Underrated GOAT

its obviously better than whatever garbage from disney

>>82281097
There isn't that much Hate for ROTS.

By that point the haters didn't care and most Normie adults just didn't bother to go see it.

Nothing feels real when it looks like a video game at all times

I'm not a shit-taste redditard that hates the prequels and loves the originals, but Ep III does have some glaring issues, despite the positives you pointed out.

Some of the dialogue, Anakin's acting and Anakin's character development are just shitty. You could call the first too minor or moderate issues, but the third is a killer--the entire series is about Anakin/Vader, so it's a big problem that the transformation FROM Anakin to Vader is clunky and awkward.

Still, like you say, Ep III has a bunch of good stuff going on.

>>82281336
>Anakin's character development are just shitty
I disagree, only because, unlike Episode II, he actually showed flaws and weaknesses behind the public's eye, who see and regard Anakin as a hero.

Because of Padme's pending death following child birth, it puts Anakin in a bind, because we know, thanks to Episode II, that he doesn't want to loose another love on. And so when Sidious gives him the whole Plagueis story, which, by itself, is really well written, it drags Anakin in and thus he becomes Vader.

It's pretty good development, despite some dialogue and acting issues.

>>82281422
Honestly, the sketchy dialogue and acting probably make the character arc seem worse than it is, but Anakin's decision to cut off Windu's hand and kill the children for example, didn't feel "authentic." I didn't "buy" it in other words.

But maybe a better actor with better dialogue would have sold it better. idk

>>82281097
It's better than the other two prequels (phantom menace sucked, and attack of the clones was a generic summer blockbuster), and it's better than TFA

>>82281533
If Mace killed Sidious, then Anakin would have no way to save Padme from dying. The cutting of Mace's hand makes sense. It puts an end to Mace's aggression and denies any impalement from the blade.

>>82281533
Anakin's actor did pretty well when it came to being angry, but his lines are poorly scripted and sound like something an angsty emo teen would write on their tumblr blog

>>82281692
>but his lines are poorly scripted and sound like something an angsty emo teen would write on their tumblr blog
But that's the shortcomings of Lucas and not exactly Hayden, who can act. If you like an angry, struggling, angst filled Hayden, see Shattered Glass. It's well written, directed, and acted.

>>82281422
people should just ignore II and watch clone wars then III, really improves the arc.

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>>82281336
>it's shit taste to hate the prequels
Can't wait for this meme to die a horrible death.

>>82281816
eh, if you ignore Episode II, then you're missing his whole "I will learn to stop people from dying" - including his mother's death, which is a turning point in him. If there's one thing the CGI Clone Wars fucked up on, it's their decision to ignore Anakin's strong emotional impulses, which dominate his character since Episode I. Anakin is honestly no sane, noble hero. He's not Luke.

>>82281988
The show doesn't ignore that at all, anon. He spergs out about 4 times.

>>82281988
>Anakin is honestly no sane, noble hero. He's not Luke.
But according to Obi Wan in 4, he is the epitome of that. The Clone Wars tries to bride the gap between making him an idealistic hero, and a fringe, impulsive "I just need one push" powder keg.

>>82282096
But nothing compared to what he had done in Episode II and III - mass murders, rage filled tears, strong urgency to control or keep those he loves close to him. Anakin isn't someone who lets go easily too.

>>82282170
He was willing to straight up murder a Sepratist senator at one point. So that's something.

>>82281097
Its unironically one of my top 3 favorite star wars movie. If people call this movie trash, than disney wars might be on another level of abomination.

>>82282158
>He was the best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior.
Right, as the Chosen One, he showed great skill, but he was also a reckless implusive fuck, which was his shortcoming. When he learns that he could keep Padme from dying, he decides to go to the dark side and learn from Sidious. Luke, on the other hand, is the opposite, as demonstrated in Episode VI. Sidious couldn't sway him to his side because Luke is a true, noble hero, unlike Anakin.

