woah...good point...

>>82599652
It legitimately is. I just read "Birthright" for the first time, and I'm amazed at how many elements they managed to incorporate from even there.

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>>82599652

>the only reason people think bvs is good is because of how many comic arcs it references

>it actually doesn't do anything with the references and the movie itself is just about completely random

>>82599652
>woah...good point...

worst point ever. it is really a awful movie, DCEU fags have to let it goo

>>82600720
>How to Spot a Redditor 101

>>82599652
I unironically like Eisenberg's Lex and wish we had gotten more of him.

>>82599652
>via 9gag.com

End yourself

I think it's the other way around, plebs are like "it's awesome" and fans are "it's alright" to "meh"

>false flag thread
>pic from 9gag
Fucking marlel redditors, ruining cinema and this board

>>82600838
twitter searches strongly indicate the only people saying "ITS AWESOME" are mexicans jerking off over all the superpowered EL CHRISTO references

>>82600864
Poe's law boyo.

>>82600838
Nah I resented the movie when I first saw it.
Thought it was boring, forced, and awful.
Then I read threads about all the symbolism and metaphors.
I bought the Ultimate Cut in 4K and took my new info into another viewing.
I understood it more, liked it better.
I discussed it more, learned even more ideals in the movie.
I watched it again and I started to love it.
I partook in more discussions and learned even deeper meanings and watched the Ultimate Cut again.
It's amazing.
I had to understand it to appreciate it.

>>82600972
Are you me?

BvS demonstrated the full corruption of critics fairly well.

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>>82601009
The hypocrisy doesn't help much, either.

>>82601065
I have to applaud Disney for demonstrating just how easy it is to own social media.

>>82600972
so stockholm syndrome

>>82600972
shut the fuck up

no real superman fan would ever like this drivel

>>82601123
>>82601164
When the same Marvel pajeestani starts leaking butthurt all over the place.

>>82599652
Why are you people participating in daily capeshit bait threads?

>>82601164
I don't like Superman.
I'm a Batman fan.
And the movie is from Batman's point of view that Superman is evil.
I liked Batman's perspective.

>>82601164
>no real superman fan
Stop pretending you are anything but a falseflagging cocksucker.

>>82601259
>from Batman's point of view Superman is evil.

>in three hours of movie there isn't a single justification for this

>>82601334
Batman is depressed and cynical.
I can understand if you don't get it though.

I love the movie personally, and even I can't defend what a giant mess it is.

>>82601334
>in three hours of movie there isn't a single justification for this
Why are marlels still not banned on sight for being mentally underaged?

>>82601357
>batman is depressed and cynical
>this justifies him doing less than nothing over 18 months

>>82601334
i hate this movie too but let's be real, the complete fucking annihilation of metropolis was enough justification for batman's motivation. they fucked it up on superman's end by making him a hypocrite for no good reason.

>>82601487
Yes his very apparent flaws explains actions and also lack of action. These characters are human, not walking quipbots.

>>82601523
If the characters were human, they would not have become superheros in the first place.

>>82601577
Derp a herp

>>82601498
>something destroys a city
>you're batman
>you investigate absolutely nothing about this new threat over 18 months and instead just quote dick cheney at your butler.

>>82601592
Your lack of counter-argument is noted.

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>>82601577
It is precisely because they are human that makes them fascinating characters to study.

Central theme of BvS: Superman's Humanity in relation to Batman's fall and despair.

>>82601605
yeah i don't have an answer to that, but it's a bad movie so it's to be expected.

>>82601498
>the complete fucking annihilation of metropolis
So Zod fucking up 1 skyscraper and a parking garage and some windows = COMPLETE FUCKING PANTSHITTING UBER ANNIHILATION OF METROPOLIS MAAAAAAN YA BRAH?

>>82601605
He was tracking down the Kryptonite.

>>82601649
The central concept of batman is hes a person who decided to go above and beyond when he could've just lived comfortably his entire life.

Suddenly deciding to have him be "more human and flawed" but still trying to have him as "batman" doesn't work

>>82601678
>i'll analyze every hamfisted christ metaphor and character action and motivation to write essay tier shitposts about it on an indonesian synchronized swimming forum, but i won't pay enough attention during the movie to notice an entire fucking city being turned to rubble

>>82601678
>building almost crushes an innocent girl
>the building her parents were in collapsed
>Batman has a grudge against Superman

It literally happens in the beginning of the movie and is the reason why Bruce has something against Superman.

>>82601715
>there are literally two places on earth where there could be kryptonite
>the locations are intensely well documented

>lex just casually walks in and out of both of them

>it takes batman 18 months steal some

>>82601718
>Batman can't have flaws because I say so
Read the opening image again. You are looking for walking quipbots ala Marvel.

>>82601678
Yeah, I'm sure the last time some skyscrapers were destroyed in a major metropolitan city, people didn't treat it as a cataclysmic event.

>>82601767
Your attempt to equivocate away valid criticism has been noted.

>>82601605
He spent 18 months upping his game and looking for a way to kill him.

>>82601746
>Lex is smarter and richer than Wayne
Newsflash!

>board for TV and film
>seriously discusses capeshit trash for preteens and manchildren
I never thought any one board would be able to surpass /o/ in sheer amount of underage users and idiocy.

>>82601792
Your attempt to criticize a film screams of petty bias and cognitive dissonance. Try harder.

>>82601808
we used to discuss just about anything.

now arguing with shills is all that is left

>>82601281
shut the fuck up, superman's my boy and i could school you on what makes him great but you'll only pretend to be retarded and be a contrarian cock.sucking faglord.

eat a thousand dicks

>>82601740
Yes that's the skyscraper I mentioned. The one that Zod threw Superman through. The MAN OF MURDER autism needs to be dialed back. You're acting like this was a Godzilla movie. 1 building collapsed and a parking garage got a chunk of it blown up. All because of Zod. But this is a shitposting thread so I should probably stop biting.

>>82601746
Looking for it from the get-go presupposes that you know it exists and what its effects are. It's not until Lex and his guys discover its properties that Bruce kicks into high gear.

>>82601823
Your projection as deflection has been noted.

In hopes of getting us back on track:

In order to be batman, bruce wayne has to strive to be better than human. So by being batman, hes rejecting the weakness and flaws of humanity. A weak and flawed billionaire would not be batman, he'd be just a billionaire, chilling out in the world.

