James Cameron killed the Alien Franchise

>>82551719

Everyone knew this. Even Fox.

That's a vast over simplification, but I agree to some extent. The Xeno in the 1st movie was portrayed as being at least in the ballpark of human intelligence, especially since it was still (time-wise) very young. The Cameron Xenos were basically cannon fodder bugs. It always bothered me, but I understand the choice he made. You couldn't have the hoarde running around quoting Shakespeare the whole movie.

>>82551856
>You couldn't have the hoarde running around quoting Shakespeare the whole movie.
I'd watch it

>>82551719
Being fair, the Xeno in Alien was up against mostly unarmed humans who were definitely untrained, AND the Xenos in Aliens killed pretty much 2/3rds of the Marines during the first encounter. They also cut the power, man, they're not animals.

I love Alien, but Aliens isn't as abysmal as contrarians make it out to be.
Honestly the perfect organism just because an oopsie daisy one off science project by aliens that are the same as us biologically but aren't us is far worse than anything Aliens could've hoped to do.

>>82551719

not knowing the alien's motivations was just another thing that made it so scary. it could be just as smart or smarter than humans for all we know, and could just be totally sadistic. something evil. we just don't know, its origins and designs are totally unknown.

>but nah its just a giant space hornet

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Reminder:

"Aliens made the first Alien look like a cucumber sandwich." - Sigourney Weaver

>>82551719
The aesthetic in the first Alien movie is so much better than in Aliens. Aliens feels very much like a product of the 80's.

>>82552157
The aesthetic is very much the same. I don't think you know what aesthetic means.

>>82552208

>The aesthetic is very much the same.

No it isn't. Hes right and you're either blind or confused about what you think "aesthetic" means.

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Aliens > Alien

Dont mess with The God of /tv/

>>82552050
What did she mean by this?

Aliens had the better story, alien had better atmosphere.

>>82551719
Aliens was better. Deal with it, plebs.

>>82552208
The aesthetic of Alien was dark and gritty and a lot more subdued. Aliens was more goofy and bright with a lot of guns and explosions. It's really just the difference between 70s and 80s cinema.

>>82552357
>I think adjective, adjective, adjective

Wow so insightful anon

>>82552208

nah he's right. in general, alien has a 70s aesthetic, aliens has an 80s aesthetic. things like the decor of the interiors and the looks of the electronics, things like that. but beyond that obvious stuff there is other differences as well. aliens is bleak, but not devoid of life. the planet at least sees light. in alien, the planet seems like its in the darkest farthest region of space where light doesn't reach. its incredibly gloomy and surreal. and i always liked the way the biomechanical look of the alien matched the look of the interior of the alien ship. it was a subtle hint of things to be expanded upon that never came to pass.

>>82552341
>Aliens had the better story

My headcanon is that Xenomorphs in hives become dumber as they have the Queen's hive mind to order them around. When seperated from a hive, they are allowed free reign over their minds and thus become intelligent.

>>82552357
I wonder if a second, I guess you could call it Space horror/thriller would have been the correct choice to go with Alien's sequel. I think action movie was the correct path to go. We saw in the first one the xenomorph moving through the shadows and striking people alone. It gave a hint of what its abilities were, but it left people craving to see the alien unleashed and up against trained soldiers. It's kind of like why they shoehorned in Darth Vader at the end of the Rogue One movie. You saw Anakin unleashed fighting people, but you never really saw Darth Vader go all out and fuck a bunch of dudes up while in suit. You saw strikes here and there, but people wanted the full potential. I believe that's what Aliens was. I think the third one, or maybe even this new one, would have been better if it stepped up its game and made it an infestation of Earth. Go full fucking Zerg, destruction of the planet, and people fighting to survive.

>>82552462
You are welcome to make an argument anytime

>>82552050
well, women are dumb.

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I've always preferred how the alien moved in the first movie. Standing upright and walking like a human. In Aliens it just crawls around on all fours like a bug or an animal

>>82552357
The aesthetic to alien and a lot of big sci fi at the time, like blade runner and some of Star Wars was taken from Jodorowskys dune bible, it never got made but the bible was passed around a lot in Hollywood and gave everyone ideas for a lot of sci fi visuals at the time

>>82552545

lol you first fucktard

>>82552594
It moved like a dumb ass at times in the first alien, like the part where it kills the one lady and the black dude, the whole time he's telling her to move out of the way so he can shoot it and the alien is just standing their waving its arms up and down, took me out of the movie and made me remember it's just a guy in a suit.

>>82552406

>descriptive words are just a meme

are you retarded?

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>>82551719
>The perfect organism
It was far from perfection. Actually it was kinda shit compared to aliens

>>82552652
Okay aliens has an actual theme, character arc for Ripley and even a set up for said arc.

Alien has no character arcs and is really just a series of interesting events that play out.

>>82552208
mong

>>82552254

Yeah it's because Aliens just has that sort of Cameron softness and flatness that he brings sometimes to his image.

>>82552406
mong

>>82552661
You are for thinking you actually said anything other than "alien good, aliens bad".

You literally just used adjectives with good connotations to describe alien and ones with bad connotations to describe aliens, with out even giving examples or proof.

Aliens is more goofy because it had more bright colors, how fucking retarded is that?

>>82552739

You seem to be overlooking the bonus situation

>>82552830

>demanding examples and proof from a two-line 4chan post
>when we all know he's right anyway because the adjectives he picked were fitting

Doesn't it get uncomfortable having your head jammed all the way up your bunghole?

>>82552868
I overlooked nothing, the situation brings more impact in aliens because, from ripleys nightmares, we know she never wants to go to that planet or see another one of those things again, versus characters who are aloof to the situation. The former brings fear, a common emotion that gets us interested.

Her fear is even multiplied and given more focus when juxtaposed to the marines who think they are unstoppable.

>>82552519
After playing some of the games over the years, my headcanon has always been the xeno in Alien was a warrior type, while the xenos in Aliens were drones.

>>82552868
I think we need to discuss the bonus situation

>>82551719
They weren't complete fools in Aliens. Ripley was able to point her flamethrower at the eggs and the Alien queen recognised it as a threat and told the drones to back off. Maybe when they horde they don't need strategy so they just run headfirst rather than pick people off one by one.