>>82282290
>but he was also a reckless implusive fuck, which was his shortcoming
I was just saying that this was shoehorned in later, in complete contrast to what Anakin was rumored to be. Making him an impulsive fuckwit takes away from his great fall. The story of "the Dark Side can take the best of us", sort of thing that is undermined by the prequels.

>>82282200
But willing is different from actually doing

>>82282420
Well I mean, by the time the Clone Wars series rolls around, he already killed all those Sand People...so...

>>82282412
>Making him an impulsive fuckwit takes away from his great fall
I disagree because it was his impulsive traits that add up to his great fall. Without his impulsive traits and inability to let love ones go, he wouldn't have become Vader

>The story of "the Dark Side can take the best of us", sort of thing that is undermined by the prequels.
I don't know who said that quote or if you're just emphasizing, but the dark side doesn't take anything away - in this case Anakin elected to go to the dark side in order to learn the ability to keep love ones alive.

The story of Anakin's fall and redemption is the story of the Star Wars, both prequels and original.

>>82282412
But he was a what obiwan said,

-a good pilot
-a cunning warrior
-he let the dark side change him instead of doing whats right.

He only did what he did to keep padme from dying, which ironically he ended up doing exactly that. You also have to take into consideration that the council never trusted him and really, embarassed him by not making him master. Even worse considering the context that Anakin wanted to be master only to gain special sith knowledge, anything to help save padme. When he couldn't get it, he decided to turn to the only one who could help, sidious.

>>82282449
Yeah, but I mean that he didn't show any of that in the CGI Clone Wars. He was portrayed as a noble hero, akin to Luke, but had, as you said, edgy traits from time to time. I think the show tried to show that Anakin was "on a path leading to the dark side," but forgot Yoda's "anger leads to hate" line, which makes sense given Anakin's overall story arc in the prequels. He was always on a path because of his personality. I don't think he can choose when to become an edgy fuck and choose to become a brave, wise hero. Even when he's leading in battle, Anakin always had emotional tendencies, as seen in the opening battle of ROTS

>>82282508
>I don't know who said that quote or if you're just emphasizing, but the dark side doesn't take anything away - in this case Anakin elected to go to the dark side in order to learn the ability to keep love ones alive.
I was emphasizing and I would disagree with your point on the Dark Side, in that I meant it took a part of him away, colloquially. Like he was described as the best of the best, a hero, a great friend. I don't know why you think the Dark Side "takes nothing away" from someone, each person who falls seems to lose some aspect of themselves.
>The story of Anakin's fall and redemption is the story of the Star Wars, both prequels and original
I don't dispute that, I'm just not a fan of the subtle retconning the prequels did. We missed out on SEEING the noble warrior fall from grace.

Instead we got a crying teenager who becomes a school shooter.

>>82282587
>You also have to take into consideration that the council never trusted him and really, embarassed him by not making him master
I think that is part of how he botched the writing. Anakin needs to not be an outcast, he needs to be idealistic and good natured, well-liked by most.

On a side note though I just rewatched some clips from TPM and the lightsaber fight is actually pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHqdESArkqU

I can get the whole "stupid choreography" argument in II and a little bit of III since some of the fights are pretty noticeable but TPM is on point though and high paced like these guys know what they're doing, and I think it makes perfect sense since this is supposed to be the jedi and sith at their peak with non stop back to back training for generation where as in the OT it's an old man, an old man/robot, and a kid who probably had to teach himself how to use the weapon. Even the set design in this is great too and would argue that it's the last movie to look like star wars.

I just wanted to pause and say how I'm glad there is an actual discussion here.

>>82282651
>I was emphasizing and I would disagree with your point on the Dark Side, in that I meant it took a part of him away, colloquially. Like he was described as the best of the best, a hero, a great friend. I don't know why you think the Dark Side "takes nothing away" from someone, each person who falls seems to lose some aspect of themselves.
But there's a difference between actually joining and forced to join. I'll agree that if Anakin was forced to become Sidious's apprentice, then he would loose his dignity and credibility. But because Anakin elected to join because he can't loose Padme, it took nothing from him. It was his choice; his fault. He chose to join Sidious, slaughter Jedi, and later choke Padme, leading to her death. The dark side didn't kill Padme, Anakin killed her. Sidious showed him a pathway, but didn't cause him to do his evil deeds.