>>82601831
Go fuck yourself you falseflagging cockmongler

>>82601875
Someone typed this shit thinking he was a clever marlel.

>>82601849
>an alien threat destroys a city
>the entire world knows said alien threat and superman are one in the same due to zod's global broadcast

>this clearly means the two giant alien ships are completely unrelated in every way, shape, and form and only the genius of lex luthor will be able to discover they're related

>>82601921
So we have confirmed, twice, that you have no counter to the assertion that batman, by definition, cannot be portrayed as a weak human and still be batman.

I pretty much stopped watching super-heroes movies after Spiderman 2.
Did I miss something?

I thought though.

>>82601923
You seem to be missing the point. If you don't know that kryptonite exists, what's there to be found?

If you're not as tied into the government and the military as Lex is, how do you even go look without being in constant danger of capture?

Nothing about this Batman gives any indication that he'd ever been more than a local vigilante before the invasion came along.

>>82601983
DC movies have more thought to them but Disney Marvel aren't.
Spiderman are good movies though.
I can't say the same for the upcoming Homecoming movie.

>>82601808
These threads are spammed by one guy(femboy really since hes swede) though

>>82601892
Shut the fuck up faggot

>>82599652
Why did Batman get sent to Hell in a dream?

>>82601841
Superman's battle wrecked a huge part of the city, they showed that in both BvS and Man of Steel, both movies specifically drew from 9/11 in order to show how terrible that destruction was for people and society in the movie. You don't have to like BvS but pretending people wouldn't be resentful of an alien superbeing who takes part in the violent collapse of several occupied skyscrapers makes you look stupid.

>>82602065
Flash sent a message from the future.

>>82601983
Marvel fans think DC sucks
DC fans think Marvel suck

both are defending terrible movies in order to justify their comic book cult

>>82601952

Batman is defined by his weakness. The Batman persona is armor for the wounded Bruce Wayne. It's a dual identity and a coping mechanism. You yourself are saying as much.

>>82599652
>damn great awesome movie

>>82602100
Nah.
I'm a DC fan and I like the first Guardians of the Galaxy but the sequel felt like it didn't even know why I liked the first one.
Iron Man 1 is a good movie as well.
Civil War was literally pointless as it ends with everyone forgiving the entire plot.

>>82599652
I like how Superman's death is treated like some sort of big tragedy when you know he'll be back in a couple of movies anyway.

>>82602099
As a dream? Can The Flash do telepathy?

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>>82599652
>making a meme point
>having 2 points to counter your statement
>Damn Great Awesome

>>82602178
Well we don't know much about Flash yet besides that one scene in BvS and then he capture Captain Boomerang in Suicide Squad.

>>82602178
With Speedforce you can do anything.
Except give clear hints.

>>82602157
>everyone forgiving the entire plot

They are still split up tho and half the avengers are now rogue.

>>82602178
We're pretty sure we're going to find out they were using left-over Kryptonian tech to pull it off - the same sort of stuff Zod used on Clark in Man of Steel.

It's funny because comic book geeks go on about it for being not muh Batman and not muh Superman while movie enthusiasts actually appreciate it for what it is.

>>82599652
>If you are a comic book reader X
>If you are a casual Y

Sorry but those aren't opposites we are now living in the age of "nerd culture" and reading big name comic books and playing videogames is about as entry level normie behaviour as enjoying sports.

Anyone who thinks reading fucking Batman or Superman is a sign that they are some kind of selective or tasteful nerd is kidding themselves and I look forward to your 9gag watermark facebook post talking about "Nerds like us who read Harry Potter amarite XDDD"

>>82602029
I'm talking about Spiderman 2.
Not the amazing faggot one.

It just felt like I was gang-rapped and robbed exiting the theater.

>>82602266
No, normies "nerd-signal" by wearing the merchandise and going to the movies. It doesn't mean they know jack-shit about the lore.

I guarantee you I was one of maybe 5 people in GotG2 that actually knew the name for the alien they're fighting at the beginning of the movie.

>>82602285
I implied the Riami Spidermans, not Amazing.

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If you take either one seriously you should kys on spot. Or get back tl reddit, what ever.

>>82602220
Yes but ITT it's going on about taking inspiration from comic books. Is The Flash telepathic in the comics?

>>82602251
So you're saying that it took up 20 minutes of the movie based on something that we aren't going to find out until several movies later? Does that sound like good storytelling to you? To me it's amateurish as fuck. Dogshit even. It's so bad that I can't believe they are going to do something so childish.

>>82602248
This is what I'm getting at. If The Flash is telepathic and can send thoughts back in time why didn't he just send words saying what to do with clear instructions?

I think Batman getting sent to Hell in a dream doesn't make much sense. I think The Flash being the one that sent him to Hell in a dream makes even less.

>>82600972
That was like me with MOS. I hated it but a few months later I had the need to watch it again. The second time I liked it and by the 3rd time I loved it. By the time BvS came out in theatres I loved it the TC straight away because I understood what it was going to be about and how the film was going to go about it but after the UC I can never go back to the TC.

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>>82600788

MMM

BOYS

>>82602367
>So you're saying that it took up 20 minutes of the movie based on something that we aren't going to find out until several movies later? Does that sound like good storytelling to you? To me it's amateurish as fuck. Dogshit even. It's so bad that I can't believe they are going to do something so childish.

>20 minutes
>whole scene isn't even 5 minutes long.

Were you pissed in LotR when they spent like 2 hours talking about Gondor when it doesn't even come into play till two movies later? I guess that's more shit story-telling to you, too.

>>82602453
Let's stick to the point. Why did Batman get sent to Hell in a dream?

>>82602453
>Gondor
>2 hours talking about it
Source

>>82601718

That's the interpretation most version of Batman go with. The one in BvS was a guy coping with loss by living out an increasingly violent revenge fantasy. Both are equally valid going off of his backstroy. Until his redemption later on BvS played Batman as a bad guy. Maybe as someone who wasn't always one and started of with noble intentions more in line with his other interpretation but someone who certainly lost his way before the events of the movie.

>>82602367
>This is what I'm getting at. If The Flash is telepathic and can send thoughts back in time why didn't he just send words saying what to do with clear instructions?