>>82552923
>Movies are these special things with that special something that we really can't describe. But we'll do our best by throwing around adjectives that merely describe the movie in a superficial way

>aliens is the more normy vote and alien is more artsy because Ridley Scott, giger, blade runner so it's just better even though I have way of describing way

Pick both

If you rewatch Aliens, you'll realize that the amount of xenos killed isn't that high.

The marines were fucking butchered

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Hello, I'm here to discuss your bonus situation

Alien was a horror film. Aliens was an action film. Your preference depends on which of the two genres you prefer.

It's all rap culture

>>82553304
Its a different genre but you can still compare them in terms of characters, pacing, effects, acting, vision and so forth. All that is completely doable for an action movie, take matrix for instance. Aliens obviously doesnt have characters, is badly paced, looks extremely dated (alien doesnt, strangely) and turns the alien into a zombie. Basically harmless cannonfodder. Its a pretty bad sequel really that misses the point completely.

>>82553455
You clearly don't know anything about story

>>82552545
Alien
"A mining ship is secretly rerouted by an unnamed corporation and their science officer, an undercover android who seems to be partly malfunctioning (both proving to be the primary antagonists from beginning to end), to the darkest farthest region of space in order to investigate a faint creepy as fuck signal and retrieve a perfect organism only matched by its hostility from a dark world and its ancient mysterious surreal ship. In there, the monster begins to kill, stalk, and basically rape the entire crew of characters that actually behave like real people in what genuinely feels like a claustrophobic and dreadful situation. with the underlying subtexts of horror, sexuality, corporatism and the fears of technology, The trip from that specific planet and earth takes years, hence, interesting solutions like hypersleep"

Aliens
"The sole survivor is casually found in space decades after the disaster, for no reason. At the exact same time, a colony who was sent to the previous planet, for no reason, suddenly stops responding back. This didn't happen in the 57 years of our beloved protagonists sleeping, but at the exact same time she was found, as the dumb colonists never got exploring past the first mile radius until right now. The previously unseen corporation is no longer this ominous presence, but just an incompetent corp who seems to be actually unaware of the previous mission, and will later stop being relevant at the mid of the film. It turns out, Ripley had a previously not mentioned daughter that she left alone during her 11 year work trip, for no reason, but now so seemingly cares so much about. Mostly unnamed space marines who act like teenagers on slasher movies (cannon fodder), a "cute" girl who survived, for no reason (but needs to be rescued every 10 seconds) to replace the unseen daughter, dumb space bugs, dumb dialogue written by a 10 year old, MECHAS, MORE ALIENS, FUCK YEAH, MAN. The trip just takes 17 days now. and not entire years"

>>82551719
James Cameron is just a glorified thinking mans Michael Bay

>>82553632
You seriously have nostalgia critic levels of critiquing.

>>82553631
care to elaborate?

>>82553654
Fuck do people not know shit about story, no wonder your tastes are so predictable and contrarian.

>>82551719
Since Ridley Scott wants to make an Alien sequel that will over-write Aliens as I have heard - will it be a masterpiece?

Alien weren't supposed to be vulnerable in the first alien movie? Like they can't even be destroyed by a nuclear explosion, etc.

>>82552295
Rch people eat cucumber sandwiches at fancy parties. Rich people are also perceived as being more intelligent and enlightened.

Therefore, Alien is for smart people with refined taste, whereas Aliens is fast food for the white trash mind.

>>82553811
unvulnerable*

>>82551719
Literally watched Alien last night and Aliens tonight.

Aliens is better by far. Amazing how far they came in just 7 years. Visuals were leaps and bounds ahead. Acting was better. Less stupid character shit.

>>82552594
Alien > Aliens

Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFpgu1L1YIc

>>82553738
Naw hes completely right. Alien is about exploration and survival and there is a ton of subtext ranging from sexuality to class warfare. Its interesting to watch even after 10 times. What does aliens have to say other than fuck yeah marines vs. monsters? Even ripley gets dumbed down to well, a mother. And its not a surprise. Cameron admits himself he is mostly interested in making state of the art action movies. He loves technology and effects, he doesnt care about story at all.

>>82553907
"less stupid character shit"

I bet you love capeshit

>>82553738
Aliens is an incredibly fucking dumb move plagued by stupid plot-holes, and ridiculous convinieses at every turn that trivialized a master piece and pretty much ruined the entire point and mystery of it, but looks great. Also fuck Gieger, we don't need him for Aliens, lol
As a stand alone film, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it turned a bleak masterpiece into a dumb action movie, not even an intelligent one.

>>82554002
this

>>82553781
>>82553632
Alien has no theme, and no rape or sexual perverted monsters or falic monsters isn't a movie theme, but it's certainly a theme for the creature, but it has no pay off or says anything.

The theme of aliens is clearly about conquering your fear and you might say that's too simple or stupid, it worked for jaws, one of the greatest monster movies of all time.

Ripleys character goes through an arc of first not wanting to ever see another alien again too risking her life to try and save newt who she sees as sort of her daughter, so yea there is a reason they bring in her have a daughter and her caring about her, it's not for no reason.

The daughter/mother hood aspect works as a catalyst to get Ripley to go after her and save her, even though we know Ripley is scared and just wants to leave the planet. Her having had a daughter and wanting to save newt helps her over come her fear of the aliens.

Even the side characters like Bill Paxton's charcater is an excellent use of mirroring in Ripleys character in that the whole time he's complaining and saying "game over man" and being a pussy but it makes it that much more effective when he makes the ultimate sacrifice.

A brilliant detail of the Queen alien is that the Queen is a perverted mirroring of ripleys character. Think of the time before aliens and you had no idea there ever was a queen, and you are trying to come with what Ripley faces when going down to save newt, it could have been anything, an even bigger regular alien, a bunch of aliens, etc. but no it was a queen, why? Because it mirrors them both as mothers trying to save their child or children.

Aliens is great because the theme works its way down to the even the characters. Alien is great visually with atmosphere and is very interesting, but that's all it is is interesting.