At the end of the day, Anakin, as Vader, made himself to a fallen hero with no one to love and no one to go to, but until the arrival of Luke.

>I don't dispute that, I'm just not a fan of the subtle retconning the prequels did. We missed out on SEEING the noble warrior fall from grace. Instead we got a crying teenager who becomes a school shooter.
Then you need to create a whole new character because clearly Anakin isn't a noble warrior. He's a former slave with attention issues and reckless impulses. If you want a noble hero, with a naive and positive outlook on life, turn to Luke.

>>82282943
>attention issues
I meant attachment issues*

It'd be GOAT it if had a better script because the visuals and performances are there, but sadly it has the script it has. Still love McGregor in it though.

>>82282728
This is my favorite lightsaber fight of the entire series.

>>82283035
Kill yourself.

>>82282728
This 2bh. I love the fact that we got to see well trained Jedi in their prime vs a Sith Lord. It's exactly what should happen. Elegant executed lightsaber styles. The originals showed a crippled Sith Lord, aged Jedi, and a Jedi in training, so it makes sense for them to have crude fighting styles compared to the prequel fights. If the prequels had what the originals had, it wouldn't have worked.

>>82282943
>If you want a noble hero, with a naive and positive outlook on life, turn to Luke.
Lol therein lies the issue, Anakin is not written the correct way to make anything from the OT make sense.

>>82283035
Back to /pol/ with you

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all of the prequels are terrible. ROTS is the exact same shitty film as AOTC only Darth Vader is in it so retards love it.

>>82283020
My favorite is the end duel in Return. I still get mad feels qhen Luke goes angry and those gutteral and ominous chants of the soundtrack kick in.

>>82283122
>Lol therein lies the issue, Anakin is not written the correct way to make anything from the OT make sense.
But how's it an issue? And what is this "correct" way? You mean your way? If that's the case, then I'm sorry, I disagree.

And that also goes against the prequel-original saga story of Anakin's fall and redemption. If Anakin had been the noble, wise hero, he would've accepted the fact that Padme is dying and there's nothing he can do. and I bet you that he wouldn't have slaughtered those Tusken Raiders.

The Jedi wouldn't have been near extinct; Sidious would've failed because he didn't have his trump card (Anakin), and thus he can't properly execute Order 66; and Anakin would've taken care of both Luke and Leia.

You've just changed the course of the story because you wanted a noble, heroic Anakin m8

>>82283210
>ROTS is the exact same shitty film as AOTC
Nah. ROTS is way more fast paced.
Whether you wanna say it's better or worse for that is up for debate, but it's definitely more fast paced.

>>82283098
>crude fighting styles
that's a perfect description honestly and it's great for where the setting is and who the characters are. Just as the prequel fighting styles were. The PT had many flaws but I don't get why people rip on the combat.

>>82283233
>You mean your way?
I mean how George intended to write him, way before the prequel scripts were even a thought. He had Anakin mapped out as exactly what I described. Thematically, he is not the same character in the prequels...he just isn't.

>>82283233
>And that also goes against the prequel-original saga story of Anakin's fall and redemption. If Anakin had been the noble, wise hero, he would've accepted the fact that Padme is dying and there's nothing he can do
You are missing my point, I am saying that how the prequels retroactively change Anakin was a shitty character modification, you are reverse engineering his character traits to fit into the OT, I'm not.

>>82283292
>I mean how George intended to write him, way before the prequel scripts were even a thought. He had Anakin mapped out as exactly what I described. Thematically, he is not the same character in the prequels...he just isn't.
Way way back during the initial writing process of Star Wars in 1973, the original character of what would later become Anakin was a wise, mature hero, but like all writing processes, Lucas's thoughts evolved. I remember an audio commentary from Lucas, in which he perfectly described the tragic fall of Anakin. He lost everything, has no one to go to, all because he was a selfish man who couldn't let go.

