing was quite bigger and hell, it clearly had a hole in the fucking RIB CAGE. And also it clearly had eyes. That long shot that stays on the eye after the crew moves on is perfectly eerie - when I first watched it as a kid I almost thought it might have moved.

The engineers from Prometheus could have worked, hell the film could have worked. But consider the intro to Alien and the intro to Prometheus.

>Alien: crew wake up after long flight, introduce crew, weird alien world, strange mission, suspense. Plot is shown, not told, each piece of the puzzle asks more questions

>Prometheus: flashback, weird alien drinking goo, flash, a cave or some shit, flash, ship, David montage, flash crew wakes up, briefing explaining the plot.

Imagine Prometheus if it'd had the "classic" start; crew wake up, meet David, pair of flaky scientists explain mission to them, David has been leeching in on your dreams in stasis. Uncover weird alien structure.

I'll argue that's a better movie right there

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I'm pretty late to the Alien party, but it seems like the engineers are only interesting because they were a mysterious element in a well made and beloved movie, not because they're actually interesting outside of aesthetics. There doesn't seem to be an organic story there that needed to be told, especially when it seems the original motivation for making everything in the movie look the way it does was "Damn, Giger's art looks like *that*?" I don't think this stuff is really supposed to make sense.

>>82856090
Prometheus should have just started with the Engineer waking up for what ever reason and the entire movie just following him while is is going on

>>82856098
>I'm pretty late to the Alien party

I feel genuinely sorry for yourself and others who have only just recently got into Alien because you'll never experience how great it was before Prometheus and all this Engineer shit was introducted

sadface.jpg

>>82856152
fuck off reddit

>>82856098
I was a kid in the 80s, I had a toy of the Alien

My parents bought me a toy of a Freudian rape monster...

Seriously though; Alien and Predator were once looked on as decent movies with cool protagonists. Now they're cult franchises or some shit

>>82856212

You have it the wrong way around you contrarian faggot. Rebbit loves Alien being turned into a gay Star Trek space fantasy shitfest of nonsense.

/tv/ preferred Alien to stay as an adult film series with realism.

>>82856224
>My parents bought me a toy of a Freudian rape monster...

I found that pretty hilarious as I've gotten older. We had toys of literal penis-headed space rapist monsters.

>>82856224

That's why I think it might be a bit different for me, I'm 30 but managed to completely avoid seeing any Alien movie until recently. I didn't grow up wondering what the deal was with the elephant man or anything like that, so maybe it's easier for me to just accept it as an aesthetic piece and move on.

>>82856305
That and starship trooper toys.
penis head monsters and brainwashed cannon fodder

>>82855225

Nah, Ridley Scott just has a history of being a fucking hack.

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>>82856348

I still collect brainless canon fodder

>>82856152
>bad prequels retroactively ruin the original
unlike star wars, they're the same exact movies as 38 years ago

>>82856305
We weren't a rich family but a kid I knew had a terminator toy where you could pull off and replace the skin. He also had Robocop toys including a huge ED209.

So I manage to get hold of a VHS with Robocop on it, must have been about 89, watch it sneakily without my parents expecting it to be fun. Watch that opening ED209 scene with the happy fun robot.

BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM

Childhood ruined!

>>82856420

No they're not. It's like finding out your wife sucked the cock of your worst enemy before you met her. It just wont be the same again.

I think that Ridley should have stayed away from the alien with these movies, the alien or xenowhatever is tired concept, he should have explored new possibilities, Prometheus was almost a good movie, I haven't watched covenant yet, that movie had the potential to be something new and original but it seems that it's another wasted opportunity.

>>82856554
you're fucking autistic if the mere existance of a sequel or prequel somehow changes the original in your mind, it is literally the same exact movie

The alien books are canon over Ridney Scott
The Space Jockey is a tall elephant dude and they were on the Alien homeworld, and took some eggs home to experiment/use as weapons/whatever. The pilot got FaceHugged and chestbursted resulting in the ship crashing.