Theme is the most important part of the movie becuase theme is the reason why it's story is getting told

>>82554002
This, plus its incredibly deluded fanbase.

>>82553631
it was the same fucking plot in each film, thats the point you retarded fuck. ones cheesy action, the other one isnt. im sure retarded fucks such as yourself are compelled by characters such as a lesbian mexican marine, but it isnt anything but a stereotype burrito

>>82554076
Cameron pulling shit out of his ass is not a theme. Alien is B horror movie (basically Jaws in space, but with depth) that was done so well it turned into a masterpiece. Aliens is overrated crap that just won't go away.

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This is the most "but both are great" comparison ever. There's just so much to love about both of them

>>82554184
Jaws caused people to stop going to the beach for fear of sharks, it literally had an effect on people. Plus has a character arc just like alien, in fact the themes are the exact same.

You can't say anything like this about alien. It was pure shock value and atmosphere, they hired a very creative artist to design their monster and a very well known sci fi artist sad mead to design the interior of the human ship. It has a lot of cool things about it but a a hand full of pearls does not make a necklace.

Aliens has a central theme that governs everything the movie does and brings it together to one solid peice. The idea of conquering your fears, the marines were cocky and fearless and ended up all dying not only plays into the theme of the importance of conquering fear but also gives a nice juxtaposition to the fact that Ripley knows exactly what waiting for them on the planet and why we feel the fear with and through her.

>>82554316
To add to the thought of aliens being a solid movie with a central theme.

Again alien is just a collection of very cool ideas but no theme or backbone that ties it all together. There's an entire scene of an android ash character that comes out as evil and starts killing the crew to save the alien. That could have been its own movie at that point and how exactly does he play into the whole theme of rape or sexual perversion. Again a bunch of cool ideas and imagery mashed together but nothing that centralizes it.

>>82554076
Alien has quite a few themes. How people are expandable to a large faceless company, how technology is not just a benefit but also a danger, various sexual subthemes and of course how a very ordinary person rises up to the occasion and survives by being smart, not testosteron laden gun-and screaming. All of this is going on quietly in heavy contrast to aliens where every character immediately utters some phrase so we get it. Sure, ripley has to save Newt, but to me thats not an arc. She cares about her right away and sticks with it to the end. And besides, the mother thing is something that is thoroughly explored already. Women in Hollywood are either mothers, hotties or butch (men with tits). But the ripley of the first movie was just a normal person in dire circumstances who wanted to live. Thats highly unusual and interesting. And come on, Bill Paxton is a joke in that movie, real people dont act like that. He mirrors being a clown. Or take that company guy. In the first one, the company was represented by ash, a very sinister guy with as it turns out, a motivation. In the second its Burke, a weasel whos only job is to make life for the characters miserable. He doesnt have any motivation besides being an asshole.

>>82554316
>>82554399
You really like to repeat yourself a lot. But saying things over and over again doesn't make them true. Asspulls and bad writing are not themes, period.

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>Ridley Scott got 5 Alien movies planned

If you think he won't get all territorial and make everything after Alien non-canon, you're in for a surprise.

Prometheus > Alien > 3 > Aliens > Resurrection

>>82554399
Yeah but thats exactly it. Alien feels real, there is a lot going on besides the main plot. Aliens in the end is just "man vs. monster". And conquering your fear isnt all that interesting. What action movie doesnt have people in danger of dying? Its pretty ordinary stuff. Alien has a story and uses it to convey various subthemes. And by the way, ash plays very well into the sexual theme. Remember how of all weapons he takes a porn magazin and tries to shove it down ripleys throat (mouth-rape, so to say)?

>>82554076
The mommy theme was very ham handed. And Bill Paxton's character alone makes Aliens a lesser quality film. I like Aliens but it's just a feel good action flick with some really good special effects.

Cameron has never made a good movie and he has ruined every franchise he has been insrted into. He did the same thing with Terminator. Took a horrifying thriller and turned it into a big dumb action movie.

>>82554399
The theme of Alien was isolation and fear.

>>82554533
He did direct the first one too though. I think after T1 he just gave up on storytelling.

>>82554422
Yes but those themes have no pay off for the movie, in fact they aren't even themes in a storytelling sense but more as a back drop for the story.

Tell me how does an evil faceless company as "theme" play into Ripley going back after cat and running into the escape ship? Nothing, the third act of alien drops every theme you brought up and is a basic survival horror flick in the third act.

In aliens the idea of conquering fear is set up as soon as we see nightmares, to her going after newt to even the last lines of the movie

Paraphrasing but It was something like newt saying "do you think we can dream again?"

Ripley replies "I think we can"

Ashes character is interesting but what does him and evil corporations as a theme have anything to do with the theme of the monster? The two ideas clash enough that they could both work as their own movie.

>>82554508
What you don't understand is that Ripley is the only character in that story who doesn't want to be their, the aliens is her personal fear.

It's no different than Indiana jones fear of snakes, if the rota never set up that indie was afraid of snakes the scene where he has to confront them doesn't have as much impact, but it does because we know it's HIS fear.

In aliens the same thing. Yea anybody could be afraid of an alien but Ripley was especially afraid and it makes her sacrifice and story all the more powerful. A "lot turn your brain off" movies you think this movie compares to don't even know to do this.

>>82553918
This is not a "Post aliens you could beat in a fight" thread.

>>82554642
Not every theme has to culminate in some big finale where everything gets solved. Themes can work parallel to the story to make it more interesting. Kind of like Blade Runner has eyes has a theme without Deckard finally defeating a big eye monster at the end. Ripley tries to survive and her survival story is used to tell various other interesting themes. Aliens also drops Burke at some point and there is no more evil company. Like I said, the whole ripley is a good mama thing is set up right away and doesnt get any more interesting. There is no depth or exploration to this. So ripley is a mom. got it. Why set up an entire lengthy confrontation with the queen for something that isnt very interesting anyway? Why not have ripley save Newt and then get to something we havent seen before.
The corporation is the only reason they pick up the alien in the first place and if you look closely you can even see how Ash has a personal admiration for the alien. He loves how perfect it is and admires it, therefore he tries to make sure it survives. Its pretty interesting, coming off of Star Wars where robots are nice and funny and space is bright and colorful. Alien is the polar opposite of this. Robots and technology are mean and soulless and space is deadly for the ordinary man. This is another interesting subtheme by the way. The real bad guy in this film is the company, not the alien, who also just wants to survive. Not in Aliens though. Here technology and robots are good again. Boring if you ask me

>>82554713
Thats a good example. Indie is scared of snakes and its used just a couple of times as a joke. But there never would be an entire movie of Indiana Jones battling his fear and defeating the Snake queen. Why not? Because its not interesting. People in movies conquer their fear all the time. It doesnt make for a good theme if theres nothing else. And really, ripley isnt all that important anyway. Alien wasnt about ripley, she was just an ordinary person, not the focus point. which left room for more interesting themes. Aliens doesnt.