Because clear instructions executed at the wrong time could just end up guaranteeing the future you're trying to stop instead of preventing it.

>>82602506
So is The Flash telepathic in the comics?

>>82602469
It was a Knightmare, because Superman's destruction was that was all on his mind.

>>82602341
>Riami Spiderman
Did you really think that was good?
I went to see the first one and was meh, fucking green clown, and what felt like an hour of talking to his girlfriend about ho he can't be with her.

Pretty pissed, but friend convinces me to see the sequel.
"critics are good anon, they learned from their mistake".

Somewhat enjoying the movie.
Then, literally the exact same scene of bitching with his girlfriend about how they can't be together.

"Nope, they didn't learn, and they won't" is what I thought, And I've never touched Marvel/DC stuff again.

>>82600788
Me too. I can't wait to see what sort of part he plays in JL.

>>82602065

That scene works better if you ignore all the Flash business afterwards and just assume it's a nightmare Batman had of what he imagines would happen if Superman continued to live on earth

>>82602524
>Knightmare
What's that? When do they explain this in the movie?

>>82602527
Well I liked 2 and even 3 more.
3 was bloated but had it's moments and 2 was a solid movie.

>>82602560
If you look it up, Batman's dream sequence is called Knightmare.

>>82602552
>That scene works better if you ignore all the Flash business afterwards and just assume it's a nightmare Batman had of what he imagines would happen if Superman continued to live on earth

I did that (and it's an example of why it's a shit film) but that leads to another question: why does Superman continuing to live on the earth make The Devil and Demons appear? I know Snyder goes batshit crazy with his christian symbolism but that was just random as fuck, even for a dream.

>>82602493
It's the same source >>82602367 is using for a twenty-minute dream sequence/Flash encounter.

Since when do comic books=superheroes?

There are tons of great non capeshit comics out there, but pseudo nerd normies think that all comics are capeshit

>>82602610
Post the 2 hour long video of them talking only about Gondor lad.

>>82602602
Because they will be fighting Satan in Infinity War Part 1.

>>82602602

Because Batman probably thought Superman was the harbinger of an alien invasion.

>>82602617
Batman and Superman are super heroes.

It's the Guardians of the Galaxy who aren't superheros

>>82602641
Aliens from Hell?

>>82602522

See >>82602251

>>82602469
Safe money is on it being a side-effect of the Flash establishing a telepathic connection with Bruce through the wormhole.

>>82602663
The Flash isn't telepathic tho

>>82602676
Well at least someone answered me. Thank you.

>>82602662

I think their design is based on specific creatures from the comicbooks. Don't ask me, I'm not familiar with them.

>>82602619
If Bruce's dream and encounter with the Flash lasts twenty minutes(it doesn't), then they had to have talked about Gondor for at least two hours in LotR, right?

I see that reducto ad absurdum really isn't your thing.

>>82602740
The fuck are you talking about laddie post the vid

>>82602021
>aliens destroy city
>aliens bring their tech
>make no attempt to get some for 18 months because oh no I might be captured by the military

>oh wait I'm batman

How come Hulk can beat The Abomination but it takes Superman, Batman and Wonderwoman to do it? I thought Superman was Mary Sue Tier.

>>82602552
That doesn't really work as batman has no reason to know parademons exist, what they look like, and are the backbone of darkseid's armies, or that omega is the symbol of darkseid's interstellar conquests.

>>82602676
>>82602685

Neither is Zod.

https://youtu.be/V0dQRv-gyC8?list=PL42rZ9F2TCklQr2PKp7qhdPro-foWyuZD

>>82602643

Fuck all that capeshit or anything that remotely relates to it, there are great comic books that deal with other stuff than faggot racoons with guns or men with tights and capes

>be Snyder
>be shit director
>get popular by making mass-appeal shit
>hide entry-level themes and symbols behind first year film school cinematography
>critics and devoted audience members see right through this for the shit it is
>doesn't matter, subject matter alone draws in enough of an audience to make a profit
>keep getting work because of this

>>82600972
>/tv/ liked it so now I have to pretend to like it too and try to remember all the arguments why its supposed to be good if anyone ever asks me about it

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>>82599652
>A Batman who kills
>A mopey as fuck Superman
>A complete lack of understanding of The Dark Knight Returns as a whole, but particularly the end
>Film contains fucking Doomsday
>Robin had a halberd if we go by the suit in the case
>Lex Luthor is Max Landis

Because as we all know, Comic Book readers LOVE change. Apply yourself OP.

>>82602497
>weak and flawed human billionaire with a violent revenge fantasy

>he didn't just hire a PMC to find the guy who killed his mommy and daddy and punch him in the face a few times before having the PMC kill him

The main point is there are dozens of people alive right now with all the resources necessary to be batman. But none of them are. Because they're weak and flawed human beings who, every time, will choose a giant yacht full of scantily clad females over discomfort or physical exertion.

So, in a ""realistic"" world, trying to have a more realistic, human, and flawed batman means not having batman.

>>82602758
I'm sorry you're too stupid to follow what's being said, but not sorry enough to engage in further discussion about that stupidity.

>>82602849
So it's a holodeck he has? That was on his ship? This is funny because BvS now relies on two other movies for it's story to make sense. Man of Steel and a movie (that isn't going to get made, let's face it guys) in the future that reveals that The Flash is using a holodeck, has telepathy and can interface with the holodeck and then send his thoughts back in time instead of sending a message like he did later in the same movie.

>>82602972
ad hom let's see that video

>>82602761
As soon as they found something he thought was worthwhile, he didn't have any problem laying hands on it.

>>82602961
>Lex Luthor is Max Landis

Whoa there, that's more thought than snyder put into it.

Lex is just mark zuckerberg.

>>82602821

See, that's something you say as a person who does know what parademons are and who Darkseid is.

I did neither when I watched and all I got from it was "okay, so Batman envisions earths future as a postapocalyptic wasteland full of demon like aliens if he doesn't kill Superman". It didn't even occur to me that they were meant to be a reference to anything specific other than being a broadly dystopian vision. He thought earth would turn into a living hell with Superman so the aliens look like demons and that was that.

>>82602968

I'm no saying it's a more realistic interpretation that that in Nolans or Burtons movies, I'm just saying it's equally valid as the heroic depiction of Batman.