>>82856638
>this literal fanfiction is canon and something made by the guy who started it all isn't

>>82856738
yep. Ridley Scott is that bad now that he's lost control of his own product

>>82856757
This is how people from tumblr think just fyi

>>82856767
Good to know that you know how tumblr thinks man.

>>82856608

It does though. It's hard to unsee something. The Space Jockey will never be this mysterious, millions of years old, alien spacecraft ever again. No matter how hard you try and forget Prometheus.

>>82855225
For me Prometheus didn't damage the mystery but changed what we were presented and looking at in 1979.

>>82855896
shut up, redditor. no one liked your casual flick.

I don't fucking understand what people want from this franchise.

It's either bitching there aren't any xeno's, bitching that they have xeno's, nitpicking every single little detail, wating the movie to be more like Alien, wanting the movie to be more like Aliens. The fucking fans need to neck themselves. You aren't going to have the original Alien ever again, xeno's aren't scary anymore.

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>>82857166

What are you finding hard to understand? No-one cared about xenos not being in Prometheus.

The core problem was that they turned pic related into a Star Trek story and took the alien out of Alien.

It's your own fault for thinking there was deeper meaning behind any of Gigers work. You could look at any of his art pieces and create an elaborate story behind them but in the end it's just a piece of modern art that looks cool.

>>82857213
>No-one cared about xenos not being in Prometheus

https://youtu.be/eKxLnCzOhqo?t=29

>>82856098
>"Damn, Giger's art looks like *that*?"
Please tell me I'm not the only one here who's fapped to it?

>>82857246

Wierd. I literally just stop watching that video...

But anyway. Yeah Ridley completely missed the point.

Hilarious how he made two movies worse than resurrection.

He fucked up by making them too big in the first movie.

>>82857297
What's the alternative?

>>82857303
come on I hate prometheus too but it's not that bad

>>82857303

Covenant is the third best alien film. It even retroactively makes Prometheus better.

>>82857385
Prometheus doesn't have Winona Ryder.

Checkmate.

I like how they simultaniously overexplained lore from Alien [Space Jockey = bald guy] but at the same time explained nothing about the new lore to keep it vague.

>unknown mystery for losers on boards to circlejerk

>use for a movie that can make millions

gee what a hard decision

>>82857292
>Please tell me I'm not the only one here who's fapped to it?
I'm not as secure as you are about my sexuality, I mean, what the hell am I looking at, it's not male but it isn't female either.

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>>82856098
It's like you look at a dali painting and try to explain the culture of the tall legged elephants

Ridley Scott needs to be put in an old folks home

>>82856738
Scott didn't start shit, Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett wrote the original script and most of the iconic things on the films came from O'Bannon and Giger. Scott was just a novel director with luck.

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>>82857508
It doesnt matter what it is son, thats part of the allure.
>mfw finding the animated versions

>>82856426
>Childhood ruined!
you must have been a fucking faggot child anon.

>>82857601
No it wasn't it was ruined by the Crystal Skull, no the ROTS, or was it TPM???
How many times over has it been ruined?
oh Poor boy.

>>82857588
animated version?

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>>82857292
this used to be my wallpaper for years and I wouldnt masturbate to it in particular, but I'd be masturbating and hover over hide windows and just stare at it and think about shit for the first few months, too the put I'd almost lose erection.

>>82857896
Yeah someone animated a bunch of his stuff for an art exhibit or something. Cant really remember, but I do remember watching a giant alien penis penetrate xenos vagina.

>>82857579
>>82857579
This.
I'm literally being triggered whenever some bitch-ass-nigger acts like Scatt was the sole creative force behind ALIEN.

It was great collaborative effort, with main creative force behind the story being O'Bannon and Shusset, unforgettable design work by Giger and Cobb, eerie soundtrack by Goldsmith and great Directing by Scatt.

Didley is a great cinematographer, but for the love of God, keep him away from story work, he's like Lucas in that regard

>>82855225
The minute they said "it's a helmet!" was when the movie was ruined for me. I couldn't believe that shit...and the movie just got worse from there.