>>82552654
this. people forget alien is a flawed movie.

>>82554936
Than frankly you don't understand what a theme is in story. A theme is the reason you tell the story. The most basic you can get with story to theme are easops fables, where the whole reason to tell the story is to teach a lesson, not through preaching or big ideas but through example through catharsis.

A theme in story isn't just some subject that's referenced a few times in the story, the theme is the reason for telling the story.

When a movie has a central theme through which all parts are working together to relate that theme it makes the story all that much more stronger, because the theme and story are one.

The way you are decribing theme doesn't make the story stronger it makes it weaker if used with out having a payoff or culmination because it shows the writer has nothing to say about these themes and is merely using them as a crutch, they get even weaker the more you have that have don't really have anything to do with each other. It muddies the story, because no one really knows what it's about.

Great stories are usually about one thing and it does everything in its devices to give the impact of that one thing.

Also in aliens, mother hood isn't a theme of the movie but a motif and a catalyst to ripleys act of bravery.

>>82555134
I think you dont understand what a theme is. A story can have many different themes, and most stories actually do. Allmost all great works of literature or movies have various themes throughout their story and obviously not all of them get a big culmination or cathartic moment. I already mentioned Blade Runner, but you can also look at the bible, kafkas books or whatever. Take kafkas process. Its a story about a guy who gets charged with a crime and then executed bascially. But whilst we are told that, the stories touches various subthemes like being part of an absurd world, authocratic systems, religion, loneliness etc. All that matters because it a) helps to make you feel a certain way b) helps to create a world and c) gives you something to explore and think about. Alien does it too. There is the corporation vs. little working man subtheme that works in the background and helps to create a feeling of dread and tells us something about the world the story takes place. Which is interesting. So you see the writers do have a lot to say ( technology and big corporations can be heartless machines, we are heading to a horrible future etc.) without any big culmination. The writers trust you to think about this stuff for yourself. But aliens, like many hollywood movies doesnt. The throw everything right in your face so you dont miss it which is in the end pretty boring and artificial.

>>82551719
James Cameron created the aliens franchise.
Before him there was a only a standalone horror movie.

>>82555459
Just had to reiterate the OP with your own words, huh?

>>82555323
Just because a story features a subject, doesn't make it a theme. Also a story can have sub themes but the more they relate to the stories central theme the stronger it makes the story.

Having eclectic random themes thrown in a story with no set up or pay off means the story isn't about anything in particular. It's like a guy rambling and when you stop to ask him what he's talking about and he gives you a gaint list of unrelated subjects he would sound like a lunatic compare to someone has a point to what they say and say it at the beginning so you know what they are talking about.

Aliens doesn't just throw shit in your face and leave everything out in the open, it gives you just enough information as a set up for a later pay off.

Alien can be described as a series of set ups with no central pay off. They set up ash as the icon for evil big corps but he just turns into a monster they kill, same thing with the monster, it's just another thing to avoid or kill.

Yes alien might tell us that big corporations are evil or what ever but that isn't a very powerful theme because it has nothing to do with our human condition or emotion.

Every one has fears those and everyone has a problem with overcoming them. Confronting fear is a theme that works on a much more primal deep scale to us as humans.

>>82551719
How about this,

All of the Alien franchise is shit, Alien is just fine at best

>>82552830
I think just reading your posts is making me autistic by proxy

>>82555323
Also to add there is a flaw with the evil corporation theme in alien.

If big evil corps are bad why was Ripleys character in the right for acting to code in line with the big evil corporation when the infected character was trying to get on the ship.

You say big evil corps are cold and evil, and what Ripley was doing by sticking to the regulations of the company was a cold act of disregarding his life. She was ready to just leave him there to die.

This would have saved the entire crew had they went with her desicion, none of what transpired would have happened.

It's doesn't line up with what the writer is trying to say as the theme.

>>82555545
The themes of Alien arent random at all. Like i already explained. The corporation, the dystopian futuere, Ash, the sexualization are all part of the alien, its reason for being on the ship and its survival. Its not random at all. Yeah they kill Ash and learn about why the Alien is there. That is actually a big payoff because we learn about the alien. The idea of a big controlling cold hearted corporation is extremely powerful because it is a very real and realistic threat. Its also interesting because it rarely gets explored in an interesting way in movies. Fear of evil monsters is something that we have in every zombie movie.

To your second point: Ripley tried to follow standard regulations for all space flight. Ash, as the guy who represents the company undermined this, its probably why he was send. Obviously the crew would be suspicious if the company said "yeah just let aliens onboard from now on". The fact that ripley does the cold thing is actually interesting because it gives her character some depth. You see, real people have good and bad sides. Ripley in Alien is at first very stiff and cold, the others dont seem to like her. But when the situation demands it she rises up and does the right thing. In aliens the characters are eighter good or bad, either cowards or brave heroes like hicks. In Alien they all have different layers. Even parker who comes off as a tough guy shows some fear and stupidity. In Aliens everyone is just a cliche

>>82555979
None of what you said in the first paragraph have any powerful connection to each other. You want to look at a better story with evil corps as its theme, look at robocop.

The whole movie is about an evil corporation, but it has some sub themes of over violence. But how are all these connected you might say. Well the evil corporations are rich and naturally eliminate the middle class leaving the city to be a huge ghetto riddled with criminals, the over violence also says something about televeison being to violent which are ran by corporations. But as you start connecting these themes together you realize an even bigger theme arises from all these which is the value of human life and humanity. The big corps do not value human life or humanity and I their presence creates a city filled with criminals who do just the same.