>>82603003
... uh, he did, actually, have a lot of problems laying hands on any alien tech. Ignoring the fact he wasn't looking for it at all, it took him months to figure out the white Portuguese (or whatever) was a boat.

>>82603050
Negro I don't even read the comics and I knew enough about the DC properties to know the "knightmare" wasn't bruce just having a paranoid nightmare of how he sees the future, it was a trailer for justice league.

>>82603050
>broadly dystopian vision
I would argue that it's not a "broad" dystopian vision. Imagine if you were watching The Road and then The Devil just appeared 3/4 of the way into the movie. You can't really put Demons in dystopian films because the fact that there are fallen angels running and flying around sort of takes away from the fact that it's a dystopian future.

>>82602976
It's specifically telepathic communication,

I find it hilarious that you cite having story elements coming into play from previous movies as indications of bad storytelling. It really drives home the level you're working from.

Now go ahead and tell me how having the explanation for what it takes to destroy the One Ring two movies removed from that actually occurring is more bad story-telling, or else keep your silence so we can all laugh at the massive hypocrite you are.

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>>82603010
Landis did make the cut, though.

>>82603050
My problem being how the snyderverse leans hard on this idea that it is being realistic and trying to ground the characters.

and the problem there is the nolans already applied the exact amount of realism that can work without seeming as a contradiction in terms by still having batman at all.

We haven't even gone into how a "human being" with literally every superpower would never become superman.

>Superman is literally canser to Earth which caused more harm than good
>Batman is insane retard who has no detective or tacticain skills and also can be triggered by word and manipulated easily
>Lex is mr.autismo
BvS is dissapointment of a decade

>>82602809
>Implying Doomsday isn't far stronger than Abomination

>>82603165
yes, that is a very accurate depiction of max landis

>>82603052
Nope, as soon as he found out about something that could hurt a Kryptonian, he was all over it.

>>82603137
Please answer my questions (because it seems that not only do you need to have watched other movies for BvS to make sense ((some that aren't out yet and will never get made)) but you also need to read comics as well).

Also, The Lord of the Rings is one story. There is a hint about that in the title of the three films. Are you saying that at The Council of Elrond there should have been no exposition and the Fellowship should have set off for Mordor without explaining to the audience why? That sounds suspiciously like Batman vs Superman.

>It's specifically telepathic communication

So why did The Flash (who is now telepathic top wat) link his mind to the holodeck on Zod's ship and then send it as a dream? Why not send it to a Batman that is awake? That way he can't write it off as a dream about Satan.

>>82603187
The only interpretation that works is the snyderverse is the bizzaro universe to nolan's universe.

and the plan is to, eventually, do Kingdom Come, and have the snyderverse invaded by the competent and intelligent counterparts who put all their idiotic counterparts in their place and fix the world. or at least try to.

>>82603169
>My problem being how the snyderverse leans hard on this idea that it is being realistic and trying to ground the characters.

It's doing the opposite, actually. Realistic, grounded characters were Nolan's thing. Snyder's taking what at first appeared to be a "Nolan" sort of world and slowly revealing that it's not over the course of these movies.

>>82603207
and batman does literally zero investigation into the ideas of "things that can kill superman" over the course of 18 months.

>>82603010
His acting and speech patters were far more reminiscent of Max Landis, even if he was clearly based on Zuckerberg.

Given that Eisenberg knows and has worked with Landis, its not unreasonable to think that he might have had him in mind while deciding on Lex's mannerisms.

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>>82599652
is pic related a motif in his works?

>>82603251
and the only reason there was any hint at all that snyder was aping nolan was the studios wanted more movies like TDKR.

>>82603111

You could say the same for Zombies and yet we've still become so accostumed to the idea of a Zombie apocalypse that the living dead just seem like a natural element of the postapocalypse.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm aware that a zombie apocalypse is an established setting while a demon apocalypse isn't but then, i didn't think take them for literal demons but for aliens that were designed to remind the viewer of demons because Lex and to an extent Bruce viewing Superman and by extension aliens in general as "demons coming from the sky" was established earlier.

>>82603169

To me Snyders version of this world seems deliberately less realistic than Nolans. Has to, because in a setting as realistic as Nolans Superman or Wonder Woman just wouldn't exist.

It has a lot more fantasy and science-fiction elements than the world Nolan's Batman inhabited.

>>82603235
Snyderverse also works as interpretation of Earth-3. But better solution is fast Flashpoint to reboot this shit up.

>>82603283
>WB is so braindead they wanted more movies like TDKR

this... this explains everything

>>82603234

I already did answer your questions.

>Are you saying that at The Council of Elrond there should have been no exposition and the Fellowship should have set off for Mordor without explaining to the audience why?

According to you, their presence would have only been validated by each of them having solo movies first, totally self-contained solo movies that only referenced the larger story in an after-credits "bonus" scene, if I had to guess.

Later, hypocrite.

>>82603298
Sue me, but I just want magog acting like boyscout superman.

>>82603283
>>82603301

Snyder and the creative team already wrote the broad strokes of entire myth arc before Man of Steel was even filmed.

>>82601334
"We project ourselves onto him"

>Batman projects himself on to Superman

Stick to Marvel

It's amazing how deep you think capeshit is.

Can you just imagine the power of destruction Snyder bringed on images of Batman and Superman? You will never see a proper discussion of their friendship/conflicts/stories/adventures without seeing MARTHA jokes. This unfunny cancer spreaded at everything Batman/Superman releated discussion nowdays. The most iconic heroes, their motives and conflicts is a joke for people because Goyer and Snyder were too stupid and lazy to make better plot.

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>>82603251
Snyder certainly isn't doing the opposite. Nolan was the whole post TDKR desire to make comic books as realistic as possible taken to its Zenith.

Snyder certainly isn't as far down that road as Nolan was, but he's hardly a million miles away.

>>82599652
I dont read comics, never have but bvs is my favourite capeshit. Explain that

>>82600788
You're not alone brother

>>82603282
Is this the PG-13 cut? Where are the arrows?

>>82603496
It's that he started with the grounded and is moving more and more into the comic book/fantasy.

Stop for a moment and try to imagine Nolan's Batman finding out that the "mythological" gods were actually real.