>>82857938
that pics deserves Koyaanisqatsi and yes with Scrubs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqtnU2faTc

>>82856090
You people want the same shit repeated all over again. Not a way to please you, fans will always hate new ideas. The alien formula has been done many times in other movies.

>>82858028
Why do you call him Didley Scatt when Didley Squat would make more sense?

>>82857938
this deserves Koyaanisqatsi
yes with scrubs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqtnU2faTc

>>82855225

Yes.

Before, the Space Jockey was a total mystery. This added to its charm.

By giving a film (every film is in some sense canon whether fans like it or not) backstory to the creatures, the mystery is ruined. This is the big tragedy. Next to this, the confusion over helmet/non-helmet is trivial.

Forgive the following run-on sentence:

But OTOH lamenting the space jockey's ruined mystery was by that point a moot point in the sense that the universe had already been beaten to death and badly mishandled by the intervening shit movies, including Resurrection, the AvP flick(s) and to a lesser extent the also-not-that-good Alien^3.

>>82856090
You people want the same shit repeated all over again. Not a way to please you, fans will always hate new ideas. The alien formula has been done many times in other movies.

>>82856426
>Childhood ruined!
Dude I remember watching Robocop on TV when I was like 5 and that scene didn't shock me one bit
I also remember watching Titanic at the same age and I literally tried to draw Rose when Jack was drawing her

>>82857938
That's actually a very interesting drawing of Baphomet from an /x/ perspective

>>82856224

Its like the WY bio weapons devision. What those guys get up to is a complete mystery. What kind of crazy fucking bioweapons are they making?

the truth is they are making crazy living dildos.

>>82855225
I had always assume they were a caste of another alien race. Like they were bred for the task of being pilots, and thus were biomechanically connected to the ship, but are modified versions of the alien race's base form. I think I might have gotten the idea from Dune or 40k or something,

And the ship was a bomber, filled with biological weapons they created/harvested from a separate species, probably not native to their world.

>>82855225
The space jockey was always a minor point in Alien, the movie's focus is elsewhere. The exact reason why nerds focus on the jockey is because making up your own fanfiction is easier than trying to understand film. It's fucking 40 years later and if you ask people what they thought Alien was about they'll say
>rape or something I dunno, the monster is so cool lol

>>82858118

childhood is thinking Alien 3 is not-that-good

adulthood is realizing it is on par with Aliens.

not kidding, this is literally how you can determine if someone's brain has fully developed yet or not.

>>82858320
I thought that too. Like the ship was actually biological and the pilot was permanently fused in there.

>>82855225
David is the Space Jockey headed to Earth with his perfect creation of organic & mechanical creation(Eggs) in the hold but was some how already infected/infected during travel before crashing on LV-426

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKbITZXs3-E

>>82858533
>Walter is the Space Jockey
ftfy

>>82856381
>all white marines
wow. racist much?

>>82856098
>>82857522
>It's like you look at a dali painting and try to explain the culture of the tall legged elephants
>Ridley Scott needs to be put in an old folks home
I do wonder if explaining any of it ruins it.

At least they could have left some stuff unrevealed.

Though I like the Promethean themes of creator and creation, fire from the gods, I don't think it was as good as it could have been. Of course any reveal might have been ruined by the years of mystery.

>>82858581
David kills Walter & replaces him before leaving the Planet with survivor/survivors & they figure it out as David places the last one into Cryo-Sleep

>>82858712
"Kills"

No body, no crime bitch

>>82858066
clearly Zach Braff is the spawn of Satan (who is clearly the horned god in that pic, not Baphomet, because I am an ignorant American who attributes all evil in the world to Satan)

>>82858118
>Before, the Space Jockey was a total mystery. This added to its charm.

>By giving a film (every film is in some sense canon whether fans like it or not) backstory to the creatures, the mystery is ruined.

I think the real problem is that the space jockey was never a hugely compelling mystery in the first place. It was just mysterious enough to merit discussion among fans, but not mysterious enough to be the basis of an entire film. Not every unknown is great story waiting to be told. We could easily conjecture what the space jockey was.