The main characters humanity was devalued when the criminals ripped him apart and then even more so when the big corps put him back together as something less human. But what made the story even stronger was the fact that even though everything robocop went through, he still was able to keep his humanity.

So when he fights up the building of the evil Corp at the end it makes the story that much better that going against the "man" but in the form of a creation of them but the humanity in control.

The thing about theme is that's it's not just what the story is about its also who the character is. The theme of aliens is Conquering fear and naturally the main character is someone who is afraid and conquers that fear. In robot cop the value of humanity is the theme and naturally the the main character is the personification of humanity prevailing through something created from devaluing humanity.

In these stories theme is everything, and everything serves to help that theme.

>>82556202
Yeah and thats what makes it mundane and to me uninteresting. A story thats more than just a story but something thats touches on various topics make for far more interesting viewing because theres more to discover. Fear of monsters is something very much uninteresting to me. In narrowing down the focus aliens becomes one of a variety of movies. I like my movies more interesting than that, therefore my favorite one is actually Blade Runner, a movie with a lot more subthemes. Robocop to me is even more boring and predictable in its storytelling than aliens is. But hey, to each their own.

>>82555979
To your second point I see now that Ripley has a character arc in first being cold and then later through baptism by fire eventually finds her humanity busy doing the right thing.

But the charcaters aren't simple in aliens either. Ripley goes through a change of fearing the aliens and then conquering that fear and this arc is also mirrored through bill Paxton's character, who also doesn't want to be there and is afraid but ultimately "saves his soul" by sacrificing himself.

Hopefully you can see that character arcs play through in both movies. Aliens has more charcaters but just becuase it has more characters doesn't mean they all have to have depth or arcs, in most movies only a select few characters go through character arcs, while others act as mirror characters showing what a character would be like if they maintain their course of action. For instance the military in aliens show us a contrast to Ripley being afraid and most of them die becuase they didn't know the value of being afraid to conquer said fear

>>82553935
Pretty much true. I always felt kinda bothered by the Ripley is now mommy thing, but I didn't have a way to express it.
Still a good movie though.

>>82556350
Fear of monsters isn't the theme though, it's about conquering fears. Wether you find it uninteresting is irelevant because it's an emotion you feel through catharsis. Not some interesting topic up you read about.

Yes I would a agree that alien is more interesting, because it showcases ideas, but that's all it does, but that doesn't make it deep for being a host of ideas.

>>82551719
I like to think that Aliens is a great movie, but a poor sequel to Alien. The difference in genre, tone and themes is so vast that you could have easily had two different franchises.

Alien 3 is Alien's true successor but it failed to capture the same lightning in a bottle. Ironically, Alien Isolation is the better sequel, despite being a video game.

>>82556506
>Alien Isolation is the better sequel
It honestly is.

>>82553632
>At the exact same time, a colony who was sent to the previous planet, for no reason, suddenly stops responding back. This didn't happen in the 57 years of our beloved protagonists sleeping, but at the exact same time she was found

Are you retarded or just pretending?

WJ send those colonists to the location Ripley told them about. It was fucking obvious even without director's cut version. And there were months between Ripley getting found and planet going silent.

>>82551719
>James Cameron killed the Alien Franchise

Except Prometheus was many times worse.

>>82556368
Eh, I think the soldiers are just cannon fodder, not characters. Like I said, they dont behave like real human beings. And Hudson doesnt really sacrifice himself but just gets killed like the rest. Which is normally fine for an action movie, because action movies dont get into characters as much as horror movies. But it just takes the entire interesting idea of the first movie and shoves it into a "fuck yeah marines hurray" kind of movie, throwing all subtelty over board. There is no depth in aliens, sorry, its just a bunch of dimension-free soldiers vs. zombies in the end.

Fear is an emotion felt through catharsis? That doesnt make any sense. Fear is an emotion, and they had plenty of that and conquering it in the first film. Like when the captain gets into the airduct, or when they try to flush out the alien. Its just that there was so much more than that.

ITT: blogs

>>82556940
Crawl back to your capeshit threads if you feel intimidated by posts that exceed three sentences.

Good thread.
I watched Alien and Aliens for the first time a couple of years ago one after the other and I still can't comprehend how anybody could think Aliens is a better movie.

>>82554517
>And Bill Paxton's character alone makes Aliens a lesser quality film.
>goofy meathead who thinks he is the hot shit but is bullied by his squadmates
>slowly falls to pieces and rises back up before losing it again and going down.

Vasquez was the better character tbph.

>>82553213
>What were the sentry guns

>>82557954
>sentry guns are marines.
also the aliens happily bleed those guns dry before flanking the command center

>>82556683
brrrrrrrrrrrt in Aliens they say that the terraforming has been going on for 20 years

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>Be Ridley Scott
>Never cared about Alien after the first one
>79 years old
>See that young Neill who wants to make a sequel to Aliens, literally the movie that the fans always wanted
>Lock the series to make shitty movies for money
Kill me please.

>>82558368
wait, district 9 guy wanted to make an alien movie?
proofs?

>>82551719
Cameroon is the reason it even became a franchisee.

>>82557954
>what were the sentry guns

Ineffective.

Judging from the size of the readings on the motion scanners when ops gets invaded, the vast majority of the aliens had survived.

>>82558384
http://www.scified.com/blog/alien5

>>82558090

They'd been there 20 years but hadn't investigated the derelict ship until Burke got the exactly coordinates from Ripley.

>>82558476
thanks.

>>82558472
this. The aliens are intelligent as fuck.

>>82557521
Probably nostalgia. I watched aliens when i was like 14 and loved it. I rewatched it last years and finally realised how bad it really is.

>>82552280
he's only made 3 ok/good movies in his entire carreer
god... more like average

>>82559892

fuck you, T1, T2, True Lies were kino. probably others that i dont care about

yea tianitc watever

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Someone answer me this~

How popular were mecha suits before 1986? This seems to be a popular jab.