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>>82601498
>Complete annihilation of Metropolis.
If not for Superman, Zod would have terraformed the planet though. I can understand not trusting Supes, thinking he's a threat, but hating him for collateral damage sustained by him literally saving the planet? Seems a bit of an overreaction

>>82603194
In this shit movie it wasn't

>>82603611
If not for Superman, Zod wouldn't be here in the first place. And so is Doomsday. And bomb in the court. Snyder literally turned Superman into the cancer to Earth.

>>82603595
>Started with the grounded
With a film about a flying man with laser vision who stopped the planet from being terraformed by an alien General? Oh also said flying man contains the genetic map for his entire species?

MoS wasn't grounded at all.

>>82603611
Bruce Wayne's entire psychology is about externalizing his grief. His grief over the losses he suffered, both to his business and to his extended family of acquaintances and employees, required a target. Superman became that target.

>>82602968

What about in the Nolan movies, which showed Bruce Wayne as a wounded orphan motivated to action by a desire to cope with loss, and who enters a state of serious depression when he experiences loss again with the death of his girlfriend?

Maybe we come from different worlds, but Batman is a wounded person who made himself strong because he is afraid of being weak. He uses his suffering as a weapon that allows himself to become the hero that wasn't there when he was a child. Of course Batman is definitely a heroic and strong person, but there is absolutely an internal character to Batman, beyond being just a hero and a symbol. It's extremely rare to see a Batman story that doesn't include some moment where he suffers grief.

>>82603675
Superman isn't and never was grounded - the world he got dropped into was.

>>82603378
That's a load of bullshit.

WB decided that MoS was going to be the "first chapter of the DC cinematic universe" after Avengers made a billion dollars; shit like the Wayne Industries satellite and the Lexcorp truck was added way during post-production, even Nolan was surprised to see that shit in the finished movie.

>>82603674
Next time someone invites you to their house, make sure to wreck the place and kill somebody. Tell the police it was the guy's fault for inviting you over in the first place and see how far that gets you.

Everything you need to know about Snyderverse that he turned kind Kanzas couple of countryside people into dumb paranoidal rednecks who think that:
>kids deserve to die if it somehow can harm you
>you don't owe other people a thing even if you bringed death on them and also have almost unlimited power to help them
>dead horses

>>82600788
Agreed. Everyone disagreed with me, but I really liked him a lot.

>>82603611

Zodd started destroying Earth specifically because Superman was there and wouldn't show himself, and he announced that in front of the planet, specifically to have people blame Superman for the carnage.

>>82603791
Why would someone invite me if I'm capable of these things? Are they retarded?

>>82603791

Get into a fight that destroys a skyscraper. See what happens.

>>82603855
You mean you're not?

Hey did you guys notice that Batman was wrong in this movie?

>>82603879
Well, I'm not a mindless maniac who wants do die in prison. Are you?

>>82603802

Moronic take-away which says a hell of a lot more about you than it does the movie.

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>>82603802
I'm no defender of Snyder, but that's not what happened in the film at all.

It was a father who could see the crazy shit that his son could do and was worried about what would happen if word got out that his son could do all that stuff. He wasn't saying that one shouldn't help people or let kids die, he's clearly conflicted between a genuine fear for his son and knowing that his son did right

>Should I have just let them die?
>...Maybe...

He clearly didn't mean "yes you should let them die" he just didn't want to praise and endorse action that could lead his son to harm.

>>82603823
Bullshit. Zod started wrecking things because Clark wouldn't give him access to the one thing that would have guaranteed he'd kill us all.

>>82603823
And he would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for that meddling bloke in the blue suit. Because literally no other fucker could have stopped Zod. Superman clearly saved the world. Bruce seeing that and still being mad as hell makes no sense.

Like I said before, a lack of trust? Absolutely, but an actual outright hatred.

These movies are janky and schizophrenic, but the amount of people I see shitting on them for the dumbest wrong reasons in these threads always makes me like them more.

>>82604012
*Actual hatred? Nah.

>>82603918
But by your logic, you've already got a get-out-of-jail-free card because everyone's supposed to be psychic. They're supposed to know what you'll do before they ever invite you in the first place and if you turn out to be a total asshole, that's all their fault, not yours.

By your logic, when the alien fleet shows up to subjugate the Earth brandishing one of the gold discs from the probes we shot out into the Universe, our first course of action should be tracking down the descendants of the people who built those probes and lynch them all.

>>82603940
>you child is having some really cool powers
>instead of exploring them and seeing that your son capable of, you're scaring him so hard that he is not revealing himself until alien invasion shows up and literally forcing him to do that.

>>82603508

It's better if you aren't too invested in the comic book versions of these characters and don't mind a different interpretation.

>>82604012
>>82603975

Bruce is a flawed old fuck with a chip on his shoulder in this movie, who was actually completely incorrect in his rash and wounded judgement. The movie starts with his existential nightmare regarding his parents death, then immediately shows him relating Superman to that nightmare in the very next seen, where he is shown to be on the ground trying to save his orphans in a 9/11 situation, then his entire working staff is killed in a building that collapses due to this fight between two violent aliens who just showed up literally that day out of nowhere.

Do you understand how that might color the opinion of someone who already responds to grief and survivor's guilt with violence?

>>82604195

Sounds realistic desu. Like a mother who doesn't want her son to go to war.

>>82604083
Nice analogy, but you're wrong since there are no superpowerful aliens who will come. But Kal-El KNEW that there ARE someone like him and didn't even consiered thought about them being evil. He was just like
>let me push that button lol
without proper research of alien tech

>>82599652
It is? you guys are this easily impressed?... I mean I guess you read comics so okay.

>>82604289
I'm pretty sure mother would be okay if her son is indestractble and superpowerful and other soldiers will be like ants for him.

>>82604266
Oh, I totally do, but Clark was actually cooperating with Zod right up till the point where it became plain that Zod had absolutely every intention of genociding Earth if Clark gave him what he wanted.

I see where you're coming from though, with Bruce not being any more privy to that knowledge than anyone else in the public would have been at the time. Ultimately, Bruce blames Clark because Bruce is Bruce, and his life has taught him to externalize his grief to deal with it, and that people, even good people, don't stay that way,

>>82604347

The point is that they're a family dealing with an extraordinary circumstance with love and compassion, and not DC Wiki documentarians who love watching their son get shot and kill people just because he can get away with it.