>>82858619
>marines
GTFO casual

>>82855225
It sure did.

Haven't seen anyone of the alien series

What's the best order to watch them in?

>>82858836

Release order, like a normal person.

>>82858872
Like he said. But I also recommend including the first AvP between Resurrection and Prometheus, the reasons for this will become obvious once you're watching the latter.

>>82858754
>I think the real problem is that the space jockey was never a hugely compelling mystery in the first place. It was just mysterious enough to merit discussion among fans, but not mysterious enough to be the basis of an entire film.

This.

I actually don't mind having David creating the xenomorphs (as we know them in later films). But the destruction of the Space Jockey mystery was not needed.

>>82858357
I first saw Alien 3 when I was 12 years old in the movie theatres with another girl. When it ended and I walked outside, I remember feeling like I had been raped. Everyone dies in the end, it was super tragic. I think a lot of people didn't like that level of tragedy but I respected it on some level for it's toughness. It was just fuckin harsh for that time period. That's when I became a David Fincher fan.

>>82858533
Then why the fuck cast a warning message in an alien language? shit is getting more retarded every second.

>>82859093
Could have been a garbled message which was deciphered as an Alien language. Or the message via the ship was only able to transmit messages through the engineers language.

It didn't go back and ruin the original space jockey in the original film. As far as I care, Prometheus and Covenant are non-canon.

But yeah, they really dropped the ball with it. They could have done something interesting with it, instead they squandered all the potential they may have had.

Oh and by the way, some film buffs might like the original inspiration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii-OQyIleWk

The dark horse comics already introduced the space jockeys as a creature/alien not a man in a space suit. Not sure why he had to change it to a man like alien

If David created the facehuggers and eggs then what was the mural in Prometheus with the eggs and facehuggers all about?

>>82859348
Thing is, I think Xenomorphs had existed for a very long time, its just the specific modern version we know as of now, was made by david. Not the Xenomorphs as a whole but the one we've come to be familiar with.

Look at the Alien at the end of Prometheus, clearly Xenomorph like, just not the same.

>>82859381

I agree but it was implied that he made the eggs from Shaw's womb. Perhaps replicating then?

Why would an alien wear a space suit while in a space ship?

>>82856152
>>82856271
>>>/r/eddit/

Go home, kid.

>>82857083
>The Space Jockey will never be this mysterious, millions of years old, alien spacecraft ever again. No matter how hard you try

I feel genuinely sorry for yourself and others who have this inability to separate fiction at will. Canon isn't real, it's a decision made by the viewer.

>>82859429
Give him a break. He has aspergers.

>>82859397
Maybe. He wouldn't take Shaw's womb/insides out without reason. I assumed it was because the modern day Xenomorph is mostly a splicing of human genes with the Xenomorph template.

Like, that giant ass facehugger in Prometheus was clearly a beta or "foundation" build of the Xenomorph prototype/creature. I assume it can be altered as necessary depending on the required infestation.

I like to think David did as I said previous, made the modern xenomorph, but not make them from the ground up. The tools to create a creature of some xenomorph form were there, just David altered it or built it from the foundation to what we know today.

Replicating? I don't think quite that. More like "I am forming this piece of deadly virus jelly into a more specific form specialized in parasitic behaviour".

>>82859399
So people know he's in space. Same reason you wear a partyhat at a party, so people know you're at a party.

>>82855896
>/tv/
You misspelled /super reddit/

>>82859429
solid post. set a standard. just own the first film.

>>82859093
But Davids goal was presumably to destroy humanity, so why would he set off a beacon that says stay away? Do they ever decipher it to mean that, or do they just make that assumption after realising what what's on the ship? It might just be. a load of nonsense.

>>82859429
>>82859467

>if i say go back to r-reddit then they will never guess i am from reddit

>>82859429

You are talking absolute shit. Prometheus is like a bad taste being left in your mouth. No matter how much you try to ignore it exists, and just to enjoy you original favourite meal, you still wont fully get rid of that taste.