Before you say Robocop, that came out in 1987.

if the alien in Alien was so perfect how come it just sat and watched Ripley changing into a space suit and open the shuttle doors to kill it?

>>82560241
Voltron, underaged nigga.

>>82552527
>an infestation of Earth. Go full fucking Zerg, destruction of the planet, and people fighting to survive
The comics have a story like that.

>>82558521
I'm sorry but this makes zero sense
>have colony on said planet
>need to retrieve alien
>come up with super convoluted plan with completely unrelated ship (Nostromo)

I always though years passed

Look at all these assblasted Ridleyfags trying to distract from the fact that their favorite Britbong commercial director hasn't made a good movie since the days people thought George W would be a good president, and that he'll probably continue to run the franchise into the ground with his dumbshit ideas.

>HURR David created the xenomorphs you guys

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>>82553259
>cute when she was young
>fucking hot when she got old
How
w2c siggy gf?

>>82551719
Aliens is a good movie, but a shit Alien movie.
In fact, Cameron was developing a vietnam in space property way before the Alien franchise landed in his lap and he applied it.
Now, if only Ridley Scott got to make Prometheus/Alien: Covenant on the heals of Blade Runner instead of when he was old and senile, with H. R. Giger to help out....

>>82552612
>but the bible was passed around a lot in Hollywood and gave everyone ideas for a lot of sci fi visuals at the time

That's Jodorowsky talking shit as usual, he's a habitual liar, once Dune fell apart the people working on it went onto other projects like Star Wars and Alien ofcourse there's going to be similarities when you have same artists working on them

>>82558368
District 9 was a fluke, and Blomkamp is a hack
Elysium and Chappie were objectively garbage films

>>82551856
My headcannon is that the Xeno in the first movie was an immature queen, hence why it was much more intelligent

>>82551719
>"The perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility"

As a biologist, this statement always triggered me

>>82560867
Neat. I didn't know there were comics.

>>82561525
Explain.

>>82551719
>how come in the first alien movie the alien was so successful killing a small crew of unarmed civilians
>and in the second alien movie the aliens had so much difficulty killing an entire platoon of colonial marines specifically trained for this exact kind of situation?
Why are Alien1fags so fucking retarded?

>>82553026
except that is canonically backwards

the ones in aliens were the "warrior" class

thats why they charged in like dipshits. the drones were the more methodical and stealthy ones because they could be killed easier.

in all likelyhood drones have to be more intelligent than warriors if they want to live.

>>82560241
It had been a thing in anime for years, also Starship Troopers

>>82561603
A tldr explanation is that there can't be a perfect organism for all environments because all environments are different. An organism specializing in one environment will be unsuitable in another environment.

For example sharks are a "perfect organism" in the ocean, but if you put a shark in the middle of the Savannah, he won't fly so good.

Same thing if you put a lion in the middle of the ocean.

An organism can be generalized but not specialized or specialized but not generalized.

>>82561726
I see what you mean, but wasn't the alien perfectly suited for all environments? There are scenes where it is in various environments, even one where it was swimming with skill underwater.

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>>82552280
>Aliens > Alien
Aliens > Alien 3 > Alien

>>82561726
thats the thing though it can survive in all environments

it was floating around in fucking outer space still active and moving around

>>82561726
But isn't that what makes the alien so perfect? Because it can adapt? Facehug a shark, rule the ocean. Facehug a lion, rule the savannah.

>>82561757
>>82561804
>>82561813

Another thing is that it's actually disadvantageous if a predator is too effective because if it kills all it's prey to fast, it'll starve.

But I guess that doesn't matter if the Xenos were designed as Bio-weapons and not made for long term survival as a species

>>82561931
Do aliens even need food?

>>82554422
The major theme was "rules are there for a reason."

If they listened to Ripley before basically infecting the ship by bringing the guys back on board too soon, they would have been fine.. Well, the people on the ship would have been fine. Maybe.

>>82561931
they really arent, theyre more like ants. everything for colony and queen

they also dont eat people but are apparently powered by bio-electric chemical reactions in their blood or some bullshit.

that last bit probably came from a really crappy comic or something

>>82561931
Do they aliens even eat biological lifeforms, I thought they were just used for breeding. How does consuming flesh produce silicone cells?

>>82562026
that is not a "major" theme

it literally covers one moment in the movie and then thats about it. Ellen doesnt even say "OH WHY DIDNT YOU LISTEN TO ME?" after that thing pops out of his chest. That whole bit is just to establish that Ripley is the person on the crew with the most common sense

>>82562045
>>82562039
>>82562006
>>82561931

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNH_FWcCgEs

>>82562088
*sigh*

I was making that post in a humorous manner, my autistically inclined friend.

>in a world where prometheus didn't happen, we are all awaiting the premiere of the new big budget, but character driven, Alien&Predators VS The Thing&The Blob movie made by Nicolas Winding Refn

>>82562164
well i might be autistic but youre not funny

>>82562315
You are autistic. Humorous doesn't mean le funny. It means lightly amusing.

>>82562402
>humorous doesnt mean funny

ok ill make that stretch

it still was a piss poor attempt at humor

>>82552050
i'd cucumber her sandwich if you know what i mean

>>82562987
im mad at myself for laughing at this

>>82551719
point out 1 way in which the xenomorphs from aliens were stupider than the xenomorph from alien.

in Alien the xenomorph was fighting 5 people with no combat training. They were basically space truckers and all they had were a couple of improvised, rickety, unreliable flame throwers and a really shitty, low resolution sonar.

In Aliens they were up against highly trained marines with state of the art military technology and radars that actually showed how far away they were.
Of course the xenomorphs were going to get shot more.

This is the most ill thought out and dumb complaint about Aliens

>"Awwww how come the xenomorphs aren't an insurmountable threat now that they're facing heavily armed marines?? thanks a lot Cameron!"

>>82551719

t. faggot

>>82551719
Only the movies directed by Scott are canon.