>>82604347
It's not necessarily physical harm. What if people find out about him and try manipulating him? With his power, people aren't just going to ignore it. They're going to want to use him for their own gains.

Jonathan just wants his son to be able to live his life freely.

>>82604298
You're right. Zod's totally blameless. You do get that part of what's bothering Clark throughout BvS is his guilt over the events of MoS, right?

The disconnect here is that you give him all the blame for bringing them, yet none of the credit for stopping them when they turned out to be unreasonable assholes. All the destruction is Clark's fault, none of it the Kryptonian's, which is why I say your logic is flawed and illustrate it by example of saying that you and everyone else who thinks like you should feel free to just wreck the shit of everyone who ever invites you to their home, because it's all their fault for inviting you in the first place. You'll be completely blameless, because all the other logical, reasoning people who see what happened will assign all the blame in the same way that you do.

>>82604602
>What if people find out about him and try manipulating him?

Worse. What if they start thinking of him as a god? How do you parent uphill against that? How do you offer instruction and discipline to a teenager who not only already thinks he's a god, but already has people who agree with him?

>>82604602

Or maybe some billionaire psychopath would dedicate his life into making Superman a self-hating murderous villain by continuously kidnapping, torturing and detonating every single person chose to them.

>>82604539
>love and compassion
>HIDE CLARK PEOPLE ARE BAD
lol
>>82604602
>They're going to want to use him for their own gains.
Well, real Superman is smart enough to not let them do that. And since Edgeman is really dumb, I guess, you're right.

>>82604696

He's not saying it was truly all Superman's fault, he's explaining the point of view where people blame Superman. Wholesale destruction of first world cities tend to cloud the victims' judgement.

And the government and public actually were reaching out to Superman in this movie. The only people who weren't bending over backwards to give him a chance were Batman and Lex.

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>>82604853
Yes, because Jonathan Kent knows how his son will grow up, and therefore shouldn't worry because "real superman is smart"

>>82604878
No, he pretty much is.

>>82603674

>>82599652
it was basically two movies in one that they rushed through and spliced together horribly.

>>82604853

They were trying to give Clark the sympathy and compassion that a human child would get from their mother and father so that he may have a normal childhood that will help him make balanced and human decisions as a superpowered adult, rather than raising their son as a sacrificial weapon obligated to suffer as a self-hating God under the burden of all mankind's imperfection.

>>82605021
Well, Jonathan Kent SHOULD make Superman smart and knowing of his powers so it shouldn't happen. And so he could help people. But, yeah, better hide for his entire life. Again, if not Zod, Clark woud hide like a rat helping random people despite LET THEM DROWN.

>>82605131

He was doing his best. He was only a man trying to teach a God how to be human.

Reminder that Ma and Pa Kent are Christians and the last time God appeared on Earth humans slew Him.

>>82605092
>They were trying to give Clark the sympathy and compassion
And they have failed because they're terrible human beings in Snyderverse.
>LET THEM DROWN
>DEAD HORSES
>FUCK THEM CLARK, YOU DON'T OWE THIS SHITTY PLANET AND THESE GARBAGE PLANET A THING
>>82605192
Well, real Pa Kent managed to raised decent human being. This paranoidal redneck raised a scared alien who only loves and cares about Lois and his mommy. Everyone else is BAD and MEAN.

>>82605302
Are you autistic son?

He clearly cares about saving people, otherwise he would keep doing it and having to keep uprooting his life each time.

>>82605358
Are you delusional anon?

He HATES saving people, he does that only because plot forces him to do that. Have you seen his face? Have you heard his lines?
>NOTHING STAYS GOOD IN THIS WORLD I HATE IT SO MUCH ALL THESE MEAN HUMANS TALKING ABOUT ME REEEEEEEE

>>82605302

I agree that it makes for a weaker Superman movie, but the whole point of the movie is to be a realistic struggle on the complicated issue of Superman. If you seriously take Pa Kent's words at face value and can't read struggle out of Costner's performance then I don't know what to tell you. It's there's though.

>>82603378
You know that supports the idea that WB wanted more movies like TDKR, right?

>>82605492
>It's supposed to be pseudo-realistic garbage which sole purpose was to ride on Nolan success, you just don't understand!
I got ya, mate.

>>82605419
If he hated it, he wouldn't keep doing it. He wouldn't keep uprooting his life.

>>82605419
>god damnit plot let me be the insane god-king dictator of the world my characterization so far has made me so desperately want to be
>NO, YOU MUST BE SUPERMAN
>reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>82605625
You're acting as if superman is a real entity with thoughts and feelings. He isn't.

This is a character written by people. Inconsistently. As it needs to tick off all the marks of being "superman" and adhere to snyder's idea that all superheros should be watchmen.

>>82605607

I actually completely agree with you. The movies are shit because they intentionally bog down an idealistic story with self-hatred and then do nothing to recover the original meaning. That being said the movie is still internally consistent.

>>82605625
He is doing it only because he is supposed to be space jesus. Have you seen disgust on his face? He is not enjoying being around people at all. He hates these pathetic human beings who needs to be saved.
>>82605640
More like brooding whiny fag who only wants to fuck Lois, but almost right.

>>82605703
>the movie is still internally consistent.

This is a franchise where a military general, upon learning that all of his people born on a certain planet will be literal gods, immediately decides to terraform that world to remove all of the characteristics of it that would turn literally every kryptonian born there into a literal god.

But I realize you said movie, not franchise.

This is a movie where a billionaire can be clearly completely insane and unstable, yet every member of the government falls over themselves to give him whatever he wants.

also this a movie where one of the central plotlines was "SUPERMAN KILLED PEOPLE WITH BULLETS IN AFRICA"

>>82605694
No, I'm talking from the perspective of the character in the film.