>>82855225
It absolutely did, yes. The space jockey was much better as an unexplained reference to enormous worlds beyond the small circumference of the film series. A touch of cosmic horror. And the idea of the Engineers making a suit shaped like that makes no sense, either. Plus, isn't the size wrong? The space jockey is significantly bigger than the engineers.

>>82859478

That chestburster scene with the first xenomorph was damn well beautiful. The music and lighting was spot on.

>>82855896
Not an argument.

>>82858157
>>82858076
The trouble is, that same alien formula is infinitely better than flat out showing that an engineer seeded human life on earth within the first minute of the movie.

>>82859936
Damn right it was. If you mean the Prometheus scene at the end. Ironically my friend who was a much bigger Aliens fan hated it, but I loved it.

>>82859998

I meant the Covenant one. With David seeing his creation being born. Loved it.

The Prometheus one was nice too.

>>82855896
So what's your excuse?

Get going then.

>>82859399
Why do our astronauts wear spacesuits in spaceships?

>>82859930
>Plus, isn't the size wrong?
It's arms in the original are literally twice as long as the average human's height.

>>82858157
>>82858076
Anyone else see the irony of posting the same comment twice?

>>82860073
I think that's the joke honey.

>>82860096
This place isn't smart enough for jokes.

>omg it's too le humanoid, it's sooooooooooooooo le boooooooooring for my le child brain

i bet the same people who spout this moronic low brow opinion are anime fans

>>82860140
No wonder /tv/ couldn't appreciate Prometheus.

>>82856090
>Imagine Prometheus if it'd had the "classic" start; crew wake up, meet David, pair of flaky scientists explain mission to them, David has been leeching in on your dreams in stasis. Uncover weird alien structure.

it would be just another generic action flick

>>82860029
Yeah that was solid. Honestly I feel the lore peeps are going way OTT on it. I mean like, after years of AVP comics, I'm kind of happy seeing the Alien lore getting a revision of some form.

I think recapturing the horror of the Alien from 1979 is impossible, especially with the standards of violence being uppsed so much over the decades. Its not an angle I fully agree with what Ridley has done but I can understand it and quite frankly, I'm enjoying it.

>>82860340

no that's the opposite of the difference it would make. prometheus took the alien formula and turned it into a generic action flick.

>Prometheus
>very high critical and fan scores
>only retards on /tv/ hate it

Hmm

>>82860393

>specially with the standards of violence being uppsed so much over the decades.

that's bullshit mang. every one of the deaths in alien had more impact than any in covenant or prometheus

>>82860408
er, no? the only thing in common the two movies have is that they share a universe

>>82860449

>he only thing in common the two movies have is that they share a universe

it's not a fucking romcom is it? they share more than just a universe you fucktard.

>>82855929

This. Explaining the xenomorphs as weapons was the WORST idea ever. It is pretentious and it makes no fucking sense.

Why where the xenomorphs scary in the first place? It's simple, they where a superior predator, stronger, smarter, more resilient. There was no secret agenda, nothing to "understand", it played with the fear of the unknown, lurking in the dark only showing fragments of itself.

There was really nothing to explain... The Jockey was just another life form to prove that we where not alone in the universe, that there was a lot humans didn't know and couldn't hope to ever know or understand about the deep dark space.

I get the idea behind prometheus... the idea that humans will look for an explanation and all that and that part is kind of fine but actually giving the explanation is not.

There was no need.

>>82860408
I think that's technically Resurrection. Prometheus is a lot of things, dumb, clueless, directionless but I wouldn't really call it an action. Covenant on the other hand does seem to be a generic action. It just jumps right in to bombing alienes, things exploding out of people's backs and ships blowing up.

>>82860503

they're absolutely entitled to answer the questions raised in the first movie as long as they raise more in the process. there needs to be an element of the unknown. if they made a movie with the same alien in the same environment it would become familiar and lose its impact, so they do have to escalate. the question is does the mystery deepen or does it diminish as the subject matter is expanded

>>82856212
You fucking prick. Prometheus is as Reddit as you can get. KYS.