>>82283233
>You've just changed the course of the story because you wanted a noble, heroic Anakin
Right....that's literally what I am saying. You act like these certain steps in the prequels had to happen for his fall to make sense, you are working backwards though.

I hated III just as much as the other prequels.

>>82283389
>the original character of what would later become Anakin was a wise, mature hero
Right, and the entire OT is written with this in mind.

>>82283347
>You are missing my point, I am saying that how the prequels retroactively change Anakin was a shitty character modification, you are reverse engineering his character traits to fit into the OT, I'm not.
But he wasn't. He was always written in as a tragic fallen hero, who was scarred from a battle on a volcanic planet. It's been that way since post 1977, when Lucas was considering the future of the trilogy and the eventual meeting between Luke and Vader, a major turning point in both characters

>>82283389
>>82283440
I don't think this really matters since clone wars fixes this

>>82283214
That's my second favorite, actually, just behind this one.

The pacing is something that's done well in both of them. The force fields in TPM pause the action, giving everyone a break (including the viewer) and you get to see how each Jedi spends that time in their own way. Too bad the rest of TPM is garbage.

Similarly in ROTJ when Luke jumps on the catwalk, and he's hiding from Vader, gives similar pauses in the action. That duel is more than just a lightsaber duel and they caught that really well.

>>82283401
>Right....that's literally what I am saying. You act like these certain steps in the prequels had to happen for his fall to make sense, you are working backwards though.
>Fall
>has no one; no hope
>Until Luke shows up.
>Now Vader has hope; decides to pursue him
>The two meet and eventually Luke sways him because Vader cannot let Luke die because he will ONCE AGAIN loose someone he loves

I'm not working backwards. I'm working with what's given to me. It make sense.

>>82283459
>you can't be a tragic hero and a noble hero at different times
I don't see why you keep making this point.

>>82283498
>Now Vader has hope; decides to pursue him
He didn't know Luke was his kid until Empire.

>>82283504
>I don't see why you keep making this point.
Because you can't. Choose one or the other. You can't have both ways. And for the character of Anakin, he is a tragic hero, not a Luke Skywalker.

>>82283544
Given the crawl, I doubt it. He pursued Luke restlessly because Luke is his gateway to hope and sanity, something he lost in ROTS.

>>82283548
I feel like you have never read classical literature on the fallen hero. They most certainly are noble and good natured before their fall. The tragic hero does not start tragic. Macbeth, Hamlet...they don't start the story as fallen people.

>>82283548
>you can't have it both ways
Anon, it's called an arc...

>>82283603
>They most certainly are noble and good natured before their fall.
Ah, but see that's what the public eye thinks. But to Anakin himself, behind the scenes, he doesn't see himself to be noble and good natured. He realizes he has faults and issues he has to deal with but can't force himself to, i.e, his attachment issues, and he knows he cannot allow another person he loves to die.

>>82283577
It is literally approved canon that Vader didn't know who he was until Empire.

>>82283638
Except Anakin was never a noble hero in the prequels , so what arc are you speaking of?

>>82283663
Ok? So? Thematically speaking, a tragic hero does not start out, in the narrative, as tragic.

>>82283676
It's also literally a contradiction, given the crawl says he knows, whereas the Palpatine scene suggests he doesn't...

>>82283696
Oh boy, I'm talking about how tragic hero arcs work in general.

>>82283741
What in the fuck are you even talking about?

>>82283752
Great, but how does it fit into our discussion of Anakin? In the prequels, he was never a noble hero. His only 'arc' was his aging from 9 to ~ 20. And in that time span, he was always emotional and had pessimistic views.

>>82283708
I wouldn't disagree, considering freed Anakin couldn't take his mom with him, thus establishing his tragic downfall later in life.

>>82283783
>What in the fuck are you even talking about?
Did you even watch Empire?

>>82283823
>In the prequels, he was never a noble hero
Exactly my nigga.

>>82283823
>wouldn't
would*

>>82283863
Did you? He finds out who Luke is when Palpatine tells him Luke's name. Before that he had no clue, he never met Luke literally at all in 4.