>>82563347
the turret scene

they literally just keep charging an automatic turret blasting then to pieces. Cameron originally wanted to show all the xenos getting shot to absolute shit by the turret but could do it because he only had 6 suits for the whole movie so they just show the ammo getting depleted with a few spurts of acid blood

but the xenos in aliens waste at least half a dozen of themselves trying to get past a turret rather than find another way around which is what they eventually do anyway

otherwise id agree, of course some xenos are going to get killed vs marines as opposed to space truckers.

>>82551719

>up against a brood of completely hostile aliens that an unprotected human is completely defenseless against
>not getting to a mechsuit and fighting to the death

cowards like you will be the first to go in the first alien invasion

>>82561931
weasels evolved to have the behaviour where when they are hunting , they will kill anything they can that moves until there is nothing left to kill.

If a weasel gets into a hen pen for example it will kill every single hen in a frenzy.

>>82561525
as a biologist, maybe you should learn a little bit about weasels.

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>>82562987
I'm more of a "tail her pup" kinda guy

>>82563507
I remember it being implied that the ammo was being depleted continuously because after a few of them got shot to bits, the rest of them worked out they could bait it to fire, say by waving something from around the corner.

>>82556870
Most of the marines dies as soon as they get there, it's not marines vs aliens movie. They are used as a device to show that not being afraid will get you killed which is different that actually being afraid and conquering that fear. Which goes in hand with the movies theme.

You completely ignore Ripleys character arc when you say aliens has no depth.

Do you not know what catharsis is? I thought aliens was about big evil corporations. Ripley "conquers" her fear but they don't set the aliens up as a personal fear in alien like they did in aliens.

In aliens her personal hell is the aliens, we see this through her nightmares. The hell imagery is even show when she goes to confront the queen. She is constantly going down and down and as she goes down there is fire and smoke.

>>82563686
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQDy-5IQvuU

nope they were just a charging away at it

Ripley ruined the franchise, they turned her into Rambo

>>82552612
>The aesthetic to alien and a lot of big sci fi at the time, like blade runner and some of Star Wars was taken from Jodorowskys dune bible

Not true at all, that aesthetic exist with or without Jodorowsky: people like O´bannon, Moebius or Giger was bring to Dune production for their vision and habilities as storytellers/artists. Eventually they all did the first Alien but their artistic visions belong to themselves, not Jodorowsky

>>82563454
>>82563454
>Only the movies directed by Scott are canon.

what a shitty canon then... Ridley Scott cant understand what make the first alien a classic. The first Alien is like a H.P. Lovecraft story in space, from the premise to the whole art direction. It dont explain the mistery of the ancient, just give you a glimpse of the unknown to make you wonder about origin of the horror.

Prometheus tries too hard to be like an Arthur C. Clarke story. Pretty much every event is lifted from the original scrip for Alien (the head they bring to the ship, the vessels, the goo, the alien pyramid/dome, the statues, etc). They cut all that in the 70´s not only because it was bad and too hippie, but also because it was redundant and distract from the main story (also, budget)

Prometheus is a refurbished script, with some good ideas, but a lot of bad ideas. Why Scott bring a hack like Lindelof to write a script? no clue. Prometheus is like Lost, a good premise with a bad, really bad development.

>>82552050

W2c flight suit?

>>82564222
>Prometheus is like Lost, a good premise with a bad, really bad development.

this is why i dream and pray for Covenant. but youre right Scott is trying to peel a mystery that either shouldnt be peeled or have something insane under it but he doesnt.

>>82553907

Of course it's a fucking tripfag.

>>82553907

Aliens is maybe my favorite movie ever, but aged worst than Alien. Maybe the scale was too big for the budget, but watch both in Bluray and you will realize wich one haves better photography and pace.

>>82551719

Not really, Alien is still about humans against an ancient sleeping evil. Even if we know they behave like a hive, cameron is still clever enough to not tell too much. He is usually very expositive in his other film, but here he explain even less than the original alien besides the whole related narrative wich is there justo to mirror the whole subtext of Ripley and her lost motherood.

Is Scott with Prometheus who fuck the whole alien universe explaying too much about everything related to the space jockey, xenos, etc.

Drones are smarter while warriors are just hyped up steroid monkeys whose only purpouse is to murder anything that threatens the hive

>>82556683
>>82558090
What a coincidence

>>82558396
WTF I hate Cameron even more now

>>82558368
This is what baffles me. The planned Alien 5 might've actually been worthwhile. It may have also been crap, but it would at least have been a thing in its own right. Covenant and to a lesser extent Prometheus are just the latest in the long line of 'make the old thing again but different' that's plaguing Hollywood.

I don't blame Cameron since they immediately tried to go back to a more Alien style with Alien 3 and it was a stinker

>>82567022
Aliens would've been a terrible movie if it was just 'Alien but again'. He took the obvious plot hook of 'that was just one alien and there was a ship full of eggs' and ran with it. Making a sequel that's just trying to be the original again is a recipe for disaster most of the time.

>>82552739
>>82552830
>>82554076
>>82554316
>>82554642
>>82555134
>>82555545
>>82555657
>reddit spacing

>>82556683
>as the dumb colonists never got exploring past the first mile radius until right now
>the trip somehow magically takes 17 days

>>82551719
xeno worshippers are autistic fags and this line:
>"The perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility"
is fucking stupid

Alien
>slow build up, character driven movie, true horror, don't just show the monster, give it some time
Aliens
>HEEEY HOW ABOUT SOME EXPLOSIONS! WHO THE FUCK NEEDS A SCRIPT, JUST SAY A CHEESY ONE LINER EVERYTIME YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH GET AWAY YOU BITCH LOL NUKE THEM FROM ORBIT MOSTLY LMAO OK TIME FOR SOME COOL ASS FLAMETHROWERS

>>82551719
Stupid contrarians, in the first movie we rarely see the Alien and his costume his shit, be honest.
It's a fucking monster movie, stop with your 2deep intellectual complaining.

>that autisimo that attacks me every time i say cameron ruined alien

>>82552042
True, but the Marine's weaapons still cut down tons of Xenos before the Xenos got them. The scene that really irks me is when Vasquez of Hudson literally just sticks a shotgun in a Xeno's mouth and blows its head apart, and of course without getting affected by the acidid blood that should be flying everywhere at that point.