>>82860542
>Covenant
>generic action
There's that whole part of the movie that takes place in a pseudo-medieval monastery and consists of David talking, and everything between the space burst and med bay.

>>82860439
Nah anon I mean overall. If we were to do Alien now, or try to replicate it (properly) it would be pretty eh. The violence of an alien horror which we now all know what it is and how it looks just wouldn't cut it in my view.

>>82855225
I liked the idea from some old novels that they were a peaceful race that got fucked by aliens.

I hated the idea o aliens being a bio weapon and that space jockeys were evil that some novels did.

So yeah, was disappointed they went with the second.

>>82858357

Nope. The film is turgid and dull. The private struggles of most of the cast are uninteresting exactly because apart from Sigourney and Charles Dance, they are all unsympathetic and unlikeable characters. Because in addition to being violent, most everybody is rather stupid as well. That everyone is bald just makes them even more explicitly fungible non-characters.

Films with unhappy endings are great. In general, there's nothing at all wrong with a film which is intentionally edgy and caustic, but it has to be interesting, and Alien^3 doesn't do well on this point.

No, I think the Engineers are a great way to continue the mystery. They're eerie, disconcerting and clearly powerful and dangerous as well as aggressive. On top of this, they have unrivaled intelligence - making them far more menacing than the aliens as they're not simply killer beasts. I liked the direction of the films as it has tonnes of potential which is nice to see as sci-fi has been lacking lately.

I kind of hoped they would drop the Aliens and have more Prometheus style content, including neomorphs as I find their design is far creepier. I'm glad that David seems to be getting the focus over everyone else - the ending of Covenant (although predictable) really showed how unsettling David can be in that he enjoys tormenting humans, never mind experimenting on them.

>>82857083
>The Space Jockey will never be this mysterious, millions of years old, alien spacecraft ever again.
He was never really all that important though. If you were that hung up on it and the mystery, you probably WANTED to know more about it, and are just mad that the eventual explanation doesn't suit your liking.

>>82858220
Oooh ghetto child turns artiste

>>82855225
Looking into the space jockey did not ruin it.

It was the crappy engineers that ruined it, really were meh desu, basically humans.

Even so the space jockey was filler at best, what was this giant and what what it that popped out of his chest which could kill such a being is the bigger question which got answered.

It has always been about the xeno, Alien shows you it, Aliens shows you the queen.

If they wanted to show the space jockey it should have been a really fucked up alien species instead of some bald bodybuilder who supposedly played god.

>>82860699

Well obviously a shot for shot remake of something we've already seen wouldn't cut it but the structure and tone of alien would have as much impact if we were seeing it for the first time now as it did then - possibly more imo. The mere anatomy of the alien does most of the work - it does not just kill people, it violates them. Good characterisation does the rest. The result of these two factors is that every death in the first two movies has an emotional wallop that just can't be compensated with more realistic and grotesque depictions of violence.

>>82855225
>sci-fi prequel
>ruins mysteries by explaining things
no big surprises here. people are dumb and want mysterious things explained to them in fiction since that can't happen with mysteries in real life.

>>82858320
>>82858453
Not baiting but how old are you? I wonder if your memory is tainted by Prometheus and maybe resurrection.

I watched Alien when it came out and it always seemed obvious to me that SJ was just some fossilised random that fell prey to the xeno whilst going about his interplanetary business eons ago and crashed on that planet, then the xeno laid a shitload of eggs to lie in wait for the next victims.

>>82855225
>the mystery behind the Space Jockey
Imagine being pathetic enough to actually care about this.

>>82860795
>Pete Postlethwaite
>Charles Dutton
>Ralph Brown
>unsympathetic and unlikable
fuck i even thought paul mcgann was at the very least a somewhat tragic character, having just completely lost what little remained of his mind after seeing the alium rape his friends.

The 10/10 cast is perfect and the whole semi-religious way is the is leftover of the name of the rose in space concept and is massively enjoyable if you're not a stupid shit and moste likely homosexuel reddit-user.

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Didn't wanna make my own thread.