>>82283921
>Did you? He finds out who Luke is when Palpatine tells him Luke's name. Before that he had no clue, he never met Luke literally at all in 4.
>Did you?
Yes, I did. And I clearly explained it here >>82283741 but you seem to have forgotten the crawl, which clearly suggests that Vader knew who Luke was, and thus had to pursue him, otherwise his pursuit and later "No, I am your father" wouldn't make any sense. Lucas's change - making Palpatine say he's the offspring of Anakin - puts a knife into the storyline, sadly.

>>82281872
>it's not shit taste to hate the prequels
Given the praise of the Disney shit, the prequels were GOAT. If you hate the prequels and like the Disney crap, you have objectively shit taste.

>>82283980
Original line:
"We have an enemy: Luke Skywalker"
"I know, master"

Post 2004:
"...the boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker"
"How is that possible"
"Nigga, did you even read the crawl? I think you know."

>>82282290
>Sidious couldn't sway him to his side
He might have been able to if he used something he actually cared about or if Luke even had something he truly cared about like Anakin did.

>>82283980
Again no, the crawl does not suggest he knows. Only thing he knows is that he blew up the Death Star. I want you to copy and paste then title crawl here and show me where you autistically keep getting that. Vader only had a hunch about his kids, until Palpatine.

I'm literally lore correct, bud.

>>82283988
TFA and Rogue One are objectively better than the prequels and honestly, only contrarians and retards with the most pleb taste imaginablr defend the prequels.

I was 14 once too, anon.

>>82284070
>He might have been able to if he used something he actually cared about or if Luke even had something he truly cared about like Anakin did.
But Vader had already tried that by saying if he wouldn't turn, the perhaps Leia will. I don't think Sidious could've used a personal way to sway Luke, since Yoda and Obi-Wan's teachings, and his later own retarded mistakes (dueling Vader in Empire), really matured him to the point of him being able to stand against the dark side. I think the point of Luke's character is to be the perfect opposite of what Anakin was, so I don't think he had an attachment issue or a significant flaw that makes him vulnerable

>>82283988
>still doubling down on "you hate shit taste if you hate the prequels"
Are you like, farming for (you)s, reddit?

>>82284135
>Again no, the crawl does not suggest he knows.
What the fuck? He's obsessed and wants to find Luke. In the original 1980 and 1997 version, he even said HE KNOWS he's Luke Skywalker. Come on man! He knew! Don't be retarded for the sake of trying to be righteous.

>>82284270
But he didn't. Heard about some faggot named Luke, Palpatine confirmed his suspisions. I honestly have no clue why you keep bringing the crawl up.

>>82283480
It fixes nothing. It only contradicts Lucas's true intentions, meaning Vader had no one after Padme's death, until Luke. With Ahsoka out and about, Vader had hope because he cared for her... and oddly accepted her departure which makes no fucking sense because the real Anakin wouldn't allow her to go.

>>82284298
*suspicions

>>82284298
Palpatine said Luke Skywalker.

Luke Skywalker.

To which Vader replied: "I know."

I don't think Vader is some senile fuck who suddenly forgot his last name.

>>82284270
>He's obsessed and wants to find Luke
Because he knows the force is strong with him, has some moderate suspicions and wants to get the fucker who blew up their super weapon. This isn't hard.

>>82284298
>I honestly have no clue why you keep bringing the crawl up.

It is a dark time for the
Rebellion. Although the Death
Star has been destroyed,
Imperial troops have driven the
Rebel forces from their hidden
base and pursued them across
the galaxy.

Evading the dreaded Imperial
Starfleet, a group of freedom
fighters led by Luke Skywalker
has established a new secret
base on the remote ice world
of Hoth.

The evil lord Darth Vader,
obsessed with finding young
Skywalker, has dispatched
thousands of remote probes into
the far reaches of space....

>>82284404
>Because he knows the force is strong with him, has some moderate suspicions and wants to get the fucker who blew up their super weapon. This isn't hard.
No, because Vader knows that Luke is his son.