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>>82600972
Watching BvS is much like the journey out of Plato's cave. We are the prisoners shackled to the darkest depths of the cave, forced to watch shadow puppets (Marvel Avengers bullshit dirt) cast by a dim fire (Disney) behind us. Years of conditioning have deluded us, the shadows are calm and harmless, watching them is "fun" and the cave is cool and comfortable. One would be seen as mad to want to leave the cave. Only the strongest can break their chains, and one needs willpower to climb the steep and rocky way out. Once one escapes, the light (BvS) is blinding. The intensity brings pain to undeveloped eyes, and many would reject it, choosing to retreat back into the cave. But if one endures the pain, if one stays patient, their eyes will adjust and become stronger. And once one has become adapted, they will find an infinity of beauty thriving under the sun's natural rays. The natural world around you is as dangerous as it is beautiful, and some would still prefer to look at harmless shadows, but the brave always embrace the truth. This is your mind on kino.

>>82605818
Zod upon arriving on Earth felt enormous pain. He could endure it because he was a grown man with military training. But he understood it was not a world fit for the raising of children.
He saw Clark's memories. He saw years of humans bullying him. He saw his difficulties adjusting to the atmosphere. Clark's mother spoke of her fears that he would die as a baby, because he had difficulty breathing. The only reason Clark survived as an infant was likely the DNA his father gave him allowing him to adapt easily. Regular Kryptonian babies would probably suffer a high mortality rate.

The controversy about Superman in Africa isn't that they believe he shot those people. Their bodies were charred leading many to think he used his heat vision without a proper autopsy. In addition, news that the government came to village in retaliation and attacked survivors. Simply by intervening, Superman inspires conflict, even if not his intention. This is why the government thinks he should be checked, because his very presence upsets people. This ties into Lex fabricating a "terrorist bombing" at the Capitol using Keefe.

>>82605419

He doesn't hate saving people, he hates constantly having to see people in terrible situations and he hates knowing that no matter how many he can save there are still even more he can't. There's absolutely nothing that would imply he isn't motivated by genuine altruism and the the moral certainty that a person with his powers has the responsibility to use them for good.

It's like asking why a paramedic or a doctor in a third world country doesn't always act cheerful even though he's trying to do good. Sure, this version of Superman is a bit more somber than other ones but give the guy a break, he has to deal with a lot of pretty though shit.

>>82606599
>This amount of headcannon

>>82605419
>Nobody stays good in this world
He literally says that because he's being forced to kill one man to save another, his own mother.
When he saves that Mexican girl you can see him smiling. The smile only fades away when he looks at the burning building, knowing that he came too late to stop that. He loves to save people, that's why he feels so sad when he fails.

>>82605818.
>This is a movie where a billionaire can be clearly completely insane and unstable, yet every member of the government falls over themselves to give him whatever he wants.

Have you read the news lately, mate?

>>82606676
It's all in the dialogue, brainlet

>This is a movie where a billionaire can be clearly completely insane and unstable, yet every member of the government falls over themselves to give him whatever he wants.
This has to be fucking bait

>>82606810
So it's like real life?

>>82606780
When does Zod say that Kryptonian babies wouldn't be able to survive in Earths atmosphere? His only frame of reference is Superman.

>>82605547
Nope, because look what we're getting as time goes on - ancient alien sentient weapons, mythological pantheons that are real, interdimensional invasions. None of that's got anything in common with Nolan's Batman, neither in tone nor content.

They're giving us a world that *looked* like Nolan's until you scratched the surface and underneath it was all this "myth" that wasn't really myth, and the bonus is they're making Superman the figure who woke it all back up. If you can't see the statement that's making about Superman's importance in comics history, I really don't know what tell you.

>>82605694
If you don't treat the characters as real people, there's no point in having characters, is there?

>>82606648
>can't find a bomb
>can't give a proper speech to people
>can't be a good hero
>pretty though shit.
He just bad at being Superman.
>>82606712
>He literally says that because he's being forced to kill one man to save another
Nice headcanon you got here. Also funny that he immediatly forgot about his mother's life after Bruce disturbed him with bullets and noises.

>>82605818
>This is a movie where a billionaire can be clearly completely insane and unstable, yet every member of the government falls over themselves to give him whatever he wants.

He wasn't unstable until after he had access. Compare his behavior at the start of the film to his behavior at the end. You can actually see him succumbing to the strain of processing all the knowledge he's gained.

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I dunno, I just enjoyed the hell out of Batman with prep time. Shame he went with Lex Luthor & co instead of an actual adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns.

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>>82606712
>When he saves that Mexican girl you can see him smiling. The smile only fades away when he looks at the burning building, knowing that he came too late to stop that. He loves to save people, that's why he feels so sad when he fails.

As a point of fact, he starts losing his smile when he sees the way the crowd is reacting to him - not as a hero, but as some sort of object of worship. That's what's bothering him. He's slowly coming to the realization that he can do everything right, save people, stop disasters, but still lead us straight to hell.

He's learning that when you're Superman, your approach is every bit as important as your delivery. Want to know why he's just hanging there above the flood? This is what he's looking down at - what sort of message does it send if he rescues this family first? How about last?

>>82607226
It pretty much was an adaptation of TDKR with the roles reversed and the message brought up to date. That's up to and including the talking heads on the television and the "fake" death.

>>82607226
>prep time
>only reason he won because Superman is so arrogant asshle that can't dodge slow grenades
>Superman throws Batman EXACTY into building where kryptonite spear is

>>82607052
Yes, shoving candy into a senator's mouth is the act of a perfectly sane and stable individual.

>>82606844
Jor-El: Our people can coexist.
General Zod: So we can suffer through years of pain trying to adapt, like your son has?
Jor-El: You're talking about genocide.
General Zod: Yes. And I'm arguing its merits with a ghost.
Jor-El: We're both ghosts, Zod. Can't you see that? The Krypton you're clinging onto is gone!

>>82606994
This is one of the main complaints about the DCEU so far.

>>82606011
The character has no perspective and hasn't been allowed to develop organically.

>>82607327
>Superman throws Batman EXACTY into building where kryptonite spear is
You mean the building directly behind where Batman is standing? Superman threw him to the roof, after being hit with Kryptonite, Batman pushed him into the floors beneath and eventually threw him off the balcony to where the spear was.

That's the power of prep time.

>>82607442
>Wah! They shouldn't suffer through years of pain only to then become gods!

Fuck off. Clark was relatively fine by the time he was about 10. Growing pains with the powers manefesting, sure but beyond that, nah.

Also nowhere in the film does it say that Clark only survived because of the Kryptonian matrix thing. There's nothing to suggest Kryptonian babies would die.