Aliens literally turned the Xenos into a Zerg rush-tier video game mook, You can kill dozens of them, but they;l overwhelm you eventually with superior numbers.

I don't know about you other anons, but that just doesn't sound scary to me. Literally the same tactic the Soviets used against Germany at Stalingrad.

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Aliens is such fucking trash, it's laughable.
Only manchildren and sub 100 iq tards enjoy it.

>>82567424
>we rarely see the Alien
Not a bad thing. The costume is shit in some scenes, not all of them, but that really isn't an issue.

>>82551719
Childhood is thinking Aliens is best
Teenagehood is thinking Alien is better
Adulthood is realising Alien3 is best

>>82560867
>>82561576

The comics suck. Don't waste your time.

>>82567512
Alien 3 is not as bad as some people make it out to be (mostly retarrds wanting Aliens 2), but it was so troubled in its production, and everything else, really that it shows. It's a flawed hidden gem, but in no way in hell was it better than the original.

>>82567480
I watch Alien for the creatures, I don't gives a shit about muh plot and characters.
the plot is just an excuse to see disgusting creatures and some new variations about murdering people.

>>82567580
>how a child watches movies
lol

>>82567580
You should stick to AvP then.

>>82567580
t. pleb who completely missed the point of Alien

I bet you also think Friday the 13th is better than Halloween because "MUH GORE!"

>>82560965
There wasn't colony on the planet in Alien.
Are you fucking retarded.

>>82567577
I actually agree on principle but it does the dark atmosphere better, has (in the non-cgi scenes) the better looking-alium (atmittedly hilariously bad in the cgi scenes) and - despite the tremendous production fuck-ups - feels like a more fitting ending for an alien movie.
Also it has some of the worlds most amazing actors.
Watched them all back to back in anticipation of covenant and i can't help but enjoy it more.

>>82567604
better than being a bittered contrarian who want to projecting on some blockbuster.
goddamn even prometheus was good concerning the artistic part, we literally don't care about the plot or character's shitty behavior, we are here too seen HR Giger's aesthetic and cool creatures killing people, who the fuck cares about their drama stories?

the only thing surprising on the first alien is discovering that asshole of android inside the crew, we watch alien for this: cool creatures who kills people, disgusting horrific atmosphere, and some conspiracy plots about evil androids traitors.
we don't care of the rest, maybe except Ripley because she's cool.
>>82567614
No AvP sucks, crossovers between those two franchises are autistic.

>>82567694
No asshole, I was talking about the Alien license only, focused on the creature, i'm not especially a fan of gore, It's basically seeing those creatures doing something.

what was the point mister 2deep contrarian? some sexual metaphore n sheit for your art faculty?

>>82567756
>can barely speak english
>thinks no one watches movies for the plot
>expects me to take him seriously
kek

>>82551719
Many people would argue that bugs are a perfect organism

However, the Xenomorph being a perfect organism? Dont make me laugh

>>82567756
>>82567827
>I don't gives a shit about muh plot and characters.

>>82567705
There was a colony in Aliens and that is what the discussion is about, what are you talking about?

>>82567838
I don't care about your lame saxonic language who can't even be simply phonetic for spelling.
>>82567864
Okay so tell me, why do you watch the first Alien? not for the creature of course no, for the token nigger? for the mustache guy? for your 2deep interpretation about spermatozoids entering in the derelict like a human vagina? for the android starting to fugg ripley with a book?

let's be honest, you watch it for the creature too, it's literally the fucking title of the movie.

>Childhood idolising Aliens
>Adulthood realising Alien made more sense

>>82567862
It was in Alien

>>82568003
>immigrant shit skin
>retarded
everytime lel

>>82552830
god damn you're stupid

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>>82568084
>LOOK AT ME! I BELIEVE EVERYONES IS AMERICAN ON THIS CHINESE CARTOON BOARD!! EVERYONS WHO COMMUNICATE WITH ME ON MY BARBARIAN LANGUAGE IS OBVIOUSLY A BEANER BECAUSE MY BURGER BRAIN CAN'T STOP TO BE SELF-CENTERED!

>>82567756
>we watch alien for this: cool creatures who kills people, disgusting horrific atmosphere,
>we
>W E
>8
>I watch alien for this: cool creatures who kills people, disgusting horrific atmosphere,
FIFY

>>82567827
What you missed is the original Alien isn't "just an excuse to see disgusting creatures and some new variations about murdering people." It's an atmospheric horror film that cares more about suspense than gore and what makes it so suspenseful is the xenomorph is in the shadows waiting to meticulously strike. The atmosphere would be ruined if it popped up every few minutes. Plus it would look ridiculous, the costume only looked good from certain angles with certain lighting.

>>82568193
>barbarian language
>too complex for him to learn
lel calm down Rohinder Radamavartha

>>82568003
I watch Alien for the plot, characters, underlying subtexts and the atmosphere.

>>82560241
I just want to say this image is factually incorrect. Robocop could not defeat a Xeno.

>>82568215
I agree, but it's literally the same thing on every movies, I never wanted a movie with murders every minutes, also what you describe happened on Aliens too, just with more guns, but it seems logical because the aliens in this case are not just one but various, the contrarians here are just tryhard to pretend they are actions everytimes and baiting the ending of the movie.

>>82568226
I just don't care about your meme grammar john ramirez, you understand what I said anyway :^)

>>82567576

Dark Horse Alien comics are exceptionally good, especially "Citadel", so unless you mean something else you are mistaken

>>82568328
>i'm just retarded because i don't care
lol
great analysis of the film btw.
SPOT on!
Especially the part about contrarians and how they try hard to actions everytimes and baiting.
Superb!

>>82568394
your passive-agressivity is weak.

>>82568465
not as weak as your english, pajeet.

>>82567967
Holy fuck are you stupid

Alien is different from Aliens
in Alien there was no colony
in AlienS there is a colony

50 some odd years happen between the two

>>82569143
No one is arguing otherwise, you mentally impaired fuck.

>>82567448
Do you type everything that goes on in your head?
Am I going to see you post in /ck/ tomorrow asking what you're going to have for breakfast?

Also
>attacks me
Get some thick skin my boyo.