You're making it hard for yourself dude

>>82284349
I'm just going to link you the scene.

https://youtu.be/JaBlw1gNWdg

Please stop being dumb. It's clear Vader didn't know.

>>82284507
>>82284466
>>82284349
See
>>82284516

Fucking Christ, stop.

>>82281097
>>General Grievous
And your post started out so well.

Also, in my experience those who defend the prequels are exactly the same 1990-onwards born fucks who love the MCU and DCEU. These people have no particular love for any fandom, they just eat up anything with a familiar brand name.

I don't know a single person who loves Marvel movies who doesn't also love the prequels.

>>82284466
NONE OF THIS MEANS VADER CAN READ THE FUCKING TITLE CRAWL AND SEE HIS NAME YOU DENSE FAGGOT.

I just don't get why people like RotS so much.

I've tried watching it a handful of times and it's just so... bloated.

Like, Lucas had to jam as much story and SFX into the movie to tie up all the loose-ends. It comes off as hurried.

And the saber fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan takes far too long and it's almost hilarious how bad it looks.

>>82284404
Furthermore, allow me to explain, in plain English, the plot of Empire:

>Since Vader knows that Luke, the man who blew up the Death Star, is his son, he decides to send probe droids throughout the galaxy, hoping to find his son, who is part of the Rebellion. Once found, Vader locates the Falcon, the ship that knocked him out of the Death Star battle. Knowing that the pilot of the Falcon is friends with Luke's, he decides to restlessly pursue the Falcon, while Luke goes off to train with Yoda. Once Vader, with the help of Boba, tracks the Falcon to Cloud City, ader gets his revenge on Han by freezing him in carbonite and make his and Leia's lives a living hell. By doing this, he knows that Luke, via the Force, can feel their pain and struggle, making him go to Cloud City. After taking the gr8 b8 m8, Luke is confronted by Vader. Knowing Vader killed Obi-Wan, Luke feels the need to fight him, but fucking fails. Vader reveals that he is his father and, because he is strong, wants Luke to join him, promising to complete Yoda's training for him. Instead, Luke decides to commit suicide, but fails at that. He's later rescued and all seems lost.

It's not rocket science dude. Vader knew what the fuck he was doing

>>82284720
>It's not rocket science dude. Vader knew what the fuck he was doing
See
>>82284516
>VADER ASKS HOW
>VADER ASKS HOW
>VADER ASKS HOW
>VADER ASKS HOW
holy shit, is this bait now?

>>82284720
>Since Vader knows that Luke, the man who blew up the Death Star, is his son
Here you go, again:
>>82284516


No.

>>82284785
And I said >>82283980 here that Lucas fucked it up.

The original movie didn't have this issue that you're so mindlessly attached to.

>>82284845
BECAUSE THIS SCENE IS CANON YOU OBTUSE PIECE OF SHIT!

>>82284819
See >>82284845

Now quit being a retard

>>82284867
My point, which you keep fucking ignoring, is that the original movie didn't have that problem.

Meaning the story, as true as it could be, without the Lucas error, meant that Vader KNEW that Luke was his son, and had to pursue him. The emotional weight of the story reached its climax when Vader said "No, I am your father" BECAUSE HE KNEW!!!

Not because Palpatine told him! That would lessen the impact!

>>82284876
Here is the original scene
https://youtu.be/ZUOAbT6OATU

It's no longer canon, but really only shows to serve that his suspicions would be 100 percent confirmed. But it doesn't fucking matter, as the scene is retconned.

You are absolutely frustrating beyond belief and I believe you may be actually autistic. The debate is of the CANON, and in that official canon, Vader does not know Luke is his son until this scene, posted here:
>>82284516

Now please kill yourself.

>>82284958
It doesn't imply that he absolutely knew who Luke was at all! You keep being an aspie and pretending it does. Moreover, it doesn't even fucking matter, as it was retconned.

Plesse, neck yourself now. SW fandom is already autistic as shit. "Hurr durrr it's an error if I don't like it", fuck right outta here.