>>82607316
Lex and Doomsday plot was out of place exactly because everything else was from the comic more or less. Dare I say it felt forced?

>>82607552
Well, this Batman's prep time only works because Snyder's Superman is braindead retard. He could just fly above Batman and he wouldn't do a shit to him.

>>82607327
He only won because Superman actively didn't want to kill him, he wanted to talk. Going by Man of Steel, Supes can basically traverse the planet in very little time at all. If he wanted Batman dead, he'd be a red smear. That's not even including heat vision or whatever from afar.

This is something batfags always misunderstand about TDKR. Superman didn't want to fight in the first place.

He was also severely weakened by a nuke, which then blotted out the sun weakening his ability to regenerate, but Snyder clearly didn't think that was too important.

>>82600972
> he had to put hours of meta research in to understand the film

I'm not sure this is how a good film works.

Probably an unfair comparison but take 2001. The novel fills in a LOT of blanks that the vast majority of people simply wouldn't be able to glean from the film alone. However, reading the novel isn't *necessary* in order to appreciate the film.

I guess I understand where you're coming from. After I read the supplementary stuff for Donnie Darko I was more inclined to defend the film when people said it was confusing and stupid. At least DD has merit though, unlike SVB, which was unmitigated shit. I say this not only as a comic fan, but as someone who digs symbolism and metaphor in film.

>>82607941

But he didn't gain an appreciation for it by consuming information foreigj to the movie but by watching it multiple times and discussimg it with other people. And I think it's perfectly valid that someone would start to appreciate a movie more, the more they've seen and talked about it.

>>82608052
> And I think it's perfectly valid that someone would start to appreciate a movie more, the more they've seen and talked about it.

I totally agree with this. My issue is that his transition from *hating* the film to *loving* it basically required a bunch of research. If the merit of the film depends entirely upon understanding symbolism and metaphor - necessarily external factors.

As far as I can tell, in terms of symbolism, it's much the same shit as almost any incarnation of Supes you care to name. Superman is our supernatural saviour, grand story of good vs evil, yadda yadda.

It seems altogether more likely that he caught wind that Reddit was rejecting SVB and suddenly became very open to reasons to like it. Or am I being cynical?

>>82608376

Correction:

> Almost as if the merit of the film depends [..]

>>82608376

Nah, I think reddit named it one of their top 10 "underrated" movies too. I'm kinda with that guy to be honest, I also disliked it at first and came around later. Namely because a guy I follow on YouTube talked about it on his Twitter and pointed out a bunch of stuff that I honestly missed. When I watched it again I realized that I just wasn't paying attention to a lot of stuff that wasn't even all that subtle and a lot of what I thought was superfluous and pointless was actually faiy clever.

I think many people watched it with the wrong expectations, especially after all the negative reviews it got and warmed up to it after watching it again with an open mind.

I wouldn't say I loved it but it did deserve better.

>>82608638

I knew it was going to be a mashup of a bunch of Superman/Batman stories and went in with fairly neutral expectations, but the only things I particularly enjoyed were Eisenberg's performance and the fact that Afflect is a decent Bruce Wayne.

I'm happy to dig a bit deeper to see what difference it makes, but I'm not sure how it will. Who's the Youtube guy?

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>>82607670
Superman was in pussy mode. He would have had to take Bats down sooner or later. Batman had the perfect opportunity and he used it to fake his own death so that Superman wouldn't have to deal with his shitty morals. His victory was perfect. This is what superfags misunderstand about TDKR.

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>This thread is still going

>>82608755

Hbomberguy. Usually talks more about video games but, again, brought it up on Twitter and made me consider that maybe I just wasn't giving the movie enough of a chance.

I think it's interesting that you point out Eisemberg's Luthor as something you like because that was one of the things I didn't get on my first watch. Took me another one to understand what he was doing with it.

>>82607651
He could... but the entire reason he is confronting Batman is because his mother is being hostage. In a real fight he would just hover there but he is trying to get close enough to Bruce to talk to him.

>>82608376
>As far as I can tell, in terms of symbolism, it's much the same shit as almost any incarnation of Supes you care to name. Superman is our supernatural saviour, grand story of good vs evil, yadda yadda.

As far as you can tell.

The framing of Superman as a godlike figure, whether that's Jesus, the Titan Atlas or some Hindu deity, isn't to show he is our savior. It is to show how other people in that story see him. The story of that movie is about how we project ourselves onto other figures, it is human nature to want to bestow meaning onto everything, to find patterns and have that validate our feelings. This is why Lex uses mass media to manipulate Bruce and Clark. The images they see, the words they hear, they're tailored to fit their biases.

>>82607256
I still don't really like this movie, but now that you've explained this, I think this scene is quite good. Do you have any other examples from the film of moments like this one, with particular thematic depth?

The movie was overlong, the dialogue was extremely cringeworthy and wooden, and the fighting was pretty underwhelming, but the thematic content regarding Superman was pretty interesting. Batman's motivations were reasonable, but the decision to kill Superman was stupid. The dude's a genius detective, wouldn't he realize that Superman blowing up a Congressional hearing with zero follow-up or further assassinations was out of character for him, not to mention just useless tactically?

I don't like most Marvel movies, FWIW, but a work of art will naturally invite criticism when its self-seriousness writes a check its ridiculous dialogue and mediocre actors can't cash.

>>82599652
I read lots of comic books and this movie was trash.

>>82607442
This is laughable. "Oh nooo, I have superpowers, but look completely human. How will I ever adapt?!"

Regular people suffer every day a hell of a lot more than Superman suffered just because he was confused as a child by the fact that he could fly, hit things really hard, and had laser vision. Hell, if there were more Kryptonians on Earth, and their presence was known, they could collectively bargain against humans for the utilization of their abilities and make tons of cash, unlike Superman who has to do everything for free. They would win any war, too, as long as they made sure early enough that humans couldn't access any kryptonite.

>>82599652
I hate every comic book movie and I'm sorry to say it but BvS is easily one of the worst of them.

>>82610364
This anon gets it

>>82609195
>Millar should have written Superman as a different character because killing is epic :^)

He didn't need to kill him, he could have crippled him like what happened to Green Arrow. Sure he can still fire arrows with his teeth, but it's pretty apparent that losing an arm basically ruined him