Is alien v predator even canon at this point? I liked the ideas it added to the lore, but Prometheus and covenant completely ruin their place.

>>82861097
kek the only rational post ITT

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>>82861043
I'm 32 so I first saw it when I was somewhere between 6 and 8. But I don't get how my memory would be tainted by those 2 films. Look at it, it looks like it is part of the seat and so part of the ship. I'm pretty sure they even say as much in the dialogue.

>>82861101
This.

Alien 3 is a masterpiece.

>>82860565

I disagree on regards of the need to escalation. That's how you go from a ship with one xenomorph to a base/ prison with a hundred and a queen, to a temple with a hundred, a queen and eggs, to a fucking planet.

I do agree however that they just can't let the creature become "familiar" because most of the original fear comes from not knowing.

Maybe Scott is trying to play it inverting the kind of fear. If the original was the fear of the unknown, he should have figured "it's not unknown anymore, i can't play with that kind of fear becasue the audience already knows what's lurking in the dark" so instead of playing with the surprise he is playing the opposite, the horror that comes from knowing too much? from the unavoidable?

Suspense instead of surprise basically... but i don't think that's actually working for this, at least not as it's being done. I mean, showing more planets, discovering more of the universe could still add a lot of strange to the saga without explaining shit about the xenomorphs...

>>82861152
also at least 33% bigger

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>tfw I used to defend Prometheus on /tv/
>Covenant has made me turn on Ridley Scott for being a hack
FORGIVE ME JC! ALIENS IS THE PATH OF TRUE SALVATION!

>always loved the first two Alien movies
>never gave a fuck about the Space Jockies

>>82861103
I don't think so but Fox made Colonial Marines canon.

>>82861248
Have you got the Zoe Saldana one where he berates her for moaning about a harness or something?

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>>82855225

I thought it was acceptable since Giger's artwork tends to depict exactly the kind of thing that the Space Jockey turned out to be in Prometheus; A biomechanically augmented human. Sure I thought it was just a corpse originally, but this 'retcon' is fine and doesn't really stray from the original aesthetic direction.

>>82861333
>A biomechanically augmented human
But it's not you retard is a suit.

>>82861103
Prometheus is a remake of Alien vs Predator. Look the the key elements:

- a dying old billionaire who funds an expedition to a remote location based on some flimsy archeological evidence
- discovery of an alien temple housing alien artifacts and a dangerous biological element that breaks loose because of the expedition
- female protagonist who is hung up on her father's death and argues with the people in charge of the expedition
- a pair consisting of the polite nerdy character and the rude tough character who get killed early
- old billionaire confronts the ancient alien and gets killed by it
- near the end of the movie two characters are running away from a big black hazard
- movie ends with one human and one non-human survivor, and an alien spacecraft blasting off

>>82861186
for you

>>82861437
No shit, I was referring to the pilot who wears the suit. The man and the suit meld together and form what's thought of as the Space Jockey, so the suit is just yet another augmentation instead of a self-contained organism.

>>82861101
>>82861170

Nope. Charles Dutton becomes MORE unlikeable, the more you watch him. The character becomes even WORSE in the assembly cut, exactly because you get more of him.

You barely see Pete, but I can concede a little humanity in his character because he gets to deliver the /slight/ comic relief/quips which actually are necessary to make the medicine go down. I can easily do this because the rest remain so awful.

Ralph Brown, Mr. Aaron now that I look it up, portrays a very stupid man. True, he's not stupid enough to have a life sentence in a leadworks, but he's still stupid, and this negates his interest and value as a character.

So between the three you've mentioned, you have about 1/4-1/2 of an interesting/likeable/worthwhile character where you had earlier incorrectly asserted three full such characters. Try harder.

>>82858339
What do you think Alien was about?

Questions;

[SPOILER]If David created the egg and the facehugger from his experiments in 2104 then how they end up on a ship in 2122 that's thousands of years old and AvP?[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]Is the planet in Alien Covenant the homeworld of the engineers or just another colony? People have said it's supposed to be the homeworld, but if that's the case then how come the crew didn't mention anything about picking up cities, roads, space debris or anything that wasn't naturally created?[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]Why did the crew not seem to give a shit that they were on a planet of alien civilisation?[/SPOILER]

>>82862306
Because they turned a good premise into a shit 'horror' flick.

They made David go from a curious creation, to a run of the mill horror film last boss.

>>82857083
I still see the jockey as gigers baron hakonnen from dune

>>82861564
>characters in a movie have to be likable for it to be a good movie
>characters have to have iqs over a 85 for it to be a good movie
kys

>>82858028
kek, like the story in alien was anything special or important to why it's regarded as a great movie.
Alien is all about the atmosphere, and a good direction is all about that.

>>82855704
Same my brother. I thought the same thing.

>>82855225
I always thought the alien attacked the space jockey ship. I thought the alien was just a parasite type create.

>>82856098
>but it seems like the engineers are only interesting because they were a mysterious element in a well made and beloved movie, not because they're actually interesting outside of aesthetics.
Dude, they are the first aliens these cargo transporting humans have ever met, and they were just corpses. I mean what the fuck do you expect? Scott just didn't have the vision to pull of a prequel.

>>82862974
Nonsense, Anon.

RS is pretty much the least important piece in the puzzle that is Alien's identity as a movie. Without Scott, it would still be he same move, albeit admittedly, very likely with less competent cinematography.

Without Bannon, Shusett, Giger and Cobb however, it would be just another slasher, one that while competently shot - would ne one that's ultimately forgettable and would make nowhere near the same splash in cultural memory

>>82862974
Are you unironically retarded, senpai?

Replace the Alien with some sharp tool wielding faggot, and the sets of Alien with some dumbass town. The movie would go by unnoticed and forgotten.

Alien's atmosphere is of 90% Dan Bannon story and H.R.Gigers designs. I'll even go as far as to say that they literally carried Didley and he piggybacked off of it.

>>82861152
>what is fossilisation over eons?

>>82864615
>why is the chair fossilised?
>why do tubes appear to come from the chair and extend to the Space Jockey's arms?

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>2019
>alien anniversary special edition
>ridley releases his original, always-intended vision of the true movie he always wanted to make but didnt have the budget / technical means
>includes numerous new scenes
>while exploring the derelict ship cgi-tom skerrit notices a bunch of squishy eggs on the fossilized space jockey and starts pushing and squeezing them
>cgi-john hurt is informed by his slightly-futuristic iphone that the atmosphere is now breathable
>crew all take off helmets
>cgi-veronica cartwright finds a flute and starts playing randomly
>green laser hologram shit everywhere
>two slightly different drops of black goo drip from the ceiling and fall into cgi-tom-skerrits and cgi-veronica cartwrights mouths without either noticing
>crew puts helmets back on and the movie continues with kane finding the eggs
>new scene replaces the scene where dallas gets snatched
>instead his skin falls off and he turns into a slightly different looking neomorph
>scene where lambert gets killed is replaced by a 10 minute-long-scene of her slowly turning into an engineer while parker watches in frozen amazement
>ending is replaced by the engineer and ripley teaming up to kill the alien and the slightly different looking neomorph
>"no - we have to crash the nostromo into lv-426. THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE"
>the nostromo crashes head-on into the derelict and explodes and sends it flying
>it lands and dramatically rolls like a wheel while sgi-sigourney weaver who climbed out of the nostromo-wreck tries to outrun it
>at the last second the engineer pushes her out of the way but gets rolled over
>his dying words are "A'Kunz'E, Res'H'urgDsh M'i'riliD'rn"
>subtitle reads : i forgive you for killing jesus
>riply gets in narcissus but just as she enters the hypersleep-chamber she hits her head and forgets the real ending
>the circle is complete

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Just returned from the theater!
Boy was this film great and amazing, I especially liked the part where David fights several engineers that were about to escape to warn the other colonies. Shaw was impaled by an engineer spear, and David then finally had a chance to create a breed of aliens. Phew, very scary. Loved it. Going to watch it again!

>>82861248
But covenant is far better than Prometheus